NBA 2007 Offseason [Archive] - Comic Book Resources Forums

Brian Cronin

06-15-2007, 02:00 AM

Congrats to the World Champion San Antonio Spurs!

Now what will everyone do this offseason?

Will Phoenix break up their team or make another go at the title with this squad?

Will Chicago trade up in the draft? Will Boston trade down?

Will Atlanta seriously take Brandon Wright with the #3 pick in the draft?

Will the Lakers give Kobe some All-Star help?

Will the Knicks make a move?

Will Rashard Lewis stay in Seattle?

Will Vince Carter stay in New Jersey?

Will the Blazers get a small forward?

Will the Nets get a power forward?

Will the Heat get a point guard?

What will happen?!?!

Let's find out!

-Brian

moebius

06-15-2007, 02:19 AM

Kobe wants out of LA, rumors say he's out. He doesn't seem the type to stay loyal to one team.

The only logical place for him is the Bulls. They won't trade him to a West team. He has to go to a contender. The Knicks could get him, but that would just make them the 2006-2007 Lakers...good enough to make the playoffs, not good enough to advance far. Celtics would be an interesting landing spot...trade that worthless 5 pick and cap space. But then the Celtics have no true PG.

But Kobe to the Bulls would make them a lock to make the Finals out of the East until LeBron gets help. The only issue is would Kobe enjoy living directly in MJ's shadow for the next five years?

moebius

06-15-2007, 02:22 AM

I think I said the Mavs would win the title this year. Figured they'd be hungry from last year. Little did I know they were chronic choke artists.

I'm going with the Suns for '08. Quite possibly without Amare, but with KG.

matrix

06-15-2007, 03:41 AM

i'm actually picking the Bulls to win the east Next year unless Clevelands gets some offensive help. I actually hope the suns DON"t trade Marion. Cal me soft but he just does alot for the suns that you just can't replace. Now i can see them trading Diaw. My question is who's going to stay and go for the spurs?

Deathstroke

06-15-2007, 04:00 AM

Ahh the offseason...another few months of agony as the Celtics do nothing that will improve the club.

matrix

06-15-2007, 04:35 AM

Ahh the offseason...another few months of agony as the Celtics do nothing that will improve the club. see 07' Lakers offseason

Valmore

06-15-2007, 04:43 AM

Now what will everyone do this offseason?

Watch baseball. Then football.

Will Phoenix break up their team or make another go at the title with this squad?

They'll give it one more go, though they may make a trade.

Will Chicago trade up in the draft? Will Boston trade down?

Does it matter? If Chicago trades up it breaks apart the team they already have and probably make them worse. If boston trades down, they'll pick some loser like Rajon Rondo and still suck.

Will Atlanta seriously take Brandon Wright with the #3 pick in the draft?

No, they'll take Mike Conley, Jr. instead. Or that chinese center. Who knows?

Will the Lakers give Kobe some All-Star help?

Not really.

Will the Knicks make a move?

Yes, they'll trade away any tall guys they have for short ones.

Will Rashard Lewis stay in Seattle?

No, not that it matter because the Supersonics aren't staying in Seattle.

Will Vince Carter stay in New Jersey?

It depends on if he's feeling lazy enough to not demand a trade.

Will the Blazers get a small forward?

No, they'll get Greg Oden.

Will the Nets get a power forward?

Nope.

Will the Heat get a point guard?

Nope.

What will happen?!?!

A whole lot of overhyped trades that will lead to... the Spurs finally repeating.

Scott Evil

06-15-2007, 10:25 AM

Congrats to the World Champion San Antonio Spurs
Big ups the those guys and their fans. Congrats on a great season, post-season, and post-post-season celebrations! Easy on the cervesas, mi compadres.. salud!

Now what will everyone do this offseason?
Everyone as in fans? I'm gonna catch up on my TPB's, not a fan of baseball- so more focus on MMA & Pro-Wrasslin' and bitching and complaining about all the new summer movies! What else will a nerd do? Oh yea- plan my wedding (I guess..)

Will Phoenix break up their team or make another go at the title with this squad?
Damn- didn't think of that.. at this point, they've yet to break past the Western Conference Final, so I think change in personnel is #1. Definitely the case of 'If its BROKE- go FIX it'.

Will the Lakers give Kobe some All-Star help?
Prolly not- just got word from my local radio station that Bynum & Brown are staying (sigh...) BUT Mihm is rehabing well apparently. I've still got some hope for that guy.. very little- but its still there..

Will Rashard Lewis stay in Seattle?
Can't see where else he'd go as a good fit. I like him too... is Ray staying put?

Will Vince Carter stay in New Jersey?
Hmmm... I'm going for 'no'.

What will happen?!?!
Some disappointments, some surprises, Kobe complains, Shaq makes checks his knees can't cash, and I still hate Mark Cuban. Can't wait!

Let's find out!
Yes, LET'S!

and If I may add;
What happens to LaBron?
I was sad for the guy, esp. during the post game int.- he seems to shoulder the ENTIRE responsibility of the loss.. That’s a lot for a dude. Silver lining? Big Aristotle/Big Champion started off as "Swept in the Finals" too. So you never know how the guy will bounce back.

matrix

06-15-2007, 11:07 AM

and If I may add;
What happens to LaBron?
I was sad for the guy, esp. during the post game int.- he seems to shoulder the ENTIRE responsibility of the loss.. That’s a lot for a dude. Silver lining? Big Aristotle/Big Champion started off as "Swept in the Finals" too. So you never know how the guy will bounce back.
i like How Tim says Leborn handles everything with pose and really that says alot about him but at some point i really wish someone else would say to Lebron " let me share your burden" I honestly hope it's Gibson because i think he can.

Scott Evil

06-15-2007, 11:38 AM

i like How Tim says Leborn handles everything with pose and really that says alot about him but at some point i really wish someone else would say to Lebron " let me share your burden" I honestly hope it's Gibson because i think he can.

Agreed w/ Gibson shouldering the weight. How 'bout Gooden picking up the slack? Not a big Cavs fan, but I thought he had an upside a while back.

matrix

06-15-2007, 11:57 AM

Agreed w/ Gibson shouldering the weight. How 'bout Gooden picking up the slack? Not a big Cavs fan, but I thought he had an upside a while back. he has alot of upside but needs more experience. He reminds me of Antonio Daniels playing under Avery Johnson. he's got talent but he just needs someone to teach him the ropes.

Rob Allen

06-15-2007, 12:34 PM

Will the Blazers get a small forward?

No, they'll get Greg Oden.

We sure will! And a small forward too, just wait and see.

The Oden-Durant debate is constant among sports fans here. The Blazers have a web site where fans can vote, and a billboard on the highway that says "Oden - honk once; Durant - honk twice". But the fans don't make the decision. Last year, the fans really wanted the team to draft Adam Morrison, but they took Brandon Roy and LaMarcus Aldridge, and the fans ended up happy.

Personally, I think they should take Oden, and the indications that leak out of Blazer Central seem to be leaning that way. There are also rumors that they're trying to trade for another top-ten pick, and a lot of trade rumors involving Zach Randolph and Jarrett Jack. If they do trade Jack, I expect them to sign Steve Blake, who still lives in this area.

Next week Oden and Durant will both be in town to work out, eat dinner and converse with the Blazer brain trust. If they really haven't decided yet, I'm sure they'll have made up their minds by next Saturday.

Deathstroke

06-15-2007, 01:09 PM

see 07' Lakers offseason

Yeah, but that's the Lakers, and remember, as a Celtics fan, L.A. Sucks. :evilsmile

moebius

06-15-2007, 01:09 PM

So a week ago I suggest to an ESPN writer suggesting that the way to get rid of tanking is 1) and elimination tournament to make the bottom four lottery teams play one another for the right to the 1st-4th picks; or 2) to take the bottom 8 teams, then decide their lottery order by their record against one another.

Yesterday I hear the first suggestion on the Dan Patrick show as a suggestion he gives to Stern. Then I hear it from Michael Wilbon.

Coincidence...I think not. Somebody call my agent! Somebody call my lawyer!

Ryan K

06-15-2007, 01:19 PM

My question is who's going to stay and go for the spurs?

Tim stays. Tony stays. Manu stays. Bowen stays. White stays. Horry wants to play one more year, so he'll probably stay. Those are pretty much guaranteed.

Oberto's a restricted FA. But I imagine the Spurs will give him a decent contract and he'll stay. Bonner's restricted too, I have no idea what they're gonna do with him. He didn't play that well after his injury and the Spurs could easily let him go. But they seemed to like the idea of him taking Horry's spot.

I imagine Finley will opt to stay. It's his choice and things turned out as well here as could be imagined.

Spurs will probably again try to trade Brent Barry for someone more athletic and who can be groomed as a defensive perimeter player. I'm sure Maggette's name will come up again. Jackie Butler is almost certainly on the trading block (unless he somehow impressed management in practice during the playoffs. Elson, played well at times, but he could be had for the right price. If they can trade Beno, they will. Probably in a package deal. The Spurs don't want him, and he gets interest from other teams.

I'd bet the Spurs resign Vaughan to remain as the team's 3rd PG for another year and then try to draft a point guard in the draft. With the 28 and 33 picks I wouldn't be surprised to see them try to draft up into the 17-20 range. They may try and dangle the rights to Scola out there too (who they seem to have no interest in bringing in).

Melvin Ely's a free agent (unrestricted) and will likely be offered more money than the Spurs would be willing to pay.

I can't imagine the Spurs will get rid of James White. His upside is significant and next year's contract is at the team's option for minimal money. He played great at the end of the season and actually cracked the Top 10 Rookie scoring average in his limited games. I expect he'll see more minutes next year.

As for the overseas guys, Ian Mahini has an outside chance of making the team next year if he plays well in the summer league. But I've heard numerous times he needs one more year over there. I'd love them to sign Scola (and maybe they will if Oberto gets a huge offer).

That leads us to who the Spurs will try and get.

In free agency, I believe they will only have the mid-level exception. So that limits them. Andres Nocioni has been a pipe dream around here for awhile. The idea being that even though he's a restricted free agent, Chicago will have to let him go with all the Ben Wallace $$$ tying their hands and that perhaps Nocioni would play for the MLE for a chance to play NBA ball with his countrymen. The Spurs will probably also send out (some long shot) feelers to Rashard Lewis (who the pusued last time he was a FA), Jason Kapono, Luke Walton, Earl Boykins (if he opts out), Sarunas Jasikevicius (who Pop Liked), and some others.

Plus we'll see what they can do with trade bait like Butler, Beno, Barry, and Scola.

Should be interesting.

jessecuster3

06-15-2007, 01:28 PM

Chicago is talking about dealing Chris Duhon, if it gets us a big man who can score I'm all for it.

As long as we keep Deng, Gordon, Thomas and Heinrich we will be tough.

Punchy

06-16-2007, 06:31 AM

But Kobe to the Bulls would make them a lock to make the Finals out of the East until LeBron gets help.
I really don't see how you can say that. Do you know how much Kobe makes? Do you know how much talent they'd have to trade away to get him.

Granted, the East is weak and all but I don't think we could call a Bulls team with Kobe a lock until we see what players are around him.

Word is that the Pacers offered Jermaine O'Neal and Troy Murphy for Lamar Odom, Kwame Brown, and Andrew Bynum. The Lakers said no friggin' way.

moebius

06-16-2007, 07:04 AM

I really don't see how you can say that. Do you know how much Kobe makes? Do you know how much talent they'd have to trade away to get him.

...

Word is that the Pacers offered Jermaine O'Neal and Troy Murphy for Lamar Odom, Kwame Brown, and Andrew Bynum. The Lakers said no friggin' way.

The best trade is probably Deng, Gordon, an expiring contract and a Pick for Kobe.

On the Pacers trade, apparently the Lakers didn't want to give up Bynum and Odom.

Slappy san

06-16-2007, 08:36 AM

Joe D traded Carlos Delfino to Toronto for two second round pick! The draft of '03 is a disaster. It's not even about WHO they didn't draft. It's about the organization not putting the players they did draft in a position to succeed.

I wish Delfino good luck. I hope his confidence isn't busted. He should do better in a open court game when he doesn't have to stand in one corner or run to the opposite corner when Rip starts cutting! He's a slasher not a spot up shooter after all.

*sighs*

I hope the rumors of Grant coming back here are true.

Valmore

06-16-2007, 10:47 AM

I really don't see how you can say that. Do you know how much Kobe makes? Do you know how much talent they'd have to trade away to get him.

Granted, the East is weak and all but I don't think we could call a Bulls team with Kobe a lock until we see what players are around him.

Word is that the Pacers offered Jermaine O'Neal and Troy Murphy for Lamar Odom, Kwame Brown, and Andrew Bynum. The Lakers said no friggin' way.

Well no wonder, that's a crappy trade. A promising young center, an expiring contract and a decent second-tier star for an unspectacular forward and an all-star forward-center who's had problems staying on the floor the past few years. Heck, the proposed Kwame Brown and something else for Marcus Camby trade has much more merit than that.

Kobe to the Bulls doesn't improve Chicago, because to even up the trade, Chicago will have to give up a buttload of talent. Giving up Deng and Gordon, the Bulls top two scorers last season, along with a contract and a pick totally depletes Chicago's offense, and you'd be asking Kobe to pick up the slack for the two leaving players AND Ben Wallace, and there's not really any other scorers on the team to help him pick up that slack. In essence, you're changing Chicago to a team that will have to *completely* rely on defense. Which they already were last season, only now you're cutting their offensive potential to the marrow.

Kobe's not going anywhere.

moebius

06-17-2007, 12:24 AM

News out of Spain (???) today was that Buss went to meet Kobe in Spain, and the gist of the conversation was: "trade me."

Curioser and curioser.

Brian Cronin

06-17-2007, 12:30 AM

Valmore

06-17-2007, 06:12 AM

Kobe is so lame.

Since he will only accept a trade to the Suns, Bulls and Knicks, you have to figure Chicago will get him - but for what?

Anything less than Deng, the #5 pick and Tyrus Thomas should not be enough, I say.

Each of those teams presents problems. Really, the only team that could possibly take on Kobe without completely hurting their short-term potential is the Suns, as they have enough back-up talent to make up for whoever they lose in the trade process. However, I can't see the Lakers trading their stud player to a division rival. It'd be like the Yankees trading Derek Jeter to Boston or Toronto. So the Suns are out.

The Bulls and Knicks would be operating under the false notion that they'd get a bump like the Heat did after getting Shaq from the Lakers. The problem there is that, while Kobe is an awesome player, he's not a league-dominating center like Shaq was. Trading for Bryant means breaking apart their established teams dramatically while asking Kobe to make up for multiple players lost, and in Chicago's case, along with the derth of offense their center is.

Kobe's best bet would be to go to a completely rebuilding team where they have cap space to take him on and be able to still build around him. But he doesn't want to do that.

I just don't see Kobe getting moved.

moebius

06-17-2007, 06:17 AM

Kobe is so lame.

Since he will only accept a trade to the Suns, Bulls and Knicks, you have to figure Chicago will get him - but for what?

Anything less than Deng, the #5 pick and Tyrus Thomas should not be enough, I say.

-Brian

The #5 pick belongs to the Celtics, unless you mean another #5 pick.

Well, the more insistent he gets, the more likely the Bulls are to get him for 60 cents on the dollar, which means more expiring contracts, a pick and Deng or Gordon, but not both.

The very idea of this trade is exciting to me, because it would immediately give the East a Conference Finals calibre team every year, and put one of the true superstars in the Eastern Conference (even if Kobe is the Barry Bonds of the NBA, with less ceiling and a smaller head).

Valmore

06-17-2007, 06:27 AM

The #5 pick belongs to the Celtics, unless you mean another #5 pick.

Well, the more insistent he gets, the more likely the Bulls are to get him for 60 cents on the dollar, which means more expiring contracts, a pick and Deng or Gordon, but not both.

The very idea of this trade is exciting to me, because it would immediately give the East a Conference Finals calibre team every year, and put one of the true superstars in the Eastern Conference (even if Kobe is the Barry Bonds of the NBA, with less ceiling and a smaller head).

If he were to go to Chicago, we'd get Kobe-versus-LeBron hyped matchups. Which is a positive. I'm not certain he'd put the Bulls over the hump into the Conference Finals, though if the Bulls wait long enough they may get a decent enough deal that it doesn't hurt them as much.

moebius

06-17-2007, 06:44 AM

If he were to go to Chicago, we'd get Kobe-versus-LeBron hyped matchups. Which is a positive. I'm not certain he'd put the Bulls over the hump into the Conference Finals, though if the Bulls wait long enough they may get a decent enough deal that it doesn't hurt them as much.

The Bulls totally have the upper hand here.

-Kobe's not going to the West. The Lakers would never let him. Even if he did, the Bulls are still one of the four best teams in the East, and the Pistons and Heat are declining.
-Kobe's not going to a small-market Eastern team.
-Kobe's not going to the Knicks or Celtics, who are both a mess. If the C's landed Oden or Durant, I would have answered this differently, and I could have seen Pierce and contracts for Kobe.
-The Bulls are good enough and young enough that they can wait another year or two before they're a Conference Finals lock, or they can get pull the trigger and get there now.

Aubergine~!

06-17-2007, 06:49 AM

Anyone have any idea what the Jazz are/should be planning? They've got a very good (and young) nucleus, but I don't really see it being good enough to get any championships, unless Deron and Boozer keep getting better, and AK gets back to his old level.

Punchy

06-17-2007, 08:48 AM

Well, the more insistent he gets, the more likely the Bulls are to get him for 60 cents on the dollar,
That's the thing about the NBA, every trade has to be for one dollar on the dollar.

Slappy san

06-17-2007, 09:09 AM

That's the thing about the NBA, every trade has to be for one dollar on the dollar.

I took it to mean talent...not dollars. As in it could be combinations of expiring contracts, drafts picks and Thomas and Deng. As opposed to a trade like Deng, Thomas, GORDON , the draft pick and someone's first born.:D

I could be wrong but that's how I read it.

frankiedetroit

06-17-2007, 11:09 AM

If Kobe insists upon this trade, I pray the Lakers deal him to the Knicks. Can you imagine the Prima Donna's fragile psyche dealing with the New York media? Ask Randy Johnson and A-Rod about that. Give Dave Winfield a call. This place is a beast that eats up any superstar who gets traded here and doesn't bring home a ring.

Punchy

06-17-2007, 11:11 AM

Could be.

Actually losing Kobe would really suck but if the Lakers did get expiring contracts they would be the biggest players in free agency after this next season. They are still paying Brian Grant and Kwame's contract will be up amongst others.

Not that being a big player in free agency means much these days, but I don't think it would take long to get the team back in to the playoffs.

Valmore

06-17-2007, 12:59 PM

I took it to mean talent...not dollars. As in it could be combinations of expiring contracts, drafts picks and Thomas and Deng. As opposed to a trade like Deng, Thomas, GORDON , the draft pick and someone's first born.:D

I could be wrong but that's how I read it.

Yeah, it depends on how far over the salary cap teams are, if both teams are dealing over the cap, I believe they have to break even or within a certain percentage close to being even.

That doesn't mean the Bulls have to dump off all their best player to get Kobe, especially if the Lakers get desperate enough to move him. Basically, the Bulls just have to give off the attitude of, "You want to dump Kobe much more than we want to take him." It puts them in the power position and allows them a little more leeway in who they get to send to the Lakers. They'll still have to give up one of their best players, but they might be able to get Kobe for much less than the Lakers would like to get in intanglible terms of usefulness and talent of players.

All things considered, I could see the Lakers dealing with Boston, as the Celtics have a bunch of young talent to dole out with normal-sized contracts as well as a #5 pick in a relatively deep draft. Package up a deal of Paul Pierce-Tony Allen-Ryan Gomes and swap draft picks and it could work. However, Kobe probably doesn't want to go anywhere near Boston, which would hinder things.

moebius

06-17-2007, 01:37 PM

Ryan K

06-17-2007, 07:01 PM

You know what rule the NBA needs to change? They need to just allow 15 players on the active roster. Nearly NBA team keeps three guys on the reserve list, and they did make a step in the right direction in not calling it the injured list anymore (since everyone was just making up injuries to carry reserves).

5 positions, 3 players at each position, 15 players. Why has this not been done yet? What possibly could be the reasoning for arbitrarilly making 3 healthy guys sit in suits on the bench. They're unable to get in the game to get garbage time, they're not able to be introduced in the NBA Finals, most fans don't know who they are. The guys practice everyday with the rest of the team but aren't allowed to put on uniforms for most of the games for no good reason.

I realize if you're the 13-15th player down the bench you're not gonna get recognition or playing time most of the time anyway, but the whole thing is just so arbitrary.

moebius

06-19-2007, 11:13 PM

The latest trade news:

KG to Boston? Maybe Kevin McHale still has some Celtic pride. KG to Boston for Jeffreson, Telfair, Ratliff the pick and another guy. Since KG is a free agent next summer and definitely gone, and the T-Wolves are going to stink next year no matter what, this makes some sense.

Everyone loves a three-way? Gilbert Arenas, picks and expiring contracts to LA to give the Lakers their money player, Kobe to the Bulls and Gordon or Deng, picks, expiring contracts and one more player to the Wizards, who have a lower threshold for what they need to get from the Bulls to feel like they've improved.

Punchy

06-20-2007, 12:50 AM

All I'm hearing about here is Kobe trade rumors; Bulls, Knicks, Suns, Mavs, etc. The Arenas one is the only one that makes sense but I don't see it happening. I've actually heard that folks in Chicago are pretty indifferent about Kobe.

One thing for sure he definately is not helping his cause by stirring up all of this shit. The Lakers are losing leverage by him telling everyone how much he wants out. If they can't find an adequate deal they'll keep him, he is under contract after all.

Valmore

06-20-2007, 04:23 AM

KG to Boston? Maybe Kevin McHale still has some Celtic pride. KG to Boston for Jeffreson, Telfair, Ratliff the pick and another guy. Since KG is a free agent next summer and definitely gone, and the T-Wolves are going to stink next year no matter what, this makes some sense.

This makes no sense unless the Celtics get to swap picks with Minnesota. If the C's are giving Minnesota the 5 pick without getting the 7 pick in return, it's a flamingly stupid trade, since Al Jefferson is young and getting better while KG will be gone after one lousy season in Boston that won't even guarantee a return to the playoffs.

moebius

06-20-2007, 05:05 AM

This makes no sense unless the Celtics get to swap picks with Minnesota. If the C's are giving Minnesota the 5 pick without getting the 7 pick in return, it's a flamingly stupid trade, since Al Jefferson is young and getting better while KG will be gone after one lousy season in Boston that won't even guarantee a return to the playoffs.

Would you be surprised if the Danny Ainge braintrust DIDN'T screw this up?

streator

06-20-2007, 06:29 AM

the cavs need to pick up someone. ideally a point guard.

i'd like them to keep varejao and possibly pavolic.

hughes (in my mind) should go but i don't see that happening.

i know gilbert (the owner) is willing to pay pretty much anything to win so i wouldn't say picking up someone like billups or even garnett is that impossible.

i think the cavs need to work a lot on their shooting over the off-season, especially foul shots.

metr0man

06-20-2007, 08:54 AM

I'd laugh if KG ended up in Boston. From horribly managed organization straight to another. But at least he'd have Paul Pierce I guess.

Valmore

06-20-2007, 12:14 PM

Would you be surprised if the Danny Ainge braintrust DIDN'T screw this up?

Danny Ainge will screw up. Not sure if this is the screwup, but he will screw up.

Ryan K

06-20-2007, 12:28 PM

How have Danny Ainge and Kevin McHale not been fired yet?

Valmore

06-20-2007, 12:31 PM

How have Danny Ainge and Kevin McHale not been fired yet?

Celtic luck?

Beats the heck out of me. You'd think McHale would have been booted after the whole Joe Smith debacle in 1998, and yet there he is...

Brian Cronin

06-20-2007, 04:03 PM

I take the KG trade in a heartbeat if I'm Boston.

You gotta be willing to part with a lot to get someone like KG.

These trades, the team getting the big man almost ALWAYS win.

-Brian

Scott Evil

06-20-2007, 04:06 PM

Kobe to Jerry Buss: "I want to be traded"

Jeeez... take it to the guy writing your checks why don't ya? Hmm.. its Wednesday, that means he wants to be traded. Tomorrow? Who know?!

Valmore

06-20-2007, 06:07 PM

I take the KG trade in a heartbeat if I'm Boston.

You gotta be willing to part with a lot to get someone like KG.

These trades, the team getting the big man almost ALWAYS win.

No way. Not for an over-the-hill power forward with only one year on his contract that Boston won't be able to resign after the season anyway. Way too much for that. Give up two young projects, one who's showing fruits, and a #5 pick in a very deep draft? Hell no.

It's a terrible trade for Boston.

Brian Cronin

06-20-2007, 11:39 PM

Punchy

06-21-2007, 12:17 AM

KG might be an old 31 but he's in no way over the hill. He had a great statistical season and lead the league in rebounds this year.

Valmore

06-21-2007, 04:29 AM

Over the hill?

Dude's gonna be 31 years old next year!

KG at 35 > Al Jefferson at whatever age he'll be at the same time. The rest of the players are basically neglible, unless the #5 pick turns out to be awesome, and "deep draft" basically only means that you can get good players in late in the first round, which is good, no doubt, but no one who is going to change the face of a franchise.

Not like KG.

KG and Pierce together would give Boston a reason to give a crap about the team, and it would instantly make the Celtics a contender in the East.

The ONLY reason I'd think twice about the deal is if KG is unwilling to extend his contract with the Celtics. I wouldn't pay a King's Ransom for a year of KG.

So if he won't do that, then sure, don't get him.

And therein lies the problem - I have no reason to belive Boston has a chance of resigning KG after the season. The likely scenario is we give up a slew of stuff (the three things that'd rather not give up in Jefferson, Green and a #5 pick, the other two losers can go anywhere for all I care) for one year of goodness, not greatness, where the Celtics get the seventh seed in the East, lose, and watch KG sign with the Lakers and Kobe, which is what he really wants anyway. Leaving the Celtics worse off in 2009.

It's not a good deal.

Deathstroke

06-21-2007, 05:26 PM

Well now that Garnett has officially put the kibosh on the trade, NOW WHAT for the Celtics?

Comic_Mobsta

06-21-2007, 05:38 PM

Well now that Garnett has officially put the kibosh on the trade, NOW WHAT for the Celtics?i can't prove this but i think KG's wife just don't wanna move.

Valmore

06-21-2007, 05:45 PM

Well now that Garnett has officially put the kibosh on the trade, NOW WHAT for the Celtics?

Shawn Marion's on the block. Not sure what the C's could give up for him, though.

The C's could concievably pick Mike Conley with the five spot and trade him over to the Blazers for LaMarcus Aldridge or Jamaal Magliore.

Or just take whatever big man is available at #5 and work some sort of lame trade that doesn't help or hurt them or the other team.

Deathstroke

06-21-2007, 07:37 PM

Conley is going to end up with the Hawks at #3.

moebius

06-21-2007, 08:30 PM

Well now that Garnett has officially put the kibosh on the trade, NOW WHAT for the Celtics?

Suck until the next Super Draft.

Aubergine~!

06-21-2007, 11:18 PM

Suck until the next Super Draft.

They seem to have horrible luck at super drafts, actually.

Brian Cronin

06-21-2007, 11:21 PM

Conley is such a weird pick. He's SO not the third best player in the draft (not even close, really), but with all the prominent point guards out there, it seems like a point guard is just so darn valuable, the Hawks would almost HAVE to take him.

If I was the Hawks, though, I'd go "best player at #3," then either take whoever is left at #11 (Acie Law or that other guy with the long name) or try to trade the pick to Toronto for a re-signed Jose Calderon.

-Brian

Valmore

06-22-2007, 04:20 AM

Conley is going to end up with the Hawks at #3.

They seem sold on him, but I'm with Brian with this:

Conley is such a weird pick. He's SO not the third best player in the draft (not even close, really), but with all the prominent point guards out there, it seems like a point guard is just so darn valuable, the Hawks would almost HAVE to take him.

If I was the Hawks, though, I'd go "best player at #3," then either take whoever is left at #11 (Acie Law or that other guy with the long name) or try to trade the pick to Toronto for a re-signed Jose Calderon.

Conley is SO not the third best player in the draft, especially since Atlanta could still use help in the paint more than they need a short point guard.

If Atlanta were smart, they'd take Yi or Horford at #3 and whatever point guard was left at #11.

moebius

06-22-2007, 04:38 AM

If Atlanta were smart, they'd take Yi or Horford at #3 and whatever point guard was left at #11.

I'm not sure that "smart" and "take Yi" should be used as part of the same argument.

On the KG front: He's said no way would he to the Celtics. So much for that rumor.

Valmore

06-22-2007, 04:40 AM

I'm not sure that "smart" and "take Yi" should be used as part of the same argument.

On the KG front: He's said no way would he to the Celtics. So much for that rumor.

Well, it can't be as bad as taking Sheldon Williams. Yi's stock seems pretty high. It's better than taking an overhyped point guard.

And Garnett wants to play with Kobe.

moebius

06-22-2007, 05:56 AM

And Garnett wants to play with Kobe.

This is the only way Kobe suits up as a Laker next year...if the Wolves or Suns give him All-Star help in exchange for cap space.

Don't really see either happening...much more likely that Kobe could force the issue and force a trade through continued bad behavior.

Punchy

06-22-2007, 06:45 AM

Aubergine~!

06-22-2007, 07:21 AM

I think what everyone is missing with Kobe flapping his gums so much is that the Lakers have all of the leverage here. Not only is Kobe under contract but his contract has a no-trade clause and opt-out after next season two things that would have to be re-negotiated for a trade. I just don't see how they trade him.

Think he can waive the no-trade clause. That aside, unless the Lakers can land all-star help, it's rebuilding time.

I think KG wants to go to the Suns and should go to the Suns.

For who? The Suns would be insane to give up Amare.

Rob Allen

06-22-2007, 05:10 PM

The C's could concievably pick Mike Conley with the five spot and trade him over to the Blazers for LaMarcus Aldridge or Jamaal Magliore.

Aldridge isn't going anywhere.

And Magliore is an unrestricted free agent. If you want him, make him an offer.

Portland is going to have a hell of a party on Draft Day!

Valmore

06-22-2007, 05:37 PM

Aldridge isn't going anywhere.

And Magliore is an unrestricted free agent. If you want him, make him an offer.

Portland is going to have a hell of a party on Draft Day!

And the NBA is going to have a funeral, because the Eastern Confernce will fall that much further behind the West. You thought this year's Finals were dull? Next year will be worse. Ratings are going to be in the toilet.

And yeah, I got it wrong. The early rumor was Portland was hoping Conley would fall to #5 and Boston would take him and make a trade for Zach Randolph. Doesn't seem likely, though, unless Atlanta changes their mind and Boston moves Al Jefferson for someone, because Randolph and Jefferson have essentially the same skills set.

Punchy

06-22-2007, 10:55 PM

For who? The Suns would be insane to give up Amare.
Shawn Marion, James Jones, a two first round draft picks (the Suns have an extra from the Hawks).

smartalek

06-23-2007, 12:15 AM

How about Boris Diaw and Marion for KG? Or is that too much?

Valmore

06-23-2007, 05:33 AM

How about Boris Diaw and Marion for KG? Or is that too much?

Tough to say. Punchy's might come a little closer, since it includes a pick. Minnesota's going to want quite a bit for KG. But, they may not be able to wait.

BYC

06-23-2007, 07:41 AM

I highly doubt anybody is going anywhere. There's just not enough players and picks to try and get KG or Kobe. Everybody knows the Wolves are screwed in players and picks, so there's no reason to help them out. Doubly-so with the Lakers. Being the Lakers, they absolutely need a marquee star to sell the tickets to all the Hollywood hotshots, and there's only like maybe 4 guys in the NBA that can sell those tickets (Kobe, LeBron, Wade, Iverson).

I think it's much more likely that the Lakers try and throw another all-star/near all-star to Kobe and try and appease him. Vince Carter, Gerald Wallace, Chris Webber, Desmond Mason, and Mike Bibby seem to be the head of the free agent list. I think Kobe might be okay with Bibby, but nobody else is good enough to help him win the title right NOW. They'll improve, but not to the level to win the championship.

Here is the list of free agents for 2007: http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2654216

Some interesting names on there, btw.

TitoJones

06-23-2007, 08:04 AM

I think it's much more likely that the Lakers try and throw another all-star/near all-star to Kobe and try and appease him. Vince Carter, Gerald Wallace, Chris Webber, Desmond Mason, and Mike Bibby seem to be the head of the free agent list. I think Kobe might be okay with Bibby, but nobody else is good enough to help him win the title right NOW. They'll improve, but not to the level to win the championship.

Here is the list of free agents for 2007: http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2654216

Some interesting names on there, btw.

The problem is that signing anyone of those guys will probably put the Lakers in the Luxary Tax, and even though he's making tons of money, Buss doesn't want no part of the luxary tax.

BYC

06-23-2007, 09:13 AM

The problem is that signing anyone of those guys will probably put the Lakers in the Luxary Tax, and even though he's making tons of money, Buss doesn't want no part of the luxary tax.
I certainly understand that. What's gonna happen is there's gonna be a trade to dump salary, and then sign a free agent that might sate Kobe, and then ask him to be patient for one more year.

Will it work? Hell no.

Valmore

06-23-2007, 01:50 PM

I certainly understand that. What's gonna happen is there's gonna be a trade to dump salary, and then sign a free agent that might sate Kobe, and then ask him to be patient for one more year.

Will it work? Hell no.

The Punchmookster already linked an article to a rumor about a possible Kwame Brown-for-Marcus Camby trade to the Nuggets that hasn't been killed yet. It would give the Lakers some rebounding and defense while giving the Nuggets eventual cap space. It would be a start, but certainly something that would need to be one-in-a-series to satiate Kobe.

Punchy is also right in that the Lakers have the leverage. Kobe's got a no-trade clause, but he's not willing to wave it and he's trying to dictate where he goes. The Lakers aren't going to trade him to Phoenix, the Knicks don't have anything to offer and the Bulls aren't going to break apart the team just to get Kobe. If Kobe sits out, he doesn't get paid and he's still under the Lakers contract for next so many years. So unless Kobe is willing to play ball and drop his no-trade clause, he's not likely he's going to be moved.

Ryan K

06-23-2007, 08:24 PM

For whatever reason, I want the Spurs to draft Glen Davis. Yeah, hell probably be a bust, but I know who he is (and I never know college players), so it would be cool if the Spurs drafted somebody I've heard of. He's supposed to drop to the second round and if the Spurs could scopp him up with #33 I'd be ecstatic. Besides, there's a decent chance he becomes a servicable role player. And Jackie Butler needs somebody to run laps with.

For a 1st round pick I'm kinda hoping for Morris Almond. I've seen him go to the Spurs in a couple mock drafts and he worked out for them. I like what I've seen.

Punchy

06-24-2007, 10:16 AM

I think that the Lakers would rather have Kobe sit out next season or be a malcontent rather than trade him, and you know what? I strongly agree.

Your first thought is "trade him now while you can get value before he opts out" but what kind of value are you going to get for his salary? A bunch of bad contracts for scrubs (see Shaq trade). If they don't trade him he remains the biggest story in the NBA during the season and when he opts out the Lakers have so much cap room cleared out (not only his contract but Kwame's, Brian Grant's, and others) that you can sign whoever the hell you want.

Valmore

06-24-2007, 12:03 PM

This is a case where a player's no-trade clause is completely hurting his chance of being moved. Usually one gets one of those so that, in case the team WANTS to trade you, they can't send you somewhere you don't want to go. However, it doesn't work so well when the player tries to force a team's hand into trading him where he wants to go, especially when the team doesn't want to trade him. Kobe's not forcing anyone's hand by insisting on a trade to Phoenix, New York or Chicago, because the Lakers clearly don't want to trade him in the first place, and if they eventually do trade him they want maximum value, which is understandable because Kobe's a stud with plenty of good years remaining (whereas Shaq was getting older, fatter and was on the decline).

If Kobe would waive his no-trade clause, he'd have a better shot of being moved, as there are teams who'd give up the value to get him - they're just not teams he'd rather go to. But it's the only way he's getting out of L.A., unless the Lakers get desperate and give him up to Chicago for less. Which would be stupid.

Punchy

06-25-2007, 02:08 PM

please oh please oh please oh please
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2916217&campaign=rss&source=ESPNHeadlines

moebius

06-25-2007, 02:09 PM

please oh please oh please oh please
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2916217&campaign=rss&source=ESPNHeadlines

That would certainly kill two birds with one stone.

Buried Alien

06-25-2007, 04:01 PM

please oh please oh please oh please
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2916217&campaign=rss&source=ESPNHeadlines

Here's hoping, but I'm not getting too excited until Kevin Garnett's name actually appears on a Lakers' player contract, and Kobe is all-smiles watching KG sign it.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

Brian Cronin

06-25-2007, 06:37 PM

I dunno about that trade. Either Minnesota is getting too little or, if Al Jefferson is involved, Boston is giving too much.

So it really doesn't work.

I mean, give me a break, #5 and 19, Sebastian Telfair, Gerald Green and Theo Ratliff?

That's a joke.

Meanwhile, though, the #5 pick, Telfair, Green, Ratliff and JEFFERSON is way too much for Jermaine O'Neal. Al Jefferson is already a better offensive player than O'Neal, younger, cheaper and healthier!

So I guess we'll just have to see if Odom, Bynum and #19 is enough for KG.

I find that hard to believe.

-Brian

Valmore

06-25-2007, 07:58 PM

Thank goodness someone had the sense to kick Ainge in the nads and pull out of that crappy deal. All we'd get is Jermaine "Can't Stay Healthy" O'Neal while giving up oodles of stuff including the 5 pick and two prospects?

Geez, they'd be better off keeping the #5 and taking a big guy while trading Telfair for a basket of balls and a couple jock straps.

Brian Cronin

06-25-2007, 08:07 PM

#5, Green, Telfair and Ratliff is a good deal for one of the better power forwards in the league.

-Brian

Valmore

06-25-2007, 08:18 PM

#5, Green, Telfair and Ratliff is a good deal for one of the better power forwards in the league.

-Brian

I could live with that (though I'm not thrilled about giving up a pick and not getting one back) for Jermaine O'Neal, however I doubt that the trade wouldn't have gone forward without Al Jefferson going somewhere, and that would have been way too much for O'Neal.

Brian Cronin

06-25-2007, 08:20 PM

Oh, okay.

That's totally fair.

I thought you were knocking the sans-Jefferson deal.

-Brian

Froggy

06-25-2007, 08:21 PM

I'm still not sure KG is coming to LA, but did anyone hear about this supposed moment kobe dissed will bynum? saying "SHIP HIM OUT!"

Punchy

06-25-2007, 10:42 PM

yeah, some chumps caught Kobe saying it in a mall parking lot, they recorded it on their phone

cbjones

06-26-2007, 03:30 PM

Who should the Blazers take with the first draft pick? I've been saying Oden for months, but I'm starting to be won over by the Durant crowd. The Blazers passed on Michael Jordan way back when. Can they pass of a guy who might have a similar impact?

Rob Allen

06-26-2007, 04:39 PM

If I had to choose, it would be Oden. Greg Oden looks like the latest in a long line of dominant centers in the NBA. There's only been one player like Jordan in the history of the NBA; I'm not willing to bet that Durant is the second one.

That said, I trust the new GM, Kevin Pritchard, and the rest of the Blazer brain trust. Whichever way they decide, I'll go along for the ride.

Welcome to CBR, cb! Nice to see another Blazer fan here.

Ryan K

06-26-2007, 05:38 PM

Every NBA championship team since 1991 has had an All Star Center or Michael Jordan. Take Oden.

Valmore

06-26-2007, 06:19 PM

It's not even a question - quality, NBA-ready centers don't come out every year, or even every other year. Or even every 5 years. You can get a scorer like Durant just about every year. Durant's good, but he's not Jordan. Probably not even Kobe or T-Mac.

The Blazers have to pick Oden.

Punchy

06-26-2007, 08:44 PM

so much for that ...

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2917781

Valmore

06-27-2007, 04:36 AM

What is it with Minnesota wanting the friggin' world for Kevin Garnett? Yeah, he's great, but not THAT great. The 5 pick, Jefferson and everything else is way too much for just Shawn Marion.

moebius

06-27-2007, 05:06 AM

What is it with Minnesota wanting the friggin' world for Kevin Garnett? Yeah, he's great, but not THAT great. The 5 pick, Jefferson and everything else is way too much for just Shawn Marion.

He's the highest paid player in the league, one of the five best players, and the face of the franchise. Players like this get traded once a decade (the last one was Shaq to LA...maybe also Shaq to Miami).

It's going to be hard no matter what just to find the pieces to make the salary end of that work.

Punchy

06-27-2007, 07:26 AM

wasn't Shaq a free agent when he went to LA?

And yeah, Garnett is still one of the best players in the leauge. My question is why the hell doesn Phoenix want to get rid of Marion so badly for?

Evil Sneak

06-27-2007, 08:05 AM

wasn't Shaq a free agent when he went to LA?

And yeah, Garnett is still one of the best players in the leauge. My question is why the hell doesn Phoenix want to get rid of Marion so badly for?

He and Amare DO NOT get along very well, and there's growing tension in the locker room. Not to make Marion out as a cancer (he's not) but he's getting a little tired of being the third wheel and he's probably feeling a little underappreciated.

And honestly I see his point.

He's the BEST player on the Suns roster, but Nash gets all the accolades and MVP talk. Amare isn't half the rebounder/defender/post player that Marion is, but he's the first option when Phoenix wants to go low. He's always the subject of trade rumors, but if you take Marion off the Phoenix teams the past couple years and they're no better than the Nuggets.

Don't get me wrong, Nash is a fantastic player and he's a big part of what makes Phoenix successful, but Marion is just as big (if not more important) a part of it, yet no one ever talks about him unless it's where's he getting traded.

===================

Why are the Celtics in such a hurry to ship out Jefferson. The guy is gonna be a monster. A line-up of:

PG - Rondo / West
SG - Green / Szczberiak
SF - Pierce / Gomes
PF - Noah / Horford
-C - Jefferson / Kendricks

Ship out the expiring contracts and Green for a veteran who can shoot from the perimeter. OR maybe sign someone like Luke Walton or Jason Kapono to shoot open 3s and occasionally be a playmaker. This team could easily compete in the Eastern Conference (well if they had a decent coach).

Seriously, Boston doesn't need to blow things up, just stay healthy and get a coach.

moebius

06-27-2007, 08:58 AM

wasn't Shaq a free agent when he went to LA?

And yeah, Garnett is still one of the best players in the leauge. My question is why the hell doesn Phoenix want to get rid of Marion so badly for?

No, you're right...that makes Shaq to Miami the only super-duper trade I can remember since I started watching the NBA 15 years ago. Tracy McGrady might be two, but even then were people talking about him like they were talking about Garnett?

Valmore

06-27-2007, 11:31 AM

Why are the Celtics in such a hurry to ship out Jefferson. The guy is gonna be a monster. A line-up of:

PG - Rondo / West
SG - Green / Szczberiak
SF - Pierce / Gomes
PF - Noah / Horford
-C - Jefferson / Kendricks

Ship out the expiring contracts and Green for a veteran who can shoot from the perimeter. OR maybe sign someone like Luke Walton or Jason Kapono to shoot open 3s and occasionally be a playmaker. This team could easily compete in the Eastern Conference (well if they had a decent coach).

Seriously, Boston doesn't need to blow things up, just stay healthy and get a coach.

Boston doesn't want to give up Al Jefferson if they don't have to. Especially not if they have to give up Jefferson, Gerald Green, the #5 pick, Theo "Expiring" Ratliff and Sebastian Telfair to get only Shawn Marion (which was the last trade rumor). That's why these 3-and-4-team trade talks with Boston keep falling apart - the teams want too much for the one player Boston would get in return.

Ryan K

06-27-2007, 02:27 PM

bestweekever.tv/2007/06/27/bwe-sports-the-perfect-garnett-megadeal/

Think a multi-team blockbuster deal involving Kevin Garnett is nothing more than a pipe dream? Well think again, you rational human. Here’s how the Garnett trade can– nay, must–go down:

The Timberwolves deal KG to the Lakers for Lamar Odom, Kwame Brown, a 1st round pick, and a gold plaque with the word “POTENTIAL” on it. The T’Wolves get the cap space they so desperately need, while the Lakers will field a starting lineup consisting only of Garnett, Kobe Bryant, and Chris Mihm or something, which will be good enough to get them the #5 seed in the West next year, be labelled as “a team you don’t want to play in the first round,” and get knocked out of the playoffs in 6 games.

Kevin McHale then takes advantage of the T’Wolves’ payroll flexibility and sends Randy Foye and their own #1 draft pick to the Celtics for Paul Pierce and some of the banners in the Garden, which will be spraypainted blue and raised to the rafters in Minnesota. The deal goes through quickly, as Pierce is already holding packed bags and leaning out the door of his house when he receives the news.

Danny AingeCeltics exec Danny Ainge, who suffers from the Dana Carvey “Clean Slate” disease, wakes up the following morning and forgets that he’s trying to rebuild, decides Boston is one marquee player away from contending in the weak Atlantic Division, and sends Wally Szczerbiak and Rajon Rondo to the Knicks for Stephon Marbury. The Celtics also offer to throw in their first round pick, but Isaiah Thomas declines.

The Knicks then turn around and trade every single first round pick they own for the rest of eternity to the NBA, and the NBA sends them Juwon Howard, Ray Allen, Mike Bibby, Tim Thomas, and Jalen Rose. The rest of the teams in the NBA take turns drafting in the Knicks’ spot in all future drafts, and The Knicks donate their 2007-08 luxury tax money to charity, which ends up being enough money to create a time machine, go back in time, and prevent Hurricane Katrina from ever happening.

The Phoenix Suns, now free of Jalen Rose’s contract, trade Shawn Marion, Kurt Thomas , and some of coach Mike D’Antoni’s charisma to the Lakers for Kevin Garnett, who will play for both the Suns and the Lakers, flying back and forth between stadiums each night. When the two teams play on the same night, or against each other, the teams’ two coaches will play rock-paper-scissors to vie for Garnett’s rights. Best out of three, of course.

Eleven months later, the Spurs win the NBA Title.

BYC

06-27-2007, 02:36 PM

As I have said before, I highly doubt any blockbuster trades. Everybody wants too much and gives up too little. Hence all the inaction.

Pinnacle

06-27-2007, 03:47 PM

Why are the Celtics in such a hurry to ship out Jefferson. The guy is gonna be a monster. A line-up of:

PG - Rondo / West
SG - Green / Szczberiak
SF - Pierce / Gomes
PF - Noah / Horford
-C - Jefferson / Kendricks

Ship out the expiring contracts and Green for a veteran who can shoot from the perimeter. OR maybe sign someone like Luke Walton or Jason Kapono to shoot open 3s and occasionally be a playmaker. This team could easily compete in the Eastern Conference (well if they had a decent coach).

Seriously, Boston doesn't need to blow things up, just stay healthy and get a coach.

I don't want the Celtics to blow things up either but I don't see a scenario where they have the roster that you put up. They can only get one of the PF combo of Noah/Horford and Horford may be gone before they get to pick.

Valmore

06-27-2007, 03:57 PM

I don't want the Celtics to blow things up either but I don't see a scenario where they have the roster that you put up. They can only get one of the PF combo of Noah/Horford and Horford may be gone before they get to pick.

Yeah, his roster is confusing, as there's no way they land both Noah and Horford, unless they trade and get another top pick (extremely unlikely) and Horford is gone by 5, as Memphis will take him if Atlanta goes with Conley.

Ryan K

06-27-2007, 04:03 PM

Valmore

06-27-2007, 04:29 PM

Unless Atlanta take Jianlan(which ESPN was saying is very possible now).

Sure, but then Memphis still takes Horford at #4.

Evil Sneak

06-27-2007, 05:02 PM

Yeah, his roster is confusing, as there's no way they land both Noah and Horford, unless they trade and get another top pick (extremely unlikely) and Horford is gone by 5, as Memphis will take him if Atlanta goes with Conley.

I meant Noah or Horford it just got a little wonky in the translation. I'd prefer Noah.

By no mean are the Celtics loaded, but they have better talent than most of the Eastern Conference and a #5 pick in a LOADED draft can only make them better.

But I've got the feeling that the Celtics are gonna screw it up.

As for my Lakers...

When Hibbert when back to school, I sorta gave up on this draft. Unless Al Thornton slides, I don't see LA getting any help with this draft.

Ryan K

06-27-2007, 05:55 PM

Sure, but then Memphis still takes Horford at #4.

I think if Atlanta takes Jianlan, Memphis takes Conley still, and Horford drops into Boston's lap.

Valmore

06-27-2007, 06:05 PM

I think if Atlanta takes Jianlan, Memphis takes Conley still, and Horford drops into Boston's lap.

Why is Mike Conley even being discussed as a top five pick? He's not even better than Acie Law at his own position. I'm not sure where the love comes from, but without Greg Oden, Conley is just another player.

Punchy

06-27-2007, 09:53 PM

Why is Mike Conley even being discussed as a top five pick? He's not even better than Acie Law at his own position. I'm not sure where the love comes from, but without Greg Oden, Conley is just another player.
Well most think Conley is the best PG in the draft and Memphis really needs a PG.

And there's a good big man in Memphis, Conley could do quite well there.

Evil Sneak

06-28-2007, 07:57 AM

Why is Mike Conley even being discussed as a top five pick? He's not even better than Acie Law at his own position. I'm not sure where the love comes from, but without Greg Oden, Conley is just another player.

Acie Earl IV (http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/player/profile?playerId=15169) is a better scorer than Mike Conley Jr. (http://sports-ak.espn.go.com/ncb/player/profile?playerId=31544) but that's it.

Conley had more assist, fewer turnovers (in more games played), a much better A/T ratio, more steals, more blocks, his Pure Point Stat was only .01 less than Law's despite scoring Law's strong point.

Added to the fact that Conley Jr. was a freshman and Earl IV a senior. Conley Jr. blows Earl IV out of the water.

Ryan K

06-28-2007, 10:14 AM

Can someone explain to me why Phoenix would want to trade Amare Stoudemire to get Kevin Garnett? A 24 year old First Team All NBA Player for a 31 year old Third Team All NBA player?

Can someone also explain to me why Atlanta now seems to be the team that's holding this deal up? The no. 3 and 11 picks for Amare Stoudemire is a steal. If I'm reading between the lines correctly, its because some in ownership are holding it up because some in ownership like the Chinese marketing opportunities available to them if they keep the #3 pick and draft Yi Jianlian. Amare Stoudemire makes you a second round playoff team in the East.

Valmore

06-28-2007, 11:58 AM

Acie Earl IV (http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/player/profile?playerId=15169) is a better scorer than Mike Conley Jr. (http://sports-ak.espn.go.com/ncb/player/profile?playerId=31544) but that's it.

Conley had more assist, fewer turnovers (in more games played), a much better A/T ratio, more steals, more blocks, his Pure Point Stat was only .01 less than Law's despite scoring Law's strong point.

Added to the fact that Conley Jr. was a freshman and Earl IV a senior. Conley Jr. blows Earl IV out of the water.

Please, Conley Jr. is nothing without Greg Oden. Name for me another player at Texas Tech anywhere even near on par with Oden.

Exactly. Conley benefitted by playing with the future No. 1 pick.

Conley Jr. is a future bench warmer. He's not an explosive scorer, he's an above-average passer. He's just another guy. Without Oden, he's still at Ohio State.

Evil Sneak

06-28-2007, 01:13 PM

Please, Conley Jr. is nothing without Greg Oden. Name for me another player at Texas Tech anywhere even near on par with Oden.

Exactly. Conley benefitted by playing with the future No. 1 pick.

Conley Jr. is a future bench warmer. He's not an explosive scorer, he's an above-average passer. He's just another guy. Without Oden, he's still at Ohio State.

Val, I know you hate the Buckeyes, but c'mon.

OSU vs G'town Oden played all of 20 minutes. but the just another guy dropped 15/5/6 with 1 turnover shot 7 of 12 to lead the Bucks to victory.

OSU vs Memphis Oden plays 24 minutes, Conley 40 minutes, dropped 19/4/2 shot 90% from the FT to ice the game.

OSU vs Tenn - Oden plays 18 minutes to Conley's 34 minutes, MCJr drops 17/7/6 including sinking the game winning FT.

The kid is a baller!

Punchy

06-28-2007, 01:20 PM

Val by that logic a player can't be any good if he has a great big man on his team?

You're reall reaching there. Unless you want to tell me that Magic Johnson would be nothing without Kareem.

Rob Allen

06-28-2007, 04:17 PM

Can someone also explain to me why Atlanta now seems to be the team that's holding this deal up?
I heard on the radio that Amare is holding the deal up - he doesn't want to go to Atlanta.

Rob Allen

06-28-2007, 04:44 PM

It's official - Oden to the Blazers and Durant to the Sonics. I'm listening to the Blazers' draft party - the Rose Garden arena is open and several thousand people are there celebrating.

Valmore

06-28-2007, 06:03 PM

Val by that logic a player can't be any good if he has a great big man on his team?

You're reall reaching there. Unless you want to tell me that Magic Johnson would be nothing without Kareem.

That's not what I'm saying. What I'm saying is clearly Mike Conley, Jr. rode Greg Oden's coattails. Magic Johnson did no such thing, as he dominated at Michigan State. Conley may have had a couple good games, but he's not the best point guard in the draft.

Conley isn't explosive enough, and at 6'1" he's a liability against taller players. He's not anywhere near the talent of Chris Paul, who makes up for his lack of height.

And really, I'm in a pissy mood now. I hate Danny Ainge. Yeah, let's trade away our pick and a decent team-type player and a huge contract (well, okay... Wally can go) for a 32-year old guard who missed almost half a season last year and pair him off with our 30-year old guard who missed almost half a season and STILL have no inside presence besides Al Jefferson.

Geez, why hasn't Ainge been fired yet?

SUPERECWFAN1

06-28-2007, 06:08 PM

You mean the Celtics got Kevin Garnett ? Damn.....I'm shocked at that. I don't even follow the NBA and thats a name guy.

Valmore

06-28-2007, 06:23 PM

You mean the Celtics got Kevin Garnett ? Damn.....I'm shocked at that. I don't even follow the NBA and thats a name guy.

No, I'd have been HAPPY if they had managed to get Garnett for the guy we picked at #5, Wally's Terrible Contract and Delonte West.

Instead, we got frickin' Ray Allen.

Hooray.

SUPERECWFAN1

06-28-2007, 06:32 PM

No, I'd have been HAPPY if they had managed to get Garnett for the guy we picked at #5, Wally's Terrible Contract and Delonte West.

Instead, we got frickin' Ray Allen.

Hooray.

Damn I don't even follow the NBA and I can see the frustration across this message board.

Punchy

06-28-2007, 06:56 PM

That's not what I'm saying. What I'm saying is clearly Mike Conley, Jr. rode Greg Oden's coattails. Magic Johnson did no such thing, as he dominated at Michigan State. Conley may have had a couple good games, but he's not the best point guard in the draft.

Conley isn't explosive enough, and at 6'1" he's a liability against taller players. He's not anywhere near the talent of Chris Paul, who makes up for his lack of height.

And really, I'm in a pissy mood now. I hate Danny Ainge. Yeah, let's trade away our pick and a decent team-type player and a huge contract (well, okay... Wally can go) for a 32-year old guard who missed almost half a season last year and pair him off with our 30-year old guard who missed almost half a season and STILL have no inside presence besides Al Jefferson.

Geez, why hasn't Ainge been fired yet?

Well, I guess you can just say that if you want but you really don't have anything to back it up with. Time will tell.

And I'm not so sure why you'd be so upset with the Ray Allen trade. I mean its obvious Garnett, Marion, and Stoudamire aren't going anywhere (particularly Boston) why not make a move? If you want to talk injuries you should be thankful that Wally is gone.

And if you think the trade is bad for Boston, its AWFUL for Seattle. They now have no stars and no All-Stars on their team. Makes no sense.

Punchy

06-28-2007, 06:58 PM

And good trade for the Knicks getting Randolph. Why would the Blazers trade him?

Valmore

06-28-2007, 07:01 PM

And good trade for the Knicks getting Randolph. Why would the Blazers trade him?

Who did the Blazers get in return? Because with Oden at center, they can move LaMarcus Aldridge to PF and they have Roy at SG-SF, so Randolph becomes a big contract without a starting position. But they needed a guard, and the Knicks had plenty to spare.

Ew, I see the Knicks gave up Channing Frye, who helps the front court out. But the Blazers also had to take on Steve Francis. Portland needs to hope he gets over being a headcase and learns how to not turn the ball over and not take bad shots.

I'm mixed on this trade. Getting rid of Francis is fine, but Frye? I suppose Randolph is better than Frye...

Valmore

06-28-2007, 07:17 PM

Well, I guess you can just say that if you want but you really don't have anything to back it up with. Time will tell.

While I obviously don't have access to the conbines and stuff, from the games I saw of Ohio State (which were more than a few) he didn't strike me as that awesome of a player. I don't think he's a bad player, I just don't think he's the best point guard in the draft or the 4th best player. Of course, I could clearly be wrong.

And I'm not so sure why you'd be so upset with the Ray Allen trade. I mean its obvious Garnett, Marion, and Stoudamire aren't going anywhere (particularly Boston) why not make a move? If you want to talk injuries you should be thankful that Wally is gone.

And if you think the trade is bad for Boston, its AWFUL for Seattle. They now have no stars and no All-Stars on their team. Makes no sense.

Because it really doesn't address Boston's needs, which is a front court presence and defense. They could have drafted Joakim Noah and gotten both of those. Instead, they added another guard, who is very good but on the decline, but doesn't play defense very well. Plus, I like Delonte West, as he's a team player.

I am happy Wally's contract is gone - I'll grant you that.

Seattle has their new face in Kevin Durant and they appear to be starting over. Not that it matters, as they'll probably be in Oklahoma City in the 2008-09 season.

Aubergine~!

06-28-2007, 08:06 PM

Seattle's made some very good moves this draft, imo.

And Portland will be downright scary in a few years. Don't like their getting Francis much, but the young talent they have is amazing, and imo McRoberts is a steal.

Edit: Oops, McRoberts got traded. Never mind.

Ryan K

06-28-2007, 09:20 PM

I'm quite pleased with the Spurs' selection of Tiago Splitter. Seems a lot of people thought he was a lottery pick if it weren't for his buyout clause and a couple even thought he was a lottry pick with it.

For the Spurs to get him at 28 and considering they didn't really want to add a rookie this year, great draft. Next year Splitter's buyout will only cost the Spurs 500,000 and they get a 7'0 defensive minded center with lottery talent. Bonus: if the Spurs finally bring in Luis Scola, Splitter will have a teammate next year since Scola and he play for the same team currently.

Punchy

06-29-2007, 01:14 AM

The more I think about the Blazers/Knicks trade the more I like it for the Blazers. Francis is going to be good there for the next couple of years or however long he has on his contract since the team is so young. And in getting rid of Randolph they've gotten rid of any trace of the old "Jailblazers".
Because it really doesn't address Boston's needs, which is a front court presence and defense. They could have drafted Joakim Noah and gotten both of those. Instead, they added another guard, who is very good but on the decline, but doesn't play defense very well.
If you want to look at the bright side look at it like this: the East was won by a team with one truly great player. Maybe that's all you need in the East. Two good players? I bet the team can improve by 20 wins.

Brian Cronin

06-29-2007, 01:42 AM

The Knicks side of the deal is iffy, as their best player last year was a power forward, so they trade for....a power forward?!

Bizarre.

Then again, so long as they don't trade David Lee, I can't complain too much. But because they traded for a guy who plays Lee's position, drafted a guy who plays Lee's position, and acquired another "rookie" last year who can play Lee's position...well, it doesn't look like Lee will be long for New York, CONSARNIT!!

That being said, while the trade is iffy on the Knicks' side, it is downright lame on Portland's side.

Look at all the names we were tossing around that Portland should try to get for Randolph, and they settled for Channing freakin' Frye?!?! Was the market for Randolph truly THAT bad?!

If so - wow.

-Brian

moebius

06-29-2007, 04:42 AM

Hey, it looks like the Knicks actually made some smart moves during the draft! Randolph is a 20-10, and he loads them at the Forward position. Eddie Curry, Zach Randolph and Marbury isn't a bad nucleus.

Also, the best day for the draft has to go to Seattle. Durant, the 5 pick AND resigning Rashard Lewis? Good, good deal.

On the other hand, man the Celtics are dumb. They end up with two pure scorers, no pick and no PG.

Valmore

06-29-2007, 04:43 AM

Zach Randolph is clearly the better player between him and Channing Frye, but he is more expensive as well. And if they're so eager to create harmony in the locker room, why trade for a guy who has a history of being a league cancer in Steve Francis?

I'm not quite sure why Randolph was moved, aside from cap space.

Valmore

06-29-2007, 04:45 AM

On the other hand, man the Celtics are dumb. They end up with two pure scorers, no pick and no PG.

Hey hey hey ... they got the man who'll clearly hold up the buffet line on road trips.

Deathstroke

06-29-2007, 05:06 AM

No, I'd have been HAPPY if they had managed to get Garnett for the guy we picked at #5, Wally's Terrible Contract and Delonte West.

Instead, we got frickin' Ray Allen.

Hooray.

At least we've got someone with some acting skills now.

Deathstroke

06-29-2007, 05:11 AM

Well, I guess you can just say that if you want but you really don't have anything to back it up with. Time will tell.

And I'm not so sure why you'd be so upset with the Ray Allen trade. I mean its obvious Garnett, Marion, and Stoudamire aren't going anywhere (particularly Boston) why not make a move? If you want to talk injuries you should be thankful that Wally is gone.

And if you think the trade is bad for Boston, its AWFUL for Seattle. They now have no stars and no All-Stars on their team. Makes no sense.

The trade isn't HORRIBLE for Boston, but it's still not good for what we got.

We've got a guard coming off an injury plagued season. While he can shoot and probably look at 20-25 points a game if he stays healthy. However, we still don't have a big man to compliment Jefferson. We NEED a big man who can intimidate and score.

Granted getting rid of Wally is good because he's always hurt and reportedly a locker room lawyer. I didn't really care for West, so I'm not upset about his departure.

I just don't see what the hell Ainge is thinking. This will NOT improve the team much if at all.

Deathstroke

06-29-2007, 05:14 AM

If you want to look at the bright side look at it like this: the East was won by a team with one truly great player. Maybe that's all you need in the East. Two good players? I bet the team can improve by 20 wins.

The Celtics become 20 wins better than last season? Yeah, and by the way, I'm going to become Miles Davis and Thelonius Monk rolled into one and also realize I'm the second coming of Jesus H. Christ, and a porn star too.

Deathstroke

06-29-2007, 05:16 AM

Hey, it looks like the Knicks actually made some smart moves during the draft! Randolph is a 20-10, and he loads them at the Forward position. Eddie Curry, Zach Randolph and Marbury isn't a bad nucleus.

On the other hand, man the Celtics are dumb. They end up with two pure scorers, no pick and no PG.

Except Marbury is a me-first-last-and always player. He's a cancer.

Don't be dogging the Celtics, after all Punchy said we'll improve by 20 wins next season. :D

Deathstroke

06-29-2007, 05:17 AM

Hey hey hey ... they got the man who'll clearly hold up the buffet line on road trips.

I assume you mean Big Baby from LSU?

metr0man

06-29-2007, 06:36 AM

it only took a FEW YEARS, but Isiah finally made a good move. :lol:

I think the Celtics will do fine with their trade, Pierce was demanding a veteren, he got one.
The Sonics I'm unsure about. Durant and Allen would have made a good combo. I don't know much about Green (? the guy they got from the Celtics pick) though.

jessecuster3

06-29-2007, 07:09 AM

Punchy

06-29-2007, 08:04 AM

The Celtics become 20 wins better than last season? Yeah, and by the way, I'm going to become Miles Davis and Thelonius Monk rolled into one and also realize I'm the second coming of Jesus H. Christ, and a porn star too.

Okay, just wait.

Scott Evil

06-29-2007, 09:40 AM

And good trade for the Knicks getting Randolph. Why would the Blazers trade him?
I don't know- I know Francis is a headcase- but then again I didn't think Alien-Face Cassell was gonna help the Clips. So maybe Francis (1st: Grows Up, and then...) can play that vet role for the Sonics. Or not.
...Also, the best day for the draft has to go to Seattle. Durant, the 5 pick AND resigning Rashard Lewis? Good, good deal...

Agreed. Seattle got away w/ some really good moves. Not too sure yet w/ the Ray Allen trade though. Oh well- as Western Conference guy- I fear for my Lakers once again. Damn them all..

And WTF is up w/ trading Jason Richardson? For a rook? I thought that out of the West, Pheonix & Dallas had to make moves- not GS! C'mon! You made me believe! I know its Davis's team and all- anyone care to help me make sense of this?

moebius

06-29-2007, 01:32 PM

I'm not quite sure why Randolph was moved, aside from cap space.

I hear it's to give Lamarcas Aldridge more playing time.

Brian Cronin

06-29-2007, 02:05 PM

Yeah, I have no problem with Randolph being moved. I just have issues with what they got in return.

Francis/Frye doesn't seem like enough to me.

Remember when we were talking, like, Antawn Jamison or Richard Jefferson?

And they ended up with Channing Frye?!?!

Lame!

-Brian

Valmore

06-29-2007, 02:15 PM

I'm a little unhappy with the Bulls today. Noah is just going to be another Ben Wallace when what they really need is a big man who can score down low. I love his energy but I think they were planning on Hawes all the way and when they saw Noah available, they jumped.

I wanted Joakim Noah at #5 - he's exactly the player the Celtics needed - a high-energy big man who can rebound, play defense and score a little on the side. Gads, I hate Danny Ainge... Anyway, no, he's not really what the Bulls needed. He'll be a good player, but the pick didn't address the Bulls' needs.

I hear it's to give Lamarcas Aldridge more playing time.

Well yeah, there's that, too. Pairing up Aldridge and Oden is a nice move. Still, they could have done that without trading Randolph. They certainly didn't get top value for their player, since the word is they'll buy out Francis' contract, meaning they really wanted Channing Frye.

Ryan K

06-29-2007, 03:19 PM

My thoughts on the trades:

The Zack Randolph trade.

If Frye and Francis was the best deal they could get, good for them. They needed to get rid of Randolph. A frontcourt rotation of Frye, Oden, and Aldridge is very solid. And who knows, maybe Francis will play more like Houston Steve Francis than Orlando or NY Steve Francis.

The Ray Allen trade.

What a dumb move by Boston. Seattle gives up Allen, and aging star, for the #5 pick, a 2 solid rotation players. Yeah, Wally's contract sucks, but Ainge shouldn't be praised just cause he dumped that off on someone in a bad trade.

The Jason Richardson trade.

Jury's still out. My first thought is what the %$#& is GS thinking. They had a good thing going and you'd think they'd at least return that core of guys and see what they can do for a healthy season. Richardson's contract sucks, but you know how good he is. Wright's gonna take time and very well may not become anywhere near as good as Richardson.

Ryan K

06-29-2007, 03:22 PM

Well this explains the Jason Richardson trade and makes the Warriors look smart as hell:

http://www.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/46796/20070629/warriors_also_acquire_$10_million_exception/

Warriors Also Acquire $10 Million Exception
June 29, 2007 - 12:03 pm
San Francisco Chronicle -
Along with Brandan Wright, the Warriors also acquired a $10 million trade exception from the Bobcats, they now become a major player in this summer's trade market. The Warriors now have the ability to absorb contracts up to $10 million while offering a team instant financial relief.

This could of course lead to another deal.

Chris Mullin acknowledged speaking to the Timberwolves this week, presumably about Kevin Garnett.

Rob Allen

06-29-2007, 03:47 PM

Zach Randolph was moved for several reasons:

- he's a knucklehead who can't stay out of trouble for long
- he has an enormous contract with four years left
- he's a defensive liability
- he needs a slow, halfcourt offense and a lot of minutes and touches
- the team has another PF that they want to develop

On the positive side for the Knicks, he is a gifted scorer and rebounder, and has shown signs of increasing maturity, even occasional leadership.

Portland now has a pretty good group of bigs: two veterans, Joel Przybilla and Raef LaFrentz, mentoring youngsters Greg Oden, LaMarcus Aldridge and Channing Frye. And assuming that we re-sign Travis Outlaw, he had some success playing PF last year.

In a couple of years, the Blazers could be "America's team".

Valmore

06-29-2007, 04:13 PM

If things pan out for Portland the way they appear to be, they just won't be the Jail Blazers anymore, they'll be serious contenders for the NBA title. That team looks completely frightening in about 2-3 years.

Scott Evil

06-29-2007, 04:15 PM

Well this explains the Jason Richardson trade and makes the Warriors look smart as hell:

http://www.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/46796/20070629/warriors_also_acquire_$10_million_exception/

Damn. I take back the 'WTF is GS thinking!?' to - 'Holy crap- the Pacific is LOADED again'. Good lookin' out Mr. Kirk.

Valmore

06-29-2007, 04:18 PM

Damn. I take back the 'WTF is GS thinking!?' to - 'Holy crap- the Pacific is LOADED again'. Good lookin' out Mr. Kirk.

But who could Golden State possibly offer Minnesota for Kevin Garnett is the question.

Scott Evil

06-29-2007, 04:21 PM

But who could Golden State possibly offer Minnesota for Kevin Garnett is the question.

Besides KG, which other eligible free agents are there? I know Billups, Webber, and Luke Walton (you'd better stay put, you MO'FO!) off the top of my head. Anyone else?

Valmore

06-29-2007, 04:41 PM

Besides KG, which other eligible free agents are there? I know Billups, Webber, and Luke Walton (you'd better stay put, you MO'FO!) off the top of my head. Anyone else?

Has KG officially opted out yet, or can he even opt out this year? I thought his opt out was next season. If so, he's still a Timberwolf, which means you have trade for him.

Punchy

06-29-2007, 06:57 PM

Yeah, KG isn't a free agent.

Earl Boykins is though.

Brian Cronin

06-29-2007, 10:21 PM

moebius

06-30-2007, 08:30 AM

\
Agreed. Seattle got away w/ some really good moves. Not too sure yet w/ the Ray Allen trade though.

Think of it this way: Seattle traded Ray Allen for Rashard Lewis. It was the only way they could afford to re-sign him.

moebius

06-30-2007, 08:33 AM

The other thing draft day did was it took a lot of options off the table for KG and Kobe. Now you can't use Boston as a trading partner (they've give up most of what they're willing to give up), and no one has picks to give.

Now anything for Kobe or KG just got more expensive in immediate talent, it's harder to get other teams involved, and the pick you made has to be exactly what your trade partner would have wanted.

Draft Day Winners:
-Seattle
-Portland
-Atlanta

In that order.

Draft Day Losers:
-Boston (Big surprise)

Punchy

06-30-2007, 09:02 AM

I wouldn't mind if the Lakers explored a trade of Kobe FOR KG.

Valmore

06-30-2007, 09:24 AM

The other thing draft day did was it took a lot of options off the table for KG and Kobe. Now you can't use Boston as a trading partner (they've give up most of what they're willing to give up), and no one has picks to give.

Well, they have picks in next year's draft, but that's... next year. And the strength of that draft is undetermined, so teams probably aren't ready to give up those picks yet, until they determine if the draft will be weak, which won't be for months.

Boston gave up the one thing that would have made a blockbuster head-to-head deal happen, which was Wally's crappy contract, which was so high and would have helped even out things when trading for a high contract. Now they'd have to give up Pierce's or Allen's. At this point, I'm not opposed to giving up either. And now the only stuff left that's remotely interesting are Gerald Green and Al Jefferson, who they don't really want to give up.

Now anything for Kobe or KG just got more expensive in immediate talent, it's harder to get other teams involved, and the pick you made has to be exactly what your trade partner would have wanted.

Draft Day Winners:
-Seattle
-Portland
-Atlanta

In that order.

Draft Day Losers:
-Boston (Big surprise)

Atlanta made out AWESOMELY. They got a prototypical power forward in Al Horford, who would have been #1 on any year that Oden and Durant weren't in the mix, and an excellent point guard in Acie Law, who'll help take some of the ball-handling pressure off of Joe Johnson. They did EXACTLY what they needed to do in this draft. They'll be a playoff team in the 2008-09 season. Bet.

Portland got the player everyone wanted, and made the right pick. Durant will be great, but you can't pass up on an NBA-center, you just can't. While the trade for Frye and Francis was a little uneven, I don't think it'll ultimately hurt them.

The other reason I don't like the Ray Allen trade? Seattle must not be happy with how Allen's progress from the ankle injury is coming. A supposed "stud" shooter for oft-injured Wally and his crappy contract, a decent but not spectacular team player in Delonte West and an unproven pick (albeit from a deep draft) ... this reeks of the Celtics taking a player who's probably not going to be the "stud" he once was ever again.

Which makes the C's the huge losers in this draft. No first-round pick when there was available players who could help. A point guard in the second round (how many failing point guards do we need to go through) and then Big Buffet Davis with Seattle's #2 pick, who is waaay closer to being the next Oliver Miller than the next Charles Barkley. Davis was dumb, and lost a cool million or so by skipping last year's draft. He got exposed this season without Tyrus Thomas around, got injured, and well...

I hate Danny Ainge.

Punchy

06-30-2007, 11:46 AM

I hate Danny Ainge.
I'm starting to hate Larry Bird too. And we all know what a bang-up job Mchale is doing.

I think we all recognize the trend here ...

literally exaggerated

06-30-2007, 12:31 PM

The Nets take Sean Williams. In theory, it could be a fantastic pick. Williams is arguably the best athlete in the draft, he's a lanky 6'10" and his shotblocking timing is astonishing. He can run the floor and finish. The Nets have been looking for a guy who can do what he can do for a long time. Krstic, Jefferson and Carter provide more than enough scoring punch in the halfcourt, no need to run plays for the guy. Let him play goalkeeper and live off garbage points and alley-oops on the break. He's got no offensive moves and isn't all that great a rebounder, but he's still a step up from Collins in both those categories.

OTOH, the dude is a huge stoner. I think its an overrated flaw compared to, say, stealing a whole bunch of laptops, he's supposedly quite coachable and his teammates like him (i.e. the Eddie Griffin worst case scenarios don't seem particularly likely. more likely, the worst that happens is he spends his millions all on drugs and washes out of the league. I don't see him going psycho and ripping the locker room apart). But the thought of him and good ol' Spliff Robinson on the same team might soon have the Nets trading in their name for the Blazers or the Nuggets.

Regardless, I think we had to do it. The Nets are totally stagnant, good enough to make the playoffs in the East, not nearly good enough to make any real noise, and the only way thats gonna change is if we get an athletic, shotblocking big. We have no cap space and we're too good to make the lottery (when guys like that typically go), so its either a sizeable trade (like the JO one) or taking some risks. I'd love a JO-Carter-Kidd duo, but if that falls through, Williams offers the slim hope of another way out.

moebius

06-30-2007, 01:09 PM

I'm starting to hate Larry Bird too. And we all know what a bang-up job Mchale is doing.

I think we all recognize the trend here ...

It doesn't fit the pattern you're thinking of...but don't forget Isiah. Or Michael Jordan.

Brian Cronin

06-30-2007, 01:10 PM

Punchy

06-30-2007, 05:25 PM

It doesn't fit the pattern you're thinking of...but don't forget Isiah
They're not all former Celtics?

And Vince Carter became a free agent today as well.

moebius

06-30-2007, 08:29 PM

They're not all former Celtics?

And Vince Carter became a free agent today as well.

No, they are, but Isiah and Jordan also have teams, and they also suck at their jobs.

It's not a Celtic thing, it's that the stars of the 80s and 90s were given all these positions, but being a great player doesn't make you a great GM.

Brian Cronin

06-30-2007, 10:11 PM

NHL is the same way.

Bill Simmons had a good line - "If you're a former NHL player, you have a hideous comb-over and you're NOT working as an NHL executive, you should be taking this very personally."

-Brian

Evil Sneak

07-02-2007, 06:43 AM

I think "pothead" is probably one of the silliest reasons to avoid an NBA player, as practically ALL the NBA players smoke pot!

The only downside to Williams I see from a personal standpoint is that he, unlike most others, actually gets CAUGHT.

-Brian

Yep, it's not that he does pot, it's that he's not smart enough not to get caught doing pot. That's what scares the NBA execs away.

Ryan K

07-02-2007, 08:47 AM

Spurs seem to be near an agreement to resign Oberto. No surprise there.

The deal I really really want to happen is a sign and trade for Nocioni. Spurs have always had an interest in him and the rumor is the Spurs love how Oberto and Ginobili play together and would like to add a third Argentinian.

Luis Scola is apparently so pissed at the Spurs for not signing him years ago that he now refuses to sign with them just on principal. The Bulls want a low post scorer and Scola is that. According to some poorly translated internation reports, the two teams have talked about a deal but 2 things are holding it up. (1) Nocioni it seems would like to explore his options first (or so I understood) and (2) it looks like the Spurs would have to sign and trade Scola rather than just trade his rights for cap resaons. Beno Udrih could probably get packaged in there. Or a sign and trade with Melvin Ely who the Bulls have contacted.

I'm dying for this to happen.

Punchy

07-02-2007, 02:05 PM

Lakers resign Luke Walton, so suprise there but it is suprising that the contract is for six years. Hope he continues to get better.

Vince Carter back with the Nets, no suprise.

The Clippers are rumored to be going after Steve Francis who is supposed to get a contract buy-out from the Blazers.

Rob Allen

07-02-2007, 05:24 PM

Right, Rob, but in your opinion - do you think Frye was enough for Randolph?

Yes. It was addition by subtraction. And buying out Francis' contract frees up a nice bit of money next year.

Punchy

07-03-2007, 07:03 AM

So Seattle is letting Rashard Lewis go to the Magic?

Now they really look stupid.

literally exaggerated

07-03-2007, 09:41 AM

Not as stupid as they'd look if they matched or exceeded the offer of $75 million over 5 years. Thats nearly the max, more than Vince Carter's new contract, for a borderline all-star who can basically do two things- shoot, and dunk. He's not a playmaker, not an exceptional rebounder, he doesn't play defense and he can't close out games.

I mean, he is a good fit for the Magic, but at that price? Yeesh. Say hello to a half-decade of mediocrity behind the Dwight-Lewis duo, because after Dwight signs his extension they are gonna be in cap hell.

Also, Darko's a lock to leave now, and I know he constantly takes shit for being drafted ahead of Melo-Bosh-Wade, but he's an athletic 22 year old 7 footer with excellent shotblocking timing, decent rebounding, and a promising midrange game. There are a lot of teams out there who would be very happy to sign him, and I'd be shocked if he didn't get at least as much as Nene.

Ryan K

07-03-2007, 09:44 AM

I think after Clevaland made it to the NBA Finals every team in the East lost their minds and started figuring they could make it to the NBA Finals if they just had one more piece. Hence the Magic overpaying Rashard Lewis.

Punchy

07-03-2007, 09:50 AM

Give me Lewis over Carter any day of the week.

literally exaggerated

07-03-2007, 10:04 AM

Carter vs. Lewis
24.1 ppg vs. 16.6 ppg
5.4 rpg vs. 5.8 rpg
4.1 apg vs. 2.4 apg
45% fg vs. 46% fg
79% ft vs. 80% ft
38% 3 pt. vs. 39% 3 pt.
1.3 spg vs. 1.2 spg
.8 bpg vs. .5 bpg

How can you possibly like Lewis over Vince in this comparison, especially considering Vince is playing for cheaper? I mean, granted Vince is a choker and takes it off on defense, but Lewis is the exact same way. He's been a loser his whole career, is terrible on defense and isn't anything close to being an effective closer. He's taller, but has no post game so it doesn't matter, and he's younger by about a year and a half (but Vince's contract is shorter).

BYC

07-03-2007, 11:49 AM

I think Seattle was hoping for a sign and trade. Lewis just doesn't bring enough to the table for a max contract. Orlando is pretty foolish giving him that contract, which also completely messes up the whole free agent market.

Lewis and Durant together meant they would have two 6' 11" guys who are gunners that don't contribute to the ball flow or defense. If they could have signed him with an efficient contract, it'd be fine, but certainly not for a max.

Valmore

07-03-2007, 01:57 PM

Also, Darko's a lock to leave now, and I know he constantly takes shit for being drafted ahead of Melo-Bosh-Wade, but he's an athletic 22 year old 7 footer with excellent shotblocking timing, decent rebounding, and a promising midrange game. There are a lot of teams out there who would be very happy to sign him, and I'd be shocked if he didn't get at least as much as Nene.

Darko's a lock to leave, but I don't think he'll get Nene money or anything. He'll get a tidy deal worth more than he's shown, but nothing spectacularly outrageous.

Aubergine~!

07-03-2007, 08:14 PM

I think Seattle was hoping for a sign and trade. Lewis just doesn't bring enough to the table for a max contract. Orlando is pretty foolish giving him that contract, which also completely messes up the whole free agent market.

I heard yesterday that Seattle still actually had that option, and that the Magic wanted it to happen so that they could clear cap space for Darko.

Ryan K

07-03-2007, 08:46 PM

Spurs have reached verbal agreements with Jacque Vaughan, Fabricio Oberto, and Matt Bonner to stay with the team.

And it looks like PJ Carlesimo is the new coach of the Sonics. Here's hoping they don't fire him in the next two years because they're gonna suck until they can sign some free agents in the summer of '09.

Punchy

07-04-2007, 08:16 AM

Well I guess my picking of Lewis over Carter says more to the fact that Carter is probably one of the most overrated basketball players of the past 10 years. The guy readily admitted he didn't play hard for his team. That's enough for me to not want him.

And as far as the money Lewis got, that's just the way the NBA works. If you want a free agent you have to overpay for him

literally exaggerated

07-04-2007, 09:13 AM

Well I guess my picking of Lewis over Carter says more to the fact that Carter is probably one of the most overrated basketball players of the past 10 years. The guy readily admitted he didn't play hard for his team. That's enough for me to not want him.

Thats fine, and I won't even disagree. As a Nets fan, I'd trade Vince for, say, Paul Pierce (older, obviously less talented, but busts his ass so hard he more than makes up the difference) in a heartbeat.

But even if Vince is overrated and his stats are padded, even if he doesn't give his all and doesn't come through in the clutch, he's still hand down inarguably better at essentially everything than Rashard. Rashard's numbers are inflated too, playing on a bad, offensively minded team (think Al Harrington with the Hawks), he's not a good closer, he's an underachiever, he doesn't play D and he's much more 1-dimensional than Vince.

Now, if Vince was getting a larger contract, or older enough for it to make a difference, I could see your argument. But he's not. So there's really nothing at all that makes Shard more desirable in any way than him.

Rob Allen

07-05-2007, 04:53 PM

BYC

07-05-2007, 05:44 PM

- a Western team offered a sure first-ballot Hall-of-Famer - some debate over whether this was Kobe Bryant or Steve Nash.

I'm glad they didn't take any of these deals.

What if it was Tim Duncan? :D

I kid, I kid.

Punchy

07-06-2007, 08:56 AM

Wow, those are some pretty impressive "no's" by the Blazers.

Valmore

07-06-2007, 08:14 PM

The local media has written about some of the deals the Trail Blazers were offered for the #1 pick. They didn't name names, but some of the hints were pretty clear:

- an Eastern team offered a five-time all-star and a lottery pick - most people think that was Paul Pierce and the #5 pick from Boston.

- a NW Division team offered a future Hall-of-Famer and a standout rookie - believed to mean Kevin Garnett and Randy Foye from Minnesota.

- a Western team offered a sure first-ballot Hall-of-Famer - some debate over whether this was Kobe Bryant or Steve Nash.

I'm glad they didn't take any of these deals.

Playing the "What if they HAD to take one of those deals" game, I'd say Minnesota's would probably have been the best. Garnett and Foye along with Aldridge would have been pretty sweet.

But picking Oden is probably the best thing Portland could have done.

Unless for some odd reason he's a bust.

But I don't think he's going to be a bust.