X-Men #200 Review and Spoilers

[Hi-Fi]

She tried to kill Rogue before, it's perfectly in character.

No, buddy, her trying to kill Rogue before was the out of character moment (ugh. Dream's End).

Since Rogue first appeared, we know that Mystique truly loves her and is, in fact, obsessed by her. And we know that she hates the X-Men for taking her daughter away from her.

Best moment that shows that it's when she breaks in the mansion to kill Xavier and take Rogue back and Rogue convinces her not to.

And on training at least, she never hestiated in killing Rogue (although she did with Kurt). If it's suits her interests, she would kill her, i don't doubt it. She's not Sabretooth, but she's not a hero or a Magneto either.
Well, it was a training exercise, and she knew that one of the robots was programmed to kill her.

I dunno, Mystique is like psycho mommy dearest. I do think she would kill Rogue but she would in her twisted way do if for some better purpose. Like she would do it to teach her a lesson, get even if she felt Rogue hurt or betrayed her or if she thought that killing her was for Rogue's good. It's her way. It's sick and demented, but there you have it.
Gotta love her. I know I do!

Mystique doesn't necessarily love Kurt. That one issue where she couldn't shoot him was OOC. She may have given birth to him, but she didn't want him, Rogue on the other hand she took into her home. She chose Rogue, trained her and molded her. She is Raven's creation, so Raven feels sort of betrayed that Rogue left her. Maybe she shot her to bring her back to the darkside?[/QUOTE]

With Rogue, there is a different kind of attachment. Rogue didn't complicate her life, she added to it. Rogue was a choice she made while Kurt was, for lack of a better term, forced upon her. But Rogue is not her flesh and blood.
I think she cares more for Rogue, though. With Kurt, it's like she has this big guity about him. But she doesn't know him well enough to actually love him, I believe.

[jarrod]

On Carey's? For sure:

Rogue
Northstar
Husk

Rogue is of course the character who was most focused, and Carey already said he'll bring Husk and Northstar.

Possibly or probably:
Cannonball
Iceman
Aurora
Beast

And maybe one or another member we're expecting or he hasn't talked about much, like Wolverine. Or he gets Psylocke finally.

Sam might go the new X-force, but i think he'll stay and be with Husk. Aurora might be brought to be with Northstar too. Beast i think will be the character Carey didn't expected he was going to get, but he ended up getting. And if Iceman doesn't go to one of the other books (i don't see Brubaker interested, but maybe the new AXM writer is, and he gives Hank to take Bobby) he will be there too.
I think you're close on this... unfortunately, I'm starting to think Sam's gonna be the one to go though (likely for X-Force again, ugh), which is really a shame given Pagie's so clearly going to be joining eventually. Post MC I see the team as...

Beast (stand in leader)
Rogue
Iceman
Northstar
Husk

...with maybe another member or two (maybe a telepath? Maybe Rachel, Betsy or Karma?). Bru might also swap out some members (I'd kill to get Kurt over here) and depending on how Astonishing's new creative team goes, and the new post-MC X-line directs, I could see Bru swapping out Xaiver for Cyclops over there.




How was that scene OOC? She has never been shown to outright hate Kurt. In X-men Unlimited #4, she even risked her own life to save his and in that one Milligan X-men issue I can't remember the number of, he asked her to leave for a while so he could get his head around the fact that she would be joining and lo and behold - she did.
I would guess the biological bond, knowing that he's her own flesh and blood plays a big part. He would have complicated her life a lot, so she threw him away, but he's still her real son, a part of her. A mother's attachment to her child can be a pretty powerful thing.
With Rogue, there is a different kind of attachment. Rogue didn't complicate her life, she added to it. Rogue was a choice she made while Kurt was, for lack of a better term, forced upon her. But Rogue is not her flesh and blood.
I'd go farther than that even... Raven didn't reject Kurt or anything, she was literally forced to sacrifice him to save herself. I think there's an overwhelming guilt and sense of loss there coming from Raven, which is why she can't bring herself to hurt him (unlike Rogue) and listens to his wishes (again, unlike Rogue).

Raven might love Rogue, but Kurt more devastates her. He really represents everything she wishes she could've done differently and forces her to really take a sober look at those dark moments in her past.

[d newton]

No, buddy, her trying to kill Rogue before was the out of character moment (ugh. Dream's End).
How was it out of character when she did the exact same thing at the end of this issue! :confused:

[Hi-Fi]

How was it out of character when she did the exact same thing at the end of this issue! :confused:
The difference is that now I really do believe there's a trick and she's actually sparing Rogue from suffering in her own twisted mind.

[bfrank]

No, buddy, her trying to kill Rogue before was the out of character moment (ugh. Dream's End).

Since Rogue first appeared, we know that Mystique truly loves her and is, in fact, obsessed by her. And we know that she hates the X-Men for taking her daughter away from her.


...you're right, of course, in stating that mystique was/is obsessed.....which is why, mystique trying to kill her, will never be an out of character moment......

[The Fury]

I told you lot, but no one listened. Mystique is villain and always will be.



Nice book, shift in art was good. Story was nice. Look forward to the rest.

Backup story, good, Hurrah for Beast, but going to villainous minds, Reed is more inteligent then all but maybe 2 of those and one only cares for genetics and isn't a real villain.

[creaky]

I said she didn't necessarily love him, I never said she hated him. That's kinda leaping. ;)

True.

I don't recall the Milligan issue where she risked her life to save Kurt. That surprises me. However, I wouldn't go by Unlimited #4 as it had Rogue with Mystique after she had her powers and she was with Raven before her powers manifested. That issue was completely way off base from canon. BTW that was the only issues I was referring to. She has never really shown any interest in him since. Flesh and blood only means something to sane compassionate people, Raven is more in attached to Rogue as her real creation. And she didn't really leave the X-Men when Kurt asked her to as you can see. Kurt's feelings don't really have a part in Mystique's overall plan, which only MC knows right now.

The Milligan issue was not where she risked her life to save him, that was at the end of X-men Unlimited #4. Many things may have been out of character there, but her caring for him wasn't, as that had previously been shown in the Claremont issue where she hesitated to kill his robot look-alike.

The Milligan issue takes place right after she has seemingly seduced Gambit in order to take him away from Rogue. Kurt asks her to leave for a while, for his sake. She does, before even knowing if she has been accepted as an X-man. If she hadn't cared, she had no reason to leave. If she hadn't cared, she wouldn't have hesitated killing his robot look-alike. If she hadn't cared, she wouldn't have let go at the waterfall so he could be saved. Her caring for him has been consistently shown the few times it's been brought up. The only exception is The Draco, where Austen decided to go against what was previously established and that wasn't the only characterization he butchered.

The lack of interest in him does not mean she is unaffected by him. In fact, she's likely not looking him up BECAUSE he affects her. Why would she want to actively seek out someone she feels guilty about? Rogue, she raised and has happy memories with, so feeling possessive about her makes sense.

And there are plenty of "insane" and cruel people out there to whom flesh and blood bonds mean a lot (to some, even everything). Mystique is one of the most complicated characters in the X-universe, as Carey himself has pointed out.

[jen]

I guess I just kinda read it differently. She left when Kurt asked her to, briefly, but I didn't see it as caring for his feelings. More that she was trying to get in with the X-Men and upsetting Kurt would not help her in that regard. The thing about Misty and Kurt is, their relationship was retconned into existence. She never cared until Unlimited #4. Other than that her history is wrapped up in Rogue and Destiny. And good golly she continues to plague Rogue, not because of happy memories, but because Rogue is hers. That's her little girl, the one she was training to be a perfect terrorist. The one who left her and the one she can't seem to let go (much to Rogue's personal sanity and health). Raven has the kind of love that kills, literally. So the fact that she leaves Kurt alone IMO means she doesn't really have a connection there or an invested interest. But, Raven is very complicated, so she could love Kurt more than anyone knows. Unfortunately, we just never see it on panel.

[ProfeZZor X]

I don't know if this has been asked, but why did Mystique feel the need to tell the X-Men she sensed someone trespassing in the house, when all the Marauders had to do was remain cloaked and pick off the X-Men one by one, when they were alone?

[Omega Alpha]

I don't know if this has been asked, but why did Mystique feel the need to tell the X-Men she sensed someone trespassing in the house, when all the Marauders had to do was remain cloaked and pick off the X-Men one by one, when they were alone?

The X-men would've noticed it eventually, and by warning them she was making sure they wouldn't suspect she is involved.

[SYBERNYMPH]

I Suggest They Bring In A Few New Faces


Threnody
Outlaw
And Copycat If She Was Still Alive

[Red Lotus]

I don't know if this has been asked, but why did Mystique feel the need to tell the X-Men she sensed someone trespassing in the house, when all the Marauders had to do was remain cloaked and pick off the X-Men one by one, when they were alone?

To set the trap. She told them they were outside the house 100 yards away. Picking them off one by one is risky. What if Beast or Wolverine sensed them as they walk up on them, they could sense them in the room with them as soon as they entered it.

[ProfeZZor X]

The X-men would've noticed it eventually, and by warning them she was making sure they wouldn't suspect she is involved.

That's true, but if she was is the same room as the majority of the remaining X-Men, it might not seem as obvious if she gave off the same surprised look if they revealed themselves later on.

[jarrod]

The lack of interest in him does not mean she is unaffected by him. In fact, she's likely not looking him up BECAUSE he affects her. Why would she want to actively seek out someone she feels guilty about? Rogue, she raised and has happy memories with, so feeling possessive about her makes sense.
Totally true... from the brief glimpses we've gotten, it seems to me Kurt more disarms Raven than anything. Raven obviously loves Rogue, but there's a different connection between her and Kurt that comparably puts her at a large disadvantage... shame we never had a chance to see them all on the same team, there's some amazing psychology at work there.

[Crimson]

I told you lot, but no one listened. Mystique is villain and always will be.



Nice book, shift in art was good. Story was nice. Look forward to the rest.

Backup story, good, Hurrah for Beast, but going to villainous minds, Reed is more inteligent then all but maybe 2 of those and one only cares for genetics and isn't a real villain.

He's already been to see Reed though. I assume now its not about smarts, its about going to people who would willingly cross a morale line... although with Reed these days he could do that anyway

[Syzygy]

I Suggest They Bring In A Few New Faces
....
And Copycat If She Was Still Alive

Copycat has actually survived fatal wounds by duplicating the healing factor of anyone near her. She was "killed" by Sabertooth (healing factor), and "died" in Deadpool's arms (healing factor).

So there's actually a convient explanation should some writer wish to bring her back. For know, though, Marvel does indeed list her as deceased.

[Affinity]

Best moment that shows that it's when she breaks in the mansion to kill Xavier and take Rogue back and Rogue convinces her not to.

<SNIP>

WHEN WHEN WHEN is this? What issue, I mean? Sounds awesome, and I want to see them in some cool retro art!

[Mystique's Rogue]

WHEN WHEN WHEN is this? What issue, I mean? Sounds awesome, and I want to see them in some cool retro art!

I saw that one too but I forgot what issue. It happened when Rogue was very young and just new to the X-men. There's also another touching moment between Rogue and Mystique when Rogue was already an X-Men. If I'm not mistaken, it was about Rogue finding out that Mystique was alive when she had thought that she was dead and she was kinda blaming Mystique for not telling her. Then Mystique said something to the effect that, they should stop blaming each other and just be happy that both are alive, something like that.

Then in the end, it was a nice scene. They hugged each other and Mystique said, "Looks like we got ourselves a Kodak moment here." Then Rogue replied, "Aw, shuddup." ;)

[Hi-Fi]

WHEN WHEN WHEN is this? What issue, I mean? Sounds awesome, and I want to see them in some cool retro art!
http://img178.imageshack.us/img178/6458/uncannyxmen178019yo1.jpg
http://img181.imageshack.us/img181/6306/uncannyxmen178020fe3.jpg

There's also another touching moment between Rogue and Mystique when Rogue was already an X-Men. If I'm not mistaken, it was about Rogue finding out that Mystique was alive when she had thought that she was dead and she was kinda blaming Mystique for not telling her.
http://img178.imageshack.us/img178/1254/xfactor07011aq2.jpg
http://img181.imageshack.us/img181/762/xfactor07012qk5.jpg

[blinkinrogue]

I saw that one too but I forgot what issue. It happened when Rogue was very young and just new to the X-men. There's also another touching moment between Rogue and Mystique when Rogue was already an X-Men. If I'm not mistaken, it was about Rogue finding out that Mystique was alive when she had thought that she was dead and she was kinda blaming Mystique for not telling her. Then Mystique said something to the effect that, they should stop blaming each other and just be happy that both are alive, something like that.

Then in the end, it was a nice scene. They hugged each other and Mystique said, "Looks like we got ourselves a Kodak moment here." Then Rogue replied, "Aw, shuddup." ;)

musta ka long time no see ah....



ALLEZ JUSTINE

[GreatLakesAvenger]

Funny how, between Rogue's first Uncanny appearance and her recent appearances in adjectiveless, she seems to have progressively gotten younger.

[Tobias March]

http://img178.imageshack.us/img178/6458/uncannyxmen178019yo1.jpg

http://img178.imageshack.us/img178/1254/xfactor07011aq2.jpg

oh dear, looks like another retcon/error slipped in there regarding Rogue's childhood. Namely it says here Mystique adopted her before her powers manifested.

[Ice_Cold_Emma_Frost]

oh dear, looks like another retcon/error slipped in there regarding Rogue's childhood. Namely it says here Mystique adopted her before her powers manifested.

It's possible she did....Rogue grew up with Destiny and Mystique...Destiny could've told Mystique that Rogue would grow up to be a powerful mutant one day and therefore Mystique adopted her before her powers came to her

[DDM]

WHEN WHEN WHEN is this? What issue, I mean? Sounds awesome, and I want to see them in some cool retro art!

Uncanny X-Men #177-178:

http://image.milehighcomics.com/istore/images/fullsize/97792366288.177.GIFhttp://image.milehighcomics.com/istore/images/fullsize/97792366288.178.GIF

[Affinity]

Thanks for the info everyone! Thanks for the scan, Hi-Fi! And thank you for the issue numbers, DDM! I was particularly interested in the last one, I'll try and see if I can read it in the shop.

[UncannyAsianGirl]

oh dear, looks like another retcon/error slipped in there regarding Rogue's childhood. Namely it says here Mystique adopted her before her powers manifested.
It's true, it's the most accepted version of their story. :D The only issue that states that Mystique adopted Rogue after her powers manifested is X-Men Unlimited #4.

Here's the note from Mystique's Spotlight On (http://www.uncannyxmen.net/db/spotlight/showquestion.asp?faq=10&fldAuto=79)
entry at UXM.net. If you haven't read it, I recommend it, It's quite an interesting read. There's so much more to Mystique than just manipulative backstabbing baddie.

Well anyway, here's the note:
[Note : In X-Men Unlimited #4 Rogue is said to have run away and being adopted by Mystique because of the incident with Cody, yet a majority of stories establish that Rogue already lived with Mystique before her powers manifested. In Uncanny X-Men #178, Rogue says that Mystique used to comfort her when she had bad nightmares and X-Men #93 shows a photograph of Mystique embracing Rogue and their bare skins in contact. Additionally, Scott Lobdell, the writer of the story in X-Men Unlimited, admitted that the issue is full of errors and plot holes.

Carey also reiterates that Mystique adopted Rogue before her powers manifested, look at the flashback page in X-Men #200. Not only does Rogue look like a small child in it, but if you look at the doorway she's leaning on, there are marks noting her age and height as a child. The lowest one indicates that she was 7 years old when she came to live with Mystique, long before her incident with Cody.

It probably doesn't mean anything, but the last mark reads "Anna 12". I'd put this as the time when Rogue's powers became active, (most accounts say that she was a young teenager when this happened, so it seems like a good age) and she went from being called Anna to being called Rogue.

So, if my guess is correct, I'd say she ran away from home when she was 7-years-old, spent 5 years living with Raven and Irene without powers, 5 years living with them with powers, and finally, 7 years with the X-Men. That'd make her 24 now.

I'd like to think that, at least for the first 5 years, Rogue had a happy, and relatively normal (well, as normal as living with a blue shapeshifter and blind precog who are lesbian lovers is ever going to get :p) childhood.

Well, this is according to info from Carey's run, when his run is over (which I hope isn't for a very long time) another writer might retcon it, but I wish they wouldn't since the numbers are so nice and neat.

It's kinda sad that Mystique shot Rogue at the end of the issue, even if Raven does have a good reason for doing it besides a simple act of betrayal (and I think she does have one), Rogue isn't going to see it that way, and might try to commit matricide the next time they meet. :eek:

I'd go with either, Mystique shot her down to get her out of the way, or knew that Rogue would survive beforehand (probably something from the diaries), wanted to incapcitate her to take her to Sinister, or, (haven't seen this one here before, and have only seen it once before elsewhere, but it makes sense) shot her in order to attempt a mercy kill, after hearing that Rogue would probably end up going insane, and wanted to spare her from that.

Eh, after this experience, I think Rogue is going to be mentally unstable for a while.

Heh, is this really my first post in this thread? I really liked this issue, and the Marauders were scary and a formidable threat, as they should be; and as a lot of poeple pointed out before, Lady M's moment revealing them was all sorts of fun. :D

[Mystique's Rogue]

Funny how, between Rogue's first Uncanny appearance and her recent appearances in adjectiveless, she seems to have progressively gotten younger.


Well, she didn't look good in during her early appearances. ......Then Marc Silvestri made her look pretty, then Jim Lee made her a hottie.....then XTAS made her look even more attractive than Jim Lee did,.........and so on and so forth. Which is the reason why she seems to look younger and younger as time passes.

I think she was drawn as looking too old for her age in her recent appearances.

Hi-Fi, thanks for posting those scans. :)

Hey, blinkin Rogue, long time no see. :D

[Erik Lehnsherr]

Uncanny X-Men #177-178:

http://image.milehighcomics.com/istore/images/fullsize/97792366288.177.GIFhttp://image.milehighcomics.com/istore/images/fullsize/97792366288.178.GIF

I was waiting for this poster after I saw the retro Rogue/Mystique run in.

[Exodus22]

I'd been looking forward to this issue for months. Carey's run is one of the best in years. My thoughts:

1. Cable isn't dead. At least I hope he isn't. I would of thought he would have bodyslided out of there in the time it took for the bomb to go off. Seeing as he knows Gambit and Sunfire were planning something major, he would do whatever it takes to make sure he was still in the game.

2. The pacing of this issue was fantastic and I thought it really clever to have the different plots and their settings split between Bachalo and Ramos. I've been a fan of both artists for ages, so it was absolutely amazing to have them both on X-Men, let alone in the same issue.

3. "One minute before dawn"...? Dawn of a new era of mutants? Perhaps the mutant race has an opportunity for survival and there are those who want to manipulate and exploit that opportunity. Mr. Sinister, for instance...

4. I originally thought that the line "Malice moves with the times" was just a line, not a character introducing themselves. The cutesy language used, such as referring to cyclops as "Love-puppy", made me think of Cameron Hodge, which would make sense with the whole "I'm digital now" line. However, it seems it's Malice. I know the character, but can't really remember much about her.

5. The first chapter of 'Endangered Species' was really good-obviously just bringing everyone up to speed and setting the scene, but Beast at the end...WHOA! When you realise who he's talking to...man, the stakes have most definetely been upped. This is going to come back to haunt Beast in a major way and i'm really looking forward to it...

6. Gambit's return. That splash page was beautiful. It needs to made into a poster. "Pick a card, my friend. For old times' sake." Genius.

[Accroître]

I just read this fantastic issue w/ the Cable/Deadpool stories that went along with it.

So my question is, has Marvel confirmed that Cable is dead?

It seemed more like he was anticipating these events and knew that this would be good-bye for now but that he would be back.

[Brett P]

I also have just read it! I still don't like Ramos silly art much, but the story ws great! Ramos Lady M and Emma look ridiculously similar, the colorist should atleast have given them more visibly different hair shade, Emma with platinum blonde and Regan with the usual yellow and Emma should have silver/blue lips like usual! So simple, so stupidly missed!

Was very shocked by the last page! I'm not so sure that either Rogue or Cable are dead, though I could easily live without Cable.

I continue to hate Bobby's blond hair.

[YoungG03]

Pandemic was there too, at the top-left screen, as was Kavita Rao who was beside MODOK.

who are they along with Arnim Zola. Also M.o.d.o.k mess with genetics? I knew he was a cap villian and intelligent. I havent heard bout the high evolutionary in years and i thought all teh AoA folks were gone....

Who is Malice and what does the Maruders got to do wit anything?
Who is this Lady Sentinel?
why have gambit and Sunfire gone bad and what in the world wuld they want with Cable?


overall this story was decent but i dont know how Hank is gonna cure something scientifically when it didnt happen that way...Maybe iif Dr. Strange survives Hank can look him up....

[Stagier]

malice is an original maurader from fall of the mutants time. you might not recognize her/him/it 'cause she was dressed as polaris at the time.

i forgot how lorna got free.

OMEGA sentinel is Karima something, Neal something aka Thunderbird 3's ex girlfriend. she got turned into an omega sentinel and hunted neal. then went comatose and got her programming redone by charlie and eric in excalibur series dos. she just got possessed by malice. damn viral attachments.

gambit and sunfire both struck deals with apocolypse to become horsemen. and SURPRISE turned evil.
Remy shook his white hair/goth look, but shiro is still dressing up all AOA. both reason have yet to be explained.

so far we don't know why they want cable. or how they were able to take him. utter bollocks.

[Vulgar]

Y'all keep saying Mystique wouldn't shoot Rogue no matter what, but what if she was trying to kill her to save her? Mystique knows Rogue's gone a little nutty and Emma was saying that her chancers weren't good. Maybe Mystique was trying to save Rogue from the crazy. Or at least that's how I justified it.

[rwsmith]

Was very shocked by the last page! I'm not so sure that either Rogue or Cable are dead, though I could easily live without Cable.

Seems like most people could. I still doubt he's really dead, though.

[Slant]

but what if she was trying to kill her to save her?

That makes it better?

[blinkinrogue]

xmen #200 made the top 3 (though i would have liked it if it got the top spot :D ) comics for june. my bold estimate is from 180k-210K copies for issue #200.

http://www.newsarama.com/marketreport/june07sales.html

[Beast]

Seems like most people could. I still doubt he's really dead, though.
Carey pretty much outright confirmed his death when I met him yesterday. :)

[rwsmith]

Carey pretty much outright confirmed his death when I met him yesterday. :)

Really!? You got to meet him. Cool. He seems like a great guy, and he obviously has a lot of love for the franchise (even the lesser-known characters).

Did he say whether or not he'll be sticking around for awhile? Also, what exactly did he say about Cable? I'm curious just because of Axel Alonso's comments earlier in the year about wanting to make the character popular again. I wonder if that was just a red herring all along or if plans changed somewhere along the way.

xmen #200 made the top 3 (though i would have liked it if it got the top spot :D ) comics for june. my bold estimate is from 180k-210K copies for issue #200.

http://www.newsarama.com/marketreport/june07sales.html

Well, you've gotta take into account the fact that WWH #1 was the first issue of the whole event and New Avengers #31 was the big reveal about Elektra being a Skrull.

So I'd say those X-men #200 numbers were fantastic in light of that!

[Beast]

Really!? You got to meet him. Cool. He seems like a great guy, and he obviously has a lot of love for the franchise (even the lesser-known characters).

Did he say whether or not he'll be sticking around for awhile? Also, what exactly did he say about Cable? I'm curious just because of Axel Alonso's comments earlier in the year about wanting to make the character popular again. I wonder if that was just a red herring all along or if plans changed somewhere along the way.
Yeah, he was doing a signing at a Borders for his novel... "The Devil You Know". Got my X-Men #200's and Endangered Species signed as well. And yes, he's a very great guy. With a real passion for the franchise and characters. He was actually surprised that they managed to keep people guessing if it was going to be Cable, Mystique, or Rogue who died up to nearly the very end. And that with the internet it's very hard to keep things secret til the issues come out. Even mentioned people using future solicits to deduce things.

He's on the book for at least another year at the least. And he's said that he's in no hurry to leave. As for Cable, yeah... it was mostly a discussion how they did the best to hide it. Refrencing Whedon's 'Phoenix' page that was a fake leak. As well as other FF roster leaks. But that the Cable & Deadpool solicits shined a light on the fact it was probably Cable. As for Axel's comments, I assume that was intentionally misleading so people wouldn't think it was Cable. Much like with Quesada's stuff about Speedball recently.

[rwsmith]

Cool. Thanks for the info, Beast. That is pretty cool how they managed to hide the fact that it was Cable for as long as they did. But the C/D solicits did have people speculating that it might be him. Having said that, the fact that he had his own book had just as many people saying that it wouldn't be him, so I guess it worked out.

I still wonder about Alonso's comments, though. Perhaps they were a red herring all along, or perhaps he made them before Carey decided to kill Cable and then he changed his mind and decided that Mike was right and that they ought to just off him. Either way, it's good to know that it isn't just a cheap ploy to drum up some interest in the character and then bring him back three months later. I think we've had enough of that sort of thing for awhile.

Regardless, I still think he'll be back eventually. Everyone returns eventually. But I hope they keep him gone for at least a few years unless someone just has a really, really amazing idea of what to do with the character in the meantime.

Oh, and awesome news about Mike sticking around for at least another year. He's done a great job with the franchise IMO (and obviously most of the people around here would agree, I think).

[frog]

Yeah, he was doing a signing at a Borders for his novel... "The Devil You Know". Got my X-Men #200's and Endangered Species signed as well. And yes, he's a very great guy. With a real passion for the franchise and characters. He was actually surprised that they managed to keep people guessing if it was going to be Cable, Mystique, or Rogue who died up to nearly the very end. And that with the internet it's very hard to keep things secret til the issues come out. Even mentioned people using future solicits to deduce things.

He's on the book for at least another year at the least. And he's said that he's in no hurry to leave. As for Cable, yeah... it was mostly a discussion how they did the best to hide it. Refrencing Whedon's 'Phoenix' page that was a fake leak. As well as other FF roster leaks. But that the Cable & Deadpool solicits shined a light on the fact it was probably Cable. As for Axel's comments, I assume that was intentionally misleading so people wouldn't think it was Cable. Much like with Quesada's stuff about Speedball recently.

Cool! I'm in no hurry for Carey to leave either. With the sales going up I hope Marvel has the sense to keep him.

[FeminineMystique]

"OH. SORRY. THAT'D BE ME." I ABSOLUTELY ADOOOOORE REGAN! She's so awesome!

Yes she is. And I'm glad it's been confirmed that Lady Mastermind and Mystique aren't being controlled or influenced in any way and aren't altered by those weird things they had a while back. (Mummurdrai? Not sure how you spell it) but are in fact, doing this of their own free will. I'll take awesome cold blooded villainy over tedious mind control. Brainwashing is such an overused plot device and I'm glad Carey has gone on record as saying it's not being used here.
Lady Mastermind is currently my favourite member of the new Marauders, narrowly followed by Vertigo and Malice. Speaking of which, did anyone else think Malice and Lady Mastermind were having a "Moment" in this issue? It looked like Malice (In Karima's body) was playing with Lady Mastermind's hair, and the next panel we have Mastermind with a smile on her face.

Also

(well, as normal as living with a blue shapeshifter and blind precog who are lesbian lovers is ever going to get )

That, to me, would be the coolest childhood ever.

[kate-pryde]

If the intent was to hide that Cable was dead, then that was a rather major disservice since so many people don't even know that he is dead since there was no promotion whatsoever for Cable & Deadpool 42. It's one thing to keep it hidden before the issues came out. It's another thing all together to ignore that a major death happened.

I think there is a backlash over these overhyped deaths that end up irrelevant. The character isn't really dead or comes back immediately. Had they heavily promoted a death that everyone knew would be Cable, then in three months it's revealed that he isn't really dead - fans will be angry.

On the other hand, if this is suppose to be a major death and it's completely ignored, not promoted and treated as if it's a minor sub-plot point, then I'm not buying that Nate is dead.

I think Brubaker's response to the question about Nathan & Rachel and what Lowe said about the continuity with Emperor Vulcan points to him not being dead.

If the point is that the characters believe that Cable is dead, Rachel is the one that would be able to tell them otherwise. But she's conveniently out of the picture.

One of the panelist at WWLA (Andy Schmidt??) said that Cable was going to be in the spotlight in the summer and everyone was going to be talking about him. If that's the case, then in Cable & Deadpool, the next three issues have Wade on solo missions and feature Wolverine and other guest stars. I'm sure everyone will be talking about Nate there. :rolleyes:

Unless the editors have done a poor job setting up whatever's going on, there is more going on here with Cable.

Another thing I find incredibly odd is that fans haven't heard a peep out of Fabian Nicieza. Nothing about the future of Cable & Deadpool (other than he posted a few months ago that the series is going at least up to #50). Captain America dies and we have non-stop news coverage about the impact. Cable dies and no one will talk about it. WTF?

I think that points more to Nate faking his death than it being a real, Dead is Dead, death.

[DDM]

Who is Malice and what does the Maruders got to do wit anything?


Malice is a psychic entity who possesses people; she "feeds" off the negative or evil side of her victim's personality. She first appears in Uncanny X-Men #210, possessing Dazzler. The X-Men first encounter Malice in Uncanny X-Men #214. Malice's true goal is to possess Lorna Dane, Polaris, to lead the Marauders; ironically, Havok left Lorna at home thinking she will be safe in Uncanny X-Men #219. Malice lead the Marauders from Uncanny X-Men #221-222, 239-243, & X-Factor #39. After Mister Sinister's death, Malice's hold on Lorna weakens shown in Uncanny X-Men #249-250. Malice is one of Sinister's key Marauders. After Zaladane steals Lorna Dane's magnetic powers, Lorna is free of Malice, but begins to absorb negative energy, leaving her open for the Shadow King to break into the real world & slowly corrupt most of the Muir Island X-Men save Lorna Dane, Banshee & Forge...

[ClanAskani]

Seems like most people could. I still doubt he's really dead, though.

I'm holding out hope that Nathan does survive. And he does have a lot of fans who will be heartbroken if he does indeed die.

[Peeps]

who was all on the screens?

i only identified the following from left to to left bottom going right

pandemic,?, modok, sinister, rao, high evolutionary (thought that doesnt look like the mask i remember), ?, ?, Doom

[Beast]

who was all on the screens?

i only identified the following from left to to left bottom going right

pandemic,?, modok, sinister, rao, high evolutionary (thought that doesnt look like the mask i remember), ?, ?, Doom
Searching the thread is your friend.... but, since you asked so nicely. :)

1. M.O.D.O.K.
2. Dr. Doom
3. Mr. Sinister
4. Mojo
5. Pandemic
6. High-Evolutionary
7. Arnim Zola
8. Sugar Man
9. Dr. Kavita Rao

[Gene M.]

I could've sworn I posted in this thread, but the little red envelope tells me different. :D

Overall, I thought it was a good issue. Carey reintroduced the Marauders as a viable threat to the X-Men and dropped a killer (all puns intended) cliffhanger to keeps us guessing until next issue. The art was solid by both Ramos and Bachalo, with both of their versions of the characters feeling larger than life. The only thing that I wasn't a huge fan of were the colors. The intense colors on the amos portion of the story and the subdued pallete on the Bachalo pages were both solid, but it didn't visually mesh for me.

[cable guy]

Carey pretty much outright confirmed his death when I met him yesterday. :)

Well, that's a bummer.

[Peeps]

Searching the thread is your friend.... but, since you asked so nicely. :)

1. M.O.D.O.K.
2. Dr. Doom
3. Mr. Sinister
4. Mojo
5. Pandemic
6. High-Evolutionary
7. Arnim Zola
8. Sugar Man
9. Dr. Kavita Rao

i went back like 4 or 5 pages from the first mention i saw em. so i had no idea that beast actually contacted mojo. zola and sugar man are the two im not familiar with at all

plus im old, that garbage about learning about paitence, yea, thats a buncha bull :)

[rwsmith]

If the intent was to hide that Cable was dead, then that was a rather major disservice since so many people don't even know that he is dead since there was no promotion whatsoever for Cable & Deadpool 42. It's one thing to keep it hidden before the issues came out. It's another thing all together to ignore that a major death happened.

I think there is a backlash over these overhyped deaths that end up irrelevant. The character isn't really dead or comes back immediately. Had they heavily promoted a death that everyone knew would be Cable, then in three months it's revealed that he isn't really dead - fans will be angry.

On the other hand, if this is suppose to be a major death and it's completely ignored, not promoted and treated as if it's a minor sub-plot point, then I'm not buying that Nate is dead.

I think Brubaker's response to the question about Nathan & Rachel and what Lowe said about the continuity with Emperor Vulcan points to him not being dead.

If the point is that the characters believe that Cable is dead, Rachel is the one that would be able to tell them otherwise. But she's conveniently out of the picture.

One of the panelist at WWLA (Andy Schmidt??) said that Cable was going to be in the spotlight in the summer and everyone was going to be talking about him. If that's the case, then in Cable & Deadpool, the next three issues have Wade on solo missions and feature Wolverine and other guest stars. I'm sure everyone will be talking about Nate there. :rolleyes:

Unless the editors have done a poor job setting up whatever's going on, there is more going on here with Cable.

Another thing I find incredibly odd is that fans haven't heard a peep out of Fabian Nicieza. Nothing about the future of Cable & Deadpool (other than he posted a few months ago that the series is going at least up to #50). Captain America dies and we have non-stop news coverage about the impact. Cable dies and no one will talk about it. WTF?

I think that points more to Nate faking his death than it being a real, Dead is Dead, death.

Only time will tell, I guess. You make some good points, and all of them are things that I wonder about as well. Was it all a red herring? Did plans simply change? Or do they still have plans for Cable yet?

Apparently Mike Carey seems to be indicating that he is indeed dead for the foreseeable future, but he could just be trying to throw people off so that they don't expect his big return in Messiah Complex. Or he could be telling the truth and Marvel decided that Nate was expendable. Like I said, I guess we'll find out eventually.

I'm not really convinced one way or another at this point, but I'm leaning towards Mike being straight forward here and Cable actually being dead. The guy's been pretty straight up with his fans so far.

[Hi-Fi]

Of course Carey would say he'd really dead. If he wans't, would he ruin the surprise?

[rwsmith]

Exactly. Which is why I'm not really convinced that he is dead. Having said that, Carey has spoiled other things before in conversations with fans. He seems to enjoy building anticipation and buzz for his books by giving fans some truthful tidbits of what to expect, and not by putting false information out there (like Quesada has been known to do from time to time), so I lean towards him perhaps being honest here.

My guess is that he didn't want to give any Cable fans out there false hope that he might be coming back in Messiah Complex, and thus just told Beast straight up that he's gone for the foreseeable future. Having said that, I wasn't there for Beast's conversation with him, so I may be misrepresenting what was said. Beast seems pretty certain that Nate's gone for good, though, or at least as "gone for good" as one can be in a Marvel comic book.

Still, it might all be part of some long term plan for the character, designed to make him popular again (as Axel Alonso claimed to want to do when he took over as editor of the X-books). But just how long term is anyone's guess.

[Beast]

Of course Carey would say he'd really dead. If he wans't, would he ruin the surprise?
Sorry guys, he was being sincere. Cable's dead. Axel's "plans" were just misdirection.

There was no "Forseeable future", he was entirely frank about it. And even refrenced Marvel's attempts at misdirection in the past. With Astonishing X-Men's "Return of Jean" fake-out and the fake FF rosters, amongst others. Not to mention he outright said that he hated them bringing Jean back.

[rwsmith]

Thanks for the clarification, Beast. Personally it doesn't bother me. While I liked what Carey did with Nate while he had him, to me that particular character really epitomizes everything that drove me away from the X-books in the mid to late 90's.

Now, with the Marauders back and seemingly targeting convoluted chronal anomaly type characters, I believe the X-books are cleaning up some of their "dirty laundry" and are on track to becoming the "anything can happen, must read" franchise that they were in the 80's (and that the Avengers books seem to have become in recent years).

I'm keeping my fingers crossed that 'Messiah Complex' continues this trend and that the X-franchise is truly rejuvinated as a result. Honestly, the last time I was this interested in the X-men as a whole was back when Grant Morrison rebooted the franchise, and before that it was when Jim Lee was drawing them.

[Brian M.]

I kinda wanna hear from Fabian...I'm surpised no interviews have been done w/ him.

[Omega Alpha]

Well, Cable being dead doesn't mean he can't be ressurected... But, yeah, i do believe he won't be soon.

[Peeps]

Well, Cable being dead doesn't mean he can't be ressurected... But, yeah, i do believe he won't be soon.

cable = time travler

he aint dead, hes just gunna hang out in limbo if anything

[Sentinel K]

I kinda wanna hear from Fabian...I'm surpised no interviews have been done w/ him.

I doubt he's even doing any work for Marvel anymore. :(

[Nyssane]

I kinda wanna hear from Fabian...I'm surpised no interviews have been done w/ him.

I was just thinking about that earlier! I was like, "hm... there's countless Carey interviews, quite a bunch of Brubaker, but absolutely no Nicieza..." There are so many things I would ask Nicieza if I could (and I know he frequents a bunch of boards, but I'd feel bad if it weren't an interviewy type X-Position or whatnot).

[Kalen O.]

What I want to know is if all that stuff about expect big things from Cable was just misdirection, what about the stuff about Forge and Bishop? They were mentioned in the same context, so where they just thrown in for misdirection as well, or did they actually mean it with them? Lol. Like what happened with that Forge mini they teased months ago?

[kate-pryde]

Sorry guys, he was being sincere. Cable's dead. Axel's "plans" were just misdirection.


Sorry, I don't believe it. Mike Carey may say some teasers, but I don't buy that he's going to be completely honest with spoilers.

Besides, when Axel talked about his plans for Cable, that was before the X-Summit and the planning for Messiah Complex.

If Cable did fake his death and that's what Carey wants fans to believe, then that's what he's going to say.

He's not going to give away important spoilers to fans at signings, no more than J.K. Rowling is going to tell fans what happens in the next Harry Potter book.

[Sentinel K]

Sorry, I don't believe it. Mike Carey may say some teasers, but I don't buy that he's going to be completely honest with spoilers.

If Cable did fake his death and that's what Carey wants fans to believe, then that's what he's going to say.

He's not going to give away important spoilers to fans at signings, no more than J.K. Rowling is going to tell fans what happens in the next Harry Potter book.

Don't believe it either.

Cable will be back within 12 months.

Guaranteed.

[Beast]

Sorry, I don't believe it. Mike Carey may say some teasers, but I don't buy that he's going to be completely honest with spoilers.

Besides, when Axel talked about his plans for Cable, that was before the X-Summit and the planning for Messiah Complex.

If Cable did fake his death and that's what Carey wants fans to believe, then that's what he's going to say.

He's not going to give away important spoilers to fans at signings, no more than J.K. Rowling is going to tell fans what happens in the next Harry Potter book.
It wasn't before last year's 2nd X-Summit. You realize they have 2 a year, yes?

It's amazing just how with Captain America people can continue to ignore the facts.

[Red Lotus]

Don't believe it either.

Cable will be back within 12 months.

Guaranteed.

If it looks like a character is dead and then marvel doesn't use him for 12 plus months then you might as well say he is dead.

I can uder standing people saying that Cable will be back before this arc ends or in the crossover which is a part of this arc, but any time after that means there are no plans for him right now.

[kate-pryde]

Here's a quote from Joe Quesada about Axel's plans:


Joe Friday's - October 13, 2006
http://www.newsarama.com/NewJoeFridays/NewJoeFridays17.html


Q: "XChylde17" - Any chance we will see some stories coming out of Earth-4935 (the Askani timeline)? It's such an important part of Cable's character and it frequently gets referred to, plus it has potential for some really interesting stories, much like Wolverine: Origins. Also, thanks for giving me more Cable by putting him back on the X-Men, with what could be the coolest line-up ever.

JQ: Hey, XChylde17, while there are no immediate plans, Cable, Bishop, and Forge are three characters on the top of new X-overlord Axel Alonso’s list of character to bring back into the limelight



I'm not sure how "bring back into the limelight" means kill off. The X-Summit with the planning for Messiah Complex was in January 2007. From what Mike Carey has said about picking his lineup, he was using Cable as a telepath since he couldn't use Psylocke. I highly doubt he had the idea to kill of Cable. That had to be something that was an editorial decision and part of a bigger plan for Cable & Deadpool. That would have been decided by Alonso.

From what I recall, Axel Alonso took over for Mike Marts in September 2006 and immediately began an assessment of what needed to be changed.

At that time, Cable was in the spotlight in Civil War and being better received that he usually was. C&D had a pretty good boost in sales from CW as well.

My speculation at the time was that Axel would want to relaunch a new Cable title that was more of a mercenary Cable and get rid of Messiah Cable with Providence and Rumekistan, and possibly separate Cable from Deadpool.

So, what's happened so far? Providence is gone. Rumekistan is gone. Cable is a major part of the X-books and separated from Deadpool.

That seems like the beginnings of whatever Axel's plans were to put Cable back in the limelight.

There are a lot of crazy ways to bring Cable back - as an infant, as Nate Grey, in various time traveling scenerios. But all of those things are confusing and complicated. The simpliest way to reboot Cable is to have him be majorly changed from whatever happened here. He's no longer diplomate, Messiah Cable and he's now whatever Axel had plans for him to become.

[Beast]

And as we know, Quesada always tells the truth. You know, like how Speedball is dead.

[Sentinel K]

Here's a quote from Joe Quesada about Axel's plans:



I'm not sure how "bring back into the limelight" means kill off. The X-Summit with the planning for Messiah Complex was in January 2007. From what Mike Carey has said about picking his lineup, he was using Cable as a telepath since he couldn't use Psylocke. I highly doubt he had the idea to kill of Cable. That had to be something that was an editorial decision and part of a bigger plan for Cable & Deadpool. That would have been decided by Alonso.

From what I recall, Axel Alonso took over for Mike Marts in September 2006 and immediately began an assessment of what needed to be changed.

At that time, Cable was in the spotlight in Civil War and being better received that he usually was. C&D had a pretty good boost in sales from CW as well.

My speculation at the time was that Axel would want to relaunch a new Cable title that was more of a mercenary Cable and get rid of Messiah Cable with Providence and Rumekistan, and possibly separate Cable from Deadpool.

So, what's happened so far? Providence is gone. Rumekistan is gone. Cable is a major part of the X-books and separated from Deadpool.

That seems like the beginnings of whatever Axel's plans were to put Cable back in the limelight.

There are a lot of crazy ways to bring Cable back - as an infant, as Nate Grey, in various time traveling scenerios. But all of those things are confusing and complicated. The simpliest way to reboot Cable is to have him be majorly changed from whatever happened here. He's no longer diplomate, Messiah Cable and he's now whatever Axel had plans for him to become.

I agree with all this. Sounds exactly like Axel wanted. To shove Cable into the limelight with his own series.

Although, is Rumekistan gone? i can't remember. I thought he was still prime Minister.

As for his 'death', it was was never seen.

No body, no proof.

If Gambit and Sunfire could escape in time, maybe Nate could too.

He could always just bodyslide, no?

[Red Lotus]

He could always just bodyslide, no?

It was hinted that there was enough power to bodyslide one person and Cable used it to save Deadpool.

[Beast]

No. It's right there on the page that there was no power remaining for Cable to Bodyslide.

[Sentinel K]

It was hinted that there was enough power to bodyslide one person and Cable used it to save Deadpool.

Ah yeah.

I'm stumped then.



... still think he'll be back though.

[Kalen O.]

Ah yeah.

I'm stumped then.



... still think he'll be back though.

Yeah, I could easily see it. Saying they lied about the big plans for Cable doesn't exactly foster faith that they're telling the truth now. All it says ultimately is that either one or the other is misdirection, not which one is which.

[Slung]

Maybe Cable's death was the big plan they had for the character. How much bigger can you get?

[Pach!]

Maybe Cable's death was the big plan they had for the character. How much bigger can you get?

Being alive.

His death didn't really do anything, at least not yet.

[Kalen O.]

Maybe Cable's death was the big plan they had for the character. How much bigger can you get?

Well Jesus trumped his death with a resurrection, so if Cable really wants to call himself a Messiah he's gotta pick up the pace. We're just saying.

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

Maybe Cable's death was the big plan they had for the character. How much bigger can you get?

Not dying, eh. Or at least taking someone down with him.

Not that I don't think it actually was the big plan.

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

Well Jesus trumped his death with a resurrection, so if Cable really wants to call himself a Messiah he's gotta pick up the pace. We're just saying.

Good point. Those "My Messiah's bigger than yours" t-shirts just wouldn't sell otherwise, now would they?

[kate-pryde]

It's possible there are ways Cable could be bigger dead than alive. But the problem I have is that doesn't seem like anything will result from Cable's death.

He "killed" himself to protect some information that will be key to the plot, but that doesn't put Cable in the limelight. He goes from having his own title and being part of an X-team to being dead. It makes him a forgotten martyr.

Maybe none of the solicits are mentioning what will be happening as a result of Cable's death, but from the look of it, Deadpool goes on without Cable and the X-Men deal with the Mauraders.

That makes Cable's death just about as relevant & important as Banshee's. :rolleyes:


Well Jesus trumped his death with a resurrection, so if Cable really wants to call himself a Messiah he's gotta pick up the pace. We're just saying.

But isn't the "Messiah" going to be the first baby born after M-Day?

Maybe Cable is reborn as a baby, but I can't see that happening.

[Kalen O.]

But isn't the "Messiah" going to be the first baby born after M-Day?

Maybe Cable is reborn as a baby, but I can't see that happening.

Well he's been toting the Messiah label for a while now, so he's got some backtime to account for before he can even start worrying about using it for new stuff.

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

He "killed" himself to protect some information that will be key to the plot, but that doesn't put Cable in the limelight. He goes from having his own title and being part of an X-team to being dead. It makes him a forgotten martyr.

The fact that the baddies most likely *do* get to pull their big move anyway sure doesn't help either. :eek:

[kate-pryde]

The fact that the baddies most likely *do* get to pull their big move anyway sure doesn't help either. :eek:

Cable nearly always messed up and fails at what he's intending to do. :( So him pointlessly sacrificing himself and failing miserably is right up his alley. :mad:


Anyone know if solicitations for October coming out this week or next? That should be telling for Cable & Deadpool if Cable is still not mentioned what so ever.

[Slant]

Carey did say that Cable's search results on the "one minute before dawn" phrase will come about near the end of the crossover.

Maybe thats it.

[Pach!]

Cable nearly always messed up and fails at what he's intending to do. :( So him pointlessly sacrificing himself and failing miserably is right up his alley. :mad:


Anyone know if solicitations for October coming out this week or next? That should be telling for Cable & Deadpool if Cable is still not mentioned what so ever.

They do, I think Tuesday at noon? I don't think the CD will say anything though. Or maybe they will?

[CmX]

Anyone know if solicitations for October coming out this week or next? That should be telling for Cable & Deadpool if Cable is still not mentioned what so ever.

They should be out tomorrow or Tuesday. They're usually released on the net the week before the actual preview book goes on sale.

[Slung]

Maybe Cable is reborn as a baby, but I can't see that happening.

Without Jean or Maddie around, I find that highly unlikely.

[Beast]

And unlike Banshee's death... Carey has said Cyclops, etc... will be reacting to it. I believe it's in X-Men #203 or #204, once the news actually reaches the X-Men. Right now they're too busy being attacked by the Maruaders. So it's not like Banshee or Corsair's death where it's actively ignored on panel. :p

[Pach!]

And unlike Banshee's death... Carey has said Cyclops, etc... will be reacting to it. I believe it's in X-Men #203 or #204, once the news actually reaches the X-Men. Right now they're too busy being attacked by the Maruaders. So it's not like Banshee or Corsair's death where it's actively ignored on panel. :p

How is that unlike Banshee's death? We saw Syren react (or not react) to his death.

Corsair, however, is another matter.

[Beast]

How is that unlike Banshee's death? We saw Syren react (or not react) to his death.

Corsair, however, is another matter.
Banshee's death had no real signifigance other than in Deadly Genesis.

It was like... "Vulcan killed him... oh well, toss him in a grave." Yeah, we saw Siryn's reaction. If you can call it that. But the X-Office didn't even bother to make it seem important.

[Slung]

Banshee's death had no real signifigance other than in Deadly Genesis.

It was like... "Vulcan killed him... oh well, toss him in a grave." Yeah, we saw Siryn's reaction. If you can call it that. But the X-Office didn't even bother to make it seem important.

Did anyone else mourn Sean's death? I mean Sean was like Emma's only friend.

[Beast]

Did anyone else mourn Sean's death? I mean Sean was like Emma's only friend.
She was there at the one-page funeral they had for him.

He was mentioned again during the memorial for the New X-Men kids.

Hell, a kid that nobody knew got more reaction to his death (Endangered Species) than Banshee did.

[Frank]

That's weird I don't remember Cable being killed. I know that Rogue got shot but that's it.

[FeminineMystique]

He's caught in the explosion on Providence and is killed in it. Carey confirmed his death in an interview.
Sorry, I don't believe it. Mike Carey may say some teasers, but I don't buy that he's going to be completely honest with spoilers.

Besides, when Axel talked about his plans for Cable, that was before the X-Summit and the planning for Messiah Complex.

If Cable did fake his death and that's what Carey wants fans to believe, then that's what he's going to say.



Cable didn't fake his death, because he had no possible means of survival. He was badly wounded, exhausted and then right at the middle of an explosion that tore apart the building. There's no way he could have survived it.

[Crimson]

He's caught in the explosion on Providence and is killed in it. Carey confirmed his death in an interview.


Cable didn't fake his death, because he had no possible means of survival. He was badly wounded, exhausted and then right at the middle of an explosion that tore apart the building. There's no way he could have survived it.

He's a time travelling mutant who died in a issue all about teleporting.

While at the minute he's dead, to bring him back wouldn't be that hard. We'd certainly get a better explanation then "He got better".

[Pro]

From what i recall Cable has chronokinetic powers like his "sister" Rachel.
So even if he didn't teleport he could still technically be alive if he shunted himself through time.

I wonder what would happen if they pulled mutants from other timelines into this one in order to establish a new mutant bloodline. That was my first thought when the Marauders went after timetravelers.
Of course they made clear they want them dead so erm .. there goes my theory .. unless they want mutants from 1 specific timeline.

[Daithi]

I wonder what would happen if they pulled mutants from other timelines into this one in order to establish a new mutant bloodline. That was my first thought when the Marauders went after timetravelers.

Hmm maybe time-travellers still have the X-Gene? Given that Sinister can create or clone anything he wants he perhaps doesn't want another mutant population explosion and wants to keep the herd down to a minimum?

[gravling]

aye, cable's dead for now (in the same way captain america is, i guess), but i think the nature of the character suggests a fairly easy retcon somewhere down the line.

that said, i'll miss him - cable's a classic character.

[Brian M.]

aye, cable's dead for now (in the same way captain america is, i guess), but i think the nature of the character suggests a fairly easy retcon somewhere down the line.

that said, i'll miss him - cable's a classic character.

Here's a retcon, Cable was replaced by a Skrull after the HoM stuff.

[Accroître]

who was Beast talking to at the end of Endanger Species chapter 1 in X-men 200?

[Peeps]

who was Beast talking to at the end of Endanger Species chapter 1 in X-men 200?


i asked earlier, here ya go

Searching the thread is your friend.... but, since you asked so nicely. :)

1. M.O.D.O.K.
2. Dr. Doom
3. Mr. Sinister
4. Mojo
5. Pandemic
6. High-Evolutionary
7. Arnim Zola
8. Sugar Man
9. Dr. Kavita Rao

[kate-pryde]

He's caught in the explosion on Providence and is killed in it. Carey confirmed his death in an interview.


Cable didn't fake his death, because he had no possible means of survival. He was badly wounded, exhausted and then right at the middle of an explosion that tore apart the building. There's no way he could have survived it.


It's a comic. People can survive explosions in strange and wondrous ways. Cable's mom is Jean Grey, who can never truly die. And he's a Summers. Remember what Rachel told him - you're a Summers, you can do anything.

I wish that was mentioned, but the fact that Gambit called him Summers might have been a callback to that.

Cable would want the Marauders to think he was dead, since he had the information they needed. So who knows what other methods of escape he could have. Clearly this is a pivotal part in the lead-up to Messiah Complex. It's not going to be what it appeared nor is Carey going to leak major spoilers to fans and ruin whatever the big shocking surprises are going to be.

[Red Lotus]

It's a comic. People can survive explosions in strange and wondrous ways. Cable's mom is Jean Grey, who can never truly die. And he's a Summers. Remember what Rachel told him - you're a Summers, you can do anything.

I wish that was mentioned, but the fact that Gambit called him Summers might have been a callback to that.

Cable would want the Marauders to think he was dead, since he had the information they needed. So who knows what other methods of escape he could have. Clearly this is a pivotal part in the lead-up to Messiah Complex. It's not going to be what it appeared nor is Carey going to leak major spoilers to fans and ruin whatever the big shocking surprises are going to be.

I dont think Marvel would have said that an X-men was going to die. if that was the case, they could have said just hint about some thing happen to Cable.

[Accroître]

i asked earlier, here ya go

Thanks...

I thought Sugar Man died a year or so ago?

[Beast]

Thanks...

I thought Sugar Man died a year or so ago?
He did. But when Carey asked the X-Office, they said he was alive.

So there are either plans elsewhere for him. Or it's simply a mistake.

Easiest way to pass it off.... blame Wanda. :D

[kate-pryde]

I dont think Marvel would have said that an X-men was going to die. if that was the case, they could have said just hint about some thing happen to Cable.

There has been so little hype for this death that I see it as Marvel trying to down play it. Clearly there is the hype that Rogue may die. Meanwhile, Cable's death appears to be a very minor side plotline.

Wade, Irene and Domino may assume Cable died, but the X-Men aren't going to know for an extended period of time since they have their own problems to deal with, and there will be little time to search Providence for Nathan's body or try to see if he escaped some other way.

Cable has been able to block telepaths from locating him, so Cerebra, Xavier and Emma not being able to find him means nothing. Rachel's in space, so that probably takes her out of the equation.

Gambit may brag to the X-Men about killing Cable, but are they going to believe him? It's not like Cable hasn't been believed dead before and returned.

Marvel wants everyone to believe that the death is going to be Rogue, since that's the bigger shocker. But if Cable was dead, then there should be a much better deal - not Cable & Deadpool turning into Deadpool & Wolverine.

Granted, Banshee's death was ignored pretty much everywhere except Deadly Genesis and Peter David wasn't even told it was going to happen.

But as Beast pointed out, some random mutant kid gets a whole special about his funeral. Banshee gets one page.

You'd assume that the solicitations would be hyping the fall-out from the big character death, but it seems like everyone goes on their merry way and Cable's death is insignificant.

It's not like he died to stop the Marauders or that his death accomplished much of anything. Had he died at the end of Messiah Complex to save mutantkind or something like that, it would be a major sacrifice. But to die at the beginning of the story in what seems to be completely meaningless and pointless way?!? WTF?

I don't see that as being any way a real death. It seems like a faked death that Marvel wants to avoid anyone getting bent out of shape when its revealed that Cable isn't really dead.

[Beast]

So little hype? Other than the constant statements that an X-Men DIES in X-Men #200. And that said death would cause a major impact once it comes to light. The fact that it was made clear that Cable didn't have an out for surviving the death. No power left to bodyslide. No mutant powers of telepathy or telekenisis, or electronic substitute to shield himself from the explosion. Already badly wounded with numerous broken bones pressing on his lungs from the attack by Gambit and Sunfire before the explosion. He's dead.

[rwsmith]

I doubt Marvel would make that big a deal out of Cable dying. He's not that popular anymore, and his book sells very poorly. Plus, it's not like he's anywhere close to being an iconic character like Captain America or even Jean Grey, so I can believe that the little bit of hype we got about this death was deemed sufficient by Marvel.

[Beast]

And what do you mean his death was pointless? He sacrificed himself to prevent Gambit and Sunfire from gaining infornation about the future that could be used by Sinister. Also like we've been told, the search that Cable had the Professor run before his death would come into play at some point. So it's pretty likely that the X-Men recover his body at some point. Especially if the Professor's search is going to come into play.

[rwsmith]

When people say, "Character X's death was totally pointless," what they really mean is, "I liked Character X and didn't want him/her to die."

It's okay, we've all felt that way at some point. In fact, I bet Brian feels that way about Jean's latest death right now!

[kate-pryde]

Even if Cable stops Gambit & Sunfire from getting that information, it's not like he's died to stop Sinister's plans or to stop the Marauders from whatever they are doing.

If Marauders' return is stopped in the first issue they re-appear in, it's rather pointless. Clearly they are going to become major villains and whatever Cable did may have set them back temporarily, but it didn't stop them. It didn't take out anyone else. They'll probably get the information they need from someone else or the lack of that information will make the Marauders' task more difficult.

This is just part one of a much larger story. By the end of it, Cable's death is going to be insignificant.

The major source of the hype for the death in X-Men #200 was Wizard Magazine with their article with the list of things happening.

The major hype has been for Endangered Species and the funeral of the random mutant kid. There wasn't any hype for Cable & Deadpool #42. No ads for it in X-Men #200, nothing promoting it. No previews. No interviews with Fabian. Nada. It's like it was irrelevant.

So, either random unknown mutant kids rate higher than Cable, or Marvel is downplaying Cable's death.

What would people have thought that if after Captain America's death, his book became focused on Bucky and Wolverine? Maybe Cable's not as popular as he used to be, but I'd expect at least a couple tribute issues about Cable's death in his own title. Maybe the covers aren't released in the solicits and the descriptions are cryptic.

But the way it was handled makes me think that they don't want to overdo the hype of Cable's death and then have people whining that he stayed dead all of a couple of months.

[Beast]

Because Cable's death isn't known to the X-Men as of yet. How hard is that to get?

It will be addressed and dealt with. But it's not like it was ignored. Other than Deadpool, noone else is aware.

And no, we were told several times that the Cable & Deadpool issues were important to the story.

[Nyssane]

When people say, "Character X's death was totally pointless," what they really mean is, "I liked Character X and didn't want him/her to die."

It's okay, we've all felt that way at some point. In fact, I bet Brian feels that way about Jean's latest death right now!

So you're saying when a character dies off-panel or in a completely ridiculous manner (a la the Bloodsport, the Neverland Camps, or any other of Tieri's awful plot devices to kill C-List characters), it's not pointless? Because it is -- there's no reason to waste perfectly good potential that some writer might see somewhere down the line just to advance your story and have some shock value. A writer could easily just create new characters to kill off if they want to show death. And yeah, it is because people like the characters. Every character has a fan, and I'm sure you wouldn't like it if Wolverine got chumped out and killed in some nonsensical manner.

[Hi-Fi]

Whatever. Rogue is NOT dead!

[kate-pryde]

By the time the X-Men realize Cable is dead, they're going to be too involved in whatever is going on in Messiah Complex to deal with it. Sam is the only one that's going to be really impacted.

Scott & Cable have been so distant that it's not going to have much of an impact. And after the impact of Corsair's death on Scott was ignored, I have very little faith that even Carey will deal with the impact that it has on Scott.

Most likely it's going to be the X-Men realizing Cable died to protect some information that they now desperately need and that's the only way Cable's death is going to be relevant. It's too early in the story for Cable to have done anything significant. He's only stalled whatever is coming, not stopped it. And that's what I call a pointless death for a major character.

[Beast]

Nyssane has a point. Off panel deaths are pointless. See Risque's death in NXM. Deaths simply to make the new "Big Bad" more evil are pointless. See Darkstar's death in NXM. Or Banshee's death in DG. But I don't see Cable's death as pointless. He sacrificed himself to protect valuable information from falling into enemy hands. He died a hero. Trying to protect information that could be used to manipulate future events. Not as cannon fodder.

[Hi-Fi]

Mike already said we'll see Cyclops reaction in #204. And I'm pretty sure Sam will not be happy as well.

But I still think he's alive. :D

Yeah, I'm THAT stubborn!

[Slant]

Most likely it's going to be the X-Men realizing Cable died to protect some information that they now desperately need and that's the only way Cable's death is going to be relevant. It's too early in the story for Cable to have done anything significant. He's only stalled whatever is coming, not stopped it. And that's what I call a pointless death for a major character.

Carey already said that the "one minute before dawn" search will come into play later on. Until that happens, we can't really speculate.

[Beast]

By the time the X-Men realize Cable is dead, they're going to be too involved in whatever is going on in Messiah Complex to deal with it. Sam is the only one that's going to be really impacted.

Scott & Cable have been so distant that it's not going to have much of an impact. And after the impact of Corsair's death on Scott was ignored, I have very little faith that even Carey will deal with the impact that it has on Scott.

Most likely it's going to be the X-Men realizing Cable died to protect some information that they now desperately need and that's the only way Cable's death is going to be relevant. It's too early in the story for Cable to have done anything significant. He's only stalled whatever is coming, not stopped it. And that's what I call a pointless death for a major character.
From the sound of it, they find out about it before Messiah Complex. In fact, from the sound of it... his death is what kick starts some major events in Messiah Complex. Such as Cyclops taking charge and leading the offensive against Sinister and his forces. Everything has been taken from him. Jean. Corsair. Cable. And his brother and daughter are off in another galaxy, facing a threat from another brother. It's pushing Cyclops from a reactive role into a proactive role. And that's hardly a pointless death. It's a springboard for major change.

[Red Lotus]

There has been so little hype for this death that I see it as Marvel trying to down play it. Clearly there is the hype that Rogue may die. Meanwhile, Cable's death appears to be a very minor side plotline.

They told us months ago that an X-men would die. Was there any hype for Cyclops/Apocalypse thing, they are telling us that some one wont make it back from Breakworld off the Astonishing X-Men, but outside of that and much like 200 there isn't any hype about who it might be. Cable death isn't going to get a lot of hype, he's at most a second tier X-men.


Gambit may brag to the X-Men about killing Cable, but are they going to believe him? It's not like Cable hasn't been believed dead before and returned.

This happens all the time. But if a character is killed off or it looks like they are killed off and they are not use for a year or more then there is no difference. The only time there is a difference is if that character dies and returns in the same arc.

You'd assume that the solicitations would be hyping the fall-out from the big character death, but it seems like everyone goes on their merry way and Cable's death is insignificant.

Cable and Deadpool has been a Deadpool book for the past few months and once Cable is gone then they are going to move Deadpool to his next story. Plus there is so much other stuff going on in X-men right now that Cable death is insignificant. How can they hype his death when the X-men are still under attack. But Carey did say that we would see Cyclops reaction to Cable death in 204.

It's not like he died to stop the Marauders or that his death accomplished much of anything. Had he died at the end of Messiah Complex to save mutantkind or something like that, it would be a major sacrifice. But to die at the beginning of the story in what seems to be completely meaningless and pointless way?!? WTF?

Did you read Cable and Deadpool 42. The whole book was about that. Who is to say that his death was pointless. Its way to early to say that.

[kate-pryde]

I'm hoping more is going on here than we saw with Cable's "death", but there would have been far better ways for Cable to handle that situation then blowing himself up.

Wouldn't telling the X-Men about what he knew about "one minute before dawn" and warning them be better?

The Marauders are at the beginning of whatever it is that they're doing that relates to the information they needed from Cable and the Professor. They're up to something and Cable stalled them and prevented from from learning something. He didn't stop them. He only delayed them. Otherwise the rest of the arc and the crossover are going to be very boring since Cable's stopped the bad guys already. That's the same as being cannon fodder because in the end, his death can't have accomplished anything significant since there is a much larger story going on here.

[Beast]

I'm hoping more is going on here than we saw with Cable's "death", but there would have been far better ways for Cable to handle that situation then blowing himself up.

Wouldn't telling the X-Men about what he knew about "one minute before dawn" and warning them be better?

The Marauders are at the beginning of whatever it is that they're doing that relates to the information they needed from Cable and the Professor. They're up to something and Cable stalled them and prevented from from learning something. He didn't stop them. He only delayed them. Otherwise the rest of the arc and the crossover are going to be very boring since Cable's stopped the bad guys already. That's the same as being cannon fodder because in the end, his death can't have accomplished anything significant since there is a much larger story going on here.
No. There wasn't. Cable rushed to the memory core hoping to have time to destroy the data. However Gambit and Sunfire were too hot on his heels thanks to his injuries, and he didn't have time to actually do it. So much like that woman in Cable's memories who sacrificed herself to destroy the data to keep it out of Apocalypse's hands... Cable did the same. Sacrificing himself in the process to ensure the data stayed out of Sinister's hands.

[kate-pryde]

Cable dies to prevent Sinister from getting data. How lame is that? Seriously. It's not like he stopped Sinister or Gambit or at least took some of them with him.

If you look at what others have sacrificed for Cable and what he was suppose to represent, then how can that data be more important than Cable? Just think how many thousands of Askani died to protect baby Nate.

Unless Carey wants to retcon everything that has been Cable's mission, he's not going to toss away everything.

And I bet that whatever this stupid thing he died for becomes irrelevant in less than a year.

[Beast]

Cable dies to prevent Sinister from getting data. How lame is that? Seriously. It's not like he stopped Sinister or Gambit or at least took some of them with him.

If you look at what others have sacrificed for Cable and what he was suppose to represent, then how can that data be more important than Cable? Just think how many thousands of Askani died to protect baby Nate.

Unless Carey wants to retcon everything that has been Cable's mission, he's not going to toss away everything.

And I bet that whatever this stupid thing he died for becomes irrelevant in less than a year.
I take it you've never seen a time travel movie before. How about Back to the Future 2 as a perfect example. It's not like it was any run of the mill data. Something you could go look up online, or what have you. This was data about future events. A history book of things to come. If it falls into the wrong hands, it can be used to manipulate and gain an unfair advantage of power. Why do you think Cable needed to protect it so bad.

Cable's mission? His mission was to stop Apocalypse, yes? To protect the future. He was protecting the future by destroying the data. To him it's history, but to others it's still a malliable future. Access to that data is a danger. Much like anything that spoke of future events was always a danger.

As for Cable's purpose of stopping Apocalypse? You mean the same villain who he finally defeated... and then was stupid enough to bring back because the mutant community needed a villain that would unite them. His purpose and his point of existance stopped being relevant when he did that anyway.

[kate-pryde]

The problem is that Cable doesn't know the future and doesn't know what is going to happen. His future has been destroyed. Too many things have happened to change the events of his future.

If he had information that was so damaging, why was he keeping it and didn't destroy it before someone could try to steal it?

[Beast]

The problem is that Cable doesn't know the future and doesn't know what is going to happen. His future has been destroyed. Too many things have happened to change the events of his future.

If he had information that was so damaging, why was he keeping it and didn't destroy it before someone could try to steal it?
Cable knows enough of the future that could be, that his data is too inmportant for it to fall into enemy hands. It doesn't matter if his specific future has been destroyed. The events leading up to are likely just as valid.

As for why he was keeping the information? Because it's valuable information about the future. After all, he's still trying to protect the future right. He would have to have access to information in order to do it.

[rwsmith]

So you're saying when a character dies off-panel or in a completely ridiculous manner (a la the Bloodsport, the Neverland Camps, or any other of Tieri's awful plot devices to kill C-List characters), it's not pointless? Because it is -- there's no reason to waste perfectly good potential that some writer might see somewhere down the line just to advance your story and have some shock value. A writer could easily just create new characters to kill off if they want to show death. And yeah, it is because people like the characters. Every character has a fan, and I'm sure you wouldn't like it if Wolverine got chumped out and killed in some nonsensical manner.

My point exactly! You're right, I wouldn't like it at all. In fact, I would probably run around calling it a "pointless death." But every death has a point, even if it's just something as small as showing what a powerful threat some new villain is supposed to be. Might be lame, but it's not pointless.

[Canemacar]

Carey has said that theres more to Cable's death scene that we didn't see in #200 (like what the results of his search were). Wait until we know everything before claiming so-and-so had a lame death.

[NoChildren]

Honestly one of the worst issues of any comic I've ever read. Every character acting ridiculously out of character and often in contrast to decades of development. The terrible faux-Manga artwork. Rogue and Mystique depicted as being the same age. Iceman and Mystique "getting it on." Cable (a Gen-X/Image era holdover that should have been written out of the books 10 years ago).

Just completely embarrassing.

[Kalen O.]

I don't understand why its such a big deal if some people choose to think there's more to Cable's death than we see here, or that he might still come back. We've all heard what Carey and Marvel have said by now, and if some people still want to think there's more going on with Cable, what's the harm? Its not like Marvel and its writers didn't lie about the big plans for Cable in the first place, let alone produce whole pages of artwork to make people think it was Jean returning in Astonishing. Just saying Carey has said Cable's dead and that's it isn't anything anyone doesn't already know by now. People still choose to speculate on how or why he'll come back....so what?

When he doesn't, you can always say I told you so. And on the offchance he does, they all can say I told you so. Either way, someone gets to say told you so, and that's always fun!

[Beast]

Honestly one of the worst issues of any comic I've ever read. Every character acting ridiculously out of character and often in contrast to decades of development. The terrible faux-Manga artwork. Rogue and Mystique depicted as being the same age. Iceman and Mystique "getting it on." Cable (a Gen-X/Image era holdover that should have been written out of the books 10 years ago).

Just completely embarrassing.
How was anyone acting out of character? You know, without examples that's a pretty weak argument all around. And where were Mystique and Rogue depicted as being the same age? For cripes sake it even showed Mystique with Rogue when she was a kid. As for Iceman and Mystique, did you not read the build-up to their relationship? As for Cable, you should be happy then... since he's dead.

[Kalen O.]

Honestly one of the worst issues of any comic I've ever read. Every character acting ridiculously out of character and often in contrast to decades of development. The terrible faux-Manga artwork. Rogue and Mystique depicted as being the same age. Iceman and Mystique "getting it on." Cable (a Gen-X/Image era holdover that should have been written out of the books 10 years ago).

Just completely embarrassing.

Not that the issue didn't have any flaws, but if this was one of the worst issues of any comic you've ever read, I wanna read what you're reading, lol!

[cable guy]

Honestly one of the worst issues of any comic I've ever read. Every character acting ridiculously out of character and often in contrast to decades of development. The terrible faux-Manga artwork. Rogue and Mystique depicted as being the same age. Iceman and Mystique "getting it on." Cable (a Gen-X/Image era holdover that should have been written out of the books 10 years ago).

Just completely embarrassing.

Are you being serious?

[Peeps]

about rogue and mystique being the same age....



shes a shape shifter

[blinkinrogue]

1
329.75
WORLD WAR HULK #1 (Of 5) WWH*
$3.99
MAR
178,408

2
297.41
NEW AVENGERS #31 CWI
$2.99
MAR
160,911

3
252.61
X-MEN #200*
$3.99
MAR
136,672

4
247.59
FALLEN SON DEATH O/CAPTAIN AMERICA SPIDER-MAN
$2.99
MAR
133,956

5
244.14
DARK TOWER GUNSLINGER BORN #5 (Of 7)*
$3.99
MAR
132,090

6
238.92
JUSTICE LEAGUE O/AMERICA #10*
$2.99
DC
129,265

7
207.88
JUSTICE #12 (Of 12)*
$3.99
DC
112,471

8
200.14
AMAZING SPIDER-MAN #541
$2.99
MAR
108,284

9
197.64
INCREDIBLE HULK #107 WWH
$2.99
MAR
106,931

10
189.32
BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER #4
$2.99
DAR
102,430

11
183.18
CAPTAIN AMERICA #27
$2.99
MAR
99,108

12
170.67
AVENGERS INITIATIVE #3 CWI
$2.99
MAR
92,339

13
162.6
X-MEN ENDANGERED SPECIES ONE-SHOT
$3.99
MAR
87,973

i missed out on my estimates, but its good to see xmen 200 almost doubling in sales. great job mike!

[Beast]

Nice numbers on X-Men #200 and Endangered Species. :)

Hopefully the sales boost for X-Men sticks around at least a bit.

[FeminineMystique]

Cable's mom is Jean Grey, who can never truly die.She looks pretty dead to me, right now. And to those who said that Cable should take a villain with him, like Sinister or Gambit, I disagree...mainly because I'd rather have Cable dead than Sinister or Gambit, who are, in my opinion, much cooler than Gambit.

Honestly one of the worst issues of any comic I've ever read. Every character acting ridiculously out of character and often in contrast to decades of development. The terrible faux-Manga artwork. Rogue and Mystique depicted as being the same age. Iceman and Mystique "getting it on." Cable (a Gen-X/Image era holdover that should have been written out of the books 10 years ago).

Just completely embarrassing.


I suggest the poster who wrote this change their user name from "NoChildren" to NoBrain. Personally, I thought this was an excellent issue and I can't wait to see how the rest of it plays out. And as someone has already pointed out, Mystiwue appeared to be Rogue's age because she's a shape shifter. She can look however young or old she wants. Hell, she's turned into a man more than once, you think she can't make herself look younger?