Supergirl #18

[DarkCrisis]

No Im not going to recap it cause frankly the more I think about it the madder I get.

I really like how the past issue or 2 was a big "dream".

And frankly having Silver Age Kara tell us how Supergirl should act? I was AGREEING WITH HER.

Then of course new Kara comes back with "Don't mess with the crazy bitch cause I'm caarrrzzzzyyy!!!" Yea thats how I want my Supergirl :rolleyes:

And for the writer to try to prove that not all girls have perfect lives? Well DUR. That doesnt mean all of them are depressed 99% of the time. Take your little "sad girls and thier crappy lives montage" and blow it out your butt.

And the art? HORRID. The artist from last issue only did the last few pages. Most of the issue is by some other guy and it was horrible.

[Joe-Dono]

I take it you didnt like it then.

One question from a none supergirl reader why ws it supergirl vs supergirl?

I noticed the cover in the shop today but didnt pic it up.

[DarkCrisis]

Simplist terms: Fake Supergirl testing the 'real' Supergirl.

[Jack Zodiac]

And frankly having Silver Age Kara tell us how Supergirl should act? I was AGREEING WITH HER.

Y'know... I've been ragging on this new Supergirl for the past year or so because she's been selfish, she's been unheroic and more accepting of her flaws than interested in overcoming them, and for the past three or four issues I've finally seen Kara try and overcome her own problems instead of ignoring or even running from them, and in a way confronting the "perfect" Supergirl was the culmination of overcoming her own insecurities...

...but this issue was pure, concentrated crap. We got a ridiculously ham-fisted metatextual kick in the face about who Joe Kelly thinks this Supergirl is, despite not having shown her in anything vaguely reflective of his view. His Supergirl, in his own words, "has the same problems [her readers] have." That alone is ridiculous, but what's even more ridiculous is her triumphant speech after overcoming the "perfect" Supergirl: "I am mess up. I make mistakes all the time. I feel stupid and scared and ugly and insecure, just like everybody else, but when I blow it, I don't shrivel up and die. I get myself up. I try to do better. I always try again."

The reason I quit buying this book in the first place was because I was sick and tired of watching Supergirl fail constantly. Don't get me wrong, imperfections in a hero are what make their characters more than just knights in spandex. Flaws become character traits when those characters overcome those flaws, but I can't think of any time during this series where Kara had actually managed to overcome her selfishness, her insecurities, and her mistakes, until... what, three issues ago?

I'm glad she's finally moving along as a character, but making her out to have been a strong-willed character from the beginning of this run until now in one terribly forced speech was just bad writing. Maybe "I'm done messing up, I'm done making mistakes, I'm done feeling stupid and scared and ugly and insecure..." would've been better fitting. Either way, I'm glad we're done with this crap now, and hopefully the next few months of Supergirl will read more like a teenage superheroine book than an emotional curbstomping.

One question from a none supergirl reader why ws it supergirl vs supergirl?

The other Supergirl was an illusion created to force Supergirl to confront her problems.

[Captain Smith]

I have no idea what is happening in this book. Totally not worth figuring out the plot line.

So when will Silver Age real Kara come back from the dead? Crisis VII?

[drwho]

why do so many people still buy it?

[DarkCrisis]

why do so many people still buy it?

I have 2 reason

Despite the massive flaws in this book it still contains one of my fave characters, even though she's acting like a twat.

I also have hope that it will get better.

[drwho]

I read this up to where she was tonguing her cousin oyl. Some things I liked about her was the fact that she had that dark part in her some and the fact she was sent to assasinate Ka el. Just executing the whole story has been smellier than fecal matter The writer doesnt seem to know how to write about these things in good stories.

[ToxicTeen]

Goodness, so much SuperGirl hatred. :( I feel like I'm the only one here who actually likes the current SuperGirl series...I thought issue #18 was pretty good IMO.

[Alerex]

Goodness, so much SuperGirl hatred. :( I feel like I'm the only one here who actually likes the current SuperGirl series...I thought issue #18 was pretty good IMO.

Dont worry you are not alone. I like this Supergirl too.

[DarkCrisis]

I think this supergirl can be written well. It's been done. Problem is most of the tales told of her have been really sucked. Like this last one. This has to be one of the stupidest origin stories ever created, not meant as a joke.

There is potential but so far 95% of the stories written about her so far have been ass.

[Young Avenger]

I liked this issue. I hated the perfect Supergirl. She was uninteresting, felt everything she said about Kara was a bunch of crap and she was too artifical. I can understand why Mia hates perfect superheroes.

[Jack Zodiac]

That metaheroine kicking the crap out of Kara was hardly a fair representation of the Silver Age Supergirl. It smacked more of Joe going, "it's either this extreme or that extreme but nothing in-between." Hopefully, though, we get that in-between Supergirl soon enough.

[Sean Walsh]

why do so many people still buy it?

Oh trust me, "so many people" aren't buying this anymore. Audience has been *at least* halved since the first few issues.


05/2006: Supergirl #6 — 102,860 (- 0.2%)
06/2006: –
07/2006: Supergirl #7 — 85,175 (-17.2%)
07/2006: Supergirl #8 — 76,942 (- 9.7%)
08/2006: Supergirl #9 — 74,252 (- 3.5%)
09/2006: Supergirl #10 — 67,358 (- 9.3%)
10/2006: –
11/2006: Supergirl #11 — 62,544 (- 7.2%)
12/2006: Supergirl #12 — 59,819 (- 4.4%)
12/2006: Supergirl #13 — 56,648 (- 5.3%)
01/2007: –
02/2007: Supergirl #14 — 52,977 (- 6.5%)
03/2007: Supergirl #15 — 51,083 (- 3.6%)
04/2007: Supergirl #16 — 51,641 (+ 1.1%)


#1-5 had numbers in the 100-120K area IIRC. Loeb's arc, pre-OYL, sold very well.

[ToxicTeen]

Oh trust me, "so many people" aren't buying this anymore. Audience has been *at least* halved since the first few issues.

Well the thing is I'm more of a graphic novel person and I usually wait till the TPB comes out.(One some occasions I do tend to get single issues) And fortunately for me, the latest TPB SuperGirl:Identity, which will have issues #10-19 which is the rest of Joe Kelly's run, will come out in Novemeber. And I will be getting it. :D

[Alerex]

Oh trust me, "so many people" aren't buying this anymore. Audience has been *at least* halved since the first few issues.


Lets play the numbers game!

Supergirl

04/2002: Supergirl #69 — 19,246

04/2007: Supergirl #16 — 51,641


04/2007: Supergirl & LoSH #29 — 30,906

THE BRAVE AND THE BOLD

02/2007: The Brave and the Bold #1 — 92,091
03/2007: The Brave and the Bold #2 — 64,357
04/2007: The Brave and the Bold #3 — 59,211

GREEN LANTERN CORPS

06/2006: Green Lantern Corps #1 — 76,686
07/2006: Green Lantern Corps #2 — 56,886
08/2006: Green Lantern Corps #3 — 51,485
09/2006: Green Lantern Corps #4 — 46,619
10/2006: Green Lantern Corps #5 — 43,546
11/2006: Green Lantern Corps #6 — 41,089
12/2006: Green Lantern Corps #7 — 38,737
01/2007: Green Lantern Corps #8 — 36,924
02/2007: Green Lantern Corps #9 — 34,897
03/2007: Green Lantern Corps #10 — 34,227
03/2007: Green Lantern Corps #11 — 33,506


So, The current Supergirl outsold the last series, and I liked the PAD Supergirl. It also out sells the version of Kara with the Legion of Superheroes. And it looks like some books lose about half of the readers.

[KET]

Lets play the numbers game!

Okay, but this method NEVER determines quality of reading. As an old saying goes, "sh!t floats to the top of the toilet bowl".


So, The current Supergirl outsold the last series, and I liked the PAD Supergirl. It also out sells the version of Kara with the Legion of Superheroes. And it looks like some books lose about half of the readers.

The last SUPERGIRL series didn't end at #69. Nice try, but no. Besides, if you REALLY want to make a MORE ACCURATE COMPARISON of sales numbers between the two, you should probably look at the SAME ISSUE #s from both series to better determine this one's staying power. The last series made it to #80, longer than any other Supergirl series, WITH LITTLE OR NO HYPE in most cases; this HEAVILY HYPED, VARIANT-COVERED reboot's already hemmoraging badly, and it isn't even #20 yet.


Also, to be blunt, using Diamond's sales figures TO COMICS RETAILERS only proves to be INACCURATE AT BEST when determining ACTUAL SALES TO CONSUMERS.

However, to play devil's advocate on this point, I think a LOT of people are simply buying this series merely to keep 'watching the train wreck' each issue. That's hardly a ringing endorsement for continued success. ;)

[KET]

That metaheroine kicking the crap out of Kara was hardly a fair representation of the Silver Age Supergirl. It smacked more of Joe going, "it's either this extreme or that extreme but nothing in-between."

Exactly. Basically, Kelly merely set up a 'fake Supergirl' as a strawman argument for "perfection", when the Silver Age SG was NEVER EVER about perfection in the first place. If anything, the current Kara is more like a brain-damaged "Barbie doll" with a bad hairdo and poor self-stylin'. Not only that, but using Dark Angel, who has never had ANY relationship to Supergirl? Totally out of left field, or in reality, more meta commentary from Joe? :D

[Omega the Unknown]

I just wanna know when they are gonna resolve how kara is in the future with the legion and in the present in her current mag and why they have two different personalities?

I'm a patient man, but it has been a while.

[SKETCHSANCHEZ]

I just wanna know when they are gonna resolve how kara is in the future with the legion and in the present in her current mag and why they have two different personalities?

I'm a patient man, but it has been a while.

It's already been explained how she got there (The big explosion in space during IC sent her to the future), and when she came back (during WWIII). Seriously, she could be in the future for years if they wanted her to and all they would have to do is make sure that when they send her back it matches with how she came back in WWIII.

As for why they have two different personalities, I honestly dont see it. Other than being a bit sweeter and a bit more vapid in the future, they're not all that different and besides, their circumstances and situations are different. Kara in the future is a part of a huge team of fellow teenagers, currently fighting a WAR with the dominators. Here, shes been trying to re-find her place. i mean, imagine you were suddenly in a place where you had tons of friends who were almost just like you, you belonged, and then suddenly you're back "home" and now you gotta adjust all over again. Of course you'd be a little bit different.

As for the real answer, theres two different writers. Thats it. Thats why you may feel lke they got two different personailites. Waid had said in a word balloon interview, if I remember correctly, that they could write her however they want in her book, to him Supergirl is just a sweet girl and he'll be writing her that way. He wrote her the same way in The Brave and The bold,

As for the issue, I enjoyed it and have been enjoying the series since Kandor ended. For some reaon, i really like that her response to the monitor saying the universe has chosen her for great things and to go live her life was simply "Cool." The art was completely crap though, that guy was all wrong, so wrong it wasnt even funny.

I want to look forward to where the book is going but this new "realistic supergirl" we appear to be getting I aint so hot on. I dont read this book for cheese cake, but those sketches made her look like Batman & Robin era Alicia Silverstone with her knobby knees *shudder* :p

[Ice_Cold_Emma_Frost]

I must be in the minority.

I HATED last issue but this one made a LOT more sense and felt more like the previous issues (in a good way)

I do agree that the art was horrid. I don't care how many people didn't like Churchill he was a LOT better than this crap.

What this issue brought:

-The Major thing was that this was a test by the Monitors (a Countdown tie-in, which was a surprise b/c there was NO mention of it) but it made sense because a ton of people thought Kara wasn't the real deal and these past two issues were the monitors testing Kara to make sure she wasn't an imposter. Still would've been nice to know this before last issue. It's something that needed to be done.

-Anyone that agrees with the fake supergirl needs to stop reading the book. There was one part where the fake one says
"look at how bad my life was, pain and suffering, daddy is a monster who made me a monster too. Everyone treats me like a pariah and a freak. Does that sound like a hero to you? someone girls can aspire to be? supergirl is happy. I'm firey! i'm inspirational! People look to supergirl to forget their problems to see someone who can teach them to do it better. Who wants a supergirl with the same problems they have?"

and they intercut that with scenes of girls (not Kara) in difficult situations. I think this issue was good because it showed:

"here you can have the fake supergirl that's superficial and acts like Miss Martian without a care in the world OR you can have someone you can relate to"


I'd rather have the one we can relate to and even Kara says:

"i am messed up, i make mistakes all the time, i feel stupid and scared and ugly and insecure just like everybody else...but when i blow it I dont shrivel up and die. I get myself up and I try to do better. I always try again. And no half-baked barbie doll is going to tell me different"


And I think that's awesome! It's like a letter to readers that dont 'get' the series or what Kara is about. Sure she isn't the perfect hero, she isn't superman, she's something better...she's flawed, she makes mistakes she's just like the rest of us and the situations that she's in are symbolic/metaphors for what girls/women/boy/men go through in their lives.

[jgphenom]

I still have no idea what part of her past was real and what part was made up by the monitor. And what ever happened to the second Kara that arrived from the future in WWIII?

[Ice_Cold_Emma_Frost]

From the time Father Box blew up everything was an illusion the monitor said his assistant grabbed her when it exploded.

that's the way i interpreted it

[Kage Kisaragi]

im so glad im not you darkcrisis. Don't take this the wrong way, but do you like living in a fantasy land as oppose to just realizing this isnt kids stuff? What do you think THE TRUE Kara's preaching about messing up was all about? This entire issue was backslap in the face for everyone who was so adament about how Kara should be more like her Silver Age self, little Ms Perfect. I hope the rest of the people who have posted in the past on this comic have gotten what they wanted in a brief glimsp into the cheesy BS that was Silver Age Supergirl, that campy **** doesnt sell comics these days and she couldnt have been more wrong when she said. "People don't want to look at a supergirl who has problems just like theirs." BS! It's the reason why most of us read comics in the first place, because they have problems similar to ours or to real world ones but are more exaggerated on. Who here hasnt seen something bad happening but rather stop it and get involved kept on going?

No offense, not attacking anyone but I nearly LOL when I read this issue and realized Kelly wasn't caving into critizism.

[Mia]

Dont worry you are not alone. I like this Supergirl too.


So do I...though it appears that we will be loosing her. :(

[Young Avenger]

So do I...though it appears that we will be loosing her. :(

Are you talking about the changes Tony Bedard will make in his 3-issue stunt on the book?

[KET]

What do you think THE TRUE Kara's preaching about messing up was all about?

BS, and more meta commentary by Kelly, considering that the current SG usually does little except whine and angst about herself in nearly every issue. At this point, it would be a refreshing change of pace if she actually got down to doing something HEROIC.



This entire issue was backslap in the face for everyone who was so adament about how Kara should be more like her Silver Age self, little Ms Perfect.

...which is a TOTAL BILL OF GOODS Kelly and Co. sold you on. Silver Age SG was NEVER "little Ms Perfect", which is why Kelly's strawman "perfect SG" mockery totally falls apart.



I hope the rest of the people who have posted in the past on this comic have gotten what they wanted in a brief glimsp into the cheesy BS that was Silver Age Supergirl,


Obviously, you've never read her.


"People don't want to look at a supergirl who has problems just like theirs." BS! It's the reason why most of us read comics in the first place, because they have problems similar to ours

True enough. However, Kelly has NEVER explored any real life issues with 'new' Kara, choosing instead to adapt whatever leering controversy some overexposed Hollywood socialite has gotten herself noticed in the tabloids this week.


but I nearly LOL when I read this issue and realized Kelly wasn't caving into critizism.

Actually, he employed a 'classic' GWB-styled DEFLECTION instead of actually answering his critics. How mature of him. :rolleyes:

Of course, he's already LEAVING the sandbox in another issue, and this one sounds more and more like his temper tantrum as he's being carried away.....

[SKETCHSANCHEZ]

Are you talking about the changes Tony Bedard will make in his 3-issue stunt on the book?

Cant speak for her, but I feel the same way she does and its because of what you said.

[Young Avenger]

Cant speak for her, but I feel the same way she does and its because of what you said.

It shouldn't be a cause for concern for now. Bedard is only signed to write three issues. Those issues are Amazon Attack tie-ins. It's uncertain if his changes will stick or if he will become new regular writer.

[Jack Zodiac]

No offense, not attacking anyone but I nearly LOL when I read this issue and realized Kelly wasn't caving into critizism.

d00d, me 2! i LOLed so much I nearly ROFLMAOed into my OMGWTFBBQ!

Have you ever actually read any Silver Age Supergirl stories? You probably haven't, and neither has Joe Kelly. Like I said before, this wasn't a Silver Age Supergirl vs. today's Kara Zor-El, it was Kelly's malformed interpretation of what his critics described as their perfect Supergirl versus today's "struggling, realistic, teenage rolemodel" Supergirl. To be perfectly blunt, both of his interpretations of Supergirl (even his own interpretation of the Supergirl he's been writing for the past year) were pure horseshit.

[Alerex]

It shouldn't be a cause for concern for now. Bedard is only signed to write three issues. Those issues are Amazon Attack tie-ins. It's uncertain if his changes will stick or if he will become new regular writer.

The concern is, will people come back after the three issues? It is a massive change in appearance and personality. I will be dropping this book next week and I dont know if I will come back after these issues are done.

I fear sales will drop and Supergirl will be canceled. If others start reading the book and sales do not drop and Bedard stays on I will just walk away.

[Young Avenger]

The concern is, will people come back after the three issues? It is a massive change in appearance and personality. I will be dropping this book next week and I dont know if I will come back after these issues are done.

I fear sales will drop and Supergirl will be canceled. If others start reading the book and sales do not drop and Bedard stays on I will just walk away.

Don't you think your jumping the gun there? I expect for more people to jump in since Bedard has developed a fanbase with his stuff at Crossgen and doing Exiles for Marvel and writing issues of Legion of Superheroes. I liked what I read from Bedard and I'm going to give his issues a chance. You should atleast read his first issue before deciding to drop it.

[Alerex]

Yes I am jumping the gun. But I have not read anything by Bedard and his take on Supergirl does not inspire confidence in me.

[SensorBoy]

Evil Black Kryptonite Supergirl was much more interesting than the "normal" Kara has become.

I can only take so much Emo.

Just stick her with the JSA, or the Marvels. They won't take any crap from her.



The revolving door art policy is making me dizzy, too. Sometimes excellent, sometimes dire. Sometimes all the female characters have severe Scoliosis.

[Captain Mobra]

It's funny to me almost. It seems that this Supergirl is supposed to be as flawed as possible, almost super flawed. As if she goes through every problem that a normal person but to an hyperextreme degree. To that effect pretty much everything about her is hyperextreme. Her looks, of course it's been stated that were she a real person she'd die within a few weeks, yet somehow she's totally fine. She's even presented as very beautiful yet is often made fun of for looking as such.

So basically. She super-screws up then super-gets back on the super-horse, but because she's just like every other super-girl.

Maybe I'm wrong.

[Captain Mobra]

I can only take so much Emo.You don't know what emo means do you?

[SKETCHSANCHEZ]

I'm not picking up next weeks issue either. I dropped LOSH when he came on, I didnt even know Waid was gone already (and I didnt expect him to leave in the middle of the war with the dominators and not finish out the storyline), but everything felt off and I didnt like it.

[Ice_Cold_Emma_Frost]

At this point, it would be a refreshing change of pace if she actually got down to doing something HEROIC.

Why? There are entire teams and dozens of solos series of DC characters that already do that. If you want another boring super hero that saves the day go read one of them.


True enough. However, Kelly has NEVER explored any real life issues with 'new' Kara, choosing instead to adapt whatever leering controversy some overexposed Hollywood socialite has gotten herself noticed in the tabloids this week.

Are you kidding me!?

All this book has done is explore real life issues.
-Alien from space/Culture shock of being in a different place/country
-abusive father that she's trying not to become
-abusive/obsessive boyfriend
-trying to fit into various super hero teams
-trying to be normal and have friends
-not knowing your purpose in life
-not knowing who you are

I don't know what messed up little world you live in but these are issues normal people go through everyday. Your SAD attempt to equate Kara with Paris Hilton makes absolutely no sense.

Actually, he employed a 'classic' GWB-styled DEFLECTION instead of actually answering his critics. How mature of him. :rolleyes:

Critics are professionals that get paid to make comments, bitching fanboys are a whole 'nother realm.

You missed the point of this issue ENTIRELY.....The 'silver age' supergirl was NOT a literal representation....she WAS a representation of what Kara thought she HAD to be and yes it is a commentary about what people like you think she should be, but that wasn't the point of the story.


If you don't like kara, guess what, there are about 4 other versions of Supergirl floating around. Go read those issues and be happy!

[Ice_Cold_Emma_Frost]

Her looks, of course it's been stated that were she a real person she'd die within a few weeks, yet somehow she's totally fine.

Can you explain this to me? the only difference b/w Kara and any other Super heroine is that she has normal sized breasts and so that automatically makes her 'too thin'?

If Powergirl were real she'd break her back. This "reality" thing is BS...its a friggin comic book.

[SensorBoy]

You don't know what emo means do you?

Emo means "Supergirl", in this context.


It wouldn't be so bad, if she'd just take the obvious course of action, once in a while.

Just tell Clark that Zor-el mindjacked her. It's not like he's going to to have Bruce bring the Special-K over. Hell, tell Wonder Girl.

But no, she's going it solo, and bemoans the fact that no one understands why she acts like a psycho. Hint: they don't understand because you keep telling them there's nothing wrong.

[DarkCrisis]

You guys do realize not every teenage girl is emotional mess right? I've met a fair share of teen girls in my day and most of them were not super emo "craaazzy" like new Kara.

[Kid Kamikaze10]

Have you ever actually read any Silver Age Supergirl stories? You probably haven't, and neither has Joe Kelly. Like I said before, this wasn't a Silver Age Supergirl vs. today's Kara Zor-El, it was Kelly's malformed interpretation of what his critics described as their perfect Supergirl versus today's "struggling, realistic, teenage rolemodel" Supergirl. To be perfectly blunt, both of his interpretations of Supergirl (even his own interpretation of the Supergirl he's been writing for the past year) were pure horseshit.

Thank you! Even though I actually liked this issue (the first time I liked a SG issue), that was the definition of ham-fisted. Forced commentary at it's worst (Winnick/Grayson-esque).

But, as I said, I liked this issue, and like the direction they may take this character. But if what the solicit have been saying about Amazon Attacks is true (SG and WG betraying the heroes for the Amazons), then I've got no sympathy to either character.

We've talking about siding with people that have been killing men, women, and children for a useless cause. If that's not completely stupid, I don't know what is.

[Ice_Cold_Emma_Frost]

I'm surprised no one's talking about the Countdown tie in.....it came out of NO WHERE. Honestly if they had said "these two issues tie into DCs countdown" it would've made more sense from the start.


I like that kara keeps things to herself. Yes it'd be nice if everyone shared their feelings, but really what are Wondergirl and Superman going to do? She doesnt even know, especially now, if her memories are accurate.

And Dark Crisis just b/c you've met a girl doesn't mean you know what its like to BE one. Some of the most "together" girls/women you may have encountered are probably the most emotionally conflicted internally you'd ever meet.

[Thomas]

I just read all 18 issues of Supergirl, and what bothered me most was the changes to her origin. The angsty stuff and not knowing where to fit in doesn't bother me so much, the character is fairly new and that makes sense. It feels like they're dragging it out at this point and it really needs to be tied up, as at this point she's been on Earth for over a year in universe, but meh. It's not awful. But the stuff with her back on Kyrpton, what the hell? She killed her own mother. Why was that necessarry? The fact that her entire planet is gone isn't dark enough? They have to go and grim-n-gritty up even that?

"Oh, no, it's sad that every one she knows is dead and all, but what's even sadder is if she and her father killed their whole neighborhood because they were possessed by demons, and then every one else died! Also, we fucked with her memories. Also, she's been brainwashed into being an assassin out to get Superman. So now she's like half Superman, half Wolverine, and all sexay!"

And the last issue, jeez. It's 22 pages of Joe Kelly saying "My Supergirl is awesome and realistic and if you like the old version better you're a stupidface!

I really don't like where they've gone with the character at all. And Joe Kelly was so damned good Action and JLA.

[Sean Whitmore]

And frankly having Silver Age Kara tell us how Supergirl should act? I was AGREEING WITH HER.

Same here.

I actually found the issue quite funny. When the "villain" of the story makes THAT much sense to you, it becomes crystal-clear that you are not the book's target demographic.


SEAN

[Aegis Armor]

But, also, once again, someone is stalking Supergirl in an attempt to recruit her to their side:

First, Wonder Woman, who then kidnaps her for "training."

Then Darkseid, who kidnaps (and "brainwashes") her.

Then, some unknown man 'monitors' her abilities.

Then, Luthorsuit Gundam, who uses Black Kryptonite on her.

Then, Saturn Queen and Ultraman, who attempt to seduce her to the "Dark Side"

Then, the Boomer/Powerboy mess - which included some obsessive/compulsive behavior on the order of stalking.

I'm not going to include the League of Assassins debacle.

And now, the "Fake" Supergirl, and in the end, Kara was just being "monitored."

And all of that pales in comparison to Zor-El's actions. (Is she evil? Is she not? How about now?)

In other words, running in circles at super-speed...again.


Aegis Armor

[Paperghost]

isn't this the writers final hurrah on this comic?

the issue said to me that he took all the concerns, the criticisms and objections to the way this character has been handled and....told them to suck it.

i've seen comic creators object to the way people reading their comics weren't particularly fond of the way they were doing things, but its about the first time i've ever seen 32 pages of "f*** you" shoved down their throat while being charged 3 dollars for the privilege.

i'm just waiting for the day brad meltzer turns up on someones doorstep and punches them in the face.

[Jack Zodiac]

I can't wait, either. Maybe if someone breaks his hands, he'll finally stop writing crappy comics.

[Mia]

Are you talking about the changes Tony Bedard will make in his 3-issue stunt on the book?


Yep. Not to mention the rumoured changes that I understand that DC want to make to her. I think they want to turn her into an idealisezed 'Pollyanna' or if you will Superman with breasts. What a shame.

[ToxicTeen]

I must be in the minority.

I HATED last issue but this one made a LOT more sense and felt more like the previous issues (in a good way)

I do agree that the art was horrid. I don't care how many people didn't like Churchill he was a LOT better than this crap.

What this issue brought:

-The Major thing was that this was a test by the Monitors (a Countdown tie-in, which was a surprise b/c there was NO mention of it) but it made sense because a ton of people thought Kara wasn't the real deal and these past two issues were the monitors testing Kara to make sure she wasn't an imposter. Still would've been nice to know this before last issue. It's something that needed to be done.

-Anyone that agrees with the fake supergirl needs to stop reading the book. There was one part where the fake one says
"look at how bad my life was, pain and suffering, daddy is a monster who made me a monster too. Everyone treats me like a pariah and a freak. Does that sound like a hero to you? someone girls can aspire to be? supergirl is happy. I'm firey! i'm inspirational! People look to supergirl to forget their problems to see someone who can teach them to do it better. Who wants a supergirl with the same problems they have?"

and they intercut that with scenes of girls (not Kara) in difficult situations. I think this issue was good because it showed:

"here you can have the fake supergirl that's superficial and acts like Miss Martian without a care in the world OR you can have someone you can relate to"


I'd rather have the one we can relate to and even Kara says:

"i am messed up, i make mistakes all the time, i feel stupid and scared and ugly and insecure just like everybody else...but when i blow it I dont shrivel up and die. I get myself up and I try to do better. I always try again. And no half-baked barbie doll is going to tell me different"


And I think that's awesome! It's like a letter to readers that dont 'get' the series or what Kara is about. Sure she isn't the perfect hero, she isn't superman, she's something better...she's flawed, she makes mistakes she's just like the rest of us and the situations that she's in are symbolic/metaphors for what girls/women/boy/men go through in their lives.

I totally agree with you on there. Well, except for the art being terrible cause I didn't notice anything wrong with the artwork.

I don't know about you guys but I love Joe Kelly's run on Supergirl. I don't really see anything wrong with Supergirl's personality or her "crystal powers". I think that's what's makes her unique.

So what if Kara's whiny and always sad unlike her previous versions? I really don't see anything wrong with that. I don't think she would be always happy and cheerful if she's trying to save lives and/or fight super villains. I mean who would be? I would be totally be freaked out if I was almost close to horrible death and I was save by someone who was really happy. Having emotions like sadness and angry is what gives a character a personality.

The whole "Monitor is testing Supergirl" thing threw me off guard but I thought that was interesting plot twist. But I think that her "reason" to kill Superman wasn't part of the Monitor's test and probably in the next issue(Which is the last issue of Joe Kelly being the writer) she has to decide weither or not to kill Superman.

I mean if you really don't like how things are going for Supergirl, you probably want to stop reading the series and move on to other comic.

But I still like issue 18 and I hope issue 19 will just as good.

[Sean Whitmore]

I think they want to turn her into an idealisezed 'Pollyanna'

So...Supergirl, basically. ;)


SEAN

[SensorBoy]

For an example of how to write a conflicted teenage girl, take a look at Wonder Girl. Sure, she's a weepy cow at times, but much more realistic than Supergirl's characterization as a not-so-funny (or fun to read) version of Patrick Bateman.

After 18 issues of....well, Issues, and no resolution (or character development) in sight, I find it hard to believe that this was what they had in mind when they re-introduced Kara 3 years ago.

[Question_Authority]

Dunno if they are making this supergirl a pollyanna or not, but they must try something since sales are in decline from the same time last year. This current incarnation seems to have its defenders, but people have been leaving this comic in droves, so DC has gotta try something . I thought putting a good writer who would tell coherent story arcs was the answer, but what do I know?

[Harding Prime]

However, to play devil's advocate on this point, I think a LOT of people are simply buying this series merely to keep 'watching the train wreck' each issue. That's hardly a ringing endorsement for continued success. ;)

Wow, you just summed up how more then 50,000 people feel every month. Right.:rolleyes:

I admit that I only bought up to OYL, because once looking at any other art that isn't Churchill for this Kara isn't the same at all to me. It would take Jim Lee for me to see the same style Kara. But though this arc might have been drawn out over 3 issues when it could have been one, I didn't think it was all bad, it did give growth to the character, which is much needed. I don't think Jeph ever had any ideas of making Kara a student when he finsihed his awesome run. This might not have been the best story, but I think it is getting the character back on the right track, and not a bad tie-in to Countdown.

[Harding Prime]

Double Post, my bad.

[Alerex]

For an example of how to write a conflicted teenage girl, take a look at Wonder Girl. Sure, she's a weepy cow at times, but much more realistic than Supergirl's characterization as a not-so-funny (or fun to read) version of Patrick Bateman.

I don't think Casandra Sandmark characterization is something to be looked at as good. For the last one and half years (DC time) she has been allowed to do nothing but cry. Now like two years (DC time) after the death of her boyfriend the healing process will begin. This is a girl that is part of the Wonder Woman group. Thats good?

Also are you really likening Kara to a crazy and or homicidal maniac? Since for the past few issues a Monitor has been testing her.

[DarkCrisis]

New Kara already admitted she's "Crazy" right there in #18. It was her defense against SA Kara's logic.

[Bored at 3:00AM]

Am I the only one who thinks there can be a middle ground between the Paris Hilton Supergirl and the Pollyanna Supergirl?

Basing the current version's personality more on the Supergirl from the animated series seems like a nice comprimise to me. She was hardly just Superman with breasts or all sunshine and pixies, nor was she a prepetually moody, largely self-centered, basket case. She was a fun-loving, impulsive teenage girl trying desperately to both win the approval of her cousin and define herself as a distinct person in her own right. She was both relatable and inspirational.

I understand what Joe Kelly & company were trying to accomplish with this approach to Supergirl, but it feels completely at odds with the general tone of Superman Family characters. The Superman characters are about hope and light, not inner demons and darkness. That's the Batman Family. If this were the new Batgirl, it'd make sense, but this doesn't seem like the right approach to take with a character called Supergirl.

[Sean Whitmore]

Am I the only one who thinks there can be a middle ground between the Paris Hilton Supergirl and the Pollyanna Supergirl?

Peter David's Supergirl? :D


SEAN

[SensorBoy]

I don't think Casandra Sandmark characterization is something to be looked at as good. For the last one and half years (DC time) she has been allowed to do nothing but cry. .

I didn't say it was good, merely plausible. Unlike Supergirl's "Festival of Issues". Good or bad, Titans has provided WG with some character development. SG has had next to zero, and absolutely zero since OYL (not counting dangling plotlines).


There is a happy medium between "golden age pollyanna" and.....well, the current standard of storytelling in Supergirl.

[SensorBoy]

Also are you really likening Kara to a crazy and or homicidal maniac? Since for the past few issues a Monitor has been testing her.

Err, yes, I am likening her to a crazy and/or homocidal maniac (have you been reading the same "internal dialogue" panels as I have? You know, the ones where the voices command her to kill). That being what she is portrayed as...

She was recieving the orders to kill from her "internal Daddy" looooooong before the Monitors joined the cast.

[Fatguy]

I'll be dissapointed if they turn her back into silver age Supergirl, which like Mia said, was the EXACT same character has Superman but with breasts. While I wont deny there are shaky moments, I like edgy, bordering crazy Supergirl.

[S00paVillain]

Goodness, so much SuperGirl hatred. :( I feel like I'm the only one here who actually likes the current SuperGirl series...I thought issue #18 was pretty good IMO.


'm with you... I'm actually really enojoying this series, it's FUN!
:)

[Thomas]

'm with you... I'm actually really enojoying this series, it's FUN!
:)
Really? For me the series is the exact opposite of that. It's all about angst and abusive boyfriends and actually has Supergirl killing her own mother. It's been anything but fun for me. It's like Kelly had a grim-n-gritty checklist and won a prize if he could get it all in there.

There's rooms for those kind of stories, but Supergirl isn't where they should be told. Radically altering the personality of the character to tell your story is just weak writing.

And it really feels to me that people describe the original character as a 'Pollyanna' or 'Superman with breasts' aren't really familiar with her. The earliest stories she was all sunshine and smiles, but it was the 50s, all comics were like that. She evolved into a more real character without betraying the characterization she'd had since the beginning. In short, she was a wide-eyed little girl who grew up to be a reasonable young adult who knew what hope was.

[DarkCrisis]

Really I want to say she should act more like PADs Linda Danvers Supergirl. She seemed more realistic.

But then I might as well say "They should have kept Linda Danvers."

[Bored at 3:00AM]

Peter David's Supergirl? :D


SEAN

No doubt, had Peter David just been allowed to use the Kara Zor-El Supergirl instead of trying to make sense of whatever the hell Matrix was supposed to be, this latest relaunch of the character wouldn't have been necessary.

[SensorBoy]

The PAD Supergirl was well-written, but PAD only had so much to work with.

They could have called her "Angle Girl" and not lost anything. Fiery wings, a mission from God, and little-to-no connection with Superman does not make a good fit for "Supergirl".

[Alex L]

And it really feels to me that people describe the original character as a 'Pollyanna' or 'Superman with breasts' aren't really familiar with her. The earliest stories she was all sunshine and smiles, but it was the 50s, all comics were like that. She evolved into a more real character without betraying the characterization she'd had since the beginning. In short, she was a wide-eyed little girl who grew up to be a reasonable young adult who knew what hope was.

I'm not that familiar with original-Supergirl, but I do like the way she's being portrayed right now.

As someone who came to Earth at the age of 16, she has very real memories of living on Krypton and being raised as a Kryptonian -- she's an expatriate who has to adapt to living on a planet whose technology pales compared to what she's used to, a planet where she doesn't know how to speak any of the languages -- imagine being sent back to ancient China (they've got a decent standard of living, but nothing compared to what you're used to; not only do you not know the language but the society is based off of Confucian concepts -- something you're not used to) and you get the idea of what she's going through here on Earth.

And not only that, but her cousin is freakin' Superman himself. So the world expects her to live up to that. Those of you with older sisters or brothers might know what I'm getting at here. Going to the same school as your overachieving sibling, knowing that the teachers were looking at you and expecting you to be just as smart and do every bit as well as they did.

[Sean Whitmore]

They could have called her "Angle Girl" and not lost anything. Fiery wings, a mission from God, and little-to-no connection with Superman does not make a good fit for "Supergirl".

Now, this is comic from someone who admittedly dislikes the Silver Age Supergirl (who really was just Superman with hormones), but I was glad to see her go a different way than Superman. Different powers, different origins, but she honored the S shield, same as Superboy and Steel.


SEAN

[SensorBoy]

Now, this is comic from someone who admittedly dislikes the Silver Age Supergirl (who really was just Superman with hormones), but I was glad to see her go a different way than Superman. Different powers, different origins, but she honored the S shield, same as Superboy and Steel.


SEAN

I just don't think it fits with the genre and concept established for the "Super-" family. The Marvels, maybe. The occult has always been their forte.

Is Linda still in-continuity, anyway?

[Jack Zodiac]

I doubt it. If D Didi was trying to oust someone as established as Nightwing, you'd better believe he'd try and ditch the "in-between" Supergirl from a confusing era. Which is a shame. Linda was one of the most well-written female characters DC had in the Nineties.

[Arilou]

I'm not that familiar with original-Supergirl, but I do like the way she's being portrayed right now.

As someone who came to Earth at the age of 16, she has very real memories of living on Krypton and being raised as a Kryptonian -- she's an expatriate who has to adapt to living on a planet whose technology pales compared to what she's used to, a planet where she doesn't know how to speak any of the languages -- imagine being sent back to ancient China (they've got a decent standard of living, but nothing compared to what you're used to; not only do you not know the language but the society is based off of Confucian concepts -- something you're not used to) and you get the idea of what she's going through here on Earth.

And not only that, but her cousin is freakin' Superman himself. So the world expects her to live up to that. Those of you with older sisters or brothers might know what I'm getting at here. Going to the same school as your overachieving sibling, knowing that the teachers were looking at you and expecting you to be just as smart and do every bit as well as they did.

Problem isn't about the concept: The concept is pretty neat. problem is with the execution.

[Mia]

And it really feels to me that people describe the original character as a 'Pollyanna' or 'Superman with breasts' aren't really familiar with her. The earliest stories she was all sunshine and smiles, but it was the 50s, all comics were like that. She evolved into a more real character without betraying the characterization she'd had since the beginning. In short, she was a wide-eyed little girl who grew up to be a reasonable young adult who knew what hope was.

Sounds like Pollyanna to me.

[Mia]

So...Supergirl, basically. ;)


SEAN


Yep a regression to the old Supergirl. An over done sachrine version of Pollyanna, who is so unrealistic and sweet my teeth want to fall out.

[Thomas]

Sounds like Pollyanna to me.
I'm starting wonder if you've read the old Supergirl comics or Pollyanna if you think they were so much alike.

[Thomas]

Yep a regression to the old Supergirl. An over done sachrine version of Pollyanna, who is so unrealistic and sweet my teeth want to fall out.
Is realism really what you're looking for in your comics about aliens who fly around Earth shooting lasers from their eyes?

[Kid Kamikaze10]

Mia, you know what books would be to your liking: Manhunter and Witchblade. Moreso Manhunter (cause Witchblade only got good recently).

[Jack Zodiac]

Yep a regression to the old Supergirl. An over done sachrine version of Pollyanna, who is so unrealistic and sweet my teeth want to fall out.

Yeah... that wasn't all Supergirl was, just like the new Supergirl isn't just an angsty, selfish, irresponsible cocktease.

[Eliseu Gouveia]

Yeah... that wasn't all Supergirl was, just like the new Supergirl isn't just an angsty, selfish, irresponsible, underage cocktease.


Fixed it for you.

[Francis]

Mia, you know what books would be to your liking: Manhunter and Witchblade. Moreso Manhunter (cause Witchblade only got good recently).
You mean that Witchblade isn't still simply "Let's have Sarah dress up like a fetish hooker and then beat the **** out of people again"?

[SKJAM!]

I like the upcoming character design for Supergirl--she looks like she has internal organs! That she actually uses! But that it's apparently only going to be used for the dubious Amazons Attack crossover makes me less enthusiastic.

[sabongero]

Sorry to be off topic. Hey I liked the original premise of this Supergirl being more powerful than Superman. Heck, it had me thinking okay maybe there is another than is more powerful than Big Blue.

You know I am just wondering here okay. What if they have Gail Simone write Supergirl for a a couple of story arcs. Okay make it several story arcs.

Or better yet...since Kara seems to be out of place and down a lot of times. Since DC was able to procure Jodi Picoult to write a story arc in Wonder Woman...why not have DC Comics procure the services of Laurie Halse Anderson (critically acclaimed author of "Speak") write a story arc of Supergirl.

[Kid Kamikaze10]

You mean that Witchblade isn't still simply "Let's have Sarah dress up like a fetish hooker and then beat the **** out of people again"?

Nope. It's now, "have another chick dress up like a fetish hooker and then beat the **** out of people". Oh and Sarah has baby issues that will have MAJOR RAMAFICATIONS IN THE TOP COW UNIVERSE!!!!!!!!

As long as it's not Darkness dying again, I'm down wit it.

[Mia]

Is realism really what you're looking for in your comics about aliens who fly around Earth shooting lasers from their eyes?

Yes I actually would like my heroes to act and behave like human beings not perfect plaster saints.

Mia, you know what books would be to your liking: Manhunter and Witchblade. Moreso Manhunter (cause Witchblade only got good recently).


I dropped MH with issue 19 for personal reasons. I haven’t touched WB since Turner left years ago, and I don’t like the fact that Image has a half hazard shipping schedule. Very poor customer service.

But I do tend to like me heroines (and heroes) a less bit pure and shinny. I like it that they have problems and issues. I find it far more inspirational to read about a person who doesn't allow their problems to hinder them from doing the right thing.

Yeah... that wasn't all Supergirl was, ).

Well I wouldn’t know what the old SG was. But going by your description of the old Supergirl and your constant criticism of the current one. I can only surmise that the old one was a paragon of virtue who always did the right thing. Pollyanna.


just like the new Supergirl isn't just an angsty, selfish, irresponsible cocktease.

Absolutely. She wasn’t perfect. And I liked it that way ;)

[Mia]

I'm starting wonder if you've read the old Supergirl comics or Pollyanna if you think they were so much alike.


No. I've seen Pollyanna (the Haley Mills version) and the way you described Supergirl up above fits in with her perfectly.


Sorry forgot to add that I really loved this issue. I commend Kelley for responding to his critics this way instead of kow-towing to a bunch of people who need their characters to be 'holier than thou'. Took a lot of guts to do what he did. Just like Kara standing up for yourself in the face of adversity and criticism. That's what a true hero does.

Bravo!!!!

[Zanku]

Anyone else think it was Powerboy who grabbed her at the end? I guess if you had read previous issues it would be pretty obvious.

[Pól Rua]

That metaheroine kicking the crap out of Kara was hardly a fair representation of the Silver Age Supergirl. It smacked more of Joe going, "it's either this extreme or that extreme but nothing in-between." Hopefully, though, we get that in-between Supergirl soon enough.

Exactly.
It's Joe Kelly setting up a straw man (in this case, a straw girl) to represent what people have been complaining about, and then introducing a completely artificial 'conflict' to prove he's right and that a messed-up cypher of a character is inherently better BECAUSE she's a messed-up cypher, than the character fans would rather the character be like.
It's exactly the technique the selfsame writer used in 'Action #775' where he set up a straw-superteam of Authority-a-likes and then had Superman knock them down like tenpins.
Seen it.

[Pól Rua]

I'll be dissapointed if they turn her back into silver age Supergirl, which like Mia said, was the EXACT same character has Superman but with breasts. While I wont deny there are shaky moments, I like edgy, bordering crazy Supergirl.

So... Wolverine with breasts?

[Francis]

No. I've seen Pollyanna (the Haley Mills version) and the way you described Supergirl up above fits in with her perfectly.


Sorry forgot to add that I really loved this issue. I commend Kelley for responding to his critics this way instead of kow-towing to a bunch of people who need their characters to be 'holier than thou'. Took a lot of guts to do what he did. Just like Kara standing up for yourself in the face of adversity and criticism. That's what a true hero does.

Bravo!!!!
With the exception of Superman, name me one character with no personal problems in the entire DCU. Just one please?

What we have in Kara is not what was claimed in the arc - I have seen precious little evidence she is determined or has any redeeming merits at all. She stands up for herself, I will grant - but only for herself. She gets bribed to give up and let Kandor fall into slavery (so much for her redeeming quality being determination and not giving up).

To be honest, I see only two reasons she is a superhero and not a supervillain - the first being that Superman is her cousin and dragged her into the role, and the second is that it is actually easier for her to be a superheroine than a supervillain as it allows her to pick her fights rather than have Superman and others of that power try to take her down.

But she has been seriously messed up (her father, mentally raped by Darkseid, and a few other cases). All I really require is evidence that she is actively trying rather than just flitting from place to place doing good deeds simply because she gets something out of that. I have yet to see that evidence.

And if Joe Kelly is as heavy handed as that issue was - and is as unsympathetic and lacking in nuance as that issue was, I understand why Supergirl is a trainwreck. Whereas despite the heavy handed nature, I liked the Authority knockoff as it showcased Superman's good traits when pushed up against the limits - rather than trying to invent something out of whole cloth and call it Supergirl's good side.