FLASH REBIRTH: The return of Barry Allen *SPOILERS*

[Hall of Doom]

I'm very excited for this and cannot wait for the Flash to get a top-tier creative team and start delivering good stories on a consistent basis. I've followed the Flash book since Fastest Man Alive #1 and have only seen brief instances of quality storytelling regardless of who was wearing the suit. If you like the Flash and can get past which fictional alter ego he has for the current moment, good stories are ahead.

[Pixie_Solanas]

they shouldn't have done lantern

Here's where you're wrong. JORDAN>Stewart + Rayner, combined

[sabongero]

Yeah ! If the story is going to be something that will make the Flash comic bok the way Green Lantern is nowadays...then I'm all for it.

I want to see what kind of "new addition" Van Sciver will have on the art of Flash: Rebirth.

[Ghost Shark]

I think Barry Allen should have stayed dead. Bringing him back cheapens his heroic final act.

That being said, it's Johns and Scriver, so I'll buy it. I am weak.

[chriskenny]

Ahem, two things

Firstly, I am firmly of the belief there is no place for more than one Flash in the DCU. I love Barry, absolutely love the character, and love Wally as well. But I do not believe for a second they can coexist as the Flash, because Wally WILL be Kyle Rayner-ised. BUT if there's one writer who can get it right, it's Geoff Johns. And secondly....

YES! YES! YES! GOD YES! MY FAVOURITE DC BOOK WILL BE INCREDIBLE AGAIN!

I agree. I don't really buy into the notion that there can be THREE Flashes. It just dilutes the concept. Green Lantern works because its built into a concept. But the more speedsters, the less impact the concept has. The only reason to have a bazillion Flashes is to make everyone happy. But it doesn't make much story sense.

I think if Barry is back, Wally needs to do a Jack Knight and retire. So few superheroes just decide to lead normal lives. Wally has a wife and two kids. He was too distracted with his responsibilities to family and home to even do monitor duty for the Justice League. I think an organic winding down of a great hero. He fought hard, kept the mantle up for the time Barry was gone, and now is going to live a life with his kids and wife.

And Maybe they can make his daughter the new Kid Flash and keep him part of the supporting cast, but I just think he has been written into a corner the past couple of years...

I think bringing back Barry is a nice clean start...

[Giant Guy]

I am a Wally fan all the way, but I am really looking forward to this. I think the kids have slowed Wally down a little. Wally has always had the personality but he has lost a lot of that over the course fo the entire series.

Now Barry is prime for this day and age. He is a police scientist. How cool will it be to get some CSI into the Flash stories. You can do so much with his alter-ego now that the 'bland' accusations will be addressed.

Geoff and Ethan are a great pair and I can't wait to pick it up. I hope they keep the legacy aspect and that Wally still keeps the costume, but Barry is going to be a nice restart for the Flash series.

[Darrell D.]

Now Barry is prime for this day and age. He is a police scientist. How cool will it be to get some CSI into the Flash stories. You can do so much with his alter-ego now that the 'bland' accusations will be addressed.



I keep seeing this, and I'm really not seeing it. 10 to 1 the writers will introduce that, get bored with it (or get tired of the research) and we'll go back to Barry running around his lab, cleaning or whatever.
I think it would be cool if they make the series just like the SA stories. Fun, accessible and not so continuity driven.

[barryallenfan]

My favorite all time charcter is back and I couldn't be happier. He gets the full class A treatment with the writer, artist, colorist, promo. I waited 23 yrs and I'm so friggin' happy. Thanks DC

[Giant Guy]

I keep seeing this, and I'm really not seeing it. 10 to 1 the writers will introduce that, get bored with it (or get tired of the research) and we'll go back to Barry running around his lab, cleaning or whatever.

All concepts in comics are subect to the willingness of the writer/editor. I don't even know if there are plans to handle Barry as a CSI Police Scientist. For all I know they will make him a returned hero from the grave and he will be the celebrity Wally used to be. I think the CSI hook could be a good one if played right. But the hardcore detective stories are hard so who knows how much we will really see. I also don't want too much of Barry in the lab coat. The costume is why I buy the book.

Maybe they can use the CSI drama as a slow build subplot that continues issue to issue in-between battles with Grodd and the Rogues and then builds to a big climax every few issues.

[AdamYJ]

I keep seeing this, and I'm really not seeing it. 10 to 1 the writers will introduce that, get bored with it (or get tired of the research) and we'll go back to Barry running around his lab, cleaning or whatever.
I think it would be cool if they make the series just like the SA stories. Fun, accessible and not so continuity driven.

As far as I understand it, the CSI TV shows aren't much like real forensic science work anyway. I wouldn't mind if they play the angle more, but they shouldn't try to ape a popular TV show for popularity.

[allenBarry]

You start out your post by saying you believe Barry Allen will be a well-written and engaging character, then you go on a lengthy rant about how it's so awful that DC is bringing back a character that you know nothing about ...
Okay, so why not look at it as a new Flash? If you know all about Wally, though, you should know that even HE believes Uncle Barry was the greatest Flash of all.
I want good stories, which is something we've not gotten from a Flash title in at least two years. The current version is horrible, the Bart Allen Flash was nearly unreadable and, after Geoff Johns left the last Flash title, it became just as bad as it is now.
So, why not give a new idea a try, even if it's an old idea refurbished?
If all you Wally West fans grew up with Wally and don't know or care much about Barry, shouldn't you give the next generation the same chance you got wen Wally (an already-existing character when he took over as Flash) took over the mantle from his uncle? This Flash will be a new Flash to them, with a touch of history added in for good measure.
Look at it that way. Don't write it off just yet or go around whining and complaining about how you can't believe DC would treat fans this way.
As I've said over in another thread, DC cares about making a buck. They're not bringing Barry back to satisfy any nostalgic yearning. They're doing it because they know it'll bring in a lot of bank.
Sure, it'd be nice to live in a world where businesses really did do things just for their customers, but it's not like that. DC is a business and the decision to bring Barry back has nothing to do with Geoff Johns wanting to bring him back. DC saw dollar signs when it was brought up to bring Barry back and that's what pushed the company to do Flash: Rebirth.
We all saw how big Hal's return to Green Lantern was and how much cash it put into the pockets of the Warner execs. Why should they stop there?
All you Wally fans shouldn't take it so personal. One poster on the other thread accused me of being insulting when nearly all of the anti-Barry people were being very insulting to all us Barry Allen fans (who, by the way, won and won big, just in case the anti-Barry clan missed it).
I want good Flash stories again. We've not had that in a while. Give this a chance. Maybe Barry isn't as fleshed out personalitywise as Wally. But, now it's time for Barry to reclaim the scarlett and gold uniform and rejoin the DCU.
Good stories are coming ... and you just might like them.

Very very well said. I do agree words by words. After 23 years Barry's got his chance to shine again, I'm really happy.

[COMIC GEEK]

Looks like 2 out of 4 has happened. :wink:

http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?p=6984976

[COMIC GEEK]

cant wait for rebirth :)

[Lupek]

Looks like 2 out of 4 has happened. :wink:

http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?p=6984976

I hope they don't kill off Wally's kids. But Hal and Barry together on the JLA might get me to buy that book again too.

And I've always loved Wally's Kid Flash outfit. I wouldn't mind seeing an updated costume reminiscent of that.

[Giant Guy]

As far as I understand it, the CSI TV shows aren't much like real forensic science work anyway. I wouldn't mind if they play the angle more, but they shouldn't try to ape a popular TV show for popularity.

I don't want them to ape CSI. I just feel it is a way to flesh out Barry's character a little more. I think the book needs to be Flash in action, but have a crime backdrop. You can't even do a true CSI crime drama in a meta world anyway. It would need to be altered. I just think the CSI aspect is a way to keep Barry from being flat and boring.

[Faustic Caust]

And I've always loved Wally's Kid Flash outfit. I wouldn't mind seeing an updated costume reminiscent of that.

Are you kidding me? Barry Allen was the Flash for only 7 YEARS longer than Wally West has been in the suit; putting Wally back in the Kid Flash suit is ridiculous.

[Giant Guy]

Putting Wally back in the Kid Flash suit is ridiculous.

I could not agree more. Good costume for a sidekick. Bad costume for a player in the JLA. I want the scarlet costume with Wally's modifications for Wally. Barry can have his classic costume.

[COMIC GEEK]

seems like inertia will be donning wally's old suit

[SUPERECWFAN1]

It makes sense.... Hal is back , Carter is back.... the old gang is nearly back togethor. Its time for Barry Allen to return .

[COMIC GEEK]

I hope they don't kill off Wally's kids. But Hal and Barry together on the JLA might get me to buy that book again too.

And I've always loved Wally's Kid Flash outfit. I wouldn't mind seeing an updated costume reminiscent of that.


well we know ollie and hal will be on one jla team so throw barry on there


I'm looking foward to the reaction and interaction within the dc universe once its known by all that barry is indeed back

[COMIC GEEK]

It makes sense.... Hal is back , Carter is back.... the old gang is nearly back togethor. Its time for Barry Allen to return .

all ya need is ronnie raymond and bring back the manhunter and aquaman and we could get the glory of the satellite era

[SUPERECWFAN1]

all ya need is ronnie raymond and bring back the manhunter and aquaman and we could get the glory of the satellite era

Soon.......... very soon you'll see them come back. Already Ray Palmer came back after his exile.

[COMIC GEEK]

Soon.......... very soon you'll see them come back. Already Ray Palmer came back after his exile.


well aquaman is a definite

[Darrell D.]

I hope they don't kill off Wally's kids. But Hal and Barry together on the JLA might get me to buy that book again too.

And I've always loved Wally's Kid Flash outfit. I wouldn't mind seeing an updated costume reminiscent of that.
Yeah, and while they're at, they can make Wally 12 years old again.
AWESOME!

[Lupek]

I like the red and yellow look. I didn't say he should go back to being Kid Flash.

Bucky Barnes is sporting a Captain America outfit that is reminiscent of Steve's old costume but it's different and contemporary. That's all I meant.

[COMIC GEEK]

I dont wanna see wally revert back to his old look, but nothing wron with a little yellow somewhere if they revamp his costume


wally did however I think had the best costume ever when he wore the yellow and red kid flash suit

[hondobrode]

Yeah there's room.

Jay in the JSA

I'm not sure what they'll do with Impulse. Hopefully put him in one of the Legions.

I still think Wally / Barry could co-exist in and out of the Speed Force as the Flash. One would need to be anchored there to act as a link to have the other one utilize the Speed Force and they take turns alternating between the DCU and the Speed Force dimension.

I haven't heard that anywhere but it's my theory. I'd like it.

[COMIC GEEK]

wally is suppose to still be on the titans and now with 2 jla rosters surely barry can be on one while wally is on another

[Faustic Caust]

I still think Wally / Barry could co-exist in and out of the Speed Force as the Flash.


"When Wally West bangs together his nega-bands, he trades places with his equally super-powered, surrogate father!" Kimota! Shazam!

[jackdaw53]

"When Wally West bangs together his nega-bands, he trades places with his equally super-powered, surrogate father!" Kimota! Shazam!

Has anybody figured out yet why the Barry Allen stories will be more interesting than the Wally West ones? Is Flash going to turn into a CSI type series using Barry as lead police scientist? Or is DC going to go for the romance market with Barry in danger of losing the gorgeous Iris because he keeps turning up late for dates?

[Darrell D.]

Has anybody figured out yet why the Barry Allen stories will be more interesting than the Wally West ones? Is Flash going to turn into a CSI type series using Barry as lead police scientist? Or is DC going to go for the romance market with Barry in danger of losing the gorgeous Iris because he keeps turning up late for dates?
I hope to see some purely fun SA style stories. Now, I know that won't happen with Geoff Johns writing, but maybe someone who actually understands the fun of the Flash will eventually write him.

[hondobrode]

"When Wally West bangs together his nega-bands, he trades places with his equally super-powered, surrogate father!" Kimota! Shazam!

but I still like the idea

[Guru_Pitka]

Has anybody figured out yet why the Barry Allen stories will be more interesting than the Wally West ones? Is Flash going to turn into a CSI type series using Barry as lead police scientist? Or is DC going to go for the romance market with Barry in danger of losing the gorgeous Iris because he keeps turning up late for dates?

I think saying they will be more interesting is going too far..

But thats usually what happens when someone chooses one character over another. The character they like is always more "interesting" while the character they like less is "boring."

I am looking forward to seeing Barry in his own series again. I think that will be very interesting to me.

Wally West in his own series with a great writer will be interesting too.

In both cases, its on the writer to bring out what makes that character interesting.

[J L Brooklyn]

Geoff Johns and Van Sciver will make the Flash universe more interesting character-wise, but they won't fix it.

1) The Flash needs to be slowed down, back to the speeds Wally West was at the start of his run. He could run at the speed of sound. Final Crisis would be a great opportunity to de-power some of DC's heroes, but I don't think that'll happen. And these guys power levels really need to be brought down.

When I say that the Flash moves at lightspeed, no one has a chance against him, I get responses like- "well it takes the Flash a little time to get up to those speeds" etc... THAT'S BS. In Joe Kelly's run, the Flash once evacuated over HALF A MILLION people from Chongjin, North Korea before it got nuked in .00001 microseconds. The man can reach lightspeeds in less than a microsecond. In JLA #23, Flash is forced to steal Amazo's speed because using the Flash's level of speed powers, Amazo would have been able to kill the entire League before they even knew they were being attacked. That's freakin' ridiculous. Not only that, but McDuffie felt he had to give the readers an explanation as to why Superman got to Amazo before the fastest man alive did. No wonder the JLA is always fighting Amazo these days, no one else stands a chance.

2) When I say that the Rogues can't challenge a guy who moves at the speed of light... I get responses like, "well, the Rogues aren't really a good foil for the Flash". So, I guess he's stuck fighting Zoom and Amazo all the time then, right? THAT'S BS. The Rogues are some of the greatest villains ever. The new villains Geoff Johns and Mark Waid sucked balls and Geoff knows it. Betcha this time we get more classic villains and a lot less lames. All the Rogues don't need to be thrown at the Flash to make it interesting. That gets stale after awhile, if it hasn't already. Flash just needs to be slowed down. Back in the pre-crisis days Flash used to fight his villains one on one most of the time... and those guys would always put the screws to the fastest man alive.

3) Ethan Van Sciver doesn't need to go all into detail about how Flash's boots have got wings on them and they're clunkier and the belts different... Wally just needs to give Barry the costume off of his back.

And as far as EVS trying to show how fast the Flash is with glowing eyes and little ligtning bolts... that's corny. Zoom's got it right when they show his almost constantly blurred image. I'll even take Frank Quitley's depictions of Flash and Johnny Quick over the freakin' lightning bolts. Flash is looking like a white man's Black Lighning right now.

4) GJ and EVS are doing a few things right however... having the Flash fight his Rogues and focusing on Barry's CSI job are big steps in the right direction.

[Buried Alien]

I'm very glad that Barry Allen is finally going to be back. Faith rewarded...AT LAST.

Wally West should remain an active and prominent figure in the DCU even after Barry's return as the Flash.

1. Wally is himself and awesome character whose history is nearly as long as Barry's.

2. He has carried the torch honorably for more than twenty years.

3. He has many fans and continues to be popular.

4. As a Barry Allen fan, I know how difficult it was to have my favorite version of the Flash put out to pasture for so many years. I also know that I wouldn't wish it on any other Flash's fan.

Of course, the difficult question is...how? How to give Wally a meaningful and appropriate role now that Barry is returning as the Flash?

I don't know the answer to that one, but I trust that Geoff Johns does.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

[Kevinroc]

I'm very glad that Barry Allen is finally going to be back. Faith rewarded...AT LAST.

Wally West should remain an active and prominent figure in the DCU even after Barry's return as the Flash.

1. Wally is himself and awesome character whose history is nearly as long as Barry's.

2. He has carried the torch honorably for more than twenty years.

3. He has many fans and continues to be popular.

4. As a Barry Allen fan, I know how difficult it was to have my favorite version of the Flash put out to pasture for so many years. I also know that I wouldn't wish it on any other Flash's fan.

Of course, the difficult question is...how? How to give Wally a meaningful and appropriate role now that Barry is returning as the Flash?

I don't know the answer to that one, but I trust that Geoff Johns does.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

The vibe I got from SDCC is that the main Flash book spinning out of Rebirth will be about Jay, Barry, Wally and Bart as some kind of team. But that might have just been Rebirth itself.

(Yes, I know Bart is technically "dead" at the moment but it is blatantly obvious he is coming back in Legion of 3 Worlds.)

[jackdaw53]

J L Brooklyn:

I never double checked it, but a friend of mine who's usually accurate worked out that to do that evacuation feat Wally needed to move at many times the speed of light. It often amuses me to see person after person posting why Superman had to be de-powered.... but all tend to ignore the fact that all other key DC players have been ramped up enormously. Why? It doesn't seem to really make for better comics.

In Wally's case... his power set makes him unstoppable... unless he's written inaccurately. ("Why hasn't Darkseid moved for 2 years, Wally? Oh.. he annoyed me, so I stole all his speed.") Is that really a good story telling set-up??

[J L Brooklyn]

J L Brooklyn:

I never double checked it, but a friend of mine who's usually accurate worked out that to do that evacuation feat Wally needed to move at many times the speed of light. It often amuses me to see person after person posting why Superman had to be de-powered.... but all tend to ignore the fact that all other key DC players have been ramped up enormously. Why? It doesn't seem to really make for better comics.

In Wally's case... his power set makes him unstoppable... unless he's written inaccurately. ("Why hasn't Darkseid moved for 2 years, Wally? Oh.. he annoyed me, so I stole all his speed.") Is that really a good story telling set-up??

True indeed.

Wally is an omnipotent god now fighting bank robbers. Everytime I say things like this I get responses like "well, the characters don't need to be de-powered, the writers need to be more creative". JLA #23 was the best JLA issue I ever read, but as good as it was... I felt like McDuffie had to follow all of these rules put forth by a convoluted continuity. It forced the order of events in the story.

Everybody seems to agree with me on this de-powering issue, except comic readers. Let me point out to you that in the animated series Flash does not move at the speed of light. Look at the upcoming DC Universe MMO, Flash is not running up the side of that building at lightspeed. Do you think the speedsters in the game will ever be allowed to reach lightspeed status? Hell no! No one would want to lose to these guys all the time.

I really don't understand why these guys are so powerful, now we have Green Lanterns who can blow holes through any adversary. So now we know that a GL can win any fight through use of lethal force... they just took a lot of lumps because they were holding back... because they are true heroes! Booorrrring.

[Jared H.]

Has anyone made a Yellow Slow Monster joke yet?

Seriously though, I find myself looking forward to this, especially if it means Johns will be returning to the Flash series again for a while.

[Phil3940]

I wonder that Barry Allen back as Flash, what do with wally west ? he will give up as flash or what ? please let me know okay

[Hall of Doom]

Below is an answer to this question from Geoff Johns, the link to the full article is included below as well.

CBR News knew we wouldn't get a true answer, but still we asked, "Will DCU post-'Flash: Rebirth' have room for both Barry Allen and Wally West," Johns responded, "That's a question that's going to be answered in the book. I don't want to get into it yet but I will say there is stuff happening that will feed into 'The Flash: Rebirth' that I am working on right now in both 'Rogues' Revenge' and 'Legion of Three Worlds.'"

http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=17385

[Kelson]

Wally is an omnipotent god now fighting bank robbers. Everytime I say things like this I get responses like "well, the characters don't need to be de-powered, the writers need to be more creative".

I read some commentary recently on the Golden Age Flash stories which pointed out that in many ways they were a more realistic treatment of super-speed than what we see today. The villains in the first few years -- mostly bank robbers, gangsters, corrupt politicians, etc. -- never stood a chance, and the only reason the fights lasted more than a panel or two was that Jay was literally toying with the criminals.

[Ghost Shark]

Wally will become a being made of pure Speed Force and live in Barry's Flash ring. Barry will rub his magic ring whenever he needs the extra fast help. :biggrin:

[Super Buddies Forever]

And yet DC wonders why nobody gave a flying leap over the Martian Manhunter's death.

We're now stuck, forever and ever, in a generational tug of war. The current regime revives Hal Jordan, Jason Todd, and Barry Allen, so to make the universe have consequences, they kill Ted Kord, Conner Kent, and J'onn. Guess what happens when Team DiDio leaves? We'll see those three characters returned to life in extremely contrived "rebirth" tales (perfectly preserved bodies! Cosmic anamolies! Souls attached to parasitic demons! Clones!) while... I don't know... Booster Gold, Steel, and Plastic Man take a dirt nap to give the universe a few martyrs. Of course, we'll hear the same lines as always. "Of course there's room in the DCU for fifteen Blue Beetles! Everyone will get their share of the spotlight!"

I love Johns, I really do, but it seems like decisions are being made now without considering the ramifications on DC's history. Fast food may taste great, but is it worth eating when the meat came from a sacred cow? It seems to me this is why DC needed to get their own "ultimate" universe up and running, so we could have the Alex Ross happy time Super Friends world without eliminating consequence in the main line.

[hondobrode]

there's room for more GL's than just Hal. You don't have to pick between Hal, Kyle, Guy or John. They're all different.

Same with the Flashes. Jay, Barry, Bart and Wally. I like em all.

Flash's power level is incredible, that's true, but with incredible power, like Superman, also comes incredible flaws and opportunities for great stories.

[Buried Alien]

Re-establishing Barry Allen as the Flash is relatively easy. Just put him back in the red tights and have him doing superspeed feats again.

Re-establishing Barry Allen's civilian life will be more challenging.

Barry has been gone long, long time...much longer than either Hal Jordan or Oliver Queen were. Moreover, Barry's civilian life was much more institutionally-based than Hal's or Ollie's were. Hal and Ollie sort of drifted through life. Their temporary deaths affected only their closest associates. Barry was a respected police scientist in the Central City Police Department.

Several things to consider:

1. Iris, of course. Assuming that Barry returns at the same age that he perished in COIE, he's younger than Iris is now. That will be awkward.

2. Will Barry be able to return to his old job in the crime lab of the CCPD? How will he explain how he's suddenly returned from a years-long disappearance? The nature of Barry's job means that this question will be carefuly scrutinized.

3. Related to that, Barry's civilian life ended even before he died in COIE. Because of the trial for the killing of the Reverse Flash, Barry Allen had officially been missing since the day of his would-be wedding with Fiona Webb. Most don't know what became of Barry after that day.

4. Barry disappeared shortly before the Flash (Barry) did. Now that the Flash (Barry) has returned, and Barry returns shortly afterwards as well...people are going to get suspicious, aren't they?

5. Is Barry still interested in maintaining a secret identity? He was adamant about it in the past, but I wonder how he'll feel about it now? His identity was actually public for a few years before the Spectre (Hal) performed an in-story retcon for Wally's sake.

Some things to consider as Barry returns to the DCU.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

[Darrell D.]

Re-establishing Barry Allen as the Flash is relatively easy. Just put him back in the red tights and have him doing superspeed feats again.

Re-establishing Barry Allen's civilian life will be more challenging.

Barry has been gone long, long time...much longer than either Hal Jordan or Oliver Queen were. Moreover, Barry's civilian life was much more institutionally-based than Hal's or Ollie's were. Hal and Ollie sort of drifted through life. Their temporary deaths affected only their closest associates. Barry was a respected police scientist in the Central City Police Department.

Several things to consider:

1. Iris, of course. Assuming that Barry returns at the same age that he perished in COIE, he's younger than Iris is now. That will be awkward.

2. Will Barry be able to return to his old job in the crime lab of the CCPD? How will he explain how he's suddenly returned from a years-long disappearance? The nature of Barry's job means that this question will be carefuly scrutinized.

3. Related to that, Barry's civilian life ended even before he died in COIE. Because of the trial for the killing of the Reverse Flash, Barry Allen had officially been missing since the day of his would-be wedding with Fiona Webb. Most don't know what became of Barry after that day.

4. Barry disappeared shortly before the Flash (Barry) did. Now that the Flash (Barry) has returned, and Barry returns shortly afterwards as well...people are going to get suspicious, aren't they?

5. Is Barry still interested in maintaining a secret identity? He was adamant about it in the past, but I wonder how he'll feel about it now? His identity was actually public for a few years before the Spectre (Hal) performed an in-story retcon for Wally's sake.

Some things to consider as Barry returns to the DCU.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

DC will probably one of two things, if past experience serves:
1. Explain, explain, explain, until it gets incredibly convoluted and incoherent (See: Hawkman) or
2. Emoboy-Prime punch.

[sabongero]

Holy ... this thread is now up to 754 replies or so (more than the "Return of Barry Allen" thread and that is a few years old), and I just started this several weeks ago. Great discussion guys. It's really a telling sign that Barry Allen/Flash is going to have a large core group of readers when it hits the shelf. I just hope that after Johns & Van Sciver, it becomes a regular, with at least Johns helming the writing duties. And I'm sure we'll have Bart make guest appearances, at least his future version self.

[Joe Rice]

If it's anything like Green Lantern: Rebirth I expect Barry's new personality to completely miss the point and make me like him even less, after Cooke had finally made me like him.

[Hypestyle]

what is barry's personality compared to the other Flashes?

how will this be dealt with Wally?

will they wear the same costume?

[xionice]

http://img530.imageshack.us/img530/8475/flashfamilya1024ib9.th.jpg (http://img530.imageshack.us/my.php?image=flashfamilya1024ib9.jpg)

Barry has wings on his boots and the "belt" band is completely circular, it doesn't strike down.

Wally and Bart's are pretty much identical, except that Bart has yellow eyes, which tends to differentiate them.

[phantom1592]

http://img530.imageshack.us/img530/8475/flashfamilya1024ib9.th.jpg (http://img530.imageshack.us/my.php?image=flashfamilya1024ib9.jpg)

Barry has wings on his boots and the "belt" band is completely circular, it doesn't strike down.

Wally and Bart's are pretty much identical, except that Bart has yellow eyes, which tends to differentiate them.

Has anyone seen the trailer yet for Mortal Combat vs Dc universe? As stupid an idea as it sounds... the trailer shows a flash with Yellow lightning bolts around his upper arms/Shoulder area. Makes me wonder if its a massive screw up or if they know something about a new costume that we don't.

[chriskenny]

wally is suppose to still be on the titans and now with 2 jla rosters surely barry can be on one while wally is on another

I am pretty agnostic about who ends up The Flash, but count me as someone who just wants one. The point of a superhero is that he is unique, that he is one of a kind. It's what makes him super. It annoys me when there is a small platoon of heroes that have the same exact powers or theme (Green Arrow, Red Arrow, Connor Hawke, and Speedy... can we dilute what makes Ollie Queen stand out anymore???)

If it has been decided that Barry is the new Flash, then let him be the new Flash. Wally has two kids and a wife to look after. Heroes either go on FOREVER (I'm looking at you Jay Garrick and Alan Scott!) or they die horrendously. Let's see Wally West get the ending so few of them get-- happy, contented retirement! Wouldn't it be nice to see an end to a career that was a happy ending for the character. Have his daughter be Barry's Kid Flash.

[COMIC GEEK]

for all you flash fans

read legion of 3 worlds #1 or at least skim through it :wink:

[Accroître]

In all the details of all the interviews/post. I still have a question about his return. We see him in FC #2. So his rebirth has taken place right? Is this mini series going to tell us about the events leading us to FC?

[Kevinroc]

In all the details of all the interviews/post. I still have a question about his return. We see him in FC #2. So his rebirth has taken place right? Is this mini series going to tell us about the events leading us to FC?

No, the mini is supposed to be about reintegrating Barry into the larger DCU (code for high profile revamp of The Flash by making it an event book).

[echopryme]

This will turn into a ploy to get Wally in the Kindom Come role, I promise you.


Jesus, DC is all wrapped up in Kingdom Come.

[jackdaw53]

This will turn into a ploy to get Wally in the Kindom Come role, I promise you.


Jesus, DC is all wrapped up in Kingdom Come.

Why??

When I read it I thought it was an okay "elsewhere/ what if" story. But I suppose because its set in a possible future it does lend itself to possible use in present story lines to some extent? If that's what you want to do?

[Darrell D.]

This will turn into a ploy to get Wally in the Kindom Come role, I promise you.


Jesus, DC is all wrapped up in Kingdom Come.

Holy crap, I never thought of that. Seeing as Johns brought the KC Superman into JSoA, I wouldn't be surprised. Someone certainly has a hard-on for that story.

[Duy]

You know, I'm happy we'll get to see four Flashes running around, as I'm a really big fan of dynasty comics, but...

WHY are they changing Wally's costume?? WHY WHY WHY???

[spidervenom]

if anyone can bail a character out, it's geoff john's. and if it's beechen, just keep hitting him with a rolled up newspaper and hope he go's away.

[Buried Alien]

WHY are they changing Wally's costume?? WHY WHY WHY???

He really can't go running around looking almost identical to Barry.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

[Raker616]

It'll be interesting to see what EVS comes up with regarding Wally's new costume.

[carabas]

I bet it'll look very Kingdom Comey.

[OzBat!]

All they really need to do is go back to the costume Wally was wearing pre #80, "The Return of Barry Allen". They had no problems with two flashes in the one comic, and no problems telling them apart either - the so-called "shiny" costume. White eyes, emphasise the non-connected, angular belt (not Barry's straight beltline), no wingtips on the boots... worked just fine!

In fact, the only problem was nobody outside the regular Flash penciller could draw the damn thing. Maybe he should come back and do a training course for DC artists or something!

[Darrell D.]

He really can't go running around looking almost identical to Barry.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

Why not? He did when he was first created.

The Green Lantern Corps members all have similar costumes.

Just don't give Wally that lame Kid Flash costume. I'd rather he wore the Walter West version.

[spidervenom]

Why not? He did when he was first created.

The Green Lantern Corps members all have similar costumes.

Just don't give Wally that lame Kid Flash costume. I'd rather he wore the Walter West version.

yeah, the walter west coustume imo would be a good replacement costume.

[Buried Alien]

Why not? He did when he was first created.

He was much smaller than Barry then, and wouldn't be mistaken for Barry if they were in the same panel together.



The Green Lantern Corps members all have similar costumes.


Ones that don't cover their heads under a cowl, making them indistinguishable from one another.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

[Darrell D.]

He was much smaller than Barry then, and wouldn't be mistaken for Barry if they were in the same panel together.



Ones that don't cover their heads under a cowl, making them indistinguishable from one another.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

I think a variation of the Walter West costume would be best. It was a snazzy looking suit.
Or, they could just let him retire. I actually would rather see that happen, rather than Wally be brushed aside and used hardly at all (Kyle Rayner, anyone?).
That would actually be cool. A sense of closure.

[josh straightedge]

I really hate what DC is doing with the Flash. Barry should stay dead. I mean, it's ok when he pops up every rare great once in a while but if he's back for good then that's stupid. He had a great, heroic death. Leave Bart dead too. I know my opinion is of the minority, I didn't want Hal back either because I'd love how they'd built up Kyle. Oh well.

[OzBat!]

I gotta disagree, the Walter West flash suit was horrendous.

Go with Wally's shiny suit. Make it open-topped like the kid flash version. (I thought they were heading this direction during the Return of Barry Allen storyline, when the suit got torn, showing Wally's hair. It looked pretty good)

[ruppan]

I'm against Wally retiring. It's a nice sentiment, but a little against his character. Wally has been a superhero for most of his life, and he's at the prime of his abilities. It would be like an athlete who retires too young. They always itch for it. I think it would probably be even worse for Wally, who wouldn't just miss the action, but also feel guilt for abandoning his friends and his city.

If Wally has to give up the Flash costume, I'd rather he just adopt a whole other costumed persona totally separate from the Flash. Wally's been the most realized teen-to-adult hero this side of Spiderman. Without feeling the need to honor Barry's memory, Wally should become his own man completely.

[OzBat!]

Wally has been the Flash almost as long as Barry was. On top of that, he was Kid Flash during Barry's tenure as Flash. Technically, Wally's career is almost double that of Barry's. I don't think he needs to move on to another identity at all.

[Blueferret]

Wally has been the Flash almost as long as Barry was. On top of that, he was Kid Flash during Barry's tenure as Flash. Technically, Wally's career is almost double that of Barry's. I don't think he needs to move on to another identity at all.

Exactly. Barry's comic lasted 245 issues and Wally's is up to 242, so they've been flash for the same amount of time as far as issues published. There is room for more than one Flash.

[Duy]

He really can't go running around looking almost identical to Barry.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)
I'm sorry to say this then, Buried, but--

Barry should get HIS costume changed.

Why? Because Wally is more known as the Flash, and quite frankly, his version of the costume (with the streamlined belt and lack of wings on the boots) is cooler.

Just my $.02.

[Buried Alien]

I think a variation of the Walter West costume would be best. It was a snazzy looking suit.

The Walter West costume done in the traditional Flash colors has been mooted before and would work well for Wally.


Wally has been the Flash almost as long as Barry was. On top of that, he was Kid Flash during Barry's tenure as Flash. Technically, Wally's career is almost double that of Barry's. I don't think he needs to move on to another identity at all.


I'm sorry to say this then, Buried, but--

Barry should get HIS costume changed.


The costume originated with Barry, which means he should get priority to it. It's one thing when he was dead, but now that he's back in action, he's got a better claim to the costume than anybody else.

I've never sought out a Barry/Wally contest, but it seems like I can't enthuse about Barry without getting responses of, "...but Wally yadda yadda."

If you all really want to make a contest out of it, I'll reluctantly oblige.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

[david r]

@Buried Alien, if Flash:Rebirth isn't so much a Barry Allen solo book, but more a Barry/Wally/Bart book, would that be ok with you? Or do you prefer Barry Allen back as the one, true Flash with no others in the spotlight with him?

[Buried Alien]

@Buried Alien, if Flash:Rebirth isn't so much a Barry Allen solo book, but more a Barry/Wally/Bart book, would that be ok with you? Or do you prefer Barry Allen back as the one, true Flash with no others in the spotlight with him?

I'm fine with Wally sharing the book. I have nothing against the guy. He was great as Kid Flash and great as Flash in his own right.

I'm just sick of people getting in my face about Wally every time Barry comes up.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

[OzBat!]

Thanks Buried, for implying I've said something I've come nowhere near, once, ever. I'm not making a contest out of it at all. By quoting me in the middle of those other lines it makes it appear that I've agreed Barry should change HIS costume, when the only argument I've made is that Wally doesn't need to change his. One does not require the other.

I've repeatedly said that Wally's costume was sufficiently varied from Barry's so as to not make a case of mistaken identity; he's been in it long enough to not have to change simply because Barry is back.

That's it. Sum total. Nothing else added or taken away. Finito.

It sounds to me like you're looking for creating contests yourself, conjuring them up from me when I wasn't interested in one.

[Darrell D.]

I'm against Wally retiring. It's a nice sentiment, but a little against his character. Wally has been a superhero for most of his life, and he's at the prime of his abilities. It would be like an athlete who retires too young. They always itch for it. I think it would probably be even worse for Wally, who wouldn't just miss the action, but also feel guilt for abandoning his friends and his city.

If Wally has to give up the Flash costume, I'd rather he just adopt a whole other costumed persona totally separate from the Flash. Wally's been the most realized teen-to-adult hero this side of Spiderman. Without feeling the need to honor Barry's memory, Wally should become his own man completely.

Well, I really don't want to see Wally retire either, but it appears he's not going to have a title anymore. The same thing happened to Kyle, remember? I'd rather see him retire than brushed aside.

[Duy]

I'm fine with Wally sharing the book. I have nothing against the guy. He was great as Kid Flash and great as Flash in his own right.

I'm just sick of people getting in my face about Wally every time Barry comes up.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)
Sorry about that; that wasn't my intention. Although I recognize Barry's place in history, I'll always be partial to Wally (although, at this point, Wally's pretty much where Barry was at when his series ended, isn't he?) and the fact that he has to get a costume change threw me in a fanboy tizzy. Quite frankly, Wally's version of the costume is my favorite costume in all of comics, and I just don't see the need for him to change it. Coloring differences (Wally's suit is darker), the belt, and maybe giving him back the Batman-no-iris look would be enough to distinguish.

That having been said, I'm glad to finally see the three of them (hopefully the four of them) running together again (for the first time?).

[OzBat!]

Barry has never run with his grandson Bart, this is true. Unless you count the weird alternate version in the place where Bart kept Superboy-Prime contained for 4 years; that also had a version of Jay and Wally there - when Jay was clearly still on New Earth, and Wally had since been revealed to be on an alien world instead.

[Buried Alien]

Thanks Buried, for implying I've said something I've come nowhere near, once, ever. I'm not making a contest out of it at all. By quoting me in the middle of those other lines it makes it appear that I've agreed Barry should change HIS costume, when the only argument I've made is that Wally doesn't need to change his. One does not require the other.

I've repeatedly said that Wally's costume was sufficiently varied from Barry's so as to not make a case of mistaken identity; he's been in it long enough to not have to change simply because Barry is back.

That's it. Sum total. Nothing else added or taken away. Finito.

It sounds to me like you're looking for creating contests yourself, conjuring them up from me when I wasn't interested in one.


Sorry about that; that wasn't my intention. Although I recognize Barry's place in history, I'll always be partial to Wally (although, at this point, Wally's pretty much where Barry was at when his series ended, isn't he?) and the fact that he has to get a costume change threw me in a fanboy tizzy. Quite frankly, Wally's version of the costume is my favorite costume in all of comics, and I just don't see the need for him to change it. Coloring differences (Wally's suit is darker), the belt, and maybe giving him back the Batman-no-iris look would be enough to distinguish.

That having been said, I'm glad to finally see the three of them (hopefully the four of them) running together again (for the first time?).

OK. I regret having overreacted. It's the unfortunate result of the forum tending to go to Defcon 1 on me every time I remotely say anything positive about Barry.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

[Lupek]

Preview - 'Final Crisis #3' (http://www.newsarama.com/php/multimedia/album.php?aid=20471)

Iris is milfy.

[barryallenfan]

In the Final Crisis#3 preview, you can get a pretty good idea how all the Flashes working together will be great . They look like a team...awesome ..I can't wait to see where Geoff will take it

[Lord Destiny]

It's unthinkable that Wally would want anything less than Barry to wear his old suit again.

And it's also unthinkable that Barry would deny Wally that same suit--since it was Barry's idea they share the same design in the first place.

And I'd argue that it would (and should) be Wally who decides--AGAIN--to put aside the original suit and don a suit more uniquely his own.

[FreeFallin]

It's unthinkable that Wally would want anything less than Barry to wear his old suit again.

And it's also unthinkable that Barry would deny Wally that same suit--since it was Barry's idea they share the same design in the first place.

And I'd argue that it would (and should) be Wally who decides--AGAIN--to put aside the original suit and don a suit more uniquely his own.

exactly case closed.

[Lupek]

I was looking at the cover of the Wild Wests trade and I dig Wally's kids outfits. They look sharp. That might be a good look for Wally too.

[Kelson]

Barry has never run with his grandson Bart, this is true. Unless you count the weird alternate version in the place where Bart kept Superboy-Prime contained for 4 years; that also had a version of Jay and Wally there - when Jay was clearly still on New Earth, and Wally had since been revealed to be on an alien world instead.

Or the imaginary Barry from the Impulse issue that "kinda sorta" tied into Chain Lightning.

[Buried Alien]

I wonder if Barry actually managed to catch the bullet.

And where he went, since apparently he (and Wally) didn't go home with Jay immediately afterwards.

Guess we'll all find out tomorow.


Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

[Superboy-Prime]

Didn't wally m,ention that he wanted to retire aka (sow down a bit) and raise his kids without being the flash? I could've swore he said that before they got pulled into the speed force.

anyways, I'm Glad Barry is back, I've been reading about him and such,especially when he mentioned to wally about the rogues turning good. that was a well done story. I never read his own books, so it's nice to bring back the character so people can read about him again.

[COMIC GEEK]

ethan has already said that he will be redoing wally's costume.

so one, wally wont be retiring and two, yes wally is getting a new look

[Kevinroc]

Preview - 'Final Crisis #3' (http://www.newsarama.com/php/multimedia/album.php?aid=20471)

Iris is milfy.

Technically, Iris is a grandmother, so she's gmilfy.

Actually, it does kinda bug me when they draw Iris looking relatively young. She had and lived with children that aged naturally to adulthood. She only went back to have Wally help Bart (who did age rapidly. He was technically two years old when he first showed up).

I know this isn't the first time they've drawn Iris looking younger than she should be but it is a bit annoying. Sometimes she looks like she is around Jay's age and other times she looks much younger than him. Since Barry is coming back, I do think it would be interesting to see him have some kind of interaction with his clearly elderly wife. Barry's supposed to be... what... in his 30s?

[Superboy-Prime]

nah that'll be abit to creepy for my tastes. Leave her de-aged.


there should be a barry solo book. with another title dedicated to jay and wally. Its gonna annoy the hell out of me reading about 3 flashes in one book.

[Kevinroc]

nah that'll be abit to creepy for my tastes. Leave her de-aged.


there should be a barry solo book. with another title dedicated to jay and wally. Its gonna annoy the hell out of me reading about 3 flashes in one book.

That's the thing... Iris hasn't actually been de-aged. She's just drawn younger.

And why are you ignoring Bart when it's pretty much guaranteed he's coming back?

[Superboy-Prime]

forgot about Bart, no need to get on my case about it,damn!


Bart better come back de-aged. the accelerated aging gimmick didn't work out.

[jackdaw53]

Star Trek made it so much easier on fans. When the crew were beaming down on an away mission you knew the guy from security you'd never seen before was going to die, and everybody else would survive. So you could relax, and concentrate on the important stuff like how long it would take Captain Kirk to find a new lady friend.

DC is much harder on fans. Everybody dies at some point. If your favorite character is major league you know they are coming back.... but even then you have to worry about how long, and whether he or she will be so "improved" on return that you wish DC had never bothered. If you like less "important" characters (e.g. like I like Shayera Thal) you've got the extra aggro of wondering whether they will ever re-appear.... and almost certainly the less than comforting knowledge that they died in a pointless "special event".

So to make it easier on fans, I suggest DC make a few simple changes. All characters should have a A, B, or C stamped on their forehead. The A level characters should never die, but from time to time get utterly exhausted in "major events". Doc Midnite should examine them, put them into suspended animation, and mark them for return in 6 months, a year to two, etc. B characters should be allowed to die, but guaranteed re-birth sometimes in the next ten years. C level characters just die, and never come back... unless a fan is willing to send $50k to DC's editor.

[TeamED209]

So this might be pre mature but does that last scene mean that barry is faster?cause it looked like him about to catch the bullet since he had the straight lighting belt

[OzBat!]

"faster" is all relative when you're travelling faster than light, which is what Jay was saying. Plus there's the fact that Barry was already chasing the bullet and being chased by the Black Racer, Wally and Jay had to get going from a standing start!

What was interesting was Jay's comment, that both Barry and Wally were accelerating. That's awesome imagery. Already faster than light, and still pushing it further...

[Buried Alien]

What's slightly confusing is that Barry and Wally obviously failed to get the bullet, which is why Orion is dead. And yet, in that last image in Jay's recollection, Barry seems to have his hand around some small object (i.e. a bullet), and there's a satisfied smile on his face, suggesting that he caught it.

But he didn't catch it.

So what's going on?


Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

[TeamED209]

Maybe they were traveling through time and barry only caught it after it had gone through orion?..although Green lantern found it in the concrete so that seems unlikely, guess we'll have to wait for final crisis

[Kelson]

So this might be pre mature but does that last scene mean that barry is faster?cause it looked like him about to catch the bullet since he had the straight lighting belt

If Barry's going to be DC's main Flash, then yes, he's faster. Just like Bart was the fastest when he was the main Flash, and just like Wally was the fastest when he was the main Flash (except for the first few years when he was depowered).

[Slyfer]

Barry and Wally failed but found out something really freaky in the end .

[Loren]

Chances are this question's already been asked, but since I'm not anxious to wade through 50 pages of posts:

Does anybody else think that this might, just might, be a huge fakeout by DC? Bringing Barry back at all during Final Crisis was a pretty big move, and a closely held secret up 'til the last minute. Announcing midway through the series that he'll survive the story and stick around for a big "He's Back for Good!" mini-series seems to run counter to that approach. If it's legit, I don't know how Final Crisis will pan out, but I know Barry's back and OK on the other end.

So to throw off everyone's expectations, DC announces "Flash: Rebirth" before Final Crisis #3 even ships. Fandom gets excited, and then Morrison pulls the rug out from everyone when Barry doesn't stick around at the end. It's not like DC didn't do something similar with a Flash series just last year.

The downside, of course, would be that such a scheme might infuriate fans unnecessarily, and drive readers away. It also would require Johns and Van Sciver to basically lie to fans for months. But still, I'd be amused.

[barryallenfan]

for all Worried Flash fans , here's a very insightful interview with Ethan
http://www.newsarama.com/comics/080808-WBEthanVanSciver.html

[Buried Alien]

for all Worried Flash fans , here's a very insightful interview with Ethan
http://www.newsarama.com/comics/080808-WBEthanVanSciver.html

Of course, some fans will read it and worry some more...

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

[Maestro]

Of course, some fans will read it and worry some more...

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

I recommend listening to it instead.

[barryallenfan]

I recommend listening to it instead.

actually, thats right. There is so much more on the podcast than what was written in the article. I highly reccomend listening to it

[Darrell D.]

Of course, some fans will read it and worry some more...

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

Unless he comes over to my house and rips up all my pre-Geoff Johns Flash comics, I really have no reason to worry.
Best thing about being casual about comics is ignoring crap you don't care for.

[sabongero]

Does anyone have an opinion on what Geoff plans to do with Iris West Allen ? Is she going to stay old as she is now (grandmother age to Bart), or do you think she will be brought back to her younger age in some juncture in a future issue of The Flash.

[Faustic Caust]

Does anyone have an opinion on what Geoff plans to do with Iris West Allen ? Is she going to stay old as she is now (grandmother age to Bart), or do you think she will be brought back to her younger age in some juncture in a future issue of The Flash.

Bart was never really that old (three or four?) so you could make the case for Iris being no older than her early fifties. She and Barry do have adult children, after all. I think it'd be more interesting to de-age Barry and leave Iris physically a couple of decades older than him.

That said, this isn't even her original body, right? Something about a murder and time travel and clones? Can't imagine why Flash wasn't selling in the 80s.

[Kevinroc]

Bart was never really that old (three or four?) so you could make the case for Iris being no older than her early fifties. She and Barry do have adult children, after all. I think it'd be more interesting to de-age Barry and leave Iris physically a couple of decades older than him.

That said, this isn't even her original body, right? Something about a murder and time travel and clones? Can't imagine why Flash wasn't selling in the 80s.

Iris was killed by the first Zoom back in the day. Because of the way time travel works in the DCU, this created a paradox (a person dying before they were even born) and her parents used their technology to pull Iris's soul into a new body.

This seems to be what Geoff Johns is doing with the Legion of Super-Heroes going back in time and using the Lightning Rod to obtain the soul of Bart Allen.

[Buried Alien]

Here's something to chew on:

Barry Allen's life was uniquely tied into the Multiverse. His death in the First Crisis occurred prior to the merging of the five remaining parallel universes into what would become the Post-COIE DC Universe.

Now that Barry is back, which of these scenarios is more likely to occur when he gets a chance to sit down and talk with Jay and Wally:

"Central City and Keystone City are across a river from each other...yeah, that's right. That's how I remember it, sure."

or

"What th'...? Why are Central and Keystone on the same Earth? What Earth is this? Central City is on Earth-One, and Keystone City is on Earth-Two. What the devil is going on here?"

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

[Duy]

Here's something to chew on:

Barry Allen's life was uniquely tied into the Multiverse. His death in the First Crisis occurred prior to the merging of the five remaining parallel universes into what would become the Post-COIE DC Universe.

Now that Barry is back, which of these scenarios is more likely to occur when he gets a chance to sit down and talk with Jay and Wally:

"Central City and Keystone City are across a river from each other...yeah, that's right. That's how I remember it, sure."

or

"What th'...? Why are Central and Keystone on the same Earth? What Earth is this? Central City is on Earth-One, and Keyston City is on Earth-Two. What the devil is going on here?"

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)
I like to think that this Barry will remember it as New Earth, his memories retroactively changed by each Crisis, just like everyone else---

While on the yet-to-be-seen Earth-1, a Barry is running around, acting just like Barry did before any of the Crisis stuff ever happened.

[phantom1592]

Here's something to chew on:

Barry Allen's life was uniquely tied into the Multiverse. His death in the First Crisis occurred prior to the merging of the five remaining parallel universes into what would become the Post-COIE DC Universe.

Now that Barry is back, which of these scenarios is more likely to occur when he gets a chance to sit down and talk with Jay and Wally:

"Central City and Keystone City are across a river from each other...yeah, that's right. That's how I remember it, sure."

or

"What th'...? Why are Central and Keystone on the same Earth? What Earth is this? Central City is on Earth-One, and Keystone City is on Earth-Two. What the devil is going on here?"

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

I have a feeling that it will be the first one... Although I LOVE the second idea. He should have the same kind of memories as Superboy Prime and E-2 Superman. Unfortunatly they have spent YEARS depowering Barry in post crisis to make Wally look faster, I don't think they're going to backtrack to precrisis status quo.

[Duy]

I have a feeling that it will be the first one... Although I LOVE the second idea. He should have the same kind of memories as Superboy Prime and E-2 Superman. Unfortunatly they have spent YEARS depowering Barry in post crisis to make Wally look faster, I don't think they're going to backtrack to precrisis status quo.
I don't think they depowered Barry so much as make Wally faster. Of course, pre-Crisis Barry was wrought with technical inconsistencies. He could go past lightspeed, but he needed the treadmill to travel time. I think they had to pick one or the other, and they just picked the second.

[StarsAndGarters]

Here's something to chew on:

Barry Allen's life was uniquely tied into the Multiverse. His death in the First Crisis occurred prior to the merging of the five remaining parallel universes into what would become the Post-COIE DC Universe.

Now that Barry is back, which of these scenarios is more likely to occur when he gets a chance to sit down and talk with Jay and Wally:

"Central City and Keystone City are across a river from each other...yeah, that's right. That's how I remember it, sure."

or

"What th'...? Why are Central and Keystone on the same Earth? What Earth is this? Central City is on Earth-One, and Keystone City is on Earth-Two. What the devil is going on here?"

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

There's been so much weird stuff in his life, I wouldn't be surprised if he took it in stride as a mild, pleasant surprise.

[maxschrek]

Can't wait to read Rebith. Thanks dc!

[phantom1592]

I don't think they depowered Barry so much as make Wally faster. Of course, pre-Crisis Barry was wrought with technical inconsistencies. He could go past lightspeed, but he needed the treadmill to travel time. I think they had to pick one or the other, and they just picked the second.

I may not have the full collections or anything, mine were pretty hit and miss (loved Reverse Flash issues :) ), but in the ones I have Barry had the ability to run past light speed EASILY. In fact that was their "theory" on how Time travelers automatically returned to their own time period. As for the treadmill, I've seen him travel without before, but it was a pretty random jump. I guess I always figured if he wanted to hit Dec 12th 4042 he needed the treadmill to be that specific. If he just wanted the decade he could do it himself. He was able to race superman to other planets etc.

But in post crisis with the introduction of speed force.... Light isn't reachable, anyone that comes too close gets pulled into the speed force. Final Crisis may be doing something about that with "death can't catch us or something" But in the silver age Barry was incredibly, unbelievably fast. Undoubtably TOO fast for good storytelling, but regardless they did depower him something fierce in order to make Wally just incredibly fast and still have him be better than barry.

[Kelson]

As for the treadmill, I've seen him travel without before, but it was a pretty random jump. I guess I always figured if he wanted to hit Dec 12th 4042 he needed the treadmill to be that specific. If he just wanted the decade he could do it himself.

Yeah, that was the impression I got too.


But in post crisis with the introduction of speed force.... Light isn't reachable, anyone that comes too close gets pulled into the speed force. Final Crisis may be doing something about that with "death can't catch us or something" But in the silver age Barry was incredibly, unbelievably fast. Undoubtably TOO fast for good storytelling, but regardless they did depower him something fierce in order to make Wally just incredibly fast and still have him be better than barry.

They depowered all the Flashes retroactively, including Jay and Wally. During the Silver Age, Wally could go faster than light, just as Barry could. After Crisis, they retconned the limit to lightspeed (probably to cut back on suspension of disbelief requirements) and dropped Wally to the speed of sound for storytelling purposes. Eventually, Mark Waid got in charge and worked Wally back up to lightspeed, at which point the speed force came in. This was 8 years after Crisis.

Given all that, it would be hard for me to say that they depowered Barry to make Wally look good.

[Buried Alien]

Perhaps the most extreme example of a Flash's speed capacity, however, was Mark Waid's retelling of the COIE # 8 story in the 1989 FLASH ANNUAL # 2. In this story, it was explained that the Anti-Monitor's antimatter cannon was triggered by a tachyon particle...which cannot exist at a velocity less than several hundred times the speed of light. Somehow, Barry managed to catch the tachyon particle before it could trigger the cannon mechanism, but in accelerating to that unprecedented speed, Barry became the lightning bolt that gave himself superspeed years earlier.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

[Darrell D.]

Perhaps the most extreme example of a Flash's speed capacity, however, was Mark Waid's retelling of the COIE # 8 story in the 1989 FLASH ANNUAL # 2. In this story, it was explained that the Anti-Monitor's antimatter cannon was triggered by a tachyon particle...which cannot exist at a velocity less than several hundred times the speed of light. Somehow, Barry managed to catch the tachyon particle before it could trigger the cannon mechanism, but in accelerating to that unprecedented speed, Barry became the lightning bolt that gave himself superspeed years earlier.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

Robert Loren Fleming wrote that, not Waid. With some awesome art by Carmine Infantino and Murphy Anderson.

[Lupek]

From the Toronto DC Nation panel.....

http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=17813


One series Van Sciver will be working on that could be talked about was the upcoming “Flash: Rebirth” series. When a fan asked why they would replace Wally West with Barry Allen when the former was the far more popular and successful version of the character, the artist said, “We have not said that Wally West will not be the Flash.”

[barryallenfan]

the most telling thing that Didio said about the Flash was this

A lot of Wally can’t be explained without Barry, so therefore it was essential, we thought, for Barry to come back. And at that point, we’d undone so much of what ‘Crisis On Infinite Earths’ was " Supergirl was back, the multiverse was back " there was only one last piece to decide upon, and it was Barry. And at that point, it didn’t make sense not to do it.”


The first sentence explains the achille's heel in Wally West. This is the reason I believe the Flash series of the 90's used Barry and why I believe the movie will be about Barry. Geoff and Ethan are not abandoning Wally. He;s even getting his own costume. This could mean better stories for Wally as I believe the last couple of years have been rather lackluster and sales dropping every month. This could be the start of something great for the Flash franchise. At least DC didn't kill Wally off like they did to Barry 23 years ago

[StarsAndGarters]

the most telling thing that Didio said about the Flash was this

A lot of Wally can’t be explained without Barry, so therefore it was essential, we thought, for Barry to come back. And at that point, we’d undone so much of what ‘Crisis On Infinite Earths’ was " Supergirl was back, the multiverse was back " there was only one last piece to decide upon, and it was Barry. And at that point, it didn’t make sense not to do it.”


The first sentence explains the achille's heel in Wally West. This is the reason I believe the Flash series of the 90's used Barry and why I believe the movie will be about Barry. Geoff and Ethan are not abandoning Wally. He;s even getting his own costume. This could mean better stories for Wally as I believe the last couple of years have been rather lackluster and sales dropping every month. This could be the start of something great for the Flash franchise. At least DC didn't kill Wally off like they did to Barry 23 years ago

I think it's about time the two coexisted as Flashes. Wally's his own man now. I think he can handle sharing the title of Fastest Man Alive with Barry.

[Kevinroc]

the most telling thing that Didio said about the Flash was this

A lot of Wally can’t be explained without Barry, so therefore it was essential, we thought, for Barry to come back. And at that point, we’d undone so much of what ‘Crisis On Infinite Earths’ was " Supergirl was back, the multiverse was back " there was only one last piece to decide upon, and it was Barry. And at that point, it didn’t make sense not to do it.”


The first sentence explains the achille's heel in Wally West. This is the reason I believe the Flash series of the 90's used Barry and why I believe the movie will be about Barry. Geoff and Ethan are not abandoning Wally. He;s even getting his own costume. This could mean better stories for Wally as I believe the last couple of years have been rather lackluster and sales dropping every month. This could be the start of something great for the Flash franchise. At least DC didn't kill Wally off like they did to Barry 23 years ago

A lot of people liked Wally because he was the sidekick that fulfilled the promise. Explaining Barry's relation to Wally could be explained in simple terms (it could also be extremely complicated if the writer wasn't very good).

The thing that has people nervous about this is that Wally actually is rather popular and that bringing Barry back could be seen as extremely regressive of the Flash mythos. You don't need to treat Wally has some kind of pretender to the title (hell, to an even lesser extant, Bart wasn't some pretender to the role either). This wasn't a situation like Kyle Rayner or Connor Hawke (or to use more recent examples in the DCU of this kind of thing, Jason Rusch, Ryan Choi or Jaime Reyes). Wally was an established character that had existed for many, many years before he was made into Flash. (And yes, I am aware that DC came very close to just creating a new character to fill in the Flash's shoes after Crisis on Infinite Earths.)

It was talented writers that succeeded in making people like Wally as The Flash. Considering the last time DC tried taking Wally away, it just succeeded in pissing people off (and then they killed off Bart just as people were starting to like him in the role), I can see why DC is doing an about face on this issue. They'd succeeded in turning The Flash into something toxic. So the answer seems to be to bring back everything major about Flash (well, Barry and it has been strongly hinted that Bart is also coming back. No idea what's gonna happen with characters like Max Mercury or Johnny Quick).

(I'm kinda tired right now so forgive me if this comes across as rambling a little.)

[newscott]

Okay, so Barry's coming back.

Straight up, I don't get it. To me, he was a 2d hero from a 2d time. I'm a fan of Wally West, and I think he has become the Flash in popular culture, the younger, but fully capable member of the JLA and the most fun of the big 7. I think Barry's return takes away from Wally's interesting and rich origin as the Flash. So I ask Barry Allen fans to answer me a couple of questions:

Why should I care about Barry Allen?
What is your favorite Barry Allen story from before his death and why?
Why do you want Barry Allen back?

I know there are people here happy about his return, but no one has really explained why they want him around so badly.

[Adamantium_Avatar]

Okay, so Barry's coming back.

Straight up, I don't get it. To me, he was a 2d hero from a 2d time. I'm a fan of Wally West, and I think he has become the Flash in popular culture, the younger, but fully capable member of the JLA and the most fun of the big 7. I think Barry's return takes away from Wally's interesting and rich origin as the Flash. So I ask Barry Allen fans to answer me a couple of questions:

Why should I care about Barry Allen?
What is your favorite Barry Allen story from before his death and why?
Why do you want Barry Allen back?

I know there are people here happy about his return, but no one has really explained why they want him around so badly.

Here here!

[AdamYJ]

In a Silver Age sense, he's pretty much DC's first everyman superhero. He wasn't an alien, monarch or millionaire. He's not even a test pilot or super-genius atomic scientist. He's a police officer. Sure, he's built some way out devices like the Cosmic Treadmill, but he's really just generally a nice guy who wants to help people. And for the era he comes from, that's pretty good. Any other layers need to be added in the Modern Age.

[carabas]

I think I have maybe read one or two stories that had Barry Allen in them, and right now I couldn't care less about him. Not that I care terribly much about Wally either.
But it's Geoff Johns and Van Scryver, so it's bound to be above average at worst.


Why should I care about Barry Allen?
You shouldn't. You don't know him, and there is absolutely no reason at all that you would.
It is Johns's job to make you care, and usually he manages just that. If he does for Barry what he did for Hal Jordan, than by the end of the first arc, Barry Allen could be your next most favourite DC character.

It's up to you if you decide sight unseen that you either want no part of this silver age nostalgia, or that you are willing to give it a chance.



I know there are people here happy about his return, but no one has really explained why they want him around so badly.Nostalgia, which IMO is a very bad reason to want something, but sometimes good stories can come from that.

Although the actual reason why he is back seems to be that Grant Morrison found it thematically appropriate for Final Crisis, so there is that.

[Kelson]

Although the actual reason why he is back seems to be that Grant Morrison found it thematically appropriate for Final Crisis, so there is that.

I don't have the link offhand, but there was an interview a few months ago in which Morrison said that he was originally going to use an alternate-universe Barry, but Geoff Johns and Dan Didio convinced him to just bring the "real" Barry back.

[Pixie_Solanas]

Why should you care about Barry? Because frankly, Wally hasn't been giving much of anything good lately. I think he ran himself into the proverbial story wall by getting hitched and havin' kids. The "Fantastic Four" family aspect just ain't working (um, yesh, let's bring our kids along on death-defying adventures, brilliant idea, Ms. West).

Having Barry back is the proverbial kick in the pants the franchise has needed for quite some time now.

[newscott]

Having Barry back is the proverbial kick in the pants the franchise has needed for quite some time now.

See, that's the reason I hear most, after "Barry's my favorite!". I like this reason not at all. We should bring Barry back from the dead because we do not know what to write for this Wally West character anymore is not a sign that there is something wrong with Wally, but that something is wrong with the creative team.

If making Bart the Flash failed, why will this change work instead?

Seriously, and without sarcasm, I ask.

[carabas]

If making Bart the Flash failed, why will this change work instead?Two reasons:
- because this Flash has a built-in fan base
- because of the talent involved, because let's face it, Bart did start with a particularly lacklustre creative team.

[CBikle]

Barry is just a likable, dependable, silver-age/ early 60's JFK-Camelot style super hero who pretty much always had his crap together.

Personally, I think he worked better as the nice guy superhero who tragically and heroically died young in the line of service and was often referenced by other heroes who knew him and would tell stories of "the early days".

I think it would have been cool if he died at the end of Final Crisis and his only words of dialogue were "Run !".

[kalorama]

Why should you care about Barry? Because frankly, Wally hasn't been giving much of anything good lately. I think he ran himself into the proverbial story wall by getting hitched and havin' kids.


See, that's the reason I hear most, after "Barry's my favorite!". I like this reason not at all. We should bring Barry back from the dead because we do not know what to write for this Wally West character anymore is not a sign that there is something wrong with Wally, but that something is wrong with the creative team.

If making Bart the Flash failed, why will this change work instead?

Seriously, and without sarcasm, I ask.

The irony here is that giving Wally kids and shunting him and the family into limbo at the end of Infinite Crisis was (by all appearances) supposed to be the last we'd see of him, at least for a long while; his happy ending (of sorts). It was supposed to be the next phase of the Flash legacy being passed along, this time to Bart. But when the readers all recoiled in horror at how those two syndicated TV show hacks were butchering the character, DC had to yank Wally back from oblivion to salvage the ship. Problem was, it was such a slapdash decision that it became clear no one had given any advance thought about how to work his new status quo into the larger picture. Now they bring back Barry and Wally, who'd carried the torch quite well for a long time, gets elbowed out of the way.

[barryallenfan]

I think Barry's return takes away from Wally's interesting and rich origin as the Flash. So I ask Barry Allen fans to answer me a couple of questions:
1st what is this interesting and rich origin you're talking about? It seems many Flash fans are dropping the book by a large amount month by month. DC has a problem so enter Barry. Barry fans are coming out of the woodwork, they want this to happen. I want this to happen. I own Wally's complete series through Johns, but I never thought he was a better Flash than Barry. I always wanted Barry back. I hated his death in COIE and I love the fact that he will back and a main figure in the DC universe, written and drawn by a top team. If you don't have a feel for Barry, thats fine. If you don't want to buy his new series because you think it takes away from Wally, thats fine also. I personally will be enjoying this to the MAX. I'm sure with this team it will be a smash success. The best part is there will be a new generation of Barry fans coming up. To them Barry will be there Flash. They will probably be asking the same questions about Wally sometime in the future. You have to understand, and i agree with them, that Geoff and Ethan believe Barry to be the most important hero(except for maybe Superman)in the DC universe. That is why they wanted him back.

[Ian J.N.]

Why should I care about Barry Allen?
You should care, because his return benefits the Flash family and Wally West in particular.

The Flash family benefits because Barry is a central figure--the connecting link between Jay, Wally, Bart, and the Rogues (his predecessor, his successor, his grandson, his enemies). His presence will give the mythos a more cohesive feel.

Wally benefits in the same way Nightwing benefits from Batman, that is, by having a significant, well-established, character-defining relationship on hand. His "interesting and rich origin" is more relevant to the status quo, and less of a continuity artifact. He's not pinned to a character with whom readers have only a passing familiarity.


What is your favorite Barry Allen story from before his death and why?
Don't really have one. It's the concept of the character I like, not the previous execution.


Why do you want Barry Allen back?
Everyman scientist-action hero > corpse.

[Darrell D.]

You should care, because his return benefits the Flash family and Wally West in particular.

The Flash family benefits because Barry is a central figure--the connecting link between Jay, Wally, Bart, and the Rogues (his predecessor, his successor, his grandson, his enemies). His presence will give the mythos a more cohesive feel.

I keep hearing this, and even though Johns claims to like the Wally West character, I think he has a bigger man-crush on Barry (not as big as his Hal crush, but still) and I get the feeling that Wally is going to be gently swept to the side, joining Kyle Rayner on Alex Ross' $#!t list. But, I'll be the first to admit I may be wrong.

[newscott]

1st what is this interesting and rich origin you're talking about? It seems many Flash fans are dropping the book by a large amount month by month. DC has a problem so enter Barry. Barry fans are coming out of the woodwork, they want this to happen. I want this to happen. I own Wally's complete series through Johns, but I never thought he was a better Flash than Barry. I always wanted Barry back. I hated his death in COIE and I love the fact that he will back and a main figure in the DC universe, written and drawn by a top team. If you don't have a feel for Barry, thats fine. If you don't want to buy his new series because you think it takes away from Wally, thats fine also. I personally will be enjoying this to the MAX. I'm sure with this team it will be a smash success. The best part is there will be a new generation of Barry fans coming up. To them Barry will be there Flash. They will probably be asking the same questions about Wally sometime in the future. You have to understand, and i agree with them, that Geoff and Ethan believe Barry to be the most important hero(except for maybe Superman)in the DC universe. That is why they wanted him back.

Well, that still doesn't answer anything. All you've said here is you want him back because he's your favorite.

You know, I'm sure that this Rebirth mini will sell well. I have no doubt at all.

But the reason I'm asking is I want to know why I should care. Because right now I don't, and it seems like everyone who says that they love Barry and can't wait to have him back cannot tell me why anyone else should care.

[Ethan Van Sciver]

Well, that still doesn't answer anything. All you've said here is you want him back because he's your favorite.

You know, I'm sure that this Rebirth mini will sell well. I have no doubt at all.

But the reason I'm asking is I want to know why I should care. Because right now I don't, and it seems like everyone who says that they love Barry and can't wait to have him back cannot tell me why anyone else should care.

If you're unfamiliar with Barry Allen, then you should probably feel nothing more than ambivalent now. He's the Flash that came before Wally, and that's all you need to know to enjoy FLASH:REBIRTH. But we've got a really good comic book coming for you. The scripts are amazing, and I'm drawing my face off and it's all working.

Barry's back, if you care. If you don't, it doesn't matter. We're calling it FLASH:Rebirth for a reason. It's every single Flash.

EVS

[newscott]

You should care, because his return benefits the Flash family and Wally West in particular.

The Flash family benefits because Barry is a central figure--the connecting link between Jay, Wally, Bart, and the Rogues (his predecessor, his successor, his grandson, his enemies). His presence will give the mythos a more cohesive feel.

Wally benefits in the same way Nightwing benefits from Batman, that is, by having a significant, well-established, character-defining relationship on hand. His "interesting and rich origin" is more relevant to the status quo, and less of a continuity artifact. He's not pinned to a character with whom readers have only a passing familiarity.

I think it's a little different that with Nightwing. Wally West is the Flash because Barry Allen died. Nightwing is not Batman. Wally West is unsure of himself because he has to measure himself against Barry's legacy, and fights to live up to it. If Barry is right there, next to him, drinking a glass of water, then who is Wally West?


Everyman scientist-action hero > corpse.

This is the closest thing I've seen to being a solid argument for Barry's return.

I will say this, however. The science had better be dead-on interesting. Forensics is very hard to pull off in a comic-book. Batman is a detective, and they don't really have him sitting in his lab all that often, because it would be boring as all heck. Ray Palmer is a scientist, and his "experiments" are also pretty strange and don't always work.

-

That being said, I have thought of the one story that hasn't been told yet that I would like to read, starring Barry Allen. The Brave and the Bold/Showcase type tale where Alan and Jay, Barry and Hal, and Wally and Kyle save the world. There is good stuff there, I think.

[newscott]

If you're unfamiliar with Barry Allen, then you should probably feel nothing more than ambivalent now. He's the Flash that came before Wally, and that's all you need to know to enjoy FLASH:REBIRTH. But we've got a really good comic book coming for you. The scripts are amazing, and I'm drawing my face off and it's all working.

Barry's back, if you care. If you don't, it doesn't matter. We're calling it FLASH:Rebirth for a reason. It's every single Flash.

EVS

I want to care. I like Flash, I like comics, I like Geoff's writing and I like your art.

I am defensive, yes, of Wally West. I really do like this character.

I don't know anything about Barry Allen, and I don't understand his connection with fans. That sounds attacking, but I would really like someone to sell me on him. On why he's...relevant.

Even in debating this point, it's not meant to dissuade anyone from bringing Barry Allen back, but rather to persuade me to get behind it. It's not about ambivalence, but the opposite, passion. If I didn't care about FLASH, I wouldn't be here, really hoping to be convinced.

That said, I will read Flash: Rebirth. Absolutely. There is no reason not to. I am only asking to understand the passion that Barry fans have.

[Ethan Van Sciver]

I want to care. I like Flash, I like comics, I like Geoff's writing and I like your art.

I am defensive, yes, of Wally West. I really do like this character.

I don't know anything about Barry Allen, and I don't understand his connection with fans. That sounds attacking, but I would really like someone to sell me on him. On why he's...relevant.

Even in debating this point, it's not meant to dissuade anyone from bringing Barry Allen back, but rather to persuade me to get behind it. It's not about ambivalence, but the opposite, passion. If I didn't care about FLASH, I wouldn't be here, really hoping to be convinced.

That said, I will read Flash: Rebirth. Absolutely. There is no reason not to. I am only asking to understand the passion that Barry fans have.

They miss him. Barry Allen ushered in the Silver Age with Showcase #4. He's a neat character, with his ironic twist of always being late in his personal life as Barry, but having the superspeed secret ID of Flash. He raised Wally. He's a different personality, has some slightly different ideas about crimefighting than Wally West, though.

Anyhow, I miss what "relevance" has to do with a superhero, unless he's called "Anti-Hitler Man". They're all relevant when written for these times.

EVS

[pariah-1972]

Captain America is still relevant and he used to just be a super-hero propaganda machine.

[barryallenfan]

thanks Ethan for coming on the board. I'm first in line to buy this series. I can't remember the last time I was so excited over a comic. Well look at my screen name..maybe thats why

[newscott]

They miss him. Barry Allen ushered in the Silver Age with Showcase #4. He's a neat character, with his ironic twist of always being late in his personal life as Barry, but having the superspeed secret ID of Flash. He raised Wally. He's a different personality, has some slightly different ideas about crimefighting than Wally West, though.

Anyhow, I miss what "relevance" has to do with a superhero, unless he's called "Anti-Hitler Man". They're all relevant when written for these times.

EVS

I mean to say "Why is Barry's return important to the DCU, as a fan?" when I asked about relevance. I do not need my comics to be reflections of the real world.

Also, it's not as if I have no exposure to Barry Allen. When I was young, I inherited my uncle's old comics, so I have read 60's and 70's Flash comics. I've also read plenty of flashback tales about Barry. But my impression of the character, limited yes, has mostly been "He's quaint."

And being a fan of the Flash, and the Flash I've read, and enjoyed the most in Wally West, I am...concerned. Not that he will be marginalized, but that he, as a character, will become rudderless. That, as much as "Super-Girl is Superman's cousin", "Wally West is trying to honour Barry's legacy" at the core of things.

[Ethan Van Sciver]

I mean to say "Why is Barry's return important to the DCU, as a fan?" when I asked about relevance. I do not need my comics to be reflections of the real world.

Also, it's not as if I have no exposure to Barry Allen. When I was young, I inherited my uncle's old comics, so I have read 60's and 70's Flash comics. I've also read plenty of flashback tales about Barry. But my impression of the character, limited yes, has mostly been "He's quaint."

And being a fan of the Flash, and the Flash I've read, and enjoyed the most in Wally West, I am...concerned. Not that he will be marginalized, but that he, as a character, will become rudderless. That, as much as "Super-Girl is Superman's cousin", "Wally West is trying to honour Barry's legacy" at the core of things.


Was the absence of Barry the only thing that gave Wally a rudder?

[newscott]

Was the absence of Barry the only thing that gave Wally a rudder?

Interesting.

No, there are of course other engines at work.

Wally West has been around for a long time, and has become a fixture in his world.

But if I were to boil down Wally to the thinnest level, they can mostly be viewed as tied to the Flash legacy.

The (Wally West) Flash is:
The fastest man alive
The young JLAer
Trying to live up to the mantle of his mentor
The Teen Titan all grown up

As a fan, I think it's not beyond the pale to be concerned about Wally's future with Barry around. Not to say that he will disappear, but that the beats that make up a Wally West story will be weaker. Faded. If Barry Allen is The Flash, JLAer, Hal's pal, the Fastest Man alive, CSI and running late for his date with Iris, then who is Wally in that world?

That is why I would like to learn to like Barry Allen.

[StarsAndGarters]

Why should you care about Barry? Because frankly, Wally hasn't been giving much of anything good lately. I think he ran himself into the proverbial story wall by getting hitched and havin' kids. The "Fantastic Four" family aspect just ain't working (um, yesh, let's bring our kids along on death-defying adventures, brilliant idea, Ms. West).

Having Barry back is the proverbial kick in the pants the franchise has needed for quite some time now.

That is absolutely true, IMO. I love Wally, but the book isn't really very exciting right now, and the Flash really should be exciting in every way possible.


Barry's back, if you care. If you don't, it doesn't matter. We're calling it FLASH:Rebirth for a reason. It's every single Flash.

EVS

Woo! That's what I've been looking forward to the most. The Flash legacy and family is a huge part of what I love about the book when it's good. The only part that comes close to that to me is the Rogues, and Geoff is working on righting that already.

I can't wait to see the book, Ethan!

[Duy]

I've said it before, but I think Wally's pretty much at the point now where Barry was when his title ended. Living happily. As such, his story potential is limited. Honestly, also, having kids and being happily married - and I hate to say it - kind of ages Wally past the point where he's really worked for the past two years. So, now, having been gone a long while, Barry's back to having a LOT of story potential, where, 20 years ago, he barely had any. Eventually, it'll cycle right back to Wally.

I know Barry was kinda bland, personality-wise, from the Silver Age stories, but wasn't everyone, really? These days, you read a flashback story or time travel story involving Barry, and really, his personality and Wally's are similar enough for it not to really matter who the main Flash is.

I still don't think Wally should have his costume changed, though. It's different enough - see the Return of Barry Allen, for example. Wally's is sleeker-looking, has a different belt, no wings on the boots, and is darker. Give him back the Batman eyes and the distinction is set, no matter which angle you look at him from.

[Buried Alien]

I think that Barry Allen's return will be good for the development of Wally West as a character as well. After twenty-three long years, Wally will be liberated from having to bear the heavy legacy of Barry. Wally has done well, but it's time that his character was allowed to grow beyond honoring Barry's legacy and *truly* become his own man (which will not really happen as long as Wally must shoulder Barry's legacy).

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

[Ironman2978]

what about bart I'm glad he might appear in the new miniseries

[Kissyboots]

My LCS owner says that he heard a rumor that the big reveal in Flash #13 is going to be that...

You ready for this?

POSSIBLE SPOILERS IF THIS IS TRUE BUT IT MIGHT NOT BE SO USE YOUR OWN DESCRETION

Bart is Barry. Now, Bart's history is kind of convoluted and I'm no expert on it, but the idea is that something happened to Barry that catapulted him into the future and de-aged him and then aged him again at a rapid rate. Bart Allen is Barry Allen.


Does that sound like it could work to you guys? Probable? Improbable?


About ten years ago I was tar and feathered, virtually of course, for suggesting Bart was Max Mercury. I think Bart will become Impulse again and join the LSH, Barry will become the Flash and Wally will become something new.

[Superboy-Prime]

Bart is Barry? that doesn't even make sense, even for a comic So I call BS.

[StarsAndGarters]

Bart is Barry? that doesn't even make sense, even for a comic So I call BS.

Yeah, that would mess up a lot of things. Namely, Barry would be his own grandson.

[Buried Alien]

The "Bart is Barry" rumor reminds me of a prank that was played here at the CBR Forums way back in the early days of CBR a dozen years ago. One of our veteran members, Joe Grendel, and a few others started up a rumor that the then-dead Hal Jordan (who had recently died in FINAL NIGHT, but had not yet become the Spectre) would be revealed as Gog in THE KINGDOM. Grendel and Co. even invented a fictitious publication, POWER magazine, to bolster their gag.

In the early days of the Web, people were probably less skeptical about what they read because so many people fell for the trick hook, line, and sinker. A huge thread (and subsequent flame war) started over the "Hal is Gog" rumor, with people scrambling to find the nonexistent POWER magazine.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

[Lupek]

Hey Flash fans.......... from Rich Johnstons Lying In The Gutters (http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=17964)

[StarsAndGarters]

Hey Flash fans.......... from Rich Johnstons Lying In The Gutters (http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=17964)

Sounds good to me. Clear the decks and all, same as they did in between Kyle and Hal.

[newscott]

Barry's back, if you care. If you don't, it doesn't matter. We're calling it FLASH:Rebirth for a reason. It's every single Flash.

EVS

But now there's a story out that Flash will be off the shelves during rebirth...

" It looks like yes, "The Flash" will also disappear, replaced by the previously announced "Flash Rebirth" mini-series, before kicking off again with a new Flash series. With a new Flash."

http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=17964

Woe is he who is a fan of Wally West.

[Darrell D.]

Woe is he who is a fan of Wally West.
I'd like to say that Wally will be a strong figure in the future, but I doubt it. Johns also said he liked Kyle, and he got kicked to the curb pretty damn quick.
I guess the book could sell badly, but that is pretty less than likely. Fans would buy a book with just scribbles on the pages if it was written by Geoff Johns, and then proclaim it to be the greatest thing ever written, and if you disagree, you're just a hater.

[Dagger]

I'd like to say that Wally will be a strong figure in the future, but I doubt it. Johns also said he liked Kyle, and he got kicked to the curb pretty damn quick.
I guess the book could sell badly, but that is pretty less than likely. Fans would buy a book with just scribbles on the pages if it was written by Geoff Johns, and then proclaim it to be the greatest thing ever written, and if you disagree, you're just a hater.
That's not true. He's still featured over in Green Lantern Corps. He's handled pretty well over there, and I enjoy what Johns has done with him. I thought introducing him as the new Parallax was a pretty neat idea. Plus, Johns wrote a really good Wally when he was writing the flash the first time.

Any news yet on when we'll be getting the Flash:Rebirth?? I'm wanting some new Barry stories, stat!

[kalorama]

I think that Barry Allen's return will be good for the development of Wally West as a character as well. After twenty-three long years, Wally will be liberated from having to bear the heavy legacy of Barry. Wally has done well, but it's time that his character was allowed to grow beyond honoring Barry's legacy and *truly* become his own man (which will not really happen as long as Wally must shoulder Barry's legacy).

Sorry, but that sounds like a lot of back door rationalization. I've read most of the Wally West Flash stuff and it's been a long time since he was portrayed as struggling "having to bear the heavy legacy of Barry." He's long, long since grown beyond that to the point where all of Barry's contemporaries treated him as an equal. To them, he was The Flash. Period. He wore the costume and carried the name, but he's been "his own man" for a long time now.

[Ilash]

That's not true. He's still featured over in Green Lantern Corps. He's handled pretty well over there, and I enjoy what Johns has done with him. I thought introducing him as the new Parallax was a pretty neat idea. Plus, Johns wrote a really good Wally when he was writing the flash the first time.


Yeah but Kyle used to be THE Green Lantern. Now he's just one of quite a few co-stars in what is, lets face it, the other Green Lantern comic. He's still written well when he appears but he has faded into the great shadow of Hal Jordan.

I would have a huge problem if this happened to Wally West after, you know, being the Flash for two freakin' decades! And no having him appear as nothing more than a backing character in the Flash or Winnick's apparently horrid Titans book.

I'm inclined to think that the best option would be to have both Flashes having their own books with their own supporting casts but having them tied strongly into one another.

[EZMOHR]

I'm inclined to think that the best option would be to have both Flashes having their own books with their own supporting casts but having them tied strongly into one another.

I would love that too, and it won't happen at all is my guess. Wally West is about to go to comic book limbo, and killed in some second rate maxi-series...not this new one, but one down the road, that will make Barry Allen more, "layered."

I've read Flash since Wally became The Flash. He is my Flash. I don't mind Barry Allen coming back, in fact I think under the right writers, it will be awesome. But, I hate the feeling that Barry Allen is coming back at the sacrafice of a GREAT character in Wally West, and all this DC talk from the head honchos is total smoke and mirrors.

[Ilash]

I would love that too, and it won't happen at all is my guess. Wally West is about to go to comic book limbo, and killed in some second rate maxi-series...not this new one, but one down the road, that will make Barry Allen more, "layered."

I've read Flash since Wally became The Flash. He is my Flash. I don't mind Barry Allen coming back, in fact I think under the right writers, it will be awesome. But, I hate the feeling that Barry Allen is coming back at the sacrafice of a GREAT character in Wally West, and all this DC talk from the head honchos is total smoke and mirrors.

I don't know, I actually do have enough faith in Geoff Johns not to character-assassinate Wally to such a large degree (especially not literally) but I do feel that he is, to some point at least, going to get pushed back as a character.

[EZMOHR]

I don't know, I actually do have enough faith in Geoff Johns not to character-assassinate Wally to such a large degree (especially not literally) but I do feel that he is, to some point at least, going to get pushed back as a character.

If you make Wally West some secondary character with throw away lines, or supporting Barry Allen, now, today in comics, you've character assassinated Wally West.

I have faith in Johns for the most part. His Green Lantern: Rebirth went a long way in trying to make Kyle something. Writers since then have ushered him aside, but Johns I think tried in those first six issues. I almost certainly see the same thing happening once a Flash Rebirth is done for Wally West.

I have faith in Johns...I don't in the head honchos at DC.

[Ilash]

If you make Wally West some secondary character with throw away lines, or supporting Barry Allen, now, today in comics, you've character assassinated Wally West.

I have faith in Johns for the most part. His Green Lantern: Rebirth went a long way in trying to make Kyle something. Writers since then have ushered him aside, but Johns I think tried in those first six issues. I almost certainly see the same thing happening once a Flash Rebirth is done for Wally West.

Yeah, I do agree on both points. I think enough time has passed that it should be interesting to see Barry Allen as an active part of modern comics, with the improved craft in the writing and art that comes with them. But when he does come back, he should be treated as nothing more than an equal to Wally West. Wally has proven, both in his place in the DCU and in the minds of most Flash fans that he has earned the title of "Flash" every bit as much as Barry did. I would love to see a partnership of sorts between them but yeah, Wally West is nobody's side kick.

And as for the second point, Geoff actually still writes a really good Kyle Rayner when he gets his hands on him. It's just that his presence has been toned down a lot in the DCU, thanks largely, I'd guess, to editorial decisions.

[JamesJesse]

I'd put Wally West, Kyle Rayner, Connor Hawke and other redundant heroes (through no fault of their own other merit than erroneous editorial decisions) and put them on the Justice Society and retire Alan Scott and Jay Garrick from regular active duty. The JSA is a legacy team and it makes sense. Plus Geoff writes that team so they'd be handled well.

Bart Allen, I suspect will end up with the Legion.

[Kid Quick Foots]

ok, so i havent been keeping up with Final Crisis, but why on earth did DC decide to bring back yet another dead character? We already have a good Flash with Wally, we dont need another one IMHO.

[Kelson]

The charitable explanation is that the series has simply not connected with fans over the last three years, and they felt that simply bringing on a top-tier creative team would not be enough to convince readers that yes, things had changed. They needed a bigger hook.

The less charitable explanation -- well, I've got a bunch of them depending on how cynical I'm feeling on any given day, and I'll spare you the details since I don't feel like starting a flame war.

[Kelson]

Also, Dan Didio said today (http://www.newsarama.com/comics/100829-Dan-Didio-20-Questions.html) that Flash: Rebirth will start in April.

[Buried Alien]

Also, Dan Didio said today (http://www.newsarama.com/comics/100829-Dan-Didio-20-Questions.html) that Flash: Rebirth will start in April.

Another delay, possibly to offset the delays that have plagued FINAL CRISIS. The original announced delivery date back during Comic-Con in July had been January.

I guess we have no choice but to allow the extra three months, but I sure hope the gang will use those three months well.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

[Raker616]

Boo, i'm sick and tired of DC and their constant delays Flash Rebirth was first scheduled for January now it's April WTF?. Honestly I have about of handfull of comics that I buy a month from DC and it looks like by the end of the year it's gonna be down to 2 or 3, how Dan gets to keep his job after all his screw up it's simply amazing.

[Flash's Lightning]

In that interview towards the end, he said he wanted the DCU focused on Batman RIP or Battle of the Cow or whatever they're calling it, then on Blackest Night the second half of the year.

Apparently Dan is saying that by putting Flash Rebirth out any sooner, it would either a)confuse our poor little minds or b) disrupt the flow of how he wants the DCU to feel.

[Kelson]

In that interview towards the end, he said he wanted the DCU focused on Batman RIP or Battle of the Cow or whatever they're calling it, then on Blackest Night the second half of the year.

Apparently Dan is saying that by putting Flash Rebirth out any sooner, it would either a)confuse our poor little minds or b) disrupt the flow of how he wants the DCU to feel.

or (c) he wants to be able to promote the heck out of both events, but only has so much room for house ads in a given month?

(Wait, how did I end up being the one giving DC the benefit of the doubt?)

[Flash's Lightning]

or (c) he wants to be able to promote the heck out of both events, but only has so much room for house ads in a given month?

(Wait, how did I end up being the one giving DC the benefit of the doubt?)

You know what's really funny is I accidentally said "cow" instead of "cowl". Especially since I have a chicken as an avatar. Wow. If I'd realized it, I'd have made it even more funny somehow.

But to the matter at hand... Are you sure he can't promote both? You're probably right. I mean, a man in his position has no control at all what goes in the books, I'm sure. :tongue:

Even if he didn't promote it one iota, however, do you really think it won't sell? Barry Allen coming back? It'll do top ten at least, and I'll eat a shoe off of a bum in New York if it doesn't hit the top five best selling books for the month.

[Lupek]

Has Barry's appearence in Final Crisis been touched upon yet in the Flash book? Or are they saving all that for Rebirth?

[AbsurdistEmergence]

That's too bad it was delayed until April, but I think I can wait for a Johns/Van Sciver project. I grew up with Wally West as the Flash, but bringing back Barry doesn't bother me at all. I care more for good stories, no matter who is in the costume.

[theNighteye]

I agree, I grew up with Wally as well but if Barry's story can bring some excitement to the comics im reading then i'm all for it. I like him in Final Crisis and I think he makes it very interesting.

[OzBat!]

When Barry comes back, I want him to really, REALLY overtly recognise just how good Wally really is. This is the guy who defeated Eobard Thawne, protecting the timeline and Barry's reputation. This is the guy who first discovered what the speed force really was and actually returned after being absorbed by it, something no other speedster before him had achieved (Max Mercury and Savitar both had deliberately attemped to do unsuccessfully). This is the guy who was a mainstay of the "Big 7" JLA, and instrumental in more than a few of their biggest victories. Wally West has been a major player for decades, and if all we get is a saccharine "you done good" kind of paternalism from Barry to his former sidekick, I will scream bloody blue murder. DC better acknowledge just what they're putting to one side in order to continue their Silver Age reactivation program.

[OzBat!]

Regarding Wally's costume, after Barry's return:

Who else thinks DC is missing out on a major opportunity to involve the fans in this event? This would have been the PERFECT time to reintroduce the time-honored tradition of inviting fans to submit their own costume designs. Make it more interactive then just relegating Wally to a new costume in a few panels at the end of a mini reinstating Barry Allen, and you might just bring more fans on board.

[Kelson]

Has Barry's appearence in Final Crisis been touched upon yet in the Flash book? Or are they saving all that for Rebirth?

The Flash book, like the rest of DC's line, is currently taking place before Final Crisis. So no, it hasn't been touched on in the monthly yet, and yes, it's being saved for Rebirth.

[IvCNuB4]

Regarding Wally's costume, after Barry's return:

Who else thinks DC is missing out on a major opportunity to involve the fans in this event? This would have been the PERFECT time to reintroduce the time-honored tradition of inviting fans to submit their own costume designs. Make it more interactive then just relegating Wally to a new costume in a few panels at the end of a mini reinstating Barry Allen, and you might just bring more fans on board.

Let me guess. You just happen to have a design in mind ? :biggrin:

[OzBat!]

I wouldn't be averse to taking part... :tongue:

I'm just thinking, DC back in the days of snailmail had design a legionaire competitions, and assorted other examples of wonderful fanbase building stuff like that. For a change this momentous, they've got a groundfloor opportunity to involve a subset of Flash fans who might be put out over Wally's relegation behind Barry. And they're missing it. If the Rebirth series has been pushed back to April, with the last issue however many months after that, they might just squeeze in a month-long contest, with results for the last issue pages.

Anybody from DC listening??

[Kiryu]

When Barry comes back, I want him to really, REALLY overtly recognise just how good Wally really is. This is the guy who defeated Eobard Thawne, protecting the timeline and Barry's reputation. This is the guy who first discovered what the speed force really was and actually returned after being absorbed by it, something no other speedster before him had achieved (Max Mercury and Savitar both had deliberately attemped to do unsuccessfully). This is the guy who was a mainstay of the "Big 7" JLA, and instrumental in more than a few of their biggest victories. Wally West has been a major player for decades, and if all we get is a saccharine "you done good" kind of paternalism from Barry to his former sidekick, I will scream bloody blue murder. DC better acknowledge just what they're putting to one side in order to continue their Silver Age reactivation program.

I literally was just thinking and posting something similar elsewhere. Kudos to you for hitting the nail on the head.

Wally West is the absolute awesome. Barry needs to recognize this.

[Lupek]

EVS hinted about showing a Flash Rebirth sneak peek in his next column over at Newsarama. It's about time....I am jonesing for some Rebirth news.

[Karl O'Neill]

me too, Can't friggin wait for this comic.

by the way what does jonesing mean? I honestly do not know.

[Lupek]

me too, Can't friggin wait for this comic.

by the way what does jonesing mean? I honestly do not know.

It means to hunger for. It's used as a drug reference.

ah..umm...Dont do drugs kids :wink:

[thebhamgunslinger]

I'm looking forward to Rebirth. Johns is really on top of his game right now (Green Lantern delays aside).

[Lupek]

Here's a sneaky sneak peek at Flash: Rebirth #1 (http://www.newsarama.com/comics/120812-Ethan-Time.html)

[Cipranzi]

A corner of a page?!

God what a tease.

[Sean Walsh]

EVS hinted about showing a Flash Rebirth sneak peek in his next column over at Newsarama. It's about time....I am jonesing for some Rebirth news.

Actually, wouldn't you (and the rest of us, really) be....Johnsing for this news? :wink: :tongue:

[sabongero]

Wow! I've been away from the comics world several months. When is this new Flash comic book coming out ? Barry Allen back ? Wow!

[Karl O'Neill]

check this out


http://superpouvoir.com/~marv/DC-Comics/Previews/January_2009/FLSREB_Cv1.jpg

[He who laughs last]

this is a solicit from Newsarama regarding issue # 1

"THE FLASH: REBIRTH #1
Written by Geoff Johns
Art and covers by Ethan Van Sciver
Through the decades, many heroes have taken the mantle of The Flash, but they all ride the lightning that crackles in the wake of the greatest hero the DC Universe has ever known, the man who sacrificed himself to save the Multiverse: Barry Allen!
Following the events of FINAL CRISIS, Barry has beaten death and returned to a fast-paced world that a man out of time wouldn’t recognize. Or is it a world that is only just now catching up? All the running he’s done before was just a warmup for the high-speed race that he and every other Flash must now run, because even though one speedster might have beaten death, another has just turned up dead! From Geoff Johns and Ethan Van Sciver, the visionaries responsible for the blockbuster GREEN LANTERN: REBIRTH and THE SINESTRO CORPS WAR, comes the start of an explosive and jaw-dropping epic that will reintroduce to the modern age the hero who single-handedly birthed the Silver Age of comics! DC history will be made, and the Flash legacy will be redefined!


Any guesses who?

[Kevinroc]

this is a solicit from Newsarama regarding issue # 1

"THE FLASH: REBIRTH #1
Written by Geoff Johns
Art and covers by Ethan Van Sciver
Through the decades, many heroes have taken the mantle of The Flash, but they all ride the lightning that crackles in the wake of the greatest hero the DC Universe has ever known, the man who sacrificed himself to save the Multiverse: Barry Allen!
Following the events of FINAL CRISIS, Barry has beaten death and returned to a fast-paced world that a man out of time wouldn’t recognize. Or is it a world that is only just now catching up? All the running he’s done before was just a warmup for the high-speed race that he and every other Flash must now run, because even though one speedster might have beaten death, another has just turned up dead! From Geoff Johns and Ethan Van Sciver, the visionaries responsible for the blockbuster GREEN LANTERN: REBIRTH and THE SINESTRO CORPS WAR, comes the start of an explosive and jaw-dropping epic that will reintroduce to the modern age the hero who single-handedly birthed the Silver Age of comics! DC history will be made, and the Flash legacy will be redefined!


Any guesses who?

Some people are guessing it's Inertia as he died in Rogues Revenge and that mini ended with the notice that it would be "to be continued in Flash: Rebirth."

[Phil3940]

Barry Allen are back as Flash !

http://img294.imageshack.us/img294/5100/flsrebcv1cvvj9.th.jpg (http://img294.imageshack.us/my.php?image=flsrebcv1cvvj9.jpg)

[StarsAndGarters]

Some people are guessing it's Inertia as he died in Rogues Revenge and that mini ended with the notice that it would be "to be continued in Flash: Rebirth."

I'd forgotten about that. That makes sense, and fits without having to throw anybody else under the bus. I hope that's it.

[Blue Blazes]

really looking forward to this too...

[Karl O'Neill]

Sold!

Looking forward to this comic months now.

[AbsurdistEmergence]

Definitely one of the best writer/artist team in the business. Looking forward to a new beginning for the Flash, both as a character and a book.

[COMIC GEEK]

could have sworn there was another rebirth topic already going strong on here.

but anyhow.. I'm excited as all hell. been waiting for this for over 20 years and I'm looking foward to wally's new costume look

[AdamYJ]

this is a solicit from Newsarama regarding issue # 1

"THE FLASH: REBIRTH #1
Written by Geoff Johns
Art and covers by Ethan Van Sciver
Through the decades, many heroes have taken the mantle of The Flash, but they all ride the lightning that crackles in the wake of the greatest hero the DC Universe has ever known, the man who sacrificed himself to save the Multiverse: Barry Allen!
Following the events of FINAL CRISIS, Barry has beaten death and returned to a fast-paced world that a man out of time wouldn’t recognize. Or is it a world that is only just now catching up? All the running he’s done before was just a warmup for the high-speed race that he and every other Flash must now run, because even though one speedster might have beaten death, another has just turned up dead! From Geoff Johns and Ethan Van Sciver, the visionaries responsible for the blockbuster GREEN LANTERN: REBIRTH and THE SINESTRO CORPS WAR, comes the start of an explosive and jaw-dropping epic that will reintroduce to the modern age the hero who single-handedly birthed the Silver Age of comics! DC history will be made, and the Flash legacy will be redefined!


Any guesses who?

Well, judging from the fact that they're also reprinting the Impulse story "Mercury Falling" as a TPB that month, I'd say it's either Max Mercury or Inertia. With Max, it would be a big deal because most people assumed he was absorbed into the Speed Force when he disappeared. If his dead body showed up, it might mean that something's wrong with the Speed Force.

I'm a little wary of Barry's big return. The thing is that I really like Barry based on what I read in his Showcase Presents books, but I've also kind of filled in the gaps in his personality myself. So, I'm not sure I want to see Johns's interpretation. I mean, what if I don't like it?

[JumpingJupiter]

I totally can't wait for this! As someone who is relatively new to comics, it pleases me to no end that a writer with a solid track record is starting up on a character that I'm interested in! I don't care if it's Barry Allen or if he's been dead or whatever. I'm just wicked stoked about getting good stories about a cool character!

[Golden_Guardian]

I totally can't wait for this! As someone who is relatively new to comics, it pleases me to no end that a writer with a solid track record is starting up on a character that I'm interested in! I don't care if it's Barry Allen or if he's been dead or whatever. I'm just wicked stoked about getting good stories about a cool character!

Which we had with Wally...

[Flash's Lightning]

Which we had with Wally...

Not really. The two brats ruined everything for me.

[JumpingJupiter]

Which we had with Wally...

Yeah, but for a new reader, I get to jump on at the very beginning of a story which is better for me than jumping on in the middle.

[AdamYJ]

Not really. The two brats ruined everything for me.

What's the deal? Do most comic book fans just have a natural dislike of children?

[Flash's Lightning]

What's the deal? Do most comic book fans just have a natural dislike of children?

Wow, where'd you get that from?

I love Teen Titans, Impulse, Robin, the Wolf cubs in Fables, Franklin Richards, etc

I just don't like those kids. They're annoying little plot devices with about as much depth as a sheet of paper.

[AdamYJ]

Wow, where'd you get that from?

I love Teen Titans, Impulse, Robin, the Wolf cubs in Fables, Franklin Richards, etc

I just don't like those kids. They're annoying little plot devices with about as much depth as a sheet of paper.

It seems like when kids appear in the cast of a comic book (actual children, not teens), they're bashed by pretty much everyone. They hate the West kids. They hate Chris Kent. Heck, people have seemingly disliked Franklin Richards for years. And no one ever gives any reason for it that I understand.

The usual weak argument is that they take attention away from the star of the book. This shouldn't really be an issue with the Flash, because he was rarely the only star in his book anyway. Under Johns, it sometimes seemed more like "The Rogues, guest-starring the Flash". Before that, it was more like "Flash Family" with Jay, Jesse, Max and Bart taking up a good deal of the book. When the kids came along, it became "Flash Family" again. Only, this time, they were really his family.

Personally, I like Jai and Iris. I don't understand what people's problem with them is. :confused:

[Duy]

It seems like when kids appear in the cast of a comic book (actual children, not teens), they're bashed by pretty much everyone. They hate the West kids. They hate Chris Kent. Heck, people have seemingly disliked Franklin Richards for years. And no one ever gives any reason for it that I understand.

The usual weak argument is that they take attention away from the star of the book. This shouldn't really be an issue with the Flash, because he was rarely the only star in his book anyway. Under Johns, it sometimes seemed more like "The Rogues, guest-starring the Flash". Before that, it was more like "Flash Family" with Jay, Jesse, Max and Bart taking up a good deal of the book. When the kids came along, it became "Flash Family" again. Only, this time, they were really his family.

Personally, I like Jai and Iris. I don't understand what people's problem with them is. :confused:
Their costumes suck, but beyond that, it just wasn't as well-written as, say, the previous ten years of Flash.

[Joe Rice]

This book couldn't appeal to me less if it actually reached out and stabbed my face.

[AdamYJ]

Their costumes suck, but beyond that, it just wasn't as well-written as, say, the previous ten years of Flash.

Well, you see, I get lost there.

I'm not the sort who can judge things by how well they're written. I have little to no sense of the "objective standard" which supposedly states "this is good, that is bad".

I often like things that lots of other people say are awful. I also hate things that other people say are great. So, I gave up on judging things that way and just decided that it's more important to pay attention to what you enjoy and what you don't enjoy.

Now, I could probably figure it out if I tried and studied the concept really hard. I'm not dumb or anything. I just don't really want to. It can be more satisfying emotionally to view things simply.

[HaroldAllnut]

Personally, I like Jai and Iris. I don't understand what people's problem with them is. :confused:

I hear you, AdamYJ. I'm also fine with Jai and Iris.

The one thing that bugs me is the ending that Alan Burnett gave to the most recent volume of The Flash. Wally simply quit being the Flash. That struck me as completely off for the character. I'm just praying that they don't widow Linda and orphan Jai and Iris to give Barry Allen more of a "bad-ass edge."

[JumpingJupiter]

Now, I could probably figure it out if I tried and studied the concept really hard. I'm not dumb or anything. I just don't really want to. It can be more satisfying emotionally to view things simply.

That's a cool way of doing it.

[Kelson]

The one thing that bugs me is the ending that Alan Burnett gave to the most recent volume of The Flash. Wally simply quit being the Flash. That struck me as completely off for the character.

FWIW, I read that as them taking a family vacation. It was the suitcase that did it.


I'm just praying that they don't widow Linda and orphan Jai and Iris to give Barry Allen more of a "bad-ass edge."

Ditto. Fortunately it sounds like they're keeping Wally around (http://www.newsarama.com/comics/010923-DiDio-20-Answers.html) for a while. Unfortunately it seems to be mainly in the pages of Titans.

[vazel]

I've always thought The Flash looked cool and with Geoff Johns handling this reboot I am eagerly awaiting it.

[Ilash]

FWIW, I read that as them taking a family vacation. It was the suitcase that did it.



Ditto. Fortunately it sounds like they're keeping Wally around (http://www.newsarama.com/comics/010923-DiDio-20-Answers.html) for a while. Unfortunately it seems to be mainly in the pages of Titans.

Oh joy so we get Wally written by the guy who made Teen Titans completely unreadable. Yay?

[barryallenfan]

don't worry Winnick will eventually be replaced and because it's a high profile book someone like Tomasi will probably write it. It sounds like Wally will get major time there and probably will in the new Flash series also. Look around Wally is in everything right now and has more page time than Barry in Final Crisis. Start thinking the glass is half full. I can't wait for Rebirth

[Ilash]

don't worry Winnick will eventually be replaced and because it's a high profile book someone like Tomasi will probably write it. It sounds like Wally will get major time there and probably will in the new Flash series also. Look around Wally is in everything right now and has more page time than Barry in Final Crisis. Start thinking the glass is half full. I can't wait for Rebirth

From what I understand Winnick has been replaced with Sean McKeever, which is not good news to someone who read his Teen Titans abomination. The problem isn't whether Wally's going to around because it seems like he is. The problem is that, based on everything I've heard, he will be playing second-fiddle to Barry Allen, which is a total disservice to a character who has been the Flash for two decades.

That said, I'm cautiously looking forward to Flash: Rebirth because I do like the creative team and they may well pull this off. Geoff is walking a really precarious tightrope here though.

[StarsAndGarters]

Not really. The two brats ruined everything for me.

The kids didn't ruin anything. It's that the book wasn't any fun. Or any good after losing Waid and Acuna.


I hear you, AdamYJ. I'm also fine with Jai and Iris.

The one thing that bugs me is the ending that Alan Burnett gave to the most recent volume of The Flash. Wally simply quit being the Flash. That struck me as completely off for the character. I'm just praying that they don't widow Linda and orphan Jai and Iris to give Barry Allen more of a "bad-ass edge."

So bogus. That arc made so little sense.. Completely pointless.

[barryallenfan]

I guess , different strokes for different folks. I hated everything about the Waid comeback series with Acuna. I hated the whole Flash/incredibles concept . I'm excited about the upcoming Rebirth series. It's going to fantastic and I'm positive it will reestablish Barry to the front ranks of speedsters again

[Darrell D.]

Oh joy so we get Wally written by the guy who made Teen Titans completely unreadable. Yay?
Nice. Just retire Wally now, with some dignity. It's not enough to regulate him to second-stringer status?

[Flash's Lightning]

Nice. Just retire Wally now, with some dignity. It's not enough to regulate him to second-stringer status?

For real. And I swear if someone comes along and says, "Well, you had Wally all this time, we need to have Barry." I will SCREAM.

I don't care if Barry comes back, that's great, I just hate to see Wally made second-place. The only way I'd be happy is if they did a Hal/Kyle thing. Because I don't see Kyle as being second to Hal or vice versa. They're both treated with respect and not powered down or used as a foil to show how powerful the other is.

[barryallenfan]

exactly, Trust in Johns

[OvenBakedScrod]

Let Bart Allen Die I never did like him very much as the flash and plus Barry's faster anyway

[pryde15]

Let Bart Allen Die I never did like him very much as the flash and plus Barry's faster anyway

Bart has been dead... he was resurrected a month ago.