What's the real story behind the Hulk/Illuminati history ?

[CMBMOOL]

I want anyone to list the event's shown from World War Hulk Prolouge: Worldbreaker, because these events tell me that there is always a THIRD STORY between the two debating ones.

So if anyone could please list all of the events that were shown within the prolouge and maybe it can be possible to see a third "real" story within these flashbacks to fully determine who's right and who's wrong. ;)

[Magneto Rocks]

That seems pointless to be honest.

World Breaker was just retroactively adding loads of stuff which probably wasn't there before, mass retconning. I doubt the Hulk ever really cared that much about most of the stuff he whines about until it grew in his mind during his time on Sakaar, for example.

[Kevinroc]

That seems pointless to be honest.

World Breaker was just retroactively adding loads of stuff which probably wasn't there before, mass retconning. I doubt the Hulk ever really cared that much about most of the stuff he whines about until it grew in his mind during his time on Sakaar, for example.

Actually, World Breaker did not involve any such mass retconning. It explains some of Hulk's past encounters with The Illuminati from Hulk's perspective. The only thing is, they say Hulk didn't kill people, which seems to be retconned every other day at Marvel these days. (Although since this is from Peter David, I'll put more stock into it.)

The Dr. Strange thing is from Incredible Hulk #300. Hulk had gone mindless, not something he wanted to do, and Dr. Strange banished him. Hulk's upset that Strange did that instead of actually trying to help him.

The Iron Man bit is from Avengers (vol. 1) #1 & #2. Loki makes everyone think Hulk goes on a rampage. Rick Jones ends up contacting heroes for help. Once Thor reveals it was a Loki trick, they form The Avengers. In #2, The Space Phantom takes The Hulk's form and makes everyone think Hulk has gone on a rampage. Hulk gets pissed because he realizes The Avengers don't trust him and can't wait to jump all over him.

The Fantastic Four bit is from FF #12, in which Bruce Banner learns that the FF are being called in to find someone causing trouble (and I think they thought that was Hulk, been awhile since I read that one). Banner transforms into Hulk, fights the FF and the FF discover who the real traitor is because of their fight with Hulk. They just kinda... never resolve that the Hulk/ FF fight was a misunderstanding and the FF take all the glory while Hulk is still hunted like a monster.

The bit with Reed Richards was from Hulk #152, #153. Reed was actually not trying to destroy The Hulk in this scene as Hulk remembers, but Reed is actively seeking to destroy The Hulk. (His perception of this scene was wrong, but his basic assessment of Reed trying to kill him is correct.)

The Black Bolt bit is from... I think Incredible Hulk Annual 1. Lockjaw had teleported The Hulk to Attilan.

[CMBMOOL]

Actually, World Breaker did not involve any such mass retconning. It explains some of Hulk's past encounters with The Illuminati from Hulk's perspective. The only thing is, they say Hulk didn't kill people, which seems to be retconned every other day at Marvel these days. (Although since this is from Peter David, I'll put more stock into it.)

The Dr. Strange thing is from Incredible Hulk #300. Hulk had gone mindless, not something he wanted to do, and Dr. Strange banished him. Hulk's upset that Strange did that instead of actually trying to help him.

The Iron Man bit is from Avengers (vol. 1) #1 & #2. Loki makes everyone think Hulk goes on a rampage. Rick Jones ends up contacting heroes for help. Once Thor reveals it was a Loki trick, they form The Avengers. In #2, The Space Phantom takes The Hulk's form and makes everyone think Hulk has gone on a rampage. Hulk gets pissed because he realizes The Avengers don't trust him and can't wait to jump all over him.

The Fantastic Four bit is from FF #12, in which Bruce Banner learns that the FF are being called in to find someone causing trouble (and I think they thought that was Hulk, been awhile since I read that one). Banner transforms into Hulk, fights the FF and the FF discover who the real traitor is because of their fight with Hulk. They just kinda... never resolve that the Hulk/ FF fight was a misunderstanding and the FF take all the glory while Hulk is still hunted like a monster.

The bit with Reed Richards was from Hulk #152, #153. Reed was actually not trying to destroy The Hulk in this scene as Hulk remembers, but Reed is actively seeking to destroy The Hulk. (His perception of this scene was wrong, but his basic assessment of Reed trying to kill him is correct.)

The Black Bolt bit is from... I think Incredible Hulk Annual 1. Lockjaw had teleported The Hulk to Attilan.

Thanks for the help Kevinroc. :D


Now if the Hulk reminds the Illuminati members of this events, and they told a different story, would there be a Third Story told to find out what REALLY HAPPEN ? :o

[ivesaidway2much]

That seems pointless to be honest.

World Breaker was just retroactively adding loads of stuff which probably wasn't there before, mass retconning. I doubt the Hulk ever really cared that much about most of the stuff he whines about until it grew in his mind during his time on Sakaar, for example.Why would you think that World Breaker had any retcons?

[Mike Smash!]

I don't see any retcons. It simply deals with older stories from both Hulk and the Illuminati's point of view.

It's also worth mentioning, Kevin, that when the Hulk went mindless in THE INCREDIBLE HULK #300, that it was because Dr. Strange intentionally separated Banner's mind from the Hulk's (Banner asked him too). The split drove him mad and wiped out his humanity and conscious and ability to speak.

[ivesaidway2much]

It's also worth mentioning, Kevin, that when the Hulk went mindless in THE INCREDIBLE HULK #300, that it was because Dr. Strange intentionally separated Banner's mind from the Hulk's (Banner asked him too). The split drove him mad and wiped out his humanity and conscious and ability to speak.Really? Isn't that the same thing Doc Samson tried to do like 15-20 issues later?

[CMBMOOL]

Really? Isn't that the same thing Doc Samson tried to do like 15-20 issues later?

Yeah only Samson did it literally, while Strange did it mentally.

Anyhow with this events listed within the World Breaker prolouge, who knows if there is a Third tale to tell within these stories that will put a whole new spin on the dissucssion. :o

[Kevinroc]

I don't see any retcons. It simply deals with older stories from both Hulk and the Illuminati's point of view.

It's also worth mentioning, Kevin, that when the Hulk went mindless in THE INCREDIBLE HULK #300, that it was because Dr. Strange intentionally separated Banner's mind from the Hulk's (Banner asked him too). The split drove him mad and wiped out his humanity and conscious and ability to speak.

That doesn't exactly help Strange's case.

Do you know anymore about The Hulk's encounter with The Inhumans? Did Hulk just appear in Attilan and get attacked by The Inhumans on sight? (As that was how he remembered it)

[CMBMOOL]

I don't see any retcons. It simply deals with older stories from both Hulk and the Illuminati's point of view.

It's also worth mentioning, Kevin, that when the Hulk went mindless in THE INCREDIBLE HULK #300, that it was because Dr. Strange intentionally separated Banner's mind from the Hulk's (Banner asked him too). The split drove him mad and wiped out his humanity and conscious and ability to speak.


Hold it Mike Smash, I seems to recall the issue and remember that wasn't one of the reasons that the Hulk went mindless is because of Banner transforming into the Hulk within the mind? :(


Hulk #299: Hulk vs Strange

http://www.leaderslair.com/noexcuses/hulk2-299.html

Hulk #300: Hulk vs the Marvel heroes

http://www.leaderslair.com/noexcuses/hulk2-300.html

[Mike Smash!]

Really? Isn't that the same thing Doc Samson tried to do like 15-20 issues later?Exactly the same thing, except Samson went a step further and separated them physically as well.

Same result.

[Mike Smash!]

Hold it Mike Smash, I seems to recall the issue and remember that wasn't one of the reasons that the Hulk went mindless is because of Banner transforming into the Hulk within the mind? :(


Hulk #299: Hulk vs Strange

http://www.leaderslair.com/noexcuses/hulk2-299.html

Hulk #300: Hulk vs the Marvel heroes

http://www.leaderslair.com/noexcuses/hulk2-300.htmlI have the issues as well. At the time, Banner controlled the Hulk's power and could transform at will.

He started being tampered with by Nightmare and feared losing control of himself again and he began transforming into the Savage Hulk again when stressed.

He went to Strange for help and in the end, he asked Strange to bury his personality deep within the Hulk's mind so that he didn't have to live a double life anymore. Essentially imprison himself within the Hulk, so that Banner couldn't get out.

That separation turned the Hulk into a mindless, mute killer.

[CMBMOOL]

I have the issues as well. At the time, Banner controlled the Hulk's power and could transform at will.

He started being tampered with by Nightmare and feared losing control of himself again and he began transforming into the Savage Hulk again when stressed.

He went to Strange for help and in the end, he asked Strange to bury his personality deep within the Hulk's mind so that he didn't have to live a double life anymore. Essentially imprison himself within the Hulk, so that Banner couldn't get out.

That separation turned the Hulk into a mindless, mute killer.

Oh that how it went, sorry about that. :o