JLAvengers League: Lex vs. Mike Smash!/ragnarok_2012

[Sean Whitmore]

Welcome to another match of the 2007 JLAvengers League! The League is a large-scale series of battles—a tournament—where posters draft teams and pit their teams against that of other posters, and you vote to decide who wins. When voting, please consider the strategies the players have written, rather than just the team's roster.

Each match takes place in a different locale from the Marvel or DC Universe. The teams begin 100 yards away from each other. Each character is depicted as they were in the JLA/Avengers mini series (with few exceptions), and the characters have to act in character (meaning that the heroes cannot kill if they aren't normally wont to do so)

If you have any questions about the strategies, please feel free to post these questions here, and the players will answer. The match will last twenty-four hours. After that time period, the player with the largest number of votes wins.

This match takes place in the DCU's Flash Museum. Mike Smash!/ragnarok_2012 are defending the Spear of Destiny.

NOTE - For your vote to count, you must have a post count of no lower than fifty.

Lex: Hourman, Graviton, Captain Marvel, (DC) Mace Windu, Invisible Woman, Zauriel, Triathlon

Mike Smash!/ragnarok_2012: Sinestro, Hulk, Felix Faust, Black Alice, Namor, Mary Marvel, Terrax

[Sean Whitmore]

Lex's strategy:

Part 1 (All happening at the same time):

- One of the first things Mike and Rags will probably do is have Black Alice steal Captain Marvel's powers. So Captain Marvel won't move at all at the beginning. He'll wait until she starts to steal his powers. The second she does, he yells "SHAZAM!" and pulls down as much of the wizard's lightning as he can. This is to pump as much power into Alice as possible while she's grabbing Cap's powers. Alice is still an inexperienced kid, so I think dumping all the power on her at once will be overwhelming. If Alice doesn't get overwhelmed, then Cap will take the power loss and wait for an opportunity to get near Mary Marvel so he can jumpstart his powers back up (he did that once using Black Adam to jumpstart his powers in an issue of JSA). And if Alice for some reason doesn't try to steal Cap's powers, then he'll just attack Terrax.

- Mace Windu grabs Zauriel and uses his Force Speed to zip over to where Sinestro is (or where his constructs are). He and Zauriel will use their swords of light and fire to cut through any construct and shield Sinestro creates. Zauriel will stay on the ground in case Alice steals his powers. If she does, he should still have his armor and sword.

- Hourman activates his Hour of Power and uses his Time Vision to regress Hulk back to a point in his personal timeline before Dr. Bruce Banner was bombarded with Gamma radiation. This will neutralize Hulk's threat for the next 60 minutes. Hourman will also use his ability to step between picoseconds to juke and jive (dodge) any attacks.

- Graviton uses a gravity force field to block any incoming attack right away. He also generates a strong gravitational field on the ceiling of the hall both teams are in. The field is designed to pull anything it can up to the ceiling. It should be strong enough to pull up Hulk/Banner, Felix Faust, Black Alice, Namor and Mary Marvel (I doubt this will effect Sinestro or Terrax because they travel in space all the time). Plus it will pull up any objects in the hall (it's a museum, so they probably have a bunch of crap around there). The objects should knock out at least Alice and Faust. Namor and Mary will be able to struggle, but not enough to break free of the powerful field. Also Graviton will prevent the grav-field from effecting anyone on my team. And if Alice has managed to steal Captain Marvel's powers, then Graviton will use his gravity powers to bring Mary Marvel to where Billy is so he can jumpstart his powers off of her. Graviton has been able to perform multiple tasks at once before, so I have no doubts that he'll be able to pull all of that off.

- Invisible Woman covers Triathlon's body in one of her invisible shields. She flies him like Superman at Terrax and Triathlon starts to pummel him. Terrax can travel faster than light speed in space, but I'm guesing that he's as fast as a normal big, strong guy in a battle. So Triathlon's speed combined with Sue's shield will be able to keep him distracted. And if she has to, she'll also create small shields to defend herself with, but she's mostly concentraiting on Triathlon.

Part 2:

- Graviton continues to hold those characters up on the ceiling.

- Captain Marvel grabs Mary Marvel (either from the ceiling or from wherever she is). He makes sure her mouth is covered and says "Shazam!" This will transform them both back to Billy and Mary Batson. Billy will keep his hand over his sister's mouth so she can't say her magic word anymore.

- Hourman uses his Time Vision to regress Sinestro back to when he was a Green Lantern. And Green Lanterns, at that time, were all weak against the color yellow (this is before GLs learned to overcome their fears and become immune to that weakness). So Hourman headbutts whatever shield/construct Sinestro makes with his yellow face. Then he uses his super strength to punch Sinestro out.

- Mace Windu and Zauriel join Triathlon and Sue in the fight against Terrax. They both attempt to seperate Terrax from his ax. They're still lacking the power to defeat him, so they want to distract him a little bit longer.

Part 3:

- Graviton discontinues the gravity field on the ceiling, but continues to hold onto Namor with a new gravity field. This releases Banner, Alice and Faust who all fall to the floor unconscious. Graviton positions Namor as if he's a baseball bat. In fact, he begins using Namor as a baseball bat against Terrax. This will continue to distract Terrax and hopefully knock out Namor. I mean, he's hitting a cosmically powered being with his head. That has to do damage to Namor.

- With Namor knocked out, that leaves Terrax. All of the characters who were fighting him scatter and leave him by himself. And then suddenly Hourman's timeship comes crashing through the museum wall with enough force to finally knock out Terrax.

Hopefully that did it.

[Sean Whitmore]

Mike Smash!/ragnarok_2012's strategy:

IMMEDIATELY:

-Felix Faust immediately forms a defensive magical field around his teammates, screening out tachyon energy and time distortion. This should protect them from rapid youth/aging or any speed distortion that Hourman might attempt right out of the gate.

-Terrax uses his cosmic axe to form a spherical physical force field around his teammates, but not himself. He’ll also attune the field to absorb any tachyon/time distrortion energy around them, making Faust’s job a little easier. Terrax is able to absorb any form of energy using his axe. This would include any gravitic attacks launched by Graviton or any of Sue Richards’ invisible constructs. He will stay inside of Faust’s magical field, but outside of his own force field so that he can use his force blasts and earth manipulation to fight off anyone attempting to speedblitz.

- Sinestro immediately uses his power ring and pours his full into generating a MASSIVE EMP blast beginning outside of Terrax’s shield that will spread to the entirety of the Flash Museum. This should disable any electronic items in any of the display cases like Captain Cold’s guns, any electronic weapons of Captain Boomerang…etc. It will also play havoc with the circuits and internal nanobots of android Hourman and take him out, at least temporarily. We would wager that he’d be down for at least a minute or two, while he reboots. This EMP should also destroy the internal circuitry of Mace Windu’s lightsaber. Terrax’ axe and Sinestro’s ring have no internal circuits or electronic moving parts and are therefore immune to EMP.

- Black Alice immediately steals the magic-based powers of Captain Marvel and Zauriel (she stole the Spectre’s power once and they have the same basic power source). This should give her all of their powers, plus give her wings and a replica of Zauriel’s flaming sword and armor. Captain Marvel will be reduced to Billy Batson and Zauriel will be powerless, wingless and unarmed. This should only take a second or two.

- The Incredible Hulk, Namor and Mary Marvel will stand guard around both Faust (maintaining his shield spell) and Alice (stealing magical powers). Given Mary’s speed – even at a reduced level – she should still be faster than either Windu or Triathlon if they decide to try and speedblitz us. I would argue that Namor would be able to match Triathlon’s speed as well. Hulk has also been surprisingly effective against speedsters and can smash the ground under them if they attack.

ROUND ONE:

-Felix Faust will maintain the anti-tachyon field spell, while calling upon the dark demonic forces of the DC Universe (he probably has them on speed dial) and calls them to bend the mind, body and soul of Graviton to his will. Allow him inside Gravitron’s head to see through his eyes and control his body and powers. This is a major spell and will take the usual 15-30 seconds. Once successful, he will immediately use Gravitron’s energy and gravitational powers to rip Hourman’s android body to shreds. If Sinestro’s EMP was successful – and we think it will be – this should take out Hourman for at least the hour or so it will take for his body’s nanobots to rebuild him and take him out of the fight altogether. If the EMP was unsuccessful, this should be a surprise attack from an ally and should take Hourman unaware and give him little opportunity to defend himself. Once Hourman is down, his second target would be the Invisible Woman.

-In the confusion of Graviton’s attack, Sinestro will use his ring to lock onto our opponent’s team’s location in the Museum if they are out of sight and leading an all-out charge on our opponents. Sinestro will also carry the Hulk behind him in a yellow platform. When they reach the other team, he will drop the Hulk and immediately aggressively target the Invisible Woman with all number of ever-adapting yellow energy constructs to counter hers. If she disappears, he will use his ring to find her and keeping himself well-shielded. It’s worth noting that any attacks on Sue’s shields cause her physical pain and Sinestro isn’t afraid to hurt a woman. Sinestro will also use his ring to auto-detect and illuminate her invisible force field constructs.

The Incredible Hulk will land hard and slam his hands together and bombard Invisible Woman with his massive sonic thunderclap and pound on her defenses with his fists or any nearby objects like a statue of the Flash. The longer his assault continues and the angrier he gets, the more devastating it’s likely to be. In the unlikely event that Graviton uses his gravity powers to try to immobilize the Hulk, we think the Hulk could eventually break out of it, after getting angry enough. This is the monster who moved the Blob and stopped the Juggernaut in the past. His career has been one moment after another of overpowering unbeatable obstacles.

-Namor, Mary Marvel and Black Alice (wielding the power of both Zauriel and Shazam) will quickly target Billy Batson, an unarmed Mace Windu and the non-powered Zauriel for quick knockout blows. Even unarmed, Windu is easily the most dangerous of the three and should he be the last one standing, Namor, Mary and Alice will converge on him and should take him down.

-And should Windu’s lightsaber somehow survive the EMP - and we doubt it would - Black Alice does have her own flaming sword now.

-Terrax will remain behind as Faust’s guard and will maintain his force field around Faust (still controlling Graviton), while prepared to use his earth manipulation powers or cosmic blasts from his axe to fell any attackers who try to target Faust or who get too close.

ROUND TWO:

At this point the only people POSSIBLY standing on my opponent’s team will be Sue Richards and the Graviton controlled by our Felix Faust.

-Felix Faust will direct Graviton to turn his full attention to Invisible Woman, if he hasn’t already, joining Sinestro and the Hulk’s hard offense. Once she is down, Faust will give Graviton’s mind a hard zap and knock him out.

-Terrax will continue to guard Faust in the way that he has so far….just in case

-Namor, Mary Marvel and Black Alice will join the attack on the Invisible Woman and her shields until she falls.

NOTE:

It’s worth noting that the characters on our team – with the obvious exception of Mary Marvel – are all anti-heroes and villains and are all willing to fight fairly aggressively (and most will fight dirty). Some are even willing to kill or be cruel, so that might perhaps give some of them an edge in this battle against foes like the Hourman, Triathlon or Sue Richards, who simply aren’t as ruthless. And Mace Windu will have to be mindful of his own actions and the threat of the Dark Side of the Force.

[Mike Smash!]

- One of the first things Mike and Rags will probably do is have Black Alice steal Captain Marvel's powers. So Captain Marvel won't move at all at the beginning. He'll wait until she starts to steal his powers. The second she does, he yells "SHAZAM!" and pulls down as much of the wizard's lightning as he can. This is to pump as much power into Alice as possible while she's grabbing Cap's powers. Alice is still an inexperienced kid, so I think dumping all the power on her at once will be overwhelming. If Alice doesn't get overwhelmed, then Cap will take the power loss and wait for an opportunity to get near Mary Marvel so he can jumpstart his powers back up (he did that once using Black Adam to jumpstart his powers in an issue of JSA). And if Alice for some reason doesn't try to steal Cap's powers, then he'll just attack Terrax.

I don't think this tactic will work. Alice has successfully stolen power from the Spectre before and had not been overwhelmed by it. Oh, and Alice stole Zauriel's power too.

But very creative...:)



- Invisible Woman covers Triathlon's body in one of her invisible shields. She flies him like Superman at Terrax and Triathlon starts to pummel him. Terrax can travel faster than light speed in space, but I'm guesing that he's as fast as a normal big, strong guy in a battle. So Triathlon's speed combined with Sue's shield will be able to keep him distracted. And if she has to, she'll also create small shields to defend herself with, but she's mostly concentraiting on Triathlon.Terrax still has superspeed within atmosphere and could probably match Captain Marvel for speed. I mean, the guy fights the Silver Surfer on a semi-regular basis.

[Lex]

Great strat, guys!


I don't think this tactic will work. Alice has successfully stolen power from the Spectre before and had not been overwhelmed by it.
That's because she intended to steal Spectre's powers. Here, she intends to steal Captain Marvel's and Zauriel's powers. I think she's inexperienced enough to be surprised and overwhelmed by the extra power I'm pumping into her (that sounded bad).


Terrax still has superspeed within atmosphere and could probably match Captain Marvel for speed. I mean, the guy fights the Silver Surfer on a semi-regular basis.
Traveling speed, yes. But speed when it comes to reflexes in a fight? Personally, I would think Triathlon has him beat there.

[Kara Zor El]

Two very well thought out and imaginitive strats guys. Well done. i read Lex's first and was like - here's the winner and then read Mike's and was like - here's the winner.

[Lex]

-Felix Faust immediately forms a defensive magical field around his teammates, screening out tachyon energy and time distortion. This should protect them from rapid youth/aging or any speed distortion that Hourman might attempt right out of the gate.

-Terrax uses his cosmic axe to form a spherical physical force field around his teammates, but not himself. He’ll also attune the field to absorb any tachyon/time distrortion energy around them, making Faust’s job a little easier. Terrax is able to absorb any form of energy using his axe. This would include any gravitic attacks launched by Graviton or any of Sue Richards’ invisible constructs. He will stay inside of Faust’s magical field, but outside of his own force field so that he can use his force blasts and earth manipulation to fight off anyone attempting to speedblitz.
Good idea to create shields that screen out time powers. They might have also stopped Graviton too if he had targeted your team directly. But he directs his powers to the ceiling. Then he lets the force of gravity do its thing on your team. And that's something the shield won't be able to block. The shields would probably go with them to the ceiling, but Faust's would drop when he hits the ceiling and Terrax will be too distracted by Triathlon and Sue to keep his up.

And since Hulk doesn't attack my team directly in the first part, there's no hurry and Hourman will just wait for the shields to drop before using his Time Vision.


- Sinestro immediately uses his power ring and pours his full into generating a MASSIVE EMP blast beginning outside of Terrax’s shield that will spread to the entirety of the Flash Museum. This should disable any electronic items in any of the display cases like Captain Cold’s guns, any electronic weapons of Captain Boomerang…etc. It will also play havoc with the circuits and internal nanobots of android Hourman and take him out, at least temporarily. We would wager that he’d be down for at least a minute or two, while he reboots. This EMP should also destroy the internal circuitry of Mace Windu’s lightsaber. Terrax’ axe and Sinestro’s ring have no internal circuits or electronic moving parts and are therefore immune to EMP.
First, Hourman is a machine colony from the year 85,271 AD. Machines of that era have moved beyond being effected by EMPs. Plus, during Hourman's Hour of Power, he has invulnerablility and can regenerate. And I also have Hourman juking and jiving, so any attack will miss him.


- Black Alice immediately steals the magic-based powers of Captain Marvel and Zauriel (she stole the Spectre’s power once and they have the same basic power source). This should give her all of their powers, plus give her wings and a replica of Zauriel’s flaming sword and armor. Captain Marvel will be reduced to Billy Batson and Zauriel will be powerless, wingless and unarmed. This should only take a second or two.
I would try to argue that Zauriel's sword and armor are tech-based, because both were created by Heaven's best scientists... but it's pretty moot. You don't have Sinestro create any shields or constructs, so there's nothing for him to slice through.

Same with Mace Windu. I'm okay with the EMP effecting his lightsaber, because he has nothing to slice through. But that doesn't mean he's powerless as he still has all of his Force abilities.


- The Incredible Hulk, Namor and Mary Marvel will stand guard around both Faust (maintaining his shield spell) and Alice (stealing magical powers). Given Mary’s speed – even at a reduced level – she should still be faster than either Windu or Triathlon if they decide to try and speedblitz us. I would argue that Namor would be able to match Triathlon’s speed as well. Hulk has also been surprisingly effective against speedsters and can smash the ground under them if they attack.
This actually works perfectly for me. They'll be standing around and give Graviton's attack all the time in the world to work.

[Mike Smash!]

Great strat, guys!


That's because she intended to steal Spectre's powers. Here, she intends to steal Captain Marvel's and Zauriel's powers. I think she's inexperienced enough to be surprised and overwhelmed by the extra power I'm pumping into her (that sounded bad).
I (naturally) disagree, since the Spectre theft would have been overwhelming if she had that sort of backlash, especially since the Spectre power is much harder to control than the Power of Shazam - which isn't typically trying to get you to drag people into hell.



Traveling speed, yes. But speed when it comes to reflexes in a fight? Personally, I would think Triathlon has him beat there.I think so. I think that he's got at least a base level of superspeed reflexes, given the superfast people he's regularly seen fighting. People a deal faster than Triathlon.

Also, I don't think that Hourman's time powers would work on the people within the timefield (everybody) or the forcefield trying to absorb tachyon energy (everybody but Terrax), plus I'd be willing to argue that Terrax's shield and axe would be absorbing Graviton's power long enough for Faust to take control of his body and turn on Hourman by surprise.

Rags and I really liked the move you had where Namor was being used as a club and think that it would be effective if Graviton were not already possessed.

[Mike Smash!]

Good idea to create shields that screen out time powers. They might have also stopped Graviton too if he had targeted your team directly. But he directs his powers to the ceiling. Then he lets the force of gravity do its thing on your team. And that's something the shield won't be able to block. The shields would probably go with them to the ceiling, but Faust's would drop when he hits the ceiling and Terrax will be too distracted by Triathlon and Sue to keep his up.

Well, if anything Faust wouldn't hit the ceiling, he'd hit the roof of Terrax's force field, which isn't that high up. It might knock him hard enough to cancel the time shield, but not before Sinestro's ring takes out Hourman. And from the roof of Terrax's shield, he could easily cast the spell to take over Graviton.

And if the time shield is cancelled out, Terrax is still absorbing the tachyon energy from both the force field and his axe. And against the offense of a souped up Triathlon, it would be an annoyance, but it would be far more effective if Sue just attacked Terrax directly. The assault wouldn't be enough to make Terrax drop his defensive shield or energy absorption.

I think Faust can pull it off. This is a guy who soloed the original JLA.


And since Hulk doesn't attack my team directly in the first part, there's no hurry and Hourman will just wait for the shields to drop before using his Time Vision.At which point, I think it will be too late, Sinestro - who you admitted could avoid the gravity attack - would knock out Hourman with his EMP blast and send him to the floor long enough for Faust's spell to grab Graviton to crush him.


First, Hourman is a machine colony from the year 85,271 AD. Machines of that era have moved beyond being effected by EMPs. Plus, during Hourman's Hour of Power, he has invulnerablility and can regenerate. And I also have Hourman juking and jiving, so any attack will miss him.Hourman is still electronic and even though he's extremely advanced, those nanites are still open to EMP attack. Even Iron Man and Doom are victim to powerful EMP blasts enough to take them down for at least ten minutes. Given Hourman's tech, he would be up much faster (at longest a minute) to the EMP before regenerating. Which is why I sic Graviton on him almost immediately after.

I believe the EMP would succeed, but even if it didn't I believe possessed Graviton taking him unaware would work just as well. Especially because the EMP Sinestro is sending out is damn powerful. And I don't believe it can miss.. it's a wave moving in all directions at once.

He was torn apart completely in a JSA issue and it isn't until after the fight that he's able to reassemble himself completely and reboot. I believe the EMP would take him down -- temporarily and if I didn't sic Graviton on him, he'd be back up in a moment.


I would try to argue that Zauriel's sword and armor are tech-based, because both were created by Heaven's best scientists... but it's pretty moot. You don't have Sinestro create any shields or constructs, so there's nothing for him to slice through.

I'd argue that they're as magical as Wonder Woman's armaments which are forged in much the same way and Alice has been shown to have stolen Alan Scott's ring and Wonder Woman's gear in the past.


Same with Mace Windu. I'm okay with the EMP effecting his lightsaber, because he has nothing to slice through. But that doesn't mean he's powerless as he still has all of his Force abilities.That's why I listed him as the most dangerous of the three. He's has fighting skills and mental powers that can make him fast and strong, as well as telekinesis and others.



This actually works perfectly for me. They'll be standing around and give Graviton's attack all the time in the world to work.But I think Graviton will be possessed quickly enough and this will become a moot point.

[Lex]

Rags and I really liked the move you had where Namor was being used as a club and think that it would be effective if Graviton were not already possessed.
Thanks! I'm pretty proud of that move. I was staring at my computer for an hour trying to figure out how to knock out Namor. And I also still had Terrax to deal with. So I combined them. I figured it would knock out Namor, but not Terrax, so that's why I brought in Hourman's ship.

[Jared H.]

Bloody hell, this is a tough match.

[Mike Smash!]

Bloody hell, this is a tough match.If it helps decide your vote, remember that he has Triathlon on his team. :)

...JUST KIDDING, LEX!

[Lex]

If it helps decide your vote, remember that he has Triathlon on his team. :)

...JUST KIDDING, LEX!
If I had kept Awesome Android on my team, all of you would be quivering in your booties because of Triathlon. Quivering, I say!

[Mike Smash!]

If I had kept Awesome Android on my team, all of you would be quivering in your booties because of Triathlon. Quivering, I say!Who did you trade Andy for, again?

[Lex]

Well, if anything Faust wouldn't hit the ceiling, he'd hit the roof of Terrax's force field, which isn't that high up. It might knock him hard enough to cancel the time shield, but not before Sinestro's ring takes out Hourman. And from the roof of Terrax's shield, he could easily cast the spell to take over Graviton.

And if the time shield is cancelled out, Terrax is still absorbing the tachyon energy from both the force field and his axe. And against the offense of a souped up Triathlon, it would be an annoyance, but it would be far more effective if Sue just attacked Terrax directly. The assault wouldn't be enough to make Terrax drop his defensive shield or energy absorption.

I think Faust can pull it off. This is a guy who soloed the original JLA.
Gravity can effect energy too. We always hear about gravity altering light and energy out in space. So I have no doubt that Graviton's field will pull up the force fields as well. That can definately knock out Faust. He was lucky those times he soloed the JLA. He's a pansy. Elongated Man has whipped his butt on numerous occasions.

And Sue is attacking Terrax. Her shield is surrounding Triathlon. So the power of her shield is in every one of his punches. If Sue attacking Terrax directly would be effective, then combining with Triathlon should be even moreso.


At which point, I think it will be too late, Sinestro - who you admitted could avoid the gravity attack - would knock out Hourman with his EMP blast and send him to the floor long enough for Faust's spell to grab Graviton to crush him.

...

Hourman is still electronic and even though he's extremely advanced, those nanites are still open to EMP attack. Even Iron Man and Doom are victim to powerful EMP blasts enough to take them down for at least ten minutes. Given Hourman's tech, he would be up much faster (at longest a minute) to the EMP before regenerating. Which is why I sic Graviton on him almost immediately after.

I believe the EMP would succeed, but even if it didn't I believe possessed Graviton taking him unaware would work just as well. Especially because the EMP Sinestro is sending out is damn powerful. And I don't believe it can miss.. it's a wave moving in all directions at once.

He was torn apart completely in a JSA issue and it isn't until after the fight that he's able to reassemble himself completely and reboot. I believe the EMP would take him down -- temporarily and if I didn't sic Graviton on him, he'd be back up in a moment.
Hourman is 83 centuries more advanced than anything Doom and Iron Man have access to. I believe and EMP can shut down their tech, but it's highly unlikely that it will bother Hourman at all.

And you've left something out about that JSA issue. The JSA were in Dr. Fate's tower which is apparently unaffected by time (which caused Hourman's powers to not work very well). But the second they teleported back to the JSA headquarters, Hourman's time powers were able to reassemble his body. There's nothing in this battle to stop Hourman from reassembling.


I'd argue that they're as magical as Wonder Woman's armaments which are forged in much the same way and Alice has been shown to have stolen Alan Scott's ring and Wonder Woman's gear in the past.
Quite possible. But, like I said, it's fairly moot.


But I think Graviton will be possessed quickly enough and this will become a moot point.
I don't think Faust will be able to control Graviton very well while he's unconscious. :)

[Lex]

Who did you trade Andy for, again?
Graviton. If I had had another woman on my team, I probably would've traded Sue for Graviton instead. They do similar feats, though Graviton is a lot more versatile.

And if Dipset hadn't ended trading, I probably would've traded Triathlon. But now I'm trying to make the best of him.

[Jared H.]

If it helps decide your vote, remember that he has Triathlon on his team. :)

...JUST KIDDING, LEX!

Hey, I used to have Triathlon on my Avengers League team...

...but only because they wouldn't let Joystick have her anti-speedster powers.

[Mike Smash!]

Gravity can effect energy too. We always hear about gravity altering light and energy out in space. So I have no doubt that Graviton's field will pull up the force fields as well. That can definately knock out Faust. He was lucky those times he soloed the JLA. He's a pansy. Elongated Man has whipped his butt on numerous occasions.Well, it may be moot since they're in Terrax's forcefield which is specifically absorbing Graviton's ambient powers. I did mention in my strat that he wasn't just absorbing energy hitting the field and others, but in the air around.

I think this could cancel it out. At least long enough for Faust to pull off that spell.


And Sue is attacking Terrax. Her shield is surrounding Triathlon. So the power of her shield is in every one of his punches. If Sue attacking Terrax directly would be effective, then combining with Triathlon should be even moreso.I hope not, because that would cause her a lot of pain.

During the recent Waid run on FF, the Thing once punched a villain after Sue shielded him up and the painful backlash of the impact almost knocked her out.

And Terrax is absorbing her energy as well, and mentioned so in the strat. This might just be regular Triathlon.



Hourman is 83 centuries more advanced than anything Doom and Iron Man have access to. I believe and EMP can shut down their tech, but it's highly unlikely that it will bother Hourman at all.

I believe that it would attack the billions of nanobots that make up his body, at least for a short while. As we've seen in comics, future tech only goes so far, but tends to have the same sorts of weaknesses as the present day stuff.



And you've left something out about that JSA issue. The JSA were in Dr. Fate's tower which is apparently unaffected by time (which caused Hourman's powers to not work very well). But the second they teleported back to the JSA headquarters, Hourman's time powers were able to reassemble his body. There's nothing in this battle to stop Hourman from reassembling.Except for a possessed Graviton. Or Terrax who will attack anyone trying to do anything to the bubble with distance attacks like earth manipulation and cosmic blasts.



I don't think Faust he'd be able to control Graviton very well while he's unconscious. :)I don't think Faust will be unconscious. He's in a force field that absorbs Graviton's ambient energy and should cancel most of it out. And I don't buy that Graviton will be able to easily move a field put in place by a herald of Galactus while he's fight, at best a small annoyance.

[ragnarok_2012]

Two very well thought out and imaginitive strats guys. Well done. i read Lex's first and was like - here's the winner and then read Mike's and was like - here's the winner.

Well, I feel flattered. :D

Thanks, that's very nice of you to say Kara.

[ragnarok_2012]

Great strat, guys!


Thanks. I really like a lot of the elements of your strategy, too.

I particularly liked your idea of de-aging the Hulk until a point before Banner got hit by gamma radiation. It's a good thing he's protected by Terrax.

You so should have turned Sue Storm into Malice. :D



That's because she intended to steal Spectre's powers. Here, she intends to steal Captain Marvel's and Zauriel's powers. I think she's inexperienced enough to be surprised and overwhelmed by the extra power I'm pumping into her (that sounded bad).


Pervert. :D

You are already writing Black Alice/Power of Shazam fan fic, aren't you?

I'm really skeptical about this argument. Black Alice has been shown to be fantastically powerful. The Spectre is without a doubt more powerful than Captain Marvel is.

We've got some pretty compelling evidence on our side. Is there anything you can cite that would support this particular argument?



Traveling speed, yes. But speed when it comes to reflexes in a fight? Personally, I would think Triathlon has him beat there.

This is so turning into a Firelord vs. Spider-man argument.

IMHO, Triathlon could very well have faster reflexes than Terrax the Tamer. But once he closes to grappling distance he's dead. The invisible force field, as Mike pointed out, would be consumed by Terrax.

I am really unclear on how you see Triathlon distracting Terrax.


Good idea to create shields that screen out time powers. They might have also stopped Graviton too if he had targeted your team directly. But he directs his powers to the ceiling. Then he lets the force of gravity do its thing on your team. And that's something the shield won't be able to block. The shields would probably go with them to the ceiling, but Faust's would drop when he hits the ceiling and Terrax will be too distracted by Triathlon and Sue to keep his up.

And since Hulk doesn't attack my team directly in the first part, there's no hurry and Hourman will just wait for the shields to drop before using his Time Vision.


I don't think Graviton's inversion of gravity is quite the coup de grace that you are making it out to be, but it's pretty creative.

Graviton is powerful, but do you honestly think that capturing Mary Marvel would be as fast and easy as you're making it out to be? I don't think that Graviton could incapacitate the Hulk and Namor....and drag Mary Marvel over to Billy Batson all at the same time.

I think our strategy is nullifying most of your uses for Graviton.



First, Hourman is a machine colony from the year 85,271 AD. Machines of that era have moved beyond being effected by EMPs. Plus, during Hourman's Hour of Power, he has invulnerablility and can regenerate. And I also have Hourman juking and jiving, so any attack will miss him.


Hourman is quite powerful (and he does have an impressive regenerative ability), but he is not unstoppable. I think an EMP blast could disable him for a brief period of time.

And I really do think that Graviton could rip him apart (esp. with the element of surprise).



I would try to argue that Zauriel's sword and armor are tech-based, because both were created by Heaven's best scientists... but it's pretty moot. You don't have Sinestro create any shields or constructs, so there's nothing for him to slice through.


When Black Alice steals magical powers, she gets their weapons, too. If she steals from Wonder Woman, she gets the bracelets and lasso. If she steals from Zauriel, she's getting wings, armor and a flaming sword.



Same with Mace Windu. I'm okay with the EMP effecting his lightsaber, because he has nothing to slice through. But that doesn't mean he's powerless as he still has all of his Force abilities.


Mace is still one bad mother *shuts his mouth*

[Lex]

I particularly liked your idea of de-aging the Hulk until a point before Banner got hit by gamma radiation.
Yeah, moving people up and down their personal timelines is one of the funner aspects of Hourman's time powers.


You so should have turned Sue Storm into Malice. :D
What's Malice?


I'm really skeptical about this argument. Black Alice has been shown to be fantastically powerful. The Spectre is without a doubt more powerful than Captain Marvel is.

We've got some pretty compelling evidence on our side. Is there anything you can cite that would support this particular argument?
Um... she's just a kid. I don't think she has enough experience to anticipate something like this happening. She's not expecting Cap to suddenly download all that power into her. If she was expecting it, they she might be able to handle it.


IMHO, Triathlon could very well have faster reflexes than Terrax the Tamer. But once he closes to grappling distance he's dead. The invisible force field, as Mike pointed out, would be consumed by Terrax.
Sue isn't unconscious. Even if Terrax is able to absorb all of her force field, she'll be able to continually renew it.


I don't think Graviton's inversion of gravity is quite the coup de grace that you are making it out to be, but it's pretty creative.
By that same token, I think you and Mike are putting too much faith in Terrax's abilities to absorb energy. I find it suspect that he can absorb everything that Graviton does, especially when the energy isn't directed at Terrax or his shield. Plus it's supposed to absorb both Sue's force fields and Hourman's time energy.

That's a bit much.


Graviton is powerful, but do you honestly think that capturing Mary Marvel would be as fast and easy as you're making it out to be? I don't think that Graviton could incapacitate the Hulk and Namor....and drag Mary Marvel over to Billy Batson all at the same time.
Well Graviton might have to stuggle if Mary was moving, but you and Mike have her just standing there. While Sinestro and Terrax have experience defying gravity, Mary doesn't so she'll be as vulnerable as a normal person.

And from my research, Graviton has been able to do multiple tasks at the exact same time in the past. So why can't he create a gravity field on the ceiling AND grab Mary?


Hourman is quite powerful (and he does have an impressive regenerative ability), but he is not unstoppable. I think an EMP blast could disable him for a brief period of time.
I agree that Hourman isn't unstoppable. But I think it's a mistake to assume that he has the same limitations as 21st century technology.


And I really do think that Graviton could rip him apart (esp. with the element of surprise).
Now this I agree with. Graviton could definately rip Hourman apart. I just disagree that a pansy like Faust could take him over while he's unconscious on the ceiling.


Mace is still one bad mother *shuts his mouth*
Hey, you're just talking about Mace Windu. :)

[Mike Smash!]

What's Malice?I'll let Rags answer that one.


Um... she's just a kid. I don't think she has enough experience to anticipate something like this happening. She's not expecting Cap to suddenly download all that power into her. If she was expecting it, they she might be able to handle it.She may be just a kid and inexperienced, but she's stolen powers from far bigger people than even a boosted up Captain Marvel - and even boosted up - he's still a bit depleted because of Mary being powered up. She's absorbed the powers of the Spectre before without much trouble, and those powers are far greater (he arm wrestled the Anti-Monitor) and much harder to control.

The Power of Shazam may give you a helpful voice of wisdom in your head to help you make hard decisions and think quick, but the Spectre wants you to BURN THEM! BURN THEM ALL!!!


Sue isn't unconscious. Even if Terrax is able to absorb all of her force field, she'll be able to continually renew it.True, but that may make it hard for Triathlon to fight Terrax, much less scratch him. I would argue that Terrax is faster, given the people he's battled in the past, buyt as far as speedsters go, Triathlon isn't that fast. He's three times faster than Captain America, which is really impressive except when you have people like Quicksilver or Wally West around.


I agree that Hourman isn't unstoppable. But I think it's a mistake to assume that he has the same limitations as 21st century technology.Well, we're all making assumptions, but given that we've seen 21st century tech defeat advanced alien or future tech in the past and that alot of future tech has many of the same quirks or weaknesses, we think that an EMP could temporarily damage Hourman...at least long enough to possess Graviton and tear him apart.


Now this I agree with. Graviton could definately rip Hourman apart. I just disagree that a pansy like Faust could take him over while he's unconscious on the ceiling.And we disagree that he's unconscious on the ceiling. :)


Hey, you're just talking about Mace Windu. :)And we can dig it.

[Froggy]

hate to say it lex, but triathlon would get tore up by Terrax, regardless of his reflex speed in close range combat. other than that I liked your strategy what with the Hourman tactic

[ragnarok_2012]

What's Malice?


http://pics.livejournal.com/wasabi/pic/0000685q

http://pics.livejournal.com/wasabi/pic/000088te

80's John Byrne FF story.

He had the Hate Monger reprogram Sue to make her a super villain. She went by the codename Malice.

Reed fixed her by slapping her in the face and telling her to shut up.

I'm not kidding.

[Mike Smash!]

Nice mullet, evil Sue.

Rags, do have the panel that reveals how Reed managed to defeat her? :)

[ragnarok_2012]

Nice mullet, evil Sue.

Rags, do have the panel that reveals how Reed managed to defeat her? :)

http://img250.imageshack.us/img250/1651/fantasticfourv1281p22cj3.jpg

John Byrne, everyone.

[Lex]

So it's just evil Sue? Got it. But how cool could she be if it only takes a slap to stop her?

[Mike Smash!]

So it's just evil Sue? Got it. But how cool could she be if it only takes a slap to stop her?Not just a slap. A slap from Reed.

It's John Byrne logic. Put her in 'er place, Reed!

[Lex]

Well, we're all making assumptions, but given that we've seen 21st century tech defeat advanced alien or future tech in the past and that alot of future tech has many of the same quirks or weaknesses, we think that an EMP could temporarily damage Hourman...at least long enough to possess Graviton and tear him apart.
Maybe technology from the 60th century could be defeated by 21st century tech, but Hourman is from the 853rd century. I doubt any part of the diamond generation intelligent machine colony that Hourman is made from can be effected by an EMP.

You're not going to convince me otherwise.


And we disagree that he's unconscious on the ceiling. :)
I'm sorry to say this Mike, but you have a worthless pansy on your team. Faust is a joke in the DCU. Whenever a situation gets out of control, you'll always find him cowering in his little, yellow booties.

[Mike Smash!]

Maybe technology from the 60th century could be defeated by 21st century tech, but Hourman is from the 853rd century. I doubt any part of the diamond generation intelligent machine colony that Hourman is made from can be effected by an EMP.

You're not going to convince me otherwise.Future tech all sort of bleeds together in comics. Kang, the Legion of Super Heroes, the Guardians of the Galaxy, Justice Legion A... for all intents and purposes, they just have "future" level tech that seems quite comparable, really.



I'm sorry to say this Mike, but you have a worthless pansy on your team. Faust is a joke in the DCU. Whenever a situation gets out of control, you'll always find him cowering in his little, yellow booties.Corwardly, sure. But I don't believe the situation ever gets much out of his control. He's quite a powerful guy, especially since he never leaves Terrax's cosmic forcefield.

At best, he gets bumped once and continues to hide in the forcefield and continues to hide and fight from a distance. Sounds like Faust to me.

[Lex]

Well, I was right. My lack of knowledge about Terrax did me in. I thought maybe upping the creativity of my strat would get me through, but alas.

Plus, you guys had really smart counters for my team. I disagreed with some of them, but they were still very smart.

And some of my counters were lacking. I still think there's a counter out there for Black Alice that will work while having magic characters on your team. I'm going to continue looking and hopefully come up with one if I ever have to face her again in a League.

Plus your Alice strategy is killer. Instead of grabbing a random power, you go for any magic character on the opponents team and eliminate some characters right off the bat. It's very frustrating.

So great job you two! This was a fun and challenging match. Good luck in the rest of the tournament.

[Mike Smash!]

Well, I was right. My lack of knowledge about Terrax did me in. I thought maybe upping the creativity of my strat would get me through, but alas.

Plus, you guys had really smart counters for my team. I disagreed with some of them, but they were still very smart.

I appreciate that. And consider the compliments returned! Even when I disagree with your arguments, I'm very impressed with them. You'd make a very good nerd lawyer.

You gave a helluva good, creative strat and I'm glad that Rags and I have gotten such a high caliber of opponent so far.


And some of my counters were lacking. I still think there's a counter out there for Black Alice that will work while having magic characters on your team. I'm going to continue looking and hopefully come up with one if I ever have to face her again in a League.

One thing that Rags and I do when we write a strat is we brainstorm stuff for our opponent's team as if we were playing them and Rags came up with a really messed up counter for Alice that requires an evil character on your own team. :evilsmile


Plus your Alice strategy is killer. Instead of grabbing a random power, you go for any magic character on the opponents team and eliminate some characters right off the bat. It's very frustrating.

It gives us the numbers advantage, but it only works with teams with magical characters. There are a number of teams in this game that don't have any magic-based characters and I'm honestly a little nervous about facing them.


So great job you two! This was a fun and challenging match. Good luck in the rest of the tournament.I had a blast. It was a pleasure to debate you!

[Mike Smash!]

I also want to say, on the record, how amused I am by that Mr. Sparkle avatar. I love that episode.

[ragnarok_2012]

And some of my counters were lacking. I still think there's a counter out there for Black Alice that will work while having magic characters on your team. I'm going to continue looking and hopefully come up with one if I ever have to face her again in a League.

Plus your Alice strategy is killer. Instead of grabbing a random power, you go for any magic character on the opponents team and eliminate some characters right off the bat. It's very frustrating.


I have come up with multiple ways to deal with Black Alice that I'll be happy to talk about after the tournament is over.


I appreciate that. And consider the compliments returned! Even when I disagree with your arguments, I'm very impressed with them. You'd make a very good nerd lawyer.


Agreed. You're a smart, fun guy to play against, Lex.



One thing that Rags and I do when we write a strat is we brainstorm stuff for our opponent's team as if we were playing them and Rags came up with a really messed up counter for Alice that requires an evil character on your own team. :evilsmile


No hints, Mike. :D


I also want to say, on the record, how amused I am by that Mr. Sparkle avatar. I love that episode.

That avatar rocks.

Thanks to all the voters for voting our team.