Action 858 - "Superman and the Legion of Super Heroes" [Archive]

Kid Kyoto

06-22-2007, 09:33 AM

Ok the Legion showing up in JLA and Action is MY LEGION, the one I was introduced to, the one I loved, the one I followed well into the 90s but you know what... I don't care. At all. Not even vaguely tempted.

First off... it isn't my legion, apparently there are already recons like Dawnstar is a lesbian.

Second... that team evolved dramatically during the 80s and 90s becoming quite different from the Grell disco Legion DC is reaching back to. I already know how Karate Kid's story ends, and Dawnstar's and Cosmic Boy's.

So it's just fanboy service, it's a story that demands people know 20-30 year continuity but then ignores it... so what's the point? Tell a good story, stop nostalgia for the writer's childhood.

Arg.

OK rant over.

Tom

06-22-2007, 09:49 AM

First off... it isn't my legion, apparently there are already recons like Dawnstar is a lesbian.
Where did you hear that one?

Kid Kyoto

06-22-2007, 09:55 AM

A review of lightning saga. If it's wrong oh well. I wasn't excited to begin with. Like I said it's the circa 1980 versions of characters whose story lasted till 1994.

SuperSince92

06-22-2007, 12:07 PM

Where did you hear that one?

During 'The Lightning Saga' when they were searching for Dawnstar, her ring was found left with a woman on Thanagar. It implied the woman was Dawnstar's lover.

As for this upcoming Action arc, count me in as being excited as well. I LOVED this version of the Legion. It was my first interaction with them in comics and I liked it so much, if this were the Legion in the monthly, I'd add that to my pull-list in a heartbeat.

Sean Whitmore

06-22-2007, 12:27 PM

During 'The Lightning Saga' when they were searching for Dawnstar, her ring was found left with a woman on Thanagar. It implied the woman was Dawnstar's lover.

Maybe I'm not up on my Legion history, but this exchange seems to suggest the opposite:

Dawnstar: "Drake...goodbye, my love."

Drake: "I'm here, Dawny. I love you, too."

SEAN

glennsim

06-22-2007, 04:03 PM

So it's just fanboy service, it's a story that demands people know 20-30 year continuity but then ignores it...

Just to play Devil's Advocate - why does the story demand people know 20-30 year continuity? The same story could have been told with totally new characters. The fact that the characters resemble characters published a long time ago is just a bonus.

In other words, why couldn't you just enjoy the story if you'd never heard of the Legion of Super-Heroes?

Kid Kyoto

06-22-2007, 08:59 PM

Just to play Devil's Advocate - why does the story demand people know 20-30 year continuity? The same story could have been told with totally new characters. The fact that the characters resemble characters published a long time ago is just a bonus.

In other words, why couldn't you just enjoy the story if you'd never heard of the Legion of Super-Heroes?

Good question. My best answer is because I have. So seeing them in sort-of kind their 70s/early 80s incarnations is too distracting. I think if they'd shown up as ALL NEWER versions of themselves it would actually be less distracting. Maybe.

I disliked the 1994 and 2004 reboots for the same general reason. Characters would show up with a wink and a nod (HERE'S THE ALL-NEW SHADOW LASS!) but then... they weren't quite the same character. Be neither making new characters nor really brining back old ones, who is pleased?

So something like 'Karate Kid' becomes just a label that can be slapped on any number of martial artist characters who resemble each other but aren't the same. The name loses all value.

It's kind of esoteric but that's why, despite treasuring my back issues of the Legion I have no interest in the 2004 reboot or this 2007 return.

jadrax

06-23-2007, 09:09 AM

So something like 'Karate Kid' becomes just a label that can be slapped on any number of martial artist characters who resemble each other but aren't the same. The name loses all value.

You just described every popular character in existence. (Both in and outside comics.)

paulski

06-25-2007, 10:10 PM

Now this has me excited. Johns was talking about this coming up in Action this fall. More of the Legion of Super Heroes interacting with Superman, and it is the version of the Legion that was just in the JLA/JSA crossover. Not the boring Waid version. I can't wait to see what Johns has planed for this story, and the kicker is it is drawn by Gary Frank.
That's the first Gary Frank arc, huh? Sounds friggin' good to me. :D

Looks like I picked a good time to jump on the book.

Incidentally, anyone know when the last 3 Adam Kubert issues are supposed to hit? :confused:

(Never mind, looks like #851 and, later, Annual #11. Goddamn slackass Kubert... :( )

PretenderNX01

06-29-2007, 04:14 AM

During 'The Lightning Saga' when they were searching for Dawnstar, her ring was found left with a woman on Thanagar. It implied the woman was Dawnstar's lover.

Being gay I should have better gaydar than I know I do, but I didn't feel at all it was implied that Dawnstar was a lesbian. Dawnstar wasn't even living as Dawnstar anyhow, all of them had new identities and their memories blocked.

But I just saw it as her being in some sort of temple with Hawk-nuns. I guess the reviewer can infer any slash-fiction they want out of her situation but unless Metlzer of Johns explicitly stated she was a lesbian. I don't think she was.

As for the Legion or Legions, I think there building to them all being from futures of the 52 Earths. So they all exist.

JoeK32880

06-29-2007, 04:27 AM

I didn't read any lesbianess into Dawnstar during Lightning Saga. I don't know, maybe I missed it completely, or maybe I just know the character so well I just didn't even consider any such subtext as it would have nothing to do with the characetr I know anyway.

Mon-el

07-15-2007, 07:15 AM

http://www.newsarama.com/dcnew/Oct07/AC_Cv858_solicit.jpg

ACTION COMICS #858
Written by Geoff Johns
Art by Gary Frank & Jonathan Sibal
Cover by Frank
Welcome superstar Gary Frank as he kicks off his run as the new monthly artist on ACTION COMICS with the extra-length first chapter of “Superman and the Legion of Super-Heroes”! Spinning from “The Lightning Saga,” the original Legion of Super-Heroes returns! When he was a boy, Clark Kent was isolated and alone until he met this teen team from the 31st Century. Today, it’s been years since Superman saw his childhood friends. Why haven’t they returned to visit him? What’s become of the symbol of Superman in the future? And just why is the future so dangerous for Superman? They warned him away, but now he’s determined to help his friends — even if it means his life!
On sale October 31 • 40 pg, FC, $3.50 US

I'm so looking forward to Halloween this year!

Gingold

07-15-2007, 12:02 PM

http://www.newsarama.com/dcnew/Oct07/AC_Cv858_solicit.jpg

Superman looks like he's on drugs.

Denny Colt

07-15-2007, 08:01 PM

I'm delighted to see the return of the "original" (or original-like) Legion. I was only ever a sporadic Legion reader in the '70's (before we had any comic shops in my area and thus I had to read what I could get from the newstands), but enjoy seeing them again. I picked up the Showcase edition and have been reading with to my son. We're going to try to track down some 70's back-issues at an upcoming con. That being said, when I started getting back into comics a couple of years ago, it was the Waid Legion that caught my interest, and my son & I have really enjoyed it. I checked out the 90's version in TPB but it didn't do much for me. However, I know some people really love that version. I'm glad that we can all have our favourite versions and I'm looking forward to when we get to read "the Legion of 3 Worlds" story.

Finally, one thing that does bug me, though, by virtue of the fact that none of the legion stories have actually happened yet, we can pop into their continuity at any given moment. It seems that back in the 50's and 60's Superboy and Supergirl only every transported exactly 1000 years into the future (eg. 1962 - 2962). Some people seem to forget that we can enjoy a story with the Legion of ANY era with the CURRENT version of our favourite 21st century heroes. That's the beauty of time travel stories!

Infra-Man

07-15-2007, 08:49 PM

Looks promising. How's Gary Frank with schedules? Can he keep things going monthly, or even month-and-a-halfly (every six weeks)?

KAL-EL122881

07-16-2007, 10:44 AM

Grey Frank Drawing THE REAL SUPERMAN I am on board for this. It is a great time to be a Superman Fan.

Shellhead

07-16-2007, 11:28 AM

Superman looks like he's on drugs.

And he's using mascara.

Denny Colt

07-16-2007, 08:37 PM

And he's using mascara.

Ahhh, that's how he does it... I knew that there had to be more to his disguise than simply adding glasses and combing back the curl!

PatrickG

07-17-2007, 04:41 AM

Dawnstar's assumed identity under Saturn Girl and Brainiac 5's brainwashing was a lesbian. But they made Karate Kid a super-villain for his cover so I don't think that's much indication.

So a Legionnaire being potentially bi or brainwashed into another sexual orientation for a mission is no big deal and -- it's perfectly in character for the Legion brainwash its members into other sexual orientations for a covert operation. It actually fits in pretty well with a lot of rather odd things the Legion has done before.

As for Karate Kid, this story acknowledges that he did die and states that he was resurrected.

Essentially, everything through Crisis is in continuity for this team. Almost nothing after Crisis is and they've has a few years of off-panel adventures.

Wildfire is in Red Tornado's reconstructed body but that appears to be a development that could have taken place since the team's involvement in COIE. Karate Kid's resurrection is established as having taken place off-panel post-COIE. Starboy being a schizophrenic is new but it doesn't contradict any established stories since this story sets forth the idea that 31st century medicine means that schizophrenics have no symptoms and that a combination of stress and being off his meds is what aggravated Thom's condition.

I mean, I don't see how it invalidates any past stories if Thom never showed any symptoms of mental illness until he lost access to 31st century medicine for several years of universe and time hopping.

ThunderKat

07-18-2007, 07:35 AM

so is richard donner off action?

Pink Bat Max

07-20-2007, 09:00 PM

Being gay I should have better gaydar than I know I do, but I didn't feel at all it was implied that Dawnstar was a lesbian.

My gaydar didn't pink either. I think it'd be cool if she /was/ a lesbain, but honestly, it didn't even occur to me that this was implied. I think whoever came up with this was realllllly reaching.

Mulett

10-12-2007, 06:46 AM

I'm really looking forward to this. Still my favourite Legion (although a little bit 'tweaked' by the sounds of things) and it will be interesting to see how this Legion fits into post-Infinite Crisis continuity.

The recent issue of Supergirl was interesting, as it threw up quite a few questions about the Legion appearing in Supergirl and the Legion of Superheroes, and the Legion who appeared in the recent JLA/JSA 'Lightning Saga' story.

Which earth does which Legion belong too?

Christopher Cross Is God

10-12-2007, 07:28 AM

Ah, Action Comics will start having an artist I can tolerate.

I couldn't stand Kubert's art on this book, nor the guy who did the Bizarro arc.

Ironman2978

10-17-2007, 05:41 PM

I've been getting ready for this saga. I saw all of the legions appearances in superman the animated series, the legion of superheroes animated series and advernture comics issue number # 247 ( http://supermanthrutheages.com/tales2/lsh/)

Tazirai

10-20-2007, 08:38 AM

Not a big superman reader. But this does have me itching.

HotRod_Tim

10-21-2007, 09:06 AM

I've never been big on the Legion, I mean, I know who they are, what they do and such, but they've never caught my interest before. Until now.

I'm psyched for Johns' and Frank's upcoming Supes arc with the Legion, I can't wait to see what direction it all goes in and whats in store for this big Legion anniversary.

Ironman2978

10-25-2007, 07:54 AM

Silver Age Legion is the best.

aukevin

10-26-2007, 11:37 AM

It's almost here, I've very excited!

onelasthero

10-26-2007, 01:29 PM

after the "crisis" I lost interest in Superman. The stories were boring at best. And, I feel they didn't wrap up enough arcs. The whole superman-zod child thing was terrible. I'm hoping this brings me back on board.

Pyro

10-31-2007, 02:50 PM

I was about to buy it, then I noticed that it was $3.50, seemingly without good reason. Does anyone know why the price was increased? I'm not so sure I'll want to support it if it's just due to inflation.

KRAKABOOM!

10-31-2007, 03:03 PM

Pyro

10-31-2007, 03:08 PM

the issue is 40 pgs.
Thanks. I didn't notice the page increase... maybe I'll reconsider picking it up.

mosdef

10-31-2007, 04:43 PM

Man that was good! This is the 1st time that I've read a story with the Legion. I'm still kicking myself for not getting the Lighten Saga. I'm not a fan of JSA and I didn't like the 1st arc of the JLA so I didn't get that story. I'm really upset with myself for missing out.

But I'm glad that I got this.

A red sun in earth’s 31st c?? That's nuts. Brainy should've warned Supes about that before he transported him to the future. This may not be a big deal, but I like how the Legion calls Supes Kal, making it personal and showing how close they all were. Like I said, I've never read an issue of the Legions or the Lighten Saga so I don't know if that's the norm but that was cool.

stingerman

10-31-2007, 10:24 PM

Great issue!

trickster

11-01-2007, 03:41 AM

One of the few Superman stories that looks exciting. Along with Camelot Falls.

zhivago

11-01-2007, 08:43 AM

Just read it. Anyone who even remotely likes LOSH, Superman or comics has to read this. A must have. With Green Lantern and this I see all those comics that got me hooked up to this medium a long time ago. A great setup up story and the Superman - Brainy + flashback scenes. People read this.

hyperion83

11-01-2007, 08:47 AM

I thought it was really good. I'm a big fan of LSH and especially the old Legion and this was a really good and exciting start on the arc. Johns writing is good and the art I thought was excellent. This is definitly a story arc I'm going to continue reading.

MaxofSteel

11-01-2007, 12:56 PM

This arc's off to a great start so far. Here's hoping it doesn't suffer from any more art-related delays. I have hope in Gary Frank though.

Bored at 3:00AM

11-01-2007, 01:13 PM

The uncanny resemblance to Christopher Reeve is gonna take a little getting used to. The detail of Frank's work is very nice. A big change from Kubert and Bizzaro World.

aukevin

11-01-2007, 02:12 PM

Great issue.

One thing I found interesting in the comic was in Brainy's conversavtion with Superman in the present time. Brainy said that their mission in the Lightning Saga was unsuccessful. This took me by surprise because at the end of the Lightning Saga, Brainy said that the outcome was unexpected when Wally showed back up, but they got who they wanted. So what happened that it was unsuccessful? I hope we get answers in this arc of what that actual mission was.

mosdef

11-01-2007, 05:24 PM

Are these the same Legion as the ones that Supergirl teams with?

ultramandingo

11-01-2007, 06:38 PM

........needs more mater eater lad

Zero Hunter

11-01-2007, 08:32 PM

Are these the same Legion as the ones that Supergirl teams with?

No. The Legion team that Supergirl was member of is a different version. They are basically the 3rd version of the Legion. The ones in this issue are more based on the original version with some slight tweaks here and there.

Will.S

11-02-2007, 10:03 PM

This was a really good start to the arc.

Some interesting yet funny parody to Superman's origin, Daily Planet fun, seeing Clark when he was younger, and finally the Legion in their older glory. I dig the new designs on the ones we've seen so far and Gary Frank & Dave McCaig really hit it out of the park although the Chris Reeve looking Superman does look odd every once and a while since the resemblance is so strong in some panels while in others it's regular Superman faces.

Good stuff from Geoff Johns and a new beginning of sorts, can't wait for the next issue already.

Froggy

11-02-2007, 11:31 PM

he red sun thing was odd but other than that dope start. I always liked the legion in superman's history for htis reason

Duy

11-03-2007, 12:46 AM

Gary Frank's Superman is awesome.

eggie

11-03-2007, 08:38 AM

Gary Frank's Superman is awesome.

Heck yeah it does! He draws the perfect Supes in my opinion...not some muscle bound meat head, but a guy with a good physique. I hope this is the start of a long, successful run for Mr. Frank on Action Comics.

Has DC announced when the AC annual containing the last part of the Johns/Donner/Kubert story is being released?

MaxofSteel

11-03-2007, 09:21 AM

Gary Frank's Superman is awesome.

When I saw his work in Supreme Power, I remember saying to myself, "Man, this guy would be great on a Superman book."

Lo and behold, it happened! :D

DonC

11-03-2007, 09:32 AM

How old is Jimmy Olsen? It seems like it varies from issue to issue. And why was Perry White acting like he'd never seen Clark Kent before?

HotRod_Tim

11-03-2007, 01:08 PM

Damn, I've been waiting for this for a while now. I'm not a big Superman or Legion fan by any means, but something has had me eagerly awaiting this story, and after finally picking it up and having a chance to read it, well, it was worth the wait. Not only was Gary Frank's art spectacular by every definition, Geoff Johns' writing was spot-on. I loved every moment of this ish. From Clark's flashback to when he was a kid and met the legion, to the present with Supes' battle with the Brainiac bot to the future where Kal suffers a bullet wound straight threw the hand!!!! Frank's renditions of the 3 Legionnaires was incredible. His Colossal Boy and Dawnstar looked fan-bloody-tastic. I can't wait to see what he does with others like the big 3 of the Legion Saturn Girl, Cosmic Boy and Lightning Lad.

Well, after reading part 1 of this story, I will definitely be coming back for more next month.

Sean Whitmore

11-04-2007, 01:42 AM

Bored at 3:00AM

11-04-2007, 02:51 AM

I loved most of this issue. The Silver Age Legion, nice art, crazy future with a red sun...good stuff. I'm looking forward to see where it's all going.

I say "most" because of how much I hated the Daily Planet scene.

I accept not having Byrne's exact version of Clark, but there's a long way between that and a simpering, scorned schmuck. And Johns (like Waid before him) has apparently decided to bypass every inch of that distance.

I can dig that putting a bit of a wall between Clark and the people around him helps his whole loneliness shtick. But grown men laughing at him while he runs for the elevator? Perry barely taking notice of him? Not having made a friend in ten years? Jesus, is this Metropolis or is it Hell?

SEAN

While I prefer the mild-mannered dork Clark to yuppie jock Clark, I agree they're hitting it too hard here. Perry White has been working with Clark far too long to still be lecturing him about being more assertive. I liked Loeb's idea that Perry was too good a reporter to not know that Clark & Supes were the same guy, but kept it to himself. I don't much care for idiot blowhard Perry. He's the EIC of the world's foremost newspaper, he should act like it.

DonC

11-04-2007, 09:24 AM

I liked Loeb's idea that Perry was too good a reporter to not know that Clark & Supes were the same guy, but kept it to himself.

That's an idea I like. As you and Sean pointed out, this Perry was kind of a jerk. It was like they tried to take the gruff, but fair, Perry from the Donner movies and just went too far with it.

edhopper

11-05-2007, 07:12 AM

I enjoyed the issue but I'm a bit confused here. Is this the current Superman, married to Lois Lane? Perry shouldn't be talking to him about getting friends at the paper when he's married to the star reporter. Or is this a Silver Age story.
I thought they retconed Superboy away in Crisis on Infinite Earths and Byrne made him a Pocket Universe thing. Or it was Superboy Prime or something. Anyway has this issue retconed the whole thing again.
Keeping up with whatever is current continuity is close to impossible and it would be nice if the editors or writers gave us a clue about where things stand.

Bored at 3:00AM

11-05-2007, 09:41 AM

This is a New Earth. The history is new. Superboy, in some form or another, is back in continuity. Infinite Crisis made three very notable restorations duing the latest continuity reshuffle and Superboy & The Legion of the Super-Heroes was one of the old puzzle peices that got put back in.

The problem is that this should have been published within the first year of the relaunch, instead of the end of the second.

DonC

11-05-2007, 09:49 AM

Keeping up with whatever is current continuity is close to impossible and it would be nice if the editors or writers gave us a clue about where things stand.

Like I said in another thread, Infinite Crisis was a reboot of Superman. Nothing before it is canon anymore until someone comes out and says it's canon.

edhopper

11-05-2007, 11:30 AM

I've read most of the Superman books since Inf Crisis, and I don't recall this. Oh well.
Is Clark still married to Lois? He seemed to be in the last few story lines.
And when did he become Clark the loser with only Jimmy as his friend?
Is there any continuity left?

Spiffy

11-05-2007, 02:04 PM

As for the Legion or Legions, I think there building to them all being from futures of the 52 Earths. So they all exist.
Still not sure how. I mean Superman and Supergirl are from the same version of Earth, as far as we know. And yet now they both have their "own" future Legions, and members of both Legions have visited the present in some capacity and recognized them. My head hurts from thinking of it all.

dreyga2000

11-05-2007, 02:43 PM

Perry shouldn't be talking to him about getting friends at the paper when he's married to the star reporter.

Is Clark still married to Lois?

Yea

And when did he become Clark the loser with only Jimmy as his friend?

It thought it's always been like that other than Perry, Lois, and Jimmy who else did Clark talk to at the Planet?? There was that one black guy, I think married to Lois's sister, but he's been missing from panels for years so he doesn't count

It's well-know aspect of the Superman mythos that Clark Kent is a "nerd"

Is there any continuity left?

Everything is pretty much the same as it always was except for...

-When Clark was a kid he used his super powers to help people but thanks to his super speed no one really saw him and he became an urban legend (basically he was Superboy but with out the costume)
-Clark has had Krypto since he was a boy
-Clark was freinds with the Legion as a child

Sean Whitmore

11-05-2007, 02:57 PM

Everything is pretty much the same as it always was except for...

-When Clark was a kid he used his super powers to help people but thanks to his super speed no one really saw him and he became an urban legend (basically he was Superboy but with out the costume)
-Clark has had Krypto since he was a boy
-Clark was freinds with the Legion as a child

And, according to this issue, at least:

-Clark is treated like a goofy bastard by his peers instead of receiving, if not friendship, at least the respect a veteran newsman and Pulitzer Prize winner is due.

SEAN

Will.S

11-05-2007, 03:12 PM

And, according to this issue, at least:

-Clark is treated like a goofy bastard by his peers instead of receiving, if not friendship, at least the respect a veteran newsman and Pulitzer Prize winner is due.

SEAN
I think there's sort of 2 reasons for this.

Geoff Johns is making this sort of like a OYL'ish issue as far as a "great starting point for new readers" goes since Gary Frank is on board as the ongoing artist. The second reason is probably because the Donner teaming and the inner fan of Donner is still in him so he wanted to make it like readers who've seen the movies could dive right in and notice that it's almost the same especially with the Chris Reeve looking Supes/Clark.

Granted, given the way Kurt Busiek and Geoff wrote Superman/Clark during OYL and beyond, this isn't really the Clark we see here since in those past issues he was quite accepted, was hanging out with Lois and Perry acted like he actually knew him for all those years.

Sean Whitmore

11-05-2007, 03:18 PM

Geoff Johns is making this sort of like a OYL'ish issue as far as a "great starting point for new readers" goes since Gary Frank is on board as the ongoing artist.

Oh, I get that. And my complaint doesn't come from a continuity place, that this doesn't mesh with what happened a few months ago. My complaint is that Johns is pushing the nerdy Clark thing too far, for any readers, new or old.

Modeling comic Clark after Chris Reeve's take is problematic, because performance played a large part in what made that successful. Both Reeve's good-natured, "nothing really offends me, I'm actually secretly amused by all this" attitude, and the rather zany atmosphere of the movie Planet, which was reminiscent of old screwball comedies. In print, it's hard to dump on Clark without it coming off as blatant abuse, as in Birthright.

SEAN

Will.S

11-05-2007, 03:28 PM

Oh, I get that. And my complaint doesn't come from a continuity place, that this doesn't mesh with what happened a few months ago. My complaint is that Johns is pushing the nerdy Clark thing too far, for any readers, new or old.

Modeling comic Clark after Chris Reeve's take is problematic, because performance played a large part in what made that successful. Both Reeve's good-natured, "nothing really offends me, I'm actually secretly amused by all this" attitude, and the rather zany atmosphere of the movie Planet, which was reminiscent of old screwball comedies. In print, it's hard to dump on Clark without it coming off as blatant abuse, as in Birthright.

SEAN
Yeah I get that as well, I wouldn't disagree with that either.

DonC

11-05-2007, 05:36 PM

It thought it's always been like that other than Perry, Lois, and Jimmy who else did Clark talk to at the Planet?? There was that one black guy, I think married to Lois's sister, but he's been missing from panels for years so he doesn't count

It's well-know aspect of the Superman mythos that Clark Kent is a "nerd"

Like Sean said, they're just going way over the top with this. Aside from the fact that it is jarring to long-time readers, it's also off-putting.

Everything is pretty much the same as it always was except for...

-When Clark was a kid he used his super powers to help people but thanks to his super speed no one really saw him and he became an urban legend (basically he was Superboy but with out the costume)
-Clark has had Krypto since he was a boy
-Clark was freinds with the Legion as a child

And the entire post-Crisis history of Krypton has been pitched. As, apparently, has the whole solar battery aspect of Superman's powers. His powers basically shut off when exposed to a red sun. In the "Third Kryptonian" story Kryptonian space explorers got their powers immediately when exposed to a yellow sun generator. So Kryptonian powers are now like a light switch; yellow sun = on, red sun = off.

And, as stated, Krypton was exploring space. So I imagine Kal-El's last moments on Krypton now went something like this:

Jor-El: Lara, I tell you, this planet will explode in 30 days, if not sooner. We must place Kal-El in this experimental rocket ship I've built. We'll die, but he'll live.

Lara: Why can't we use one of those interstellar starships that have been sitting in orbit for, like, the last hundred years?

Jor-El: The what in the what?!?

Lara: Oh, for the love of Rao, this is why my mother said I should have married that accountant, Har-Vey. He probably knows how to satisify a woman, too.

Jor-El: Well, maybe if you didn't just lie there.

Lara: Oh, shut up. I'm going to our gardner's. If I'm going out, I'm going out with a bang.

Sean Whitmore

11-05-2007, 05:42 PM

As, apparently, has the whole solar battery aspect of Superman's powers. His powers basically shut off when exposed to a red sun.

That's nothing new, though.

I'm not science guy, so I don't know what makes sense and what doesn't. But as far back as I can remember, whenever a bad guy has whipped out red solar energy, Superman's powers have amscrayed in a hurry. Including the Timmverse.

SEAN

ThunderKat

11-08-2007, 06:29 PM

i really liked this issue too, i can understand the regular "intro for the 1st time" to characters older then my dad :)

a red sun story was done awhile back in joe kelly - pasqal ferrys fantastic run, does anyone remember that?

i'd love to see a few clark kent stories like the ones joe kelly did on AC... there was one where he investigated the disappearance of a local street stall vender, that was fantastic.

or does no one like clark kent?? is that why you barely see him for no more then 2-3 pages recently??

Sean Whitmore

11-08-2007, 08:13 PM

a red sun story was done awhile back in joe kelly - pasqal ferrys fantastic run, does anyone remember that?

Yup, with Kanjar Ro. A really good issue out of an overall very good run.

(I have to use the qualifier "overall" because of a few notable missteps)

i'd love to see a few clark kent stories like the ones joe kelly did on AC... there was one where he investigated the disappearance of a local street stall vender, that was fantastic.

or does no one like clark kent?? is that why you barely see him for no more then 2-3 pages recently??

This is one of the reasons I worry about Clark pushing the "mild manners" too much. I liked him being a character in his own right. His entire personality doesn't have to be a disguise, just the nerdy part.

SEAN

Duy

11-08-2007, 08:46 PM

Clark always works best when he's pushed as a hard-boiled reported, like in the Fleischer cartoons, but a touch of mild mannerism is good.

That having been said, I wouldn't change the All-Star version for anything, because Grant and Frank are getting a few laughs out of me with their Clark.

DonC

11-09-2007, 09:14 AM

That's nothing new, though.

I'm not science guy, so I don't know what makes sense and what doesn't. But as far back as I can remember, whenever a bad guy has whipped out red solar energy, Superman's powers have amscrayed in a hurry. Including the Timmverse.

SEAN

I could have sworn that in the pre-IC Superman comics, his powers lasted for a little while under a red sun. Superman's body was in essence a solar battery, storing energy for when he needed it. Under a yellow sun his body replenished the energy he used. When he "died" fighting Doomsday, all he had really done was expended all the stored-up energy inside himself. Under a red sun he should still have powers, they just aren't replenished. Unless, like I said, they changed the solar battery aspect of Superman's powers.

I realize arguing comic book science is useless. The rules are what the writers want them to be, but this just seems like common sense to me.

KAL-EL122881

11-09-2007, 08:58 PM

Great Issue Gray Frank Art OMG:eek: I Can't wait for the rest of this arc Superman & The Legion:D

J.R.

11-11-2007, 01:28 PM

Good issue. I figured I wouldn't enjoy it due to the fact that I'm not a big LSH reader, but it was surprisingly enjoyable.

nuclearman

11-11-2007, 10:01 PM

Good issue. I figured I wouldn't enjoy it due to the fact that I'm not a big LSH reader, but it was surprisingly enjoyable.

yeah I'm with you JR not an overly big fan of the Legion but this was good ... I thought the art was incredible ... last action arc appeared to be a homage to the golden age superman .. this one most definitely christopher reeve ..can't wait for the next issue !!

PretenderNX01

11-12-2007, 05:24 AM

I could have sworn that in the pre-IC Superman comics, his powers lasted for a little while under a red sun. Superman's body was in essence a solar battery, storing energy for when he needed it. Under a yellow sun his body replenished the energy he used. When he "died" fighting Doomsday, all he had really done was expended all the stored-up energy inside himself. Under a red sun he should still have powers, they just aren't replenished. Unless, like I said, they changed the solar battery aspect of Superman's powers.

I realize arguing comic book science is useless. The rules are what the writers want them to be, but this just seems like common sense to me.

As I recall there was an explanation that red sun energy "eats" the yellow energy his body stores.

His body is like a solar battery in that it stores energy so in the absence of any sun he still has his power. But in the presence of a red sun, the red sunlight depletes his body and fills his cells with useless red sun energy making him weak.

Carter Hall

11-14-2007, 09:27 PM

Tell a good story, stop nostalgia from the writer's childhood.

Agreed. It seems too many comics are doing that these days, and not giving readers enough info on what they're referencing. No footnotes or characters recalling the histories or anything. It'd be nice if they did that, since that's something comics used to be GREAT at. It makes the whole universe more appealing, too.

Mon-el

11-17-2007, 05:26 PM

I have to admit I haven't read the issue yet. I have been having problems getting away to get to a comic shop the past 4-5 months. Even though I have read about 8 pages of it. I'm still dying to read it even though it is sold out.

I just wanted to say that's a beautiful looking Shadow Lass by Gary Frank.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v301/Mon-el/shadowlass.jpg

AllisterH

11-17-2007, 06:17 PM

How can this Clark be married to Lois?

Reason why I ask is because Lois was never attracted to the mild-mannered Clark and this Clark is even worse.

I mean, take the original "Lois falls in love with Clark storyline" which is the GA Superman who died in Infinite Crisis. She didn't respect her working partner Clark at the Star _UNTIL_ there was an issue where Clark basically had ALWAYS been Clark Kent and Superman was a separate person.

Clark basically stepped up his game and Lois fell in love with THAT Clark. That's the essential point of the Lois-Clark-Superman triangle. Say what you will about Byrne's Superman, but at least I can see Lois falling in love with Clark but this one?

He's worse than the GA clark kent at the star.

ibrakeforchinwe

11-22-2007, 03:01 PM

I wonder if theyre going to talk about Saturn Girl and Lightning Lads kids or any other kids the Legionnaires have?

This issue and 859 were awesome.

NotSuper

11-22-2007, 04:12 PM

How can this Clark be married to Lois?

Reason why I ask is because Lois was never attracted to the mild-mannered Clark and this Clark is even worse.
It's kind irrelevant as to what past versions of Lois Lane have been attracted to. The New Earth Lois Lane could have an entirely different reason for marrying Clark. Maybe she saw Superman inside on him even though he acted mild-mannered. Or maybe opposites attract.

Tazirai

11-23-2007, 11:01 AM

While I prefer the mild-mannered dork Clark to yuppie jock Clark, I agree they're hitting it too hard here. Perry White has been working with Clark far too long to still be lecturing him about being more assertive. I liked Loeb's idea that Perry was too good a reporter to not know that Clark & Supes were the same guy, but kept it to himself. I don't much care for idiot blowhard Perry. He's the EIC of the world's foremost newspaper, he should act like it.

great points.. hopefulyl this will change in upcoming arcs.

Jack Tango

11-23-2007, 11:37 AM

As I recall there was an explanation that red sun energy "eats" the yellow energy his body stores.

His body is like a solar battery in that it stores energy so in the absence of any sun he still has his power. But in the presence of a red sun, the red sunlight depletes his body and fills his cells with useless red sun energy making him weak.

IIRC, Busiek recently explained that red solar energy blocks access to Superman's powers. Which is why, once removed, his powers are back immediately.

Personally, I like the solar battery concept better. But whatever. I don't write the books, I just read 'em.

kcekada

11-25-2007, 05:27 PM

I'm enjoying this story greatly, and while Gary Frank is doing a pretty good job (his harsher style isn't my cuppa, but it works for this storyline), most of the Legion costumes look awful.

I do like what he did with Wildfire, and Dawnstar isn't bad. Can't say the same for Shrinking Vi and especially Ultra Boy (worst update ever).

kcekada

11-25-2007, 05:31 PM

As for Karate Kid, this story acknowledges that he did die and states that he was resurrected.

His death was a mistake -- even though the story in which he died was brillaint. Keith Giffen hated the character, and pushed to have him killed.

I'm glad he was resurrected.

Tazirai

11-25-2007, 10:22 PM

His death was a mistake -- even though the story in which he died was brillaint. Keith Giffen hated the character, and pushed to have him killed.

I'm glad he was resurrected.

Some writers instead of sending the character they hate to a nice corner of the universe.. Instead liek to kill things.

Sean Whitmore

11-25-2007, 10:26 PM

His death was a mistake -- even though the story in which he died was brillaint. Keith Giffen hated the character, and pushed to have him killed.

I have no idea whether or not that's true, but if it is, how ironic.

SEAN

Froggy

11-25-2007, 11:19 PM

I have no idea whether or not that's true, but if it is, how ironic.

SEAN I know right? second character he hated becomes popular

Mon-el

11-26-2007, 06:32 AM

I have no idea whether or not that's true, but if it is, how ironic.

SEAN

It is true, and kcekada was right the story was brilliant.

From Keith Giffen:
2) Karate Kid was, and still is, a character I despise. As a matter of fact, way back when, the only reason I stayed on the Legion when it went Baxter was because Paul promised I could kill him. I am so hoping history will repeat itself

It's finally being collected into Tpb on December 19th.

THE LEGION OF SUPER-HEROES: AN EYE FOR AN EYE TP

I too am glad he was resurrected, but wished it was something that I was reading about other than "Countdown".

legionnaire

01-30-2008, 10:05 PM

As I recall there was an explanation that red sun energy "eats" the yellow energy his body stores. The red sunlight depletes his body and fills his cells with useless red sun energy making him weak.

So like I said in another thread, just get Color Kid (or is it Queen .. I think Geoff has changed the gender) to change the red sun to yellow.

:)

Tazirai

01-30-2008, 10:31 PM

So like I said in another thread, just get Color Kid (or is it Queen .. I think Geoff has changed the gender) to change the red sun to yellow.

:)

Just read 861 and we find out who actually changed the sun... It made so much sense to.

CMBMOOL

01-31-2008, 09:54 AM

I must admit that even though I'm not a big Legion fan, this has become an entertaining arc to read about. :o

MartianManhunter

02-28-2008, 06:32 PM

I haven't read comics for 15 years......This is this issue that brought me back in!!

legionnaire

02-28-2008, 09:19 PM

Waid's Legion boring? Surely you jest. It is because of Waid's Legion that I like Legion.

I gotta disagree with you there. Firstly I have to say I have nothing against Mark Waid, he's an okay guy and all. But his stories have just not recaptured the magic that long time legion fans grew up with. The legion is not like another super-hero group .. there's a special niftiness to its concept. Under Waid, the group was just like any other generic teenage band.

I was part of Interlac, the long-time legion APA, for about 10 years in the 70s and 80s .. it was the golden era when members included fanboys such as Waid, the Bierbaums, Mike Flynn, Harry Broertjes, Colleen Doran, even Paul Levitz and Shooter themselves .. and every year people like Waid and the Bierbaums would contribute their fan fiction .. stories about how they thought the legion should be. There was a certain quaintness about it all, and when these guys got their writing break and eventually landed the legion gig, hopes were that the stories would be sculptured in the good old traditional style that brought the legion its mass appeal.

I don't think the Bierbaums succeeded too much in this regard, although some of their collaborations with Giffen were excellent; but for me, Waid has been a big letdown. I said in another thread he's like a modern-day Roy Thomas; prolific but you'd be hard-pressed to think of any really significant storyline he's done.

Binker

02-29-2008, 08:07 PM

Hey guys. I guess no one here knows this: I write reviews for comics and I share them on only 1-2 boards. I'm going to expand that, so here is my review to Action #862.

by Nathaniel Ruff (aka Binker on the forums)

ACTION COMICS #862

Written by Geoff Johns
Art by Gary Frank & Jonathan Sibal
Cover by Frank Variant
Variant cover by Mike Grell
Edited by Matt Idelson

PLOT:
The penultimate chapter of "Superman and the Legion of Super-Heroes!" Crushed by the Justice League of 3008 A.D., Superman and the Legion uncover the horrific secret behind the conspiracy against the Man of Steel. But with the League of Legion Rejects a step ahead of Superman's every move, who can finally turn the tide of the battle?

REVIEW:
Last issue existed as a set up to the final two issues: #862 & 863. It was also filled with suspenseful teases, along with the build up from the JLE's actions, as well as insight on some of the JLE's members. A war is about to start because of the JLE, and it's up to Superman and the LoSH to stop it and the JLE. And the most important thing for that to happen is to prove to world that who and what Superman is the truth. How that will happen, I don't know. But for now, here is #862.

Whereas #861 was a set issue for the final two parts of the story, #862 is part one of the finale to end at #863. In this issue, the fight starts with what's left of the Legion, with help of the Substitute Heroes, versus the Justice League of Earth, with the fight between Superman and Earth-Man as well. While we do get this fight that these issues have lead us towards, we also get two things from this issue. Well, one is going straight to me anyways. One of the things, the one that wasn't directed at me, was a new mystery that we hope #863 will solve: the false information about Superman being a human is not only kryptonian, but a real artifact from the 21st century. I wonder how that got there, and wonder what that all means. Either way, #863 will hopefully solve that mystery.

The one thing that was directed at me, at least, happened to be more or less a eradication of my thoughts over the rejects and the Legion, which I saw as some sort of ploy on the popular group versus the reject group like movies such as the Revenge of the Nerds, for example. This issue cleared that up, as with a bit of a flashback to young Clark's youth, I was reminded that the Legion of Substitute Heroes were rejects too. But in comparison, those guys wouldn't bothered by their rejection, and instead decided to prove the LoSH wrong. In regards to the JLE, where they went on the revenge route. And, like Brainiac 5 says and what we saw in the previous issue, the rejects that make up the JLE are evil. So they would've been rejected either way, and this arc proves it. And, from the LoSH side, it wasn't at all the popular versus the rejected feel I felt Geoff Johns was sort of doing when this was introduced. So I was happy it wasn't the case, otherwise I would end up questioning this entire thing for a while. Luckily that won't be the case, thank god.

Overall, this issue happened to be another good one. As part 1 of this finale for #863 to conclude this arc, we learn a new mystery from the 21st century kryptonian relic that said Superman was a human, I was so glad that Johns wasn't trying to have the LoSH being the popular group in regards to the JLE rejects, and we got all of this in the fight between the LoSH, with help from the Substitute Heroes, against the JLE. #863 will finally conclude this arc that started back in #858, and I can't wait to see how this will all end, and how the real truth of Superman will back on everyone's minds in the future.

RATING: Yay

Next Issue: The Legion is the JLA in the 31st Century! The grand finale is upon us!