-=The All-Purpose METAL Thread=- [Archive] - Comic Book Resources Forums

Brad Barton

06-25-2007, 02:32 AM

This is a thread for all admirers, fans and followers of Heavy Metal music, in all it's various forms and styles. Thrash, Hardcore, Death, Speed, Grindcore, Punk, any other form of Metal music and all the bands that fall under that umbrella-- discuss them here.

This thread started out strictly a Metallica thread, so I'll leave the original post. They're the quintessental Metal band anyway, very fitting start for a metal thread...

Metallica. One of the greatest (if not the greatest) Heavy Metal bands of all-time. Writers of metal classics like Enter Sandman, Master of Puppets, Seek & Destroy, Sad But True, For Whom the Bell Tolls and so on, they've sold over 100 Million albums in 25 years..

Over the past few years their celebrity has been waning a bit, and expectations for their new album, the release date of which has been pushed back several times and is now described as "hopefully being out by Summer 2008", will really spell out the future for the band...I'm a longtime fan and am looking forward to the new album, but the release pushbacks have got me and other fans pretty irked, it's been almost 5 years since St. Anger and that's pushing it for any band...(well, except maybe the Stones).

So, let's discuss Metallica...
What are your thoughts on the new album?
Did you like their last album (St. Anger)?
What's your favorite Metallica song?
Do you subscribe to the school of "Metallica sold out"?
Do you prefer new or old Metallica?
Which bassist was best, Cliff, Jason or Rob?

Post pics, video-links or anything else METAL related. You can even post comic references if you can find them....and trust me, they're out there.

Spike-X

06-25-2007, 03:29 AM

...their new album, the release date of which has been pushed back several times and is now described as "hopefully being out by Summer 2008", will really spell out the future for the band...

Has any album that's taken that long to make ever been any good?

TheLazy

06-25-2007, 05:13 AM

Has any album that's taken that long to make ever been any good?

Tool's 10,000 Days took 6 years to complete and it's genius.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=bqzyUdPxjqE

So, let's discuss Metallica...

What are your thoughts on the new album?
I hope that they don't go in the weird experimental/rough sounding way that they did on St Anger, but I hope they don't try to return to their thrash roots either because they're going to fall flat on their asses doing so. New bands like Trivium, Mastodon, and Killswtch Engage are giving metal a fresh face, and I doubt Metallica want to keep up with the intensity that the new bands are playing at. I wouldn't mind a solid rock effort like The Black Album or an acoustic recording: these guys have proven they can write ballads.

Judging from the two new songs on youtube, I don't like the 1st (http://youtube.com/watch?v=H1CCiwd6UZs) song , "The New Song" as it tries to return to Puppets/Justce era songs, but I quite like the Misfits style they've gone with on the 2nd (http://youtube.com/watch?v=GNMzWCOEFfU) song, "The Other New Song".

Did you like their last album (St. Anger)?
Songs like St. Anger, Some Kind of Monster, and All Within my Hands showed potential, but started to fall apart towards the end. Perhaps if the had been a bit more conservative with the editing then this would have been an okay/solid effort, bu these mistake mixed with shit like Frantic or Sweet Amber, and THAT drum sound, make this album a disgrace. It really is a shame that albums like this sell 5 million copies because of the name on the front, yet The End of Heartache struggles to get to 500,000 and Blood Mountain can't even half that. Let me add that Metallica are my favourate band, but they have become shadow of their former selfs.

What's your favorite Metallica song?
I have a few. Blackened has a nice snakey riff, and shows an interesting take on a thrash song. Leper Messiah has that memorable chorus, as does Master of Puppets. Dyers Eve has a good thundering intro, its too hard to choose.

Do you subscribe to the school of "Metallica sold out"?
I don't think they sold out, as much as they lost their roots, and as such, their mojo. The Napster thing was one big pis all over the fans though.

Do you prefer new or old Metallica?
Oldschool easily. They've had like 5-6 good songs since 1990, compared with 5 near perfect albums from KEA to The Black Album

Which bassist was best, Cliff, Jason or Rob?
Since their qualtiy subsided gradually after Cliff died then I'm inlined not to say Jason. Hell he can't even be heard on ...And Justice for All. And remember that Bob Rock did the bass for St Anger so Rob hasn't recorded any material yet, so he hasn't really had a chance to prove himself with 'Tallica, his stuff with Suicidal Tendancies is cool though. I'll wait and see, but for now it's Cliff. I think a better question would be Hammet vs Mustain (and possibly Lloyd Grant?)

:)

cactusmaac

06-25-2007, 07:26 AM

What are your thoughts on the new album?

Not getting my hopes up. Rubin split his time working with Slayer, U2, Metallica and Linkin Park so I doubt he influenced much of it.

Did you like their last album (St. Anger)?

It was shit.

What's your favorite Metallica song?

Fade To Black.

Do you subscribe to the school of "Metallica sold out"?

No, I just don't enjoy their most recent albums although a few tracks and covers here and there have been pretty good.

Do you prefer new or old Metallica?

Old.

Which bassist was best, Cliff, Jason or Rob?

No opinion either way.

leonaozaki

06-25-2007, 08:57 AM

Which bassist was best, Cliff, Jason or Rob?
Since their qualtiy subsided gradually after Cliff died then I'm inlined not to say Jason. Hell he can't even be heard on ...And Justice for All.

The reason Jason can't be heard on ...And Justice for All is that James and Lars turned his playing so far down in the mix that you can't hear it. On occasion I have, while listening very closely, detected a bass note. But it's not Jason's fault. It was a hazing ritual for Jason Newkid.

rob

leonaozaki

06-25-2007, 09:06 AM

What are your thoughts on the new album?

They have a new album coming out? Really? I suppose they could have a late-career resurrection like Maiden or Priest, but it seems unlikely.

Did you like their last album (St. Anger)?

I did not.

What's your favorite Metallica song?

Oooh, too many to choose from. I know this is cliched, but it's probably "Master of Puppets."

Do you subscribe to the school of "Metallica sold out"?

No, but like one poster said, they just lost sight of their roots. I liked Load and Reload but James and Lars just don't seem to have the song-writing chops anymore, which is sad.

Do you prefer new or old Metallica?

Well, like I said, I liked their 90's albums, so the only phase of Metallica I don't like is the one that recorded St. Anger and made a movie out of going through therapy.

Which bassist was best, Cliff, Jason or Rob?

Cliff, definitely. Jason was good, don't get me wrong, but never really got the chance to prove himself and step out of Cliff's shadow. But then Cliff was a wizard on the bass guitar. Just listen to "Anesthesia."

Post pics, video-links or anything else Metallica related. You can even post comic references if you can find them....and trust me, they're out there.

Oh, I've seen a comic telling Metallica's story. It's pretty hilarious.

rob

TheLazy

06-25-2007, 09:09 AM

The reason Jason can't be heard on ...And Justice for All is that James and Lars turned his playing so far down in the mix that you can't hear it. On occasion I have, while listening very closely, detected a bass note. But it's not Jason's fault. It was a hazing ritual for Jason Newkid.

rob

Yeah I read that in the book, I was just pointing out that You can't really compare Jason to cliff because he's had one good album to strut his stuff on (the black album) cliff had three.

:)

ImpulseUCF

06-25-2007, 09:16 AM

What are your thoughts on the new album?
What new album?? I haven't seen any new album since 2003. Oh, they keep talking about it, and I hope it's good, but I'm not sure there will be a place for it regardless of how they do it. They have said it has a middle-Eastern vibe and was heavily influenced by the Master of Puppets album as they played it straight through live all last summer. Who knows? They have said it will sound less like St. Anger; they tuned the guitars back up, there will be solos, and only parts of "The New Song" and "The Other New Song" will make it onto the album. Kirk said that since they've been playing more like they did in the 80s that James is singing more like he did in the 80s rather than 90s, but who knows.

I don't see them approaching the ferocity of newer bands like Trivium, but maybe a slot fast album with some of their pop-friendly stuff a la Enter Sandman would work. I would love a blend of Master of Puppets, Battery, Sanitarium and Enter Sandman. Heaven. :)

Did you like their last album (St. Anger)?
I loved the shit out of that album. It takes some getting used to, and you have to accept it for what it is and not to what it is not. I love it, particularly Invisible Kid, Sweet Amber, Unnamed Feeling, Purify, Shoot Me Again...Love it. I think it they had finished it, added some solos, arranged it a little better and cleaned it up it would have been their best in a decade, but I still like it for what it is.

What's your favorite Metallica song?
Do you really expect anyone to be able to answer this? It changed with my mood. Past favorites have included Hit the Lights, Motorbreath, Four Horsemen, For Whom the Bell Tolls, Creeping Death, Battery, Puppets, Orion, And Justice for All, Blackened, The Cure, Bleeding Me, Memory Remains (for like 5 minutes)... see, hard to choose.

Do you subscribe to the school of "Metallica sold out"?
Nah. They got bored with what they were doing and explored other options, made some money, etc. Do you like doing the same thing for over a decade? I think the Napster thing is going to be a black mark on their record for perpetuity.

Do you prefer new or old Metallica?
On the whole, I'd say old because they had so many albums that were just phenomonal from start to finish. I can listen to Kill Em All, Lightning and Puppets start to finish without skipping anything. I'll skip one or two on Justice, I'll only listen to 4 or 5 on Black, I LOVE Load... yes, it's completely different, but it's a great bluesy rock album. ReLoad...ehh, there's about 5 songs I like. I love about half og St. Anger... Hmmm. Old it is.

Which bassist was best, Cliff, Jason or Rob?
I don't know. I can't hear any of them on the damn records! If I strain my ears I can almost hear Cliff on Puppets, but the bass is so hidden behind the guitars that it's hard to tell.

jesse_custer

06-25-2007, 09:42 AM

What are your thoughts on the new album?

I hope it's good. I'm starting to lose hope with Metallica, though.

Did you like their last album (St. Anger)?

Absolutely not. The guitar riffs were generic, the snare drum sounded like a garbage can, and the vocals included both whining and nu-metal esque driveling. And the lyrics were laughable. I know they were aiming to do something raw, but you don't aim to do something raw. You're either raw, or you're not. Goddamn amateurs.

What's your favorite Metallica song?

Probably "Master of Puppets." Not an original choice at all, but the lyrics are concrete enough to make a good point but open enough for personal interpretation. Beyond that, it has some of the best damn guitar playing I've ever heard.

Do you subscribe to the school of "Metallica sold out"?

Kind of. I think that movie they made was pretty stupid and superficial. On the other hand, I think it's just evolution for the most part. For the worst, unfortunately.

Do you prefer new or old Metallica?

I think the answer to this is pretty obvious now.

Which bassist was best, Cliff, Jason or Rob?

Cliff all the way. He wins because I can hear him more than the other two.

jesse_custer

06-25-2007, 12:19 PM

Tool routinely takes four or five years to record albums.

stealthwise

06-25-2007, 12:55 PM

What are your thoughts on the new album?
No idea. Last time I drove myself nuts by looking for new information every single day for like, three years, and it was too much. Now, I just check out news here and there or posts like this one. If I don't think about it, the wait won't be so unbearable.

Did you like their last album (St. Anger)?
Yes, although it was deeply flawed in parts, but I'm hopeful that the band has learned from those mistakes. Songs like "Some Kind of Monster" and "Unnamed Feeling" are excellent, although better sound quality would have worked.

What's your favorite Metallica song?
"The Outlaw Torn," which is so heavy and epic.

Do you subscribe to the school of "Metallica sold out"?
No, although I got into the band through Reload and Load, then found the old stuff and screamed "SELL OUT!" as long and loud as anyone for a few years. Now I'm much more open-minded. :)

Do you prefer new or old Metallica?
To be honest it depends on the day and my mood. Could swing either way, although "old" Metallica has a much more impressive and higher-quality output on the whole.

Which bassist was best, Cliff, Jason or Rob?
Cliff was definitely the most skilled, as far as I can tell, Jason had the most energy and love of music, and Rob seems like an awesome guy and a great player.

Brad Barton

06-25-2007, 01:01 PM

Do you subscribe to the school of "Metallica sold out"?
No, although I got into the band through Reload and Load, then found the old stuff and screamed "SELL OUT!" as long and loud as anyone for a few years. Now I'm much more open-minded. :)This is exactly what I did too. Bought Load and loved it, then through Load went back and found the older material, then screamed they'd sold out because of Load, lol...

Ah, good times....;)

TheLazy

06-25-2007, 01:19 PM

This is exactly what I did too. Bought Load and loved it, then through Load went back and found the older material, then screamed they'd sold out because of Load, lol...

Ah, good times....;)

Ditto. I found it funny that most of the people screaming selll out were no older than 10 when Puppets came out:D

:)

jesse_custer

06-25-2007, 02:04 PM

TheLazy is right about Mastodon being the new face of metal. They are different from Metallica in many ways, but they remind me of Metallica's passion and innovation during the 1980s.

Brad Barton

06-25-2007, 03:50 PM

TheLazy is right about Mastodon being the new face of metal. They are different from Metallica in many ways, but they remind me of Metallica's passion and innovation during the 1980s.Don't care much for Mastodon or any other bands with cookie-monster vocals...which is why I hated the "New wave of American Metal" bands like Trivium till they ditched the demon growling and started putting a little melody in the vocals...

Pantera is the only metal band in history that has been able to, or will ever be able to pull off flat out screaming through an entire song and get away with it...for everyone else (with a few exceptions [Lamb of God, Chimaira]) it really just comes off seeming like they can't sing, so instead they scream...

My all-time top 5:
Metallica
Megadeth
Pantera (only "scream" band that makes my list)
Black Sabbath
Gov't Mule

TheLazy

06-25-2007, 04:13 PM

TheLazy is right about Mastodon being the new face of metal. They are different from Metallica in many ways, but they remind me of Metallica's passion and innovation during the 1980s.

Glad to see these guys aren't being totally shun by the world.;)

Don't care much for Mastodon or any other bands with cookie-monster vocals...which is why I hated the "New wave of American Metal" bands like Trivium till they ditched the demon growling and started putting a little melody in the vocals...

Pantera is the only metal band in history that has been able to, or will ever be able to pull off flat out screaming through an entire song and get away with it...for everyone else (with a few exceptions [Lamb of God, Chimaira]) it really just comes off seeming like they can't sing, so instead they scream...

My all-time top 5:
Metallica
Megadeth
Pantera (only "scream" band that makes my list)
Black Sabbath
Gov't Mule

Cookie monster vocals? please. Mastodon are about as far away from metalcore as you could get in todays metal markets. I personally think they've got a wailing sound, not quite falsetto but definately not grunting.

Also, if slay taught the world anything its that kick ass music with shit ass vocals still equals kick ass song.;)

Back to 'tallica.

Did anyone else bring a drink through their nostrles when they heard about james pouring vodka on his frosties whilst hunting in siberia?:D

:)

leonaozaki

06-25-2007, 08:13 PM

Ditto. I found it funny that most of the people screaming selll out were no older than 10 when Puppets came out:D

:)

I got into Metallica in the dim dead of time of 1987 and Master of Puppets, and I remember when people were screaming "sell-out" at them for making a video (the horror!) for "One." Of course, that was nothing compared to the outrage that the Black album inspired. I was standing in a record store in L.A. when I overheard the clerk saying how much he'd hated the Black album and how he was going to write them a letter complaining! Ha ha ha.

rob

Brad Barton

06-25-2007, 10:33 PM

I got into Metallica in the dim dead of time of 1987 and Master of Puppets, and I remember when people were screaming "sell-out" at them for making a video (the horror!) for "One." Of course, that was nothing compared to the outrage that the Black album inspired. I was standing in a record store in L.A. when I overheard the clerk saying how much he'd hated the Black album and how he was going to write them a letter complaining! Ha ha ha.

robHey, you know what....maybe they got that letter, and that single record shop clerk's bitching is responsible for the Load albums....the bastard.

Actually, I like the Loads too. When I ask almost anyone if they like Metallica or not, the answer is always, always "Yeah, but just their old stuff"...and I'm sitting here thinking "You asshole, you and I both know the only song you know of theirs is Enter Sandman....and lemme tell you something buddy, Enter Sandman ain't "old"

So thats the new stock answer for people who don't know much about Metallica when asked if they like them "yeah, but just the old stuff"

If someone ever tells you that, put them on the spot and say "Oh yeah? Which songs?...I guarantee you they'll say something like "uuhhmm..ahh...The Sandman, I like that one....and for whom the bells toll are my favorites, but I like Sad Patrol too..."

Man In Black

06-25-2007, 11:49 PM

Metallica were a great band at one time...now they're a bunch of rich, whiney old men...better to look at the times they were great than the Nostalgia act they've become.

stealthwise

06-26-2007, 12:36 AM

I kinda agree with beetheb about the new metal bands, they have a good understanding of musicianship and energy, but don't work for me much at all. I do like some Devildriver and Machine Head (who have been around for years) though.

stealthwise

06-26-2007, 12:37 AM

Metallica were a great band at one time...now they're a bunch of rich, whiney old men...better to look at the times they were great than the Nostalgia act they've become.

Have you actually seen them live? They can still rock it. Hard.

Brad Barton

06-26-2007, 02:42 AM

Have you actually seen them live? They can still rock it. Hard.Hell yes they can, they're actually playing the first date of the Summer tour in Europe on wednsday....and I'd bet my ass they're gonna unveil a new song first night out....

Originally Posted by Man In Black
Metallica were a great band at one time...now they're a bunch of rich, whiney old men....Then why waste your time here talking about them?

TheLazy

06-26-2007, 07:56 AM

Hell yes they can, they're actually playing the first date of the Summer tour in Europe on wednsday....and I'd bet my ass they're gonna unveil a new song first night out....

Guess who's going to Wembley:evilsmile

'tallica w/ support from mastodon, the only way it could get any better is if Killswitch Engage showed up.

:)

jesse_custer

06-26-2007, 11:58 AM

Mastodon doesn't have cookie-cutter monster vocals. In fact, on the new album Blood Mountain, they utilize several different types of vocals.

Brad Barton

06-26-2007, 01:10 PM

Guess who's going to Wembley:evilsmile

'tallica w/ support from mastodon, the only way it could get any better is if Killswitch Engage showed up.

:)Man, those Wembley tickets sold out in like 2 or 3 hours, you must've been on the ticketmaster site with your credit card at the ready when they went on sale :D

I'm definitely going to be seeing them when they tour the U.S. next year (it was supposed to be this year :evilangry ) I've seen them twice already but my wife wants to see 'em, and I'm making her get up and rock, no staying in the seat Bull$hit.....anyway, rock ass at Wembley man, bring us back some pics or something!

Man In Black

06-26-2007, 10:46 PM

Mastodon doesn't have cookie-cutter monster vocals. In fact, on the new album Blood Mountain, they utilize several different types of vocals.Mastodon are alright, but I wouldnt call them "the new face of metal"...if I called anyone that it would be Trivium or Machinehead.

Brad Barton

06-27-2007, 03:25 AM

Mastodon are alright, but I wouldnt call them "the new face of metal"...if I called anyone that it would be Trivium or Machinehead.Trivium are great....heavily influenced by Metallica and Megadeth, I thought the Crusade was awesome, even though they try too hard on a few songs to make them radio-friendly...I usually just skip past those and enjoy the rest of the album.

jesse_custer

06-27-2007, 12:34 PM

TheLazy

06-27-2007, 12:44 PM

Trivium is too generic for my tastes and seem to compromise too much. Mastodon comes out on their first major label record and records insanely progressive three-minute growl and guitar fests, complete with drumming that almost spirals out of control. It's almost as if they want to lose their record deal. That's metal.

Yeah, trivium are good but they follow the 'next tallica' tag too much. Mastodon got a lot of flak from fans about selling out with the eclectic styles, so what do they do, sell out some more. Now you can't seriously tell me that doesn't sound like Metallica.:D

:)

Rattlehead

06-27-2007, 01:22 PM

What are your thoughts on the new album?
From what I've heard of it, not very much. There's certainly nothing there that justifies yet another 5 year layover.

Did you like their last album (St. Anger)?
No, a 1,000 times no. Every song was 3-4 minutes too long, the riffs were terribly boring, James wailed horribly off-key for most of it, Bob Rock can't play Bass, and the Drums have been discussed to death. For band of their caliber and talent, it was inexcusable garbage.

What's your favorite Metallica song?
Eithier Motorbreath or Phantom Lord. Any song from Kill Em All would qualify really.

Do you subscribe to the school of "Metallica sold out"?
They are clearly more worried about money than music these days. I hesitated to use the sell-out word with them, but Some Kind of Monster confirmed my doubts about the bands integrity.

Do you prefer new or old Metallica?
I'm a Thrash Metal head, so Old naturally. Although several of their Thrash Metal peers were outclassing them in terms of musicianship back in the 80's. Any Overkill album from the same era blows away anything Metallica was doing.

Which bassist was best, Cliff, Jason or Rob?
Cliff was something special, but Jason did some awesome Basswork with Voivod. It's a shame he didn't get to showcase his talent in Metallica. Rob hasn't officially recorded anything with them yet. I'll go with Cliff since not many Bassists could have pulled off Anesthesia.

jesse_custer

06-27-2007, 01:41 PM

Mastodon got a lot of flak from fans about selling out with the eclectic styles, so what do they do, sell out some more.

I guess one could argue that Mastodon "sold out." However, in the strictest sense of the phrase, I think one would have a tough argument to follow. That is, how has Mastodon become anymore radio friendly with their major label debut?

TheLazy

06-27-2007, 02:02 PM

I guess one could argue that Mastodon "sold out." However, in the strictest sense of the phrase, I think one would have a tough argument to follow. That is, how has Mastodon become anymore radio friendly with their major label debut?

I mean that purely in the sense that they are no longer a definitive sludge metal band, hell some songs on Leviathan and Blood Mountain you'd be hard pressed to pigeonhole into a genre. Thats whats great about them. remember back in the day nobody thought that you could put a strong melodic passage in the middle of a thrash song, and no one thought that songs about mental illness could catch on like songs about the devil.

:)

Brad Barton

06-27-2007, 07:45 PM

Mastodon comes out on their first major label record and records insanely progressive three-minute growl and guitar fests, complete with drumming that almost spirals out of control. It's almost as if they want to lose their record deal. That's metal.lol, Word.

Brad Barton

06-27-2007, 07:47 PM

Which bassist was best, Cliff, Jason or Rob?[/B]
Cliff was something special, but Jason did some awesome Basswork with Voivod. It's a shame he didn't get to showcase his talent in Metallica. Rob hasn't officially recorded anything with them yet. I'll go with Cliff since not many Bassists could have pulled off Anesthesia.That is a bit of a loaded question, I'll admit, as there aren't many bass players in history to hold a candle to Cliff....once they get to that talent level, it's a pretty exclusive club, y'know?

cactusmaac

06-28-2007, 04:22 PM

TheLazy

06-28-2007, 04:32 PM

Not really a fan of Trivium and Mastodon. Trivium just don't sound very special and Mastodon bore me. Red Sparowes, High On Fire and Isis are more to my liking.

Was thinking of going to see Metallica but I already saw Megadeth and work demands will keep me away from London for a while.

I think Isis' main problem is that they are ahead of their time. Maybe in 10 years they'll become one of those cult bands like Refused or The Misfits, but I don't see anything happening this decade.

:)

Brad Barton

06-28-2007, 10:40 PM

Decided that this forum needs a Metal thread, and since we've been discussing far outside of Metallica on this one, I figured why not run with it and just make this the all-around Heavy Metal thread

TheLazy

06-28-2007, 10:50 PM

Decided that this forum needs a Metal thread, and since we've been discussing far outside of Metallica on this one, I figured why not run with it and just make this the all-around Heavy Metal thread

I think that was decided the moment you posted the thread dude (see what I did there;) ), considering that Metallica haven't released a metal album for the better part of two decades, and that they were the driving force in metal before that, it's only natural that modern comparisons will be made.

Since we're broadening this discussion, what are peoples thoughts of Nu-metal? A year or so ago, I was with the masses in thinking that nu-metal was metal's inbred cousin that is usually best to disown, but I think that now a period is coming where I'm starting to appreciate the true innovators again, bands like Linkin Park and System of a Down.

:)

howyadoin

06-28-2007, 10:52 PM

My thoughts on Metallica? I liked them a lot more before I saw that fucking movie.

Brad Barton

06-28-2007, 11:58 PM

I think that was decided the moment you posted the thread dude (see what I did there;) ),I swear, as I read that, I heard Walters voice sayin' it...

Since we're broadening this discussion, what are peoples thoughts of Nu-metal? A year or so ago, I was with the masses in thinking that nu-metal was metal's inbred cousin that is usually best to disown, but I think that now a period is coming where I'm starting to appreciate the true innovators again, bands like Linkin Park and System of a Down.

:)Yes, I agree that "Nu-Metal" bands are routinely dumped on by people into more hardcore and underground stuff, but I don't think they're SO bad, at least not all of them. bands like Disturbed, Linkin Park and Godsmack have a lot of aggression, they're just not pure aggression.

I try to find the best in any music I listen to, and rarely is it hard for me to find some good quality in anything I listen to (but most Rap is shite). For instance I can listen to a few Limp Bizkit songs that aren't too bad, but that's not necessarily saying I'm a fan.

So yeah, as with any genre, Nu-Metal has some good, and some bad. I can tell you who i thought were the best to come out of the whole movement (if you wanna call it that)

Creed- More for Tremonti's riffs than anything else, early Creed had some excellent riffage going on.

Godsmack- No bullshit, pure, dumb metal. That doesn't try to be anything else.

Disturbed- Can actually pull off some pretty intricate arrangements, and while sometimes Draimans voice can get a little old, I'll admit he does put some pretty interesting vocal hooks over Donegans quirky riffs.

Korn- I wouldn't really label Nu-Metal, IMO they've transcended that label, even though they are accused of being one of the bands who kicked it off....I like some of their stuff, and though there's not much diversity, I'll admit the band has a powerful and unique sound all it's own that no other band has quite been able to duplicate.

System of a Down- Are great and extremely original, possibly the most original metal band to emerge in this decade. Een though they;re lumped in with the Nu-Metal croud, I'm not sure I'd consider them that. One thing that doesn't help is that daron Malakian seems incapable of tuning his guitars to E.

Linkin Park- Bubble gum, but semi-smart bubble gum. I can stomach most of their stuff, and even find myself singing their songs every now and then, but they're definitely a one-trick pony.

There are a few other good ones, but none worth raving about in any way...I'd consider those the primary of the "genre".

stealthwise

06-29-2007, 01:30 AM

Nu-metal is frigging dead as a doornail, although the best is definitely Sevendust, who are always moving forward, and combining great riffs with excellent vocals and lyrics from Witherspoon.

SUPERECWFAN1

06-29-2007, 05:29 PM

Has any album that's taken that long to make ever been any good?

Its taken Axl 16 years (well he had tons of changover and all from 1994-1997...so 1998-2007 is 9 years thus far) to make a followup to Use your Illusion. And the leaks according to most are pretty damn good and show a huge change he's undergone.

To answer the questions....

What are your thoughts on the new album?

I've heard 2 songs thus far. One has the classic Metallica intro with great guitar work and all. The other has James Hetfield yodeling for so many minutes until he remembers he's in f-cking Metallica , not U2. So it remains un-even for me.

Did you like their last album (St. Anger)?

No....and I'll be a lot nicer. The band was experiminting with a new sound and new focus. They were trying to make a stripped down record in the mold of the White Stripes I think. But they really let people down since Metallica isn't the White Stripes and can't do that type of production...as we saw they tried and it wasn't well.

What's your favorite Metallica song?

Its most likely "One" . I really love that song and "King Nothing" is a close second. I think that song parallels Metallica so well with how they've fallen.

Do you subscribe to the school of "Metallica sold out"?\

They sold out the moment they turned on their fans in the worst fashion in 2000. And those fans helped build them and odds are attended concerts ect ect. They helped put money in the bands pockets and now their thieves ? Fuck you and the horse you rode in on Lars.

Do you prefer new or old Metallica?

Old Metallica from 1987-1999 really. They put out some great enjoyable albums and rocked . They would change things up and it would work. The album they did with the Orchestra was pretty awesome I always felt.

4thHorseman

06-29-2007, 07:12 PM

Brad Barton

06-29-2007, 07:34 PM

The last two setlists Metallica played the last three nights (I believe)

01. Creeping Death
02. For Whom The Bell Tolls
03. Ride The Lightning
04. Disposable Heroes
05. The Unforgiven
06. ...And Justice For All (in full)
07. The Memory Remains
08. The Four Horsemen
09. Orion
10. Fade To Black
11. Master Of Puppets
12. Battery
- - - -
13. Sad But True
14. Nothing Else Matters
15. One
16. Enter Sandman
- - - -
17. Am I Evil?
18. Seek And Destroy

and

Creeping Death
For Whom The Bell Tolls
The Four Horsemen
The Memory Remians
The Unforgiven
Battery
Master of Puppets
The Thing That Should Not Be
Welcome Home (Sanitarium)
Disposable Heroes
Leper Messiah
Orion
Damage, Inc.
- - - -
Sad But True
Nothing Else Matters
One
Enter Sandman
- - - -
The Other New Song
Seek and DestroyAwesome, I had completely forgotten they were back on tour (even though I myself posted it here a few days ago...short term memory loss.) till I saw this post.

Can't wait for the inevitable Youtube videos and bootlegs....I wonder if the "other new song" thats mentioned in this setlist is a variation of the one we've all heard, or the exact same one?

Really sucks the way they don't give Load or Reload any live props at all...those albums had a lot of killer tunes on them, and Metallica seem ashamed to play them live...

4thHorseman

06-29-2007, 07:50 PM

Awesome, I had completely forgotten they were back on tour (even though I myself posted it here a few days ago...short term memory loss.) till I saw this post.

Can't wait for the inevitable Youtube videos and bootlegs....I wonder if the "other new song" thats mentioned in this setlist is a variation of the one we've all heard, or the exact same one?

Really sucks the way they don't give Load or Reload any live props at all...those albums had a lot of killer tunes on them, and Metallica seem ashamed to play them live...

Theres already youtube videos from the first date, the second was just played today, so probably have to wait a little for those:

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=metallica+super+bock&search=Search

and here's And Justice For All. Which was played absolutely wonderfully:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F5xr8TmH5Eg

Brad Barton

06-29-2007, 08:37 PM

and here's And Justice For All. Which was played absolutely wonderfully:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F5xr8TmH5EgMan, that is truly the best I've heard them sounding since the 90's, and yes it is a badass version of Justice....man, this really raises my hopes for the new album, they're all playing wonderfully.

Man In Black

06-29-2007, 08:56 PM

My thoughts on Metallica? I liked them a lot more before I saw that fucking movie.Whoa what a coincidence, those were my thoughts too. I'm not sure how anyone that rich should be that depressed...

howyadoin

06-29-2007, 10:16 PM

Whoa what a coincidence, those were my thoughts too. I'm not sure how anyone that rich should be that depressed...It's not even the being depressed; it's the crying and hugging and "what about my needs?" pussy bullshit.

SUPERECWFAN1

06-29-2007, 10:30 PM

It's not even the being depressed; it's the crying and hugging and "what about my needs?" pussy bullshit.

The only way to save Metallica is if James gets back drinking and becomes a dickhead again. He wrote brillant stuff when he was angry and pissed .

HectorP

06-30-2007, 12:15 AM

Brad Barton

06-30-2007, 12:44 AM

Funny that nowadays bands like Slayer, Exodus and to a lesser degree Megadeth are the ones making the thrash Metallica should be doing in the studio. When in the 80s Metallica was reigning all around. Could the next studio album be their last chance to silence critics?To be fair, they did give speeding up the music and making it more aggressive a shot with St. Anger....the production just completely fucked it up from top to bottom to the point the speed didn't even matter. I always said slap a little production on that album and it would've been a very respectable metal effort. Maybe not a classic, but good.

Now I think they've gotten the point. They never thought their fanbase would leave them, and the backlash from St. Anger woke them up a bit, opened their eyes to reality: "Holy shit, if we make bad music, fans WILL leave us"...and because of that the new album will have all the aggression and speed of St. Anger, with a helluva lot more production (snare in tune, some friggin' solos in the songs) and not the cut+paste, Pro-Tools feel Stanger fell into...

Deathstroke

06-30-2007, 05:01 AM

Deathstroke

06-30-2007, 05:03 AM

My thoughts on Metallica? I liked them a lot more before I saw that fucking movie.

Metallica - Like them through first two albums. (Love Fade To Black). Love them from Master Of Puppets through the Black album. Like them with Load and Reload. FUCKING DESPISE THEM ALL THANKS TO THAT ABORTION OF AN ALBUM CALL ST. ANGER.

Deathstroke

06-30-2007, 05:08 AM

Disturbed- Can actually pull off some pretty intricate arrangements, and while sometimes Draimans voice can get a little old, I'll admit he does put some pretty interesting vocal hooks over Donegans quirky riffs.
doesn't help is that daron Malakian seems incapable of tuning his guitars to E.

For me, Disturbed is the one band in the nu-metal genre that I truly love.

Nu-metal is frigging dead as a doornail, although the best is definitely Sevendust, who are always moving forward, and combining great riffs with excellent vocals and lyrics from Witherspoon.

I tried to get into Sevendust. I really liked the song "Enemy" but when I bought the album it was on, the CD was okay, but nothing really great.

Funny that nowadays bands like Slayer, Exodus and to a lesser degree Megadeth are the ones making the thrash Metallica should be doing in the studio. When in the 80s Metallica was reigning all around. Could the next studio album be their last chance to silence critics?

I think the album may quiet the critics down a bit if it is a return to the sound (and production levels) that made the band what they were before St. Craptastic and a Half was released. I don't think it will ever completely silence them even if they come up with another album worthy of comparison to Master or And Justice.

howyadoin

06-30-2007, 05:48 AM

Anybody get the new Slayer?

SUPERECWFAN1

06-30-2007, 08:19 AM

To be fair, they did give speeding up the music and making it more aggressive a shot with St. Anger....the production just completely fucked it up from top to bottom to the point the speed didn't even matter. I always said slap a little production on that album and it would've been a very respectable metal effort. Maybe not a classic, but good.

Now I think they've gotten the point. They never thought their fanbase would leave them, and the backlash from St. Anger woke them up a bit, opened their eyes to reality: "Holy shit, if we make bad music, fans WILL leave us"...and because of that the new album will have all the aggression and speed of St. Anger, with a helluva lot more production (snare in tune, some friggin' solos in the songs) and not the cut+paste, Pro-Tools feel Stanger fell into...

I like the experiment they tried here. But its clear that the band was going for a stripped down production ala the White Stripes and it didn't work. Metallica isn't the type of band that can do this.

TheLazy

06-30-2007, 09:39 AM

Anybody get the new Slayer?

Yeah. It was boring. Cultist was the only thing close to good. What are they on now, decent death metal album and 7 albums that rehash the same riffs with different words on top? Slayer really do need to change their image, because the satanist thing is really boring at this point.

I like the experiment they tried here. But its clear that the band was going for a stripped down production ala the White Stripes and it didn't work. Metallica isn't the type of band that can do this.

Listen To Killing is my Business... by Megadeth, its a solid thrash effort with next to no production. I think when they decided to go with no production someone,like erm...maybe a producer - but then again they didnt have one because Bob Rock had to concentrate on playing Bass, its THAT demanding - should have told them that that also meant no ProTools.

:)

4thHorseman

06-30-2007, 10:25 AM

The only way to save Metallica is if James gets back drinking and becomes a dickhead again. He wrote brillant stuff when he was angry and pissed .

People at the recent concerts said James is as aggressive as he ever was, if not more.

stealthwise

06-30-2007, 03:08 PM

Yeah, Slayer is boring as hell now. Seriously, I can't tell half their songs apart, and part of that is my fault, given that I can't be arsed to listen to them.

Seriously, their greatest work was Diabolus in Musica. It's fast, ferocious, and actually treads into what was new territory for them at the time.

As for James and the movie... good god that movie sucks. It's so poorly constructed and edited so as to only to appeal to idiots like me who were watching the "in the studio" clips that were posted online while they were making St. Anger. It also makes them look like complete emo-tards, when in actuality they're all complex human beings with different dimensions to their personalities. James is a ferocious metal god, but he's also a family man. Kirk is a wicked guitarist, but he's also got his own feelings and concerns.

And, well, Lars is still an asswipe, either way.

TheLazy

06-30-2007, 03:12 PM

And, well, Lars is still an asswipe, either way.

Correction, he is an asswipe with an art collection, please people, every time you download a song Lars cant buy some highbrow piece of shit, think?

Brad Barton

06-30-2007, 09:27 PM

Yeah, Slayer is boring as hell now. Seriously, I can't tell half their songs apart, and part of that is my fault, given that I can't be arsed to listen to them.I mostly agree, the albums after Diabolus fell inot a horribly repetetive style, and Tom seemed t just lose interest in the vocals. It was a pentatonic, dark sounding riff with Tom screaming over it, it lost it's freshness.

Seriously, their greatest work was Diabolus in Musica. It's fast, ferocious, and actually treads into what was new territory for them at the time.I remember getting Diabolus the DAY it came out and just being blown away by it. It's one of their most well-rounded albums, and it seems like they were actually trying to take "The Black Album" approach and become a little more mainstream accessible....then when it didn't work for them, they bashed Metallica doubly hard...

As for James and the movie... good god that movie sucks. It's so poorly constructed and edited so as to only to appeal to idiots like me who were watching the "in the studio" clips that were posted online while they were making St. Anger. It also makes them look like complete emo-tards, when in actuality they're all complex human beings with different dimensions to their personalities. James is a ferocious metal god, but he's also a family man. Kirk is a wicked guitarist, but he's also got his own feelings and concerns.

And, well, Lars is still an asswipe, either way.Yeah, I liked the movie, but only because I've been a Huge Metallica fan for a long time, and it was an unprecendentedly intimate look at their lives. Almost voyeuristic (except, you know, in a heterosexual way)
And I understand the reason James seemed the way he did in the movie, the guy is already pretty confused in the head, then he goes into rehab and they confuse him 1,000 times more to the point he doesn't know how the hell to act naturally. Then on top of all that, he's got a film crew shoved in his face, waiting with bated breath for him to say somethoing funny or thoughtful. Thats a lot of pressure, man, even for the Het.

And Lars and Kirk have always been artsy-fartsy pansies, so no shock there.

Brad Barton

06-30-2007, 09:30 PM

Try not to forget my Hard Rock/Heavy Metal Update thread.Hmm, maybe we can merge them or something....how old was the thread?

stealthwise

06-30-2007, 10:46 PM

Hmm, maybe we can merge them or something....how old was the thread?

He does infrequent updates, which I find to be a little bit difficult to follow, as I don't often frequent the Music forum (or didn't, I'm trying to keep up with it).

Wait, is the beetheb actually banned right now?

TheLazy

06-30-2007, 11:14 PM

stealthwise

06-30-2007, 11:22 PM

Wow, he seemed like a good poster?:confused:

Probably related to some posts he made regarding some Hulk thread. I kind of hate how you can get banned on ALL the boards for saying something in one particular thread, although I get why those kinds of decisions are made.

Man In Black

07-01-2007, 06:23 AM

ImpulseUCF

07-01-2007, 06:46 AM

Slayers best album is and always will be Reign In Blood. Not only is it their best album, but may actually be the best Speed metal album ever made.

Diabolus in Musica was pretty good, but didn't hold a cande to reign or even Seasons in the Abyss.....dead skin mask is better than any song off of Diabolus...I don't know...I like Reign and all, too, but Bitter Peace is absolutely BRUTAL. Diabolous was at least step forward without abandoning their roots.

Personally, I think the Reign album is a tad overrated...all of the songs kinda run together after a while. Ridiculous, unrelenting speed just makes them less discernable afte a while. I think Seasons was far stronger.

TheLazy

07-01-2007, 07:29 AM

Slayers best album is and always will be Reign In Blood. Not only is it their best album, but may actually be the best Speed metal album ever made.

Diabolus in Musica was pretty good, but didn't hold a cande to reign or even Seasons in the Abyss.....dead skin mask is better than any song off of Diabolus...

Aside from Raining, Angel, and Alter, all the songs on Reign in Blood suffer from slayerness, that's the same riff with different vocals. Sure, they put pedal to the metal as far as speed goes, but it's not really original is it, and think that all but one album since then has been a rehash of this formula.

cactusmaac

07-01-2007, 07:46 AM

I never got into Slayer. I prefer a little more melody in my metal.

Deathstroke

07-01-2007, 09:11 AM

He does infrequent updates, which I find to be a little bit difficult to follow, as I don't often frequent the Music forum (or didn't, I'm trying to keep up with it).

The Hard Rock/Heavy Metal Update is one big thread that I maintain now instead of a series of posts. It should be much easier to keep up with.

Deathstroke

07-01-2007, 09:13 AM

TheLazy

07-01-2007, 09:15 AM

By the way, I'm making today an Official Iron Maiden Day!

Spin 'em if you've got 'em!

My playlist today is:

Somewhere In Time
Seventh Son Of A Seventh Son
Brave New World
Dance Of Death
A Matter Of Life And Death

Any reason why?:confused:

My playlist:
The Wickeman
Different World
The Trooper
Run to the Hills
Flight of Icarus

Deathstroke

07-01-2007, 09:35 AM

Any reason why?:confused:

My playlist:
The Wickeman
Different World
The Trooper
Run to the Hills
Flight of Icarus

No reason why. But I'm not playing the songs, I'm playing the full albums.

DonC

07-01-2007, 10:21 AM

He does infrequent updates, which I find to be a little bit difficult to follow, as I don't often frequent the Music forum (or didn't, I'm trying to keep up with it).

Infrequent updates? He updates two or three times a week.

And I like having these threads seperate. It's easier to follow DS's news that way.

TheLazy

07-01-2007, 04:18 PM

z0mbie_aut0pil0t

07-01-2007, 05:14 PM

I thought this was a metal thread...

Man In Black

07-01-2007, 05:18 PM

I thought this was a metal thread...what exactly does that mean? we've talked about metallica, Slayer, Mastodon, Iron Maiden and a bunch of others.....none of those are metal?

As far as Iron Maiden day, I don't have any full albums, but Im adding the trooper and run to the hills to my playlist as I type. :D

Deathstroke

07-01-2007, 06:34 PM

Don't worry, I'm sure there will be more Iron Maiden days to come.

Arrjay

07-01-2007, 06:50 PM

So, let's discuss Metallica...

Okay.

What are your thoughts on the new album?

Not sure yet.

Did you like their last album (St. Anger)?
.
Nope. It was shit.

What's your favorite Metallica song?

Enter Sandman. Or One.

Do you subscribe to the school of "Metallica sold out"?

Most bands that circulate their music like Metallica have.

Do you prefer new or old Metallica?

Old. Definitely.

Which bassist was best, Cliff, Jason or Rob?

Cliff.

Man In Black

07-01-2007, 06:53 PM

Don't worry, I'm sure there will be more Iron Maiden days to come.What's their overall best album, would you say? I want to get a playlist of nothing but their best songs...I know about The Trooper and Run to the Hills, other than those im completely in the dark on maiden.

Arrjay

07-01-2007, 06:55 PM

Man In Black

07-01-2007, 06:58 PM

Indeed.

These guys came to our town recently and they were freaking terrifying.As I said earlier, I'd call trivium or MachineHead the new face of metal before mastodon

imo, the new face of metal has to be somewhat marketable to a mass audience....and Mastodon just plain isnt

Brad Barton

07-01-2007, 11:30 PM

He does infrequent updates, which I find to be a little bit difficult to follow, as I don't often frequent the Music forum (or didn't, I'm trying to keep up with it).

Wait, is the beetheb actually banned right now?Yup, got my ass slapped with a 24 hour ban...though I probably deserved it, sometimes I spew first and think about it later. ;)

And his Hard Rock/Heavy metal Thread is already waaaay in, so we'll leave em separate....

Brad Barton

07-01-2007, 11:32 PM

Oh hell yeah! the best just got better!

So as it stands, next Sunday I will be at wembley watching Mastodon, Metallica and Machine Head (http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/news/upcoming_tours/machine_head_step_up_for_metallica.html). and some crappy band called Him <3 that suck

This is going to be the metal event of the century. So who wants to start taking bets, they start with Imperium or Clenching Fists of Dissent

:cool:Actually, I'm more wondering if Tallica are going to bust out any new songs.....and dude, you've GOT to bring us some pics for the thread, that'd be awesome.

BTW: I had no idea Mastodon was supporting Metallica anywhere on this tour, I could've sworn they said Apocalyptica were supporting them :confused:

Deathstroke

07-02-2007, 07:25 AM

What's their overall best album, would you say? I want to get a playlist of nothing but their best songs...I know about The Trooper and Run to the Hills, other than those im completely in the dark on maiden.

That's a very interesting question. I'll have to give it some thought. However, any discussion of great Maiden albums has to include Somewhere In Time.

Deathstroke

07-02-2007, 07:26 AM

And his Hard Rock/Heavy metal Thread is already waaaay in, so we'll leave em separate....

Damn straight we'll leave them separate.

This is a discussion thread. Mine is a news reporting thread.

jesse_custer

07-02-2007, 08:07 AM

Arrjay

07-02-2007, 08:14 AM

I really dig Cradle Of Filth, Theatre Of Tragedy, Dimmu Borgir and Opeth.

Anyone else with me on any of those bands?

leonaozaki

07-02-2007, 08:25 AM

That's a very interesting question. I'll have to give it some thought. However, any discussion of great Maiden albums has to include Somewhere In Time.

I'll get back to the playlist question later, but from the first seven Maiden albums I would probably pick Seventh Son of a Seventh Son as my favorite, followed by Piece of Mind and The Number of the Beast.

I would also recommend Live after Death because it has an awful lot of great Maiden songs in one place and you get to hear Bruce Dickinson sing on Paul Di'anno songs.

rob

Deathstroke

07-02-2007, 12:19 PM

Anyone like Dream Theater? They have a new album out, but I'm reticent about buying it since Octavarium was their worst and Train of Thought had more than a few problems. Hopefully, the record will hearken back to stuff like Images and Words, Awake, Scenes from a Memory, and Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence.

Wow we have drastically different opinons about Train of Thought and Octavarium. I thought both were excellent. I have yet to hear Systematic Chaos though.

My Review of Dream Theater's Octavarium (http://www.rockislife.com/reviews/octavarium.htm)

Brad Barton

07-02-2007, 12:24 PM

Damn straight we'll leave them separate.

This is a discussion thread. Mine is a news reporting thread.My thoughts exactly...

I really dig Cradle Of Filth, Theatre Of Tragedy, Dimmu Borgir and Opeth.

Anyone else with me on any of those bands?I've heard a few Cradle songs that I liked, but definitely not super versed in them......as for the rest, no experience whatsoever, though a band in that vein tha I always dug was Meshuggah.

Anyone here ever heard of a band called "Dismember"? If you're into SWedish Death Metal, do yourself a favor, give these guys a listen. THE most underrated band to emerge from the entire movement.

Deathstroke

07-02-2007, 12:28 PM

I'll get back to the playlist question later, but from the first seven Maiden albums I would probably pick Seventh Son of a Seventh Son as my favorite, followed by Piece of Mind and The Number of the Beast.

I would also recommend Live after Death because it has an awful lot of great Maiden songs in one place and you get to hear Bruce Dickinson sing on Paul Di'anno songs.

rob

Piece of Mind and Powerslave are really good, but I think I'd have to go with (in no particular favorite order)

Somewhere In Time, The Number Of The Beast, Live After Death, Seventh Son Of A Seventh Son, Brave New World, and A Matter Of Life And Death.

I am NOT a fan of the vocal work from Paul Di'Anno so I normally stay away from the first two Maiden discs, but they may be for you.

The two Maiden albums with Blaze Bayley on vocals (The X Factor and Virtual XI) are overall disappointing. (The Clansman, Educated Fool, and Futureal are great tracks in the Maiden canon but they all come from Virtual XI)

Brave New World, Dance Of Death and A Matter Of Life And Death are from Bruce Dickinson's second go round as vocalist. The first and third are great. Dance of Death has a few good songs, but was not universally loved by the Maiden fans.

More to come when I get home tonight.

Arrjay

07-02-2007, 12:34 PM

My thoughts exactly...

I've heard a few Cradle songs that I liked, but definitely not super versed in them......as for the rest, no experience whatsoever, though a band in that vein tha I always dug was Meshuggah.

Anyone here ever heard of a band called "Dismember"? If you're into SWedish Death Metal, do yourself a favor, give these guys a listen. THE most underrated band to emerge from the entire movement.

Ooh!

Dismember are FIERCE! Glad to see you dig them.

And Meshuggah are freakin' salubrious though I haven't listened to them in a while.

jesse_custer

07-02-2007, 12:56 PM

Wow we have drastically different opinons about Train of Thought and Octavarium. I thought both were excellent. I have yet to hear Systematic Chaos though.

My Review of Dream Theater's Octavarium (http://www.rockislife.com/reviews/octavarium.htm)

Have you listened to any of their other stuff?

Don't get me wrong, Train of Thought had some good songs, particularly "This Dying Soul" and "Stream of Consciousness." However, "As I Am" sounded like the musicians were asleep compared to the rest of their work, and "Endless Sacrifice" rips off Metallica's "Sanitarium" and Disturbed's throw-a-harmonic-in-the-middle-of-a-riff-for-no-good-reason too much. They also sounded almost like nu-metal on a few of the songs, which is totally unacceptable.

Octavarium rips off a lot of bad music. You should be able to find some information on the Web about this somewhere. It's almost as if Dream Theater just turned their backs to what they've always believed was musically good. I mean, they've always been derivative to a certain extent, but in the past they always ripped great musicians and spruced up the material in interesting ways. Like when they copy Frank Zappa on "Beyond This Life," the guitar/keyboard solo provides a bright contrast to the general sadness of the song.

Brad Barton

07-02-2007, 01:42 PM

PanzerMega

07-02-2007, 01:43 PM

I really dig Cradle Of Filth, Theatre Of Tragedy, Dimmu Borgir and Opeth.

Anyone else with me on any of those bands?

Huge Opeth fan, here.

Still Life is one of my favorite albums ever.

Man In Black

07-02-2007, 02:05 PM

Yes, my brother got me into Dismember a few years ago, and i think they're the onyl swedish metal I can sit and listen to and get casual enjoyment out of.....the rest I have to listen pretty hard to find stuff I like.

And who here's into Deicide?I saw deicide live at a club in 1999....I swear, those guys are the absolute tightest live Metal band ive ever seen....their set was flawless, and glen bentons voice never got tired or cracky as the death metal growlers voices tend to do.

My fav. Deicide songs are Once upon the Cross, Blame it on god, Insineratehymn, Father Bakers, Serpents of the light, dead and dreaming...basically anything from the serpents of the light album was pretty much killer

TheLazy

07-02-2007, 04:01 PM

As I said earlier, I'd call trivium or MachineHead the new face of metal before mastodon

imo, the new face of metal has to be somewhat marketable to a mass audience....and Mastodon just plain isnt

I'm sure people would have said the exact same thing about some punk/metal hybrid band from the bay area back in '83. Machine Head had there chance and got their ass's kicked by Pantera and Korn, Agree about trivium though, them or mastodon are probably going be the next big thing, I think mastodon deserve it more but that's my opinion personally.

I really dig Cradle Of Filth, Theatre Of Tragedy, Dimmu Borgir and Opeth.
Anyone else with me on any of those bands?

Opeth rock all kinds of awesome, other than that I dont really dig the satanism thing

Anyone like Dream Theater? They have a new album out, but I'm reticent about buying it since Octavarium was their worst and Train of Thought had more than a few problems. Hopefully, the record will hearken back to stuff like Images and Words, Awake, Scenes from a Memory, and Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence.

I like Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence, especially Glass prison. I havent heard the new record yet, but I'm kind of weary if they go with 10+ minute songs, after the mess that Machine head fell into, I think Mastodon and Isis have managed to get good progressive songs into 5 minutes, and the 10+ minute bands look lazy by comparison.

And Meshuggah are freakin' salubrious though I haven't listened to them in a while.

"DISCIPLES, COME JOIN WITH ME TO SAVE A FAILED HUMANITY. FOLLOW THE GOD OF CYANIDE INTO THE NEW ETERNITY.":evilsmile

Meshuggah are amazing. I stumbled upon them in the metallica biography and have been hooked since. Something that heavy shouldnt sound that good, this is how death metal should be done, no hexagrams and daemons and shit, pure fucking dystopian future (breed machine;) :D )

HectorP

07-02-2007, 04:45 PM

Anyone here is into Strapping Young Lad? It's one of the few bands (including Metallica) that made me want to buy all of their catalogue after listening to the City album. And it's the only band I can listen to REALLY loud, for some reason.

DWEarhart

07-02-2007, 04:50 PM

Love that band. Unfortunately, Devin's folded his cards for a while, but not for good. But seeing as how he's been involved in some project, whether SYL, solo, or producing, along with touring for ten years straight, he's due some downtime. His solo albums are insane as well. The whole SYL group is on his Physicist record.

SYL is sick. I've had the pleasure of seeing them live, and they are as tight on stage as they are on the album.

Gene Hoglan's new project, Pitch Black Forecast, should be out by the end of the year.

Brad Barton

07-02-2007, 05:08 PM

Considering we're talking Metal on a Comic book forum, it's surprising no one's brought up White Zombie yet.

And Zomb' fans hereabout?

HectorP

07-02-2007, 05:19 PM

Mmm... for Comics and Metal, wouldn't Iced Earth be a better parallel? That mascot thing they have for their last album looks like a comics badass, with the staff and the glowing eyes.

Brad Barton

07-02-2007, 05:23 PM

Mmm... for Comics and Metal, wouldn't Iced Earth be a better parallel? That mascot thing they have for their last album looks like a comics badass, with the staff and the glowing eyes.I dunno, with White Zombie it's more how campy their songs are...they're almost like a comic-book in music form.
Iced earth don't really sound like a comic book for the ears, and I don't necessarily think comic art on their albums makes them unique in that way. Korn, Entombed,Thin Lizzy and numerous other bands have had comic art on their album covers too...

Deathstroke

07-02-2007, 05:42 PM

Have you listened to any of their other stuff?

Don't get me wrong, Train of Thought had some good songs, particularly "This Dying Soul" and "Stream of Consciousness." However, "As I Am" sounded like the musicians were asleep compared to the rest of their work, and "Endless Sacrifice" rips off Metallica's "Sanitarium" and Disturbed's throw-a-harmonic-in-the-middle-of-a-riff-for-no-good-reason too much. They also sounded almost like nu-metal on a few of the songs, which is totally unacceptable.

Octavarium rips off a lot of bad music. You should be able to find some information on the Web about this somewhere. It's almost as if Dream Theater just turned their backs to what they've always believed was musically good. I mean, they've always been derivative to a certain extent, but in the past they always ripped great musicians and spruced up the material in interesting ways. Like when they copy Frank Zappa on "Beyond This Life," the guitar/keyboard solo provides a bright contrast to the general sadness of the song.

I have Images and Words and heard Awake and Scenes....

Love the first, like most of the second, and hated the third. Oh, I didn't care for A Change of Seasons either.

Still loved TOT and Octavarium.

Deathstroke

07-02-2007, 05:45 PM

TheLazy

07-02-2007, 05:47 PM

I dunno, with White Zombie it's more how campy their songs are...they're almost like a comic-book in music form.
Iced earth don't really sound like a comic book for the ears, and I don't necessarily think comic art on their albums makes them unique in that way. Korn, Entombed,Thin Lizzy and numerous other bands have had comic art on their album covers too...

DragonForce=camp

They embody geekdom, have you seen the video for Operation Ground and Pound? They're having a blood guitar off inside a computer game, I mean how much more geeky can you get?:cool:

DWEarhart

07-02-2007, 05:47 PM

Plus, Greg Capullo has contributed several covers for them.

HectorP

07-02-2007, 05:49 PM

Well, I guess it depends on the comic, the mood of the story and what one can get out from the music itself.

By the way, has anyone read the "Top 500 Heavy Metal Albums of All Time" book?

Brad Barton

07-02-2007, 06:27 PM

Well, I guess it depends on the comic, the mood of the story and what one can get out from the music itself.

By the way, has anyone read the "Top 500 Heavy Metal Albums of All Time" book?I haven't reads this particular book, but any "Greatest Metal Album" list I've ever seen will have Master of Puppets, Blizzard of Ozz, Paranoid, Led Zep vol. 4 in the top 10....those four are almost a guarantee.

Priest and Maiden usually get one in there somewhere too...Megadeth or Pantera rarely.

HectorP

07-02-2007, 06:50 PM

I haven't reads this particular book, but any "Greatest Metal Album" list I've ever seen will have Master of Puppets, Blizzard of Ozz, Paranoid, Led Zep vol. 4 in the top 10....those four are almost a guarantee.

Priest and Maiden usually get one in there somewhere too...Megadeth or Pantera rarely.

Yes, those bands and albums are in the book. Personally I prefer that list than most out there because it's not the opinion of just one person (although the author is the one doing each review). When I wasn't that much into Metal that book gave me a good idea of the notorious bands out there.

It has a lot of bands I didn't know about, like Neurosis, Dark Angel and Strapping Young Lad.

Man In Black

07-03-2007, 02:43 AM

Plus, Greg Capullo has contributed several covers for them.and Todd Mcfarlane drew the cover to Korns "Follow the leader" too...i think Jim Lee even drew the cover to some album or other, cant remember which

dark saga is a good album though...

Deathstroke

07-03-2007, 05:08 AM

dark saga is a good album though...

It's the one that got me into the band.

Oh, and Alex Ross did the cover art for the Anthrax album We've Come For You All.

DWEarhart

07-03-2007, 05:23 AM

Geoff Darrow did the cover for the Gas Giants' Beyond the Back Burner. While not metal, it's still Geoff Darrow, who is awesome in himself.

Anthrax's W.C.F.U.A. is very underrated album. Definitely my second favorite of the John Bush era, and high up there on the favorite overall Anthrax album list.

Deathstroke

07-03-2007, 06:11 AM

Anthrax's W.C.F.U.A. is very underrated album. Definitely my second favorite of the John Bush era, and high up there on the favorite overall Anthrax album list.

It's my favorite album of the John Bush era. I love the vocals from Bush from his Armored Saint days. Which by the way, is still his best work in my not so humble opinion.

The only other album I really love from Anthrax is the one (I can't recall the name at the moment) with Antisocial on it.

Rattlehead

07-03-2007, 08:30 AM

I dunno, with White Zombie it's more how campy their songs are...they're almost like a comic-book in music form.
Iced earth don't really sound like a comic book for the ears, and I don't necessarily think comic art on their albums makes them unique in that way. Korn, Entombed,Thin Lizzy and numerous other bands have had comic art on their album covers too...

I'm constantly listening to La Sexorcisto: Devil Music Vol. 1 and Make Them Die Slowly. I was always a little bit dissapointed that on Astro-Creep they dumped the fun, "bouncy", almost dancable riffs in favor of the cold, industrial approach. I liked them better when they let J just go nuts on the guitar playing.

Arrjay

07-03-2007, 09:51 AM

Any love for Coal Chamber here?

ImpulseUCF

07-03-2007, 10:01 AM

DragonForce=campAnd I love them for it. It's sooo ridiculously over the top and intense. It's dangerous to listen to while driving, though. Very, very fast acceleration and carelessness ensue. :D

Some random points...

Zombie - White and/or Rob - I love them. They are the musical embodiment of the campy, self-aware horror movies that I love, a la Evil Dead 2, Army of Darkness, various zombie movies, etc! Very fun, bouncy as someone said, over the top. Great stuff.

Slayer - I finally just listened to Diabolus In Musica extensively (ie. loudly in my car) and holy crap! It's phenomenal! What a shame that they abandoned a newer, complex, innovative take on their very distictive style in favor of the same old, repetitive, already-been-done interchangeable speed showcases. You can play fast, I get it, but I already have Reigning Blood. I don't need to buy it 5 more times. DIM was VERY hard, VERY brutal, unquestionably Slayer, and a refreshing new direction. What a damn shame. Bitter Peace is just BRUTAL!

Does anyone have any recommendations for some extreme style stuff with actual melodic singing? I love the guitar work of a lot of death metal bands, Arch Enemy, Lamb, etc, but I simply can't stand vocal cord shredding, cookie monster vocals. I love the juxtaposition of melodic vocals on top of ferocious, unrelenting guitar and rhythm work When it feels to me like someone is trying to make as much dissonant noise as possible and screaming their head off, I just think "talentless hack!! You can't sing!" I've tried to listen to Lamb of God,but I just can't stand the vocals. I saw them open for Megadeth at Gigantour last year, and I just couldn't take it.

Megadeth OWNS live, BTW.

leonaozaki

07-03-2007, 10:30 AM

TheLazy

07-03-2007, 11:40 AM

And I love them for it. It's sooo ridiculously over the top and intense. It's dangerous to listen to while driving, though. Very, very fast acceleration and carelessness ensue. :D

Some random points...

Zombie - White and/or Rob - I love them. They are the musical embodiment of the campy, self-aware horror movies that I love, a la Evil Dead 2, Army of Darkness, various zombie movies, etc! Very fun, bouncy as someone said, over the top. Great stuff.

Slayer - I finally just listened to Diabolus In Musica extensively (ie. loudly in my car) and holy crap! It's phenomenal! What a shame that they abandoned a newer, complex, innovative take on their very distictive style in favor of the same old, repetitive, already-been-done interchangeable speed showcases. You can play fast, I get it, but I already have Reigning Blood. I don't need to buy it 5 more times. DIM was VERY hard, VERY brutal, unquestionably Slayer, and a refreshing new direction. What a damn shame. Bitter Peace is just BRUTAL!

Does anyone have any recommendations for some extreme style stuff with actual melodic singing? I love the guitar work of a lot of death metal bands, Arch Enemy, Lamb, etc, but I simply can't stand vocal cord shredding, cookie monster vocals. I love the juxtaposition of melodic vocals on top of ferocious, unrelenting guitar and rhythm work When it feels to me like someone is trying to make as much dissonant noise as possible and screaming their head off, I just think "talentless hack!! You can't sing!" I've tried to listen to Lamb of God,but I just can't stand the vocals. I saw them open for Megadeth at Gigantour last year, and I just couldn't take it.

Megadeth OWNS live, BTW.

Diamond Head, King diamond. I suppose you could make a case for Tool, and if you don't like cookie monster vocals then try The Haunted (At the Gates' version of Velvet Revolver), its got that semi cookie monster, semi Tim Armstrong, semi Phil Asemlo sound. Imagine the hardest guy you've ever seen singing, and thats probably the sound that you will hear, tis an interesting take on the death grunt,and definitely addictive.

ImpulseUCF

07-03-2007, 11:59 AM

Diamond Head, King diamond. I suppose you could make a case for Tool, and if you don't like cookie monster vocals then try The Haunted (At the Gates' version of Velvet Revolver), its got that semi cookie monster, semi Tim Armstrong, semi Phil Asemlo sound. Imagine the hardest guy you've ever seen singing, and thats probably the sound that you will hear, tis an interesting take on the death grunt,and definitely addictive.Hmm.. Thanks for the tips. Tool isn't really what I mean... Maynard can sing, but they're hardly that extreme kind of metal. King Diamond, you say...

DWEarhart

07-03-2007, 12:10 PM

It's my favorite album of the John Bush era. I love the vocals from Bush from his Armored Saint days. Which by the way, is still his best work in my not so humble opinion.

The only other album I really love from Anthrax is the one (I can't recall the name at the moment) with Antisocial on it.

John Bush is just a bloody awesome singer, and yes, definitely his best work was in Armored Saint. Sound of White Noise, and W.C.F.U.A. are my two faves from his time with Anthrax.

Any love for Coal Chamber here?

They were cool when they first came out, but quickly faded from my playlists. Their sound just never made that jump to the next level. I'm kind of glad they broke up, otherwise Devildriver might not be around.

Deathstroke

07-03-2007, 01:16 PM

Any love for Coal Chamber here?

I was in love with Rayna Foss the bass player, does that count?

State of Euphoria.

rob

Thanks for the information!

PanzerMega

07-03-2007, 01:28 PM

And I love them for it. It's sooo ridiculously over the top and intense. It's dangerous to listen to while driving, though. Very, very fast acceleration and carelessness ensue. :D

Some random points...

Zombie - White and/or Rob - I love them. They are the musical embodiment of the campy, self-aware horror movies that I love, a la Evil Dead 2, Army of Darkness, various zombie movies, etc! Very fun, bouncy as someone said, over the top. Great stuff.

Slayer - I finally just listened to Diabolus In Musica extensively (ie. loudly in my car) and holy crap! It's phenomenal! What a shame that they abandoned a newer, complex, innovative take on their very distictive style in favor of the same old, repetitive, already-been-done interchangeable speed showcases. You can play fast, I get it, but I already have Reigning Blood. I don't need to buy it 5 more times. DIM was VERY hard, VERY brutal, unquestionably Slayer, and a refreshing new direction. What a damn shame. Bitter Peace is just BRUTAL!

Does anyone have any recommendations for some extreme style stuff with actual melodic singing? I love the guitar work of a lot of death metal bands, Arch Enemy, Lamb, etc, but I simply can't stand vocal cord shredding, cookie monster vocals. I love the juxtaposition of melodic vocals on top of ferocious, unrelenting guitar and rhythm work When it feels to me like someone is trying to make as much dissonant noise as possible and screaming their head off, I just think "talentless hack!! You can't sing!" I've tried to listen to Lamb of God,but I just can't stand the vocals. I saw them open for Megadeth at Gigantour last year, and I just couldn't take it.

Megadeth OWNS live, BTW.

There's a relatively new band, Scar Symmetry, who plays swedish death style, but most of the vocals are very clean. Try the album, Pitch Black Progress.

DWEarhart

07-03-2007, 03:16 PM

Any Soilwork album starting from Natural Born Chaos til current.

z0mbie_aut0pil0t

07-03-2007, 05:15 PM

Soilwork's older shit is a lot better, dude.

DWEarhart

07-03-2007, 05:39 PM

Soilwork's older shit is a lot better, dude.

I have them. To me, those albums are okay (I liked 'em more when I was younger), but now I listen to their current stuff alot more.

Brad Barton

07-03-2007, 09:45 PM

DWEarhart

07-03-2007, 09:50 PM

Brad Barton

07-03-2007, 09:59 PM

It was damn near hilarious listening to Pantera pre-CFH, and yet still very very cool. 80's glam at its thrashiest, and then Phil came along on Power Metal. That one was definitely more Judas Priest than average Pantera.Yeah, in that "DImevision" video they released a few years ago it shows Dimebag at very early gigs, just shredding the shit out of that old Dean of his when he was like 17 or 18 years old.....lemme tell you something, yes, those pre CFH days were pretty cheesy and they tried way too hard to be glam (though personally I think they were more going for KISS than "glam") but Dime was far and away the best shredder in any Glam band out there at that time, George Lynch and Michael Schenker included.

There's one section of the video called "Dime goes to the Movies" where they were obviously trying to record a very early music-video, and Dime lays out one of the most impressive solo's I'd ever seen him play, just tore that fretboard up and made it his bitch-- and this when he was about 17!!

DWEarhart

07-03-2007, 10:06 PM

stealthwise

07-03-2007, 10:30 PM

- Him really sucks.

- Anyone listen to Down? Not strictly metal, but really good.

Brad Barton

07-03-2007, 10:36 PM

That's awesome. Dime was way more skilled and talented than he let on in the albums, where he already expressed a hell of alot of aptitude, but he wasn't a showoff, he just wanted to make great music.

The first time I saw Pantera live, Dime pulled a shredding improv during Cowboys From Hell, and everyone's jaws dropped.Yeah, after he was shot I went to the Dime Memorial they threw here in Arlington at the convention center, which is DIme's home city and pretty much Pantera's base of operations. (it's the city in between Dallas and Fort Worth.)

A bunch of people were supposed to show up and play or talk or whatever, and by the time me and my friends got there it was already overflowingly packed. We couldn't even get into the auditorium it was dso packed, so they put up huge TV screens in the Waiting halls and outside, and you could hear the people inside the stadium roaring as Vinnie, or Jerry cantrell or Rex or whoever were talking. I think Zakk Wylde was there, as was Eddie Van Halen and a few others.

It was a great night, we went to the memorial, got crazy, then went home and got wasted and jammed on Pantera records all night...it was really cool and a fitting tribute to Dime, imo. It's what he woulda wanted ;).

One thing I remember thinking while we were watching the memorial was "Where the hell is Phil?" I knew they'd been having disagreements or whatever, but I just thought it was the height of callousness that Phil hadn't shown up to pay his respects......didn't find out till years later that Phil WAS in town to be there, but Vinnie and Rita Haney wouldn't let him come, which I thought was also pretty fucked up.

Brad Barton

07-03-2007, 10:47 PM

- Anyone listen to Down? Not strictly metal, but really good.I can dig me some Down, though Nola is definitely a far better record than Down II...

Hail the Leaf is awesome, as are a few others. I find it funny when someone who professes to hate St. Anger say they love Down, because they sound very similar when you look at production and the stripped down approach.

DWEarhart

07-03-2007, 11:10 PM

- Him really sucks.

- Anyone listen to Down? Not strictly metal, but really good.

Down is some sweet soul-pounding jams. I agree with beetheb, NOLA is a much better record than II, though not without its own charm here and there, but I can still put on NOLA all day any day. I love the tone on Pepper's guitar.

Yeah, after he was shot I went to the Dime Memorial they threw here in Arlington at the convention center, which is DIme's home city and pretty much Pantera's base of operations. (it's the city in between Dallas and Fort Worth.)

A bunch of people were supposed to show up and play or talk or whatever, and by the time me and my friends got there it was already overflowingly packed. We couldn't even get into the auditorium it was dso packed, so they put up huge TV screens in the Waiting halls and outside, and you could hear the people inside the stadium roaring as Vinnie, or Jerry cantrell or Rex or whoever were talking. I think Zakk Wylde was there, as was Eddie Van Halen and a few others.

It was a great night, we went to the memorial, got crazy, then went home and got wasted and jammed on Pantera records all night...it was really cool and a fitting tribute to Dime, imo. It's what he woulda wanted ;).

One thing I remember thinking while we were watching the memorial was "Where the hell is Phil?" I knew they'd been having disagreements or whatever, but I just thought it was the height of callousness that Phil hadn't shown up to pay his respects......didn't find out till years later that Phil WAS in town to be there, but Vinnie and Rita Haney wouldn't let him come, which I thought was also pretty fucked up.

Totally. I enjoyed the music, and every individual attitude of Pantera's so much, and they were really integral to each other as well as the music. I remember when I read that Phil legally died and came back from a heroin overdose I was about as upset as a fan can get. I'd like to call him an idiot for even doing the stuff in the first place. And then Dime's death was just a blow to a whole other foundation.

It's harsh knowing that Vinnie and Rita couldn't let peace be for just one day - just one day - but that's what happens when you become so tight with a person, be it as a friend or whatever. You can hurt them just as easily as you can cherish them.

So much damage has been done, and music and metal just haven't been the same for me since Dime passed away.

I honestly wasn't too thrilled with the Damagplan album, but I was just happy to hear Dime and Vinnie again, and really wanted more. I'm glad that Vinnie's back for a while with Hellyeah, as well as setting up Big Vin records.

PanzerMega

07-03-2007, 11:32 PM

Brad Barton

07-03-2007, 11:57 PM

Glad to see a Carcass mention. Easily my favorite death band of all time.Hell yes, most people disagree with me, but I thought Swansong was their most killer album...I fell in love with that album the day I got it and pretty much listened to nothing else for about a month. The only other album I ever remember doing that with was Megadeth- Rust In Pace, which is the greatest Speed metal album of all time.

Yes man, I hope there are some Carcass fans on this board, they were really a great band that ended before their time.

Brad Barton

07-04-2007, 12:08 AM

Totally. I enjoyed the music, and every individual attitude of Pantera's so much, and they were really integral to each other as well as the music. I remember when I read that Phil legally died and came back from a heroin overdose I was about as upset as a fan can get. I'd like to call him an idiot for even doing the stuff in the first place. And then Dime's death was just a blow to a whole other foundation

It's harsh knowing that Vinnie and Rita couldn't let peace be for just one day - just one day - but that's what happens when you become so tight with a person, be it as a friend or whatever. You can hurt them just as easily as you can cherish them. .I would cite Phil's overdose as the beginning of the end for Pantera. Phil's reliance on smack drove a wedge in bewtween the band, then his shit talking after the break-up he inititated probably contributed to Dime's death.....I mean come on, a few weeks before the shooting, he said in an internationally circulated interview "Dime needs to be beaten severely"......so I can almost undertand where Vinnie and Rita wre coming from.

Still, Phil was like a brother to Dime, and it would've meant a hell of a lot to the fans if he'd been there, grieving with the rest of the family. Rita and Vinnie should've respected at least that.

So much damage has been done, and music and metal just haven't been the same for me since Dime passed away.

I honestly wasn't too thrilled with the Damagplan album, but I was just happy to hear Dime and Vinnie again, and really wanted more. I'm glad that Vinnie's back for a while with Hellyeah, as well as setting up Big Vin records.I was so anxious to hear the next Damageplan album. I liked the first album and thought the band had great potential, they were definitely on the right track, and in a few years probably could've really taken off. Pat Lachman had a voice that really could've gone either mainstream or Hard Metal, and he can turn it on and off at will...

As for Hellyeah.....they're alright. I would much rather have seen Damageplan continue than any Hellyeah's or whatnot. Unfortunately a psycho idiot took that option away from us....

wingsofdamnation

07-04-2007, 08:11 AM

as long as metallica ditchs that crappy snair drum, i might look into it. i was really dissapointed in st. anger. i was a huge fan of their 80's and early 90' albums and still love metallica s&m
but for my top five metal bands
1. Devildriver
2. Machine Head
3. Chimaira
4. Megadeth
5. Soilwork/Inflames (its a tough call, both have the same style of melodic metal but its hard to pick one)

Rattlehead

07-04-2007, 08:54 AM

Hell yes, most people disagree with me, but I thought Swansong was their most killer album...I fell in love with that album the day I got it and pretty much listened to nothing else for about a month. The only other album I ever remember doing that with was Megadeth- Rust In Pace, which is the greatest Speed metal album of all time.

Yes man, I hope there are some Carcass fans on this board, they were really a great band that ended before their time.

I think Heartwork is Carcass' magnum opus personally, but I love Swansong a lot too. I loved the whole "Death and Roll" vibe those two albums possessed. The lyrics were, and still are, very poignant and just flat out truthful. I'll take Carcass doing smart social commentary over them reading from a medical dictionary any day of the week.

"You fools, there will be no second coming! Your only salvation will come in the shape of a bomb!"
"Consume or be consumed, your life is cheap!"
"Keep on rotting in the free world."

PanzerMega

07-04-2007, 09:29 AM

Hell yes, most people disagree with me, but I thought Swansong was their most killer album...I fell in love with that album the day I got it and pretty much listened to nothing else for about a month. The only other album I ever remember doing that with was Megadeth- Rust In Pace, which is the greatest Speed metal album of all time.

Yes man, I hope there are some Carcass fans on this board, they were really a great band that ended before their time.

Swansong's what got me into them as well. I get why some people don't like it, but holy shit, what a great album. That's funny, I did the same thing with Swansong and Rust in Peace.

There's been rumors of a Carcass reunion over the past few months. I would go ANYWHERE that happened.

cactusmaac

07-04-2007, 10:47 AM

I was pretty impressed by the Lostprophets cover of Davidian on the latest Kerrang CD - first time I've heard any Machine Head - so I ordered their first album, which is apparently their best.

Man In Black

07-04-2007, 12:33 PM

tomorrow belongs to nobody- awesome carcass song

"You're waiting for tomorrow, well tomorrow never comes,
You're waiting for your new dawn, so sad to say there isn't one.
because tomorrow belongs to nobody..."

I dont have swansong, but my friend gave me a cd that had this song and one called carnal forge that were both pretty good....may have to go limewire some more carcass. :D

stealthwise

07-04-2007, 06:30 PM

Brad Barton

07-04-2007, 08:58 PM

You know who's a good, but not quite great, metal band? Godsmack.

Seen them live twice, once at Ozzfest when they were just establishing themselves (back in 1999), and once supporting Metallica at 2004. During the latter, the mic wouldn't work for the first two songs, so Sonny just screamed into it, obviously frustrated, until it kicked back in mid-song, and he was letting it rip really loud. Pretty funny stuff. :)Sonny...? You mean Sully?

Yeah, Godsmack are good. Their riffs are about as complicated as a paper bag, just stupid, one-finger detuned chugging, but I have to admit Sully keeps finding ways to use that same chord progression differently.

One thing I liekd about their older albums (Godsmack I, Awake) was Tommy Stewarts drumming. He just kept the songs clicking along great, and knew when to go crazy and when to lay back....the guy they replaced him with wasn't nearly as good...

Stealthwise, how about Disturbed, you ever get into them?

SUPERECWFAN1

07-04-2007, 09:15 PM

You know who's a good, but not quite great, metal band? Godsmack.

Seen them live twice, once at Ozzfest when they were just establishing themselves (back in 1999), and once supporting Metallica at 2004. During the latter, the mic wouldn't work for the first two songs, so Sonny just screamed into it, obviously frustrated, until it kicked back in mid-song, and he was letting it rip really loud. Pretty funny stuff. :)

Godsmack is a great band. I have their albums and have even taped one of their Ozzfest performances. Whats really a great album is "The Other Side" , the 7 song CD they put out that was acoustic. I had wished we'd see more experimenting from that with IV , but they didn't.

Deathstroke

07-05-2007, 06:49 AM

Stealthwise, how about Disturbed, you ever get into them?

If he didn't, I did.

ImpulseUCF

07-05-2007, 10:00 AM

Going with thr Metal bands-with cleaner vocals topic: It's hard to say, as I'm not entirely sure what you mean when you say "Metal"....I'd say there are plenty of pseudo-metal bands like Guns'n Roses, Godsmack and Linkin park who combine metal riffs and aggression with cleaner singing.I appreciate the advice. I like G'n'R (well, Appetite) and early Godsmack and all that, but what I am basically looking for is death metal with clean vocals. I'm not sure if it exists, but I detest the death grunt. I've tried so many times to get into it, and I just can't do it. I'm down with the scream-singing a la early Metallica/Pantera, even yelling as an accent or for punctuation, but just vocal-shredding, growling, screaming without a hint of melody just grates on my nerves. I love the intensity of the music, but I love it with a skilled singer over the top.

Though not quite a "real" metal band, Kittie's first album was phenomonal, I though. Nothing terribly complex or innovative, but heavy-ass riffs with this girl singing beautifully over it with a growling scream every now and again just to add a little spice. Whereas their second album is basically unlistenable IMO. I never wanted to punch a woman in the face before I tried to listen to that album. :p
Now if you're talking full on Metal, go with early Pantera (CFH & Vulgar Display) Pretty much any Metallica, Megadeth, Flotsam and Jetsam, Anthrax, Mercyful fate or Maiden as well.....there are plenty of metal bands out there with a clean vocal style, though I admit they're harder to find in between all the screamo and cookie-monster singers these days.
Metallica? Check. (all)
Megadeth? Check. (all)
F&J - I need to get into them. I hear good things.
Anthras - love them. Just getting started... I somehow missed them.
Mercyful Fate - I couldn't get past the guy's voice. I much prefer Hetfield's covers.

I should get into Maiden....
Then again, there are some scream bands who do it pretty originally. Lamb of God, Carcass and Six Feet Under are all bands you might want to give a try...See, musically, I would love something like Lamb of God but I want to kick their singers face in. I can't stand it. Is there anything out there along those lines with an actual singer? I can understand that some people dig it, but those vocals are just not for me.

...Godsmack...I love early Godsmack. Their first album is, IMO, among the best nu-metal albums ever created and one of the only good things to come from the movement. It was original and fun, pretty aggressive but very accessible, and "Bad Religion" and "Voodoo" just grab you. "Awake" was great, too, though not as balanced as the first album. I love the title track. It's one of my favorites to play on my guitar. The third album was pretty generic, the guitars were all muddled..I think they were running out of steam with the formula. The latest one is pretty fresh. That acoustic release was amazing, too.

TheLazy

07-05-2007, 10:56 AM

I appreciate the advice. I like G'n'R (well, Appetite) and early Godsmack and all that, but what I am basically looking for is death metal with clean vocals. I'm not sure if it exists, but I detest the death grunt. I've tried so many times to get into it, and I just can't do it. I'm down with the scream-singing a la early Metallica/Pantera, even yelling as an accent or for punctuation, but just vocal-shredding, growling, screaming without a hint of melody just grates on my nerves. I love the intensity of the music, but I love it with a skilled singer over the top.
.

If you want melody then try InFlames or Maiden;)

PanzerMega

07-05-2007, 01:53 PM

If you want death-style intensity, where they either sing clean, or at least not in total death grunts, then try these albums:

Carcass - Swansong
The Haunted - rEVOLVEr
In Flames - Reroute To Remain
Scar Symmetry - Pitch Black Progress
Nevermore - Dead Heart In A Dead World
Shadows Fall - The War Within
Soilwork - Natural Born Chaos
Beyond The Embrace - Against The Elements

Brad Barton

07-05-2007, 02:57 PM

If you want death-style intensity, where they either sing clean, or at least not in total death grunts, then try these albums:

Carcass - Swansong
Ehrrm...this one's kind of iffy.....Carcass' singer doesn't really do the "death grunt" but he's far from being a melodic singer. Really, carcass let the guitars do the talking when it comes to melodies. If they want a melodic part to shine, or really have some impact, the singer usually shuts up. ;)

Don't get me wrong, I love Carcass. Love the riffs/music/lyrics....but the singing is, IMO, the bands weakest point.

Dennis K

07-05-2007, 03:20 PM

Megadeth- Rust In Pace, which is the greatest Speed metal album of all time.

Wow, that's a bold statement, and one I can't get behind as I don't think it's better than Peace Sells...But Who's Buying?

PanzerMega

07-05-2007, 04:03 PM

Ehrrm...this one's kind of iffy.....Carcass' singer doesn't really do the "death grunt" but he's far from being a melodic singer. Really, carcass let the guitars do the talking when it comes to melodies. If they want a melodic part to shine, or really have some impact, the singer usually shuts up. ;)

Don't get me wrong, I love Carcass. Love the riffs/music/lyrics....but the singing is, IMO, the bands weakest point.

Oh I agree, Jeff Walker's not the greatest vocalist ever, but Swansong really helped transition me into the death metal genre back in the mid-90s. Being able to understand the words helps, and I think that album is less abrasive than say, Death, or At The Gates, or Lamb of God.

But yeah, don't get me wrong, Carcass isn't where you go for melodic vocals.

Brad Barton

07-05-2007, 05:51 PM

Wow, that's a bold statement, and one I can't get behind as I don't think it's better than Peace Sells...But Who's Buying?Peace Sells is a great album too, but it's got some weak tracks and overall pretty shitty production. If it weren't for Good Mourning/Black Friday being so awesome a song, I probably wouldn't even put Peace Sells in Megadeths top 5.

Now RIP on the other hand. Full on, balls to the wall Speed emtal from track 1 through track 9. The album doesn;t let up, yet at the same time, it's extremely catchy, Marty's solo's (especially over Holy Wars) are seriously some of the best metal solos ever recorded, again, IMO.

If I had to rank Megadeths Top 5:
1. Rust in Peace
2. Countdown To Extinction
3. Cryptic Writings
4. Peace Sells (mostly on the strength of Good mourning & The Conjuring)
5. United Abominations

Give UA a little more time, it may even rank higher on my list, its their best album since Cryptic Writings.

stealthwise

07-05-2007, 08:13 PM

Sonny...? You mean Sully?

Yeah, Godsmack are good. Their riffs are about as complicated as a paper bag, just stupid, one-finger detuned chugging, but I have to admit Sully keeps finding ways to use that same chord progression differently.

One thing I liekd about their older albums (Godsmack I, Awake) was Tommy Stewarts drumming. He just kept the songs clicking along great, and knew when to go crazy and when to lay back....the guy they replaced him with wasn't nearly as good...

Stealthwise, how about Disturbed, you ever get into them?

Yeah, Sully, brainfart there.

I liked Disturbed, but much like Godsmack, I found their first album to be the most inspired. The lead singer, Dave whatshisface, also irritates me because he seems to believe that he and his music are far more intelligent than he thinks they are. But I do dig the first album and some songs off of the second one.

HectorP

07-05-2007, 09:19 PM

Peace Sells is a great album too, but it's got some weak tracks and overall pretty shitty production. If it weren't for Good Mourning/Black Friday being so awesome a song, I probably wouldn't even put Peace Sells in Megadeths top 5.

Now RIP on the other hand. Full on, balls to the wall Speed emtal from track 1 through track 9. The album doesn;t let up, yet at the same time, it's extremely catchy, Marty's solo's (especially over Holy Wars) are seriously some of the best metal solos ever recorded, again, IMO.

If I had to rank Megadeths Top 5:
1. Rust in Peace
2. Countdown To Extinction
3. Cryptic Writings
4. Peace Sells (mostly on the strength of Good mourning & The Conjuring)
5. United Abominations

I always preferred Peace Sells..., thinking it was catchier. But yeah, Rust In Peace it's the most well regarded Megadeth album, landing the 11th spot. And it's damn good, too.

P-Man

07-05-2007, 11:43 PM

I liked Disturbed, but much like Godsmack, I found their first album to be the most inspired. The lead singer, Dave whatshisface, also irritates me because he seems to believe that he and his music are far more intelligent than he thinks they are. But I do dig the first album and some songs off of the second one.

I thought their first album had a few nice moments, but it had moments that were just plain stupid. The "stop hitting me mommy" part in Down with the Sickness and the song Droppin' Plates stick out as some of the most retarded stuff I've ever heard. After that album they got much better. Kind of boring, pretty unoriginal, but none the less enjoyable. I do, however, agree about David Dramain thinking his lyrics are smarter than they actually are. He's not a very good lyricist.

stealthwise

07-06-2007, 01:07 AM

I thought their first album had a few nice moments, but it had moments that were just plain stupid. The "stop hitting me mommy" part in Down with the Sickness and the song Droppin' Plates stick out as some of the most retarded stuff I've ever heard. After that album they got much better. Kind of boring, pretty unoriginal, but none the less enjoyable. I do, however, agree about David Dramain thinking his lyrics are smarter than they actually are. He's not a very good lyricist.

Yeah, I'm not very fond of those moments on the first album, but at least they were trying unusual stuff, and just going for something different. The second album feels very... blase, and that last track on it was really weepy and felt very insincere.

Deathstroke

07-06-2007, 06:43 AM

For me, I enjoyed all three of the Disturbed albums. Even Dave Draiman's "Stop Hitting Me Mommy!" freakout on "Down With The Sickness"

Brad Barton

07-06-2007, 01:23 PM

For me, I enjoyed all three of the Disturbed albums. Even Dave Draiman's "Stop Hitting Me Mommy!" freakout on "Down With The Sickness"Yeah, I agree that the "stop hitting me, mommy" stuff seemed a bit forced....like they thought "Well, our name is Disturbed, maybe we should make it seem like we're....y'know, disturbed."

I actually liked the 2nd album a lot better. I thought it was a stronger album from start to finish, though lyrically it did take itself far too seriously. Tone down the P.C. and religious overtones of that album, and I think it's one of the best mainstream metal offerings of this decade.

I'm not noticing much love for 10,000 fists either. No one got into that one (Deathstroke)? I thought it was good....

cactusmaac

07-06-2007, 04:24 PM

Peace Sells is a great album too, but it's got some weak tracks and overall pretty shitty production. If it weren't for Good Mourning/Black Friday being so awesome a song, I probably wouldn't even put Peace Sells in Megadeths top 5.

Now RIP on the other hand. Full on, balls to the wall Speed emtal from track 1 through track 9. The album doesn;t let up, yet at the same time, it's extremely catchy, Marty's solo's (especially over Holy Wars) are seriously some of the best metal solos ever recorded, again, IMO.

If I had to rank Megadeths Top 5:
1. Rust in Peace
2. Countdown To Extinction
3. Cryptic Writings
4. Peace Sells (mostly on the strength of Good mourning & The Conjuring)
5. United Abominations

Give UA a little more time, it may even rank higher on my list, its their best album since Cryptic Writings.

My list:

1 Youthanasia (first Deth album I was exposed to)
2 Rust In Peace
3 Countdown To Extinction
4 United Abominations
5 So Far, So Good, So What
6 Peace Sells
7 The System Has Failed

I hated Cryptic. Only song on there I enjoy is Vortex.

On another note, I had a chance to go see Metallica but can't make it to Lodon on Sunday thanks to work. :(

Man In Black

07-06-2007, 06:11 PM

My list:

1 Youthanasia (first Deth album I was exposed to)
2 Rust In Peace
3 Countdown To Extinction
4 United Abominations
5 So Far, So Good, So What
6 Peace Sells
7 The System Has Failed

I hated Cryptic. Only song on there I enjoy is Vortex.

On another note, I had a chance to go see Metallica but can't make it to Lodon on Sunday thanks to work. :(Eh, everyone knows Megadeths best album was Risk.

seriously, I'm not sure which was worse, Risk or ST. Anger......megadeths had their share of stinkers too.

PanzerMega

07-06-2007, 06:17 PM

For Megadeth I would go:

Rust In Peace
Peace Sells
Youthanasia
Countdown To Extinction
Killing Is My Business

DWEarhart

07-06-2007, 06:34 PM

My Megadeth list goes:

So Far, So Good, So What
Rust in Peace
Youthanasia
Peace Sells...
The System Has Failed
Countdown to Extinction
United Abominations
Killing is My Business...
Cryptic Writings
The World Needs a Hero
Risk

And for what it is Hidden Treasures is a cool collection.

TheLazy

07-06-2007, 06:56 PM

DWEarhart

07-06-2007, 07:01 PM

In your opinion, yes. But for my own reasons, I like'em the way I have'em.

Brad Barton

07-06-2007, 07:23 PM

Man, it's funny that so many people have Youthanasia in their top 3's. Youthanasia was universally panned, and just completely, all-around shit on since it's release...and now it seems like, in the minds of the fans, it's one of their most well regarded albums.

I like Youthanasia a lot, but it has one major, major problem. Every song is at the exact same tempo. Apparently this was Max Norman's recipe for Megadeth acheiving Metallica's level of mainstream success: Put every song, whether it's a ballad or an uptempo song, at a tempo radio stations will play, and hope one of them sticks.

This horrific production formula really killed the album. The songs are good, and a few of them I really, really dig, but they're not the songs they were meant to be. Dave has stated on multiple occasions that he made huge compromises while recording this record....and it sort of shows.

For the best of Friedman/Menza era 'Deth, give me R.I.P. or Countdown to Extinction over Youthanasia any day.

HectorP

07-06-2007, 08:42 PM

I was a big fan of the Youthanasia album when I first bought it, but with time the songs started to feel samey.

Deathstroke

07-06-2007, 09:27 PM

Yeah, I agree that the "stop hitting me, mommy" stuff seemed a bit forced....like they thought "Well, our name is Disturbed, maybe we should make it seem like we're....y'know, disturbed."

I actually liked the 2nd album a lot better. I thought it was a stronger album from start to finish, though lyrically it did take itself far too seriously. Tone down the P.C. and religious overtones of that album, and I think it's one of the best mainstream metal offerings of this decade.

I'm not noticing much love for 10,000 fists either. No one got into that one (Deathstroke)? I thought it was good....

Well, you can read what I thought about Ten Thousand Fists HERE! (http://www.rockislife.com/2006reviews/tenthousandfists.htm)

Deathstroke

07-06-2007, 09:30 PM

When it comes to Megadeth, my list pretty much begins and ends with Peace Sells...But Who's Buying? and So Far So Good So What.

I've never really been able to maintain much of an interest in the band. The guy who owns the site I write for cites Megadeth as his all time favorite band.

cactusmaac

07-07-2007, 03:29 AM

TheLazy

07-07-2007, 08:48 AM

Right I'm off the a real gig thats guna put Live earth to shame, I'll try and get some good photos on my phone for posting. Expect a gig report on monday.

Peace!

:evilsmile

PanzerMega

07-07-2007, 09:56 AM

In my circles, everyone I knew dug Youthanasia when it came out. It was Cryptic Writings where everyone started turning on Megadeth.

I know the tempos are all the same, but for some reason the songs have aged really well with me.

ImpulseUCF

07-07-2007, 11:22 AM

Peace Sells is a great album too, but it's got some weak tracks and overall pretty shitty production. Have you listened to the re-master? It makes it leagues beter than the original. From a guitar-playing/musician standpoint, the title track "Peace Sells" seems to be screaming to b redone as a blues song. Am I the only one that sees it? I want desperately to do a straight blues cover of it. The guitar parts seem made for harmonica, it has that slow, rhythmic chug that suits blues, the lyrics are bluesy..."Whatta ya mean I don't pay my bills? Why do ya think I'm broke?"

I also think Youthanasia is completely overrated and I agree that the compromises show. I like United Abominatinos, but something about Drover's solos just don't gel with me. He's very skilled technically, its very precise and controlled, but it lacks that energy and passion I'd expect with this kind of music. It's too safe. It's like...I keep waiting for him to hit the right notes, the high ones that make the crescendo or climax, and he never quite does.

Anyway, I know my ranking will personally differ from most everyone else's on the planet, but I'll try to explain properly.

1.) The System Has Failed & Rust in Peace - yes, a tie. For me, R.I.P. isj ust everything a speed metal band could ever aspire to be. Minor imperfectiosn at best. Some of the best soloing I have EVER heard. Friedman's solos on R.I.P. set the bar for me. Every single Deth guitarist before and since is evaluated on this scale (even Friedman) and nothing comes close.

As for TSHF, I was stunned that Dave put out such a spectacular metal album so late in his career. I loved the lyrics, I love that he had something to say and seemed to have grown "Of Mice and Men," and I love that for almost every single song they would start off at the mid-tempo, slow pace. I would be kinda disappointed but it was still solid, so still listening along...then BAM! Right our of nowhere, break out into ferocity! It was like Dave was playing along like "Radio, radio radio...METAL!!" I like every song on here. Solid commercially-friendly metal at its weakest points, great Megadeth moments at the best, and the solos fit the songs perfectly and had this upbeat, smooth boogie to them.

2. Countdown to Extinction & Cryptic Writings - Another tie. I may be biased on Cryptic because that was my first Megadeth album when I was getting into metal, but I still maintain the first 4 songs are an unbelievable intro to any metal album. To me, they were the perfect fusion of metal intensity and commercial viability. The solos were amazing, if different than RIP. I liked the slower songs, but the middle and end were decidedly weaker than the intro. Still, among my faves.

Countdown? A fresh take on the old school metal formula, aggressive, cathcy songs and top-notch technical performance. Solid gold.

And now the tricky part.

3. Peace Sells & United Abominations- Solid album, some shining moments of genius in the title track, Wake Up Dead, etc, but still a tad rough and unpolished in terms of techniqe. Phenomonal album.

UA - Dave's solos are utterly un-freakin-believable here. He's on another level of musical existence or something on this album. He as this controlled, frantic, chaotic feel that remains melodious and precise. Love it. Most of Drover's don't do anything for me, though, and I think it hurts the album. "You're Dead" and "Burnt Ice" alone make this one of my top albums. My GOD, the ending of "Burnt Ice" is unbelievable.

4. So Far, So Good.... - This album takes a lot of heat, but I enjoy it from start to finish. Solid blues-based speed metal. Not sure where the hate comes from.

5. Youthanasia - Again, some solid songs, but mostly same-sounding, generic, weak, and uninspired to me. Every song has the same tempo and I hate thbe guitar tones on this one, but it had some killer solos and leads. Meh overall.

6. Killing is My Business - Very raw, but showed the brilliance that was to come.

7. Risk - Yes, I don't think Risk is the worst because although it was different and mostly a dud, at least Dave was trying something different. You can tell there was some effort here, and it shows.

8. The World Needs a Hero - Garbage. Uninspired, crappy garbage. I give it respect for what it is, though. The necessary step where Dave re-learned how to write metal songs again. I think he was still off course by trying the commercial approach and this was him trying ot get his head straight. This album suffered for it, but the System Has Failed is the culmination of the effort.

That's my thoughts.

stealthwise

07-07-2007, 06:14 PM

Eh, everyone knows Megadeths best album was Risk.

seriously, I'm not sure which was worse, Risk or ST. Anger......megadeths had their share of stinkers too.

World Needs a Hero. Seriously, that album was terrible. Risk wasn't bad, it just wasn't a metal album at all, and it wasn't really Megadeth.

St. Anger just needed some actual production, it's just pro-Tools cut and paste for the sake of putting out an album after such a long wait.

Anyways, anyone here listen to Slipknot? I really didn't like their first two albums, even though they rocked live in 1999, but this last album really worked for me. It's fast, ferocious, raucous and melodic all at the same time.

DWEarhart

07-07-2007, 06:19 PM

Loved the first album, the second one (Iowa) was okay but overall disappointing, then they bounced back quite nicely with Vol. 3.

They're good live, too. I got to catch'em just before their debut album came out, then again on Ozzfest, and finally on a co-headliner with Lamb of God. That night Lamb of God kicked ass, but that's the only time I've seen'em, so if that ends up being the last time, I'm glad they were great, but I wouldn't mind checking'em out again.

HectorP

07-07-2007, 07:03 PM

Brad Barton

07-07-2007, 08:25 PM

I like United Abominatinos, but something about Drover's solos just don't gel with me. He's very skilled technically, its very precise and controlled, but it lacks that energy and passion I'd expect with this kind of music. It's too safe. It's like...I keep waiting for him to hit the right notes, the high ones that make the crescendo or climax, and he never quite does.I'm definitely with you here. Every time I hear a Drover solo, I keep waiting to get that tingly feeling that the most awesome Friedman or Hammett solo's give me, and it just never comes...

1.) Rust in Peace - yes, a tie. For me, R.I.P. isj ust everything a speed metal band could ever aspire to be. Minor imperfectiosn at best. Some of the best soloing I have EVER heard. Friedman's solos on R.I.P. set the bar for me. Every single Deth guitarist before and since is evaluated on this scale (even Friedman) and nothing comes close.I can't add anything to this, as it sums up my thoughts almost exactly.

As for TSHF, I was stunned that Dave put out such a spectacular metal album so late in his career. I loved the lyrics, I love that he had something to say and seemed to have grown "Of Mice and Men," and I love that for almost every single song they would start off at the mid-tempo, slow pace. I would be kinda disappointed but it was still solid, so still listening along...then BAM! Right our of nowhere, break out into ferocity! It was like Dave was playing along like "Radio, radio radio...METAL!!" I like every song on here. Solid commercially-friendly metal at its weakest points, great Megadeth moments at the best, and the solos fit the songs perfectly and had this upbeat, smooth boogie to them.I liked TSHF too, it has some great songs and that old Megadeth spirit we all know and love -- on some songs. Then there are others that are clearly aimed at radio airplay, which is not a bad thing in itself, it is what it is, but it makes the album seem off kilter.
It hops from Old-school metal tracks like Blackmail the Universe straight into radio-friendly diddy's like Die Dead Enough...and it just seemed manufactured to me. Like dave took a bunch of songs he'd written at various points (and styles) of Megadeths career that they never used, crunched 'em together and made them an album.

Another thing about TSHF that nudged it off my top 5 was the excessive Talk-Metal.
Dave Mustaine is notorious for Talking his lyrics over a riff and eschewing the melody-line, and this works sometimes, maybe once an album at most (Sweating Bullets, for instance), but TSHF is plagued with Talk-Metal. It has 2 or 3 songs where dave just straight up talks the lyrics over a generic sounding riff with a slightly demonic inflection in his voice -- it's almost like spoken-word Metal.
UA has this problem as well, but the album is just so much more solid to me. It seems like every song was written in the same time-frame, being mindful of the album they were trying to make. They adhere to each other a lot smoother.

Countdown? A fresh take on the old school metal formula, aggressive, cathcy songs and top-notch technical performance. Solid gold.It's Megadeth's "Black Album", and much like the Black Album it doesn't have one really weak track on it.
This may be literally the only Megadeth album that I don't skip at least one track while listening to. Insanely solid album, the high-point of their pro career.

7. Risk - Yes, I don't think Risk is the worst because although it was different and mostly a dud, at least Dave was trying something different. You can tell there was some effort here, and it shows. You know, if you put Risk on and tell youself "this is not a Megadeth album"....some of the songs are actually pretty damn good. Seriously.
Yes, Dave sold out and made some pop-Metal songs....but take them for what they are and there is actually some damn good music on Risk.
Prince of Darkness, the Doctor is Calling and the "Time" songs are killer tunes. They aren't thrash, but they're good songs.

8. The World Needs a Hero - Garbage. Uninspired, crappy garbage. I give it respect for what it is, though. The necessary step where Dave re-learned how to write metal songs again. I think he was still off course by trying the commercial approach and this was him trying ot get his head straight. This album suffered for it, but the System Has Failed is the culmination of the effort.I liked WNAH for one reason: The cover. Best Megadeth album cover ever. It deserved a better album than WNAH...even though I thought Burning Bridges and Disconnect were good songs.

Man In Black

07-07-2007, 09:45 PM

They say the music you first listen when you're 13/14 is what you judge everything else by and for me that's Youthanasia.nah, if that were the case, Id stil be listening to Spin doctors. :D

I think musical tastes can change a lot as you age....take Youthenasia for example, when it first came out I absolutely hated it. Now I just really, really don't like it.
For megadeth, it really does begin and end with Peace sells.....after Poland left they lost their way.

DWEarhart

07-07-2007, 10:52 PM

Hell yeah they can change. I grew up on Obituary, Tesla, Cannibal Corpse, Def Leppard, Kreator, N.W.A., New Order, Venom, and the list goes on, but my musical tastes have always spread throughout the entire spectrum. It's all just a part of growing up, and even now I'm going back to the 50's and 60's to find some good stuff.

I always favored rock and metal, but I would never turn down a chance to hear something new.

DWEarhart

07-07-2007, 11:21 PM

Does anybody know if the Anniversary Edition of Machine Head's Burn My Eyes is still going to be out? I want that album, but if a 2 CD edition is going to be available I'd rather wait a little and have that one.

Rob Flynn wrote on the Machine Head blog that it's been cancelled. It was supposed to be out in October of 2006, then September 2007.

From that blog post:
This is the year of The Blackening, and the time frame to re-release it has passed, not to mention that the idea of re-releasing a 13-year old album that we already celebrated with 2 anniversary shows (3 years ago) makes zero sense to us. We were never excited about re-issuing it to begin with, as it was just gonna have a bunch of b-sides, and wouldn't have been nearly as cool some of the other re-issues that had DVDs and all sorts of cool shit... so, as much as some of you may be bummed, know that it's better this way."

HectorP

07-07-2007, 11:33 PM

Well, pity. I'm a sucker for special editions when they are good-looking and the core material warrants it, although I hate double-dipping. And yes, too late for the Roadrunner reissue campaign.

Best reissues that are also among my favorite albums: Operation: Mindcrime, Demanufacture and 1987.

DWEarhart

07-07-2007, 11:36 PM

I've always enjoyed Fear Factory's remixes. I just wish they'd bring Rhys Fulber back to produce or help with one of their albums, though they've improved leaps and bounds after (and it hurst saying knowing what a good rhythmist he is) after Dino left. On their last leg of the tour they dipped back into Soul of a New Machine, and were playing more songs from that album, so I'm curious to see if they go heavier, but I was ready to drop'em after Digimortal. I'm glad I stuck around.

cactusmaac

07-08-2007, 01:24 AM

I thought The System Has Failed was a nice effort after the trifecta of Cryptic, Risk and World Needs A Hero had me despairing of ever having a new Megadeth album I really enjoyed.

Some really good songs although it suffered by being Dave's therapy vehicle.

I was really surprised to learn the songs for System and United Abominations were done at the same recording session.

That's not to say the other three albums were all bad. I liked Insomnia, the Time songs and Wanderlust from Risk, Vortex, Almost Honest and Have Cool Will Travel from Cryptic and Disconnect, Dread and the Fugitive Mind and Return To Hangar from World Needs A Hero. However, listening to all the songs on them was pretty dispiriting compared to the previous ones.

cactusmaac

07-08-2007, 01:26 AM

cactusmaac

07-08-2007, 01:28 AM

ignore........

cactusmaac

07-08-2007, 01:29 AM

ignore........

Brad Barton

07-08-2007, 02:42 AM

Right I'm off the a real gig thats guna put Live earth to shame, I'll try and get some good photos on my phone for posting. Expect a gig report on monday.

Peace!

:evilsmileAwesome man, bring us back a cool pic or two, try to get james to flip off the camera.

Man, it's so easy to capture a live performance these days, everyone has a video camera on their phone, so now when some band has a bad night and turns out a shitty performance, there will almost certainly be 2,000 cell-phone video's of it on Youtube the next day.

Lazy: Let us know how it went, man. I want a full gig report...hopefully they pick Wembley to unveil a new song, and if they do, that had better get the damn thing on your phone. ;)

ImpulseUCF

07-08-2007, 06:30 AM

I was really surprised to learn the songs for System and United Abominations were done at the same recording session.:eek: Really?? That seems....very odd. The two albums sound very, very different to me. Do you have a source for that?

As for System being Dave's therapy vehicle...that's one way to look at it. Another is that he felt passionate about the lyrics and actually had something meaningful to say. :) That's how I took it, anyway.

And I like Risk a lot better than The World Needs a Hero. Risk was different and not terribly good, but they were trying. TWNAH should have been good, but it was weak. Weak, weak, weak. It almost felt like a parody of Megadeth. I enjoyed Return to Hangar and Recipe For Hate...Warhorse. I think one of the major detractors was Pitreli's guitar solos. I don't know, they didn't work for me and sub-par solos really detract from a Megadeth album considering great playing is one of the key selling points.

Why the hate for post-Peace Sells? They had some of the best work of their career after that.

DonC

07-08-2007, 09:35 AM

:eek: Really?? That seems....very odd. The two albums sound very, very different to me. Do you have a source for that?

I don't know about recording, but Dave's always had a habit of holding songs back. "Set the World Afire" was the first song he ever wrote for Megadeth but they didn't record it until their third album.

cactusmaac

07-08-2007, 01:01 PM

:eek: Really?? That seems....very odd. The two albums sound very, very different to me. Do you have a source for that?

I think it was Metal Hammer, but can't remember. A lot of the session work seems to have been done after System was released though. Maybe they were just initially laid out then.

Brad Barton

07-08-2007, 01:37 PM

:eek: Really?? That seems....very odd. The two albums sound very, very different to me. Do you have a source for that?Yeah, Dave did say that in an interview somewhere, I think I read it at Megadeth.com.....and I think he may have been pulling our leg a bit.

I think maybe he wrote a few of the songs on UA when he wrote TSHF, then decided they didn't fit the tone of the album or whatever (which is funny, because TSHF didn't really have a consistent "tone"). Then took those remaining songs, wrote a few more and made UA.

That's all speculation, of course, but that's what it seems like to me.

ImpulseUCF

07-08-2007, 07:36 PM

I'm definitely with you here. Every time I hear a Drover solo, I keep waiting to get that tingly feeling that the most awesome Friedman or Hammett solo's give me, and it just never comes... He had a few good ones. The little building-intensity quick one near the end of "Never Walk Alone" was pretty ace, and most of the guitars from Amerikhastan were solid, but listening to Dave this album made me wonder why he even needs a second guitarist. Man, you forget the guy can rip and shred with the best of them.
I liked TSHF too, it has some great songs and that old Megadeth spirit we all know and love -- on some songs. Then there are others that are clearly aimed at radio airplay, which is not a bad thing in itself, it is what it is, but it makes the album seem off kilter.
It hops from Old-school metal tracks like Blackmail the Universe straight into radio-friendly diddy's like Die Dead Enough...and it just seemed manufactured to me. Like dave took a bunch of songs he'd written at various points (and styles) of Megadeths career that they never used, crunched 'em together and made them an album.I guess I can see where you're coming from although I don't agree. I thought the flow from intensity to a little break here and there, to a mid-tempo pace for a while, okay, pick it back up.. was all very well done. It felt balanced to me and I just really dig the flow. It's one of the few albums I can listen to start to finish and enjoy every song, even if I skip some sometimes.

Another thing about TSHF that nudged it off my top 5 was the excessive Talk-Metal.Yeah, I can see that. It doesn't bother me, but I sometimes skip those tracks.
UA has this problem as well, but the album is just so much more solid to me. It seems like every song was written in the same time-frame, being mindful of the album they were trying to make. They adhere to each other a lot smoother. See, I can't put my finger on it exactly but there is something about the way UA sounds that doesn't feel right to me. I think it's a tad over-produced, especially the drums and bass. The drums seem stripped of all personality. Instead of having its own voice, the kit seems to only serve the purpose of providing a 'boom' and a 'thap' on this album. What a complete and utter waste of renting Bonham's kit, too. You can't hear it at all, which is a shame. Bonham had a very distinctive sound and I woudl assume that would be the point of renting the kit.

I also think UA was better from a technical perspective than TSHF, but I don't think the songwriting is as solid or catchy. It's a good technical showcase of solid metal and heavy songs, but I don't think the end result delivers like TSHF did.

Still, TSHF is one of my favorite albums all around, but that's just me. I think it's easily their best since Countdown.

It's Megadeth's "Black Album", and much like the Black Album it doesn't have one really weak track on it.Honestly? I think Countdown is better than Metallica's Black Album. I loved Black the first time I heard it, but the more I listen to it, the more it sounds like a bunch of mediocre songs performed really, really, really, really ridiculously well. Like, if ever there was a case for presentation over quality, this is it. It's like... a collection of a bunch of mediocre songs, a few really good songs, and Enter Sandman, which is just an amazing piece of metallic beauty. The production and presentation bump up the grade and impact significantly.
I liked WNAH for one reason: The cover. Best Megadeth album cover ever. It deserved a better album than WNAH...even though I thought Burning Bridges and Disconnect were good songs.Heheh. Yeah, the cover was pretty cool, but it's almost more insulting that the album wasn't worthy. Still, the cover was a pretty clear mission statement to get back on track, and Dave followed through next time for sure.

Pantera? I haven't heard anything pre-Cowboys, but I think they peaked CFH and VDoP. FBD was much more intense, but I don't think it necessarily made them better. I have to be in the mood for The Great Southern Trendkill... it sounded more generic than the rest with the downtuned guitars and Phil's unlistenable and undistinguishable screaming. Ehh, my melodic vocal bias is showing. :). Still, Phil showed he could actually sing and balanced with the aggressive bark-yell thing on their first couple albums really well so I thought it was a shame he went so far off track. If I recall, though, that was around the time he got hooked on heroin, so there you go. I didn't bother with Reinventing the Steel after TGSTK...it just seemed like more of the same that I didn't like.

Man In Black

07-08-2007, 11:03 PM

I didn't bother with Reinventing the Steel after TGSTK...it just seemed like more of the same that I didn't like.Well then you missed a great album, reinventing was probably their third best album after vulgar display, and had some of my favorite pantera songs on it...It makes them disappear, Yesterday dont mean shit, I'll cast a shadow, Uplift....your telling me you didn't like any of these songs?

I loved reinventing....think it was an excellent final album for Pantera and a respectable one.

stealthwise

07-08-2007, 11:54 PM

Well then you missed a great album, reinventing was probably their third best album after vulgar display, and had some of my favorite pantera songs on it...It makes them disappear, Yesterday dont mean shit, I'll cast a shadow, Uplift....your telling me you didn't like any of these songs?

I loved reinventing....think it was an excellent final album for Pantera and a respectable one.

Seriously? I frigging hate that album, want to burn every single copy of it, and pretend that it never existed.

The quality of songs on that one is so low that you might as well listen to Power Metal, the vocals are terrible, the guitars are sloppy, and the production quality is about a fingernail's width above St. Anger throughout most of it. And the actual lyrics are completely nonsensical and terribly shallow in the "rah rah I'll smash your face way," a style that Pantera had been perfecting since Vulgar Display of Power, only none of them work well here.

While we're onto the subject of Pantera, is it just me, or is the song "Five Minutes Alone" really overrated, especially compared to hidden gems like "Throes of Rejection" or "By Demons Be Driven"?

Brad Barton

07-09-2007, 02:46 AM

While we're onto the subject of Pantera... I figure we may as well all spew our thoughts on Pantera as we did Megadeth, so I'll start...

Pre-CFH: This includes "Power Metal" and all the other "pre-recording deal" indie albums they released. Not super familiar with any of them, but what I have heard sounded much like the Pantera we know, maybe a bit happier and not nearly as aggressive...but extremely similar.
"The Crow" Movie soundtrack had a really cool song called "The Badge" that was supposedly recorded in 1986 (according to the album sleeve) but Phil was singing, and I always thought Terry Blaze was their singer at that time....either way, the few songs I've heard from that era (aside from The Badge) have been not really good, not really bad, just..."eh".

CFH: Great album, and a killer first mainstream offering that really redefined metal in the 90's after the greasy haired seattle people took over. You can almost cite CFH, alongside The Black Album, as singlehandedly saving metal from complete obscurity in the early 90's.
It's obvious the band are trying their best to make the transition from glam/hair rockers to Power Metal musicians, as told in the few Sebastian Bach moments Phil has with the vocals, despite his best efforts.
Not to mention the Album cover (which was cheesy beyond belief.)
Even so, it's a really solid album most of the way through, with the highlights for me being the title track, Domination, Psycho Holiday and The Art of Shredding. This may be the epitome of Dime's playing with Pantera. He sort of plateaued with VDoP, and only went downhill after that.

Vulgar Display: Not only Pantera's best album, but probably one of the best metal offerings ever recorded. VDoP hit the nail on the head as far as combining their new style, good songs and aggression. When we talk about "solid" Metal albums, VDoP must be considered among them...the weakest songs on this are probabaly better than the best songs on Trendkill.
Rise is one of my all-time favorite songs from any band, and IMO is the most underrated Pantera song (even before By Demons be Driven). Beyond Rise, it's hard for me to single out the best songs on the album, because really, they're all pretty frickin' awesome. (Though I have to give extra props to "Hollow")

Far Beyond Driven: They went really, really dark with this album, and the crisper, more straighforward riffs and melodies turned into dark, sort of twisted, fucked up sounds.
It has some great songs (Shedding Skin, Throes of rejection, Becoming) but MAN is this album morbid. It was really almost like a completely different band from Vulgar Display.

Trendkill: I like this album a lot more than most. It's probably their weakest overall, which is pretty good for Pantera's cred considering it's not that horrible. It's much like FBD (or even worse) with the morbidity and whacked out energies it emits, but if I'm in the mood to hear it, this album completely hits home for me.
I love 10's, War nerve, Suicide Note 1 and Floods...though I usually skip past a few of the songs. (especially Suicide Note II...MAN is that song a piece of shit.)

Reinventing the Steel: I agree with the other guy that this album wasn't completely horrible, and it seemed like they snapped out of the Death-angel phase they'd been going through with FBD and TGSTK and got back to some Old-School "metal is our religion" type of stuff.
Phil's vocals were pretty crappy on this album, it seemed like when they couldn't come up with a melody to go over a riff they just had Phil scream as loud as he could, which didn't always work. Nevertheless-- It makes Them Disappear, Goddamn Electric and I'll cast a Shadow are some of my fav. Pantera tunes...always at the top of my Pantera playlist when I have one.

Oh yeah and I like Hellbound too. If you're a Pantera fan from Ft. Worth, you're pretty much required to. ;)

is it just me, or is the song "Five Minutes Alone" really overrated, especially compared to hidden gems like "Throes of Rejection" or "By Demons Be Driven"?I like FIve Minutes Alone enough, though I do get sick of hearing it and have been known to skip past it when listening to FBD...
And yes, Throes of Rejection and By Demons are killer...Demon's lyrics are so silly that they kind of bring it down a notch, but man that is a killer vocal hook Phil came up with for the verse, classic Pantera.

P-Man

07-09-2007, 06:18 AM

I differ from most Pantera fans in that I love The Great Southern Trendkill and HATE Far Beyond Driven. Trendkill had some great experimental stuff on Floods and Suicide Note part 1, and the traditional style songs really work well. Only bad spot is Suicide Note part 2, which is horrible. Far Beyond Driven SUCKS. I have to disagree with stealthwise cause I love me some 5 Minutes Alone , but other than that I can't really name a song on the album. Phil's vocals are horrendous, and the songs seem kind of uninspired.

I pretty much share the majority opinion on the rest of their albums. Cowboys is Good, Vulgar Display of Power kicks total ass, and Reinventing the Steel is mediocre save for some bright spots.

ImpulseUCF

07-09-2007, 09:47 AM

Pre-Phil- I haven't heard any of their stuff from this era, but I would love to if it's available. I also dug the song on "The Crow" soundtrack. That was a really, really good soundtrack and actually felt like an album. Hard to find.

Cowboys From Hell- To me, this was their peak. Dime's playing was heavy, hard, fast, groovy, funky and very distinctive. I think was their most creative album as far as their "mainstream" Albums go, and I love some of the holdover singing and falsetto. Phil knocks it out of the park on Cemetary Gates and Shattered, the title track has this jumpy, bouncy groovy cadence to the main riff. All around great album and my personal favorite.

Vulgar Display of Power- Probably their most commercially successful album. It has the same intensity, quality, dinstinctive sound and flavor of CFH, but slightly less melodic and catchy overall. Extremely solid, and I think this and CFH define the high points of Pantera's career.

Far Beyond Driven- What it lacked in songwriting finesse it made up for in sheer brutality and power. But the lyrics!! Whoa!! Very dark stuff. Great album, showed the early stages of Pantera's descent into the cacaphonous spiral into dissonant, sloppy white noise (IMO) but was still very solid. It's a bit too extreme for my casual rotation and definitely lacks any mainstream accessibility or polish. Still a solid album.

The Great Southern Trendkill- Coinciding nicely with Phil's heroin dependence, this marks a huge downturn in my enjoyment of the band, sadly.
The guitars sound much more generic than previous efforts, laden with mushy down-tuned riffs and lacking the creative and stylistic flare that marked Dime's earlier work. Phil doesn't even fake an attempt at melody on half the songs which is a personal pet peeve of mine since I know he can sing his butt off. He used to balance the screaming, barking yell thing with a hint of melody so well that perfectly suited the music, but here it's just scream scream scream! I like that intensity as accent or spice. If a sung note is a period, a screamed line is an exclamation point. Screaming the entire album is just rude. :)

Still, there were a few solid tracks and if I'm in the right mood, I love to blast the title track in my car. Very fast driving ensues.

Reinventing the Steel- I don't know. After TGSTK let me down so much I was afraid Reinventing the Steel would just be more of the same. With Phil's drug addiction and increasing distance from the band I guess I assumed their prime was past and it would be more of the songs I didn't like from the last album. I previewed the tracks on iTunes and it may just be the clips they selected, but nothing really stuck out to me and the vocals were as bad as TGSTK, so I passed. Is it worth picking up for someone who only kinda dug TGSTK?

There's my thoughts on them. Their first two albums are generally on my music rotation at any given time. FBD sometimes and TGSTK only when I want to hear something brutal.

stealthwise

07-09-2007, 10:42 AM

Don't get me wrong, I like "5 Minutes Alone," but I found it be very overplayed and talked about far too much when I was but a young metalhead.

And I can't believe I forgot about "Rise," that's a great song. Very anthemic, although in a good way.

ImpulseUCF

07-09-2007, 01:02 PM

Rockin' out ot Godsmack's "Awake." Love the title track. Simple but intense. Great production and great presentation really help Sully and the guys sell this one.

The Girls

07-09-2007, 01:30 PM

All I can say is METALLICA! !,,!

http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t288/MommaOf207/Metallica/Metallica_9_-_East_Rutherford_NJ_10.jpg

http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t288/MommaOf207/Metallica/Metallica-Group1.jpg

Of course I have others that I like, but Metallica is at the top of the list, by far! !,,!

Deathstroke

07-09-2007, 01:56 PM

All I can say is METALLICA! !,,!

http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t288/MommaOf207/Metallica/Metallica_9_-_East_Rutherford_NJ_10.jpg

Of course I have others that I like, but Metallica is at the top of the list, by far! !,,!

Great pic, too bad that's about as much REAL heat they've had musically in years.

Metallica Shall Never Be Forgiven For St. Anger.

DWEarhart

07-09-2007, 02:13 PM

I figure we may as well all spew our thoughts on Pantera as we did Megadeth, so I'll start...

Pre-CFH: This includes "Power Metal" and all the other "pre-recording deal" indie albums they released. Not super familiar with any of them, but what I have heard sounded much like the Pantera we know, maybe a bit happier and not nearly as aggressive...but extremely similar.
"The Crow" Movie soundtrack had a really cool song called "The Badge" that was supposedly recorded in 1986 (according to the album sleeve) but Phil was singing, and I always thought Terry Blaze was their singer at that time....either way, the few songs I've heard from that era (aside from The Badge) have been not really good, not really bad, just..."eh".

The Badge is a cover song. Poison Idea originally recorded it. Just an fyi.

ImpulseUCF

07-09-2007, 02:22 PM

Great pic, too bad that's about as much REAL heat they've had musically in years.

Metallica Shall Never Be Forgiven For St. Anger.I know I'm in the minority, but I really enjoyed that record. It takes some getting used to the jarring difference, but I love from tracks 4 through the end. A tad long and repetitive, but it's raw and aggressive and has some great songs. It just needed some editing, arranging, production and solos and it would have been great.

I really enjoy Dirty Window, Invisible Kid, Shoot Me Again, Sweet Amber and The Unnamed Feeling.

The Girls

07-09-2007, 02:37 PM

Great pic, too bad that's about as much REAL heat they've had musically in years.

Metallica Shall Never Be Forgiven For St. Anger.

Metallica is back.... Maybe they will never be forgiven for St. Anger but no one will forget everything else they did.

As far as I am concerned they have all the HEAT they need. They have James! ;)

Brad Barton

07-09-2007, 03:27 PM

The Badge is a cover song. Poison Idea originally recorded it. Just an fyi.Hunh...ya don't say. I really had no idea it was a cover song...but now that you say it, it makes perfect sense.

Great Cover.

I know I'm in the minority, but I really enjoyed that record. It takes some getting used to the jarring difference, but I love from tracks 4 through the end. A tad long and repetitive, but it's raw and aggressive and has some great songs. It just needed some editing, arranging, production and solos and it would have been great.

I really enjoy Dirty Window, Invisible Kid, Shoot Me Again, Sweet Amber and The Unnamed Feeling.Completely agree. No matter how produced it was, it would'nt have been their best album, the material just wasn't good enough, but I still think if they'd produced this like they produced the Black Album, it wouldn't have been a fraction of the disaster it turned out to be.

Hell, if it were just the crappy production I could still get some enjoyment out of it, but then I start hearing that frying-pan snare drum, and the hair stands up on my arms and my teeth start to grind together and I must turn off the album or go insane.

Still enoy Unnamed Feeling, Shoot me Again and All withtin My Hands though, despite the *shudder* snare drum sound.

Metallica is back.... Maybe they will never be forgiven for St. Anger but no one will forget everything else they did.Damn straight! And as long as they produce the next album, it'll probably be good too.

Rattlehead

07-09-2007, 03:55 PM

Damn straight! And as long as they produce the next album, it'll probably be good too.

It's Rick Rubin on the Production side of things this time around. He probably won't be a pushover like Bob Rock was on St. Anger, Metallica was Bob's cash cow after all, but if that godawful Slayer album Christ Illusion is any indication, I wouldn't expect much from it. More attempts at 'modernizing" their sound, which hasn't really worked out for them. The guys who made those classic albums back in the 80's are long gone, and anything they do from here on out will be money oriented as opposed to art. I lost all hope for them after seeing Some Kind of Monster, they really aren't concerned with making music for the sake of making music anymore.

TheLazy

07-09-2007, 05:04 PM

And I return!

I could format this review as a song by song critique, I could do it in a rating system, I could even take individual elements, but I wont because I was rtoo pissed to do anything but rock.

The gig was fcuking (:o ) amazing. I was too busy drinking and stuffing my face to get there to see mastodon which is sucky, but i got to see machine heads solid set, the crappy Him and thir crappy set, and thanks to a trip tpo the mens room I almost missed tallica start.

They plaied through a good selection of old and new, and particular highlights include an extened performance of the memory remains with 60,000+ people singing and clapping along on their feet. And the firworks at the begining of one, and the chants during seek and destroy, it was great.

Erebus

07-09-2007, 08:01 PM

I don't know why everyone's complaining about As Blood Runs Black's new drummer.
Sure, Lech was good, and it was a shitty thing they did, but as long as they keep on making good music, I'm happy.

HectorP

07-09-2007, 08:02 PM

Christ Illusion was a good album for me, but I prefer God Hates Us All, has more bite in my opinion. And I wouldn't lose hope on classic bands. All I know of Exodus is the last two albums, and I can only hope the alleged 80's classics (Bonded by Blood and Fabulous Disaster) can be as good. Especially Tempo of the Damned, which is like an AC/DC album gone thrash. At least I know Toxic Waltz is a kickass song.

Man In Black

07-09-2007, 10:36 PM

Christ Illusion was a good album for me, but I prefer God Hates Us All, God hates Us ALl was really kind of horrible....totally uninspired, by-the-numbers slayer album.

Not saying christ illusion is much better, but its certainly better than GHUA....I doint think slayers recorded an album thats added anything contructive to their repetoire since diabolus in musica, which has been almost 10 years now.

The Girls

07-09-2007, 11:17 PM

HectorP

07-10-2007, 12:13 AM

God hates Us ALl was really kind of horrible....totally uninspired, by-the-numbers slayer album.

Not saying christ illusion is much better, but its certainly better than GHUA....I doint think slayers recorded an album thats added anything contructive to their repetoire since diabolus in musica, which has been almost 10 years now.

Oddly, I think the same but in reverse. I prefer God Hates Us All because it's heavier, angrier and more distorted. It's their signature sound and they push it to its extremes without experimenting much. I agree on Slayer's kinda immobile sound. You could say the same about other old bands like Motorhead. If I want a larger-than-life experience I often turn to Strapping Young Lad instead.

howyadoin

07-10-2007, 01:20 AM

I know I'm in the minority, but I really enjoyed that record. It takes some getting used to the jarring difference, but I love from tracks 4 through the end. A tad long and repetitive, but it's raw and aggressive and has some great songs. It just needed some editing, arranging, production and solos and it would have been great.I think they should've scrapped the entire album and released the audio from the practice DVD they recorded with Rob Trujillo. That guy's a monster.

Brad Barton

07-10-2007, 05:44 AM

I think they should've scrapped the entire album and released the audio from the practice DVD they recorded with Rob Trujillo. That guy's a monster.Yup, sad to say, that live recorded album that came with St. Anger actually sounded better than the album itself....it's wierd when you have to put on the bonus DVD to hear St. Anger in a way that's listenable.

Still, I can forgive them one horribly bad album. Hell, I've been a Metallica fan so long (18+ years) that I'd probably forgive them another bad album too, but man, it'd be really heartbreaking...

Howya: I'm sure you haven't heard this yet, but you look like Edward Norton from American History X in that avatar pic dude.

ImpulseUCF

07-10-2007, 07:33 AM

I think they should've scrapped the entire album and released the audio from the practice DVD they recorded with Rob Trujillo. That guy's a monster.You know, I've heard that. I don't mind the recorded version and I haven't listened to the DVD in years (I blasted it on the surround sound while painting my bedroom in my old college place)and it was good. Trujillo is nuts, no question. I've been too lazy, but I really ought to rip the audio from the DVD and burn it as my copy of the CD.

I don't even think St. Anger was a terrible album... just poorly handled. Where the Black album was near perfect presentation of mediocre to really good material, St. Anger is pitiful presentation of decent - pretty good material, so the end results are vastly different. Justice was pitiful presentation of INCREDIBLE material and withstands shoddy production. :) Still, it's not the snare that bothers me on St. Anger, it's the cymbal bleed...aaarrrgghh, just that generic, awful ambient TSSSHHHH in EVERYTHING. It almost ruins The Unnamed Feeling for me...almost.

Also, one thing I must say that amuses me... off all the threads I post in on the internet forums, the heavy metal thread here is by far the most civil, polite and genuinely friendly thread I've had the pleasure of posting in. Who'd a thought that? So much for all those crazy heavy metal guys. :p

Complaint Man

07-10-2007, 09:28 AM

lol, but I'm glad to be able to discuss my metal in a civil manner.

It seems Metallica is beginning to work their way back in the good graces of the metal community as it were. I have high expectations of them now that they have crawled out from underneath the HORRIBLE Bob Rock.

ImpulseUCF

07-10-2007, 09:40 AM

Rattlehead

07-10-2007, 10:13 AM

Oh, don't get me wrong, I LIKE the civility. It's just pleasantly surprising. :)

Anybody ever get into Infectious Grooves? One of Robert Trujillo's older projects. Think funk, punk, metal and ridiculous humor rolled into one. Great stuff.

Rob Trujillo was also in Suicidal Tendencies, which is the "parent" band of Infectiuos Grooves. He does an awesome little slap-Bass solo on Send Me Your Money from the 'Lights, Camera, Revolution" album. He's a really underrated Bass player, and I'm happy to see the guy finally get recognition for his skills. Hell, Suicidal Tendencies is an underrated band, to be honest.

Complaint Man

07-10-2007, 11:38 AM

Yeah I listened to Suicidal Tendencies back in the day. Good band, Trujillo is the shit. I hope he actually gets to show more of his skill on the next album.

Brad Barton

07-10-2007, 02:39 PM

Yeah I listened to Suicidal Tendencies back in the day. Good band, Trujillo is the shit. I hope he actually gets to show more of his skill on the next album.My cousin and I actually saw Suicidal Tendencies in Bakersfield, Ca many, many moons ago, when Rob was still in the band.
I think it's fitting that my main memory of the whole thing was walking into the club and immediately feeling Rob's low, guttural bass just resonate through my chest....man, he is a monster on the bass, I can't tell you how satisfied I was when he was chosen for the band. They really did knock it out of the park with him.

Does it seem to anyone else like Rob's actually been their bass player for a lot longer than he really has? No disrespect to jason (whom I'm a huge fan of as well), but I actually think Rob may be a better fit for the band than he ever was...

When I heard Rob pull off Cliff's bass solo in Orion, as they were playing Master in it's entirety on the summer tour last year, my jaw just dropped...

I never heard Jason play anything like that.

Brad Barton

07-10-2007, 02:44 PM

Also, one thing I must say that amuses me... off all the threads I post in on the internet forums, the heavy metal thread here is by far the most civil, polite and genuinely friendly thread I've had the pleasure of posting in. Who'd a thought that? So much for all those crazy heavy metal guys. :pI know what you mean. I love that I can go back and browse through the previous pages of this thread and not see ONE back and forth, multi-quoting, dick-measuring "forum fight" that the comic sides of these forums (and sometimes, shamefully, even I myself) are prone to falling into.

When we disagree with each other, we actually give sound reasons why (who'da thunk it?), and even better yet, we dont allude that other people are idiots for not sharing our opinions.....that's all it really takes to keep a civil discussion going; mutual respect.

leonaozaki

07-10-2007, 06:41 PM

Having read all of the Megadeth posts, I am reminded that (a) I looooved Rust in Peace way back when, and that (b) it still holds up even if Dave can't really sing, and (c) I hated Youthanasia. I liked the three records leading up to RIP but after Youthanasia I stopped really listening.

But Rust in Peace is still a great speedmetal album.

rob

ImpulseUCF

07-10-2007, 08:01 PM

HectorP

07-10-2007, 08:13 PM

I find it hard to decide on best Megadeth albums, since Rust, Peace, Cryptic and Countdown all have good things going for them (Peace edges it out, though). Youthanasia and System are a little behind of them, and from there it's Hero, which I don't hate but it's nothing spectacular. Haven't heard Risk (don't intend to) or the debut.

stealthwise

07-10-2007, 08:28 PM

The Unnamed Feeling is one of Metallica's best songs. Period.

HectorP

07-10-2007, 10:23 PM

The Unnamed Feeling is one of Metallica's best songs. Period.

Tough competition for that one, to be sure.

Man In Black

07-10-2007, 10:28 PM

The Unnamed Feeling is one of Metallica's best songs. Period.This was probaby the best song off St. stinker.....this one and shoot me again, those are really the only two I can listen to and appreciate...

I was over checking out the Metallica.com message boards (http://www.metallicabb.com) and looking at pics and links on the boards and noticed how religious james seems to be these days. Has anyone else noticed the "Faith" and Jesus Christ tats he has on his arms? Not saying theres anything wrong with that, but talk about wearing it on your sleeve...

I'd bet money the next metallica albums lyrics will have religious undertones...I just hope James doesn't go the way of Creed, start pulling Jesus poses in concert etc.

howyadoin

07-10-2007, 11:20 PM

Howya: I'm sure you haven't heard this yet, but you look like Edward Norton from American History X in that avatar pic dude.Haven't heard that one. The comparison I usually get lately is Rob Halford.

You know, I've heard that. I don't mind the recorded version and I haven't listened to the DVD in years (I blasted it on the surround sound while painting my bedroom in my old college place)and it was good. Trujillo is nuts, no question. I've been too lazy, but I really ought to rip the audio from the DVD and burn it as my copy of the CD.Now that is a damn fine idea.

Anybody ever get into Infectious Grooves? One of Robert Trujillo's older projects. Think funk, punk, metal and ridiculous humor rolled into one. Great stuff.Damn straight.

Brad Barton

07-11-2007, 03:21 AM

The Unnamed Feeling is one of Metallica's best songs. Period.I'm with you here Stealth...I always thought they should've made this their first single from St. Anger, as it's probably the strongest song on the album.

I really like Sweet Amber too, I actually think the stripped down production helps this song, gives it a jammy sort of feel....kinda bluesy, but with cool guitar tweaks here and there.

All it (or any of them) needed to really make it take off was a damn solo.

Deathstroke

07-11-2007, 05:13 AM

Yeah I listened to Suicidal Tendencies back in the day. Good band, Trujillo is the shit. I hope he actually gets to show more of his skill on the next album.

The Suicidal Tendencies album Lights...Camera...Revolution is just a fantastic album.

I saw them when they opened for Queensryche but they were awful because Mike Muir was bombed out of his mind.

Deathstroke

07-11-2007, 05:15 AM

TheLazy

07-11-2007, 02:01 PM

Honestly? I think Countdown is better than Metallica's Black Album. I loved Black the first time I heard it, but the more I listen to it, the more it sounds like a bunch of mediocre songs performed really, really, really, really ridiculously well. Like, if ever there was a case for presentation over quality, this is it. It's like... a collection of a bunch of mediocre songs, a few really good songs, and Enter Sandman, which is just an amazing piece of metallic beauty. The production and presentation bump up the grade and impact significantly.

You see, I have a theory about Enter Sandman, I believe that it's one of those songs that's quite catchy and everyone likes but no one really loves, they just don't want to speak out against that perception because it is a nice song.
Nothing Else Matters and Of Wolf and Man rule that album.

Also, one thing I must say that amuses me... off all the threads I post in on the internet forums, the heavy metal thread here is by far the most civil, polite and genuinely friendly thread I've had the pleasure of posting in. Who'd a thought that? So much for all those crazy heavy metal guys. :p

Haha, by the second page of {enter generic punk band} thread there'd already be sell out claims:rolleyes:

My cousin and I actually saw Suicidal Tendencies in Bakersfield, Ca many, many moons ago, when Rob was still in the band.
I think it's fitting that my main memory of the whole thing was walking into the club and immediately feeling Rob's low, guttural bass just resonate through my chest....man, he is a monster on the bass, I can't tell you how satisfied I was when he was chosen for the band. They really did knock it out of the park with him.

Does it seem to anyone else like Rob's actually been their bass player for a lot longer than he really has? No disrespect to jason (whom I'm a huge fan of as well), but I actually think Rob may be a better fit for the band than he ever was...

When I heard Rob pull off Cliff's bass solo in Orion, as they were playing Master in it's entirety on the summer tour last year, my jaw just dropped...

I never heard Jason play anything like that.

Yeah Rob rules, now that my memories come back and I haven't got coach lag I remember him covering Orion at the gig at Wembley but he improved some parts and had this amazing tribal sound to his playing. At first it sound like he thought his bass was a drum, but it eventual started to form a rhythm, it was cool.

The Unnamed Feeling is one of Metallica's best songs. Period.

I feel that way about Somekind of Monster;) Its a shame they don't play it live.

ImpulseUCF

07-11-2007, 02:22 PM

You see, I have a theory about Enter Sandman, I believe that it's one of those songs that's quite catchy and everyone likes but no one really loves, they just don't want to speak out against that perception because it is a nice song.That's a nice theory, but I must disagree. I. Flippin'. LOVE. Enter. Sandman. I simply love it. I think it's a perfectly crafted up-tempo, mainstream accessible metal song. It has a catchy intro, building intensity, an explosively catchy riff and chorus, killer guitar solos, a reprieve, and another explosion of intensity, and as calming outtro. It's among their best songs, IMO. It's not the most complex or insightful, but man, is it energetic and catchy!

The first time I blasted it after buying the album I was grinning like an idiot.
Nothing Else Matters and Of Wolf and Man rule that album.Yes, they do own.
I feel that way about Some kind of Monster;) Its a shame they don't play it live.See, that album isn't as dreadful as everyone loves to say. I have a theory about St. Anger. :p I think that because it is so radically different at first glance, a lot of Metallica fans dismissed it without giving it a fair objective shot. It was a bit much to get used to at first but is now among my personal favorite Metallica albums. I wouldn't say among their best, but among my favorites. :)

TheLazy

07-11-2007, 03:15 PM

See, that album isn't as dreadful as everyone loves to say. I have a theory about St. Anger. :p I think that because it is so radically different at first glance, a lot of Metallica fans dismissed it without giving it a fair objective shot. It was a bit much to get used to at first but is now among my personal favorite Metallica albums. I wouldn't say among their best, but among my favorites. :)

I can definitely see in 10 years or so when they re-master the album, it shooting into the B-league's with KEAand Ride.... The production killed that album dead, maybe with some better vocal topics it could have been a B/A league Album, but it definitely has potential.

As for Pantera discussed earlier, I've only heard CFH, VDoP, and FBD, and I'd reate them in that order. Domination has got to be one of the catchiest metal songs I've heard. Display had its moments, but I cannot stand Walk, after the first listen its just the same wooden swing riff for three minutes.

HectorP

07-11-2007, 03:17 PM

Brad Barton

07-11-2007, 03:35 PM

That's a nice theory, but I must disagree. I. Flippin'. LOVE. Enter. Sandman. I simply love it. I think it's a perfectly crafted up-tempo, mainstream accessible metal song. It has a catchy intro, building intensity, an explosively catchy riff and chorus, killer guitar solos, a reprieve, and another explosion of intensity, and as calming outtro. It's among their best songs, IMO. It's not the most complex or insightful, but man, is it energetic and catchy!

The first time I blasted it after buying the album I was grinning like an idiot.Lol, yup, been there. I remember getting really, really stoned with my friends (disclaimer: Drugs are bad for you kids and you should never, ever ever do them.) and listening to My Friend of Misery blasting in my car, I looked like this ---> :D through the entire song. Eyes and everything.

Yes, they do own.
See, that album isn't as dreadful as everyone loves to say. I have a theory about St. Anger. :p I think that because it is so radically different at first glance, a lot of Metallica fans dismissed it without giving it a fair objective shot. It was a bit much to get used to at first but is now among my personal favorite Metallica albums. I wouldn't say among their best, but among my favorites. :)I was just so happy t have a new Metallica album, period, when it came out that I listened to it for about a week straight.

I like the album, but damn it would've been SO much better with some production. Even though I really dig most of the tracks (not crazy about My World) I can't stop myself from thinking that as I listen to it. It could've been so much better.

ImpulseUCF

07-11-2007, 05:04 PM

I like the album, but damn it would've been SO much better with some production. Even though I really dig most of the tracks (not crazy about My World) I can't stop myself from thinking that as I listen to it. It could've been so much better.Oh, I never said it didn't waste a TON of potential. :) Yeah, it could have been PHENOMENAL with some production and editing, but I know the production turned a lot of people off.

stealthwise

07-11-2007, 09:19 PM

I'm with you here Stealth...I always thought they should've made this their first single from St. Anger, as it's probably the strongest song on the album.

I really like Sweet Amber too, I actually think the stripped down production helps this song, gives it a jammy sort of feel....kinda bluesy, but with cool guitar tweaks here and there.

All it (or any of them) needed to really make it take off was a damn solo.

Great stuff throughout most of that album, just a lot of tweaking needed to be made on those songs.

Man In Black

07-12-2007, 12:18 AM

howyadoin

07-12-2007, 01:36 AM

seriously, is there a heavy metal song in existence more played out than enter sandman?Depends on what you define as "metal".

ImpulseUCF

07-12-2007, 05:15 AM

for metallica I much prefer something with more brains and more balls. I thought aint my bitch was a stronger album opener than Sandman.Ah, but the question is did you feel that way before the song was played every 20 minutes on evey rock station in the country? I agree it's been overdone, but I won't listen to it for a while just so I can crank it ever once in a while and really enjoy it.

And I thought Load was a fantastic album. Well, eventually. Once I disassociated it from their other stuff and looked at it objectively...now I love it. Great bluesy rock/barely almost metal album.

TheLazy

07-12-2007, 05:58 AM

Ah, but the question is did you feel that way before the song was played every 20 minutes on evey rock station in the country? I agree it's been overdone, but I won't listen to it for a while just so I can crank it ever once in a while and really enjoy it.

And I thought Load was a fantastic album. Well, eventually. Once I disassociated it from their other stuff and looked at it objectively...now I love it. Great bluesy rock/barely almost metal album.

That's the problem entirely though, nothing exists in isolation. You can't judge Bob Dylan's All Along the Watchtower without hosting the suspicion that Hendrix did a better version, you can't listen to Velvet Revolver without seeing the G'n'R aesthetics, and you can't listen to a popular song without remembering the other 50 times you heard it. It applies to Justice which was deemed as compositional wank by a lot of people, because it came after the greatest album in metal history, or Load which was viewed as a sell out album, because it came after a great mainstream album that had already 'sold out'. Imagine if metallica had brought Load out in 91. Sure they wouldn't be millionaires, but they'd have gotten less flak from the metal audience, but two, and then three bluegrass/rock albums in a row is a big no-no for the fans of the greatest metal band of all time. And look at St. Anger, it was hyped as a return to metal, was hyped as a return to glory, it couldn't live up to the hype and it couldn't be viewed on its contents alone, but rather its history.

It thing existed in isolation the world would be a lot easier place to live in...

ImpulseUCF

07-12-2007, 10:46 AM

True enough, but that history all comes down to perception and personal interpretation. History is only as meaningful as its impact on us, and as far as music goes, that is up to the interpretation of the individual listener.

Load was pretty shocking to me at first, but I was able to eventually step outside my immediate expectations and view it for what it really was and now it's one of my favorite albums.

Yeah, Hendrix's version of All Along the Watchtower is better than Dylan's, but I can be aware of that and still enjoy both. Yeah, I've heard Enter Sandman 200 times, but I can ignore it for a while and listen to it again later down the road and really enjoy myself.

So, these things can be viewed on their contents alone as long as people adjust their perception. "Perception is reality" to a point and all that.

cactusmaac

07-12-2007, 11:05 AM

I was playing And Justice For All for the first time in a long time, and really enjoyed Eye Of The Beholder.

ImpulseUCF

07-12-2007, 02:19 PM

Great song on a great album by a great band.

I was listening to Slayer's Diabolus in Musica this morning on my commute and I realized how much I really enjoyed the added melody missing from the overwhelming majority of the rest of their work. This album has melody, musical complexity, great pacing and all of the expected intensity and sometimes sheer brutality of any Slayer album with the added features of space, letting it breathe on occasion, a tempo someone not hepped up on speed can get into, and catchy songwriting! All the while, this "mainstream" accessible, or their "Black" album, is still so much more brutally intense than most other metal bands at their roughest.

I think they would have benefited from continuing in this direction rather than the methodical regression onto territories long since covered ad infinitum. I already bought Reign in Blood!

HectorP

07-12-2007, 03:27 PM

Depends on what you define as "metal".

Anything from Cream to Cannibal Corpse and beyond including the Carry On Wayward Son song!!!

Does anybody have any favorite Strapping songs? I think it's a little hard since it's more of an album experience than song experience for them, if that makes sense.

Rattlehead

07-12-2007, 03:40 PM

Anything from Cream to Cannibal Corpse and beyond including the Carry On Wayward Son song!!!

Does anybody have any favorite Strapping songs? I think it's a little hard since it's more of an album experience than song experience for them, if that makes sense.

I'd say Wrong Side from The New Black is probably my favorite SYL song. I love that band though, everything they released was just amazing stuff. I also think the album title The New Black was a direct shot at Metallica, a way of Devy saying I can streamline my sound too, and I'll do it better than you did. Of course Devin's far more talented than 99.9% of people in the music business, Metallica included.

DWEarhart

07-12-2007, 03:56 PM

Anything from Cream to Cannibal Corpse and beyond including the Carry On Wayward Son song!!!

Does anybody have any favorite Strapping songs? I think it's a little hard since it's more of an album experience than song experience for them, if that makes sense.

S.Y.L.
Goat
Happy Camper
Critic
Satan's Ice Cream Truck
Pretty much the whole City album.
Centipede
Relentless
Aftermath
Last Minute
Force Fed
Skeksis
We Ride
Possessions
Two Weeks

I need to re-listen to The New Black. I was going through a funk when it came out, and I haven't given it a proper chance.

If you wanna hear Devin take a shot at someone (a whole generation actually), listen to Fake Punk from the Punky Bruster album.

OT: Gene Hoglan will be providing the drum tracks for the upcoming Deathklok album. That's the band from Metalocalypse (I love that show).

HectorP

07-12-2007, 04:00 PM

I'd say Wrong Side from The New Black is probably my favorite SYL song. I love that band though, everything they released was just amazing stuff. I also think the album title The New Black was a direct shot at Metallica, a way of Devy saying I can streamline my sound too, and I'll do it better than you did. Of course Devin's far more talented than 99.9% of people in the music business, Metallica included.

It's a pity that Dev decided to put a stop to the band, although it could be better in the long term. I want to listen to his solo stuff, but don't know where to start. I'm partial to All Hail the New Flesh from City as quintessential Strapping track, although they have good contenders in all of their albums:

Heavy as a Really Heavy Thing: In the Rainy Season, Drizzlehell and Japan.

City: Detox and Spirituality (or easily just the whole album, I rarely listen to just one song from it).

SYL: Aftermath.

Alien: Love?, We Ride and Zen.

The New Black: Monument, Wrong Side and Almost Again.

DWEarhart

07-12-2007, 04:03 PM

It's a pity that Dev decided to put a stop to the band, although it could be better in the long term. I want to listen to his solo stuff, but don't know where to start. I'm partial to All Hail the New Flesh from City as quintessential Strapping track, although they have good contenders in all of their albums:

Heavy as a Really Heavy Thing: In the Rainy Season, Drizzlehell and Japan.

City: Detox and Spirituality (or easily just the whole album, I rarely listen to just one song from it).

SYL: Aftermath.

Alien: Love?, We Ride and Zen.

The New Black: Monument, Wrong Side and Almost Again.

His solo stuff is all over the place. You can pretty much pick up any album, and each has its own identity. Ocean Machine is probably the closest to all-accesible listening as he gets; Terria is sometimes a real challenge, so I'd save that one for later. Ziltoid is excellent and hilarious. Accelerated Evolution is a much more focussed progressive rock album, but really any one is good, and unique.