New Smashing Pumpkins single-- your thoughts?

[Lord of Nonsensical Crap]

As you may or may not already know, the Smashng Pumpkins have reunited and put out a new single called Tarantula (which can easily be heard on Youtube). Listening to it, what are your thoughts on it? Is it an improvement or really just a sad sign that the Pumpkins have lost their touch?

Myself, I think it sounds quite a bit like the stuff from Siamese Dream. Then again, I only own Siamese Dream and Mellon Collie, so I'm not exactly a decent judge.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

I loved Tarantula . It was very wild , loved the guitars on it. I'm pretty impressed by this and I can't wait for the album.

[DWEarhart]

Billy and Jimmy were always the main songwriters anyway; James delivered with the noise, and is a great songwriter himself. I'm really anticipating his next solo effort. But as a full fledged pumpkinhead I can't wait to see this new lineup. I've caught the original, I've seen Zwan, and I saw Billy when he was touring for his solo album. Hell yeah, I'm going to check out the re-modeled Pumpkins.

The single is great, and I've heard other songs from some shows that they've already done, and this new album is going to be all over the place. I am ecstatic about their return.

[the goddamn batman]

I'm listening to it right now... and I don't love it.

I'm a huge fan of the Pumpkins... enjoyed some of Zwan, and Billy solo ha it's moments, but the vocals on this sound terrible. Like, terribly mixed.

[twilight]

The music itself is fine but something about the vocals irks me.

Over-produced?

[the goddamn batman]

Over-produced?

I was thinking under-produced or just poorly-produced.

They don't ffit well enough with the song.

[twilight]

I was thinking under-produced or just poorly-produced.

They don't ffit well enough with the song.

It seems like it lacks edge to me.

Tarantula can easily stand alongside any of the heavy stuff on Mellon Collie musically but the vocals continue to weird me out.

Regardless I'll still be getting Zeitgeist on the first day.

[jesse_custer]

I don't think the Pumpkins ever surpassed Ghish, so I'm hoping this new one will get even closer.

[elheffe]

"Tarantula" to me, sounded too much like something off of Machina - The Machines of God. iTunes has for download the first song off of Zeitgeist called "Doomsday Clock" and it sounds more like Pumpkins of old. It'll be interesting to see how the rest of Zeitgeist sounds.

[DWEarhart]

Which is why every show so far has sold out.

[DWEarhart]

Okay, so I got some information wrong, but did Billy and Jimmy give you an ultra wedgie when you were young or something? Pee in your cereal?

Your more than welcome and privileged to express your opinion, but for a band you don't like, you're really caught up on their current status, so with the amount of hate your spreading about them, it sounds like you have some personal vendetta against them, if not, well, not much else I can surmise.

[Spike-X]

Which is why every show so far has sold out.
Speaking of sold out... (http://www.pitchforkmedia.com/article/news/43795-smashing-pumpkins-to-fans-indie-stores-fuck-you)

This is just plain, naked, soulless greed.

[DWEarhart]

Daddy gotta make that $$$$. Everyone's in the music biz to make money. Yeah, they love music, we understand that, but if they didn't want to make money, they wouldn't sign with a label.

And what's the main purpose for any band to do a reunion, besides enjoying playing together again, and sometimes not even that? $$$$$

Plus, it's not like anyone except the die hards are going to buy it. It's all going be available to dl anyway. I earn my money, and I spend my money. I buy what I choose with my money. Everyone else can decide what they want to do with theirs.

If people are pissed, then don't buy the album, don't go to their shows, and don't expect them to be the only band that does this.

Daddy gotta make that $$$$.

[Armless Penguin]

Corgan's been living off a poetry book and a Zwan record that nobody bought--give him a break.

And I don't understand why such a fuss is being made about that. Corgan hasn't ever advertised the new Pumpkins as an indie group, and anyone who thought he was bringing the band back for anything other than extra cash must have been living in some alternate reality.

[the goddamn batman]

That sound you hear is the collective silence of the music listening audience not giving a crap about a new Smashing Pumpkins record.


Folks have gotten sick and tired of Corgan's schtik and there is even less love for him since he continues to associate with a degenerate drug addict/murderer like Chamberlin.

Pumpkins peaked nearly 13 years ago, and now as I said before, no one cares.


Hey, everybody, look it's James Iha!

[the goddamn batman]

I dunno, I think the way they're releasing the album is totally lame.

I was going to BUY it, but after this, I think I'll just steal it instead.

Seriously, in all likelyhood it's a decision put forth by the label, and Billy doesn't have enough weight these days to tell them that's not ok... so it is what it is. The record labels are taking drastic measures to ensure more sales, because they're all strugling to make any money with illegal internet downloads being so... uh, free.

But I don't care. Fuck major labels. I hope they all die, and if I have to steal it to ensure their slow demise, then I will. And I won't feel bad about it.

Why the Pumpkins aren't self releasing this is beyond me. I'm sure Billy can still afford to do that. And bands are proving that they don't need a label to suceed all the time. Hell, an unsigned band made the top 40.

[Armless Penguin]

Putting aside the fact that you're going to blatenetly committ several felonies and you give less then a frozen pig shit about it, here's a clue for you: YOU CAN'T HAVE IT BOTH WAYS.


Assuming the CD costs $14, he'd have to download about 179 copies within 180 days to be charged with Felony Copyright Infringement.

Congress has distilled the crime of felony copyright infringement to four essential elements: (1) a copyright exists; (2) it was infringed by the defendant, specifically by reproduction or distribution of the copyrighted work; (3) the defendant acted "willfully"; and (4) the defendant infringed at least 10 copies of one or more copyrighted works with a total retail value of more than $2,500 within a 180-day period. See 17 U.S.C. § 506(a)(2); 18 U.S.C. § 2319(a), (c)(1). Further elaboration on these elements, if necessary, can be found in the recently published manual, Prosecuting Intellectual Property Crimes (2001) [2006 edition available at http://www.cybercrime.gov/ipmanual.] Criminal copyright infringement is discussed in depth in chapter III of the manual. [2006 edition: Chapter II.]

EDIT: Actually, it sounds like the individual item itself has to be over $2500 (legal jargon's certainly not my thing), which would mean he couldn't be charged at all. Not that I'm advocating it or anything.

[Infra-Man]

"Tarantula" is pretty good, but after hearing some live versions of the other new Pumpkins songs, I'm hesitant to pay for Zeitgesit until I hear the full album first. At the risk of sounding like a philistine, some of those new songs are pretty damn boring and sound like stuff that wasn't good enough to make it to Machina.

[the goddamn batman]

"Tarantula" is pretty good, but after hearing some live versions of the other new Pumpkins songs, I'm hesitant to pay for Zeitgesit until I hear the full album first. At the risk of sounding like a philistine, some of those new songs are pretty damn boring and sound like stuff that wasn't good enough to make it to Machina.

Well, except that there was the 2 cds worth of material that didn't make Machina, called Machina 2. Then there was Billy's solo record.

I don't think anything on Zeitgeist is even remotely close to Mcahina era.

That doesn't mean I think it's good... I ahven't really heard any of it beyond Tarantula.

[Infra-Man]

Well, except that there was the 2 cds worth of material that didn't make Machina, called Machina 2. Then there was Billy's solo record.

I don't think anything on Zeitgeist is even remotely close to Mcahina era.

That doesn't mean I think it's good... I ahven't really heard any of it beyond Tarantula.

True, and admittedly, I did like a couple of songs that were on the Machina 2 stuff. Why didn't "Slow Dawn" or "Soot and Stars" make it to Machina? Both were certainly a much better songs than "Heavy Metal Machine."

[Spike-X]

Daddy gotta make that $$$$. Everyone's in the music biz to make money. Yeah, they love music, we understand that, but if they didn't want to make money, they wouldn't sign with a label.

And what's the main purpose for any band to do a reunion, besides enjoying playing together again, and sometimes not even that? $$$$$

Plus, it's not like anyone except the die hards are going to buy it. It's all going be available to dl anyway. I earn my money, and I spend my money. I buy what I choose with my money. Everyone else can decide what they want to do with theirs.

If people are pissed, then don't buy the album, don't go to their shows, and don't expect them to be the only band that does this.

Daddy gotta make that $$$$.
There's a hell of a difference between trying to make money honestly and cynically exploiting your most loyal fans.

[twilight]

Speaking of sold out... (http://www.pitchforkmedia.com/article/news/43795-smashing-pumpkins-to-fans-indie-stores-fuck-you)

This is just plain, naked, soulless greed.

No offence Spike(I genuinely think you are a cool guy) but it seems like everybody does that these days.

Don't ask me to provide examples off the top of my head but I'm almost certain every release I hear about has an iTunes variant,Walmart variant blah blah blah.

[elheffe]

No offence Spike(I genuinely think you are a cool guy) but it seems like everybody does that these days.

Don't ask me to provide examples off the top of my head but I'm almost certain every release I hear about has an iTunes variant,Walmart variant blah blah blah.
Bloc Party's Weekend In The City had 4 or 5 variants. And seeing as how you could download all the extra tracks off of City on the internet the day the album came out, I don't see what the big fuss is. Buy one copy of Zeitgeist and download the rest of the bonus tracks.

[MartinRedmond]

Because I like listening to cds? This blows.

[heavysoul]

Wow! I had not heard/read the news on the multiple versions of this album. I can't believe Billy would allow this to happen (or be part of making this decision). He has a hardcore fanbase that, at very least, deserved to pick-up the album with the title track... no matter where they bought it.

I couldn't care less about bonus tracks... I'm not that big a nut. But the title track being a bonus track is ridiculous.

[MartinRedmond]

Also, there's no Target in Canada...

[Spike-X]

No offence Spike(I genuinely think you are a cool guy) but it seems like everybody does that these days.


None taken. And it's wrong when everybody does it. It's wrong when labels release the "Limited Tour Edition", rewarding the latecomers at the expense of the real fans who bought the album the day it came out. It's wrong when Bruce Springsteen releases an 'upgraded' version of an album he released six bloody months ago, or when his label puts out '18 Tracks' with three bonus tracks that somehow didn't make it to the box set, even though the discs only ran about sixty bloody minutes each.

It's greedy, it's exploitative, and it's just plain bloody wrong.

[MartinRedmond]

The album is very rock oriented. It's packed with guitar riffs. There's something odd about the vocals. They don't seem to blend with the music, it's like you're with him singing while the music is in another room. Some songs like come on let's go could've used more instrumental parts. If you like anthems and arena rockish tunes, you should be pleased. Not paying for the extra songs though. There's some Zwan and Future Embrace remnants in it, which all works really well. Variety in instruments isn't as varied as their older records.

I give it 8/10

[Cody H]

Definetly looking forward to it. Both Tarantula and Doomsday Clock are great rock tracks and if they're any indication of the what the album's going to be like, I'll be very pleased. Not that I've ever disliked a Pumpkins album but I've been hoping that'd put together a straight ahead guitar driven rock album since Mellon Collie, and from the sounds of things, I'll finally be getting it.

[MartinRedmond]

http://spinner.aol.com/artists/new-releases-full-cds
They sound like the Scorpions a little.

[Cody H]

http://spinner.aol.com/artists/new-releases-full-cds
They sound like the Scorpions a little.Thanks for the link!

[Infra-Man]

Have heard most of the songs off the new album and none of them really leapt at me like the songs on the previous Pumpkins albums did. It's like the songs on Zeitgeist lack the same sense of emotional urgency that really defined the Pumpkins for me growing up.

"That's The Way (My Love Is)" gets close, but like a lot of the songs on the album that I've heard, I don't really connect with them. "Doomsday Clock," "7 Shades of Black," and "Tarantula" are all pretty good, though. "Starz" and "Bleed the Orchid" are on the bland side, and "United States" is about 7 minutes too long.

EDIT:
I should add that for awhile I thought my taste in music had changed drastically and that the Pumpkins just aren't my cup of tea anymore. But I listened to Siamese Dream and Mellon Collie all the way through after listening to Zeitgeist and still found those two quintessential Pumpkins albums incredible. Heck, I was listening to Adore, The Aeroplane Flies High, and Machina and even enjoyed those a lot (well, maybe not all of Machina, but 3/4 of it).

[Reptisaurus!]

Speaking as someone who's listened to the band since High School... And pretty much hated everything they did since GISH...

Surprisingly listenable, really. Geezus.. I might have to call it good. Harder and faster and it's hard to understand the lyrics which makes it better than most of the Pumpkins by itself.

[Leslie Lee III]

There's a hell of a difference between trying to make money honestly and cynically exploiting your most loyal fans.

Actually the most loyal Smashing Pumpkins fans know how to download. They'll buy whatever copy of the album is easily available then do the sane thing and d/l an MP3 of the other stuff. I did and anyone even remotely familiar with SP's fanbase knows that this is something that will occur. So, no, they won't treat it like some here treated the multiple covers of Team Youngblood #8 and try to collect them all. I doubt even the record companies are short-sighted enough to think their fans are that stupid and desperate. Fanboy-think doesn't apply to everyone.

That's not to mention SP turned their website into a media sharing site and also have a new taping policy of, "Everyone is welcome to tape at our shows in whatever capacity they see fit."

I'm enjoying the album and bonus tracks. I'll pick up a primitive paper and plastic copy next week.

[redlantern2051]

I think its a fantastic album and has re-ignited my interest in them, totally. I saw Billy Corgan do a live show behind his solo CD, and then an intimate club gig, for free, here in Oz, and have really been quite eager for this reformation ever since. he really is a genuine talent.

[BizarroBeachHead]

I've only heard Tarantula, but I'm supremely unimpressed.

You can't go back.

I thought Billy had learned that lesson already.

I have no intention of buying this.

[Complaint Man]

Yes Billy Corgan, we get it. You are a very talented person. Here's a cookie, now go away.

[heavysoul]

A great blend of everything Billy's done over the years. The lo-fi vibe of the album takes a little getting used to but I dig it.

It's never gonna be the early 'cos Billy can't unlearn what he's come across in 16 years of recording but it doesn't have to be. I enjoy growth in songwriting/recording.

[BizarroBeachHead]

A great blend of everything Billy's done over the years. The lo-fi vibe of the album takes a little getting used to but I dig it.

It's never gonna be the early 'cos Billy can't unlearn what he's come across in 16 years of recording but it doesn't have to be. I enjoy growth in songwriting/recording.

Too bad that's not what we're seeing here.

[Infra-Man]

Actually, for anyone who listenned to or picked up the album:

Is it just me, or is there a lack of variety on the album? The tracks just don't seem as ecclectic as the stuff you'd see on other Pumpkins albums.

I mean, looking at Siamese Dream you can go from the poppy "Today" and "Rocket" to the balls out "Geek USA," the cathartic "Soma," the almost shoegaze-ish "Mayonaise," the angsty "Disarm," and the sympathetic "Spaceboy." And don't even get me started on the ecclectisism of Mellon Collie. Zeitgeist seems to lack that sheer variety.

[the_coldest_sun]

I think its pretty sad that the some of you are getting your panties in a bunch over the variant releases. That's idiotic to believe its because Billy Corgan wants to milk as much as he can from his "loyal fanbase". Stop whining already. Lots of bands have variant releases, imports, or LPs with bonus songs here and there. Am I to throw a hissy fit and curse Trent Reznor's name because he puts bonus tracks on LP versions of his albums. "Oh goddamn you Trent! I'll never buy your music again because you want me to buy your record versions PLUS the damn record player to play them on AS WELL AS buy the DOUBLE DISC versions and DVD/CD versions, AND dont forget those Japanese IMPORTS!!" Just pick the copy that suits you.

That article is just some fan boy whining because he feels betrayed. Like Billy Corgan owes him something. Seriously, those are just BONUS tracks. Songs that were never meant to be on the album anyway! o.O

Granted, I'm not the biggest Pumpkins fan, so I'm not defending my "savior". I enjoy his/their music from time to time, and I'll most likely pick up this album eventually. I just had to put it into perspective... if I achieved that at all...

[Cody H]

Actually, for anyone who listenned to or picked up the album:

Is it just me, or is there a lack of variety on the album? The tracks just don't seem as ecclectic as the stuff you'd see on other Pumpkins albums.It's not just you, I noticed this as well. It's definetly a straight ahead rock album. Based on what I'd heard about it, it sounded like it'd be a straight ahead rock album, which is pretty much what we got. Not complaining though, I was actually hoping for one of those since they did Mellon Collie. After a few listens though, I do wish they had included at least one or two slower / mid tempo songs.

[the goddamn batman]

I'll take Adore any day over this. Hell, I'll take The Future Embrace over Zeitgeist.

[BizarroBeachHead]

I think its pretty sad that the some of you are getting your panties in a bunch over the variant releases. That's idiotic to believe its because Billy Corgan wants to milk as much as he can from his "loyal fanbase". Stop whining already. Lots of bands have variant releases, imports, or LPs with bonus songs here and there. Am I to throw a hissy fit and curse Trent Reznor's name because he puts bonus tracks on LP versions of his albums. "Oh goddamn you Trent! I'll never buy your music again because you want me to buy your record versions PLUS the damn record player to play them on AS WELL AS buy the DOUBLE DISC versions and DVD/CD versions, AND dont forget those Japanese IMPORTS!!" Just pick the copy that suits you.

That article is just some fan boy whining because he feels betrayed. Like Billy Corgan owes him something. Seriously, those are just BONUS tracks. Songs that were never meant to be on the album anyway! o.O

Granted, I'm not the biggest Pumpkins fan, so I'm not defending my "savior". I enjoy his/their music from time to time, and I'll most likely pick up this album eventually. I just had to put it into perspective... if I achieved that at all...
Save it. There's a big fat difference between releasing an album on vinyl with a few extra B-sides and releasing four different versions all exclusive through different chain stores.

Japanese Imports? Those exist to counter the rampant bootlegging market.

You don't seem to understand why people are upset about this.

[Headhunter]

The single's alright, as is the rest of the album. It wasn't the kind of creative misstep that Zwan was (and what I've heard of Billy Corgan's solo album) was, but it doesn't that Pumpkins feel anymore.

There's been too much time, and too few returning band members to work for me. Zeitgeist doesn't do classic Pumpkins style music particularly well, and it doesn't do anything new either. I wish Corgan and Chamberlain had simply started a new project (like Velvet Revolver has) instead of going back to the well with mixed results.

Save it. There's a big fat difference between releasing an album on vinyl with a few extra B-sides and releasing four different versions all exclusive through different chain stores.
That said, I'm ashamed to say that I'm one of those suckers. While I'm not doing it for this album, I've already purchased 2 copies of Paramore's Riot! and will probably pick up some digital downloads to get their variant tracks.

[Leslie Lee III]

I think its pretty sad that the some of you are getting your panties in a bunch over the variant releases. That's idiotic to believe its because Billy Corgan wants to milk as much as he can from his "loyal fanbase". Stop whining already. Lots of bands have variant releases, imports, or LPs with bonus songs here and there. Am I to throw a hissy fit and curse Trent Reznor's name because he puts bonus tracks on LP versions of his albums. "Oh goddamn you Trent! I'll never buy your music again because you want me to buy your record versions PLUS the damn record player to play them on AS WELL AS buy the DOUBLE DISC versions and DVD/CD versions, AND dont forget those Japanese IMPORTS!!" Just pick the copy that suits you.

That article is just some fan boy whining because he feels betrayed. Like Billy Corgan owes him something. Seriously, those are just BONUS tracks. Songs that were never meant to be on the album anyway! o.O

Granted, I'm not the biggest Pumpkins fan, so I'm not defending my "savior". I enjoy his/their music from time to time, and I'll most likely pick up this album eventually. I just had to put it into perspective... if I achieved that at all...

Again, since this is comic book message board lots of people will have no concept of behaving sensibly when it comes to variant releases. They might really buy the Japanese Import and Maxi-Single and LP (even if they don't have a record player).

Save it. There's a big fat difference between releasing an album on vinyl with a few extra B-sides and releasing four different versions all exclusive through different chain stores.

And that difference is, what? You know you're too lazy to bother with the vinyl, but are just geek enough to actually consider buying two CD/Digital copies of the same album? That lack of self control is not fault of the bands or the record companies. Again, I've got all the tracks and only bought one copy. No one else is being stopped from doing the same.

[Voncaster]

I bought the Target version of Zeitgeist. I have listened to it about four times all the way through so far. I'm a big Pumpkins/Zwan/Corgan fan, so perhaps you should take my opinion with a grain of salt.

I think the new album is good, and a worthy part of the pumpkins catalog.

The only review I have read of the album so far is from Pitchfork, which wasn't very enthusiastic (4.9 out of 10). It basically stated (as you all have), that Billy created a hard rock/metal pumpkins album that abondoned the softer melodic side of the pumpkins. While there is not an even balance between hard and soft, I think both types of music are present. "That's the Way" and "Zeitgeist" are both of the more melodic variety. I think the heavier stuff is also very good. It may not be their best but its entertaining and better than 90% of the stuff I hear on the radio. I haven't heard the Best Buy or iTunes exclusive tracks, but I must say I find the track "Zeitgeist" to be a great closer. I'm hoping at some point in the future this album gets re-released with all the tracks includding "gossomer" which has been showing up on Pumpkin setlists but as near as I can tell is not availible commercially in any format.

Is the album a masterpiece? No. But its certainly above average contrary to what Pitchfork says. I like it about the same as Adore & Pices Iscariot. Not as good Mellon Collie or Siamese Dream, but a worthy pumpkins album. After 7 years, its nice to have them back and making music again.

I would have liked the original line up reunited. But when it gets down to it, Billy Corgan is the heart and soul of the Pumpkins. I don't object to him using the name with a different group of players.

[the_coldest_sun]

Again, since this is comic book message board lots of people will have no concept of behaving sensibly when it comes to variant releases. They might really buy the Japanese Import and Maxi-Single and LP (even if they don't have a record player).



And that difference is, what? You know you're too lazy to bother with the vinyl, but are just geek enough to actually consider buying two CD/Digital copies of the same album? That lack of self control is not fault of the bands or the record companies. Again, I've got all the tracks and only bought one copy. No one else is being stopped from doing the same.

Thanks for the save, Leslie Lee.

I DO understand why people are getting upset about this. I was using NIN & LPs as an example because it was off the top of my head. The movie companies do the exact same thing with DVD releases. When Batman Begins came out, Best Buy had the Holographic cover, while Circuit City had the Lithograph add-on. Does that mean diehard Bat-fans MUST buy each variant copy of the DVD? If you're THAT into it, go for it. But I don't understand the crying over it. They're added tracks. One per variant, mostly, on TOP of the Standard track-list. Now what I WOULD be upset over, is if there were multiple versions of the CD that contain different groups of songs altogether. But we're talking about bonus tracks, people, bonus tracks.

Be angry all you want, I don't mind. But I just think its unfair to throw your stones at a musician your supposedly a fan of, and make up unjust motivations for adding thow-away songs to his album for different retailers. Hell, if I was him and knew it would get this bad, I wouldn't even have bothered with giving a little more to fans and made all copies the Standard 11-track album.

EDIT: OMG, lol. I just bought a copy of the Target version (where I work) and its the standard version, which is 12 tracks not 11 like I said above. Oh well.

[Headhunter]

I DO understand why people are getting upset about this. I was using NIN & LPs as an example because it was off the top of my head. The movie companies do the exact same thing with DVD releases. When Batman Begins came out, Best Buy had the Holographic cover, while Circuit City had the Lithograph add-on. Does that mean diehard Bat-fans MUST buy each variant copy of the DVD? If you're THAT into it, go for it. But I don't understand the crying over it. They're added tracks. One per variant, mostly, on TOP of the Standard track-list. Now what I WOULD be upset over, is if there were multiple versions of the CD that contain different groups of songs altogether. But we're talking about bonus tracks, people, bonus tracks.
I'd actually feel better about different groups of songs, as I'd be getting more original/different content. Not that I'm advocating that...

[Leslie Lee III]

I mixed in the Bonus songs on my MP3 list in the proper order and I'll give it a listen tomorrow. I originally just tacked the three tracks on at the end. I think "Pomp and Circumstances" followed by "Zeitgeist" will flow a bit weird. "Zeitgeist" is clearly just a demo track, but Death from Above and Stellar are grand.

I'd kill for a studio version of Gossamer and hope to Ares that it gets a proper release (as opposed to some 128kb iTunes bollocks).

[BizarroBeachHead]

And that difference is, what? You know you're too lazy to bother with the vinyl, but are just geek enough to actually consider buying two CD/Digital copies of the same album? That lack of self control is not fault of the bands or the record companies. Again, I've got all the tracks and only bought one copy. No one else is being stopped from doing the same.
Not quite sure what you mean here. I buy my music from the local record store. The difference is that the exclusives are only available through chain stores. Corgan is cutting the local music stores out of his game.

Frankly, it's not that big a shock to me, Corgan has long since abandoned any sense of community he used to have in favor of being a pop star.

The movie companies do the exact same thing with DVD releases...You're DVD analogy is wildly out of place. We're not talking about alternate covers here, we're talking about alternate content.

Also, this is all coming from the guy that was so overwhelmed with material that he decided to release it all as a double album as well as some twenty some odd additional tracks available on the singles. Now he's dividing up material on exclusive releases?

Corgan used to mean something to a lot of people, but now he's very far from being the same man. But that's not what bothers me. What bothers me is that we have a washed up musician clinging to his star status by releasing a nostalgia album complete with corporate trickery attempting to boost sales. It's just sad.

But people listen to what they want to listen to, and some people don't like looking past Wal-Mart or Target to find music.

[Leslie Lee III]

Corgan is cutting the local music stores out of his game.

Of course! It's Corgan and his well known, personal vendetta against local music stores and not the record companies and retail chains that have been cutting out local music stores for years.

You're DVD analogy is wildly out of place. We're not talking about alternate covers here, we're talking about alternate content.

Content that's readily available elsewhere for free on this very internet.

Also, this is all coming from the guy that was so overwhelmed with material that he decided to release it all as a double album as well as some twenty some odd additional tracks available on the singles.

Now it's been a few years, but I'm pretty sure that buying those 5 singles cost a lot more than downloading those 3 tracks. In fact, buying MCIS and The Aeroplane Flies High cost more than buying all 4 the versions of Zeitgeist, like an idiot.

[heavysoul]

BizarroBeachHead, it's obvious you feel completely ripped-off by this new release. I mean, no one can post a message that doesn't slag the record/Corgan off without being derailed by you.

Not everyone feels ripped-off. I'm disappointed, but I simply drove to a Target to get the title track version of the album. Anyone/everyone living in the US has the opportunity to do the same. I'm not a big singles collector so I can't be bothered with the other versions of the album. Simple as.

As for the local indie shops...

I feel bad for them but Corgan tends to show-up at those shops for signings and whatnot. I don't know whether he's ever done that for Target and/or Best Buy.

Even independent artists are offering exclusives through these chain outlets. Anton Newcombe (Brian Jonestown Massacre) offered a free disc exclusively through Best Buy packaged with the rock-doc, DIG! You can still buy the DVD wherever you like, though.

Again, my only gripe with what the record company did is that [I believe] the title track version of the album should have gone out to ALL outlets.

[BizarroBeachHead]

I should clarify. I wasn't aware I was derailing the thread...:rolleyes: The multiple releases don't really bother me as much as I've been complaining about them. I'm not even planning on buying any version of the album, but I do think it's pretty pathetic and am going to argue that point against apathetic music listeners who cave to corporate capitalism.

Honestly, I'm much more bothered by the poor quality of the album as opposed to the multiple releases.


Again, my only gripe with what the record company did is that [I believe] the title track version of the album should have gone out to ALL outlets.This is one of the things that really got me against the release.

Now it's been a few years, but I'm pretty sure that buying those 5 singles cost a lot more than downloading those 3 tracks. In fact, buying MCIS and The Aeroplane Flies High cost more than buying all 4 the versions of Zeitgeist, like an idiot.Yeah...for all new content, not three songs.

The whole thing is silly. I've seen musicians do worse things than release variants through major chains, I suppose it's nothing to get worked up about.

[twilight]

Does anyone really like the Pumpkins enough at this point to rush out and buy all the different versions?

I like them but I don't really care.

I'll get whatever version I get and that'll be that.

[Leslie Lee III]

This is one of the things that really got me against the release.

Newsflash:

The "title track" is clearly and unfinished demo, the worst of the "bonus" songs, and not at all essential to the album. It seems less like a title track and more like a song he couldn't think of a title for but had to give to the label for this bonus nonesense. You should lose as much sleep over it as not getting the title track to Siamese Dream.

And while you're railing against the machine you should know that these retailers, including itunes, have been demanding that labels and artists deliver these "bonus tracks" in order to recieve promotion of their albums. The artists don't have much choice in the matter if they actually want people to know their album is coming out.

Again, my only gripe with what the record company did is that [I believe] the title track version of the album should have gone out to ALL outlets.

Then they probably would have had to give up another unfinished demo to ship out as a bonus. "Zeitgeist" is easily the least essential of these tracks.

[BizarroBeachHead]

Thanks for the flash. I did not know that.

[heavysoul]

I don't believe the title track... demo or finished track should have been a bonus track... that is the point I'm making. Put the title track on every version and let the *bonus tracks* be the *bonus tracks*. I'm not arguing against the album... I own it. I got the title track version 'cos I felt it is the only "essential" version. I can understand people raising an eyebrow to that being an exclusive release.

[Leslie Lee III]

I don't believe the title track... demo or finished track should have been a bonus track... that is the point I'm making. Put the title track on every version and let the *bonus tracks* be the *bonus tracks*. I'm not arguing against the album... I own it. I got the title track version 'cos I felt it is the only "essential" version. I can understand people raising an eyebrow to that being an exclusive release.

Let's put it this way: The 12 track version of Zeitgeist is the real version. Everything else is something the retailers probably extorted from the band and forced them to put on their album. You saying they should have put "Zeitgeist" on their may be valid, but only if you understand that the band probably didn't want to put it on there in the first place and were forced to. If it wasn't for the "exclusive bonus" scheme you probably wouldn't even be hearing the track now, "title track" or otherwise. This wouldn't be the first time SP has left the "title track" off of an album.

[the goddamn batman]

Anybody see this?

http://www.thestranger.com/seattle/Content?oid=262627

I'm done with Billy. This is just the most disgusting thing I've ever seen him do or say.

Also, it would appear that the four different versions of the record was his idea. Either way, the album isn't very good, and I guess I just 'don't get it'.:rolleyes:

[twilight]

That's pretty lame.

I like his music but Billy Corgan needs a punch in the face.

[BizarroBeachHead]

That....is hilarious.

[Fish Sauce]

Double you tee eff.

[Leslie Lee III]

That....is hilarious.

And that's clearly the point. I can't believe people would see it as anything else. I haven't laughed this hard in a while. Corgan has a very good sense of humor, and is a huge pro wrestling fan so talking smack like that should taken with the same weight you take Rowdy, Roddy Piper. He did this a lot during the Machina era too. Unbunch panties, have a laugh.

[heavysoul]

What a bizarre press release. Corgan definitely has a sense of humor. Why humor? 'Cos if you've been paying attention to his lyrics since Machina you'll know that attitude is against what he believes and stands for. Comparing his band to Panic! At The Disco?! Have a laugh, people, or the laugh's on you.

The best best is him slagging off his book and side projects. I can't wait to see this quoted by anti-Corgans and other would-be critics.

[cactusmaac]

I really liked thefutureembrace. This anything like that?

[Reptisaurus!]

Psssst.

Here's a link to another collumn from the Stranger called Ask Aquaman. (http://www.thestranger.com/seattle/Content?oid=2200)

Note that it is not written by the actual, real-life Aquaman.

Just sayin'.

[BizarroBeachHead]

hehehehehe....

[the_coldest_sun]

LOL. It says at the bottom of the letter that its a hoax letter.

[MartinRedmond]

I love the album but I'm disapointed that I'm missing 3 tracks from it. Not paying 45$ for the whole package. What's the point of this? Encouraging piracy? :rolleyes:

[Leslie Lee III]

What's the point of this? Encouraging piracy?

That's pretty much what happens with everything the music industry does. Although it has to be said that the labels may not be to blame for this. The retailers extort the artists into giving up extra songs for "exclusives" so that you'll come to their store and buy other stuff while you're at it (or, with itunes, buy more of your music from it). Don't feel cheated, because you really did buy the album the band intended to release in the first place. No one will blame you for just downloading the rest of the stuff.

[MartinRedmond]

What's furthermore annoying is that those tracks aren't always easy to find in good quality. I was never able to find the extra tracks for Fischerspooner's Odissey. I've already bought the album, why would I pay again for 2 more tracks?

[the_coldest_sun]

That's pretty much what happens with everything the music industry does. Although it has to be said that the labels may not be to blame for this. The retailers extort the artists into giving up extra songs for "exclusives" so that you'll come to their store and buy other stuff while you're at it (or, with itunes, buy more of your music from it). Don't feel cheated, because you really did buy the album the band intended to release in the first place. No one will blame you for just downloading the rest of the stuff.

Well said.

[evilplaymobils]

Smashing Pumpkins are playing in my country in about one month with Kasabian and Manic Street Preachers.
are they worth seeing??i suppose yes:P:P

[the_coldest_sun]

Smashing Pumpkins are playing in my country in about one month with Kasabian and Manic Street Preachers.
are they worth seeing??i suppose yes:P:P

I'm a Smashing Pumpkins fan, and I have never seen them live in person. Yet every tapped performance I've seen seems kinda boring. They just stand there and play. Hopefully the new guitarist and bassist do more than "just stand there". However, if I could personally afford to go (although I have no idea what their ticket prices are these days), I would definitely want to see them perform live at least once in my life.

[heavysoul]

The tapes I've seen indicate The Pumpkins are more like a shoegaze band than anything else. You won't get wild show... but you'll be treated to some amazing music.

Kasabian is amazing live.

I don't know about The Manics... I've seen Jools Holland performances and they seem to have shoegaze tendencies too.

[Cody H]

I really liked thefutureembrace. This anything like that?No, not really. You'll recognize Corgan's voice, that's about it. Zeitgeist doesn't have much in terms of the electronica influence apparent in thefutureembrace.

[Voncaster]

Smashing Pumpkins are playing in my country in about one month with Kasabian and Manic Street Preachers.
are they worth seeing??i suppose yes:P:P

In my opinion seeing Billy Corgan play is definitely worth paying for. I've seen Zwan once and the Smashing Pumpkins once. Both concerts I thought were worth the money.

The Pumpkins/Zwan play long shows and the setlists are varied. Billy is a great guitar player and Jimmy is a fantastic drummer. The Pumpkins/Zwan also have the tendancy to play songs not availible on their albums at their shows as well. "Gossomer" is a new song showing up on setlists but which I have never heard. Zwan played some song about Chicago that was definitely was not Mary Star of the Sea.

I would encourage you to check out the pumpkins. I'm catching the St.Paul show in October...I can't wait.

[the goddamn batman]

LOL. It says at the bottom of the letter that its a hoax letter.

I'm really glad someone saw that. I guess my ":rolleyes: " wasn't very clear in retrospect. Oh well, I thought it was funny, anyway.

[Leslie Lee III]

Smashing Pumpkins are playing in my country in about one month with Kasabian and Manic Street Preachers.
are they worth seeing??i suppose yes:P:P

Absolutely. Unlike the vast majority of bands they're always switching up their setlists, making new songs to play, changing up songs, etc. Go to http://www.smashingpumpkins.com there are a ton of live videos.

This is my favorite: Gossamer (http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=2EEFB674CAE74385).

They just stand there and play.

Are there any bands that do something different? I've been to a number of concerts and never seen any band do anything other than stand there and play. Now Pop acts are a different story, but bands generally have to stay in an area and play. A lead singer who doesn't have to play guitar may run around the stage a bit, but that's not really more prevalent or exciting than a guitar solo.

What makes the Pumpkins better than most bands, however, is that when they stand there and play it's not the same songs every night played the same way they were on the album. They're easily the most interesting live band of the ones I follow. They are always doing something different.

[the_coldest_sun]

Absolutely. Unlike the vast majority of bands they're always switching up their setlists, making new songs to play, changing up songs, etc. Go to http://www.smashingpumpkins.com there are a ton of live videos.

This is my favorite: Gossamer (http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=2EEFB674CAE74385).



Are there any bands that do something different? I've been to a number of concerts and never seen any band do anything other than stand there and play. Now Pop acts are a different story, but bands generally have to stay in an area and play. A lead singer who doesn't have to play guitar may run around the stage a bit, but that's not really more prevalent or exciting than a guitar solo.

What makes the Pumpkins better than most bands, however, is that when they stand there and play it's not the same songs every night played the same way they were on the album. They're easily the most interesting live band of the ones I follow. They are always doing something different.

The shows I've been to and seen on DVD have been quite different from the live footage I've seen of the Pumpkins. Danzig, Stone Temple Pilots, and Mellowdrone (as well as the two NIN DVDs I own) are the ones I remember more vividly and they "got down" something fierce. Granted, I've seen A Perfect Circle, Godsmack, and Powerman 5000 who "just stood there", but being a fan of their music, it in no way made watching perform less enjoyable. The music still sounded amazing live and puts out a kind of energy you just can't get from the album recording. Like I said before, Smashing Pumpkins is a band I would LOVE to see at least once live, and I'm sure I'd enjoy the hell out of it. I didn't mean to sound as if I was knocking down them as a performing band.

So I got to listening to the new album, and I really love it. It surpassed my expectations (which weren't that high to begin with). In fact, its the kind of sounding album I've been waiting to hear for the longest time. The only track I'm not fond of is Pomp & Circumstance. The rest I think are amazing. Bleeding the Orchid, United States, Neverlost, Bring the Light, 7 Shades of Black, and For God & Country stood out the most to me. I don't understand the hate on the vocals. They sound great to me. In fact, I think Corgan's vocals are better on Zeitgeist than on Machina. The production value sounds just fine to me. On a five point rating scale, it gets 5/5 from me and I'm not even a die-hard fan.

EDIT: I'd just like to add, that what I respect about the Smashing Pumpkins is the ability keep their (his) music evolving with each album. Not one really sounds like the other. Bands that do that (Danzig, Nine Inch Nails, Radiohead, SP, Black Label Society, Stone Temple Pilots & Black Flag to name a few) get much respect from me, and it also influences me and inspires me to do the same with my own music. If you have a creative idea, DO IT! After all, music is suppose to be a form of creative output. Doing the same thing gets boring and pointless after a while. The musician has to please themselves first, or else they're doing it for all the wrong reasons. Just my 2 cents.

On the other hand, I didn't catch the Pumpkins when Gish & Siamese Dreams came out, so I CAN understand how many feel betrayed (or rather, disappointed) by their musical style changes. I'm just offering another way of looking at it.

[Cody H]

I don't understand the hate on the vocals. They sound great to me. In fact, I think Corgan's vocals are better on Zeitgeist than on Machina. The production value sounds just fine to me. On a five point rating scale, it gets 5/5 from me and I'm not even a die-hard fan.I agree about the vocals. They're definetly better than those from Machina, where the vocals sounded mixed a little too low to hear in some songs. There's a definite difference in Corgan's vocals post-Mellon Collie though. He doesn't tend to scream through as many tracks as he used to, even when the songs call for it. Not a huge criticism or anything, just something I've noticed.

[MartinRedmond]

Wtf, the vocals are mixed all weird. It sounds okay on cheap speakers, but on a good sound system like I have at home, it sounds like the music is playing in the background.

The album sounds like 80s arena rock btw. Not shoegaze at all.