Underrated guitarists

[jesse_custer]

This thread is for pointing out badass guitarists that don't get as much exposure as Eddie Van Halen or Eric Clapton. I'll start with a couple.

Larry Carlton - Excellent studio jazz musician. He played with Steely Dan on most of Aja, and the incredible solos on "Kid Charlemagne" by Steely Dan are his work. If you'd like to check out an album of his, maybe start with On Solid Ground, the album he recorded after he recovered from a gunshot wound. It's not a perfect album by any means, but it's a decent instrumental album with an awesome instrumental cover of "Layla."

Michael Hedges - This might be the best acoustic player who ever lived, but hardly anyone mentions the poor bastard. Either pick up the album Aerial Boundaries or try downloading "Ragamuffin," "Hot Type," and the song "Aerial Boundaries." I'm serious about this: if you want to hear inventive acoustic guitar playing, listen to this guy immediately.

[TheLazy]

Charlie Christian - The godfather of the electric guitar. He tried to join Duke Ellingtons band and was denied, so Dukes manager put him on stage without telling the Duke, then when Christians imprivison slot came along he made jaws drop, kind of like what Hendrix did onstage with Cream.

James Hetfield - Yes, its true, Metallica didn't invent Thrash, but it's frontman did invent the bread and butter. there's not a metal band out there that hasn't writing a song based on a riff that 'Rides the E String'. Hetfield proved that lead wasn't the future of rock.

:)

[mattx110]

aside from james hetfield, i don't think any of these guitarists are under-rated at all. just not that well known to the public at large, and well, they don't care about guitarists.

so i'm gonna go with willie nelson. known as a singer-songwriter type, but plays guitar pretty damn well too.

[parrish]

I'll throw in Johnny Marr of the Smiths (and currently of Modest Mouse). The Smiths were a great band and some of that stuff he plays is pretty tricky.

[Kara Zor El]

frank zappa
paul mccartney
pete townsend

[Ottmeister X]

I'm not a huge fan of his easy-going tunes, but John Mayer seems to have some chops when he wants to show them.

Frank Hannon from my favorite band Tesla. The dude has really come into his own these last 5 years or so.

Prince, just because I think everyone forgets he knows how to play the guitar.

Billy Gibbons from ZZ Top. Looking past their popular songs, ZZ has some great bluesy songs with some great guitar work from Gibbons. I don't think he's underrated among his peers though.

[GreatLakesAvenger]

Neal Schon
Billy Gibbons

...and these guys:
myspace.com/avengersassemblemusic

[jesse_custer]

aside from james hetfield, i don't think any of these guitarists are under-rated at all.

Please. Hetfield receives more praise than the other three combined.

[jessecuster3]

Bryan Sutton!


Check him out. (http://youtube.com/watch?v=UG9Az8fOkeg)

[TheLazy]

frank zappa
paul mccartney
pete townsend

Paul Macartney...underated? £40M say differently;)

:)

[The Confessor]

I think in general the greatest acoustic guitar players never get the same amount of respect & acclaim as their electric guitar playing counterparts. Which is just madness, as anyone who's ever heard Nick Drake, Robert Johnson or Bert Jansch will attest.

Therefore, I'd like to draw everyone's attention to John Martyn's guitar playing. You almost never hear critics raving about his playing but I think it's awesome...both from an artist & a technical standpoint.

[cosmoboy]

Stone Gossard Mike McCready. By god I dunno if they're underrated but I'll be damned if I'm not gonna throw some Pearl Jam out there.

[mattx110]

Please. Hetfield receives more praise than the other three combined.

i didn't mean to imply that i liked hetfield or that he was any good. but i don't think anyone that knows who larry carlton, michael hedges or charlie christian is rates them as anything but spectacular.

more people know james, but i just don't see underexposed and under-rated as being synonymous, but i do understand the usage here.

someone known for being a singer or other instrumentalist like mark o'connor qualifies. sure he's known as an incredibly violinist/fiddler but even though he pretty much quit to save his hands, he's a great guitarist too.
i think brad paisley pretty much hit as a guitarist and a singer simultaneously, which puts him ahead of the pack compared to john mayer who needed a publicity move for people to go "he's a guitarist too"

on another note, i think them kids in children of bodom may be under-rated as far as metal goes. they're more than just "tricks and thrashing".
and as far as not known enough, peter macintosh qualifies. not many guitarists use harmonics that subtly so that it just feels like another note, not as an effect.

[twilight]

I'll throw in Johnny Marr of the Smiths (and currently of Modest Mouse). The Smiths were a great band and some of that stuff he plays is pretty tricky.

Hell yes.

I love that kind of twangy guitar.

[Ilash]

Paul Macartney...underated? £40M say differently;)

:)

Yeah but how many people rate him for his guitar playing? I'm a huge fan of the guy's but even I am hardly bowled over by his guitar playing. On the other hand, George Harrison is still constantly overlooked by far too many people. George was a superb guitar player who made up in lyricism and expression for what he lacked in flashiness.

As for Zappa and Townshend, well, they are usually given their due but yeah, their songwriting chops often overshadow their guitar work.

[DDM]

John McGeogh--A self-taught guitarist who developed his own style & voice. He was in Magazine, Siouxsie & the Banshees, Visage, & PiL. Sadly, he died a few years ago in his sleep.

[Jonathan Bogart]

Names not very many people have heard (but everyone who has heard respects): James Blood Ulmer, John Fahey, Leo Kottke, Roy Buchanan, Eddie Hazel, Vini Reilly.

People not famous for their guitar playing (but who should be): Ike Turner, Ernie Isley, Lou Reed, Sly Stone, Robert Smith.

Names less mentioned when it comes to guitar heroes than they should be: Ron Wood, Robert Quine, Tom Verlaine, Robin Guthrie.

[TheLazy]

Yeah but how many people rate him for his guitar playing? I'm a huge fan of the guy's but even I am hardly bowled over by his guitar playing. On the other hand, George Harrison is still constantly overlooked by far too many people. George was a superb guitar player who made up in lyricism and expression for what he lacked in flashiness.

As for Zappa and Townshend, well, they are usually given their due but yeah, their songwriting chops often overshadow their guitar work.

I constantly read about him being the worlds richest guitarist, that implies a form of respect for his guitar chops.

I was thinking of starting an overrated guitarist thread but lets face it, Slash has it hands down.

:)

[leonaozaki]

Kristen Hersh (Throwing Muses, 50 Foot Wave)

Joey Santiago (Pixies)

Bob Stinson (Replacements)

Chris Whitley

...and I know people are gonna throw things at me for this one, but I'm just gonna say it: Bob Dylan. Don't believe me? Check out his solo on "Leopard Skin Pill-Box Hat" on Blonde on Blonde and then we'll talk. Or his finger-picking on "Frankie and Johnny" on Good as I been to You...or what he does to the guitar on "Broke Down Engine" on World Gone Wrong. You might be surprised.

rob

[leonaozaki]

I constantly read about him being the worlds richest guitarist, that implies a form of respect for his guitar chops.

I was thinking of starting an overrated guitarist thread but lets face it, Slash has it hands down.

:)

Nah, for my money that award goes to Eric Clapton.

rob

[leonaozaki]

Names not very many people have heard (but everyone who has heard respects): James Blood Ulmer, John Fahey, Leo Kottke, Roy Buchanan, Eddie Hazel, Vini Reilly.

People not famous for their guitar playing (but who should be): Ike Turner, Ernie Isley, Lou Reed, Sly Stone, Robert Smith.

Names less mentioned when it comes to guitar heroes than they should be: Ron Wood, Robert Quine, Tom Verlaine, Robin Guthrie.

Is Lou Reed really not famous for his guitar-playing? I ask this in all honesty, and with no snark-- because I'm really surprised that anyone who hasn't listened to his music wouldn't rate him.

rob

[Jonathan Bogart]

Is Lou Reed really not famous for his guitar-playing? I ask this in all honesty, and with no snark-- because I'm really surprised that anyone who hasn't listened to his music wouldn't rate him.
I'd say he's thought of much more as a songwriter, as a personality, and maybe as a singer, than as a guitarist. Even his most influential guitar work, with the Velvet Underground, tends to be thought of in terms of John Cale's involvement.

[berk]

I'm a big fan of Reed's work, but don't think of him as a great guitar player; I always thought Stirling Morrison was the man responsible for most of the VU's nice guitar sound, and in Reed's solo work he's often had some pretty accomplished guitarists woking with him, e.g. the aforementioned Quine. I know for sure of only one album in which Reed played all the guitar - Rock and Roll Heart, which is a favourite of mine, I must admit, but the guitar is a little buried in the mix so it's hard to form an opinion based on that one.

A guy who I think is a little forgotten now is the late Mick Ronson. He did some pretty amazing work with Bowie in the early 70s. I like his two solo albums from that era as well - very derivative of Bowie's sound from around then, but still excellent.

I also like (this one will raise a few guffaws, I'm sure) Justin Hayward of the Moody Blues, who I thought had excellent instincts of just what to play when. Some of his guitar lines are so perfect for the particular song, always a pleasure to listen to his playing.

My favourite guy is Steve Howe of Yes, who probably isn't really under-rated, except in the sense that Yes and so-called prog-rock itself is out of fashion at the moment. Another guy whose technical ability is secondary to his instincts of just what to play at what time. Probably no other guitarist in popular music has given me as much pleasure as Howe. I was lucky enough to see a solo concert of his a few months back in a very small concert hall and was sitting in the 2nd row. It was like hearing him play in your living room. One of the best shows I've ever experienced.

[The Confessor]

Stone Gossard Mike McCready. By god I dunno if they're underrated but I'll be damned if I'm not gonna throw some Pearl Jam out there.

Yeah, I'll second that. They are very good guitarists.

[The Confessor]

Yeah but how many people rate him for his guitar playing? I'm a huge fan of the guy's but even I am hardly bowled over by his guitar playing.

What??!!! :eek: Just check out the guitar solo in Taxman (it's McCartney, not Harrison) or his contribution to the three-way guitar duel in the song The End on Abbey Road.

And what about the guitar part to Blackbird? Not that it's ever so technically difficult but the guy actually wrote that guitar part! 'Nuff said!

[Spike-X]

I know people are gonna throw things at me for this one, but I'm just gonna say it: Bob Dylan. Don't believe me?

I wouldn't have, before I heard It's Alright Ma, I'm Only Bleeding from the 1964 "Official Bootleg". There's some fantastic guitar playing going on there. Which makes it all the more puzzling as to why he so often chooses to play like somebody who just picked up the instrument for the first time five minutes ago.

[GRANT!]

No one ever talks about Richard Thompson here. He does great accoustic and electric work.

[Dennis K]

Leroy Powell

[leonaozaki]

I wouldn't have, before I heard It's Alright Ma, I'm Only Bleeding from the 1964 "Official Bootleg". There's some fantastic guitar playing going on there. Which makes it all the more puzzling as to why he so often chooses to play like somebody who just picked up the instrument for the first time five minutes ago.

All part of the ineffable mystery that is Bob.

rob

[parrish]

I think Vince Gill should also be on the list. He's known for being a great singer, but he is also a very good chicken picker.

[jesse_custer]

but i don't think anyone that knows who larry carlton, michael hedges or charlie christian is rates them as anything but spectacular.

I've heard a few people imply that they weren't that impressed with Hedges and Carlton. You must have talked to only a few that knows them. Also, I don't think too much of Charlie Christian myself.

My favourite guy is Steve Howe of Yes, who probably isn't really under-rated, except in the sense that Yes and so-called prog-rock itself is out of fashion at the moment. Another guy whose technical ability is secondary to his instincts of just what to play at what time. Probably no other guitarist in popular music has given me as much pleasure as Howe. I was lucky enough to see a solo concert of his a few months back in a very small concert hall and was sitting in the 2nd row. It was like hearing him play in your living room. One of the best shows I've ever experienced.

Steve Howe is probably the most versatile rock guitarist of the 1970s. I still love listening to "Mood For a Day."

[Ilash]

What??!!! :eek: Just check out the guitar solo in Taxman (it's McCartney, not Harrison) or his contribution to the three-way guitar duel in the song The End on Abbey Road.

And what about the guitar part to Blackbird? Not that it's ever so technically difficult but the guy actually wrote that guitar part! 'Nuff said!

Nah, I think he's a perfectly decent guitarist with flashes of brilliance but his songwriting, singing and bass-playing do rightfully overshadow Paul's skill as a guitarist.

[Ilash]

Nah, for my money that award goes to Eric Clapton.

rob

Oh, come one, say what you want about his solo career being boring, how can you think the guy's playing is overrated. The dude's just a monster on the guitar -both acoustic and electric.

[parrish]

Nah, I think he's a perfectly decent guitarist with flashes of brilliance but his songwriting, singing and bass-playing do rightfully overshadow Paul's skill as a guitarist.

This is true, but I think as a guitarist he is underrated because his other skills are as good as they are.

[Rattlehead]

Mick Mars from Motley Crue. he could constantly come up with interesting riffs, his soloing was superb, and he singlehandely made a lot of otherwise mediocre Nikki Sixx compositions into hit songs. The amazing solo in Piece of Your Action makes Too Fast for Love worth purchasing alone.

The late Steve Clark from Def Leppard. On Leppards first 3 albums, before they devolved into boring chick-rock, this guy was absolutley smoking. He was a quiet mild-mannered man who let his guitar do the talking and talk he did. There's some mind-blowing lead work to be found on the On Through the Night and High N Dry albums.

Esteban. yeah he's mainly known for whoring himself out to QVC and infomercials, but he truly is a great Spanish-style guitar player.

[jessecuster3]

I am surprised noone mentions Brian Setzer.

[parrish]

I don't consider Setzer underrated. He got his own signature series from Gretch.

[The Confessor]

Nah, I think he's a perfectly decent guitarist with flashes of brilliance but his songwriting, singing and bass-playing do rightfully overshadow Paul's skill as a guitarist.

Yeah sure, that goes without saying but still, he's a hell of a guitar player too. He was easily the equal of Harrison or Lennon on the guitar IMO.

[Ottmeister X]

I think Vince Gill should also be on the list. He's known for being a great singer, but he is also a very good chicken picker.

I would agree, and I was going to list him, but I'm thinking he's not underrated among country fans, myself not being one.

[The Confessor]

how can you think the guy's playing is overrated. The dude's just a monster on the guitar -both acoustic and electric.

Frankly I'd rather listen to one of Syd Barret's one string guitar solos than anything Clapton's done since he left Cream. The guy might be technically superb but unfortunately he plays the guitar with all the fire and passion of a Vulcan. And has done for the last 35 years.

[Ottmeister X]

Joe Bonamassa, at least to the general public. I'm pretty sure his blues peers know all about him, but I don't think the general public, and maybe quite a few blues fans, know how good he is. IMO, he's the best of the recent young blues players that have come along.

Easily, Mike Campbell from Tom Petty & The Heartbreakers. The group gets a lot of respect and obviously Tom garners the acclaims, as he deserves them. But I don't think people realize how talented Mike is or the fact he's been Tom's right-hand man all of these years.

[jesse_custer]

Mike Campbell is indeed really good.

Confessor's right about Clapton not being that good after Cream, although I liked 461 Ocean Boulevard (more for the overall sound than the guitar playing, though). However, I wouldn't say McCartney is equal to Lennon or Harrison. Nothing that McCartney has played on guitar matches Lennon's brilliant opening riff to "I Feel Fine." And Harrison has one of the most distinctive guitar styles of all time, while McCartney is just a good player.

[Lone Ranger]

Someone who used to get a lot of ink 15-20 years ago as one of the greats, but is often overlooked today is Steve Cropper.

I'd also go with Frank Sampedro of Crazy Horse - anyone who has ever seen him play live and jam with Neil Young knows that he has great style, energy and creativity.

[maggotbrain]

Someone who used to get a lot of ink 15-20 years ago as one of the greats, but is often overlooked today is Steve Cropper.

I'd agree with you on that one. "Green Onions" has become ubiquitous in the years since it's release that people have forgotten how influential it was to many great players particularly Jeff Beck.

For underrated guitarists, here's a few names:
Elliot Easton - Cars (lovely solos - some are pretty memorable too)
Lindsay Buckingham - Fleetwood Mac ("Go Your Own Way" anyone?)
Marty Wilson-Piper & Peter Koppes -The Church

[maggotbrain]

Doube Post - pls. delete

[maggotbrain]

Pls. delete - Triple Post

[Matthew E]

I remember a quote about Steve Cropper, something like, "In that one little guitar solo in 'Soul Man', Cropper sums up everything that Jeff Beck and Jimmy Page have spent their entire careers trying to say."

[leonaozaki]

Oh, come one, say what you want about his solo career being boring, how can you think the guy's playing is overrated. The dude's just a monster on the guitar -both acoustic and electric.

Technically, Eric Clapton is, yes, a monster. But unless we're talking about his 60's work, or maaaaaybe Layla, I never want to listen to him play again, because I find his playing (and singing, and songwriting) soulless in the extreme. I can think of a dozen other guitarists who are just as skilled that I would rather listen to.

rob

[Rob Allen]

Question for you guitarist fans: how well-regarded is Bob Weir of the Dead?

[Spike-X]

Oh, come one, say what you want about his solo career being boring, how can you think the guy's playing is overrated. The dude's just a monster on the guitar -both acoustic and electric.
Watch Further On Up The Road from The Last Waltz.

Clapton plays a pretty good solo for 12 bars. Then Robbie Robertson comes in and kicks his arse. Clapton doesn't let Robertson have another solo for the rest of the song.

Overrated and insecure.

[Tish-the-Scorpion]

Ernie isley

Vernon reid

prince

Mark Tremonti

Stuart Matthewman

johnny guitar watson

curtis mayefield

[jesse_custer]

I can't believe I'm saying this, but I kind of agree about Mark Tremonti. I mean, he's not awesome or anything, but people rarely give him credit for what he can do. Not every rock guitarist can fingerpick as well as he can, at the very least.

[Hellbaby]

Tom Morello and Buckethead. In discussions of great guitarists, I rarely hear their names come up, even though they can make some of the coolest noise with their guitars.

[leonaozaki]

Watch Further On Up The Road from The Last Waltz.

Clapton plays a pretty good solo for 12 bars. Then Robbie Robertson comes in and kicks his arse. Clapton doesn't let Robertson have another solo for the rest of the song.

Overrated and insecure.

When I was thinking about guitarists I would rate instead of Eric Clapton, the first one that lept to my mind was Robbie Robertson. I was listening to Blonde on Blonde today and his playing on that is sublime. In his prime he was just incredible.

rob

[Ottmeister X]

Question for you guitarist fans: how well-regarded is Bob Weir of the Dead?

I've no opinion of him, but I believe he's well-regarded enough not to be considered underrated. Obviously, his fan base is huge.

[Ottmeister X]

Tom Morello and Buckethead. In discussions of great guitarists, I rarely hear their names come up, even though they can make some of the coolest noise with their guitars.

I personally don't think Morello is all that stellar, but it's seems enough people like him.

For people who know guitarists, specifically rock or hard rock, I believe Buckethead rates pretty high with them. I would say he's not underrated just because his peers think high of him. If he's actually underrated, then blame his name for doing it to himself.

[Adam C]

Names not very many people have heard (but everyone who has heard respects): James Blood Ulmer, John Fahey, Leo Kottke, Roy Buchanan, Eddie Hazel, Vini Reilly.

People not famous for their guitar playing (but who should be): Ike Turner, Ernie Isley, Lou Reed, Sly Stone, Robert Smith.

Names less mentioned when it comes to guitar heroes than they should be: Ron Wood, Robert Quine, Tom Verlaine, Robin Guthrie.

Very good list there Jon. Quine, Reilly, and Buchanan in particular came to mind when I saw this list. I actually didn't think of Verlaine and Fahey at first myself because while they are relatively overlooked compared to say...I dunno Jimmy Page they seem to get still get a fair bit of recogntion by music afficianados (granted I'm going off acknowledgement they get from music magazines). Quine, Rielly, and Buchanan seemingly less so. Barely any mention of Quine's innovative, fractured playing on Blank Generation relative to Verlaine (and Richard Lloyd's) playing on Marquee Moon. Rielly's style is virtually unique among players but he seems to get little attention from even the British music press when celebrating post-punk and British guitarists. And Buchanan doesn't seem to get that much attention even from blues guitar fans despite being one of the most original white electric blues players. (I also think that Rory Gallagher and Mike Bloomfield are similarly overlooked.) Which brings me to...

Oh, come one, say what you want about his solo career being boring, how can you think the guy's playing is overrated. The dude's just a monster on the guitar -both acoustic and electric.

Let me echo everyone's sentiments here, whatever Clapton's technical gifts any emotion or forcefulness in his playing has long since bled away (after Layla and Other Love Songs to be percise. I find his playing to be boring and lifeless, probably too fussy as a player. Which is interesting because the last time I heard him rock out was watching a clip from the Cream reunion DVD. And apparently he had the flu when he did that show.

And Spike...my thoughts exactly regarding Clapton's appearance during The Last Waltz.

[Adam C]

Okay, not to poop on other people's parade (but isn't part of the fun of discussion the disagreements) but I just cannot wrap my head around the idea of Frank Zappa, Charlie Christian, Johnny Marr, Tom Morello, and Pete Townshend being underrated at all. These are probably some of the more widely recognised and acknowledged guitarists that have appeared on this list -- particularly Townshend who holds status as a well known rock icon.

[Jonathan Bogart]

Question for you guitarist fans: how well-regarded is Bob Weir of the Dead?
Every guitar-hero fan I know is much more a fan of Jerry's playing than Weir's.

[jesse_custer]

And that's because Jerry was a hundred times better.

Yeah, I don't understand the Pete Townshend thing, either. In many circles he's considered the best rhythm player of all time.

[Jonathan Bogart]

I'd also go with Frank Sampedro of Crazy Horse - anyone who has ever seen him play live and jam with Neil Young knows that he has great style, energy and creativity.
Anyone who's played with Crazy Horse deserves to be on this list, including Danny Whitten, Nils Lofgren, and (of course) Neil Young, who is another of those who tends to get more respect for his songwriting than for his groundbreaking guitar style.

Nels Cline, Marc Ribot, Glenn Branca, Chris Stein, and Steve Diggle are some more names to throw out there. (Whoever named John McGeoch -- good choice.) And Mick Jones of the Clash, while certainly beloved by punk fans, probably doesn't get his due as a composer of some of the greatest minimal solos in pop history.

[Spike-X]

Oh, definitely Nils Lofgren! His playing has literally brought tears to my eyes. And not just from knowing that I'll never be that good.

[Hellbaby]

I personally don't think Morello is all that stellar, but it's seems enough people like him.

For people who know guitarists, specifically rock or hard rock, I believe Buckethead rates pretty high with them. I would say he's not underrated just because his peers think high of him. If he's actually underrated, then blame his name for doing it to himself.

Yah, I really don't know how good Morello is, but he can make some really cool noises with it (i.e. scratching like a DJ).

[TheLazy]

Yah, I really don't know how good Morello is, but he can make some really cool noises with it (i.e. scratching like a DJ).

I prefer his rhythm work to be honest. His fusion style is more impressive than a few lead sparks. How many progressive hip-hop bands do you know? There aren't many. The Roots. The Gorillaz maybe? I think that constantly gets overlooked compared to the wierd noises.

:)

[The Confessor]

Confessor's right about Clapton not being that good after Cream, although I liked 461 Ocean Boulevard (more for the overall sound than the guitar playing, though). However, I wouldn't say McCartney is equal to Lennon or Harrison. Nothing that McCartney has played on guitar matches Lennon's brilliant opening riff to "I Feel Fine." And Harrison has one of the most distinctive guitar styles of all time, while McCartney is just a good player.

Yeah, I agree completely that Harrison had a great ear for distinctive & memorable guitar parts and Lennon was a hell of a guiyar player too. Don't get me wrong, I'm not knocking these two in any way, I just think that McCartney definitely held his own in The Beatles on the rare occasions that he played lead guitar.

I again point to the three-way 'guitar duel' in the song The End on Abbey Road. Mccartney's guitar lines/riffs in this section are just as good and exciting as Lennon & Harrison's. Other examples are the lead guitar lines in the song Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band, the lead guitar in Helter Skelter and again to repeat myself Macca's indian-tinged guitar solo from Taxman off of Revolver. That's a kick-ass guitar solo!

And while we're at it, let's not forget McCartney's lovely folk style finger-picking of songs like Blackbird & Mother Nature's Son.

That's without mentioning anything from his solo career which features plenty of examples of his guitar playing chops!

[The Confessor]

Question for you guitarist fans: how well-regarded is Bob Weir of the Dead?

Well, anytime anyone talks about guitar playing in the Grateful Dead, let's face it, they're gonna be talking about Jerry Garcia aren't they? I've always thought Bob Weir was a reasonable guitarist but he's more of a rhythm player isn't he?

I remember reading somewhere that at one point in the 60's Jerry Garcia & Phil Lesh were so frustrated by Weir's inability to play the songs they were writing that they threatened to kick him out of the band. Don't know if that's true though.

Bob Weir's got a good voice I think, and as I say, from what I've heard he always plays reasonable rhythm guitar. Mind you, although I'm somewhat of a Grateful Dead fan (I have their first 6 albums and really enjoy them), I'm by no means what you'd call a 'Dead Head'. So what do I know?!

[jesse_custer]

And while we're at it, let's not forget McCartney's lovely folk style finger-picking of songs like Blackbird & Mother Nature's Son.

Well, that definitely separates him from the pack the most. I guess when it comes down to it, though, I prefer his bass playing.

[Ilash]

A few points:

1. I realize that much of Clapton's work since the seventies has been bland and boring but I don't think that takes away from his immensely powerful work that he did in the sixties and with the Dominoes as well as on some of his later blues albums and some of his live stuff. But hey, I actually like his Unplugged album so what the hell do I know?

2. Macca. Like I said, he does have moments of real greatness on the guitar (his acoustic guitar work especially) but overall, I just don't see how anyone can really put him on the same level as someone like George Harrison (though he's certainly a match for John). As for his Wings stuff, I have to say, I'm not sure whether it's him or his many sidemen playing most of the guitar work.

3. I certainly second Robbie Robertson and, even more so, Steve Cropper. It's easy to overlook their stuff because in the case of bands like the Band and Booker T and the McGs, the guitar work is so perfectly integrated with the rest of the band that it's almost hard to look at it as a separate entity. This is of course anything but a criticism because I for one respect guitarists who serve their band and their music over their ego far more than those who do the opposite.

4. The last point sort of leads me to a question that I want to ask all of you: Are rhythm guitarists generally overlooked by nature? Sure, guys like Keith Richards don't usually turn up in in underrated guitarist lists but they are often overlooked when compiling lists of the the greatest guitarists ever simply because they are there more to serve the music than for self indulgent guitar wankery.

[The Confessor]

Well, that definitely separates him from the pack the most. I guess when it comes down to it, though, I prefer his bass playing.

Oh yeah, totally. He's a great, great bass player. No doubts there!

[berk]

A few points:

1. I realize that much of Clapton's work since the seventies has been bland and boring but I don't think that takes away from his immensely powerful work that he did in the sixties and with the Dominoes as well as on some of his later blues albums and some of his live stuff. But hey, I actually like his Unplugged album so what the hell do I know?I partly agree with this - I think he was still good up to and including 461 Ocean Blvd, but the commercial success of that album, which was a bit of a comeback for him at the time, after some drug-related problems IIRC, led him to debase it into a formula drained of the creative fire he'd shown earlier in his career. I haven't paid much attention to him since, based on the quality of his radio-hits, which may be why his later work doesn't irredeemably taint my view of his earlier stuff.

2. Macca. Like I said, he does have moments of real greatness on the guitar (his acoustic guitar work especially) but overall, I just don't see how anyone can really put him on the same level as someone like George Harrison (though he's certainly a match for John). As for his Wings stuff, I have to say, I'm not sure whether it's him or his many sidemen playing most of the guitar work.I don't really have muc of an opinion on this, because I can't think of many examples of McCartney's playing. I don't really have any idea of who played which guitar parts on the Beatles albums, or even the Wings'.

3. I certainly second Robbie Robertson and, even more so, Steve Cropper. It's easy to overlook their stuff because in the case of bands like the Band and Booker T and the McGs, the guitar work is so perfectly integrated with the rest of the band that it's almost hard to look at it as a separate entity. This is of course anything but a criticism because I for one respect guitarists who serve their band and their music over their ego far more than those who do the opposite.Totally agree. Another one who comes to mind is the guy who played on all Al Green's early stuff, Mabon 'Teenie' Hodges (I just had to look his name up on the liner notes of the greatest hits cd, which shows either just how under-rated he is or how ignorant I am). Actually that whole backing band was amazing, 3 Hodges brothers on guitar, organ and bass and the drummer whose name I forget.

4. The last point sort of leads me to a question that I want to ask all of you: Are rhythm guitarists generally overlooked by nature? Sure, guys like Keith Richards don't usually turn up in in underrated guitarist lists but they are often overlooked when compiling lists of the the greatest guitarists ever simply because they are there more to serve the music than for self indulgent guitar wankery.Reminds me of another guy whose sound I love: Mick Taylor. The Stones have never been the same since he left.

[Adam C]

1. I realize that much of Clapton's work since the seventies has been bland and boring but I don't think that takes away from his immensely powerful work that he did in the sixties and with the Dominoes as well as on some of his later blues albums and some of his live stuff. But hey, I actually like his Unplugged album so what the hell do I know?

Well that's just the thing. He continues to get an inexplicable (in my view) amount of praise for much of his solo work following Derek and the Dominoes despite the incredible blandness of that work and his playing.

3. I certainly second Robbie Robertson and, even more so, Steve Cropper. It's easy to overlook their stuff because in the case of bands like the Band and Booker T and the McGs, the guitar work is so perfectly integrated with the rest of the band that it's almost hard to look at it as a separate entity. This is of course anything but a criticism because I for one respect guitarists who serve their band and their music over their ego far more than those who do the opposite.

I'm actually a bit skeptical on how underrated they are. Sure the general public may not recognise them in the way they recognise Richards or Hendrix, but among music fans and the music press they tend to get a great deal of praise and recognition for their acheivements. When Mojo compiled a list of the greatest guitarists back in 1996, Cropper was rated number two behind Hendrix.

4. The last point sort of leads me to a question that I want to ask all of you: Are rhythm guitarists generally overlooked by nature? Sure, guys like Keith Richards don't usually turn up in in underrated guitarist lists but they are often overlooked when compiling lists of the the greatest guitarists ever simply because they are there more to serve the music than for self indulgent guitar wankery.

Generally speaking yes, there's an incredible bias towards soloists over rhythm players and guys who integrate their playing seemlessly into the band's work (Keef' and Pete are big exceptions though, and so is Ry Cooder interestingly enough). I personally blame the ascendancy of the hard rock soloist in people's imagination, which often causes innovative players like Tom Verlaine, Thurston Moore, and Chet Atkins to get shoved down those lists.

[Ilash]

Reminds me of another guy whose sound I love: Mick Taylor. The Stones have never been the same since he left.

I both completely agree and completely disagree with this. I agree that the Keith/ Ronnie dynamic was completely different to the Keith/ Mick T collaboration so yes, they were literally a fairly different band. I take it you're also implying that they weren't as good without Mick T in the band, in which case I'm going to have to strongly disagree. Mick Taylor was a great second guitarist for the Stones and you can't discount his contributions to Sticky Fingers and Exile on Main Street but I actually prefer the really unique weaving Keith/ Ronnie pairing to the more typical lead/ rhythm dynamic that Keith had with Mick T. Sure, Some Girls aside (which incidentally, has some of my all time favourite guitar work on it), most of the Rolling Stones material that Ronnie was involved with has been quite below their peak but that's got more to do with Mick and Keith's songwriting than the guitar playing. Besides, even though Mick T was with the band for the above two rock and roll monoliths, he was around for the good but uneven Goats Head Soup and what is by far the Stones' worst seventies album, It's Only Rock and Roll.

That said, Mick Taylor is certainly a great, overlooked guitarist that certainly belongs on this thread. And to seemingly contradict myself more, Ronnie Wood deserves to be included in an overlooked guitarists list - only not for his work with the Stones. The downside to the Keith/ Ronnie "weaving" technique is that Ronnie basically turned into Keith's reflection/ shadow/ clone and his true abilities have been lost in the shuffle. His work with The Faces and with Rod Stewart are far better representations of his madly impressive guitar playing.

[Ilash]

Well that's just the thing. He continues to get an inexplicable (in my view) amount of praise for much of his solo work following Derek and the Dominoes despite the incredible blandness of that work and his playing.

Well then fair enough, I suppose. On the other hand, I do think that concentrating on his weaker side can easily lead to all the great stuff he's done being overlooked.


I'm actually a bit skeptical on how underrated they are. Sure the general public may not recognise them in the way they recognise Richards or Hendrix, but among music fans and the music press they tend to get a great deal of praise and recognition for their acheivements. When Mojo compiled a list of the greatest guitarists back in 1996, Cropper was rated number two behind Hendrix.

True. It's just never really clear whether it's the general public, music fans, critics or all of the above when a term like "underrated" is used.

Generally speaking yes, there's an incredible bias towards soloists over rhythm players and guys who integrate their playing seemlessly into the band's work (Keef' and Pete are big exceptions though, and so is Ry Cooder interestingly enough). I personally blame the ascendancy of the hard rock soloist in people's imagination, which often causes innovative players like Tom Verlaine, Thurston Moore, and Chet Atkins to get shoved down those lists.

Man, can the ascendancy of the hard rock soloist be seen in anything but a bad light? Obviously, I'm not talking about guys like Hendrix or Townshend but damn, some of their hard rocking followers really stunk up much of what was/ is so great about rock and roll.

[leonaozaki]

Anyone who's played with Crazy Horse deserves to be on this list, including Danny Whitten, Nils Lofgren, and (of course) Neil Young, who is another of those who tends to get more respect for his songwriting than for his groundbreaking guitar style.

Nels Cline, Marc Ribot, Glenn Branca, Chris Stein, and Steve Diggle are some more names to throw out there. (Whoever named John McGeoch -- good choice.) And Mick Jones of the Clash, while certainly beloved by punk fans, probably doesn't get his due as a composer of some of the greatest minimal solos in pop history.


Anybody that doesn't rate Neil Young doesn't have ears. Even when his songwriting isn't up to snuff (does happen, albeit rarely) his guitar work often saves a song. And even when he's not playing lead he's great. I also second (or third, in Logfren's case) the nomination of Whitten and Logfren. Listen to Neil and Danny play around each other on Everybody Knows This is Nowhere or Logfren on Tonight's the Night.

I was also thinking of Mick Jones, but then I thought: naaah. No one underrates Mick. But you're probably right about people not giving him enough respect for his guitar-playing alone.

rob

[leonaozaki]

I both completely agree and completely disagree with this. I agree that the Keith/ Ronnie dynamic was completely different to the Keith/ Mick T collaboration so yes, they were literally a fairly different band. I take it you're also implying that they weren't as good without Mick T in the band, in which case I'm going to have to strongly disagree. Mick Taylor was a great second guitarist for the Stones and you can't discount his contributions to Sticky Fingers and Exile on Main Street but I actually prefer the really unique weaving Keith/ Ronnie pairing to the more typical lead/ rhythm dynamic that Keith had with Mick T. Sure, Some Girls aside (which incidentally, has some of my all time favourite guitar work on it), most of the Rolling Stones material that Ronnie was involved with has been quite below their peak but that's got more to do with Mick and Keith's songwriting than the guitar playing. Besides, even though Mick T was with the band for the above two rock and roll monoliths, he was around for the good but uneven Goats Head Soup and what is by far the Stones' worst seventies album, It's Only Rock and Roll.

Yeah, but Goats Head Soup and It's Only Rock and Roll were bad because Mick and Keef's songwriting was being obliterated by heroin, not because Mick Taylor's chops weren't up to snuff. But I agree, he is a great guitarist, certainly my favorite lead Stones guitarist...and every now and again he pops up on Dylan records!

rob

[Ilash]

Yeah, but Goats Head Soup and It's Only Rock and Roll were bad because Mick and Keef's songwriting was being obliterated by heroin, not because Mick Taylor's chops weren't up to snuff. But I agree, he is a great guitarist, certainly my favorite lead Stones guitarist...and every now and again he pops up on Dylan records!

rob

Well, that was my point. That the lead guitarist had little to do with how good the Stones were. And Goats Head Soup isn't bad, it's just erratic and It's Only Rock and Roll is more mediocre and drawn out than outright bad.

[leonaozaki]

A few points:

1. I realize that much of Clapton's work since the seventies has been bland and boring but I don't think that takes away from his immensely powerful work that he did in the sixties and with the Dominoes as well as on some of his later blues albums and some of his live stuff. But hey, I actually like his Unplugged album so what the hell do I know?

While I loathe the version of Layla on Unplugged I thought the unplugged version of "Before You Accuse Me" wasn't bad. Not a patch on Bo Diddley but not bad.

I would be happy to remember Eric Clapton for his 60's work and Derek and the Dominoes if there weren't journalists and fans who still worshipped at the feet of an alleged "God" who gave up trying (to my ears) around the early 70's. Clapton has plenty of contemporaries who are still trying, striving even, to make decent music, and yet it seems that all Clapton has to do is crank out some unlistenable piece of pap, sprinkle some God (TM) solos on it, and everybody fawns all over him so that in concert he'll play "Layla" and ten thousand morons can air-guitar to the opening all over again for the ten thousandth time.

A career of boring MOR crap doesn't erase the awesomeness of the riff to "Sunshine of Your Love" but the awesomeness of "Sunshine" doesn't erase a career of boring MOR crap either.



4. The last point sort of leads me to a question that I want to ask all of you: Are rhythm guitarists generally overlooked by nature? Sure, guys like Keith Richards don't usually turn up in in underrated guitarist lists but they are often overlooked when compiling lists of the the greatest guitarists ever simply because they are there more to serve the music than for self indulgent guitar wankery.

They probably are, for the reason you cite. But that's too bad, because some of the best guitar music has been made by rhythm guitarists: Keef, John Lennon, the Edge. I like rhythm guitar a lot, probably because I began life as a music geek as a heavy-metal fan-- and most of the metal I liked focused on riffs just as much as guitar solos.

rob

[mattx110]

solos are there to explore the progression and build up energy. they serve the song as much as any rythm part, and if all you had was a rythm section, every pop song would get old fast, but the melody, whether pre-arranged or improvised keeps it interesting.
bucky pizzarelli is a "rythm" guitarist that could keep a song interesting by himself without a "lead". but for keith richards, and most rock guitarist rythm=series of repeated chord, and it is trickier to play lead. luckily keith does both, and plays with an extremely strong drummer and another guitarist (i looooove ron wood btw), keyboards and a horn section so he can play whatever part he feels like and still add to the music.

and clapton is under-rated. as his albums have gotten sappier, his live show has gotten better. it's too bad you need to mortgage your home to actually see his damn show.

and i agree way too much with bogart... nels cline, lofgren, ribot and mick jones all deserve an extra "GJ" above most working in their genre-bending areas.
neil young gets a bit annoying in large doses, but that real overdriven semi-atonal, behind the beat thing he does makes comically overdriven metal guitarplaying sound so... wimpy.
anyway, ron wood is a rock guy who just confuses me sometimes with what he can play. he plays "cleverer" than i'm expecting from a rythm and blues background.

and clapton and the rolling stones should prove judging musicians by their albums doesn't always work. they cut loose a bit more live, and when they have to play their old stuff you don't get a full set of clapton's reggae stylings. you get a mix.

[mattx110]

I've heard a few people imply that they weren't that impressed with Hedges and Carlton. You must have talked to only a few that knows them. Also, I don't think too much of Charlie Christian myself.



this is what we call crazy people.
i can understand getting tired of hedge's singing real fast. and i'm not sure there's a legit way of not being impressed by larry carlton. i don't really get how people how devalue skill and musicianship so easily... but that's more of a personal thing. i don't heckle unless they deserve it.:)

[howyadoin]

Someone who used to get a lot of ink 15-20 years ago as one of the greats, but is often overlooked today is Steve Cropper.

I'd also go with Frank Sampedro of Crazy Horse - anyone who has ever seen him play live and jam with Neil Young knows that he has great style, energy and creativity.Oh yeah. Those guys are huge.

Vernon reidI don't think I've ever heard anyone say Vernon Reid wasn't all that great.

Okay, not to poop on other people's parade (but isn't part of the fun of discussion the disagreements) but I just cannot wrap my head around the idea of Frank Zappa, Charlie Christian, Johnny Marr, Tom Morello, and Pete Townshend being underrated at all. These are probably some of the more widely recognised and acknowledged guitarists that have appeared on this list -- particularly Townshend who holds status as a well known rock icon.There does seem to be some confusion over the meaning of "underrated" in this thread.

I like rhythm guitar a lot, probably because I began life as a music geek as a heavy-metal fan-- and most of the metal I liked focused on riffs just as much as guitar solos.Speaking of which, I rarely see much praise for Malcolm Young's rhythm playing.

[Kara Zor El]

Okay, not to poop on other people's parade (but isn't part of the fun of discussion the disagreements) but I just cannot wrap my head around the idea of Frank Zappa, Charlie Christian, Johnny Marr, Tom Morello, and Pete Townshend being underrated at all. These are probably some of the more widely recognised and acknowledged guitarists that have appeared on this list -- particularly Townshend who holds status as a well known rock icon.

I said Zappa and Townsend because, most people talk about their song writing and not their Solos. And of course Zappa had other great guitar players in his band at times, who actually overshadowed him, like Via.

Townsend couldn't even play lead until the late 60's and was blown away by Hendrix. He got better in the 70's and plays incredible Solos then and now.
Lots of people don't know Zappa is a great Lead guitarist or Townsend. They wouldn't be included in a top 20 pole, I don't think.

I also mentioned Macca and that caused some debate.

He doesn't just play some great Solos on Beatle tracks but also in his Solo career.

I'm talking more about solos than rhythm work, which isn't quite what the thread is about.

And yeah the fun is disagreeing.;)

[Spike-X]

Lots of people don't know Zappa is a great Lead guitarist...


...


Bwuh?

[Kara Zor El]

...


Bwuh?

My dad doesn't. My mum doesn't. that zappa is a great lead guitarist. But they know Hendrix and Clapton are.

[Reptisaurus!]

I said Zappa and Townsend because, most people talk about their song writing and not their Solos. And of course Zappa had other great guitar players in his band at times, who actually overshadowed him, like Via.


Really? F.Z.'s a heck of a composer. Don't get me wrong.

But I still have trouble reconciling the term "great" with the lyrics "He took a dog doo snow-cone and rubbed it in my left eye. He took a dog doo snow cone and rubbed it in my RIGHT eye."

[Ilash]

solos are there to explore the progression and build up energy. they serve the song as much as any rythm part, and if all you had was a rythm section, every pop song would get old fast, but the melody, whether pre-arranged or improvised keeps it interesting.
bucky pizzarelli is a "rythm" guitarist that could keep a song interesting by himself without a "lead". but for keith richards, and most rock guitarist rythm=series of repeated chord, and it is trickier to play lead. luckily keith does both, and plays with an extremely strong drummer and another guitarist (i looooove ron wood btw), keyboards and a horn section so he can play whatever part he feels like and still add to the music.

and clapton is under-rated. as his albums have gotten sappier, his live show has gotten better. it's too bad you need to mortgage your home to actually see his damn show.

and i agree way too much with bogart... nels cline, lofgren, ribot and mick jones all deserve an extra "GJ" above most working in their genre-bending areas.
neil young gets a bit annoying in large doses, but that real overdriven semi-atonal, behind the beat thing he does makes comically overdriven metal guitarplaying sound so... wimpy.
anyway, ron wood is a rock guy who just confuses me sometimes with what he can play. he plays "cleverer" than i'm expecting from a rythm and blues background.

and clapton and the rolling stones should prove judging musicians by their albums doesn't always work. they cut loose a bit more live, and when they have to play their old stuff you don't get a full set of clapton's reggae stylings. you get a mix.

First, don't get me wrong, I like guitar solos. I'm a fan of classic rock, how on earth could I not like guitar solos. The problem is however, that there are solos that serve the song, enhance it even and there are those that are there just for the guitarist to show off with. Guess which kind I prefer. And I'm not even really talking about length here. What would the Allman Brothers be without their long guitar solos?

And I certainly agree about Clapton being better live (based on the videos and bootlegs I've seen and heard).

[jesse_custer]

Someone mentioned Chet Atkins earlier, and I definitely agree that he's overlooked. In all seriousness, he belongs in the top 25 guitarists of the last several decades.

I'm going to go a little more modern here: Kim Thayil of Soundgarden and Mato Nanji of Indigenous. Thayil was surprisingly versatile for a grunge guitarist, and a lot of his playing just sounded alien (see opening riffs on "Jesus Christ Pose" and "Rusty Cage"). Nanji is often overshadowed by less talented and younger blues/rock players like Kenny Wayne Shepherd (er), John Mayer (ugh), and Johnny Lang (UGH).

[howyadoin]

Townsend couldn't even play lead until the late 60's...I'm really having trouble parsing that statement.

[mattx110]

First, don't get me wrong, I like guitar solos. I'm a fan of classic rock, how on earth could I not like guitar solos. The problem is however, that there are solos that serve the song, enhance it even and there are those that are there just for the guitarist to show off with. Guess which kind I prefer. And I'm not even really talking about length here. What would the Allman Brothers be without their long guitar solos?

And I certainly agree about Clapton being better live (based on the videos and bootlegs I've seen and heard).

i'm not so caught up in the magic of "the song". i don't turn to good musicians to give me something simple so i have a idk, a different concept of song. i do agree with letting the thing breathe because well... if you're gonna play more than one tune, you don't wanna do everything you know on one. i think mark knopfler has a good grasp on using one motif per solo. either lots of pulloffs, or triplets or something more syncopated than usual. but i do love what most people think is "showing off".
the only time a fast super-flashy guitar solo won't work for me, is if it ignores the progression.

and pete townsend wasn't the best "lead player". he threw in a couple chord inversions to do something interesting during the lead breaks. it comes off a bit sloppy, but he used what he knew how to do in a good way, and it keeps the energy high. he also played single line bits with open strings ringing, which in certain keys, sounds great.

and chet atkins if the best guitarist of the 20th century. that's like, an observable fact. sorry segovia.

[Slam_Bradley]

Someone mentioned Chet Atkins earlier, and I definitely agree that he's overlooked. In all seriousness, he belongs in the top 25 guitarists of the last several decades.



This is were it becomes problematic to adequately define "underrated." Atkins set the standard for country guitar from the early 50s until his death. His only peer was Merle Travis. And again, that begs the question, was Travis underrated, and by whom? By the general public, probably. But not by people who know guitar.

Robert Johnson is another interesting case. Almost certainly better known as a singer/songwriter, he was a brilliant guitarist. But people who know guitar recognize that.

[howyadoin]

This is were it becomes problematic to adequately define "underrated." Atkins set the standard for country guitar from the early 50s until his death. His only peer was Merle Travis. And again, that begs the question, was Travis underrated, and by whom? By the general public, probably. But not by people who know guitar.And really, in this sort of a discussion the opinions of people who aren't into guitar are kind of...

I dunno, irrelevant?

[Voncaster]

I think Billy Corgan is not often thought of as a great guitarist. But when you break down the Smashing Pumpkins/Zwan...at its core is spacey guitar rock. I think its pretty good stuff, but I never hear Corgan mentioned as a great guitar player. I think he is.

[mattx110]

I think Billy Corgan is not often thought of as a great guitarist. But when you break down the Smashing Pumpkins/Zwan...at its core is spacey guitar rock. I think its pretty good stuff, but I never hear Corgan mentioned as a great guitar player. I think he is.

i'm confused. i've heard he's great a couple times, but i've never heard anything from him that proves it. but i really think i should take a closer look/listen.

[Voncaster]

Listen to Mary Star of the Sea (album and song)...I think you'll find the guitar work impressive.

[Ottmeister X]

It's all opinion and subjective, but if your choice falls on this list then he/she is probably not underrated . . . at least by his/her peers.

http://www.digitaldreamdoor.com/pages/best_guitar-all.html

At the bottom of the web page is some selections by genre for guitarists.

[Adam C]

My dad doesn't. My mum doesn't. that zappa is a great lead guitarist. But they know Hendrix and Clapton are.

My dad has heard of Zappa, but knows next to nothing about him save that he's "some weird guy."

On the other hand among guitar afficianados and reasonably knowledgeable music fans (I'm not even talking fanatics like myself) Zappa is pretty well recognised as a guitarist. The general public's tastes are incredibly fickle and transient. Eddie Lang was all over the place back in the 1920s, winning public renown as a jazz guitar soloist. Now he's more known to music fans than anyone else.


and clapton and the rolling stones should prove judging musicians by their albums doesn't always work. they cut loose a bit more live, and when they have to play their old stuff you don't get a full set of clapton's reggae stylings. you get a mix.

Personally I've watched several clips of Clapton live post Derek and the Dominoes and my opinion of him remains unchanged.

Interestingly enough, while I have next to no interest in their post-Exile work, based on the live clips I've seen (and attending their concert in Regina) I think very highly of the Stones as a live act.

[Adam C]

Man, can the ascendancy of the hard rock soloist be seen in anything but a bad light?

Not unless you work for or read Guitar World.

[the goddamn batman]

i'm confused. i've heard he's great a couple times, but i've never heard anything from him that proves it. but i really think i should take a closer look/listen.

Billy was finger tapping at 19. I mean, listen to Siamese Dream with headphones or, or jsut really loud. He literally solos under the entire record. He and Butch spent four months doing nothing but guitar overdubs after the 12 months of recording the album.

On, one of the songs (it escapes me now) there is a section of 24 ebowed acoustic guitars... just amazingly beautiful. Who else does that?

He is in fact, a fantastic guitar player. In that he's technically very very good, but knows how to just play a song too... and solo under it without just wanking.

It's too bad that Zwan and his solo record weren't very good. Maybe the new pumpkins record will be.

[jessecuster3]

Billy Corgan is just a fantastic musician all around. All of the instruments you hear on album are him, its only live that he has to have a band with him.

[Pinball]

It's all opinion and subjective, but if your choice falls on this list then he/she is probably not underrated . . . at least by his/her peers.

http://www.digitaldreamdoor.com/pages/best_guitar-all.html

At the bottom of the web page is some selections by genre for guitarists.
I saw Maybelle Carter and Speedy West on there. Okay...
1. Outside of country, who remembers Speedy?
2. Mention Maybelle Carter, and people tend to think "country royalty" long before "guitar innovator".

[Lone Ranger]

Anybody that doesn't rate Neil Young doesn't have ears. Even when his songwriting isn't up to snuff (does happen, albeit rarely) his guitar work often saves a song. And even when he's not playing lead he's great. I also second (or third, in Logfren's case) the nomination of Whitten and Logfren. Listen to Neil and Danny play around each other on Everybody Knows This is Nowhere or Logfren on Tonight's the Night.


I agree that Logfren and Whitten are great - I guess I only mentioned Pancho because I think he is less well known and more underrated that those two, especially Nils who had some pretty high profile gigs. All 3 gents kick ass.

The key to playing well with Neil is to be able to react to what he's doing and find the right groove. You rarely get sexy solos, but the interchanges are amazing - like a conversation between two guitars.

On Neil:

Back around 1992, Rolling Stone published a two-page picture of the 'great' rock 'n roll guitarist gathered together for the shot.

I wrote a letter to the mag stating "Where is Neil Young, or have you people never heard 'Cortez the Killer?"

My letter printed with a response that Neil was invited for the shoot, but wasn't able to attend.

[Lone Ranger]

When Mojo compiled a list of the greatest guitarists back in 1996, Cropper was rated number two behind Hendrix.



That's kind of what I was getting at in my earlier post - from the late 80s into the 90s, Cropper was named on all sorts of lists and invited to play all sorts of special gigs, but it seems like he's fallen off the map in the last decade or so.

Maybe I'm just not following the music press as much as I used to.

[jesse_custer]

Billy Corgan is just a fantastic musician all around. All of the instruments you hear on album are him, its only live that he has to have a band with him.

I'm pretty sure that's Jimmy Chamberlain who's playing on the albums. It would be stupid not to let one of the greatest modern drummers alive drum on your records.

[Jonathan Bogart]

I'm pretty sure that's Jimmy Chamberlain who's playing on the albums.
Sometimes yes, sometimes no. It depends on how godlike Billy's feeling at any given session.

[mattx110]

Billy was finger tapping at 19. I mean, listen to Siamese Dream with headphones or, or jsut really loud. He literally solos under the entire record. He and Butch spent four months doing nothing but guitar overdubs after the 12 months of recording the album.

On, one of the songs (it escapes me now) there is a section of 24 ebowed acoustic guitars... just amazingly beautiful. Who else does that?

He is in fact, a fantastic guitar player. In that he's technically very very good, but knows how to just play a song too... and solo under it without just wanking.

It's too bad that Zwan and his solo record weren't very good. Maybe the new pumpkins record will be.

then how come all i've seen is whining and strumming? it doesn't serve the song if you never notice it... i'll track something down.
i'll start with voncasters suggestion, but if i'm dissapointed...

[Matthew E]

I kind of like Joe Walsh as a guitarist, and I don't think he's been mentioned yet. Wasn't in that list that was just linked to, either. But I'm not sure I would have said he's underrated.

[ImpulseUCF]

I'm surprised nobody has mentioned Dave Mustaine. He basically writes ALL of Megadeth's music, rhythm, and lyrics AND plays half the leads. For a metal band, they have always been known for high technical proficiency, but I think Mustaine himself is overlooked as a solo player. Sure, he writes great riffs, but I think people forget that the man can SHRED! And it's not just an incoherent jumble of tapped out notes...Mustaine's solos have enough personality that they easily stand out on his work. He is a master of the organized chaos feel.

Very, very underrated musicial all-around and specifically for his shredding.

[Rattlehead]

I'm surprised nobody has mentioned Dave Mustaine. He basically writes ALL of Megadeth's music, rhythm, and lyrics AND plays half the leads. For a metal band, they have always been known for high technical proficiency, but I think Mustaine himself is overlooked as a solo player. Sure, he writes great riffs, but I think people forget that the man can SHRED! And it's not just an incoherent jumble of tapped out notes...Mustaine's solos have enough personality that they easily stand out on his work. He is a master of the organized chaos feel.

Very, very underrated musicial all-around and specifically for his shredding.

Dave Mustaine is very well respected within the Metal community. He's probably underrated by the Mainstream Music press, but he's certainly not in the Heavy Metal press.

[ImpulseUCF]

Dave Mustaine is very well respected within the Metal community. He's probably underrated by the Mainstream Music press, but he's certainly not in the Heavy Metal press.Agreed, and again, I don't think it is necessarily for his soloing skill. The man simply has chops and is a shredder. I think his songwriting and rhythm often steals the focus to the point others just forget he can shred. That's all.

[the goddamn batman]

then how come all i've seen is whining and strumming? it doesn't serve the song if you never notice it... i'll track something down.
i'll start with voncasters suggestion, but if i'm dissapointed...

Because you weren't listening? I dunno. Billy has ripped some serious shit on occasion, but the Pumpkins weren't really about that. IT was more about the songs. Which is something BIlly said he learned around 20. Who cares how well you can solo if you can't do it in a good song?

I've noticed it, and it certainly serves the song. You might not have noticed it's there, but you'd notice if it wasn't.;)

[howyadoin]

That's kind of what I was getting at in my earlier post - from the late 80s into the 90s, Cropper was named on all sorts of lists and invited to play all sorts of special gigs, but it seems like he's fallen off the map in the last decade or so.

Maybe I'm just not following the music press as much as I used to.There's an interesting account of Hendrix and Cropper meeting in a recent Hendrix bio, Roomful of Mirrors. Apparently Jimi was a huge fan.

[mattx110]

Because you weren't listening? I dunno. Billy has ripped some serious shit on occasion, but the Pumpkins weren't really about that. IT was more about the songs. Which is something BIlly said he learned around 20. Who cares how well you can solo if you can't do it in a good song?

I've noticed it, and it certainly serves the song. You might not have noticed it's there, but you'd notice if it wasn't.;)

songs=chords+melody+words. you can fit a whole lot of awesome guitar-playing within that if you try. you need people that can play well or all your songs are gonna sound roughly the same. it's nice to know within the albums this billy corgan fellow might have more depth, but "serving the song" is largely a myth people use as an excuse to suck.
if you're playing mustang sally, it serves the song to teach the front row some new tricks on your strat.
religious musicians need to "serve the song" to get the congregation/audience moving/praising, and there is a pretty high level of musicianship in religious music.
anyway, i might have been to turned off by corgan's "singing" to get close enough to an album to listen for guitar-playing.

and chet atkins finger-tapped back in the '50s. he also occasionally sweep-picked and never played anything that didn't serve the song, even if it meant singing (some guitarists greatest dream and worst nightmare at the same time). i know he's a legend, but he might even be under-rated.

and matt e. between joe walsh and ron wood, nobody in the world has as much fun playing guitar for people.

[Adam C]

songs=chords+melody+words. you can fit a whole lot of awesome guitar-playing within that if you try. you need people that can play well or all your songs are gonna sound roughly the same.

Possibly, though to offer another perspective, from my experience with seventies punk I have found that as long as the musicians are creative enough as songwriters their stuff won't necessarily sound roughly the same. Case in point the Buzzcocks, whose propulsive singles all stood out from each other despite their primitive technique and heavy repetition of their lyrics. Its worth noting that Chicago blues guitarists had much more skill and there was still a lot of similarity between the songs due to the parameters and conventions of the genre.

Well that, and from my experience I have found you can be an extremely skilled player and still make your songs sound samey because you don't have much to offer in the way of songwriting acumen. See most 80s shred guitar, but especially Ywgnie Malmsteen.

[the goddamn batman]

songs=chords+melody+words. you can fit a whole lot of awesome guitar-playing within that if you try. you need people that can play well or all your songs are gonna sound roughly the same. it's nice to know within the albums this billy corgan fellow might have more depth, but "serving the song" is largely a myth people use as an excuse to suck.


I'm not sure what point you're trying to make here... Billy has used his technical ability IN the well writen songs. His 'serving the song' is hardley an excuse for sucking.

[Buried Alien]

What about John Lennon? Lennon's rhythm guitar playing is hardly ever discussed, and while his style was hardly virtuoso, it was a key component of the Beatles' instrumental sound. Could you imagine any other rhythm guitarist driving the Beatles' sound?

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

[The Mirrorball Man]

Graham Coxon, who used to be Blur's guitarist, is definitely underrated, in my opinion.

[Kara Zor El]

What about John Lennon? Lennon's rhythm guitar playing is hardly ever discussed, and while his style was hardly virtuoso, it was a key component of the Beatles' instrumental sound. Could you imagine any other rhythm guitarist driving the Beatles' sound?

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

The Beatles are my top band but Lennon's guitar playing was limited. He was embarressed of it himself. It was perfect for the band as you say but I don't think he's underated. His ability to make great noise with effects, and come with great chords and riffs was a great power of his but I think that's a seperate thing to technical ability.

[Buried Alien]

The Beatles are my top band but Lennon's guitar playing was limited. He was embarressed of it himself. It was perfect for the band as you say but I don't think he's underated. His ability to make great noise with effects, and come with great chords and riffs was a great power of his but I think that's a seperate thing to technical ability.

True, but who says that great musicianship is defined solely or even primarily by technical ability?

Some of the guys getting slagged right now over on the "overrated guitarists" thread have motherlodes of technical ability, but are getting slagged anyway because their musicianship is lacking in other, non-technical areas.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

[the goddamn batman]

I agree that underrated or overrated doesn't really have to do with technical ability... unless said guitar player is knonw for bieng technically great.

John was a great rythm guitar player, and no, I can't really imagine anyone else beyond George playing guitar for the Beatles... not even Paul. Though, the problem forr me is that John never really shined as a guitarist in The Beatles. Maybe his vocal and compositional skills just outshined it.

[Ilash]

I'm a gigantic Beatles fan but Lennon's rythm playing has never really jumped out at me to the point that I can't imagine anyone else doing his guitar parts. The same can't be said for George's lead guitar playing, Paul's bass work and Ringo's drumming. No, John's strengths don't really lie in his instrumental skills but in his singing and sogwriting.

[Dennis K]

None of them.

[jessecuster3]

Tony Rice!

[Kara Zor El]

True, but who says that great musicianship is defined solely or even primarily by technical ability?

Some of the guys getting slagged right now over on the "overrated guitarists" thread have motherlodes of technical ability, but are getting slagged anyway because their musicianship is lacking in other, non-technical areas.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

I just don't think Lennon is an underrated guitarist. a contempory of his at the time was Townsend. Who was a far superior rythm guitarist.

However McCartney is an underrated Bass Player.

His bass from 66 onwards is amazing. All those melodical walking bass lines and the flurishes on Rain are amazing stuff.

[leonaozaki]

Graham Coxon, who used to be Blur's guitarist, is definitely underrated, in my opinion.

No kidding. His playing on Parklife is astounding.

rob

[Ilash]

I just don't think Lennon is an underrated guitarist. a contempory of his at the time was Townsend. Who was a far superior rythm guitarist.

However McCartney is an underrated Bass Player.

His bass from 66 onwards is amazing. All those melodical walking bass lines and the flurishes on Rain are amazing stuff.

Macca is an incredible bass guitarists, no two ways about it but isn't that a generally accepted fact by most people?

[Ilash]

How about Martin Bare from Jethro Tull. He is (or perhaps was - his playing has gotten more generic as he has gotten older) a really fine guitarist and a big component of Tull's sound. Except that Ian Anderson bloke, that is. Of course, I actually think all of the members of Stand Up-era Tull, in particular are fairly overlooked but considering how few members of this board are Tull admirers, I don't see myself getting that much support for this.

[leonaozaki]

How about Martin Bare from Jethro Tull. He is (or perhaps was - his playing has gotten more generic as he has gotten older) a really fine guitarist and a big component of Tull's sound. Except that Ian Anderson bloke, that is. Of course, I actually think all of the members of Stand Up-era Tull, in particular are fairly overlooked but considering how few members of this board are Tull admirers, I don't see myself getting that much support for this.

Dude, Ian Anderson played the flute backwards-- and didn't know it! How much respect do you think he's going to get?

rob

[leonaozaki]

Dave Mustaine is very well respected within the Metal community. He's probably underrated by the Mainstream Music press, but he's certainly not in the Heavy Metal press.

Exactly. In my metal days I always respected Mustaine for his musicianship and his ability to play incredibly fast, even if I thought he was at best an adequate singer.

But I still dig 'em.

rob

[Ilash]

Dude, Ian Anderson played the flute backwards-- and didn't know it! How much respect do you think he's going to get?

rob

Really? That's pretty funny. Of course, I love his flute playing so it doesn't really make that much difference to me and I do stand by the musicianship of that era's Tull being really impressive on the whole.

[leonaozaki]

What about John Lennon? Lennon's rhythm guitar playing is hardly ever discussed, and while his style was hardly virtuoso, it was a key component of the Beatles' instrumental sound. Could you imagine any other rhythm guitarist driving the Beatles' sound?

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

I'm asking this without any snark at all: are there any specific songs where Lennon's playing really plays a crucial part in the song?

I'm thinking about this because I'm listening to "Bitch" by the Rolling Stones with Mick Taylor's lead coming out of the left speaker and Keef's guitar out of the left, and I can't imagine anybody but Keef playing that part-- and that part, moreover, is instrumental to the song.

rob

[Ilash]

I'm thinking about this because I'm listening to "Bitch" by the Rolling Stones with Mick Taylor's lead coming out of the left speaker and Keef's guitar out of the left, and I can't imagine anybody but Keef playing that part-- and that part, moreover, is instrumental to the song.

rob

Man, that has got to be one of the all-time greatest headphone songs. It brings out the Keef/ Mick T interplay in a way that listening to it through stereo speakers doesn't even hint at.

[Lone Ranger]

Another name came to mind last night.

I've always thought that Joni Mitchell was an excellent guitarist - but since there's a lot of acoustic and she's generally seen as the 'singer-songwriter' archetype, her guitar playing is often overlooked.

Her playing is never terribly aggressive, but it is pretty flawless, quirky and she definitely has her own 'sound'.

[parrish]

I see Joni Mitchell on a lot of "Best Guitarist" list. I think she definately deserves it, but there are lists where she should have been, but wasn't.

[Tish-the-Scorpion]

I don't think I've ever heard anyone say Vernon Reid wasn't all that great..i rarely hear him get mentioned.if he's not underrated then he's definitely over looked.

[Tish-the-Scorpion]

It's all opinion and subjective, but if your choice falls on this list then he/she is probably not underrated . . . at least by his/her peers.

http://www.digitaldreamdoor.com/pages/best_guitar-all.html

At the bottom of the web page is some selections by genre for guitarists.
HA! i see they listed johnny guitar watson in the underrated section :p

[Spike-X]

i rarely hear him get mentioned.if he's not underrated then he's definitely over looked.
Maybe these days. I guess you weren't reading a lot of guitar magazines in the early-mid 90s.

[howyadoin]

i rarely hear him get mentioned.if he's not underrated then he's definitely over looked.
Maybe these days. I guess you weren't reading a lot of guitar magazines in the early-mid 90s.Spike's got it.

And personally, I think the guy is godlike.