Captain Britain & Pete Wisdom - Why the lack of Love? :(

[The Sword Is Drawn]

Spinning out of the 'Excalibur Survivor' thread...

I noticed that both Captain Britain and Pete Wisdom were block eliminated from the survivor tournament really quite early on. Now admittedly with any survivor tournament all it takes is a group of four posters with a vendetta to eliminate any character, most of the time, but I for one was really confused by this.

As a British super team why exactly would the two biggest British players be removed so soon? I cannot see an Excalibur team where they wouldn't be involved working out.

The only assumption I can make is that a certain part of the X-community have a problem with characters who a) Aren't mutants or b) don't dress in Spandex and use codenames?

Am I wrong? Am I right?

Please, let me know. But play nice in a constructive way. No "Wisdom is teh LMAO! Lollz!!!". Give me your actual reasons, yeah?

Over to you.

[Pro]

The only assumption I can make is that a certain part of the X-community have a problem with characters who a) Aren't mutants or b) don't dress in Spandex and use codenames or c)are british

You forgot the most logical conclusion so i added it for you :p.

I don't get captain britain being voted off that fast, he's always been at the center of the series, hell excalibur would never have happened if it hadn't been for Captain Britain's own books

[Karl H]

No "Wisdom is teh LMAO! Lollz!!!".



This sums it up to me....

I joke.

I've never read a lot of Wisdom so I can't really comment. However, I imagine the him and Kitty thing still irks a lot of long-memoried X-fans.

In terms of Captain Britain, I loved Moore's mini and much of the early work but I've always found him a difficult character to conceptualise - there's just a little too much of a mystical connection to him which I've never enjoyed massively in the MU.

[The Sword Is Drawn]

You forgot the most logical conclusion so i added it for you :p.

I don't get captain britain being voted off that fast, he's always been at the center of the series, hell excalibur would never have happened if it hadn't been for Captain Britain's own books

Exactly.

Although, I would concede, that had my only contact with The Captain been through New Excalibur I would probably have thought the guy is a bit of an
ass, myself. ;)

Not weanting toplug another forum, but recently I've been taking part in Comixfan's Superhero Idol fanfic contest, as Captain Britain. There I have found my entries kind of plugging gaps in New Excalibur's continuity. All we see in NEX is Cap talking hyperbole and standing in spandex. It's not easy for people to see that as anything other than a bit cod.

Over 20 issues ago Cap lost his wife and yet at no point have we seen him properly address this, barely even mention it. When Brian lost his sister, or at least though Betysy was dead after Fall of the Mutants we saw him turn to drink, and grieve badly. Why have we seen none of this on NEX. It brought readerrs into understanding the character on Excalibur. What real oportunity has there been for that on NEX?

[Karl H]

Perhaps then Captain Britain is being seen as a metaphor for that other 'cod' Tony Blair!!!!

[The Sword Is Drawn]

This sums it up to me....

I joke.

I've never read a lot of Wisdom so I can't really comment. However, I imagine the him and Kitty thing still irks a lot of long-memoried X-fans.

For some I'd imagine so. But tyen a lot of Excalibur fans were far more furious that Kitty suddenly went from being a character comparable in age and maturity to Storm when she joined the X-Men or Scarlet Witch when she joined the Avengers to being retconned into a kiddie upon her retrn to the X-Men.

In the context of the former Wisdom and Kitty was a cleverly written and interesting relationship, which only truly seems odd with what has been retconned since.

In terms of Captain Britain, I loved Moore's mini and much of the early work but I've always found him a difficult character to conceptualise - there's just a little too much of a mystical connection to him which I've never enjoyed massively in the MU.

I think part of the problem there is that the mystical connection has not been handled well on page for a long time.

Claremont doesn't present it well. Too much hyperbole. Cap is the kind of character who can be written in the epic mould, and successfully, providing its backed up by irony and humour. Claremont no longer does either of these effectivey.

[Karl H]

You've probably hit it on the head there Sword. I mean I can get into most characters if they're written well...

I mean I never really cared for Madrox until PAD's X-factor and now he's pretty much one of my favourite X-characters.

[The Sword Is Drawn]

You've probably hit it on the head there Sword. I mean I can get into most characters if they're written well...

I mean I never really cared for Madrox until PAD's X-factor and now he's pretty much one of my favourite X-characters.

I'm with you there!

And here I think Wisdom is another point in question. To anybody who hated Wisdom i the past I would recommend picking up Paul Cornell's Wisdom mini. It's trading soon. Wisdom is much better and more rounded character these days, and he comes across much better inthis series than he has in many parts of New Excalibur.

[Karl H]

I'm with you there!

And here I think Wisdom is another point in question. To anybody who hated Wisdom i the past I would recommend picking up Paul Cornell's Wisdom mini. It's trading soon. Wisdom is much better and more rounded character these days, and he comes across much better inthis series than he has in many parts of New Excalibur.

well as you know, following your incessant pimping - and Cornell's excellent Doctor Who, I've added it to my list!

[The Sword Is Drawn]

well as you know, following your incessant pimping - and Cornell's excellent Doctor Who, I've added it to my list!

Ha Ha. Yeah.

I personally see Wisdom as exactly the kind of character we need in the X-Books. He's a mutant, but he's not defined by BEING a mutant. He's defined by being a Spook (Which American poster's a term for somebody working for a government intelligence agency. I'm told you don't use the term. And god knows it sounds less cod than saying "He's a spy!") and the things which he's willing to do for his country.

He's good at his job, but pretty lousy with people as a result.

[Mikl C]

No "Wisdom is teh LMAO! Lollz!!!". Give me your actual reasons, yeah?



Dude, what? That doesn't make sense. It's

OMFG WISDOM IS TEH SUX0RZZ!

[The Sword Is Drawn]

Dude, what? That doesn't make sense. It's

OMFG WISDOM IS TEH SUX0RZZ!

My appologies. I'm not fluent in internet troll. Thanks for the correction. ;)

And now explain your opinion?

[Mikl C]

Did you just call me a TROLL? :eek:

[Dagger]

I have no problem with Captain Britain, I'm actually really starting to get into the Captrain Britain mythos by reading up on it online, and I've recently ordered the two Cap'n Britain tpb's, as well as my new obsession the Knights of Pendragon. As far as Wisdom, on top of him being retconned into being a pervy pedo, I've always hated his attitude. For one, he's a smoker, and I find that to be a filthy habit. Another, he was sooo forced down our throats at how kewl he was because he was a british spy with fire nails!!!!! that it was nauseating.

[Brian M.]

I just don't like the British.:evilsmile

[The Sword Is Drawn]

Did you just call me a TROLL? :eek:

Not in that context. It was not an accusation, Mikl C. You are certainly not a troll. You're a guy who saw a moment of comedy potential, and I hold nothing against you. :D

It's all cool, mate.

[The Sword Is Drawn]

I have no problem with Captain Britain, I'm actually really starting to get into the Captrain Britain mythos by reading up on it online, and I've recently ordered the two Cap'n Britain tpb's, as well as my new obsession the Knights of Pendragon.

I would certainly reccomend the furst Knights of Pendragon series. Although Cap doesn't appear in mutch of it it's a good series, which should have run as it was for much longer. A strong concept and not a badly told story.

The second volume was ruined by colourful costumes and 90s mentality, sadly. :(

As far as Wisdom, on top of him being retconned into being a pervy pedo, I've always hated his attitude. For one, he's a smoker, and I find that to be a filthy habit. Another, he was sooo forced down our throats at how kewl he was because he was a british spy with fire nails!!!!! that it was nauseating.

Well, you'll be glad to hear these days he's quit smoking and showing the withdrawal symptoms... ;)

I think he's become a much more rounded character since his early days. His role in X-Force and certainly his mini has toned the 'Kewl' factor, as you'd have it, down. It shows his acts as having a definite purpose, and demonstrates why people would put their trust in him.

[Dagger]

I would certainly reccomend the furst Knights of Pendragon series. Although Cap doesn't appear in mutch of it it's a good series, which should have run as it was for much longer. A strong concept and not a badly told story.

The second volume was ruined by colourful costumes and 90s mentality, sadly. :(
I ordered the first 18 issues, so I'm eagerly awaiting to read up on them more.


Well, you'll be glad to hear these days he's quit smoking and showing the withdrawal symptoms... ;)

I think he's become a much more rounded character since his early days. His role in X-Force and certainly his mini has toned the 'Kewl' factor, as you'd have it, down. It shows his acts as having a definite purpose, and demonstrates why people would put their trust in him.
I didn't care for him in the X-Force series. Honestly, other than Cannonball and Meltdown, I didn't like anyone else from Ellis' X-Force work. I still dont' think I'll ever like him. He's just one of those characters I just can't bring myself to like. Much like Douglock and Psylocke in her current incarnation.

[Apocalypse Now Then!]

I was never the greatest fan of Captain Britain, for a long time. Whe I first started reading Excalibur he was in his super lame 'Britanic' persona, with glowing eyes and stuff.

I didn't get him at all. Then a mate gave me an 80s UK trade paperback by Jamie Delano and Alan Davis, and I started seeing whathe used to be, and liked thsat it was all a little bit silly and tongue in cheek. When you realise that's how it's supposed to be then you start to understand the guy much better.

As for Wisdom? I liked Wisdom from the start. Watching the playful bickerong of Pryde and Wisdom was a real highlight of Excalibur, for me. And I liked the thought that here we had a mutant who didn't give a flip about the whole 'Xavier's dream' rhetoric. But he wasn't a bad guy. He was a good guy. He just felt that being a mutant meant more than dressing in lycra and prancing about.

I thought that made a refreshing change.

[The Sword Is Drawn]

I ordered the first 18 issues, so I'm eagerly awaiting to read up on them more.

I hope you like them. They very much set in the background of the ladscape Excalibur was set in at the time. The same guest characters the same setting. But it's a bit of a clever spin on an old legend. And that made it a bit different.


I didn't care for him in the X-Force series. Honestly, other than Cannonball and Meltdown, I didn't like anyone else from Ellis' X-Force work. I still dont' think I'll ever like him. He's just one of those characters I just can't bring myself to like. Much like Douglock and Psylocke in her current incarnation.

Well, that's fair enough. Nobody likes every character out ther, and at least you have a reason.

[Novaya Havoc]

You really shouldn't take anything from a Survivor thread to heart. I mean, CANNONBALL won the mega-X one.

I don't like Captain Britain, because I genuinely don't like Nationalist heroes. I find them overly cliche in design, which is an immediate turn off. This is true of Captain Britain, Captian America, Red Guardian, Crimson Dynamo, Collective Man -- you name it. Sabra is pretty much the only exception, and she's moved away from being "Ms. Israel."

Brian's also seen more often in costume than outside of it. As a reader, it's always been difficult to pull a personality from him.

Then there're the generic Supermanian powers of flight and strength. I fly, am strong, etc etc.

Add that with the generic superhero personality (being a drunkie isn't really much of a personality twist) for a good chunk of his appearances, and voila. Insta-snooze. He may have been just fabulous in Excalibur proper, but everything I've read has always been Brian-as-placeholder-within-story rather than Brian-as-character-driving-the-story.

Pete Wisdom? There I see the potential. I just don't have much to say on him really. Pete could grow on me, and outside of Ali/TJ, he'd be next on my list for having the most character potential on the NEX squad. But I won't go into NEX. ;)

[jarrod]

Eh, the real travesty was Moira being taken out. :(

She should totally haunt the mansion and follow Chucky around in Uncanny. But let Ellis or Milligan write it! :D

[jarrod]

Add that with the generic superhero personality (being a drunkie isn't really much of a personality twist) for a good chunk of his appearances, and voila. Insta-snooze. He may have been just fabulous in Excalibur proper, but everything I've read has always been Brian-as-placeholder-within-story rather than Brian-as-character-driving-the-story.
I'd say this is largely true, though Ellis did some interesting stuff with him when he was infiltrating the London HFC. We got to see Brian as an intellectual again, which was pretty refreshing.

The Morre/Delano/Davis CB stuff is great too, though the supporting cast (Betsy, Meggan, etc) often stile the limelight.

[The Sword Is Drawn]

You really shouldn't take anything from a Survivor thread to heart. I mean, CANNONBALL won the mega-X one.

Granted. But I think that it is something which has also come up in a number of NEX review threads, and I wondered just what people's beef was with either character.

I don't like Captain Britain, because I genuinely don't like Nationalist heroes. I find them overly cliche in design, which is an immediate turn off. This is true of Captain Britain, Captian America, Red Guardian, Crimson Dynamo, Collective Man -- you name it. Sabra is pretty much the only exception, and she's moved away from being "Ms. Israel."

I would still love to have Sabra on NEX, though. A regukar on team book which can have dealings with the rest of Europe could do her some good, in my eyes.

I hear where you're coming from. National Heroes can become dull stereotypes. They need to have an extra dimension to them, in order to work. Like Captain America being the hero of WW2, but struggling to adapt to the 20th Century.

Back in the beginning Captain Britain was this young guy who chose to become a Captain purely to stay alive, but then found he had this bi mystical destiny thrust upon him that he wasn't prepared for. He wasn't a great hero, he frequently mucked up with comic repurcussions, he had a drinking problem, and could not work as a team player, but somehow - when it mattered - he turned out to be the right guy for the job.

When you compare that character in Excalibur to hyperbole firing man of honour Claremont has been writing in NEX it's hard to see the same person. We don't see the human side of Brian, anymore, and without that the character is a bit lacking.

Brian's also seen more often in costume than outside of it. As a reader, it's always been difficult to pull a personality from him.

Exactly. In Excalibur we saw him the opposite way around. In new Excalibur he wears the suit and adopts the role fasr too much.

Then there're the generic Supermanian powers of flight and strength. I fly, am strong, etc etc.

I honestly don't think enough is made of where that power comes from. On a base level he is a lot like superman now. He was perhaps more interesting when he still had to use the staff. But his power source is literally tied to the collective conscious of Britain. If that conscious takes a pounding he should feel it.

Add that with the generic superhero personality (being a drunkie isn't really much of a personality twist) for a good chunk of his appearances, and voila. Insta-snooze. He may have been just fabulous in Excalibur proper, but everything I've read has always been Brian-as-placeholder-within-story rather than Brian-as-character-driving-the-story.

I don't disagree with what yoursaying Novaya. If you read some of the Alan Moore or Jamie Delano stories you might feel differently, just as I would probably think differently about Dazzler if I read her solo. If you have read any more recent stuff I could quite easily understand taking your vierwpoint.

Somebody needs to take Cap to task, and explore him properly. I had hoped that freeing him from the Cap/Meggan pairing would allow for that. It could have, but at the end of the day Claremont hasn't used that opportunity as best as perhps he should have. I know Chris created him, back in 70s, but I really think he isn't the best writer for him anymore. He was once, but not anymore. :(

Pete Wisdom? There I see the potential. I just don't have much to say on him really. Pete could grow on me, and outside of Ali/TJ, he'd be next on my list for having the most character potential on the NEX squad. But I won't go into NEX. ;)

Ha ha. Understood.

[Dagger]

Ellis' Hellfire Club was bad ass! I'd much rather see them return than Sat-yr9 and Viper in it.

I'd also love to have Christos Gage take over NEX. His Union Jack mini was absolutely brilliant!

[The Sword Is Drawn]

I'd say this is largely true, though Ellis did some interesting stuff with him when he was infiltrating the London HFC. We got to see Brian as an intellectual again, which was pretty refreshing.

I liked Ellis' approach with Brian. So you've been out for awhile trapped in the timestream. You've literally seen the whole of human history and all of its shortcomings. After that why would you fight? It would probably seem pretty futile.

Bringing Brian into the role of engineer and scientist for the team worked very well in that period.

The Morre/Delano/Davis CB stuff is great too, though the supporting cast (Betsy, Meggan, etc) often stile the limelight.

It's all good stuff. I just wish they'd reprint more of it for the American market.

[Mikl C]

Ok someone explain Sat-yr-9 or WHATEVER to me cuz the name just really bugs me.
There should be a captain ireland. It should be me.

[The Sword Is Drawn]

Ellis' Hellfire Club was bad ass! I'd much rather see them return than Sat-yr9 and Viper in it.

I'd also love to have Christos Gage take over NEX. His Union Jack mini was absolutely brilliant!

It was very good, yes. Although I'll be happy for Paul Cornell, if that comes off.

I'd like to see Joey considered for the team though.

[Karl H]

Ok someone explain Sat-yr-9 or WHATEVER to me cuz the name just really bugs me.
There should be a captain ireland. It should be me.

was there one in Ultimates 2?

[Dagger]

Ok someone explain Sat-yr-9 or WHATEVER to me cuz the name just really bugs me.
There should be a captain ireland. It should be me.
You got me. I believe it came from when Moore was writing the Captain Brit. books.

You don't like Shamrock? I love shamrock!!!!

[The Sword Is Drawn]

Ok someone explain Sat-yr-9 or WHATEVER to me cuz the name just really bugs me.

That's a very long story.

She is an alternate universe version of Saturnye the Ominversal Majestrix, who oversees deciding what moves should be taken with regards to Universes which cause a danger to others in the multiverse.

But in Sat-yr-9's dimension she enslaved everybody and became dictator. And that dimension's Captain Briyain was her kinky S&M slave. In Cap's solo series he escaped, found his way to our earth, where he fought Brian, beat him an assimed his identity. Brian was then dragged back to Sat-yr-9's dimension where he eventually escaped. But Kaptain Briton, as he was called, in our dimension attempted to rape Psylocke. In order to stop him she literally had to fry his mind.

When Sat-yr-9 found out she came to Earth 616 for vengeance, in Excalibur. She took over the London underworld used Jamie Braddock as her pawn and attempted to take revenge on Brian and Psylocke. She lost, and went into hiding.

But upon her first arrival on 616 she decided to assume the identity of her analogue from this dimension. That was Courtney Ross, former girlfriend of Captain Britain and head of a wealthy Merchant Bank. She killed Courtney, and using her Bank links and Underworld connections she became very powerful, eventually joining up with the Hellfire Club.

[Mikl C]

GAH
That is so complicated. So Courtney Ross hellfire woman is actually this evil bizznitch?
Kaptain Briton... for real? Why the spelling?

[The Sword Is Drawn]

GAH
That is so complicated. So Courtney Ross hellfire woman is actually this evil bizznitch?
Kaptain Briton... for real? Why the spelling?

Different Universe. Far more Fascist. But as to why the spelling? No idea. Just to distinguish the difference I guess. Like most of the other Captains of the multiverse.

But yes, the Courtney Ross of the Hellfire Club was a fascist dictator frokm another world, reaping profits from this one. Excatly what her game has been in NEX, and how she's got Brian believing she's the REAL Courtney since House of M, that something Claremont has simply not explained yet.

[streator]

i didn't participate in the survivor threads but i like both captain britain and pete wisdom. wisdom more so than braddock.

if they were involved in another book i might be interested. i could go for wisdom in x-men or something.

[The Sword Is Drawn]

i didn't participate in the survivor threads but i like both captain britain and pete wisdom. wisdom more so than braddock.

if they were involved in another book i might be interested. i could go for wisdom in x-men or something.

Wisdom trying to be an X-Man would be amusing. If there were ever anybody more against the idolisation of the dream... ;)

[Karl H]

I could see Wisdom playing a supporting role to a 'fugitive' X-team in the same way Fury is the Winter Soldier in Cap right now!

[Novaya Havoc]

Ok someone explain Sat-yr-9 or WHATEVER to me cuz the name just really bugs me.
There should be a captain ireland. It should be me.

http://www.marvel.com/universe3zx/images/8/80/Shamrock.jpg

?

SHE'S LUCKY!!!!1!

*sigh*

[The Sword Is Drawn]

Shamrock's a member of S.H.E. isn't... er... she?:rolleyes:

[Nachturne]

I like Pete!!! :D

[Wagner Time]

I like Pete!!! :D

Me too. I didn't to begin with, but he grew on me over the course of his time on Excalibur.

[Hi-Fi]

I really like Pete.

Captain Britain bores me.

[The Sword Is Drawn]

I really like Pete.

Captain Britain bores me.

What about him bores you? Specifically. Is it just the way he currently written or something inherent in the character?

[Hi-Fi]

What about him bores you? Specifically. Is it just the way he currently written or something inherent in the character?
I like him when he's interacting with Betsy, Meggan and the rest of Excalibur. I really dislike the Roma/Captain Britain Corps/Albion stuff.

[Hi-Fi]

I also like Lila Cheney. She's british.

[The Sword Is Drawn]

I like him when he's interacting with Betsy, Meggan and the rest of Excalibur. I really dislike the Roma/Captain Britain Corps/Albion stuff.

I see. I personally think that Claremont has a tendency to overplay that. When they were created it was a much more huomours concept, but over recent years they are often layed for utter seriousness which doesn't really work.

I'd like to see somebody other than CC use them. Somebody actually going to task explaining it all for New Readers, and straightening things out.

I also like Lila Cheney. She's british.

Yeah, we haven't seen her in a while.

[Novaya Havoc]

I also like Lila Cheney. She's british.

:( :( :( :(

[MakeshiftHero]

Pete is one of my top fav X characters of all time. And his mini made him that much more bad ass. (I'd love to see his team play a role in the upcoming Skrull stuff (John the Skrull) but you know it probably wont happen).

I think what caused him to get voted off the survivor list quick and why he isn't still in the running and why Lockheed (of all characters) is in there is because not many people know Pete cause he's only in Excalibur, which isnt doing as well as the other books. Plus he's not an "X-Man" so a lot less people will know about him when you mention his name. I think Pete deserves to be a big name character and it wouldnt be hard to get him to join an X team to get his name out there. All you'd have to do is say that Pete is following some undercover drug/weapons/mutant organization that did something bad in England and came over to America and O.N.E. is letting the X-Men help out requested by MI6.

It really is a shame we dont get to see more Pete Wisdom.

[Affinity]

:( :( :( :(

LOLOLOL Ben!

[Xanrn]

Meggan's isn't dead, she is just lost.

That and he can't really remember what happened due to House of M.

[The Sword Is Drawn]

Meggan's isn't dead, she is just lost.

That and he can't really remember what happened due to House of M.

It does kind of screw Cap over, this whole situation.

You get the idea that at the time Claremont came up with the idea he thought the editors would have no problem with himmentioning members of Excalibur like Nocturne and Cap remembering the event. They're even talking about it in NEX #1. But after that? Nothing.

Nothing from Cap nothing from Nocturne. Part of me thinks that Clremont might even have thought having TJ on his team might have given a right to go searching for Wanda. But that was never going to happen...

Foe Cap he is stuck with his wife having disappeared overnight, not knowing if she's alive or dead, and only having the vaguest recollection of the event of Meggan vanishing. No more really than a fairly vivid dream. It's left Brian as a bit of quandary.

[Flight]

Because they're from LONDON!
And the world hates a Londoner!!!!

[The Sword Is Drawn]

Because they're from LONDON!
And the world hates a Londoner!!!!

Technically Wisdom's more Essex than London. And Brian's not from the Greater London area either, but yes, I follow.

And as a Scot you're GOING to say that ;)

[Flight]

I'm not Scottish, you cheeky scoundrel.
I just live here, as you've probably noticed from my bad English.

[The Sword Is Drawn]

I'm not Scottish, you cheeky scoundrel.
I just live here, as you've probably noticed from my bad English.

I actually did not know that.

Where do you hail from?

[KittyPryde]

I like him when he's interacting with Betsy, Meggan and the rest of Excalibur. I really dislike the Roma/Captain Britain Corps/Albion stuff.
That's a very good summary of my position on CB too.

As for Wisdom...I liked the recent mini well-enough. But I generally pretty much hate the character. I really don't like large egos (which gets into CB a bit as well). I also hated the Kitty-thing (Rasputin for the win). Plus he smokes ;). I just find him pompous and slimy.

That said, I didn't help vote either of them off the recent Survivor game, and would've left them both around for a bit longer despite the fact that I REALLY dislike Wisdom in Excalibur and am not much of a CB fan either.

[The Sword Is Drawn]

That's a very good summary of my position on CB too.

I think that Chris Claremont's want and need to return to Roma has in many ways blighted some people's opinion of Captain Brtain, in recent years. I think it's a shame. There's a lot more to the character than what many asee, but like I say it's not been shown recently.

As for Wisdom...I liked the recent mini well-enough. But I generally pretty much hate the character. I really don't like large egos (which gets into CB a bit as well).

I'm not sure that Wisdom has such a huge ego as he did, anymore. He's certainly been humbled a bit in recent times. And I think that all started with Kitty. But can unsderstand what you mean. If you can't stand ego Wisdom's not your man.

Although I'm not so sure how you extend that to Cap. He's just a leader. You have to have an element of that, but you also need the ability to be selfless for the greater good. If Cap hadn't had that he never would have let Meggan sacrifice herself to save 616, for example.

I also hated the Kitty-thing (Rasputin for the win).

You see I'm quite the opposite. I actually found Kitty to be quite annoying before Excalibur. But as I watched grow slowly into adulthood over the next ten years I grew to find her to be an interesting character. And frankly she wouldn't have had that if ashe hadn't left the Russian behind. TRhat part of her life ended long before Fall of the Mutants, but the fact that between the start of Excalibur and Illyana's death (Over 50 issues) Poitr is only ever mentioned in an annual speaks volumes. I was glad to see Ellis try to finally resolve that relationship in the most logical way.

I found her much more adult relationship woth Wisdom to be genuinely enjoyable to read. The way they bickered and sparred with each other, like this slightly surreal old married couple, was brilliant. Kitty had finally found somebody who matched her in intelligence and wit. It worked well. I'd still rather have a dozen issues of Pryde and Wisdom rather than a hundred of Poitr and Kitty sitting around with nothing to talk about. And frankly that is largely the alternative.

Plus he smokes ;).

I actually find 'trying to quit' Wisdom more interesting to read now, anyway. Not that he has much choice - Brutain goes smoke free on July 1st anyway. ;)

I just find him pompous and slimy.

Slimy, not so much. Smarmy with a deep appreciation of his own irony on occasion, yes. But pompous wold sugest an over-inflated opinion of his own capabilities. Wisdom can back those up. He's saved the world from alien invasion at least twice in the last 7 years. ;)

That said, I didn't help vote either of them off the recent Survivor game, and would've left them both around for a bit longer despite the fact that I REALLY dislike Wisdom in Excalibur and am not much of a CB fan either.

Exactly. They're Excalibur's mainstays now. Take them away and the team isn't Excalibur anymore.

[Cain Marko]

I liked Wisdom in X-Force. Other than that...eh. I used to sort of like Captain Britain once upon a time but he's so corny now in NEX that's gone. About all the personality of a wind-up toy. But, purely default, he's my favorite member of the current team. With Wisdom second.

[Citizen V]

Claremont and Davis really hit the mark,but i dont know why these themes are not accepted well.Is it because its British and not American?

[Dazzler]

I love Captain Britain. Love him. He can rock my world anytime.

Pete Wisdom is awful. I hate Brit-cool. Too smarmy. Same reason i read The Boys and threw up a little in my mouth.

--Dazz

[Karl H]

I love Captain Britain. Love him. He can rock my world anytime.

Pete Wisdom is awful. I hate Brit-cool. Too smarmy. Same reason i read The Boys and threw up a little in my mouth.

--Dazz

the boys was excellent... :(

although I'll admit that sometimes I do find grim Britishness a little cliche.

[Babylon23]

I'm a huge Captain Britain fan. Huge. He's my main reason for reading NEX. I'm also a big fan of the whole mythos, from Roma/Merlyn/Saturnyne to Meggan, Dai Thomas, Jaspers, The Fury, Special Executive/Technet, Crazy Gang, etc.

However, my appreciation for the character and the mythos comes from his pre-Excalibur days, during the Delano/Davis period of Captain Britain magazine. This and the Moore stories that preceeded it was the period when Brian really flourished as a character. I'd say a lot of people who are Brian fans became fans through these stories.

While I've enjoyed much of Claremont's handling of Brian, I've always felt it was somewhat lacking. Claremont rarely acknowledges Brian's scientific/inventor side.

In NEX, Brian is serving more as a plot device for the stories rather than as a fleshed out character. I think part of the problem is that NEX lacks certain characteristics that distinguished both Brian's solo stories and early Excalibur from all of the other X-books. While I enjoy the book in general, it reads more like X-Men than Captain Britain. Maybe Claremont needs somebody like Alan Davis to add a more British feel to the book.

Ellis had a decent handle on Brian, and worked more with all elements of Brian's personality. The less said about Lobdell and Britannic the better.

As for Wisdom, I think the main problem is that few writers other than Ellis really have a decent handle on the character (I've yet to read Cornell's miniseries). british smarminess works better when written by Brits. despite Claremont's childhood, he's mch more of an american writer. I think it takes a certain British attitude to write Wisdom well.

[The Sword Is Drawn]

I liked Wisdom in X-Force. Other than that...eh.

Though Pete's X-Force tenure was kind of brief it was a strong characterisation. Even though, as far as the readers knew, he was dead he actually shepherded the whole run along from behind the scenes.

I used to sort of like Captain Britain once upon a time but he's so corny now in NEX that's gone. About all the personality of a wind-up toy.

Again, it's the ridiculous hyperbole, isn't it. You can't just have him stand and make speeches, without showing the rest of his character, too. It hasn't worked.

But, purely default, he's my favorite member of the current team. With Wisdom second.

That's fair enough.

Claremont and Davis really hit the mark,but i dont know why these themes are not accepted well.Is it because its British and not American?

I don't think it's as simple as that. I think it's more that right now the readers just can't really 'feel' Marvel's Britain. New Excalibur gives us a few physical London backdrops, but never goes into establishing the landscape on any other level. If Claremont had spent time showing the cast interacting with their environment, showing us how they feel about the place and how it effects them I think it would be very different.

Right now, especially to readers who did not come in contact with the original series, it comes across as having the feeling of a 2D backcloth with some houses painted on and a sign saying "Welcome to England!" I feel that also makes both Cap and Wisdom appear all the more two dimensional, too. Things hav inproved in the last 4 or 5 issues, but I think for many the damage has already been done, and ploughing on regardless seems a little inconsequential.

I love Captain Britain. Love him. He can rock my world anytime.

Well there's a commendation! :D

Pete Wisdom is awful. I hate Brit-cool. Too smarmy. Same reason i read The Boys and threw up a little in my mouth.

How is it any worse than American Cool, and everything being 'Totally Kick Ass!' and other such bollocks? ;) I really liked The Boys. But more because the concept of Superhero Stomping seemed interesting to me.

[The Sword Is Drawn]

I'm a huge Captain Britain fan. Huge. He's my main reason for reading NEX. I'm also a big fan of the whole mythos, from Roma/Merlyn/Saturnyne to Meggan, Dai Thomas, Jaspers, The Fury, Special Executive/Technet, Crazy Gang, etc.

However, my appreciation for the character and the mythos comes from his pre-Excalibur days, during the Delano/Davis period of Captain Britain magazine. This and the Moore stories that preceeded it was the period when Brian really flourished as a character. I'd say a lot of people who are Brian fans became fans through these stories.

I would totally agree Babylon. They were Cap's finest years as a character. And more importantly as a Marvel Universe character. I think that up until Davis left Excalibur the character continued along that path well. But the way in which writers like Lobdell in the 90s tried to shoehorn him into being an X-Character damaged the guy for so many readers.

While I've enjoyed much of Claremont's handling of Brian, I've always felt it was somewhat lacking. Claremont rarely acknowledges Brian's scientific/inventor side.

Which is something I've always found to be particularly odd, because that's a part of his character which CC created, himself.

In NEX, Brian is serving more as a plot device for the stories rather than as a fleshed out character. I think part of the problem is that NEX lacks certain characteristics that distinguished both Brian's solo stories and early Excalibur from all of the other X-books. While I enjoy the book in general, it reads more like X-Men than Captain Britain. Maybe Claremont needs somebody like Alan Davis to add a more British feel to the book.

Bouncing ideas off Davis certainly would help. And yes, I think you're right. Plot device does kind of cover it. It's like Chris came up with this great concept for the Captain Britain Mythos 'What happened to all the guy who chose the sword' and built up that concept - but at the same time forgetting who Captain Britain WAS as a character as opposed to a title or role.

Ellis had a decent handle on Brian, and worked more with all elements of Brian's personality. The less said about Lobdell and Britannic the better.

Totally. But yes, Ellis - even though I think he initially was unsure how to use Captain Britain - certainly knew how to write Brian.

As for Wisdom, I think the main problem is that few writers other than Ellis really have a decent handle on the character (I've yet to read Cornell's miniseries). british smarminess works better when written by Brits.

I'd agree. Cornell has a handle on him, but I think you're right. Brits by and large write Wisdom best. The very concept of the character does not fit American common values. I think somebody like Christos Gage might do a fair job though, after reading his Union Jack mini.

despite Claremont's childhood, he's mch more of an american writer. I think it takes a certain British attitude to write Wisdom well.

I'd agree there, too. I'd also say that I feel part of Claremont's problem is that he DID leave the UK a long time ago. His vision of Britain is the vision he remembers. But a lot has changed since the 60s. The 70s and 80s made Britain a violent and discontent place, and the 90s erased large parts of the stereotype America seems to hold of us. Modern Britain is not something that I think Claremont either really knows or understands.

[Jack Flash]

Captain Britain is alright. I liked his solo stuff and his stuff with the Fury/Mad Jim is such a fantastic read. but lately his stuff with Roma just feels tired. We've seen Jerk Brian before in the previous Excalibur run, why do we have to see him act jerkish again?! Plus his powers are kinda run of the mill "I am a perfect super hero!".

Pete Wisdom was fantastic in his debut with Excalibur. I loved his power effects. I loved the snark. I loved the foil for Kitty and Piotr.
But X-force....just ruined him a bit and then his return to Excalibur with Claremont/Tieri feels a bit ho hum generic british sarcastic character. Even his cool power effect with the knives cominghas been subsumed by run of the mill "knives". He just feels bland lately.

[Babylon23]

I would totally agree Babylon. They were Cap's finest years as a character. And more importantly as a Marvel Universe character. I think that up until Davis left Excalibur the character continued along that path well. But the way in which writers like Lobdell in the 90s tried to shoehorn him into being an X-Character damaged the guy for so many readers.

Well, Captain Britain was always Davis' signature character. so much of his work both in Britain and the U.S. has involved Brian. There's a part of me that hopes he'll return to the character one day. Maybe he'll sneak brian into Clandestine at some point.

Bouncing ideas off Davis certainly would help. And yes, I think you're right. Plot device does kind of cover it. It's like Chris came up with this great concept for the Captain Britain Mythos 'What happened to all the guy who chose the sword' and built up that concept - but at the same time forgetting who Captain Britain WAS as a character as opposed to a title or role.

that's pretty much it in a nutshell. I find the Albion concept to be fascinating, and I like how Claremont has handled the villain. However, Brian's reactions haven't really been all the interesting. He's essentially dealing with the dark side of the Captain Britain Corps, with Albion being a dark reflection of himself. I'd like to see this played up more. Look at Brian's reaction to Kaptain Briton back in the day.

Also, Brian has a more violent streak to him than is shown these days. The way he reacted to the Kaptain Briton/Sat-Yr-9 situation, or to Slaymaster's blinding of Betsy. When Brian loses it he can be incredibly violent and destructive. None of Claremont's work has really touched on this to any great degree.

Totally. But yes, Ellis - even though I think he initially was unsure how to use Captain Britain - certainly knew how to write Brian.

It took Ellis a while. I'd say he didn't really hit his stride with Brian until the Hellfire Club storyline, but his work there was excellent.

I'd agree. Cornell has a handle on him, but I think you're right. Brits by and large write Wisdom best. The very concept of the character does not fit American common values. I think somebody like Christos Gage might do a fair job though, after reading his Union Jack mini.

I didn't read either miniseries, although I'll be picking both up in trades. I'd love to see Union Jack in NEX.


I'd agree there, too. I'd also say that I feel part of Claremont's problem is that he DID leave the UK a long time ago. His vision of Britain is the vision he remembers. But a lot has changed since the 60s. The 70s and 80s made Britain a violent and discontent place, and the 90s erased large parts of the stereotype America seems to hold of us. Modern Britain is not something that I think Claremont either really knows or understands.

Exactly. I think there's a level of British cynicism, dry wit and smarminess required in writing Wisdom. I think only somebody who experiences Thatcher-era Britain can really get a handle on the kind of attitude Wisdom needs. Either that, or having to suffer through the English Cricket team of the 90's. It's hard to say. :D

[The Sword Is Drawn]

Captain Britain is alright. I liked his solo stuff and his stuff with the Fury/Mad Jim is such a fantastic read. but lately his stuff with Roma just feels tired.

That is something which has disappointed me, actually. Several things changed in Otherworld between the end of Excalibur and the next time we saw the place in House of M. Namely Excalibur vol2, the min series from 2000. Now, while that series was quite flawed in places it did change the status quo for the whole Otherworld Mythos.

At the end of that series Brian had done the largely unthinkable - he had brought both the Amulet and the Sword under his command. Now normally that much power would drive a man insane, but it was revealed that the reason why Sir James Braddock, Brian's father, had left Otherworld for Earth was that he had been charged by Merlyn, at the time, to basically 'create' him a man capable of uniting both sides of the mythos, in peace.

Jamie Braddock was too easily manipulated, so it wasn't him. Psylocke had briefly been Captain Britain once, and not fared well, so it wasn't her. It was Brian.

So Brian defeated the Mastermind's invasion of Otherworld with the ramshackle Excalibur team he assembled and with Amulet AND Sword in hand was crowned Monarch of Otherworld. He even changed his costume for his father's old costume - the original colours of the Captain Britain corps. It was much more like a hybrid of his later Excalibur costume and his original red one, with the lion crest and the union jack. This costume had no mask, however.

Roma told Brian that she would not be long for this world, and that when she left he would have to rule as guardian of the Multiverse, himself. Not a terribly realistic idea, not being a God or anything, but that was the long term plan. In the short term, however, Brian had another task. The Mastermind had sent his troops across the Multiverse bumping off each dimension's Captain Britain as they went. There were now only a handful left (Again an unrealistic concept from Ben Raab, considering the Multiverse is by its very definition infinite) and Brian had to go out there and create new Captains to replace those who had been lost, and repopulate the Corps. Sadly the only part of this particular quest we ever saw in panel was when Cap showed up in Avengers to make Kelsey Leigh (Lionheart) the new Captain Britain of Earth 616.

Now that's a LOT of development. But what is more interesting is that Chris Claremont chose to ignore almost ALL of it. House of M arrives, and sure Brian has the title 'Monarch of Otherworld' but other than this everything is exactly as it was the very last time Claremont wrote Otherworld in Excalibur. He's back in the old Excalibur costume, Roma is still in charge with Saturnyne as second, Brian does not have the Amulet OR the Sword. Everything is effectively retconned by being ignored.

It makes even less sense when we get to the discussions of what Albion is, in the current arc, where Brian claims to have little knowledge of how Captains who choose the sword work. He'd assumed it was the same as his experience. And yet he seemed to understand full well when Kelsey chose the Sword a couple of years earlier.

It seems to me that rather than explore the interesting developments Claremont just went back to the same old tired concepts from the 80s. And that to me is a great shame.

We've seen Jerk Brian before in the previous Excalibur run, why do we have to see him act jerkish again?! Plus his powers are kinda run of the mill "I am a perfect super hero!".

They can be on certain levels. Again, it depends upon how you work with it though. I mean technically Brian's powers come from the whole multiverse, channeled through Otherworld and into him. Otherworld is literally created from the collective consciousness of an infinite number of Britains, so surely if a) Britain is in trouble or b) Otherworld unstable we should see these things effect Brian's powers.

But again I think that's a bit high concept for Claremont right now. It would be playing out of his comfort zone. If I were writing Cap I'd be working on how his public profile might effect his powers, or how he can work as a symbol to inspire others. But I'm not the writer, am I.

Pete Wisdom was fantastic in his debut with Excalibur. I loved his power effects. I loved the snark. I loved the foil for Kitty and Piotr.

Yes, me too. It was all very well-written, and had a certain spark to it all.

But X-force....just ruined him a bit and then his return to Excalibur with Claremont/Tieri feels a bit ho hum generic British sarcastic character.

I think it depends upon how you read it. If you look at it from the point of view of the whole of the X-Force thing being one big plan by Wisdom and Stuart to get X-Force to take down Romany Wisdom (Something Pete couldn't bring himself to do on his own) , and seeing Wisdom's death as the necessary catalyst for that, he comes off pretty well. His appearance, alive and well, at the end of that run supports that. But his actual page time was really quite short, and I think the structure Ellis chose was a bit of an odd one, which did not entirely work.

I think that on the Claremont side of New Excalibur Pete hasn't been too bad in places. His response to Sage dressed up as styled by Nocturne, while she possessed her, for example was very much the Pete of old. But it's moments, not wholes. And I personally saw Tieri's Pete as the worst Wisdom I have ever read.

Even his cool power effect with the knives cominghas been subsumed by run of the mill "knives". He just feels bland lately.

He comes across much better in his mini. I'd dare even say that the handle Cornell has on him is in many ways better than Ellis'. He's a more rounded character. I really hope the Cornell on NEX rumours are true. I just think that in the case of both characters they really need a more cerebral approach to get the best out of them in modern comics. Claremont doesn't offer that as much as I hoped he could have.

[Dagger]

Something that could possibly help C.B. is giving him a new costume. His redesign is shite. Actually, everyone from NEX would benefit from a makeover.

[The Sword Is Drawn]

Well, Captain Britain was always Davis' signature character. so much of his work both in Britain and the U.S. has involved Brian. There's a part of me that hopes he'll return to the character one day. Maybe he'll sneak brian into Clandestine at some point.

And there's another series to look forward to. Yeah, I hope Brian gets snuck in somewhere. ;)

that's pretty much it in a nutshell. I find the Albion concept to be fascinating, and I like how Claremont has handled the villain. However, Brian's reactions haven't really been all the interesting. He's essentially dealing with the dark side of the Captain Britain Corps, with Albion being a dark reflection of himself. I'd like to see this played up more. Look at Brian's reaction to Kaptain Briton back in the day.

Also, Brian has a more violent streak to him than is shown these days. The way he reacted to the Kaptain Briton/Sat-Yr-9 situation, or to Slaymaster's blinding of Betsy. When Brian loses it he can be incredibly violent and destructive. None of Claremont's work has really touched on this to any great degree.

Absolutely. Brian isn't this pure out and out clean cut good guy we see nowadays. When he is wronged he needs to find somebody to lash out at. That's why I feel it so odd that he hasn't been more proactive with regards to finding Meggan.

I didn't read either miniseries, although I'll be picking both up in trades. I'd love to see Union Jack in NEX.

That's something I very much hope that we might yet see. Joe Chapman's an interesting character with a history. He'd be a great asset to NEX.

Exactly. I think there's a level of British cynicism, dry wit and smarminess required in writing Wisdom. I think only somebody who experiences Thatcher-era Britain can really get a handle on the kind of attitude Wisdom needs. Either that, or having to suffer through the English Cricket team of the 90's. It's hard to say. :D

To be honest I think most American's would can the level of confusion from watching Cricket, period. But perhaps not the spirit of such powerless frustration. ;)

[jarrod]

Exactly. I think there's a level of British cynicism, dry wit and smarminess required in writing Wisdom. I think only somebody who experiences Thatcher-era Britain can really get a handle on the kind of attitude Wisdom needs. Either that, or having to suffer through the English Cricket team of the 90's. It's hard to say. :D
Well, I thought Yost at least did a commendable job on NEX8... I'd agree generally though that Claremont's Wisdom seems a bit "off".


Now normally that much power would drive a man insane, but it was revealed that the reason why Sir James Braddock, Brian's father, had left Otherworld for Earth was that he had been charged by Merlyn, at the time, to basically 'create' him a man capable of uniting both sides of the mythos, in peace.

Jamie Braddock was too easily manipulated, so it wasn't him. Psylocke had briefly been Captain Britain once, and not fared well, so it wasn't her. It was Brian.
I absolutely love this theory, and it was hinted at as far back as Moore's early run. Great stuff... though I'd sumbit that the twins were actually intended to rule together. ;)


Now that's a LOT of development. But what is more interesting is that Chris Claremont chose to ignore almost ALL of it. House of M arrives, and sure Brian has the title 'Monarch of Otherworld' but other than this everything is exactly as it was the very last time Claremont wrote Otherworld in Excalibur. He's back in the old Excalibur costume, Roma is still in charge with Saturnyne as second, Brian does not have the Amulet OR the Sword. Everything is effectively retconned by being ignored.
To be fair, I'd imagine Davis had a hand in it too... he's somewhat known for reverting characters to the type he prefers (which is likely why Brian and Meggan were back in his Excalibur designs, and not the more recent Pacheco/Cassady costumes).



They can be on certain levels. Again, it depends upon how you work with it though. I mean technically Brian's powers come from the whole multiverse, channeled through Otherworld and into him. Otherworld is literally created from the collective consciousness of an infinite number of Britains, so surely if a) Britain is in trouble or b) Otherworld unstable we should see these things effect Brian's powers.

But again I think that's a bit high concept for Claremont right now. It would be playing out of his comfort zone. If I were writing Cap I'd be working on how his public profile might effect his powers, or how he can work as a symbol to inspire others. But I'm not the writer, am I.
I thought tieing it to the inherent magics of the British Isles (channelled throughout the multiverse via the lighthouses) was a dumbed down, easily understandable enough explanation in the original Excalibur. Maybe a bit cliche, but hey, it's Claremont/Davis... a little cliche's part of the fun.

Now they just need to do the same with Betsy and Jamie, since they're not really mutants. ;)

[The Sword Is Drawn]

Something that could possibly help C.B. is giving him a new costume. His redesign is shite. Actually, everyone from NEX would benefit from a makeover.

'Aint that the truth.

I'd love to see a return to the old red uniform. That's why I liked the Excalibur vol 2 costume. It was some of the stronger elements of the two.

[Dagger]

'Aint that the truth.

I'd love to see a return to the old red uniform. That's why I liked the Excalibur vol 2 costume. It was some of the stronger elements of the two.
That's the Sword of Power mini? I loved that redesign! I was just thinking the same thing yesterday!

[jarrod]

I'm still partial to the streamlined Pacheco redesign of his original outfit... red and black, it's perfect!

I think Nocturne's tweak was pretty decent, I'd like to see Tessa go back to her Xtreme fetish gear but Dazzler? I dunno, I think we need to trash everything and start from scratch. :/

[The Sword Is Drawn]

Well, I thought Yost at least did a commendable job on NEX8... I'd agree generally though that Claremont's Wisdom seems a bit "off".

Oh, I'd agree. Wisdom refering to Psylocke as Brian's non-real sister, but pointing uot to her that she needn't worry. He'd still show her the time of her life if she wanted him to. ;)

That was pure Wisdom. I actually thin Yost's issues are some of the best of the run so far. He totally matched Claremont style, but withouth the clunkyness ;)

I absolutely love this theory, and it was hinted at as far back as Moore's early run. Great stuff... though I'd sumbit that the twins were actually intended to rule together. ;)

Quite probably, yes. Like I say, that's what Raab did in that series. I also think Betsy is more capable now, than she was in the past.

To be fair, I'd imagine Davis had a hand in it too... he's somewhat known for reverting characters to the type he prefers (which is likely why Brian and Meggan were back in his Excalibur designs, and not the more recent Pacheco/Cassady costumes).

Maybe, yes. But it was up to Claremont and Michael Ryan as to how things were revamped for New Excalibur. A shame. I do not like Ryan's designs.

I thought tieing it to the inherent magics of the British Isles (channelled throughout the multiverse via the lighthouses) was a dumbed down, easily understandable enough explanation in the original Excalibur. Maybe a bit cliche, but hey, it's Claremont/Davis... a little cliche's part of the fun.

A little, yes. But workable. And plausible to put a new spin on.

Now they just need to do the same with Betsy and Jamie, since they're not really mutants. ;)

I've been hoping they get round to that for years, but if editorial wont allow Psylocke back in her own body pointing out to people that she's not a mutant definitely won't stick.

[The Sword Is Drawn]

Cap's costume as of the end of Excalibur vol 2:

http://www.internationalhero.co.uk/c/captainbritain4.jpg

[streator]

84 35.94 MAR072118 $2.99 MAR New Excalibur 20 28,788 19 28,987 -199 -.69% 3

http://www.comicbookresources.com/news/newsitem.cgi?id=10981

their whole book could use some love.

[Babylon23]

Something that could possibly help C.B. is giving him a new costume. His redesign is shite. Actually, everyone from NEX would benefit from a makeover.

Couldn't agree more. Personally, I think Alan Davis' initially redesign (the classic Union Jack costume) is superhero costume perfection. I also loved Casey Jones' darker redesign of that uniform during the Ellis era.

The current costume is jsut too bland and generic.

[The Sword Is Drawn]

Couldn't agree more. Personally, I think Alan Davis' initially redesign (the classic Union Jack costume) is superhero costume perfection. I also loved Casey Jones' darker redesign of that uniform during the Ellis era.

The current costume is jsut too bland and generic.

Totally. I'm glad that Eaton has put the chin guard back in, though. Ryan's costume had a cowl attachetd the rest of the suit - like Guardian of Alpha Flight. Cap has a mask and costume. They're seperate, and always have been.

[Babylon23]

84 35.94 MAR072118 $2.99 MAR New Excalibur 20 28,788 19 28,987 -199 -.69% 3

http://www.comicbookresources.com/news/newsitem.cgi?id=10981

their whole book could use some love.

Well, the book seems to have stabilised around the 28,000 mark, so it's still above the cencellation line. Still, the book could use a boost. Maybe a new line-up or new creative team could do that. Alternatively, the book could be tied into one of Marvel's neverending crossover events, something that hasn't really happened to date.

[The Sword Is Drawn]

84 35.94 MAR072118 $2.99 MAR New Excalibur 20 28,788 19 28,987 -199 -.69% 3

http://www.comicbookresources.com/news/newsitem.cgi?id=10981

their whole book could use some love.

That's not wrong, it could use a boost. But as Babylon says that's pretty well stabilzed above the culling mark.

Maybe a new line-up or new creative team could do that. Alternatively, the book could be tied into one of Marvel's neverending crossover events, something that hasn't really happened to date.

That's why I would be behind giving the book to Cornell. He has a solid handle on Wisdom, from Brian's brief guest appearance in Wisdom #6 you get the idea he understands Cap and Wisdom's relationship, but more importantly he has shown how to create and more importantly 'sell' the landscape to the reader. I think he do a lot for the title.

It's not in Marvel's crossover plans, so that looks like the best option.

[Dagger]

My favorite Captain Britain designs:
http://www.thematthewcraig.com/Scratch%20Images/capkelsey.jpg
http://www.chaomancer.com/battlec/CaptainBritain2.jpg
http://www.internationalhero.co.uk/c/captainbritain4.jpg

[The Sword Is Drawn]

I really liked Kelsey's Captain Britain costume - again a hybrid of the union jack and lion motif Cap costumes. On a slight deviation from topic I hope she sticks around after the current arc is done.

[Babylon23]

That's why I would be behind giving the book to Cornell. He has a solid handle on Wisdom, from Brian's brief guest appearance in Wisdom #6 you get the idea he understands Cap and Wisdom's relationship, but more importantly he has shown how to create and more importantly 'sell' the landscape to the reader. I think he do a lot for the title.

I'm all for Cornell based on his Doctor Who work alone. However, for him to succeed I think the general attitude to NEX has to change. I don't know whether it's Claremont or an editorial decision, but the book really doesn't need so many Americans, and it doesn't need to be a fringe x-book.

For the book to have a more British/European feel, it needs more British/European characters. Characters like Union Jack, Sabra, Psylocke, Meggan, the new characters from Wisdom, Spitfire, etc. could help to give the book its own feel and possibly distinguish it from the rest of Marvel's mutant fare. i think one of the biggest problems the book has faced is that it hasn't established its own identity.

[streator]

My favorite Captain Britain designs

i liked this one the most:

http://www.uncannyxmen.net/images/costume/britain-bigcostume5.jpg

[The Sword Is Drawn]

I'm all for Cornell based on his Doctor Who work alone. However, for him to succeed I think the general attitude to NEX has to change. I don't know whether it's Claremont or an editorial decision, but the book really doesn't need so many Americans, and it doesn't need to be a fringe x-book.

It's been a pretty universal complaint about the title, yes. Like I say I think that introducing the landscape of Marvel's Britain, and the characters' roles within it play a big part in that. And that is something Paul did very well in Wisdom, via guest characters and outlining people's jobs, responsibilities and roles.

But you are quite right, the cast is a problem. I don't mind Americans being on the book, but I would expect every character there to have some tie to bind them there. Juggernaut used to be a career criminal in the UK and Ireland, with Black Tom. That is something I'm glad Claremont brought up. But Dazzler has no real ties, nor Nocturne (Other than almost being Nightcrawler's daughter) nor Sage. It's a mis-match.

For the book to have a more British/European feel, it needs more British/European characters. Characters like Union Jack, Sabra, Psylocke, Meggan, the new characters from Wisdom, Spitfire, etc. could help to give the book its own feel and possibly distinguish it from the rest of Marvel's mutant fare. i think one of the biggest problems the book has faced is that it hasn't established its own identity.

I'd totally agree. It is problem which the original Excalibur faced when Lobdell tried to shoehorn it into the X-franchise proper. It doesn't work.

I would love to see any of the characters listed above. Especially Union Jack or Sabra. She's technically European. Heck, I'd quite like to see Le Peregrine as a team member, or the Contessa Valentina Allegra de Fontaine, of S.H.I.E.L.D. Nick Fury's old cohort. That's the kind of characters I think could make this series. The type who are popular when they guest star, but so rarely appear on ongoing titles.

But if the book needs to stay loyal to the X then please bring back Chamber. The team could use a psi-talent, and the fanbase he might bring. It would make sense to follow up on his appearance in #9.

But above all else, of course, Cap and Wisdom MUST be there. ;)

[Dagger]

I wouldn't mind if Chamber was there, but seriously, get rid of Wisdom. He's a big reason why I don't pick up NEX. Well, that, and the stories have been pretty much crap since the series started.

[The Sword Is Drawn]

I wouldn't mind if Chamber was there, but seriously, get rid of Wisdom. He's a big reason why I don't pick up NEX. Well, that, and the stories have been pretty much crap since the series started.

I think the one thing you can guarantee if NEX does go in the rumoured direction suggested is that Wisdom won't be going anywhere. The difference, though, is he will be written a little better, and a few more people might learn to understand him a bit more. Kind of in a similar way to how things changed for Madrox on X-Factor.

[Dazzler]

Well there's a commendation! :D
Oh yeah! ;)



How is it any worse than American Cool, and everything being 'Totally Kick Ass!' and other such bollocks? ;) I really liked The Boys. But more because the concept of Superhero Stomping seemed interesting to me.
It isn't. I can't stand that shit either.
American cool is too jocky and Britcool is too smug and both of them make me want to kill.

--Dazz

[The Sword Is Drawn]

It isn't. I can't stand that shit either.
American cool is too jocky and Britcool is too smug and both of them make me want to kill.

I think that both are okay in moderation, but I do hear where you're coming from. Both attitudes work far better with a certain amount of humour at the character's expense to balance things out. Like Wisdom leading the charge into Faerie section of Otherworld, all guns blazing, only to keel over a few steps further as all that smoking has knackered his lungs, in Wisdom #1. Or Wisdom's constantly having personal effects stolen by Lockheed, while he was dating Kitty in Excalibur.

Without that they could quite easily wind people up, I suppose.

[tetragene]

My greatest exposure to Captain Britain has been NEX. A book where a lot seems to revolve around him, but ironically...I feel like very little has been done with him specifically. He has more of a "boyscout--for mother and country" air to him in the book and that's about it. The lack of reactions to Meggan and Psylocke have been rather odd as well--making it seem like he doesn't really...care? All the mystical connections to Otherworld, Roma, and Merlyn don't help draw me towards him either. I just find Roma a complete bore. And I've never cared for super-hero characters that are strongly tied to mystical elements, which is why I've always avoided Dr. Strange books like the plague. I think his connection with the Captain Britain Corps (and the Corps itself) could be quite interesting if approached correctly, but I don't feel like NEX has done that. I don't remember him in the Ellis Excalibur issues I have. Was he even a member then?

Pete Wisdom I enjoy reading--when he's written correctly (*cough* by Ellis *cough*). In NEX he's been sorely mischaracterized as the team joke. I don't think he's a character that is particularly *likable*, but he is *interesting.* Again--in NEX he's been really annoying with all the lame passes at Sage (honestly...I'm thinking Ellis' Wisdom would tell Sage to f*ck off after one failed attempt with the snooty biatch and then move on...and blow smoke in her face from there on out :D )

I resent the insinuation that people don't like the two characters because they're "British." That's a fairly heavy-handed assumption. British Psylocke is the only version of that character I like. And again--Wisdom is enjoyable to read.

[Novaya Havoc]

Sword! You'd be so proud of me!

I met some fine British "blokes" at the bar last night. Though I really don't remember the details, but I think I said stuff like:
"YOU HAVE KYLIE MINOGUE THERE"
or
"Madonna owns like, 1/2 of the UK now, right?"
and
"You rich Brits! You so own a colony in South Africa or something to help pay for these travels, right?"

And I made a map of Great Britain from a cocktail napkin. They were quite taken by my loud Yank antics.

So now I am a little in <3 with UK people. Just thought I'd share?

[Dazzler]

I think that both are okay in moderation, but I do hear where you're coming from. Both attitudes work far better with a certain amount of humour at the character's expense to balance things out. Like Wisdom leading the charge into Faerie section of Otherworld, all guns blazing, only to keel over a few steps further as all that smoking has knackered his lungs, in Wisdom #1. Or Wisdom's constantly having personal effects stolen by Lockheed, while he was dating Kitty in Excalibur.

Without that they could quite easily wind people up, I suppose.
You're right about that. I would be fine with more of the self-deprication kind of Brit and/or American cool. I just like anything that supposed to be "hipper than thou" getting the subversive treatment. I didn't read the Wisdom series because i thought that might be the sum totality (nerd reference!) of the series, but if you think it has some more subversive elements like that, I might give it a try.
You know, though, I think I've LIVED that scene except with me in place of wisdom. ;)


Sword! You'd be so proud of me!

I met some fine British "blokes" at the bar last night. Though I really don't remember the details, but I think I said stuff like:
"YOU HAVE KYLIE MINOGUE THERE"
or
"Madonna owns like, 1/2 of the UK now, right?"
and
"You rich Brits! You so own a colony in South Africa or something to help pay for these travels, right?"

And I made a map of Great Britain from a cocktail napkin. They were quite taken by my loud Yank antics.

So now I am a little in <3 with UK people. Just thought I'd share?

You and me both, Novaya. My bf is British and I spent the better part of the first half of this year in Cirencester and Brighton where he lives. I'm all about the brits. I'm getting my stuff together to engage my move to Brighton.
Hooray for the Brits of love!
Sometimes being an American comes in handy...like when you meet a sexy Brit with an Yank fetish. ;)

--Dazz

[Cain Marko]

But you are quite right, the cast is a problem. I don't mind Americans being on the book, but I would expect every character there to have some tie to bind them there. Juggernaut used to be a career criminal in the UK and Ireland, with Black Tom. That is something I'm glad Claremont brought up. But Dazzler has no real ties, nor Nocturne (Other than almost being Nightcrawler's daughter) nor Sage. It's a mis-match.

I wouldn't say having been to Britain before qualifies as a "tie" to it. If that's the case most high-profile heroes have ties to Britain. Black Tom was a career criminal in Ireland, not the Juggernaut. The Juggernaut was purely American. And when he and Tom teamed up it was usually in the U.S. Cain's only tie to Britain, if it can be called that, is knowing an Irish guy. But since Tom and Cain were no longer partners-in-crime when NEX formed there's not even that.

[The Sword Is Drawn]

My greatest exposure to Captain Britain has been NEX. A book where a lot seems to revolve around him, but ironically...I feel like very little has been done with him specifically. He has more of a "boyscout--for mother and country" air to him in the book and that's about it. The lack of reactions to Meggan and Psylocke have been rather odd as well--making it seem like he doesn't really...care?

I would very much agree with that statement. Now I know that one could argue the change in writers might have had something to to with that, but the bottom line is that we have only really seen the boy scout/symbol of hope side of Cap and next to nothing of the man behind the mask. There's not really an excuse for that, largely because we've seen Claremont write the more personal side of Brian before, and write it well. So why not here?

All the mystical connections to Otherworld, Roma, and Merlyn don't help draw me towards him either. I just find Roma a complete bore. And I've never cared for super-hero characters that are strongly tied to mystical elements, which is why I've always avoided Dr. Strange books like the plague.

Cod magical mumbo jumbo in comics can indeed suck donkey balls. I have issues with Dr Strange for the same reasons. It takes a good writer to make him credible. I think part of the problem with Roma and Otherworld was that it was originally intended to all be played a bit tongue in cheek when it was created, but that doesn't work well in modern comics. It really needs a skilled writer to explore this part of the mythos anew, reconstruct it focussing on the more interesting elements of that rather than trudging out the same old stuff, and hoping that people will remember it.

The version of Otherworld which recently appeared in the Wisdom series is much more like how the place was conceived back in the days when Cap and Dane (The Black Knight) were partners. It's literal a shifting entity, shaped by the collective conscious of all those Britains across the multiverse. It moves and changes shape. The citadel is always the focal point, but even that is an entity in its own right rather than a fixed building.

I think his connection with the Captain Britain Corps (and the Corps itself) could be quite interesting if approached correctly, but I don't feel like NEX has done that.

It hasn't really. I think, again, that Claremont assumes that if your reading NEX you read Excalibur and therefore know the corps. But in all honesty the Corps were never explored that greatly even back then. I'd always hoped we'd have had a mini-series showing Brian rebuilding the Corps after Excalibur vol. 2. But sadly that never happened.

I don't remember him in the Ellis Excalibur issues I have. Was he even a member then?

Oh, he was. But Ellis inherited him after Lobdell's 'Britannic' makeover. He was looking like some bizarre version of Fabio (Ad in a few odd issues an even more bizarre poodle perm mullet) in a red and blue jumpsuit, back then. Ellis decided to deconstruct him, had him stop being Captain Britain, and return to his science roots, converting Moira's craft into the Midnight Runner, Excalibur's equivalent of the Blackbird. He still went on missions, but the idea was that after having seen the whole timeline of human history during his time lost in the timestream he found the concept of fighting and killing to be rather pointless, and wanted no more of it.

Towards the climax of Ellis run he had Brian in filtrate the London Hellfire Club, assuming his Father's former title of Red Bishop to find out just what it was that they and Black Air were up to. He brought along an old Cap Costume he had been tinkering with, and by the end oft the arc was back in costume as Captain Britain.

Pete Wisdom I enjoy reading--when he's written correctly (*cough* by Ellis *cough*). In NEX he's been sorely mischaracterized as the team joke. I don't think he's a character that is particularly *likable*, but he is *interesting.* Again--in NEX he's been really annoying with all the lame passes at Sage (honestly...I'm thinking Ellis' Wisdom would tell Sage to f*ck off after one failed attempt with the snooty biatch and then move on...and blow smoke in her face from there on out )

Damn right he would have. He'd have showed a mixture of contempt, sarcasm and charm. In the end Sage would probably have warmed to him, but he certainly wouldn't have tried plying her with drink like some laughable teenager.

I resent the insinuation that people don't like the two characters because they're "British." That's a fairly heavy-handed assumption. British Psylocke is the only version of that character I like. And again--Wisdom is enjoyable to read.

Glad to hear it. I miss British Betsy, too. Sadly unless somebody like Carey gets his hands on Psylocke I don't think we'll see anybody with the right kind of clout to get that kind of thing explored again. Claremont failed to bring her back in her real body, after all.

Sword! You'd be so proud of me!

I met some fine British "blokes" at the bar last night. Though I really don't remember the details, but I think I said stuff like:
"YOU HAVE KYLIE MINOGUE THERE"
or
"Madonna owns like, 1/2 of the UK now, right?"
and
"You rich Brits! You so own a colony in South Africa or something to help pay for these travels, right?"

And I made a map of Great Britain from a cocktail napkin. They were quite taken by my loud Yank antics.

So now I am a little in <3 with UK people. Just thought I'd share?

Ha ha! You see Novaya, all these months of sparring on NEX threads had some kind of pay-off. ;)

You're right about that. I would be fine with more of the self-deprecation kind of Brit and/or American cool. I just like anything that supposed to be "hipper than thou" getting the subversive treatment. I didn't read the Wisdom series because i thought that might be the sum totality (nerd reference!) of the series, but if you think it has some more subversive elements like that, I might give it a try.
You know, though, I think I've LIVED that scene except with me in place of wisdom. ;)[/QUOTE

Ha ha. I think many of us have, sadly.

The Wisdom series wasn't too self deprecating in my opinion. Some complained at the through-line of Wisdom trying to contact Kitty Pryde throughout the series. It wasn't a major focus or anything. But I know a couple of more Kitty orientated fans wanted that forgotten about. ;)

[QUOTE=Cain Marko;5015417]I wouldn't say having been to Britain before qualifies as a "tie" to it. If that's the case most high-profile heroes have ties to Britain. Black Tom was a career criminal in Ireland, not the Juggernaut. The Juggernaut was purely American. And when he and Tom teamed up it was usually in the U.S. Cain's only tie to Britain, if it can be called that, is knowing an Irish guy. But since Tom and Cain were no longer partners-in-crime when NEX formed there's not even that.

That's questionable. It all depends on time scale, but I find it hard to believe that with the amount of time that Cain and Tom spent in Ireland that they didn't have contacts and links to the UK underworld. Because Tom was player in that circuit, and everybody knew that he and Cain were inseparable at that time. Heck, Cain had to have done something to have wound up imprisoned in Crossmore, rather than been deported back to the USA. It's always been a period which has not been explained in panel, and frankly I'm pleased that Claremont has tried to fill in some blanks.

I know that you have insisted that Cain was only being tried for the chaos he caused in the first arc of NEX, but Cain's rap sheet is much longer than that in the UK. It's not like he ever served a full term at Crossmore. Other charges still carried over from that.

But we all know Wisdom's made them disappear, for now ;)

[Cain Marko]

That's questionable. It all depends on time scale, but I find it hard to believe that with the amount of time that Cain and Tom spent in Ireland that they didn't have contacts and links to the UK underworld. Because Tom was player in that circuit, and everybody knew that he and Cain were inseparable at that time.

Maybe as friends they were inseparable but not locationwise. Living in the U.S. as he did, Cain was rarely involved in Tom's dealings across the pond.


Heck, Cain had to have done something to have wound up imprisoned in Crossmore, rather than been deported back to the USA.

Yes. He went on a huge, murderous rampage in the middle of the day. Creating large explosions in the streets, slingling vehicles into places of business, and collapsing public buildings. So they arrested him and sent him to Crossmore. From there he was teleported out of Crossmore straight back to the United States.



I know that you have insisted that Cain was only being tried for the chaos he caused in the first arc of NEX, but Cain's rap sheet is much longer than that in the UK. It's not like he ever served a full term at Crossmore.


I think what I insisted was that the story was dumb for having a trial in the first place. Because as you said, Cain already had major standing charges in the UK. Standing charges so severe that you may recall that Captain Britain was sent to New York to recapture Cain because the UK government wanted him badly for what he did there. He obviously wouldn't need a trial for being too clumsy to cross the street. Which made that whole sequence of events in NEX rather asinine.



Other charges still carried over from that. But we all know Wisdom's made them disappear, for now. ;)

Well I won't go into how contrived it is for the Crown, due to some unstated reason, to suddenly want a known sociopath with very little useful power to have his record cleared. But needless to say it was pretty contrived. A good Wisdom moment though.

[Babylon23]

My greatest exposure to Captain Britain has been NEX. A book where a lot seems to revolve around him, but ironically...I feel like very little has been done with him specifically. He has more of a "boyscout--for mother and country" air to him in the book and that's about it. The lack of reactions to Meggan and Psylocke have been rather odd as well--making it seem like he doesn't really...care?

Yeah, this has been my main problem with the book. Cap is being used more as a plot device than as a character. While many complain about the characterisation of the other members, at least there is some level of characterisation (no matter how misplaced it might be). Cap's only role in the book so far has been to make some speeches and join in for fights.

All the mystical connections to Otherworld, Roma, and Merlyn don't help draw me towards him either. I just find Roma a complete bore. And I've never cared for super-hero characters that are strongly tied to mystical elements, which is why I've always avoided Dr. Strange books like the plague. I think his connection with the Captain Britain Corps (and the Corps itself) could be quite interesting if approached correctly, but I don't feel like NEX has done that. I don't remember him in the Ellis Excalibur issues I have. Was he even a member then?

I like the connections to Otherworld, Merlyn and Roma, but they haven't really been presented in NEX much at all, other than Albion's links. If you can (and if you're intersted), check out the Alan Moore/Alan Davis Captain Britain trade for an example of how the Otherworld connection can be well handled.

I resent the insinuation that people don't like the two characters because they're "British." That's a fairly heavy-handed assumption. British Psylocke is the only version of that character I like. And again--Wisdom is enjoyable to read.

Man would I love to see Betsy back in her British body. Unfortunately, I'm not Marvel marketing.

[Babylon23]

Three cheers for double posts.

[The Sword Is Drawn]

Maybe as friends they were inseparable but not locationwise. Living in the U.S. as he did, Cain was rarely involved in Tom's dealings across the pond.

But again, how do we know that he wasn't going backwards and forwards between the two? Cain wasn't involved in an ongoing title. There's huge gaps of time where nobody knows where he is, and one might assume that it is perfectly viable that he and Tom were in the British Isles for large parts of that. That's what Claremont appears to be writing in. But it's also what I also always assumed was the case.

Yes. He went on a huge, murderous rampage in the middle of the day. Creating large explosions in the streets, slingling vehicles into places of business, and collapsing public buildings. So they arrested him and sent him to Crossmore. From there he was teleported out of Crossmore straight back to the United States.

Who teleported him out? I genuinely don't remember, now.

I think what I insisted was that the story was dumb for having a trial in the first place. Because as you said, Cain already had major standing charges in the UK. Standing charges so severe that you may recall that Captain Britain was sent to New York to recapture Cain because the UK government wanted him badly for what he did there. He obviously wouldn't need a trial for being too clumsy to cross the street. Which made that whole sequence of events in NEX rather asinine.

I always read it as just a way of getting the guy back into court to put him away again. Any opportunity, you know? I certainly think the reasoning could have been made clearer though.

Well I won't go into how contrived it is for the Crown, due to some unstated reason, to suddenly want a known sociopath with very little useful power to have his record cleared. But needless to say it was pretty contrived. A good Wisdom moment though.

You can understand why Wisdom might want him on his team though. I mean Wisdom's no angel himself. Here's a guy that comitted atrocitries and terrorist acts himself in the name of his country. He may see, in Cain, a kindred spirit to a degree, and believe if he levels with the guy he could be a great asset. I mean he's the freakin' Juggernaut - an unstoppable damage magnet. Who's going to be willing to stand up to that? ;)

Yeah, this has been my main problem with the book. Cap is being used more as a plot device than as a character. While many complain about the characterisation of the other members, at least there is some level of characterisation (no matter how misplaced it might be). Cap's only role in the book so far has been to make some speeches and join in for fights.

Yeah. I mean don't get me wrong, some of those speeches were genuinely needed, but at the same time there's parts of them which just don't feel like it's Brian even speaking them.

I like the connections to Otherworld, Merlyn and Roma, but they haven't really been presented in NEX much at all, other than Albion's links. If you can (and if you're intersted), check out the Alan Moore/Alan Davis Captain Britain trade for an example of how the Otherworld connection can be well handled.

Indeed. I think Claremont's stylisation has made Otherworld come across as a bit stale. I dunno, it's something which I think he may explore better over in eXiles, but I don't think it's really sold many people on NEX.

Man would I love to see Betsy back in her British body. Unfortunately, I'm not Marvel marketing.

And that really is the bottom line. It's the same with most of the team member of the 90s X-Explosion. Changing them too far from all the marketting bumpf is never going to be an easy battle. Regardless of how good a story it would actually make.

[Cain Marko]

But again, how do we know that he wasn't going backwards and forwards between the two? Cain wasn't involved in an ongoing title. There's huge gaps of time where nobody knows where he is, and one might assume that it is perfectly viable that he and Tom were in the British Isles for large parts of that. That's what Claremont appears to be writing in. But it's also what I also always assumed was the case.

I don't know why one would assume that. The Juggernaut may not have had an ongoing but he had a frequent succession of guest appearences which give us an idea of what he does and where he does it. I mean it's possible he's been to Britain a brief time or two more between appearences, sure. But since he's an American it seems odd to assume that when we don't see him that he's in Britain of all places.



Who teleported him out? I genuinely don't remember, now.


Loki I believe.


You can understand why Wisdom might want him on his team though. I mean Wisdom's no angel himself. Here's a guy that comitted atrocitries and terrorist acts himself in the name of his country. He may see, in Cain, a kindred spirit to a degree, and believe if he levels with the guy he could be a great asset. I mean he's the freakin' Juggernaut - an unstoppable damage magnet. Who's going to be willing to stand up to that?

No, he was the Juggernaut. By the time of NEX he hadn't been the Juggernaut for some time and many were willing to stand up to him just fine. As shown by Captain Britain watching the Juggernaut-less Cain again get beat down for the umpteenth time in the House of M story. And Captain Britain himself throwing Cain around with no problem in NEX. There's no visible reason why anyone would feel Cain's little bit of power was such an asset that they'd clear him of multiple capital crimes to get it. Wisdom could have put an ad in the paper and found a more valuable guy. And one who, you know, isn't a wanted terrorist who killed who knows how many people last time he was in town. ;)

Actually, even moreso than Wisdom I'm surprised there wasn't any protest from Captain Britain. It seems he more than anyone else would have had some objections.

[Frank]

Captain Britain was great in the old Excalibur run with CC and A Davis. He had this temper and given his strenght he was pretty badass.

[The Sword Is Drawn]

Captain Britain was great in the old Excalibur run with CC and A Davis. He had this temper and given his strenght he was pretty badass.

That was what I loved about Brian. He was far from level headed, and could fly into rages when he lost his temper. Or why he got p**sed up on whiskey ;) But it was the fact that he had this collossal power and a role to play - and yet wasn't always that great at it - which made the character work.

Currently Claremont has suddenly decide to play him like Superman - a flawless superhero, minus the kryptonite weakness. And not only does that go against the character in the past but frankly I find it just as fundamentally dull as I generally find Superman...

If somebody Otherworldite I will not be a happy bunny...:mad:

[david r]

I love your avatar, The Sword is Drawn. If Claremont does get fired from NEX, I hope he does that act to Joe Quesada. :p

[The Sword Is Drawn]

I love your avatar, The Sword is Drawn. If Claremont does get fired from NEX, I hope he does that act to Joe Quesada. :p

Lol. Only if Chris has to dress up a Wisdom...

NOTE: If anybody has keen photoshop skills, the pic is the cover to Wisdom #5 and this is your time.

[Slung]

That was what I loved about Brian. He was far from level headed, and could fly into rages when he lost his temper. Or why he got p**sed up on whiskey ;) But it was the fact that he had this collossal power and a role to play - and yet wasn't always that great at it - which made the character work.

Currently Claremont has suddenly decide to play him like Superman - a flawless superhero, minus the kryptonite weakness. And not only does that go against the character in the past but frankly I find it just as fundamentally dull as I generally find Superman...

If somebody Otherworldite I will not be a happy bunny...:mad:
I definitely remember alcoholic, abusive Brian. He was a great (and obnoxious) character. He'd get drunk and throw things at Meggan, she'd cry and go make out with Nightcrawler all innocent like, then Brian would go make out with Courtney, Nightcrawler would push Meggan away, she'd pretend like she had a half a brain and try to talk with Kitty about it, Brian would realize he'd been a jerk and would cry and say how sorry he was to Meggan. They'd makeout. Rinse and repeat.

[The Sword Is Drawn]

I definitely remember alcoholic, abusive Brian. He was a great (and obnoxious) character. He'd get drunk and throw things at Meggan, she'd cry and go make out with Nightcrawler all innocent like, then Brian would go make out with Courtney, Nightcrawler would push Meggan away, she'd pretend like she had a half a brain and try to talk with Kitty about it, Brian would realize he'd been a jerk and would cry and say how sorry he was to Meggan. They'd makeout. Rinse and repeat.

To be fair you have pretty much just paraphrased the entire first few issues of Excalibur, minus the superhero bits... ;)

But there wasn't much repeat afterwards as Inferno happened (Remember the days when Excalibur were allowed to be PART of a crossover... ?) and then the team had kind of buggered off across the multiverse, by mistake.

[Slung]

To be fair you have pretty much just paraphrased the entire first few issues of Excalibur, minus the superhero bits... ;)

But there wasn't much repeat afterwards as Inferno happened (Remember the days when Excalibur were allowed to be PART of a crossover... ?) and then the team had kind of buggered off across the multiverse, by mistake.
I know, it was just fun to try to really boil down the relationships :).

[david r]

Bwa Ha Haha

[The Sword Is Drawn]

I know, it was just fun to try to really boil down the relationships :).

And yopu didn't really do a bad job either. Although Meggan didn't actually make out with Kurt, she just kind of became in synch with him, and twisted into a blu fuzzy elf version of herself, subliminally. She couldn't really control her powers back then... ;)

[Citizen V]

But i would think that something could have been there.

[The Sword Is Drawn]

But i would think that something could have been there.

The tension always was. It was built up for a good long while. But Kurt was too much of a gentleman to have allowed anything to have happened.

[The Sword Is Drawn]

Double post. Damned forum. :(

[jarrod]

Kurt also admitted later on to Brian it was just fantasy on his end, that he didn't love Meggan.

[streator]

last night i bought (among other things) pryde and wisdom 1 (already owned 2-3) and the remaining excalibur (1st series) ellis issues i was missing.

no lack of love here for wisdom.

[The Sword Is Drawn]

last night i bought (among other things) pryde and wisdom 1 (already owned 2-3) and the remaining excalibur (1st series) ellis issues i was missing.

no lack of love here for wisdom.

Welcome, comrade. Pull up a seat, and have drink :D

Those were good times. I just wished they'd lasted a year or so longer. :(