Gay Marvel Marriages??

[MakeshiftHero]

The gay marvel thread and the gay pride month got me to thinking, with all the conflict and commotion about gay marriages in the real world, what do you think about gay and lesbian marriages in the MU? Who would be the first to get married or get a "partnership". Who would be against it. Would the Avengers, Defenders, Thunderbolts, X-Men, S.H.I.E.L.D. or Nova Corps. recognize it as a legal marriage while those characters were in their group? Who do you think would come out because of the ability to marry?

I'd say that Phyla-vell and Moondragon would come back to earth and be the first. And when they're a bit older Hulkling and Wiccan would tie the not some time down the line.

What do yall think?

[DaeJi]

I doubt Quasar and Moondragon would ever come to Earth for extended periods of time. They belong in space, where I don't think being gay is as big an issue as it is on Earth. I can see them getting married (a long ways down the road) on some distance world, surrounded by friends and sorta friends.

[Expletive Deleted]

The Nova Corps, being at this point one guy and his talking costume, probably wouldn't care all that much.

[Sam T.]

This will not happen for a long time yet....

[DaeJi]

True. Heck, marriages period are rare in superhero comics. I mean really, when was the last time a hero got married and didn't retire to do so?

[Expletive Deleted]

I mean really, when was the last time a hero got married and didn't retire to do so?Black Panther and Storm, last year.

But your point is well taken. Superhero marriages are the exception, not the rule.

[Michael P]

Would the Avengers, Defenders, Thunderbolts, X-Men, S.H.I.E.L.D. or Nova Corps. recognize it as a legal marriage while those characters were in their group?

I was unaware that vigilante groups, extraterrestrial police forces, and nebulously-defined pseudo-military organizations had any legal say in whether two people are married or not.

[Expletive Deleted]

... nebulously-defined pseudo-military organizations had any legal say in whether two people are married or not.I'm sure it's in the Patriot . . . uh, I mean Superhero Registration Act, somewhere.

[Lord_Archive]

They might have one in the Omega Flight line seeing as how gay marriages are legal up there in Canada, eh?

Maybe Beta Ray Bill and US Agent?

[Bryson the Red]

Black Panther and Storm, last year.

But your point is well taken. Superhero marriages are the exception, not the rule.

And Luke Cage not long before that.

[DaeJi]

Damn, forgot able Black Panther and Storm. Still, it's been years since that a superhero has married and stayed active. And I don't think Luke ever married Jess.

[Karthak]

Gay marriage in an american comic? Evangelical christian maniacs would be storming the Marvel headquarters with pitchforks.

[RonnieThunderbolts]

Damn, forgot able Black Panther and Storm. Still, it's been years since that a superhero has married and stayed active. And I don't think Luke ever married Jess.

What? Storm and Black Panther are married, and active in three titles (Black Panther, Fantastic Four, and Uncanny X-Men) and Luke and Jessica were married in the New Avengers Annual a couple years ago. You're wrong, there are two very recent examples of heroes marrying and staying active, and are in fact the most prominent Marvel weddings as of late. All of the recent marriages remain active in superheroics, and though its been years, they mostly do. The only other Marvel marriages I can think of off the top of my head ALSO stay active, like Reed and Sue, Scott and Jean for their marriage were nearly always active, although they attempted to retire, Vindicator and Guardian of Alpha Flight toyed with retirement but always came back to active duty, and Hawkeye and Mockingbird were active asa couple until she died. Where is the glut of retired superhero marriages? As far as I can tell, it doesn't exist.

[DaeJi]

What? Storm and Black Panther are married, and active in three titles (Black Panther, Fantastic Four, and Uncanny X-Men) and Luke and Jessica were married in the New Avengers Annual a couple years ago. You're wrong, there are two very recent examples of heroes marrying and staying active, and are in fact the most prominent Marvel weddings as of late. All of the recent marriages remain active in superheroics, and though its been years, they mostly do. The only other Marvel marriages I can think of off the top of my head ALSO stay active, like Reed and Sue, Scott and Jean for their marriage were nearly always active, although they attempted to retire, Vindicator and Guardian of Alpha Flight toyed with retirement but always came back to active duty, and Hawkeye and Mockingbird were active asa couple until she died. Where is the glut of retired superhero marriages? As far as I can tell, it doesn't exist.

Superheroes marrying and staying active isn't the rule. Yes, there are times it has happened, and then there are more times it hasn't. Hell, most superheroes don't get married and when they do it doesn't late. And are Luke and Jess really married? Anyway, there are a lot of lasting marriages out there, but thats neither here nor there (I wish I knew what that meant). The topic of discussion is gay marriages; can they work? I think as far as Phyla and Heather go, they can since they aren't Earth-bound. As for the Earth-based heroes, I don't know. Maybe there can be one in Omega Flight.

[RonnieThunderbolts]

Superheroes marrying and staying active isn't the rule. Yes, there are times it has happened, and then there are more times it hasn't. Hell, most superheroes don't get married and when they do it doesn't late. And are Luke and Jess really married? Anyway, there are a lot of lasting marriages out there, but thats neither here nor there (I wish I knew what that meant). The topic of discussion is gay marriages; can they work? I think as far as Phyla and Heather go, they can since they aren't Earth-bound. As for the Earth-based heroes, I don't know. Maybe there can be one in Omega Flight.

My point was, in Marvel comics that "more times it hasn't" isn't necessarily true. I really don't think thats the case, and thats why I listed examples showing that it isn't the case. Where are the other retired superhero couples? Thats all I meant, to make the claim, one would think there would be support behind it.

As for Luke and Jessica, yes, it was a whole comic setup around their marriage, they got married, but it was after the baby was born.

As for gay marriages, I don't see why not. I say the Destroyer Roger Aubrey and his boyfriend Nigel Clowes are the first to get married, its legal in the UK and they've been together for years. They could be a combination of a retired/active married couple, with Nigel already a retired V-Battalion agent and Roger the current head of the organization.

[ddqfpluskick]

Never going to happen......

Sorry, would love to see it but gay and lesbian characters will......

1) Survive (North Star)
2) Stay Sane (North Star)
3) Get into a relationship (Karma)
4) Staying in a relationship (Mystique/Destiney)
5) Actually having a wedding (Lucy in the Sky/Xavin)

Long term relationships = Stagnation in the eyes of editors. So most will not even green light heterosexual relationships. In other words never will happen.

[Mikl C]

Gays shouldn't be ALLOWED to get married!
*spits*

[Cyprusg]

I'm 100% FOR gay marriage, but it wouldn't do much for me in a comic book. Being a heterosexual male I just can't relate, so it's not something that interests me. But hey, if they do it for the sake of the story and not simply for making the news then I'm all for it.

[MakeshiftHero]

I'm 100% FOR gay marriage, but it wouldn't do much for me in a comic book. Being a heterosexual male I just can't relate, so it's not something that interests me. But hey, if they do it for the sake of the story and not simply for making the news then I'm all for it.

Yeah same here, I'm a straight male but I just thought it would be an interesting question, plus I was bored when I made the thread.

But like you said if its for the story then I wouldn't mind. I just wouldn't want characters to come out of no where and say hey I'm gay and I'm going to marry this guy. Marvel already has enough gay and les characters. They should focus more on minorities or other social groups beside the gay community.

[StoneGold]

The problem with trying to do it at this point is getting it done without feeling like it is pandering. Granted, most of the time, weddings in general feel a bit like that. But it doesn't help that your most prominent homosexual couples in the MU are underage, alien, or both.


And honestly, does anyone really see Moondragon of all people to be a one-woman gal? Really, I'm not even sure she's all the way gay. Or at least, if there was some dude whose genetic material she figured she could use to give birth to some new cosmic life form, she'd bang him. Moonie's kind of messed up that way.

[Karthak]

Gays shouldn't be ALLOWED to get married!
*spits*

I do hope you're joking...

[Lord_Archive]

Gays shouldn't be ALLOWED to get married!
*spits*

Religious People shouldn't be ALLOWED to breed!
*hawks a loogey*

[Gargus]

Im not racist and I dont hate gay folks but I just dont see why it should even be a issue or even brought up at all.

1) Comics arent real, do we really have to inject our real life issues and personal dealings into them? Do I care if a character is straight or gay? No because it doesnt matter if they are or not. I dont read comics for them to be lifelike or politically correct. Its a comic for gods sake!

2) Do gays deserve special treatment? No. Gays, blacks, women or whatever all want equal treatment. But also want holidays and special recognition for being what they are? Where is my special day for being "caucasian, american born, irish heritage, heterosexual, male" day? Why dooesnt my demographic get special recognition in comic books? If they want equal treatment they dont deserve what they ask for, they should be equal and not special.

I dont care if they have gay characters, but bringing special attention to it and making a big deal of it is baffling. The only people who I dont like that are gay without personally getting to know them are the ones who have to bring attention to themsevles and make sure you know they are gay and do stupid stuff like create this thread. Or worse yet, the ones who arent gay but yet stand up for them as if they were.

Its fiction people and I like it that way. I dont need the avengers to becomes the real world or another reality show.

I dont recall people making a big deal about straight characters. No one mentions how well the relationship between vision and scarlet witch was handled or whatnot.

[DaeJi]

Im not racist and I dont hate gay folks but I just dont see why it should even be a issue or even brought up at all.

Ooooh, you did the "I'm not _____ but" opener. Never a good way to start off any kind of arguement.

1) Comics arent real, do we really have to inject our real life issues and personal dealings into them? Do I care if a character is straight or gay? No because it doesnt matter if they are or not. I dont read comics for them to be lifelike or politically correct. Its a comic for gods sake!

Yes, we need to inject real life issues into comics. Why? Because then we are able to connect with the characters. People like to see themselves, or an aspect of themselves, or be able to identify with their characters. Doing so makes us care for them, root for them in a fight, and want to know what becomes of them. Reading a comic Joe Perfect where everything is hunky doory would get boring. Fast.

2) Do gays deserve special treatment? No. Gays, blacks, women or whatever all want equal treatment. But also want holidays and special recognition for being what they are? Where is my special day for being "caucasian, american born, irish heritage, heterosexual, male" day? Why dooesnt my demographic get special recognition in comic books? If they want equal treatment they dont deserve what they ask for, they should be equal and not special.

You have a point, if presented poorly. People who want equal treatment shouldn't also demand special treatment. BUt they do, and this is reflected in comics, so it becomes a deal. And it's not even that big a deal; most gay characters or non-white characters or female characters do not beat you over the head about it. Notice I said most, because some do. Anyway, for most it's just another part, and they don't have issues focused on it or anything, they just go about their day.

I dont care if they have gay characters, but bringing special attention to it and making a big deal of it is baffling. The only people who I dont like that are gay without personally getting to know them are the ones who have to bring attention to themsevles and make sure you know they are gay and do stupid stuff like create this thread. Or worse yet, the ones who arent gay but yet stand up for them as if they were.

The OP made the tread because he was bored. Why would anyone make a tread about gay marriage? Isn't it no big deal? Well, in today's world it is a big deal, and all over the world (not everywhere, but mostwhere) gay couples are denied the same rights as straight couples, one of which is to marry. So yeah, a gay wedding would be a big deal. And the reason straight people stand up for gay people (I'm in one of those groups) is because they don't like to see others denied things based on something they can't help.

Its fiction people and I like it that way. I dont need the avengers to becomes the real world or another reality show.

I dont recall people making a big deal about straight characters. No one mentions how well the relationship between vision and scarlet witch was handled or whatnot.

No one wants comics to be like reality t.v. But we do want to be able to become emotionly attacted to them, and we want to find heroes we can relate to for any reason. And people do make a deal out of straight couples, it's just that straight couples have married (to varying degrees of success) while we haven't had a long-term gay couple involving superheroes.

And the Vision was a robot. I can't even fathom what that would make the Scarlet Witch (crazy?).

And honestly, does anyone really see Moondragon of all people to be a one-woman gal? Really, I'm not even sure she's all the way gay. Or at least, if there was some dude whose genetic material she figured she could use to give birth to some new cosmic life form, she'd bang him. Moonie's kind of messed up that way.

I think Moonie is starting to clean up, and is really commited to Quasar at this time. But yeah, I don't see those two marrying for years at least.

[Brandon McKinnis]

Im not racist and I dont hate gay folks but I just dont see why it should even be a issue or even brought up at all.

I think it's a legitimate question, especially since marvel claims it's trying to deal with more real world issues.

1) Comics arent real, do we really have to inject our real life issues and personal dealings into them? Do I care if a character is straight or gay? No because it doesnt matter if they are or not. I dont read comics for them to be lifelike or politically correct. Its a comic for gods sake!

Every character shouldn't be whitebread and and straight, that's boring and exclusive. I identify much more closely with Luke Cage or Falcon, so why shouldn't gays have characters they can access more easily. There's no reason writers can't develop well rounded "queer" (Is this really the accepted term now?) characters.

2) Do gays deserve special treatment? No. Gays, blacks, women or whatever all want equal treatment. But also want holidays and special recognition for being what they are? Where is my special day for being "caucasian, american born, irish heritage, heterosexual, male" day? Why dooesnt my demographic get special recognition in comic books? If they want equal treatment they dont deserve what they ask for, they should be equal and not special. What holiday or special recognition? Are you talking about Black history Month or MLK day? I'm fairly certain those we're implemented by whites. And why shouldn't there be a holiday to celebrate black, hispanic, asiatic, etc leaders? As for special holidays: I'm not Irish but every year saint patty's day rolls around, not christian but here comes christmas every december. How about Presidents Day! My family arrived by boat in the early 1800s, against their will, White America seems to not grasp the fact there really is no shared American history prior to the 13th, 14th amendments. "The founding fathers", surely aren't my founding fathers try W.E.B, BTW, Johnson, Douglass. I see a lot of white resentment for "special privilege" that fundamentally fails to recognize white privilege.

I dont care if they have gay characters, but bringing special attention to it and making a big deal of it is baffling. The only people who I dont like that are gay without personally getting to know them are the ones who have to bring attention to themsevles and make sure you know they are gay and do stupid stuff like create this thread. Or worse yet, the ones who arent gay but yet stand up for them as if they were. WHy shouldn't people stand up for gays? Or announce themselves to be so? Because it offends your delicate sensibilities? Aren't you missing 700 club right now?

Its fiction people and I like it that way. I dont need the avengers to becomes the real world or another reality show.
No, but you want comics to reflect only you, while demonizing people for wanting a book to reflect them, it's not special treatment to want to see yourself in a book, everyone should be able to do that.

I dont recall people making a big deal about straight characters. No one mentions how well the relationship between vision and scarlet witch was handled or whatnot. I believe several times in this discussion Cage/Jones and Storm/BP we're brought up, but i'm sure that's "special recognition", so how about the Parker/Watson or Richards/S.Storm which are touted for there long history. Seems you haven't been playing close attention to your own books.

[ddqfpluskick]

Yeah I know where in a Marvel forum but......

So......nothing never happened on Paradise Island

1954 seduction of the innocent......ring a bell

Fact is comics have always been used to vent polotical issues

X-men had half a dozen political issue diguised as under colorful costumes and mutant powers.


Where is my special day for being "(1)caucasian, (2)american born, (3)irish heritage, (4)heterosexual, male" day?

1) Thanksgiving cause their were plenty of diversity on the Mayflower
2) Fourth of July cause......I called England and they got mad when I invited them
3) March 17th mut have been a lost weekend for ya
4) Father's day.......since they keep passinf law preventing gay men from adoptiona and surrogates.


"I dont care if they have gay characters, but bringing special attention to it and making a big deal of it is baffling. The only people who I dont like that are gay without personally getting to know them are the ones who have to bring attention to themsevles and make sure you know they are gay and do stupid stuff like create this thread. Or worse yet, the ones who arent gay but yet stand up for them as if they were."

I kind of see the logic in this one. I don't think you should define one attirubute per character I mean take Karolina Dean......there is more to her than being the out of the closest lesbian. She's the heart of the team. She had confidence issue from issue one but has evolved to a person who stand up for herself. She's had an alien heritage to deal with and serious crush issue. Trust I've heard the Oh my god I've falling for my best friend more than once from BIsexuals, Lesbians, and homosexuals. So yeah I could see you point. I mean I've often joked there should be a mutant character who has issues with being a mutant first then a person. Such as "My name is Bob who is a mutant not Bob the mutant."

[Deus ex Chris]

Im not racist and I dont hate gay folks but I just dont see why it should even be a issue or even brought up at all.

1) Comics arent real, do we really have to inject our real life issues and personal dealings into them? Do I care if a character is straight or gay? No because it doesnt matter if they are or not. I dont read comics for them to be lifelike or politically correct. Its a comic for gods sake!

2) Do gays deserve special treatment? No. Gays, blacks, women or whatever all want equal treatment. But also want holidays and special recognition for being what they are? Where is my special day for being "caucasian, american born, irish heritage, heterosexual, male" day? Why dooesnt my demographic get special recognition in comic books? If they want equal treatment they dont deserve what they ask for, they should be equal and not special.

I dont care if they have gay characters, but bringing special attention to it and making a big deal of it is baffling. The only people who I dont like that are gay without personally getting to know them are the ones who have to bring attention to themsevles and make sure you know they are gay and do stupid stuff like create this thread. Or worse yet, the ones who arent gay but yet stand up for them as if they were.

Its fiction people and I like it that way. I dont need the avengers to becomes the real world or another reality show.

I dont recall people making a big deal about straight characters. No one mentions how well the relationship between vision and scarlet witch was handled or whatnot.

So how many threads did you post this in? Well, you got a lovely reply in one of them, and you didn't even respond to it. Of course, something tells me you're more interested in being an ignorant troll than an open-mined human being. I'll just repost that response in case I'm wrong, though.
Why is it I always feel a sense of deep foreboding whenever someone includes the preamble 'I'm not sexist/racist /homophobic BUT...' before launching into their post? It never ends well.

Gargus, by your own admission you’re a white, heterosexual male, of COURSE you don’t need a special day or special treatment because much of American history has, and continues to be, about YOU. You have traditionally been considered the ‘norm’ by which all else is measured, it’s everyone else that, to varying degrees, is the ‘other.’ Blacks, homosexuals and other minorities face certain challenges you do not and are still struggling for equal and fair treatment in the media as well as day to day life. Someone’s sexuality should not matter, you’re right, but it DOES because some people continue to make it an issue and feel that homosexuals are somehow ‘lesser’ and until that view goes away a character’s sexuality is going to continue to be a big deal because it’s controversial by its very nature.

Many comic writers do have a social conscience and feel that homosexuals should be represented positively in their field, and I can’t imagine why anyone would fault them for that. It’s certainly preferable to them sticking their fingers in their ears and pretending certain minorities don’t exist.

I don’t think a character’s sexuality should be their defining characteristic, but one facet of who they are.

[StoneGold]

Where is my special day for being "caucasian, american born, irish heritage, heterosexual, male" day?

Forget about March 17?

[Red Orion]

Considering how bigoted, hypocritical and hateful the MU public is I doubt gay marriage would ever be legal on Marvel Earth.

[DaeJi]

Yay for Marvel space!

[Brandon McKinnis]

Considering how bigoted, hypocritical and hateful the MU public is I doubt gay marriage would ever be legal on Marvel Earth.

Actually you're probably right.

[Red Orion]

Yay for Marvel space!

What makes you think space is any better? Both the Shi'Ar and the Kree along with any number of other planets have also been shown to be extremely bigoted. What makes you think any of them would allow gay marriage?

[Rolltideguy77]

Ehh I am gay and I am obviously pro gay marriage but I dont think Marvel should do it just to do it. If it made sense then fine. If Wiccan and Hulkling want to get married after a long-established history of being together it makes sense and I would be fine with it. As for Moondragon and Phylla (Quasar) I would think they are "too cosmic" to care what anyone would think on Earth necessarily.

[DaeJi]

What makes you think space is any better? Both the Shi'Ar and the Kree along with any number of other planets have also been shown to be extremely bigoted. What makes you think any of them would allow gay marriage?

No reason, though unlike Earth there's really no reason to assume that they are against it. Besides, there are so many planets within those empires with so many different cultures, it has to be legal on a few of them.

[Rolltideguy77]

On other races such as Skrulls is sexual preference a big deal? If you can change your gender at will do you lean one way or the other or do you just like who you like no matter the gender.

[DaeJi]

Other than Xavin I don't really know any Skrulls that change their gender, and even then he/she only does it when changing into human forms. Super-Skrull even had a son, so we know that they have gender. I think they would differentiate between straight and gay.

[MakeshiftHero]

Im not racist and I dont hate gay folks but I just dont see why it should even be a issue or even brought up at all..
So what do you say when it is brought up in the real world? If you weren't allowed to marry someone you love who loves you back (hypotheticaly, of course) wouldn't that make you pissed off and you'd be sure to bring up that issue?

1) Comics arent real, do we really have to inject our real life issues and personal dealings into them? Do I care if a character is straight or gay? No because it doesnt matter if they are or not. I dont read comics for them to be lifelike or politically correct. Its a comic for gods sake!
So comics aren't real, you don't care if a character is gay or straight cause it doesn't matter, and you don't read them to be lifelike. You seem to like contradicting yourself because if it's not a big deal and "its a comic for God's sake!" you sure are getting real involved in a fictional "what if" question about fictional characters.


2) Do gays deserve special treatment? No. Gays, blacks, women or whatever all want equal treatment. But also want holidays and special recognition for being what they are? Where is my special day for being "caucasian, american born, irish heritage, heterosexual, male" day? Why dooesnt my demographic get special recognition in comic books? If they want equal treatment they dont deserve what they ask for, they should be equal and not special.
Gays blacks women and other minority groups do deserve a bit of a leg up. Women still to this day make less money working the same job as a male, racisism and hate crimes still continue. People live in fear for their lives because of a way they chose to be (gay/lesbian) or something they can't control (black, asian, female) because others might kill them for enjoying who they are. Black people should be able to celebreat june teenth, if gay people wana dress up in a bunch of colors toss streamers around and have parade on floats good for them, it looks like fun. They shoudl be able to have "their own" holidays because Americans tend to steal other cultures holidays and turn them into an excuse to get the day off from work and go out party and get drunk ex: cinco de mayo, and st. patrick's day. And you being Irish I'm sure you know that the traditional Irish way of celebrating is to go to church during the day and go home have a avg. size dinner and be humble and give thanks and pray during the day. Not wear green clothes and get wasted and make yourself look like an idiot like Americans do.

If you're wondering where "your day" is keep your eyes open and dont stay in bed cause 4th of july is coming up in a couple of days and don't forget about President's day, and Thanksgiving.


I dont care if they have gay characters, but bringing special attention to it and making a big deal of it is baffling. The only people who I dont like that are gay without personally getting to know them are the ones who have to bring attention to themsevles and make sure you know they are gay and do stupid stuff like create this thread. Or worse yet, the ones who arent gay but yet stand up for them as if they were.
I'm glad you with all your infinite wisdom read the part where I said that I was bored and made this thread up just to see what others thought about the idea, ya know, cause I'm a male who does not like "the meat stick" and was curious to know what those who do think about something that is a HUGE issue America is facing. I'm not %100 pro gay marriage, I've got my reasons, but if gay people want to I don't really see why not cause they can in other countries.


Its fiction people and I like it that way. I dont need the avengers to becomes the real world or another reality show.
You are right, it IS FICTION. So why not have them make a FICTIONAL story where gay people get married seeing as how that doesn't really exist in America, there for it would still be fiction.

I dont recall people making a big deal about straight characters. No one mentions how well the relationship between vision and scarlet witch was handled or whatnot.
People talk about straight married couples all the time. There was a big talk about Black Panther and Storm getting married, and even Luke Cage and Jessica Jones getting married being an interracial couple and some people were even mad that they had her get pregnant out of marriage.

Not to mention about how "people are making a big deal" about Peter Parker and MJ being married and whats going to happen to them and should they stay together.

[ifeelasleep]

the thing about people choosing to be gay just boggles my mind... how could anyone with common sense choose to be gay in our current society -.-,

anyways i hope marvel have gay marriage, but i wish they dont make a circus out of it, because that would just take away from the aspect of gay marriage being normal...

if marvel constantly preaches about x-men being about racism, and how they constantly try to expand to a wider audience, i dont see how a little marriage that was known, but not a big deal would affect their sales... except obviously with the homophobes, then again who gives a crap about homophobes lol

[Vulgar]

Personally I'm all for gay marriage in real life and in comic books. As long as it's done right. I'd hate to see a marriage, be it gay or straight, forced in a comic for no good reason except for a political statement or writers desires.

[MakeshiftHero]

the thing about people choosing to be gay just boggles my mind... how could anyone with common sense choose to be gay in our current society -.-,

anyways i hope marvel have gay marriage, but i wish they dont make a circus out of it, because that would just take away from the aspect of gay marriage being normal...

if marvel constantly preaches about x-men being about racism, and how they constantly try to expand to a wider audience, i dont see how a little marriage that was known, but not a big deal would affect their sales... except obviously with the homophobes, then again who gives a crap about homophobes lol

It would be great IF Marvel wouldn't make a big deal and alert the media but we all know they would. There would be no stopping them. Just like when people all around the globe found out from google or yahoo that Spider-Man unmasked or that Captain America died as soon as they checked their e-mail at 8am, BEFORE READING THE BOOK. Marvel would alert the media and say "Hey, have nothing to write about? Well our next contraversal thing is going to happen in book ____ issue #___" and we'd all hear about it before we would have a chance to leave our houses. I know Marvel is a buisness first and are all about telling stories 2nd, but they owe it to their fans for at least waiting the next day to reveal what is going to happen and not being a sell out too much. It's really just disrespectful to their loyal fans, they could just wait a day and they'd still get as much hype.

[hyzmarca]

2) Do gays deserve special treatment? No. Gays, blacks, women or whatever all want equal treatment. But also want holidays and special recognition for being what they are? Where is my special day for being "caucasian, american born, irish heritage, heterosexual, male" day? Why dooesnt my demographic get special recognition in comic books? If they want equal treatment they dont deserve what they ask for, they should be equal and not special.


Its called Saint Patrick's Day. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Patrick's_Day) There's a giant parade in New York. They died the entire Chicago River green in 2005. I don't think any heterosexual Irishman can genuinely complain about not having a Day.


Personally, I think that it would be cool if YHWH/Jehova/Allah showed up during a huge well-publicized homosexual wedding and publicly confirmed that yes, he does hate fags, before being killed by Ares and Hercules, gods of the single most homoerotic culture in world history. But I think that such an event would be a bit too controversial, even for Marvel.

[Captain Mobra]

Like almost anything that pertains to choice, it's psychological. Just like asking do you prefer red-heads, blondes, or brunettes or what's your favorite season. Is it a choice? They can choose not to have gay sex or gay partners, but they can't choose what they want or like.

Moondragon and Phyla wouldn't care what Earth says, much less America.

There's no real way to base any assumptions that any other species would persecute based on sexuality since that philosophy is based in an Earth religion. Just like one alien race may persecute liars like monstrous criminals or another may persecute members of their race with red hair depending on their values and customs. It's definitely possible, but it would be silly to assume.

[bjtrdff]

Sweet... another

______gay______marvel______thread.

Wouldnt not making a big deal out of things that shouldnt be (like gay characters) be a better way to contribute to the further acceptance of homosexuality?

Oh well...

Is the month over yet?

[Albert]

Sweet... another

______gay______marvel______thread.

Wouldnt not making a big deal out of things that shouldnt be (like gay characters) be a better way to contribute to the further acceptance of homosexuality?

Oh well...

Is the month over yet?

I can't recall an instance when keeping silent has contributed to anyone's acceptance in the past. Perhaps if you were to provide an example, I might be persuaded.

[Captain Mobra]

Not to mention the fact that being gay still is a "big deal", whether anyone would like it or not.

[Brian M.]

Religious People shouldn't be ALLOWED to breed!
*hawks a loogey*

Really? It's wrong to be religious? Kinda ironic to find this statement in this thread.

As for the gay marriage, if it's a good story, I don't see why not. Look at the Storm/Black Panther wedding, that was horrible imo. Forced, happened so quick, did it really feel like it meant something? Now take X-Men #30 w/ Scott/Jean, you had 30 years of build up, of trials and pitfalls that it actually felt like a real conclusion to their relationship. Give me the years of build up, years of relationships and you can marry Howard the Duck to Captain freaking America for all I care.

[dhoffryn]

Doctor Strange and Wong.

There's obviously something more going on there.

[Deus ex Chris]

Really? It's wrong to be religious? Kinda ironic to find this statement in this thread.
I think it was a joke, Republican Boy. I'll explain what that means in X-Cres.

Can we get back on topic or have a mod shut this thread down? I don't want to have caused a huge fight over this. It was all just because of a jokingly "what if" question, I thought it would be interesting to bring up but I didn't know some people woudl take it out of hand.
You made a horribly ignorant assumption--one that has been used as an excuse to denigrate and oppress homosexuals for years. What did you expect the reaction to be?

[Black Atom]

Ehhhh....

Honestly, I can't think of something I'd want to read about less in superhero comicbooks. That's not to say you shouldn't have social/political issues show up in comics, but superheroes are best applied allegorically. I wouldn't be opposed to a writer approaching the a marriage subplot with mutants representing a gay couple, I guess, but generally, I don't need to see it.

[DaeJi]

I like marriage in comics. Romance has always been a part of comics, and is something we can all get into for one reason or another. Gay or straight, I would like to see a little more marriage, even if's it's between support characters and not heroes.

[ChildOfTheDarkholde]

Ehhhh....

Honestly, I can't think of something I'd want to read about less in superhero comicbooks. That's not to say you shouldn't have social/political issues show up in comics, but superheroes are best applied allegorically. I wouldn't be opposed to a writer approaching the a marriage subplot with mutants representing a gay couple, I guess, but generally, I don't need to see it.

What about a hetero marriage?
Do you have the same "I don't need to see it" attitude?

Just curious...

[Black Atom]

What about a hetero marriage?
Do you have the same "I don't need to see it" attitude?

Just curious...

No. I should clarify: I was talking about the real-life debate over gay marriage going in the US. This is something I don't need to see popping up in superhero books. A marriage between two gay Marvel characters I wouldn't necessarily be adverse to.

[Brian M.]

I think it was a joke, Republican Boy. I'll explain what that means in X-Cres.


You made a horribly ignorant assumption--one that has been used as an excuse to denigrate and oppress homosexuals for years. What did you expect the reaction to be?

You say Republican boy like it's a bad thing...

[Expletive Deleted]

Okay, then.

Everyone who wants to talk about gay marriage in the context of the Marvel Universe, keep on keepin' on. Everyone who wants to debate gay marriage in the real world or the biological basis for homosexuality can move on over to the Community Forum.

Thanks.

[Lord_Archive]

I think it was a joke, Republican Boy. I'll explain what that means in X-Cres.

No more of a joke than "Gays shouldn't be allowed to marry"

The nature of all life on this planet is to compete. When our ancestors ate, they had to compete with other forms of life to survive. When species evolve, they pit one form of biological life against the surrounding environment - the one more compatible with the environment survives while the other forms do not. When people grow food, build homes, or make clothing they are competing against their environmental conditions and against other people seeking the same goals for resources available. When people debate, have wars, look for employment, find recreation, they all compete in one form or another.

The notion of "god" evolved from this basic need to compete. The notion of "god" has never been more than a tool for the socially weak to use on a psychological, social, economic or metaphysical level in order to attempt to cheat in the competition of life. If a politician couldn't sell his ideals, he would say "god told me so". If a man wanted more money for preaching about some deity, they would merely sell supernatural favors in return for material things. If man wants to compete against death all he has to do is say "my belief in my god will allow me to live forever." If a man wants answers for why he exists in the first place, he just thinks to himself "Because some god said so".

All that "god" is, has been and ever will be, is a way for people to get what they want with no realistic amount of effort. Its a simplistic, irresponsible and parasitic manner of achievement and nothing more.

Then there are the ethical ramifications:

1. "Good" and "Evil" are philosophically subjective terms that are defined and redefined by whatever individual philosophy followed.
2. The great acts of abuse perpetuated by man in history were beneficial to at least one person.
3. No one can show solid evidence that the conjecture of "God exists" is anything more than religious faith.

Ergo, those who use the mythology and the double conjecture that "god wants me to" to support their beneficial acts, regardless of how minor, only succeed in paving the road for those who will use the same argument to justify their great acts of abuse.

So yes, it is very wrong to be religious within a civilized society - unless you respect people for being self-important, social parasites.

In closing, I want to thank the comicbookresources.com for giving us a forum to discuss fictional characters.

[MakeshiftHero]

No more of a joke than "Gays shouldn't be allowed to marry"

The nature of all life on this planet is to compete. When our ancestors ate, they had to compete with other forms of life to survive. When species evolve, they pit one form of biological life against the surrounding environment - the one more compatible with the environment survives while the other forms do not. When people grow food, build homes, or make clothing they are competing against their environmental conditions and against other people seeking the same goals for resources available. When people debate, have wars, look for employment, find recreation, they all compete in one form or another.

The notion of "god" evolved from this basic need to compete. The notion of "god" has never been more than a tool for the socially weak to use on a psychological, social, economic or metaphysical level in order to attempt to cheat in the competition of life. If a politician couldn't sell his ideals, he would say "god told me so". If a man wanted more money for preaching about some deity, they would merely sell supernatural favors in return for material things. If man wants to compete against death all he has to do is say "my belief in my god will allow me to live forever." If a man wants answers for why he exists in the first place, he just thinks to himself "Because some god said so".

All that "god" is, has been and ever will be, is a way for people to get what they want with no realistic amount of effort. Its a simplistic, irresponsible and parasitic manner of achievement and nothing more.

Then there are the ethical ramifications:

1. "Good" and "Evil" are philosophically subjective terms that are defined and redefined by whatever individual philosophy followed.
2. The great acts of abuse perpetuated by man in history were beneficial to at least one person.
3. No one can show solid evidence that the conjecture of "God exists" is anything more than religious faith.

Ergo, those who use the mythology and the double conjecture that "god wants me to" to support their beneficial acts, regardless of how minor, only succeed in paving the road for those who will use the same argument to justify their great acts of abuse.

So yes, it is very wrong to be religious within a civilized society - unless you respect people for being self-important, social parasites.

.....so, you're contributing to the main topic how?

[Expletive Deleted]

What did I just say?