JLAvengers League: Tommy vs. Dipset Byrd Gang

[Sean Whitmore]

Welcome to the first match of the 2007 JLAvengers League! The League is a large-scale series of battles—a tournament—where posters draft teams and pit their teams against that of other posters, and you vote to decide who wins. When voting, please consider the strategies the players have written, rather than just the team's roster.

Each match takes place in a different locale from the Marvel or DC Universe. The teams begin 100 yards away from each other. Each character is depicted as they were in the JLA/Avengers mini series (with few exceptions), and the characters have to act in character (meaning that the heroes cannot kill if they aren't normally wont to do so).

If you have any questions about the strategies, please feel free to post these questions here, and the players will answer. The match will last twenty-four hours. After that time period, the player with the largest number of votes wins.

NOTE - For your vote to count, you must have a post count of no lower than fifty.

Today’s match: Tommy versus Dipset Byrd Gang. This match takes place in the Marvel Universe's Brooklyn Bridge. Tommy's team is out to retrieve the Evil Eye, and Dipset's team is set to defend it.

Tommy: Zatanna, Sersi, Darkseid, Spawn, Kang, Plastic Man, Mantis

Dipset Byrd Gang: Green Lantern (Kilowog), Magneto, Ultra Man, Warbird, Lion-O, The Key and Rachel Grey

[Sean Whitmore]

Tommy's strategy:

The first move from my team will be Sersi creating an illusion of my team standing several feet closer to the opposing team. She will also engage Rachel Grey.

While she is doing this Zatanna will say “Elbisivni” making my team undetectable.

As this happens Darkseid will Omega Effect Ultraman.

Once Darkseid has gotten rid of Ultraman he will join Sersi in psychic combat, and between the two of them they will knock Rachel out.

And invisible Mantis will then go to fight the Key. As she has significant psychic powers of her own, she will be immune to the Key’s extra senses. And as she is a bullet timer she will make short work of him.

Meanwhile Kang will be dealing with Kilowog. First he will pull out a neural disruption device. Then he will start firing anti-mater at him.

Since Zatanna has made my team invisible she will turn to Magneto and say “On Erom Stnatum.” Thus rendering him powerless. Should Rachel Grey still be active when Zatanna's spell is uttered, she will also be depowered.

And Spawn will take on Lion-O. As Spawn is massively physically powerful and has major regeneration, and is willing to kill… he will quickly over power Lion-o.

Plastic man will keep Warbird occupied, until Sersi is finally free from her psychic combat. Sersi will teleport behind Warbird and telepathically shut her brain down.

As she is doing that Darksied will join Kang’s fight against Kilowog. Between Kang’s Technology and Darksied’s physical powers, plus the Omega Effect, Kilowog will go down.

[Sean Whitmore]

Dipset Byrd Gang's strategy:

Tommy's Team is very formidble. He has a ton of deadly people. Darkseid, Zantanna, Kang, Plastic Man, Sersi, Spawn and Mantis.

My team is no slouch also.

Battle takes place on the Brooklyn Bridge. And my team will defend the Evil eye.


The main focus is to protect the artifact and take the heavy hitters such as Jobberseid, Zantanna, Sersi and Spawn.

Pre-Moves

The main threats are Darkseid, Zantanna, Plastic Man, Sersi and Spawn.

So they need to be taken out first.

Phase 1 Everthing happens at the same time and instantly

-Magneto will be protecting the the artifact along with the key. Mags will have a forcefield up. And at the same time he will be lifting the bridge in half and turning it on the other team. This should distract them for a long time.

-Rachael Grey is a powerful tp. She will takeover Zantanna's mind and tell her to put Darkseid to sleep. SHe will say "plees deiskarD". He is out of the battle.

-The key will telepathically be messing with people's heads that are not telepathically immune. This will cause confession.

-Ultra Man will speedblitz to the other team and take out Plastic MAn and mantis before they have a chance to react. HE is fast and deadly. After this he starts throwing cars at the opposing team.

-Kilowogg creates giants to go after the other team and help take them out. He then puts a sheild around the opposing team.

-Lion o uses the sword of omens to defeat Spawn. HE just uses it on spawn and he is out of the battle.

-Warbird cleans up the opposing team along with everyone else and the opposing team is taking out.

[Jessica Drew]

How powerful a psi is Sersi? Would she be able to create an illusion at the same time she's attacking Rachel? If so, would her attack be powerful enough to stop Rachel attacking Zatanna?

Would Magento bending the bridge in half affect/distract/delay Zatanna enough for her not to be able to cast her second spell?

Is Kang psi-resistant? Is Spawn psi-resistant?

[rondre sleazde]

Sorry about the short strat. The board kept on messing up and I wa getting fustrated making me mad. So next time I'll put more effort into it.

[Jessica Drew]

Sorry about the short strat. The board kept on messing up and I wa getting fustrated making me mad. So next time I'll put more effort into it.

Nothing to apologize for, bro. The short strategy makes it easy to understand.

[Tommy]

How powerful a psi is Sersi? Would she be able to create an illusion at the same time she's attacking Rachel? If so, would her attack be powerful enough to stop Rachel attacking Zatanna?
I am not sure exactly how powerful she is. However she will only be attacking Rachel alone for a few moments before Darkseid joins her.


Would Magento bending the bridge in half affect/distract/delay Zatanna enough for her not to be able to cast her second spell?
I personally think she can. Magneto will be bending the bridge to affect a point a short distance from her. Plus she can move invisibly farther away if it really causes problems.


Is Kang psi-resistant? Is Spawn psi-resistant?

Spawn I do not know about, but I am fairly certain I have read about Kang protecting himself from telepathy. I know I have read about him using various devices to affect people's minds such as paralysis generators.

[Froggy]

what era spawn is this again?

[Mike Smash!]

I don't buy the quick take down of Ultra Man at all. He's an evil Superman and we've seen Superman take the Omega Effect on the chest before and I'd have to imagine that Ultra Man would be able to do just about anything that Superman could do physically.

[ragnarok_2012]

Dipset, would you please explain in detail what Magneto is doing exactly to the bridge?

And I don't buy that Zatanna can make Darkseid fall asleep or convert mutants into normal humans.

[Tommy]

I don't buy the quick take down of Ultra Man at all. He's an evil Superman and we've seen Superman take the Omega Effect on the chest before and I'd have to imagine that Ultra Man would be able to do just about anything that Superman could do physically.

He doesn't necessarily have to destroy him. The Omega Effect could just teleport him someplace vary far away in the universe. As far as I know, no one has ever stopped an Omega Effect teleport.

[Mike Smash!]

I have no idea what to make of the Lion-O and Spawn strats. For one thing, they seemed to pick the exact same opponent (each other) and seem to have this blind faith that they'll simply just overpower the other without any problems or without any tactic or plan.

How powerful are these guys anyways?

[Froggy]

I don't buy the quick take down of Ultra Man at all. He's an evil Superman and we've seen Superman take the Omega Effect on the chest before and I'd have to imagine that Ultra Man would be able to do just about anything that Superman could do physically. good p oint, since this is JOBBERseid, not Pre Crisis Darkseid, who'd take on utlraman and superman while eating his lunch


Dipset, would you please explain in detail what Magneto is doing exactly to the bridge?

And I don't buy that Zatanna can make Darkseid fall asleep or convert mutants into normal humans. I dont buy the first part, cause it seems out of her power range, but i can buy the second part considering her magic does have HIGH end limits


He doesn't necessarily have to destroy him. The Omega Effect could just teleport him someplace vary far away in the universe. As far as I know, no one has ever stopped an Omega Effect teleport. well i dont know fi darkseid has ever used them to teleport supes in the current day......he's done it to supes when he thought he was clark kent in the manofsteel series

[Mike Smash!]

He doesn't necessarily have to destroy him. The Omega Effect could just teleport him someplace vary far away in the universe. As far as I know, no one has ever stopped an Omega Effect teleport.But it's been said that no one can be teleported out of the arena, so it has to assume that he thinks he's vaporizing him.

The strat didn't say anything about teleporting and if it's just a massive Omega Effect blast, Superman's taken one of those before. So why not Ultra Man too?

[Mike Smash!]

I don't buy Zatanna being able to turn off mutants' powers, but if she WAS going to attempt such a thing, I think it would count as a "major effect/spell" and require 15-30 seconds, during which I don't think she's being defended.

[ragnarok_2012]

good p oint, since this is JOBBERseid, not Pre Crisis Darkseid, who'd take on utlraman and superman while eating his lunch

I dont buy the first part, cause it seems out of her power range, but i can buy the second part considering her magic does have HIGH end limits

well i dont know fi darkseid has ever used them to teleport supes in the current day......he's done it to supes when he thought he was clark kent in the manofsteel series

THe rules as set out by Dipset say that major effects for spellcasters requires something like 15 seconds. So if a voter feels that Zatanna can do that, it would still require that amount of time to cast the spell.

[Jessica Drew]

Froggy, conversely, I'd sooner buy Zatanna putting Darkseid to sleep than I would changing the DNA of both mutants in the battle. If that was the only spell she was working on throughout the match, then, yeah, I might buy it more easily than I do now. Not that I think she couldn't do it, because I think she can, but Dipset did state that magicians must take longer to cast more powerful spells.

As far as the bridge goes, Magneto's powerful, but he's going to be straining to 1). Keep a forcefield over his team, 2). Fold half the bridge back over the opposing team, and 3). Keep his side of the bridge from collapsing--all at the same time.

The Omega Effect: how many times has it NOT worked to at least knock someone out post-crisis?

These three aspects are what my vote hinges on, and I just hope I'll have time to log on tomorrow to vote.

If not, then know I cared, and know I tried ('cause I will! Promise!).

[ragnarok_2012]

Another thought: Sersi is capable of teleportation, but it's physically very uncomfortable.

As I recall, she won't really be able to do too much combat wise for a few minutes after she teleports.

[Mike Smash!]

As far as the bridge goes, Magneto's powerful, but he's going to be straining to 1). Keep a forcefield over his team, 2). Fold half the bridge back over the opposing team, and 3). Keep his side of the bridge from collapsing--all at the same time.This is an excellent point.

Not to mention that non-flyers could be falling to their deaths and given that a number of them are invisible, can they see each other to catch them?

Magneto is powerful, but I can't see him doing all of this stuff at once.

[Froggy]

THe rules as set out by Dipset say that major effects for spellcasters requires something like 15 seconds. So if a voter feels that Zatanna can do that, it would still require that amount of time to cast the spell. so speedblitz is viable, since she's not defended that long


Froggy, conversely, I'd sooner buy Zatanna putting Darkseid to sleep than I would changing the DNA of both mutants in the battle. If that was the only spell she was working on throughout the match, then, yeah, I might buy it more easily than I do now. Not that I think she couldn't do it, because I think she can, but Dipset did state that magicians must take longer to cast more powerful spells.

As far as the bridge goes, Magneto's powerful, but he's going to be straining to 1). Keep a forcefield over his team, 2). Fold half the bridge back over the opposing team, and 3). Keep his side of the bridge from collapsing--all at the same time.

The Omega Effect: how many times has it NOT worked to at least knock someone out post-crisis?

These three aspects are what my vote hinges on, and I just hope I'll have time to log on tomorrow to vote.

If not, then know I cared, and know I tried ('cause I will! Promise!).
It hasn't worked on superman to knock him out more than once, nor has it worked on doomsday, but I guess in that case since there's no one on THAT level in this fight at least, it has a chance of working. I cant remember darkseid using it on anyoen outside of the superfamily really post crisis (it worked on supergirl....teleported her).

[Mike Smash!]

Are Sersi's powers magical in nature or psionic?

Because if this is a non-magical illusion, I think that Ultra Man with his enhanced sense that would allow him to hear, smell or see them in this ability to see in the entire spectrum including infrared.

[Tommy]

Are Sersi's powers magical in nature or psionic?

They are a combination of Psionics, Cosmic energy manipulation and transmutation.


Because if this is a non-magical illusion, I think that Ultra Man with his enhanced sense that would allow him to hear, smell or see them in this ability to see in the entire spectrum including infrared.

Well they are suposed to effect all the senses. So his enhanced senses would probibly be working against him.

[Mike Smash!]

so speedblitz is viable, since she's not defended that long.But Ultra Man doesn't try to speedblitz Zatanna. He targets Mantis (who would go down quickly) and Plastic Man who's very hard to hurt (unless Ultra Man targeted him with freezing breath or heat vision, which his doesn't specify)

[Mike Smash!]

They are a combination of Psionics, Cosmic energy manipulation and transmutation.So, non-magical.


Well they are suposed to effect all the senses. So his enhanced senses would probibly be working against him.I'm sorry, Tommy, but you didn't specify that and I have to assume you mean just visually, otherwise we open it up to people being able to use semantics to argue around something that they hadn't anticipating, rather than just explaining it better.

Like if Kilowog were to throw a force field over his team, but didn't specify that it screened out both physical and mental attacks, then I'd have to assume it was simply a physical force field.

And I don't want people to have an excuse effectively changing their strats once the battle's begun.

[Tommy]

I'm sorry, Tommy, but you didn't specify that and I have to assume you mean just visually, otherwise we open it up to people being able to use semantics to argue around something that they hadn't anticipating, rather than just explaining it better.

Actually I did mean "Illusion Generation: Sersi is able to generate illusions that affect all five human senses." (http://www.geocities.com/brenni_au/SersiProfile.html) When Sersi casts illusions she just doesn't make visual illusions she makes complete sensory experiences.

It is effectively saying that because someone didn't specify that Sue Storm's force fields were invisible everyone can see them. Or more accurately that Mastermind's illusions will be just visual when they have every single time been shown to affect all the senses.

[Mike Smash!]

Based on what Rags and I have researched, if Spawn and Lion-O ran at each other without a plan and just assumed that they could effortlessly beat the other up and had no strategy for it, that Spawn would easily overpower the Thundercat and take him out. He's just outclassed.

...even if Spawn does suck.

[Mike Smash!]

Actually I did mean "Illusion Generation: Sersi is able to generate illusions that affect all five human senses." (http://www.geocities.com/brenni_au/SersiProfile.html) When Sersi casts illusions she just doesn't make visual illusions she makes complete sensory experiences.

It is effectively saying that because someone didn't specify that Sue Storm's force fields were invisible everyone can see them.But Sersi isn't the one who made them invisible, Zatanna is.

Sersi made a illusory duplicate of the team and Zatanna was the one to make the original team "elbisivni", and it didn't specify anything other than a visual indetectability. I have no doubt that Zatanna could do that, but you didn't specify it.

Sue's force fields are invisible, in much the same way that the giants Kilowog created are green. They always are, whether the wielder wants them to be or not.

But what you are proposing is a very different thing. Making someone invisible without specifying, vs. saying that they are invisible to the five senses is another.

Mostly, I don't want to give participants the freedom to rationalize around things after they've been done and someone points out a loophole or weakness in a strategy.

So for the vote of me and Rags, we talked it over and decided that our vote will be cast based on this being a visual invisibility alone.

[Mike Smash!]

Just so you know Tommy, we're still undecided and all the invisibility thing decides is whether Ultra Man takes out Mantis in the first round or not.

(Though I can't imagine why anyone would target Mantis as a serious threat in round one)

[Tommy]

But Sersi isn't the one who made them invisible, Zatanna is.

Sersi made a illusory duplicate of the team and Zatanna was the one to make the original team "elbisivni", and it didn't specify anything other than a visual indetectability. I have no doubt that Zatanna could do that, but you didn't specify it.

Sue's force fields are invisible, in much the same way that the giants Kilowog created are green. They always are, whether the wielder wants them to be or not.

But what you are proposing is a very different thing. Making someone invisible without specifying, vs. saying that they are invisible to the five senses is another.

Mostly, I don't want to give participants the freedom to rationalize around things after they've been done and someone points out a loophole or weakness in a strategy.

So for the vote of me and Rags, we talked it over and decided that our vote will be cast based on this being a visual invisibility alone.

I think we are talking about two different things here. In my strategy Zatanna makes them invisible while Sersi made an illusion team. I never said the team was invisible to the five senses, if they were, they couldn't communicate with each other at all so no one could help out when someone else was in trouble. It was why I specifically chose "Invisible" as opposed to "undetectable." (And believe me I thought about that one for a long time). However I knew from the moment I chose Sersi in the draft exactly how useful her illusions were. That was why I only had them appear a few feet in front of my team. They would overlap (at least initially) over my real team, only being visible would make them targets while my real team could be sneaky.

[Mike Smash!]

Well, is the illusionary team doing anything during all of this, because we don't hear anything about them after she creates the illusion. Not to mention that she's trying to maintain the illusion while picking a telepathic fight with Rachel Grey.

I think that the invisible team moving around would give themselves away by sound and other factors that people like Ultra Man would catch on to right away.

[Mikl C]

I VOTED FOR TOMMY!!!!!!!! yesIdid

[Froggy]

But Ultra Man doesn't try to speedblitz Zatanna. He targets Mantis (who would go down quickly) and Plastic Man who's very hard to hurt (unless Ultra Man targeted him with freezing breath or heat vision, which his doesn't specify)

I meant for warbird, who's suppose to wrap them all up

[Tommy]

Well, is the illusionary team doing anything during all of this, because we don't hear anything about them after she creates the illusion. Not to mention that she's trying to maintain the illusion while picking a telepathic fight with Rachel Grey.

I think that the invisible team moving around would give themselves away by sound and other factors that people like Ultra Man would catch on to right away.

They are mostly there just to give a speed blitz something to hit. I find it doubtful that if Ultraman is trying to take out my team via super speed right as the fight starts he is going to be listening for invisible opponents instead of attacking the vary visible ones right in front of him. And since they affect all his senses I don't think he will immediately realize his mistake.

[Kara Zor El]

I found both these strats underwhelming and vague. No real use of imagination or drama.

come on guys. you can do better than that.

[Mike Smash!]

I found both these strats underwhelming and vague. No real use of imagination or drama.

come on guys. you can do better than that.If you wanted to inject imagination and drama to the proceding you could, y'know, unquit.

[rondre sleazde]

As I said before the Strat is weak yes, I know. The server kept missing up and I just made something up as I went.

Yes, mags will not strain because HE held up the asteroid M ship and take away X-men blue and Gold, X-factor and X-force's powers while talking to them and he wasn't struggling. This happened in the Fatal Attractions X-over. And Mags is a multi tasker.

[Jessica Drew]

As I said before the Strat is weak yes, I know. The server kept missing up and I just made something up as I went.

Yes, mags will not strain because HE held up the asteroid M ship and take away X-men blue and Gold, X-factor and X-force's powers while talking to them and he wasn't struggling. This happened in the Fatal Attractions X-over. And Mags is a multi tasker.

Good point; I'd forgotten that.

Okay. Considering Magneto's ability to multi-task difficult feats, the Key's psi-attack of whomever, combined with Rachel's mind-controlling Zatanna (who has to be distracted by the bridge), I'm going with Dipset here.