Vargas?

[Samuraixsithlord]

Does anyone remember this villian from the X-Treme X-men run? I remember that his origins were never revealed before his "Death". I recall that the X-men believed that there was a connection between him and Cassandra Nova (Her being the pinnicle of Mental strength him being the pinnicle of Physical) or something like that. It could also be plausible that he's a rogue child of the vault

[Canemacar]

He and the Diaries should be showing up soon according to Carey.

[thronzeblast]

Does anyone remember this villian from the X-Treme X-men run? I remember that his origins were never revealed before his "Death". I recall that the X-men believed that there was a connection between him and Cassandra Nova (Her being the pinnicle of Mental strength him being the pinnicle of Physical) or something like that. It could also be plausible that he's a rogue child of the vault


Yeah i remember him guys was bad news killed phylocke and beat down beast,stabbed rougue through the heart,nearly killed gambit.They never showed at the end if rouge killed him or not guess she didnt.

[The Sword Is Drawn]

Didn't he also turn up somewhere in X-Men: The End, as an ally?

[Flâneur]

Wasn't there a suggestion by Claremont (online) at some point that Vargas had something to do with the Xavier Protocols? Hence his ability to trounce everyone soundly.
Didn't he also turn up somewhere in X-Men: The End, as an ally?

The leader of the X.S.E I think, which is interesting since I never expected to see Rogue work as his agent.

[CmX]

Wasn't there a suggestion by Claremont (online) at some point that Vargas had something to do with the Xavier Protocols? Hence his ability to trounce everyone soundly.


The leader of the X.S.E I think, which is interesting since I never expected to see Rogue work as his agent.

CC never got around to any of this so the character still a freak'n mystery even what six years later ? What a waste.

His involvement in The End made NO sense whatsoever and that could have been explained as it was a mini series of 18 issues.. and still no answers, wtf seriously now.

[The Sword Is Drawn]

CC never got around to any of this so the character still a freak'n mystery even what six years later ? What a waste.

His involvement in The End made NO sense whatsoever and that could have been explained as it was a mini series of 18 issues.. and still no answers, wtf seriously now.

I agree. It was more than a little bizarre. Was he even confirmed as a mutant? Ot like the Crimson Pirates and the like just left as a one fairly interesting, but never explained opponent.

[blinkinrogue]

maybe instead of killing him, rogue cut off his arms or something, at least no more stabbing/impaling xmen.

[DDM]

CC never got around to any of this so the character still a freak'n mystery even what six years later ? What a waste.

His involvement in The End made NO sense whatsoever and that could have been explained as it was a mini series of 18 issues.. and still no answers, wtf seriously now.

Blame the editors. Claremont was told to drop Vargas & Destiny's diaries plotline.

What were the editors thinking? I think that's the problem. They weren't thinking.

[Gene M.]

It could also be plausible that he's a rogue child of the vault
That's an idea I could get behind. Vargas was 1/3 of the reason I never made it to issue 4 of X-Treme. He seemed so generic to me as a villain. It was like "Oooooh... He's MEAN and has a SWORD and he looks like Glenn Danzig's little brother!" Lame. Having him as a Child of the Vault will give him a backstory that makes sense with what's been revealed about him so far, and hopefully will make him seem cool by association.

[The Sword Is Drawn]

He could certainly work as a child of the vault. I wonder what Carey might be considering.

[eggie]

Blame the editors. Claremont was told to drop Vargas & Destiny's diaries plotline.

What were the editors thinking? I think that's the problem. They weren't thinking.

What?!? Wasn't that the whole point of the X-Treme team to get all of Destinies diaries? OMG, the editors totally ruined a good thing and on top of that told CC to drop Vargas!! He was a totally awesome enemy because it would take a whole team of X-Men to take him down or Rogue using the powers of a whole team of X-Men! Ehat a waste...hopefully Carey brings him back as the BA he was in X-Treme and not the leader of X.S.E. he was in The End books.

[Samuraixsithlord]

He and the Diaries should be showing up soon according to Carey.

Were did you hear this from? could you provide me with a link to the rticle if it's an article.

It's also completely plausible that he's a Child of the Vault given his Spanish background and name, him being something other then a mutant or human, and is superior abilities. What is his strength level anyway? he went one on one with Rogue and she was Class 50 at least

[Jake V]

Blame the editors. Claremont was told to drop Vargas & Destiny's diaries plotline.

What were the editors thinking? I think that's the problem. They weren't thinking.

They were thinking the X-treme X-Men was seriously underperforming. And it was.

[jarrod]

They were thinking the X-treme X-Men was seriously underperforming. And it was.
It was moving between 70-90k monthly for it's entire run iirc... that's basically what Uncanny and X-Men move now, or equivalent to New X-Men and X-Factor combined. Guess we should brace ourselves for some sweeping editorially mandated redirections soon...

I think the real problem was the revolving door editorial staff moreso than any percieved misdirection in the title itself. New guys just kept coming in and forcing their "vision" on things.

[Jake V]

It was moving between 70-90k monthly for it's entire run iirc... that's basically what Uncanny and X-Men move now, or equivalent to New X-Men and X-Factor combined. Guess we should brace ourselves for some sweeping editorially mandated redirections soon...

I think the real problem was the revolving door editorial staff moreso than any percieved misdirection in the title itself. New guys just kept coming in and forcing their "vision" on things.

It was dipping into the 60-50K range towards the end. But then, it was the #3 X-book and the one that looked the least like the one that was succeeding. Of course it was gonna get the most editorial handling.

[Deus ex Chris]

IIRC, X-Treme outperformed New X-Men and Uncanny X-Men in revenue for most of its run. Remember, New X-Men and Uncanny X-Men were $2.25 and X-Treme was $2.99. I'm fairly certain it brought in more revenue than any other Marvel book for its first few years of publication.

[Jake V]

Comics make money?

[jarrod]

It was dipping into the 60-50K range towards the end. But then, it was the #3 X-book and the one that looked the least like the one that was succeeding. Of course it was gonna get the most editorial handling.
Editorial manhandling due to staff turnover though, not due to performance itself really. Seriously, it had 5 complete editorial change-overs over it's run iirc... that's going to mess with a book's direction.

Still worth pointing out though that by today's standards, 60k would be a smashing success for a satellite book... in fact, none of them actually move those sorts of units. Claremont's included (which are limping along around 30k each).

[Jake V]

Editorial manhandling due to staff turnover though, not due to performance itself really. Seriously, it had 5 complete editorial change-overs over it's run iirc... that's going to mess with a book's direction.

Still worth pointing out though that by today's standards, 60k would be a smashing success for a satellite book... in fact, none of them actually move those sorts of units. Claremont's included (which are limping along around 30k each).

A satellite book that was part of family of titles that wasn't the main focus of a publisher maybe. Back during the time of X-treme, the X-books were Marvel's most popular line of books. Now it's the Avengers books that sell the most and X-men are secondary. 60-50K wouldn't be a big deal for the X-books today, but by comparison, if an Avengers book dipped to around 70-60K today when it normally sold more than that, it would get a major editorial manhandling.

[jarrod]

A satellite book that was part of family of titles that wasn't the main focus of a publisher maybe. Back during the time of X-treme, the X-books were Marvel's most popular line of books. Now it's the Avengers books that sell the most and X-men are secondary. 60-50K wouldn't be a big deal for the X-books today, but by comparison, if an Avengers book dipped to around 70-60K today when it normally sold more than that, it would get a major editorial manhandling.
Eh... even at that time it was far outperforming the other satellites (Emma Frost, Mystique, Cable, New Mutants, X-Force/X-Statix, etc) though admittedly those books didn't have "X-Men" in the title. Still, then or now, Xtreme's sales weren't at all what I think most would consider "underperforming" given it's level of promotion, positioning or pricetag.

Again though, the manhandling was due to continual editorial turnover. Now maybe one could make the case that turnover was somehow due to the book's performance, but I really don't know the specifics behind each shift myself... do you?

[slapstickinitiative]

I didn't even know Vargas was still alive...thought he was one of the depowered

[Beast]

They were thinking the X-treme X-Men was seriously underperforming. And it was.
It was more that there was massive editorial changes going on at the time.

The book got slammed with 4-5 different editors, each one forcing changes to already approved plots.

[Phil Hunn]

I didn't even know Vargas was still alive...thought he was one of the depowered

It was never confirmed whether or not Rogue killed the guy (the camera recording their fight ate static at a critical moment), so it was plausible that he might still be alive.

It was more that there was massive editorial changes going on at the time.

The book got slammed with 4-5 different editors, each one forcing changes to already approved plots.

Plots which were staggering along not really doing very much. The purpose of the Team X-Treme was to find diaries, yet the only active searching they did was to find Gateway (who just handed his volume over like a good little helper gnome). Hell, Kitty managed to find half a dozen by herself, off-panel, so Zod knows what Storm's bunch of flunkies were up to...

[Ice_Cold_Emma_Frost]

Vargas? Vargas?........hmmm.....ah yes...the twat that killed Psylocke for no reason what-so-ever and futher complicated her already messed up history and storyline

*Picks up Carey for Psylocke picket sign*

[Beast]

Right. Because obviously villains never kill the heroes for any reason what so ever.

[Joe Zool]

It was more that there was massive editorial changes going on at the time.

The book got slammed with 4-5 different editors, each one forcing changes to already approved plots.

And let's not forget Kordey.

That was the final nail, IMHO.

But I'm off-topic. This is about Vargas. Given that Uncanny seems to be mentioning the diary, I expect he'll show up there.

I wouldn't mind Rogue vs. Vargas, round two, though. :) But that's for the impossible dreamer.

[Ice_Cold_Emma_Frost]

Right. Because obviously villains never kill the heroes for any reason what so ever.

Having Vargas kill Psylocke would be like having Jean killed by Arcade.......pointless

[Beast]

Having Vargas kill Psylocke would be like having Jean killed by Arcade.......pointless
Other than it was part of an already approved plot to return Betsy to her British body. One that was torpedoed by editorial changes and the 'Dead is Dead' rule that was enacted to keep Colossus and Moira in their graves, and out of Morrison's hands. And to keep Morrison's Xorn reveal a secret.

[DDM]

Vargas? Vargas?........hmmm.....ah yes...the twat that killed Psylocke for no reason what-so-ever and futher complicated her already messed up history and storyline

*Picks up Carey for Psylocke picket sign*

Betsy's death in X-Treme X-Men originally was to strip her of the Crimson Dawn & Kwannon crap by returning her to her original body. I see Betsy's death as untangling a horrible knot made by other writers.

[Ice_Cold_Emma_Frost]

Betsy's death in X-Treme X-Men originally was to strip her of the Crimson Dawn & Kwannon crap by returning her to her original body. I see Betsy's death as untangling a horrible knot made by other writers.

except those that were untying the knot said "screw it" and left it to get even more tangled.

When they brought her back they could've had the Crimson Dawn return her in her original body as a "last time we'll save you" thing....but instead whomever decided we'd get some crappy Jamie Braddock and neverbefore seen space monsters storyline

If Vargas shows up it'll be yet another reason NOT to buy uncanny, and if mike carey brings him back...i'll lose a lot of respect

[Beast]

except those that were untying the knot said "screw it" and left it to get even more tangled.

When they brought her back they could've had the Crimson Dawn return her in her original body as a "last time we'll save you" thing....but instead whomever decided we'd get some crappy Jamie Braddock and neverbefore seen space monsters storyline

If Vargas shows up it'll be yet another reason NOT to buy uncanny, and if mike carey brings him back...i'll lose a lot of respect
Again. The Editor changed. Morrison's run impossed the "Dead is Dead" rule. And Marvel changed their minds after Betsy had already been killed. Marvel Merchandising put their foot down and wouldn't allow Betsy to be returned to her original body either. Hence why she returned still Asian years later in Uncanny X-Men.

[Ice_Cold_Emma_Frost]

Do you HONESTLY need to follow me around the board telling me I'm wrong?

geez its perturbing to say the least. I'm sorry but I'm tired of your contsant criticism of my posts, please find a new hobby.

[Sentou Ryoku]

He and the Diaries should be showing up soon according to Carey.

Is he going to be writing Vargas? If so, it's pretty amazing that he found him interesting enough to dig up.

[Jake V]

Again. The Editor changed. Morrison's run impossed the "Dead is Dead" rule. And Marvel changed their minds after Betsy had already been killed. Marvel Merchandising put their foot down and wouldn't allow Betsy to be returned to her original body either. Hence why she returned still Asian years later in Uncanny X-Men.
What was the thinking behind the idea to return her to her original body, then?

Why would Claremont want his characters to be more obsure and less marketable?

[blinkinrogue]

Were did you hear this from? could you provide me with a link to the rticle if it's an article.

It's also completely plausible that he's a Child of the Vault given his Spanish background and name, him being something other then a mutant or human, and is superior abilities. What is his strength level anyway? he went one on one with Rogue and she was Class 50 at least

i think rogue is far stronger than him, only problem was that her powers were not stable and seemed to shift and change constantly. Also vargas was quicker and with these phenomenal reflexes (still hard to imagine him beating the xtreme xmen with his powers though, and i think rogue still had the wolvie claws, healing, and optic blasts!!).

it'd be interesting if indeed he was a COTV member, maybe he left because he didnt want to associate himself with them anymore (when you have guys like sangre leading you, i would go rogue too - no pun intended). sabretooth would have been sushi if vargas led the cotv to hunt him.

[jarrod]

What was the thinking behind the idea to return her to her original body, then?
Just a change back, dropping all the body swap/cromson dawn/power swap baggage along the way. Claremont never intended for Betsy to remain Asian indefinitely anyway.


Why would Claremont want his characters to be more obsure and less marketable?
Gee, why wouldn't a writer want to put narrative before marketing?

[Dagger]

Srsly? Vargas and the diaries? LAME! I thought this was already taken care of when Rogue realized they were all in her head?(anti-climatic) And Vargas was just a plain tool. Absolutely worthless. The only thing I liked about him was his metrosexy twin body-guards Anaas and Anaaiias or however they spelt their names.

[Flâneur]

I thought this was already taken care of when Rogue realized they were all in her head?(anti-climatic)
They were? All I remember is Rogue's hair getting funny - as if she'd gone through 20 queer eye make overs a minute. :(

[Jake V]

Gee, why wouldn't a writer want to put narrative before marketing?
I'd assume that a writer would want his audience to be as large as possible so he could continue to tell his stories.

[jarrod]

I'd assume that a writer would want his audience to be as large as possible so he could continue to tell his stories.
I don't doubt Marvel's mechandising division agrees with you wholeheartedly.

[Phil Hunn]

Other than it was part of an already approved plot to return Betsy to her British body.

Much as I'd wish for this to have happened, she's been Asian too long for any change of that sort to happen now. Most fans these days don't know her any other way, and for Claremont to think that he could go against the tide of video games, toys, books, cartoons, and movie appearances featuring her as an Asian woman was hopelessly naive at best.

Is he going to be writing Vargas? If so, it's pretty amazing that he found him interesting enough to dig up.

Agreed. Vargas was... strong and arrogant. And that's about it.

Just a change back, dropping all the body swap/cromson dawn/power swap baggage along the way. Claremont never intended for Betsy to remain Asian indefinitely anyway.

True, and it's clear he regrets not changing her back when he had the chance to free her from the hell of that wretched swimsuit - but she's stuck that way now, and she'll never change. Sadly.

[Callisto]

considering cc is the one who approved psylocke in that "wretched swimsuit" and continuilly allows her to wear that as a supposed costume. makes it quite clear that cc adores it. i don't really see anything wrong with betsy remaining asian, i really think cc should have kept her with those crimson dawn powers and not dared give her telekinesis it only further complicated things.

[Mikl C]

They were? All I remember is Rogue's hair getting funny - as if she'd gone through 20 queer eye make overs a minute. :(

Yeh she realised HEYWAITAMINUTE I abosrbed destiny IHAVETHEMALLINMYHEAD. And then she apparently invalidated them anyway by not killing Vargas.
Suffice to say: LAME.
X-treme sucked.

[Ice_Cold_Emma_Frost]

Yeh she realised HEYWAITAMINUTE I abosrbed destiny IHAVETHEMALLINMYHEAD. And then she apparently invalidated them anyway by not killing Vargas.
Suffice to say: LAME.
X-treme sucked.

Which is why i dont get why they're bringing them back in Uncanny

[Phil Hunn]

considering cc is the one who approved psylocke in that "wretched swimsuit" and continuilly allows her to wear that as a supposed costume.

:rolleyes:

Yes, let's blame CC for everything.

He wasn't around for most of the 90s where she was continually posing like a hooker and showing off her Brazilian bikini wax, or leaping towards villains clearly aiming to smother them with her crotch (hey, if you're gonna go...), so he had nothing to do with that. And when he came back for the Revolution, Leinil Yu designed her a new costume complete with pants. Yes, it only lasted about ten issues before CC was booted, but it was there nevertheless. Alan Davis put her in that training costume with the popped collar and form-fitting tights and sleeves until the horrible, inevitable return of the swimsuit.

Betsy being stuck in that dreadful excuse for a costume has more to do with Marvel marketing than anything else. And it's really funny to hear people justify it by saying that she needs to wear a tight costume because she's a ninja - if that's the case, why aren't all those nameless Hand cannon-fodder ninjas all decked out in swimsuits instead of those loose pyjama-type outfits?

makes it quite clear that cc adores it.

Yeah, that'll be why he killed her intending to change her back, then...

i don't really see anything wrong with betsy remaining asian, i really think cc should have kept her with those crimson dawn powers and not dared give her telekinesis it only further complicated things.

The Crimson Dawn teleport-o-powers were really just a symptom of the 90s writers not really having much idea of what to do with Betsy, and yet being forced to keep her around because so many fanboys enjoyed sticking the pages of their comics together over her.

Really, I'm glad they're gone, as is that bloody great tattoo over her eye.

As for Betsy remaining Asian... there's everything wrong with it, because it was a crap, lazy development in the first place (instant ninjafication? What the hell?), but the fact of the matter is that it's not going to change now.

Yeh she realised HEYWAITAMINUTE I abosrbed destiny IHAVETHEMALLINMYHEAD. And then she apparently invalidated them anyway by not killing Vargas.
Suffice to say: LAME.
X-treme sucked.

Pretty terrible plot device, that one.

[KidNewWave]

If Carey is going to be writing Vargas BRING IT ON! He hasn't let us down yet with his nasty villains.......

I seriously doubt Vargas is from the Vault, the Vault was a sealed space, there was no way for anyone to get in or out,
M-Day triggered the opening accidentally releasing the children early. I doubt Vargas managed to sneak out in the middle of the night =)

Vargas is Homo Sapien Superior, thats the only real comparison you can make between Vargas and The Children,
Also Vargas didn't use any of the advanced technology that the Children use.

[Beast]

Perhaps Mystique 'killing' Rogue was so that Vargas would give Sinister the 'Book of Destiny' that he holds.

[Samuraixsithlord]

Well it would be easily retconned so that Vargas found a way out before M Day. Plus his Spanish name and origin (was it ever really revealed why the Children of the Vault were Spanish). I really thought the children were pretty interesting i hope they show up again in endangered species

[Ice_Cold_Emma_Frost]

Well it would be easily retconned so that Vargas found a way out before M Day. Plus his Spanish name and origin (was it ever really revealed why the Children of the Vault were Spanish). I really thought the children were pretty interesting i hope they show up again in endangered species

I wouldn't want Vargas to worm his way out. He was *supposed* to be Nova's counterpart and if Carey writes him it'd make more sense for him to be somehow connected to Hetacomb rather than TCotV (The Children of the Vault).

Hey! maybe Vargas will return, touch Rogue but instead of getting killed, (and if he is a mummraidi) he'd absorb all those minds from her making her just Rogue again.

[Faded]

Hmmm...can't say I'm excited about the writers wanting to revisit Vargas. Maybe someone has something up their sleeve for him, but I'm not interested at this point.

That's an idea I could get behind. Vargas was 1/3 of the reason I never made it to issue 4 of X-Treme. He seemed so generic to me as a villain. It was like "Oooooh... He's MEAN and has a SWORD and he looks like Glenn Danzig's little brother!" Lame. Having him as a Child of the Vault will give him a backstory that makes sense with what's been revealed about him so far, and hopefully will make him seem cool by association.

What were the other 2 reasons?

:
Really, I'm glad they're gone, as is that bloody great tattoo over her eye.

I actually liked the tattoo. It was distinctive and neat.

About everything else--I think at this point its impossible to "fix" Betsy. It'll just make it messier.

Well it would be easily retconned so that Vargas found a way out before M Day. Plus his Spanish name and origin (was it ever really revealed why the Children of the Vault were Spanish). I really thought the children were pretty interesting i hope they show up again in endangered species

Carey said we'll be seeing them again, but not until after the crossover(s).

[Slung]

Hmmm...can't say I'm excited about the writers wanting to revisit Vargas. Maybe someone has something up their sleeve for him, but I'm not interested at this point.



What were the other 2 reasons?



I actually liked the tattoo. It was distinctive and neat.

About everything else--I think at this point its impossible to "fix" Betsy. It'll just make it messier.



Carey said we'll be seeing them again, but not until after the crossover(s).
I agree with everything Faded just said...'cause his avatar is soooo cool. :)

[Beast]

I wouldn't want Vargas to worm his way out. He was *supposed* to be Nova's counterpart and if Carey writes him it'd make more sense for him to be somehow connected to Hetacomb rather than TCotV (The Children of the Vault).

Hey! maybe Vargas will return, touch Rogue but instead of getting killed, (and if he is a mummraidi) he'd absorb all those minds from her making her just Rogue again.
He wasn't supposed to be Nova's counterpart.

It was theorized, on panel, that he was the Xavier Protocals somehow given life.

[Ice_Cold_Emma_Frost]

He wasn't supposed to be Nova's counterpart.

It was theorized, on panel, that he was the Xavier Protocals somehow given life.

It was written in Destiny's Diary in issue 3/4 that he was Nova's counterpart the protocals were already given life when Cerebro came to life they even had that two page spread where all the xmen are taken down by the XP but it was an illusion by Xaiver.

[Mikl C]

He wasn't supposed to be Nova's counterpart.

It was theorized, on panel, that he was the Xavier Protocals somehow given life.

How do you know exactly what he was supposed to be?
The counterpart to Nova idea was "theorized on panel" as much as the Protocols idea.

[dotdotdot]

Blame the editors. Claremont was told to drop Vargas & Destiny's diaries plotline.

What were the editors thinking? I think that's the problem. They weren't thinking.

hahahahahhaha

[david r]

Vargas was going to be revealed to be the offspring of Colossus after Peter had entered the Siege Perilous in UXM #251. Vargas would have been the bizarre byproduct of Mr. Sinister and Gambit, a clone created to join the X*S*E and turn traitor, causing death and destruction in his wake, while simultaneously seducing Rogue.

Vargas' true nature would then stand revealed: the First Forsaken and Male Opposite of the Phoenix Force, who was the bizarre offspring of Scott Summers and the Phoenix Force. With no mother involved, though he believes Jean Grey is his true mother and joins Magneto's Acolytes in a stunning betrayal of Charles Xavier and his Dream.

Vargas would then have been killed in a pointless collission with a Blackbird, written by a TV writer from Hollywood who had done NYPD Blue, Sesame Street and Sanford & Son.

[Dagger]

LOL! I love how crazy your posts always are!

[Samuraixsithlord]

Vargas was going to be revealed to be the offspring of Colossus after Peter had entered the Siege Perilous in UXM #251. Vargas would have been the bizarre byproduct of Mr. Sinister and Gambit, a clone created to join the X*S*E and turn traitor, causing death and destruction in his wake, while simultaneously seducing Rogue.[/B]

Those are actually pretty good ideas, but i'm sticking to the COTV theory. easily connectioned (to me anyway) by two simple things

1. Spanish name and origin
2. A supposed third race neither human or mutant

[Samuraixsithlord]

Can someone please give me a link to were Carey talked about bringing Vargas back

[Samuraixsithlord]

**bump****bump****bump**

[pc999]

Will he be back? cool I really liked him.

[CmX]

I think he was planned for a cameo, but Carey recently said it was going to be more of a mention or that it would be severly short cameo IIRC.

[Blade X]

Now it's the Avengers books that sell the most and X-men are secondary. 60-50K wouldn't be a big deal for the X-books today, but by comparison, if an Avengers book dipped to around 70-60K today when it normally sold more than that, it would get a major editorial manhandling.

Well before it went on hiatus, YOUNG AVENGERS was selling between 60-70k (it started out selling over 90k), and the book did'nt get a major editorial change.

[Callisto]

:rolleyes:

Yes, let's blame CC for everything.

He wasn't around for most of the 90s where she was continually posing like a hooker and showing off her Brazilian bikini wax, or leaping towards villains clearly aiming to smother them with her crotch (hey, if you're gonna go...), so he had nothing to do with that. And when he came back for the Revolution, Leinil Yu designed her a new costume complete with pants. Yes, it only lasted about ten issues before CC was booted, but it was there nevertheless. Alan Davis put her in that training costume with the popped collar and form-fitting tights and sleeves until the horrible, inevitable return of the swimsuit..


and your point is? yes he gave her a couple of new costumes, one that made her look like some hideous lesbian pirate and another that was pretty much tha same thing as her thong costume only it had suspenders attached to her boots. other then that he pretty much had her wearing that elektra knock off costume and i'm sure its cause he adores it.

:Betsy being stuck in that dreadful excuse for a costume has more to do with Marvel marketing than anything else. And it's really funny to hear people justify it by saying that she needs to wear a tight costume because she's a ninja - if that's the case, why aren't all those nameless Hand cannon-fodder ninjas all decked out in swimsuits instead of those loose pyjama-type outfits?..


betsy being stuck in that thong has nothing to do with marvel marketing and more to do with laziness on the writer and artists part to acctually think of a decent outfit to put betsy in that doesn't make her look like a whore or that hasn't been worn by thousands of other x-men such as tha standard uniform.



:Yeah, that'll be why he killed her intending to change her back, then...?..

into what? a white woman with martial arts training telekinesis and mold covered thong? i guess her no longer being asian would change all tha things wrong with psylocke currently right?:rolleyes:




:The Crimson Dawn teleport-o-powers were really just a symptom of the 90s writers not really having much idea of what to do with Betsy, and yet being forced to keep her around because so many fanboys enjoyed sticking the pages of their comics together over her.
Really, I'm glad they're gone, as is that bloody great tattoo over her eye....?..


and the telekinesis is different from that how???? atleast betsy having those shadow powers made her somewhat unique from all the thousands of psi mutants out there.

:As for Betsy remaining Asian... there's everything wrong with it, because it was a crap, lazy development in the first place (instant ninjafication? What the hell?), but the fact of the matter is that it's not going to change now.....?..


and what would turning her back into a british blonde do? NOTHING wats done is done betsy is now a white woman trapped in some asian assasins body. i find that idea far more compelling than elisabeth being returned to her old legacy infested body after how many years of her being in her asian one.

[Samuraixsithlord]

In the preview pages for X-men #202 it shows Bobby and Sam talking about the Maurauders targets and it shows Vargas getting thrown out a window. but they never found out if he was alive or dead

[Keith_Martineau]

In the preview pages for X-men #202 it shows Bobby and Sam talking about the Maurauders targets and it shows Vargas getting thrown out a window. but they never found out if he was alive or dead

Bobby was referring to the fact that after his last appearance in X-Treme, nobody knew if he was dead or alive.

Till Emma pulled some info out of a Mauraders head that told her they'd killed him.
He's done.

And this story could not be about anything BUT Destinies Diaries. And I love it. I think we're seeing a major effort to REALLY streamline the continuity of X-Men. They're tying up loose ends like time travel---by doing away with the time travelers, and the future time predictions.

[Deus ex Chris]

In the preview pages for X-men #202 it shows Bobby and Sam talking about the Maurauders targets and it shows Vargas getting thrown out a window. but they never found out if he was alive or dead
Oh, he got more than a shove out of a window. He got harpooned!

[Hi-Fi]

Oh, he got more than a shove out of a window. He got harpooned!
LOL!


Yeah, guys, he's done.

[steve2275]

Blame the editors. Claremont was told to drop Vargas & Destiny's diaries plotline.

What were the editors thinking? I think that's the problem. They weren't thinking.
other than keeping up with things and makeing it so it all comes together
the need to keep their mouths SHUT

[SnakeEater]

LOL!


Yeah, guys, he's done.

i love how carey is making this the maruaders into this big group that actually seems to be causing damage. how many times did storm's group fight vargas? and each time they got owned. Now come in the bad guys and vargas is mopping the floor with his head, so classic. about time too i was tired of seeing xmen sitting in the mansion while everyone attacked them....oh wait...

[Deus ex Chris]

i love how carey is making this the maruaders into this big group that actually seems to be causing damage. how many times did storm's group fight vargas? and each time they got owned. Now come in the bad guys and vargas is mopping the floor with his head, so classic. about time too i was tired of seeing xmen sitting in the mansion while everyone attacked them....oh wait...
Actually, Beast, Rogue, Psylocke, and Slipstream were the only ones to fight Vargas. Storm's whole team never did. Storm never even met him face to face. She would've kicked his ass all over the place.

[streator]

i would have preferred rogue killing him in xxm than this.

but, oh well.

[blinkinrogue]

this was no plain ms. marvel rogue he faced, didnt she have the unstable powers plus the optic blasts and wolvie healing factor? didnt vargas easily handle that storm-impostor ( i forgot his name, but during one of his earlier appearances when he attacked storm and the rest of the xmen, he seemed to do fairly well against them, but vargas easily bested him when he was posing as storm). so i think maybe vargas is not dead (or if he was, he should have killed a couple of marauders along the way).

it's interesting though, the prophecy was that he would be killed by rogue, and it turns out that (maybe) he got killed by the marauders, so how are destiny's books really of much significance to sinister and the marauders?

[Deus ex Chris]

didnt vargas easily handle that storm-impostor ( i forgot his name, but during one of his earlier appearances when he attacked storm and the rest of the xmen, he seemed to do fairly well against them, but vargas easily bested him when he was posing as storm).
He handled a Storm impostor who didn't have Storm's powers nor her fabulous gift for battlefield improvisation. He just looked like her.

[blinkinrogue]

yes thats true, but the storm-impostor also took on the team with gambit, storm, rogue, lifeguard, bishop? (??? i cant remember the rest) and i thought he handled them pretty well (he had some invulnerability or something). not that i like vargas as a villain or anything (seemed like he really had no purpose to be there at all) but i think it'll take more than a couple of marauders to kill him (then again, we dont know how many of them were there). Also, how did the marauders or sinister know about vargas possessing the books??

[Phil Hunn]

this was no plain ms. marvel rogue he faced, didnt she have the unstable powers plus the optic blasts and wolvie healing factor? didnt vargas easily handle that storm-impostor ( i forgot his name, but during one of his earlier appearances when he attacked storm and the rest of the xmen, he seemed to do fairly well against them, but vargas easily bested him when he was posing as storm).

That was Shaitan the skinwalker impersonating Storm... and then getting his arse kicked and his body stuffed like a turkey so it could be put on display in Vargas' trophy cabinet.

Can't say I'm overjoyed about Vargas' return, though. Mistakes like him are best forgotten. Or decisively killed off.