Action Comics 850

[J. Robb]

Shades of "Birthright"! DC puts out another revised version of Superman's history and no one seems too interested. I would have thought someone would have started a thread by now.

Anyways, the issue has some great art by Renato Guedes (he does both the pencils and the fantastic colouring), but if you're a regular Superman reader like me, you're probably sick to death of writers obsessively revisiting the past and changing things to their own version. At this point, I just assume the next creative team will just change things again, until DC starts treating the character with the level of respect you'd expect for the first comic book superhero.

Next month, we revisit "Last Son" for one issue. Remember that story?

[Ilash]

Yup, the art was great and it was very well told but I'm also tired of them revisiting and revising Superman's issue every three months.

[casual Bat Fan]

I didn't much like it. I also didn't really like the art either. It was an all-around bad issue IMO.

[Jack Zodiac]

Next month, we revisit "Last Son" for one issue. Remember that story?

Are we sure? I thought they were putting that out as an annual or something now. I guess we'll see in four weeks.

As for this issue, two words: "!@#$in' awesome."

The art was great (didn't he do the art for McDuffie's issue, too?), the story was excellent, the nostalgia (especially the Forties Lois and Superman) was high, and the point was driven home. Busiek and Johns (or whoever scripted the bulk of this issue) get Superman, and I hope we see them revisiting some of the great elements of the Sixties and Seventies they've been hinting upon that made the character so great.

[jgphenom]

hmm... When Brainiac is jumping from timeline to timeline (or Earth to Earth) in Superman's history, we see a golden age Supes first. I assume it wasn't really the golden age Superman but a Superman on another Earth from the new multiverse who's origin is exactly like the golden age Superman. Probably the new Earth-2 Superman.

I get that he's from a different Earth because Brainiac mentioned "The Multiversal Stabilizer" picked up a "lateral timeline". Sounds like the multiverse to me.

But then we see silver age Superman, Post-Crisis Superman, long-haired Superman, Birthright Superman, and finally whatever new origin DC decided to throw at Supes to see if it sticks this time. I have to assume he was still seeing different Supermen in the multiverse right?

Now, I can see the silver age, Post-Crisis, and Birthright Superman being from different Earths. Each of those eras has had some kind of reboot. Silver age = Crisis on Infinite Earths; Post-Crisis = Zero Hour; Birthright = Infinite Crisis. DC could use those reboots to argue that these origins never happened and now these Supermen are from different Earths. But didn't Superman have long hair after he fought Doomsday?

The long-haired Superman should (arguably) be included in the histories of the Post-Crisis and Birthright Superman, not as it's own separate origin. Does that mean that New Earth Superman (current) never fought Doomsday? That this happened to another Earth's Superman? Or did the writer mess up when he included long-haired Superman among the other multiverse Supermen?

...Do I make any sense? :)

[jgphenom]

As for this issue, two words: "!@#$in' awesome."
I really liked this issue too and I share your enthusiasm, but I'm desperately fighting the urge to tear it to pieces because DC is once again messing around with Superman's origin. I wish they would just pick one dammit!!

Or if they are ALL valid and are just Superman's different origins from different Earths in the multiverse, at least tell us which one is OUR Superman!

[astronato]

I thought this was a great issue. The artwork was outstanding and hopefully this is the start to DC setting Supergirls book on a course redirection. This seemed like a hint in that direction to me.

[Froggy]

I really liked this issue too and I share your enthusiasm, but I'm desperately fighting the urge to tear it to pieces because DC is once again messing around with Superman's origin. I wish they would just pick one dammit!!

Or if they are ALL valid and are just Superman's different origins from different Earths in the multiverse, at least tell us which one is OUR Superman!
seconded.................man i havent enjoyed superman in like, ever since now!

[PatrickG]

hmm... When Brainiac is jumping from timeline to timeline (or Earth to Earth) in Superman's history, we see a golden age Supes first. I assume it wasn't really the golden age Superman but a Superman on another Earth from the new multiverse who's origin is exactly like the golden age Superman. Probably the new Earth-2 Superman.

I get that he's from a different Earth because Brainiac mentioned "The Multiversal Stabilizer" picked up a "lateral timeline". Sounds like the multiverse to me.

But then we see silver age Superman, Post-Crisis Superman, long-haired Superman, Birthright Superman, and finally whatever new origin DC decided to throw at Supes to see if it sticks this time. I have to assume he was still seeing different Supermen in the multiverse right?

Now, I can see the silver age, Post-Crisis, and Birthright Superman being from different Earths. Each of those eras has had some kind of reboot. Silver age = Crisis on Infinite Earths; Post-Crisis = Zero Hour; Birthright = Infinite Crisis. DC could use those reboots to argue that these origins never happened and now these Supermen are from different Earths. But didn't Superman have long hair after he fought Doomsday?

The long-haired Superman should (arguably) be included in the histories of the Post-Crisis and Birthright Superman, not as it's own separate origin. Does that mean that New Earth Superman (current) never fought Doomsday? That this happened to another Earth's Superman? Or did the writer mess up when he included long-haired Superman among the other multiverse Supermen?

...Do I make any sense? :)

According to Busiek, we've been seeing a TOTALLY NEW Superman since INFINITE CRISIS but this one happens to share life milestones with other versions. There are some nods to Birthright in his past. He married Lois. He fought Doomsday. He inspired Steel and Conner Kent. He was a member of the Legion as a boy.

But we're not to assume that any of those events necessarily happened the way they were published.

Just that this is a new guy with a similar history.

We know this Superman fought Doomsday and returned. But the guy who fought Doomsday and came back with long hair was another Superman.

This Superman isn't the Waid Superman, the Byrne Superman, the Silver-Age Superman. Those are all separate guys from this version, who exist somewhere else. But this guy has a similar life story and shares several biographical details with the other guys.

[J. Robb]

We know this Superman fought Doomsday and returned. But the guy who fought Doomsday and came back with long hair was another Superman.
I'd hate to think the writers are so anal they'd use alternate Earths to explain a hairstyle.

[jadrax]

Shades of "Birthright"! DC puts out another revised version of Superman's history and no one seems too interested. I would have thought someone would have started a thread by now.


This issue was, yet again, the awesome.

[JoeK32880]

It was pretty good.

I really liked the Superman (weekly) series from the 90s. Those were really good, dependable books. He's been kind of iffy since then.

[SuperSince92]

I really wanted to type up the summary and get the convo rolling on this issue, but I just couldn't motivate myself to pick up the book again to ensure I provided a good enough summary. So much that irked me.

I don't read Supergirl nor do I ready The Legion of Super-hero's with Supergirl or whatever the hell it's called, so to have them the focus of this book I thought was a cheap cop out. This was filler at it's worst. They threw Johns name in there to give it some more credibility but I imagine this book was mostly Fabian and Busiek featuring minor plot points from Johns (namely in the "glimpses" we got at the end of future events).

In sum? This was like an extra-sized commercial for Supergirl and The Legion book.

As for the origin, I liked this one, but apparently there are inconsistencies with past ones still. I would have probably enjoyed a couple pages at the end being dedicated to the writers/editors simply explaining Superman's CURRENT origin and how it differs from what we've been presented with in the past. No art even necessary. Just text and I'd have eaten that up.

Overall? 2 out of 5 stars.

[sgt pepper]

I'm with Jack Zodiac; awesome issue. Some moving stuff seeing Supergirl discovering how much Supes loves her, and how much he appreciates having someone like him around. And the quips from the Legion were great.

I don't know anything about Supergirl, though, and the expository dialogue made the timeline a bit confusing for me: Did that last big fight scene take place for Supergirl before or after she'd spent time with the Legion?

[Scrubz]

Next month, we revisit "Last Son" for one issue. Remember that story?[/QUOTE]

I haven't picked up this issue yet, but I'm looking forward to it. So the next months solicitation is for Last Son Part 4? I went back and read Johns post about the Last Son finale and it said the "conclusion" will be in Action Comics Annual 11, so it is within reason that Last Son is a six part series with parts 5&6 in the annual. I like Adam Kubert's art but he is one slow guy, his bro has been pretty slow as well on Batman. They should be on the same title to pick up each other's slack.

[Paul Dee]

This Superman isn't the Waid Superman, the Byrne Superman, the Silver-Age Superman. Those are all separate guys from this version, who exist somewhere else. But this guy has a similar life story and shares several biographical details with the other guys.


I don't like the idea of this one bit. I rarely pick up the Superman monthlies (bar All-Star) so it doesn't effect me as such but it's still a shame.

[The Batman]

I really enjoyed this issue alot. It seemed to fill in some of the details about New Earth Superman's origin and life as well as doing a really good job of getting the point across that there's alot of lonliness in being the Last Son of Krypton.

I'm still a little unclear as to why the long haired Superman that existed after Death/Funeral/Reign had to be retconned into a multiversal variant (Earth Jurgens?) but I'm willing to not worry about it too much. Still someone should point out that for now at least there's only 52 other universes and that throwing some of them away on explaining hairstyles might not be so wise.

[Rattlehead]

Yeesh. That's why I just read Superman:Confidential these days. Why does DC constantly feel the need to endlessly convolute what is in essence, such a basic character?

[Arron]

I'd hate to think the writers are so anal they'd use alternate Earths to explain a hairstyle.

That's how I explain pictures of my late-80's hair to my kids!


Very good issue, enjoyed it a great deal.

[Super Buddies Forever]

So Superman never had long hair anymore in the standard continuity?

Yeesh. Come on, it may have been a questionable fashion choice, but to feel the need to retcon it is reaching the point of absurdity.

This Superman isn't the Waid Superman, the Byrne Superman, the Silver-Age Superman. Those are all separate guys from this version, who exist somewhere else. But this guy has a similar life story and shares several biographical details with the other guys.

You know, I really hate that. As much as I detested Birthright, what was the point of redoing Superman's origin two years before a huge universe altering storyline? If IC was on the table they should have never inserted Birthright into standard continuity. Yeah, Superman history would still be the ungodly mess that is today, but at least we've had a clear dividing line between Silver Age/Man of Steel/Today's.

So much has been altered in five years. I long for the tight continuity of the '90s, where we had a developing supporting cast and there were consequences from week to week.

[TimT]

I long for the tight continuity of the '90s, where we had a developing supporting cast and there were consequences from week to week.
I miss that too, but I'm hoping that Countdown and the next Big Event may lead to some clean up and return to stability for the character (:cool: Maybe I'm being naive?).

[Jack Zodiac]

So much has been altered in five years. I long for the tight continuity of the '90s, where we had a developing supporting cast and there were consequences from week to week.

That's a damn shame.

We have a fine supporting cast now, especially in Superman, moreso than Action, and weekly consequences, and y'know what? We've got that without the need for a continuity puzzle. Long on for the "tight continuity" of the '90s, which is a seriously questionable claim, but I'm thoroughly enjoying the state of the Superman books more now than I have in over a decade.

[Kurt Busiek]

So Superman never had long hair anymore in the standard continuity?

Where did the story say that?

Yeesh. Come on, it may have been a questionable fashion choice, but to feel the need to retcon it is reaching the point of absurdity.

I think the idea that if you see a panel of something happening in another universe, that means nothing like it ever happen in the main one any more is kind of absurd on the face of it, too. Does that sequence also mean that in the normal continuity, Superman never flew over Metropolis? Never fought Mr. Mxyzptlk, or stopped bank robbers?

kdb

[CMBMOOL]

Mr. Busiek,


Thank for the trip down memory lane that is Action Comics #850, and may there be many more. :D

[Bored at 3:00AM]

I'm digging the buffet-style approach that the Superman books have been taking, picking and choosing various elements from all the different incarnations of Superman in order to create the latest model. Aside from the frustrating and, thus far, unexplained delays of Kubert's art, the Superman relaunch feels like its moving in the right direction to me. The tight continuity of the 90s books may be paradise to some, but it was amongst the most mediocre and bland Superman comics I've ever read.

[PatrickG]

If it's a new universe with a new history, doesn't that mean that there are some of you fighting for the mullet's inclusion in the NEW continuity?

It was retconned out in the Birthright-era revamp. And now we have the post-IC history. And you really want that ugly thing back?

Sheesh. Do you want the Electric Superman fiasco explicitly confirmed too? I'd rather hold my breath for a new version of Superman Red/Superman Blue that people like as much as the beloved original than cling to a failed 90s experiment out of nostalgia.

Not discounting what Kurt said in not discounting the mullet... But his past. IS. DIFFERENT. He was a member of the Legion as a boy and shares many Silver Age and Byrne era traits. And there are new details in his past too.

I can understand keeping the marriage and Doomsday concepts... But the mullet? I file that mentally with Superboy's 70s sideburns, Jimmy's bow tie and Steve Lombard's leisure suits. Except Superman's mullet came about five years after the mullet stopped being popular.

[J. Robb]

Sheesh. Do you want the Electric Superman fiasco explicitly confirmed too? I'd rather hold my breath for a new version of Superman Red/Superman Blue that people like as much as the beloved original than cling to a failed 90s experiment out of nostalgia.
I'd rather them stop messing with the past and just do something new.

[dupersuper]

Unless the specific story deals with Krypton, I'm all for the All-Star Supes #1 opening or Dini/Ross JLA:Secret Origins approach. Whether a fan of golden age origin, silver age, Byrne, Birthright, New Earth, George Reves show, Christopher Reeve movies, Smallville, Diniverse cartoons, Ruby Spears cartoon, or frickin' Lois and Clark; those summaries work just fine.

Also; was there a POINT to suddenly giving lil' orphan Lana a huge family?? They couldn't use Petes' completely untouched on family to drive the "Clark is lonely" point home without completely tossing out parts of Lanas' backstory that've been in everything from World of Smallville to Superman: For All Seasons?

[J. Robb]

Also; was there a POINT to suddenly giving lil' orphan Lana a huge family??
To make Infinite Crisis seem "important".

[Tom]

Where did the story say that?



I think the idea that if you see a panel of something happening in another universe, that means nothing like it ever happen in the main one any more is kind of absurd on the face of it, too. Does that sequence also mean that in the normal continuity, Superman never flew over Metropolis? Never fought Mr. Mxyzptlk, or stopped bank robbers?

kdb

With all due respect, I don't think it's absurd at all considering it's been well over a year since the establishment of "New Earth" and the readers have hardly any information as to exactly what that means. DC has been deliberately obtuse about any changes to continuity so it's only natural that there's some confusion.

[PatrickG]

Unless the specific story deals with Krypton, I'm all for the All-Star Supes #1 opening or Dini/Ross JLA:Secret Origins approach. Whether a fan of golden age origin, silver age, Byrne, Birthright, New Earth, George Reves show, Christopher Reeve movies, Smallville, Diniverse cartoons, Ruby Spears cartoon, or frickin' Lois and Clark; those summaries work just fine.

Also; was there a POINT to suddenly giving lil' orphan Lana a huge family?? They couldn't use Petes' completely untouched on family to drive the "Clark is lonely" point home without completely tossing out parts of Lanas' backstory that've been in everything from World of Smallville to Superman: For All Seasons?

Those are from another continuity.

They could have mimicked that approach for New Earth. Instead, they took Lana's extended family from pre-Crisis Superboy stories.

I don't get why it's so difficult to grasp that post-IC Superman is a new Superman. It doesn't alter the stories of the n80s or 90s because this is a different guy. Likewise, it doesn't reaffirm the 80s or the 90s to reference those stories because the Superman in those stories is still a different guy.

[PatrickG]

To make Infinite Crisis seem "important".

No. That's a pretty absurd point.

Extra Langs doesn't seem terribly important.

Geoff and Kurt are constructing the post-IC Superman. Ergo they are under no obligation to honor anything pre-IC. However, if there's a detail that works for them, they can use it. Whether from SMALLVILLE, MAN OF STEEL, THE ANIMATED SERIES, the 1960s or their own imaginations.

IC and 52 didn't change the Byrne Superman. He's out there. He just doesn't star in these books.

This Superman got married and fought Doomsday NOT because he's the guy from your back issue bin. He got married and fought Doomsday because the typical comic book reader, who honestly knows very little about Superman comics, knows those two points. DC is invested in those two points.

If we had gone back to following Earth-1 at the end of IC (and we could because it's out there), we'd probably pick up with Lois and Clark married and Superman having fought Doomsday there too.

[PatrickG]

With all due respect, I don't think it's absurd at all considering it's been well over a year since the establishment of "New Earth" and the readers have hardly any information as to exactly what that means. DC has been deliberately obtuse about any changes to continuity so it's only natural that there's some confusion.

And incidentally, the implication of Supergirl's line is that neither the Byrne Superman nor the Jurgens era guy with the mullet are her cousin.

[Thomas]

And incidentally, the implication of Supergirl's line is that neither the Byrne Superman nor the Jurgens era guy with the mullet are her cousin.
That's what i gathered. I didn't think the point of it was the mullet, but that image is very tied to the Jurgens era so they used it to represent that time.

And I liked the issue wuite a lot, and I looke forward to Guedes' work on Supergirl.

[Fil-El]

i liked this issue , but i have to admit there were certain things that just didnt work for me like clark wearing glasses as a kid or worse lex in smallville, dont get me wrong i enjoyed reading the book , but i think superman had a very structured continuity,and Byrne came up with very good ideas that can be worked with now, its like we are doubting if he really died , but lets see where this is going, probably everythings for the good

[J. Robb]

I don't get why it's so difficult to grasp that post-IC Superman is a new Superman. It doesn't alter the stories of the n80s or 90s because this is a different guy. Likewise, it doesn't reaffirm the 80s or the 90s to reference those stories because the Superman in those stories is still a different guy.
It's not difficult to grasp, just kind of underwhelming. Just because it was done twenty years ago to much fanfare doesn't mean we should be excited again. Now it's just an old idea being poorly executed.

[lawman]

So Superman never had long hair anymore in the standard continuity?

Yeesh. Come on, it may have been a questionable fashion choice, but to feel the need to retcon it is reaching the point of absurdity.

This Superman isn't the Waid Superman, the Byrne Superman, the Silver-Age Superman. Those are all separate guys from this version, who exist somewhere else. But this guy has a similar life story and shares several biographical details with the other guys.

You know, I really hate that. As much as I detested Birthright, what was the point of redoing Superman's origin two years before a huge universe altering storyline?...
Let me chime in as yet another reader who dislikes the assertions that this is a "whole new Superman" (as opposed to the same post-Crisis version character we've been reading for 20 years with a few minor tweaks in his history, as seems to be the case for pretty much everyone else in the DCU). The revision of Jor-el and Krypton (as seen in the Action Annual) is pretty interesting, IMHO, but hardly enough to warrant tossing Superman's whole history up in the air.

And they still seem not to have made up their minds about certain key things, given how this retelling skipped around and elided verious details. For example, the appearance of Kal-El's rocket ship -- I was particularly amused/annoyed by the panel where Kara supposedly recognized it, while all we readers saw was an ambiguous blur of light. :rolleyes:

I miss that too, but I'm hoping that Countdown and the next Big Event may lead to some clean up and return to stability for the character (:cool: Maybe I'm being naive?).
Well, the latest rumor from Rich Johnston is that Kurt Busiek will be writing DC's 2008 Big Event. Not a bad thing in terms of basic storytelling, one hopes. Whether it bodes good or ill when it comes to clarifying Superman's history remains to be seen, though...

I'd rather them stop messing with the past and just do something new.
Hear, hear! That's what DC promised us after IC. What they're actually delivering seems to be much too concerned with another round of origin rehashes, just like after the original Crisis...

Also; was there a POINT to suddenly giving lil' orphan Lana a huge family?? They couldn't use Petes' completely untouched on family to drive the "Clark is lonely" point home without completely tossing out parts of Lanas' backstory that've been in everything from World of Smallville to Superman: For All Seasons?
Yeah, that really puzzled me, too.

(And frankly, although I see how it worked as a thematic counterpoint to Kara's attitude, I'm not too keen on the whole "loneliness" thing on its own terms. This may have been an element in the movies, but never really in the comics; pretty much every version of Clark in comics history has been a fairly well-adjusted human being, whether he knew of his Kryptonian heritage or not.)

Extra Langs doesn't seem terribly important.

Geoff and Kurt are constructing the post-IC Superman. Ergo they are under no obligation to honor anything pre-IC...
Except, of course, that almost all known history of "New Earth" matches detail-for-detail (aside from the change in JLA founders) against the history we know from post-Crisis/pre-IC.

But y'know, even if Geoff and Kurt have an excuse for making the change to Lana's family, that doesn't really answer the question posed, which was "what's the point of it."

He got married and fought Doomsday because the typical comic book reader, who honestly knows very little about Superman comics, knows those two points. DC is invested in those two points.
If DC is more invested in the attitudes of a mythical "typical reader" who's unfamiliar with their flagship character than in those of loyal readers who've been buying his books for years, then IMHO they really ought to reconsider their priorities.

[Tom]

(And frankly, although I see how it worked as a thematic counterpoint to Kara's attitude, I'm not too keen on the whole "loneliness" thing on its own terms. This may have been an element in the movies, but never really in the comics; pretty much every version of Clark in comics history has been a fairly well-adjusted human being, whether he knew of his Kryptonian heritage or not.)



Actually, loneliness was pretty much the only defining characterization of the Silver Age version.

[Jack Zodiac]

I think that's a bit of an oversimplification, but you could definitely say a lot of Superman's characterization came from trying to overcome his loneliness. "I'm the last of my kind, but at least I have human friends and family," or "I never knew my parents, but at least I have my cousin and my dog."

[Tom]

Not so much of an oversimplification. His foster parents were dead, he loved Lois, but could never be honest with her, and he spent all of his downtime in the Fortress of Solitude, writing in his diary and setting up life-sized dolls of all his acquaintances and associates. When he met Supergirl and the LSH he was overjoyed that he had people in his life with whom he could be himself. His loneliness was the one running bit of characterization throughout the entire silver age.

[Jack Zodiac]

Oh, yes... the, uh, dollhouse. I never looked at it that way before, but now that you mention it, that's pretty effin' depressing. I'unno, the Silver Age Superman books I've read all had him trying to get past the loneliness of being the last of his race and trying to make a life as Clark Kent work. Granted, the majority of the stuff I read was Maggin's work, and I've missed a rather huge chunk of the rest of that age.

[lawman]

Not so much of an oversimplification. His foster parents were dead, he loved Lois, but could never be honest with her, and he spent all of his downtime in the Fortress of Solitude, writing in his diary and setting up life-sized dolls of all his acquaintances and associates. When he met Supergirl and the LSH he was overjoyed that he had people in his life with whom he could be himself. His loneliness was the one running bit of characterization throughout the entire silver age.
Yes, from a modern point of view, interpreting things in terms of psychologically rounded characterization, those situations and behaviors denote loneliness. But back in those comics (even replete with thought-balloons as they were), Superman was almost never portrayed as lonely (unless it was important to the plot of a particular one-off story). He did what he did because that's what Superman did, and that was about it.

It was never really played up until the movies. I'm not saying I'm against using loneliness as aspect of characterization -- just warning that (IMHO) it shouldn't be one of his defining characteristics. A little goes a long way.

[Tom]

Yes, from a modern point of view, interpreting things in terms of psychologically rounded characterization, those situations and behaviors denote loneliness. But back in those comics (even replete with thought-balloons as they were), Superman was almost never portrayed as lonely (unless it was important to the plot of a particular one-off story). He did what he did because that's what Superman did, and that was about it.

It was never really played up until the movies. I'm not saying I'm against using loneliness as aspect of characterization -- just warning that (IMHO) it shouldn't be one of his defining characteristics. A little goes a long way.

Again, I disagree. His loneliness was a clearly and often stated bit of characterization. He came right out and mentioned it countless times.

[Kurt Busiek]

Again, I disagree. His loneliness was a clearly and often stated bit of characterization. He came right out and mentioned it countless times.

The emotions in Weisinger stories are underplayed, at best, but by those standards his loneliness is practically operatic.

It doesn't come up in every story, no. It doesn't come up in every current story, either.

kdb

[jgphenom]

I don't get why it's so difficult to grasp that post-IC Superman is a new Superman. It doesn't alter the stories of the n80s or 90s because this is a different guy. Likewise, it doesn't reaffirm the 80s or the 90s to reference those stories because the Superman in those stories is still a different guy.

When I originally asked about mullet-man, I didn't do so because of his hairstyle. I asked because of what the hairstyle represented. This Post-IC Superman isn't a "new" Superman. Alex Luthor created New Earth from pieces of different other Earths. So technically this Superman is an amalgamation of every Superman we've ever known in the past. Bits and pieces taken from different storylines.

The reason Superman had long hair is because of the way his body was brought back to life in the fortress after he fought Doomsday. Which means that if he never had long hair, did he never fight Doomsday? Or did DC change the way Superman came back. That's my question.

And no, Mr. Busiek, (with all due respect) just because we see Superman flying over metropolis on another Earth doesn't mean that we think he's never done it on our Earth. But when you show several panels of Superman from other Earths, it is only natural to wonder if part of those origins also exist with this "new" Superman.

[Kurt Busiek]

The reason Superman had long hair is because of the way his body was brought back to life in the fortress after he fought Doomsday. Which means that if he never had long hair, did he never fight Doomsday?

As shown in #650, this Superman did fight Doomsday and die. It's not shown anywhere that this Superman never had long hair. Nor is it shown that he did.

Or did DC change the way Superman came back. That's my question.

That hasn't been shown.

kdb

[jgphenom]

Ah, ok. Thanks for that. Hopefully everything will be clear soon enough.

[Harding Prime]

As shown in #650, this Superman did fight Doomsday and die. It's not shown anywhere that this Superman never had long hair. Nor is it shown that he did.

kdb

I think the easy way to explain this is that this Kara never saw our standard Superman with long hair because she hadn't arrived yet...

[Corrina]

I'd rather them stop messing with the past and just do something new.

I didn't think they were messing with the past or retconning origins or anything, just that the creative team was including looks at the different eras of Superman, for nostaglia value.

You know, for fun.

I didn't really take it seriously that there's a mullet Superman on a different Earth. I took it as the writer having fun with the publishing existence of a mullet era.

But that could be just me. :)

[Kurt Busiek]

I think the easy way to explain this is that this Kara never saw our standard Superman with long hair because she hadn't arrived yet...

That's why she reacts to the hair, yes -- she's a teenage girl seeing what is at the very least a version of an older relative, wearing odd hair in his younger days. The odds that she wouldn't say something about his hair strike me as pretty low.

kdb

[jv2k]

I don't get it, is there something I'm missing because I've been hearing all this talk about Birthright being retconed but I haven't seen anything that contradicts it as Superman's origin. Hell in fact I've been seeing a lot that supports it such as Luthor referencing Smallvile, or Clark talking about a trip to Africa before he became a reporter.

[marshal99]

DC nowadays is more messed up even before COIE , would have been very interesting to see the current legion reaction to watching superman being superboy with a different legion. Probably too mind boggling. If the supergirl with the current legion is from the timeline of an earth with a different legion , how does it work ?!
A new blackstar for the new supergirl ? Good to see them updating a classic supergirl foe. Last i saw Blackstar was back in pre-crisis , she perished trying to stop the crisis.

[nuclearman]

Art work was awesome ... and I started off thinking ho hum here we go again but ... it put a different spin on the normally bland superman is a great guy and saves the day .. it centered around kara and his relationship .. and the Legion was there .. so I didn't mind it.

[jadrax]

That's why she reacts to the hair, yes -- she's a teenage girl seeing what is at the very least a version of an older relative, wearing odd hair in his younger days. The odds that she wouldn't say something about his hair strike me as pretty low.

kdb

Must admit, when I see pictures of my Dad with his mullet and fu-manchu, It never occurred to me that they where versions of him from another reality!

Although, I think I like the idea better come t think of it, less embarrassing for both of us.