Thoughts on the supposed upcoming "Final Crisis"

[Billage]

As reported in LITG this week,we could be counting down to a Final Crisis in the DCU.

IMO,this is massive overkill.Too many events tied together.

[Cayman]

As reported in LITG this week,we could be counting down to a Final Crisis in the DCU.

IMO,this is massive overkill.Too many events tied together.

I am getting a little burned out on event books as well.

[Infra-Man]

Another earth-shattering, company-wide mini-series/crossover coming off the heels of two weekly year-long titles (52 and Countdown); the previous earth-shattering, company-wide mini-series/crossover (Infinite Crisis); and a retconning, earth-shattering, company-wide mini-series/crossover (Identity Crisis).

Yup, count me as another victim of burnout crisis.

Wonder who they're going to kill off or sexually assault for the nex event.

[DubipR]

Count me in getting tired of all these crossovers, be it company wide or family titles. I collected it with COIE and with Zero Hour, I'm finished.
Can we have like a 10 year period where no titles crossover?

[Super Buddies Forever]

Meh, what's the big deal? We've known for some time that the story isn't over, that Didio's "epic" that began with Identity Crisis would climax with the event that we would reach with Countdown.

Personally, I don't get why fans always feel obligated to be irate over event stories. They bring in money and interest, and it's not like the ones we've seen in the past few years are devoid of substance like the slew of post-Zero Hour crossovers we were subjected to in the mid-'90s (Genesis, anyone?). What's more, I'm loving how the fallout from the last one builds to the next. Identity Crisis led to Infinite, Infinite led into 52, and 52 has set up Countdown/Final Crisis. It feels like a natural, organic universe now where consequences do matter.

[Gottaluvit]

Actually I think I'm going to be using the 'final crisis' as a jumping off point from DC. I've been hovering between sticking with them and giving up for awhile now and that seems like a good point to finish off my collection.

I've grown tired of the teasers and events over the last few years, I'm worn out with trying to guess whats going to happen to fav characters and with other favs being killed off or changed so much they aren't recognisable. I've really given it some thought lately and I know I'm not enjoying the books as much as I used to, everything seems so tempoary and unsettled now and no one can say for sure that their fave will be around in eighteen months time--unless of course its one of the big three.

So time for me to start winding things up, cancelling books on my pull list at the end of good arcs and stuff like that. Once it's no longer fun its time to go I think. I'll finsh off collecting Countdown and whatever it leads to then throw in the towel.

[DubipR]

Actually I think I'm going to be using the 'final crisis' as a jumping off point from DC. I've been hovering between sticking with them and giving up for awhile now and that seems like a good point to finish off my collection.

I've grown tired of the teasers and events over the last few years, I'm worn out with trying to guess whats going to happen to fav characters and with other favs being killed off or changed so much they aren't recognisable. I've really given it some thought lately and I know I'm not enjoying the books as much as I used to, everything seems so tempoary and unsettled now and no one can say for sure that their fave will be around in eighteen months time--unless of course its one of the big three.

So time for me to start winding things up, cancelling books on my pull list at the end of good arcs and stuff like that. Once it's no longer fun its time to go I think. I'll finsh off collecting Countdown and whatever it leads to then throw in the towel.

Amen, brother. Especially your reasoning in the 2nd paragraph. I used to be a constant DC reader, in the range of 25 to 30 plus books per month from them. But those numbers dwindled over the past 8 years...now, 3 DCU titles. The direction Didioseid is steering the books is something I don't like and don't want to read. I'm hanging onto The Spirit and Jonah Hex as they're not screwed around with editorial mandates, and I'm enjoying Pfiefer's Catwoman. The rest...not even worth the bandwith on my computer to download anymore.

I'll stick with Vertigo, as they're actually good reads from DC.

[Gargus]

I knew they were building to something given all this countdown garbage and such and I figured it would be another another "event" but this time I dont care and Im not getting it. At best I will get the core storyline mini itself but I doubt that even.

I got all of 52 and it felt like a waste of money so I skipped countdown and gonna skip whatever this is all also. 52 might not have seemed so bad but DC just seems to throw everything away, especially last year or so. Its like nothing really matters, if that makes sense. They just do these great big stories like crisis stuff (granted I liked identity alot) but ones after it made little sense, had no real impact on anything and were damn confusing. Then they did the whole OYL stuff. And now they have big name charcters with bad ongoing series and they dont really seem concerned about it. Like wonder woman and flash have gone right down the crapper and just awfull on their reboots. Green lantern since his rebirth has bored me and I can barely remember stories I read, sinestro corps only thing that looks interesting.

Marvel is just as bad with big over the top minis lately to. But atleast theirs stay in the universe wide base more or less and actually make sense. But I wish both would just stop them for awhile and go back to making comics without so many events spilling over into everything. Civil war was cool for awhile, but after I re-read the main story 500 times in all the monthlys I got sick of it and now we have intiative to deal with.

[Buried Alien]

My theory (and I've nothing to go on other than a gut feeling) is that after FINAL CRISIS (or whatever it'll officially be called), DC is finally going to bite the bullet (no pun intended) and do what they'd originally planned to do, but didn't quite have the visceral fortitude to do after CRISIS ON INFINITE EARTHS. A true hard reboot. All titles cancelled and rebooted. All previously continuity TRULY wiped from the slate (not the rather half-baked, maybe-it-is, maybe-it-isn't semi-reboot that followed COIE and the other continuity-changing crossovers). That probably means the newly revealed Multiverse of 52 might go by the way side again.

So basically, a Multiverse back to play with for a year, then a FINAL CRISIS to end it all, and a new, truly unified DCU afterwards.

I mean: what ELSE could it be?

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

[Michael P]

My theory (and I've nothing to go on other than a gut feeling) is that after FINAL CRISIS (or whatever it'll officially be called), DC is finally going to bite the bullet (no pun intended) and do what they'd originally planned to do, but didn't quite have the visceral fortitude to do after CRISIS ON INFINITE EARTHS. A true hard reboot. All titles cancelled and rebooted. All previously continuity TRULY wiped from the slate (not the rather half-baked, maybe-it-is, maybe-it-isn't semi-reboot that followed COIE and the other continuity-changing crossovers). That probably means the newly revealed Multiverse of 52 might go by the way side again.

So basically, a Multiverse back to play with for a year, then a FINAL CRISIS to end it all, and a new, truly unified DCU afterwards.

I mean: what ELSE could it be?

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

Another shameless money-grab where a bunch of no-namers bite it and nothing really changes?

Just a hunch.

[Jack Zodiac]

As far as I'm concerned, DC can do whatever the hell they want with their major events, I just won't bother paying attention to all the online hype or the events themselves if they're just not interesting for me, and unless the books I actually enjoy are being affected by the next crossover event, continuity be damned!

If they did a hard reboot of everything, though, that would completely ruin all of the books I'm currently enjoying, and there's a very good chance I could just not read any more. If that's what they intend to do, it could either be really good (attracting all-new readers with an all-new, fresh, unburdened DCU), or really bad (losing the sturdy base of hardcore fans they have right now).

We'll see. Personally, so long as they keep printing The Spirit and All-Star Superman, everything's gravy by me.

[Babylon23]

Well, both Marvel and DC seem to be in crossover frenzy at the moment (see the 100 issues of Civil War for a Marvel example, which has led directly into World War Hulk). People keep buying, so they keep producing them.

Personally, I have no problem with Final Crisis whatsoever. As long as it's a good story, I'll buy it. I enjoyed Identity Crisis, loved Coutdown to IC, the miniseries and Infinite Crisis, and thought that 52 was one of the best series I've read in a long time. While Countdown hasn't blown me away just yet, I've liked the setup enough to continue reading. If Final Crisis is as good as these books, I'll continue reading.

[Hawkman]

I'll definitely follow the core title, but I've never much been one for picking up every last issue in any massive crossover event anyway. If it interests me, I'll grab it, but I'm not such a completist that I absolutely have to have that issue featuring Color Kid just because it has a "Final Crisis" banner at the top. And as others have already said, the stringing along of events as of late only further cements this practice of mine.

As for your theory, Buried Alien: it's certainly intriguing, I'll give you that. However, I honestly don't think DC would have the moxy to go through with it in end, even if it might be in their game plan right now. Too many long term fans -- like Jack, for instance -- would be totally put off at even the mere suggestion, and I don't think enough new readers would be gripped by it enough to pick up the slack.

As for myself, I'm not sure how I would react. Being a fan of a character with as much continuity clout as Hawkman has, I'd be remiss if I said it wasn't tempting. But I think in the end, it would feel more like a cop-out to me rather than a true fix to any of DC's longstanding problems. Personally, I'd rather they just quit messing around, establish some definitive histories already within this new Multiverse of theirs, and start moving forward without looking back.

[lonewolf23k]

They should call it what it really is..

"Final-Crisis-until-our-profits-go-down-enough-that-we-need-a-new-mega-crossover-to-boost-sales-so-we-make-up-a-New-Crisis-to-draw-readers"

[Infra-Man]

My theory (and I've nothing to go on other than a gut feeling) is that after FINAL CRISIS (or whatever it'll officially be called), DC is finally going to bite the bullet (no pun intended) and do what they'd originally planned to do, but didn't quite have the visceral fortitude to do after CRISIS ON INFINITE EARTHS. A true hard reboot. All titles cancelled and rebooted. All previously continuity TRULY wiped from the slate (not the rather half-baked, maybe-it-is, maybe-it-isn't semi-reboot that followed COIE and the other continuity-changing crossovers). That probably means the newly revealed Multiverse of 52 might go by the way side again.

So basically, a Multiverse back to play with for a year, then a FINAL CRISIS to end it all, and a new, truly unified DCU afterwards.

I mean: what ELSE could it be?

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

If that's the case... hmmm... You could be on to something, but it seems a tad silly just to have elements around for a year and then collapse them again. I mean, post-Crisis Earth after Crisis on Infinite Earths, New Earth after Infinite Crisis, multiverse returns out of 52, one year to play with 52 worlds, and a rebooted New Earth after Final Crisis. That's a whole lot of universe switcherooing.

They should call it what it really is..

"Final-Crisis-until-our-profits-go-down-enough-that-we-need-a-new-mega-crossover-to-boost-sales-so-we-make-up-a-New-Crisis-to-draw-readers"

Budget Crisis?

[Billage]

A true hard reboot cleaning the slate with all titles relaunching would be one hell of a bold move on DC's part.

I can't see them doing it though.Wiping out previous continuity would probably offend so many writers who have worked with DC in the past.Then again,who knows,maybe they will do something bold like that in the future.We shall see.

[lightning]

If DC did do the hard reboot following this "Final Crisis", I would be almost tempted to stick around to see how it goes just to reward them for having the brass ones to do it. But I'm equally not a big fan of doing stuff for the simple sake of doing it, so I'm a little torn.

That being said, I sort of like these big cross-overs. I always seem to like the premise, and they start off very strong but always seem to lose something near the end. By way of example, I thought Infinite Crisis started quite well (esp. the reveal at the end of #1), but it lost something by #7. As for the multiverse existing/not exisiting, I actually find the whole "OMG the universe is fucked up!" crises of DC part of its charm. Something about it seems very superhero-like to me.

I sort of wish that they treated these "events" a bit more like season finales on TV - build up to an annual event, but you don't need to make it something fundamentally universe altering like Infinite Crisis or have a hundred tie-ins like Civil War. Something on the scale of Justice or even a beefed up Lightning Saga crossover would be neat.

[Suzanne]

I enjoy big events, but I can understand how tired some of you guys are. I'm interested to see where this is all going, so I'm sticking around :cool: Whatever it is, I hope it's completely different from the other "Crises."

[David Atkins]

They should call it what it really is..

"Final-Crisis-until-our-profits-go-down-enough-that-we-need-a-new-mega-crossover-to-boost-sales-so-we-make-up-a-New-Crisis-to-draw-readers"

Indeed.

"Final" would be a lie if that is what DC actually decided to call it, or promote it as.

[Infra-Man]

That being said, I sort of like these big cross-overs. I always seem to like the premise, and they start off very strong but always seem to lose something near the end. By way of example, I thought Infinite Crisis started quite well (esp. the reveal at the end of #1), but it lost something by #7.

You know, that's actually one of the reasons why I feel burned by these big events: Great opening, poor close. In the case of Infinite Crisis, it did start really well but then something happened from about issue #4 on. The last four issues of the series just didn't seem as focused, well-constructed, well-paced, or as well-planned as the first three issues. Given, this might be due to the multiple artists that were suddenly working on the title as well as the scope of the story, but you're right, it lost something getting to the finale.

[UniqueFrequency]

My theory (and I've nothing to go on other than a gut feeling) is that after FINAL CRISIS (or whatever it'll officially be called), DC is finally going to bite the bullet (no pun intended) and do what they'd originally planned to do, but didn't quite have the visceral fortitude to do after CRISIS ON INFINITE EARTHS. A true hard reboot. All titles cancelled and rebooted. All previously continuity TRULY wiped from the slate (not the rather half-baked, maybe-it-is, maybe-it-isn't semi-reboot that followed COIE and the other continuity-changing crossovers). That probably means the newly revealed Multiverse of 52 might go by the way side again.

So basically, a Multiverse back to play with for a year, then a FINAL CRISIS to end it all, and a new, truly unified DCU afterwards.

I mean: what ELSE could it be?

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

i actually wouldn't mind this. rebooting everything and NO multiverse. something i could buy into.

and i don't mind the idea of Final Crisis. i think everything has been building up pretty nicely since Identity Crisis and no burnout here for me

[The Adventurer]

Me, I want a full reboot. WITH a multiverse, of sorts.

Every DC title doesn't need to take place in the same universe. Infact DC's massive needless shared universe is one of those things that just bugs the hell out of me all the time. I'm not talking about the core JLA and JSA, they make sense in the context of the DCU. Superman and Batman should exist in the same universe. But Captain Marvel should not, the Charlton heroes should not, the Great Disaster characters should not. Space heroes like Adam Strange probably should not. Because how great of a hero can you really be if you live under the shadow of Batman/Superman?

So, reboot from start. Break up some of the character concepts into their own individual universes so they can really stretch their wings. Do that an I'm a happy camper forever.

[Adamantium_Avatar]

I for one say scrap the whole multiverse thing..

Everyone is in the same universe and interacts with each other. Otherwise we will end up with 'rogue' writers messing around between dimensions and we would be back where we were pre-crisis (the first one).

I would be in favour of a total reboot, however, DC would have to back this up with a detailed continuity bible for future writers.

I dont much care whether Superman and Batman founded the Justice leage or not.. What I want is, all writers agreeing that they did or they didnt and that decision being final.

If someone wants to write a story that goes against the continuity bible then that story would be considered 'Elseworlds' and would not be canon.

Dimensionally displaced characters could then either be given a totally new (and official) back story or DC could just say that they came from a alternate universe that now no longer exists... Easy!

I honestly wish that DC would grow some balls and make hard decisions regarding their characters. For example is Superman effectively immortal under a yellow sun or not? Did Joe Chill kill Bruce Wayne's parents or didn't he? Is the Starheart connected to the Guardians of OA or not and is Oa at the centre of the universe or not?

If anyone from DC happens to be out there then I would gladly give you my input for a universal reboot, lol

[Nakomah]

I have been a comic reader for 20 years plus now. There are some who have been reading longer than me and this is simply my opinion. I actually enjoy the big events as long as they are truly big events. If some major change occurs then I see a reson for it other than the bottom dollar. This being said I have to now say that I am very confused with some of the current events going on in the dcverse. There needs to be a clear and concise set of parameters set up and I am sure that we are building up to that between countdown and whatever the major event is. I enjoyed COIE but it was to short when they said okay never mind we really have lots of universes again and now the characters can jump between dimensions and because a super powered being hit the fabric of reality we can change anything we want. I like change in the comic world but not on a whim. Jason Todd returning is the prime example. Is it a neat arc? YES but seemed too random a comback. This is just one example. Multiverses are fun but still need to maintain a logic (Comic logic). There was nothing wrong with Elseworlds titles without having to wrap them into current continuity.
Big events are good if there is true change. Yes Marvel's ending to Civil war was weak to say the least but at least you can say there was a definite change made in the Marvelverse- Good or bad it hads a purpose. same to be said of 52 - change was made. The main difference was change being made with a form of logic and not random. IC had cahnge but should not have given free reign to creators to do anything goes and just blame it on a temper tantrum punch. I have ranted enough now.

[Jolly Mon]

These are strictly my thoughts on the matter, so please take them as such. I am hoping, and believe, that what ever it is leading up to will not be a hard reboot as Buried Alien suggests. That would be the ultimate kick in the crotch to people who have been following this whole chain of events. Identity Crisis challenged your concept of heroes by having them do very bad things for arguably good reasons? Ha, doesn't matter, we rebooted everything! Infinite Crisis picked up threads from COIE, unified some continuity issues, and taught Batman not to be a dick? Sorry, he's back to being a dick, or whatever else we choose to make him, cause we rebooted him and everything else. 52 brings back a limited multiverse and sets loose Booster Gold to explore the new playgrounds? Don't get attached, cause it's all going to go away. Countdown looks for Ray Palmer? So what, it'll be yet another whole new guy once the next crisis is over.

No, I don't think they'll do that. Rather than a new retooling of the just retooled multiverse, maybe it be more of a big revelation about the multiverse. It was mentioned in the Paul Dini interview that certain elements were showing up in strange places, like the Bleed and the Tangent Green Lantern showing up in Ion, odd machinery that has shown up in the Countdown teaser showing up in Hawkgirl, and the like. I think it will all tie together in one big reveal at the end. But I could be wrong.

[Jack]

I hope that DC has the balls to wait another twenty years between Infinite Crisis and... uhh, Crisis on Finite Earths.

[moebius]

From an economic perspective, I doubt a hard reboot would happen, because you're cutting 50 books and replacing them with 10 (I doubt you'll start with an "Ultimate Checkmate" or some such nonsense). Same reason Marvel won't kill the 616 and go all Ultimate...it's not financially advantageous to lose all those books and start over.

The other reason I don't think you'll get a reboot is they just spent a year of our time putting 8 page backups into 52 (and now a "history of the universe" in Countdown). My guess is these are intended to stick.

[Shellhead]

DC has two separate problems, and the combination is creating the real Crisis.

1. Comic sales have dropped by 90% since the 70's.

2. Their timeless icons cannot be allowed to change much, especially Superman and Batman.

This combination is really difficult for DC, and also Marvel. The 10% remaining fans are older than the lost kid fan base. These older readers expect stories that make a certain amount of sense, as well as some character development and some shocking plot twists. But the most popular characters can't change much, or else DC will risk losing too many readers. The less popular characters also suffer from too many changes, as their fanbases become divided and rebellious... look at the problems that DC created by replacing Hal with Kyle and then bringing back Hal again.

When I read that DC had originally planned to kill Nightwing in Infinite Crisis, it became clear that DC's teenage characters are a serious threat to the more timeless icons like Batman. Look at it this way... how old is Bruce Wayne? And how old is Dick Grayson? Seeing Dick mature, going from Robin the Boy Wonder to Nightwing has been one of the great long-term stories in DC comics, but it undermines Batman by suggesting that he is getting old too.

So DC has some hard choices to make, and except for the first time around, they have always flinched from what needed to be done. By "first time", I mean the way that DC re-booted their classic golden age heroes at the start of the silver age. Moving away from the pulp and fantasy elements of the golden age, DC focused on more of a science-fiction angle. The original Green Lantern had a magic wish ring. The new Green Lantern belonged to an intergalactic police force armed with super-technological wish rings. This was a great way to re-boot DC comics, because both the old and new settings still existed, just as separate realities that occasionally crossed over for fun team-ups.

I believe that the reason DC staged the original Crisis was not to eliminate a problematic multiverse, but simply to integrate all of their characters into one wild setting. It worked, at least for a few years, jump-starting a burst of creativity that sustained DC until the early 90's. Zero Hour was the time when DC decided that they needed to kill off or otherwise fix their inconveniently old golden age characters. This included an appalling makeover for Alan Scott, making him look suspiciously similar to Marvel's Quasar character, who was himself a Green Lantern rip-off. Fortunately, Geoff Johns was able to salvage the old guard with his mostly excellent JSA run.

Infinite Crisis brought back the multiverse, which I really appreciate, complete with an apparently classic version of Earth-2. I think that this presents some great story-telling opportunities, but has made a real mess of New Earth. Since DC has been pretty vague in the aftermath of IC, it seems like the current situation is just temporary, and this Countdown series may be building towards a Final Crisis that establishes the new DCU. In the process, Countdown looks like it will tie into lots of other DC titles, in a shameless attempt to get fans to spend heavily again.

I think that this is a very short-sighted solution. They can't mess with Batman and Superman, so they are going to unleash another reality rebooting Crisis to change the world to fit their timeless icons instead. DC cannot keep doing this and expect fans to pay the price with straight faces and open wallets. Either we care about the characters enough that we don't want to see a hard reboot, or we don't care enough to bother with the extra expenses of these recurring Crisis crossovers.

I've already dropped Marvel completely, despite growing up as a hardcore Marvelite. I didn't like most of what they've been doing in recent years. I hated the whole Ultimate line, which was little more than jerk versions of my favorite heroes. New Avengers is a bad joke, and Civil War was an expensive crapfest.

DC was doing better than that, though I was completely disgusted by Identity Crisis, the Nightwing fanfic of Devin Grayson, and the really sloppy storytelling of Infinite Crisis. Although I mostly enjoyed 52, I have decided to skip Countdown and also this "Final Crisis" that they have hinted about. More importantly, I am cutting back on DC comics. The comics that I'm still buying, with the exception of JSA, are short-term (Justice, Y the Last Man) or out-of-continuity (Jonah Hex), or both (All-Star Superman). If DC decides to fix everything with a hard reboot, I just don't think I could care about the new DCU. And if they don't fix everything with a hard reboot, I've lost patience with the current mess.

In hindsight, DC probably should have done something very different from the Crisis back in 1985. They should have re-booted with another Earth, while keeping Earth-1 and Earth-2 and all the rest around. That way, they could have their main product line focus on their standard 20-something iconic versions of Batman and Superman and all the rest, AND also have the old versions on Earth-2 and the middle-aged versions on Earth-1. The permanent deaths could gradually take down the Earth-2 guys, and the other kinds of major changes like marriages and kids could happen with the Earth-1 heroes.

But that opportunity slipped away in '85, in part because DC and especially Marv Wolfman wanted to protect their top-selling book of that time, Teen Titans. Ironically, it always seems to be Teen Titan members getting whacked in the modern crossovers. Whatever DC ends up doing in the Final Crisis, pay attention to how they handle the Teen Titans, both current and former, and that will speak volumes about DC's plans for the future.

[PastePotPete]

RE: FINAL CRISIS
I'll buy it. I've really enjoyed following the "Saga of the DCU" since Identity Crisis. It's been a fun ride and I like how they've given their entire universe a storyline that touches all the titles. Identity Crisis wasn't perfect. Infinite Crisis and 52 weren't perfect. Countdown will likely not be perfect. BUT the throughline through all of these titles has been sound and I've been rewarded as a reader for following it. Lots of great moments from lots of great writers.

RE: BURIED ALLEN'S 'HARD REBOOT' THEORY
I'd be for this if they decided to do it. Don't think it is absolutely necessary but I think it could be really great. I absolutely do not understand readers who claim a hard reboot like this would invalidate their enjoyment of the DC stories that came before. Continuity mavens need to calm themselves. As fans I think we need to let each story stand on its own. Yes, ongoing continuity threads are fun, but some fans want to turn them into dogma. How boring. I enjoy seeing fresh new continuity-free takes on characters just as much as I enjoy nods to established histories.

[Billage]

I still find Identity Crisis a story which stands great on its own.

[glennsim]

Count me in for the hard reboot. But, and I'm probably alone in this, I don't necessarily want to see radical changes in the characters post-reboot. I think it could be used to modernize the settings, and get rid of the baggage, but I think the basics of the characters are all fine. Hopefully they'll keep the basics, and just reboot to provide a cleanup.

[Stanlos]

DC sucked me back into comics with COUNTDOWN TO INFINITE CRISIS. And I am much poorer and angrier for it.

Not going to do it this time. My faith is practically nil in the company right now.

[lawman]

Perspective, people. We already knew that Countdown was, well, counting down to some sort of big event. If that event is to be called "Final Crisis," and if DC is serious about the word "final," then it might be the hard reboot that some have hypothesized. OTOH, it could be something else entirely, no reboot involved. As much as they've been bandying around the term "Great Disaster," though, it's liable to have serious consequences of some sort.

But, honestly, we don't know any details yet. If you're ready to throw in the towel on DC based merely on the general prospect of another "event," then go ahead... but that general prospect isn't really news at this point, so why the thread? I admit I'm feeling a bit of "event fatigue" myself, given that (A) lately things never quite seem to settle down enough to clarify the current status quo (or even a reliable backstory!), and (B) the payoff for most of these stories just doesn't seem to live up to the setup. Nevertheless...

...it seems to me only sensible to reserve judgment about this next "event" until we actually have some clearer idea what it's going to be about. Could be good this time, could be bad, but we just don't have enough information yet. I'm trying to be cautiously optimistic, as I trust Paul Dini's storytelling sense. Not only did he shape the "animated" DCU, but the man was the story editor on the (incredible) first season of Lost, for heaven's sake! (I also trust his apparent sense of reluctance to break the toys he's given to play with, unlike some other "event" writers.)

Give it a few months, and we can all have this conversation again with a lot less guesswork involved, eh?

[Green Lantern wannabe]

Another Crisis??? Where's the Archie Comics forum? At least they don't switch over so often - and they've been stable since the 1950's.

[Jack Zodiac]

I'd love to see an Archie comic make fun of the Crises. "Crisis on Infinite Prom Nights" (!@#$, how many times have those kids gone to the prom) could be about one million Archies all failing to get laid on prom night and end with Archie-Prime getting one million Betty and Veronicas in the sack.

Best selling comic of the year.

[mswood]

See what I would love will never, ever happen.

I would love a hard reboot. But I doubt Buried Allen actually means a hard reboot, in the way I do.

Where basically we start with the equivilant of say Action #1. and slowly build from there.

I would love that.


But on a business model there is absolutely no way in hell that the company could afford to loss 99% of its books (mainstream ones).

But the one thing I disliked about Crisis (the real one).

Is that we rebooted into roughly the same time. So writers and readers really had no idea what had happened to these characters. What stories do we consider real or discard. There wasn't much of a birth, more of a reality change.

[ForEverAncien]

It also shows, the inability of being able to show growth...storywise, character wise, etc, etc.
Me, I want a full reboot. WITH a multiverse, of sorts.

Every DC title doesn't need to take place in the same universe. Infact DC's massive needless shared universe is one of those things that just bugs the hell out of me all the time. I'm not talking about the core JLA and JSA, they make sense in the context of the DCU. Superman and Batman should exist in the same universe. But Captain Marvel should not, the Charlton heroes should not, the Great Disaster characters should not. Space heroes like Adam Strange probably should not. Because how great of a hero can you really be if you live under the shadow of Batman/Superman?

So, reboot from start. Break up some of the character concepts into their own individual universes so they can really stretch their wings. Do that an I'm a happy camper forever.

[ForEverAncien]

Well put...
DC has two separate problems, and the combination is creating the real Crisis.

1. Comic sales have dropped by 90% since the 70's.

2. Their timeless icons cannot be allowed to change much, especially Superman and Batman.

This combination is really difficult for DC, and also Marvel. The 10% remaining fans are older than the lost kid fan base. These older readers expect stories that make a certain amount of sense, as well as some character development and some shocking plot twists. But the most popular characters can't change much, or else DC will risk losing too many readers. The less popular characters also suffer from too many changes, as their fanbases become divided and rebellious... look at the problems that DC created by replacing Hal with Kyle and then bringing back Hal again.

When I read that DC had originally planned to kill Nightwing in Infinite Crisis, it became clear that DC's teenage characters are a serious threat to the more timeless icons like Batman. Look at it this way... how old is Bruce Wayne? And how old is Dick Grayson? Seeing Dick mature, going from Robin the Boy Wonder to Nightwing has been one of the great long-term stories in DC comics, but it undermines Batman by suggesting that he is getting old too.

So DC has some hard choices to make, and except for the first time around, they have always flinched from what needed to be done. By "first time", I mean the way that DC re-booted their classic golden age heroes at the start of the silver age. Moving away from the pulp and fantasy elements of the golden age, DC focused on more of a science-fiction angle. The original Green Lantern had a magic wish ring. The new Green Lantern belonged to an intergalactic police force armed with super-technological wish rings. This was a great way to re-boot DC comics, because both the old and new settings still existed, just as separate realities that occasionally crossed over for fun team-ups.

I believe that the reason DC staged the original Crisis was not to eliminate a problematic multiverse, but simply to integrate all of their characters into one wild setting. It worked, at least for a few years, jump-starting a burst of creativity that sustained DC until the early 90's. Zero Hour was the time when DC decided that they needed to kill off or otherwise fix their inconveniently old golden age characters. This included an appalling makeover for Alan Scott, making him look suspiciously similar to Marvel's Quasar character, who was himself a Green Lantern rip-off. Fortunately, Geoff Johns was able to salvage the old guard with his mostly excellent JSA run.

Infinite Crisis brought back the multiverse, which I really appreciate, complete with an apparently classic version of Earth-2. I think that this presents some great story-telling opportunities, but has made a real mess of New Earth. Since DC has been pretty vague in the aftermath of IC, it seems like the current situation is just temporary, and this Countdown series may be building towards a Final Crisis that establishes the new DCU. In the process, Countdown looks like it will tie into lots of other DC titles, in a shameless attempt to get fans to spend heavily again.

I think that this is a very short-sighted solution. They can't mess with Batman and Superman, so they are going to unleash another reality rebooting Crisis to change the world to fit their timeless icons instead. DC cannot keep doing this and expect fans to pay the price with straight faces and open wallets. Either we care about the characters enough that we don't want to see a hard reboot, or we don't care enough to bother with the extra expenses of these recurring Crisis crossovers.

I've already dropped Marvel completely, despite growing up as a hardcore Marvelite. I didn't like most of what they've been doing in recent years. I hated the whole Ultimate line, which was little more than jerk versions of my favorite heroes. New Avengers is a bad joke, and Civil War was an expensive crapfest.

DC was doing better than that, though I was completely disgusted by Identity Crisis, the Nightwing fanfic of Devin Grayson, and the really sloppy storytelling of Infinite Crisis. Although I mostly enjoyed 52, I have decided to skip Countdown and also this "Final Crisis" that they have hinted about. More importantly, I am cutting back on DC comics. The comics that I'm still buying, with the exception of JSA, are short-term (Justice, Y the Last Man) or out-of-continuity (Jonah Hex), or both (All-Star Superman). If DC decides to fix everything with a hard reboot, I just don't think I could care about the new DCU. And if they don't fix everything with a hard reboot, I've lost patience with the current mess.

In hindsight, DC probably should have done something very different from the Crisis back in 1985. They should have re-booted with another Earth, while keeping Earth-1 and Earth-2 and all the rest around. That way, they could have their main product line focus on their standard 20-something iconic versions of Batman and Superman and all the rest, AND also have the old versions on Earth-2 and the middle-aged versions on Earth-1. The permanent deaths could gradually take down the Earth-2 guys, and the other kinds of major changes like marriages and kids could happen with the Earth-1 heroes.

But that opportunity slipped away in '85, in part because DC and especially Marv Wolfman wanted to protect their top-selling book of that time, Teen Titans. Ironically, it always seems to be Teen Titan members getting whacked in the modern crossovers. Whatever DC ends up doing in the Final Crisis, pay attention to how they handle the Teen Titans, both current and former, and that will speak volumes about DC's plans for the future.

[J. Robb]

You know you're doing a terrible job when a lot of readers are calling for a complete reboot. But really, until DC hires some editors that will actually exert some semblance of editorial control, the mess will continue.

[Jack Zodiac]

I'm telling you guys, as much as we're reaping the benefits of having him as a writer on some high-class books, Grant Morrison is perfect for EIC. He's the Julie Schwartz of the new DCU, and I can't think of anyone else with the vision to make DC greater than it's been in decades.

[Nintendite]

According to LITG, Kurt Busiek will write Final Crisis. Meaning this will either be the fanboy orgasm that kills the comic book as a month-by-month medium OR it will be so incredibly awesome that it will rejuvenate DC for another 5 years. I'm putting my money on the "Fanboy Orgasm" then the "rejuvenation". All of my money. Good thing I don't have any money on me right now.

[buckeye9167]

They should call it what it really is..

"Final-Crisis-until-our-profits-go-down-enough-that-we-need-a-new-mega-crossover-to-boost-sales-so-we-make-up-a-New-Crisis-to-draw-readers"

Two words: Final Straw.

[Buried Alien]

According to LITG, Kurt Busiek will write Final Crisis. Meaning this will either be the fanboy orgasm that kills the comic book as a month-by-month medium OR it will be so incredibly awesome that it will rejuvenate DC for another 5 years. I'm putting my money on the "Fanboy Orgasm" then the "rejuvenation". All of my money. Good thing I don't have any money on me right now.

Some of you guys treat this hobby as if you have no discretionary willpower at all.

Or if you do, you have some inexplicable compulsion to parade it around for all of us to see.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

[Nintendite]

Some of you guys treat this hobby as if you have no discretionary willpower at all.

Or if you do, you have some inexplicable compulsion to parade it around for all of us to see.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

Well, if I take what you just wrote meant what I think It meant...

Then that means I was accurately able to mimic the usual cynicism amongst some people on these boards. I said all of that stuff (well, not the Kurt Busiek rumor in LITG) firmly with tongue in cheek.

[moebius]

According to LITG, Kurt Busiek will write Final Crisis. Meaning this will either be the fanboy orgasm that kills the comic book as a month-by-month medium OR it will be so incredibly awesome that it will rejuvenate DC for another 5 years. I'm putting my money on the "Fanboy Orgasm" then the "rejuvenation". All of my money. Good thing I don't have any money on me right now.

Where would you put "JLA/Avengers?" That was a Fangasm that was also royally awesome.

[Nintendite]

Where would you put "JLA/Avengers?" That was a Fangasm that was also royally awesome.

It was a fangasm that was also royally awesome, just like you said. And again, I was being tongue and cheek when I wrote the original post.

[PastePotPete]

Tongue may have been in cheek, Nintendite, but Buried couldn't tell and niether could I.

The fact is, any time ANY new book is announced, the reaction from a lot of people on these boards is "BOOOOO! WHY?!? HOW DARE THEY?!?" as if DC Comics is the British monarchy and fans are the poor American colonists being taxed into starvation with no representation.

The Kurt Busiek news is good news. Busiek has an incredible track record. I love most of his work. The only question is: will great writing be enough to make this a stellar series? With these big cross-overs, editorial always has a heavy hand in the story and especially its aftermath.

Yes, DC is trying to take your money everyone. Yes, they are attempting to make money. That was also the goal with Watchmen, the Dark Knight Returns and every other series you've ever loved.

[Laminator_X]

i actually wouldn't mind this. rebooting everything and NO multiverse. something i could buy into.


I'll bet your LCS has some Supreme Power trades for sale. :evilsmile

[Cayman]

I like the idea of Kurt Busiek writing Final Crisis because he doesn't seem like he'd be as cavalier about slaughtering tons of potentially worthwhile characters as the previous event teams.

[Rio_de_Janeiro]

like DC 1 million did...writers would decide the degree of involvement their characters would have.

in DC1M I remember some lateral crossovers being really vital for the event while others just took the concept and had fun with it (i remember supergirl and hitman, especially...great reads!)

rio.

[Brandon Hex]

This stuff is great. I keep seeing people gripe and moan about this and that and I even read one guy say he is sick of guessing what is going to happen next to his favorite character. That is just a gripe for the sake of having a gripe and nothing else. Why would you do anything if you always knew the end or didn't have any other guesses than your one original that turned out to be right. Or always played it safe. I mean wtf is gonna happen at the end of Planet Hulk? Who cares! It will all be predictable anyhow and with very little changing. OMG She-hulk slept with Tony Stark and then she found out what he did to Hulk. She went to kick his butt and he having had sex with her days before, was still ready to take her powers away at the slightest hint of her turning against him, just like everybody else in the MU to Tony 'I'm a bad guy even if you don't think so' Stark. And we don't even need to mention that She-Hulk and Stargod(Man-wolf) had been engaged weeks prior. The fact people are still defending him as a good guy is very typical of today's society and what my next paragraph starts with.

So you have Marvel's tabloid storylines or DC's off the wall, you didn't expect that, maybe you did and aren't you happy now storylines that cost one or two character their life or likability while building dozens of others into something way more special than before. Chances are it really only BOOSTS them like it did for GOLD. I have always liked/disliked Booster Gold. It was more my liking him based on Blue Bettle, Max Lord & Justice League America and disliking him for all the other reasons. Well, Blue and Lord are going. The Justice League I love will never ever be back and I couldn't be happier with how it all went down. I read for that, not for what I already know and totally expect. I'm even waiting Boosters new book. Jason Todd?!?! I mean how the F did he get interesting? We voted to kill him off cause he sucked so bad. Black Adam kills millions but will still make top 10 favorite lists after not even making top bottom lists years ago. Ralph Dibney? Again here is a character I cared jack about, until Identity Crisis. now he is dead and I wish I had appreciated the character more when he was still around.

I just don't get that from Marvel at all. And then Geoff Johns!!! This guy couldn't even make the Avengers work for Marvel(it worked, just not for Marvel) and does more in a single month for different books and characters in DC than Chris Claremont has done in 25 years with just the mutants. And Marvel is always under fire from one writer to another or from writers who left vowing to never return after they story runs or getting burned on character usage.

Make me DC's b*tch!

Sorry, I just had to vent a little in DC defense after reading that things are getting too carried away, odd and out into left field for some persons to keep reading and collecting. Namely the crossovers and pre-plotted events that they show you in the making for a year. Pretty much sounded like standing still was the prefered course of most against DC's current directions and that to me is the odd thing.

Seriously, Steel getting massive praise and calls for him to not be killed off? In Marvel he'd a been changed 15 times and killed off 5 when writers and artists couldnt do jack with an african american character other then background. Like every black character in the Civil War(which also involved pretty much just white/black characters) and the one black guy who got killed off by Thor. In DC you got it all and then some, 52 some. Still gettting killed off, but at least I am learning a little along the way about other cultures of all fricken things in comics and they aren't purple skinned aliens. Marvel did have a good run with Blade, but he has been cast off at this point and had to be re-worked a few times to get him as faw as he got on his own. Not saying DC is having better luck, just that its not so black/white and I am learning actual cultural facts. Black Panther is getting some attention, but again, nothing I didn't already know.

Whatever they do after this so called Final Crisis... I'll still be right there and that is the only thing stable I want about it, is for me to be there.

[Jack Zodiac]

Yay, blind enthusiasm! I'll stick with just trying not to read and support crap anymore.

[Buried Alien]

Yay, blind enthusiasm! I'll stick with just trying not to read and support crap anymore.

Well, can you do it quietly, then? I fail to see why so many people feel like they need to parade this around like a Congressional Medal of Honor or an Olympic Gold Medal.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

[Citizen V]

Im tired also.Marvel is already doing it,and i cant believe that DC is doing it also.Do comics make so little,that events have to be made to bring in money?When will this end?

[PatchMadripoor]

It would be nice if it all finished in another big DC FanGasm with Marvel (since Marvel is building up to something too) and for a year we had the type of crossover universes back in JLA/Avengers, and we saw the heroes of the 20th century pass on to the heroes of the 21st century, including some fan favorites.

Other than that, I do not know how you could write anything meaningful and significant after the retcons and universe-rebuilding that the various Crisis' have brought to the DC Earth 1 / New Earth universe. I will be burnt out, and so will a lot of long-time readers.

[Jack Zodiac]

Well, can you do it quietly, then? I fail to see why so many people feel like they need to parade this around like a Congressional Medal of Honor or an Olympic Gold Medal.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

I'll pipe down when you make me a sweet ass pin that says "I Don't Read Crap."

[DonC]

Isn't speculation about "Final Crisis" a tad premature? It's almost a year away and there are absolutely no story details out there. You're speculating about a name.

[glennsim]

Do comics make so little,that events have to be made to bring in money?

Yes.

(added to meet minimum length)

[Cayman]

Isn't speculation about "Final Crisis" a tad premature? It's almost a year away and there are absolutely no story details out there. You're speculating about a name.

It's all in good fun.

[projectnrm]

My own personal take: I think the DC Universe NEEDS a multiverse. Why else would the damned thing keep coming back?

My assumptions are that the COUNTDOWN is towards the destruction of the multiverse, and thus the Final Crisis. But this crisis will be prevented by a group of heroes who shouldn't exist (Rayner, Todd, Troy), but for some reason have been brought to New Earth to band together and prevent said crisis from destroying their worlds.

Call it a hunch, based on the fact that DC's staffers are probably still too exhausted from IC to even contemplate trying something on that scale so soon afterwards...I think.

[Shellhead]

Im tired also.Marvel is already doing it,and i cant believe that DC is doing it also.Do comics make so little,that events have to be made to bring in money?When will this end?


I don't know when, but the end of these money-grabbing events will happen one of two ways:

1. DC and Marvel finally discover a way to rebuild the fanbase that was reduced by 90% since the 70's. Most likely, that will require reaching out to kids again, and somehow expanding distribution beyond the specialty shops and back into mainstream locations like grocery stores, convenience stores and more book stores.

or

2. DC and Marvel continue to focus on their dwindling group of adult fans, who gradually get old and die off, leaving a nearly non-existent base of younger fans getting into comics. DC and Marvel go out of business. Laugh and call me paranoid, but Marvel already went bankrupt once, and that wasn't too many years ago.

These big crossovers are really short-term thinking. Soaking the loyal fans for as much money as possible while telling continuity-heavy mega-crossovers creates formidable barriers for potential new fans to overcome, while alienating those fans who try to spend responsibly. Short-term gain for DC or Marvel, long-term loss.

[Brandon Hex]

Yay, blind enthusiasm! I'll stick with just trying not to read and support crap anymore.


LOL!

With the amount of stuff that comes out yearly, monthly, weekly...
If you don't have some Blind Enthusiasm, then yer just boring.

[Brandon Hex]

I'll pipe down when you make me a sweet ass pin that says "I Don't Read Crap."

I take it you don't re-read yer own posts then.


Haw haw :P

[Brandon Hex]

Isn't speculation about "Final Crisis" a tad premature? It's almost a year away and there are absolutely no story details out there. You're speculating about a name.

This is what I like about it. If you have to have the crossovers and it's been 15 years so yes you have to have the crossovers...

what are you waiting on most?

The End of Planet Predicatable
or Countdown to what we don't even quite know yet

If Ironman was going to get nearly killed, then I'd say Planet. But since he still has 2 years left before he fully turns heel and gets what is coming to him from all the MU, I'll wait out Countdown and have no idea why and love it.

[Brandon Hex]

My own personal take: I think the DC Universe NEEDS a multiverse. Why else would the damned thing keep coming back?

My assumptions are that the COUNTDOWN is towards the destruction of the multiverse, and thus the Final Crisis. But this crisis will be prevented by a group of heroes who shouldn't exist (Rayner, Todd, Troy), but for some reason have been brought to New Earth to band together and prevent said crisis from destroying their worlds.

Call it a hunch, based on the fact that DC's staffers are probably still too exhausted from IC to even contemplate trying something on that scale so soon afterwards...I think.


Very nice. It would make... sense. The idea of Todd and Dick both having that and the robin past alone is good enough for me.

I missed one thing, when was Kyle suppose to die but didn't? I'm sure I read it, just forgot.

[Jack Zodiac]

LOL!

With the amount of stuff that comes out yearly, monthly, weekly...
If you don't have some Blind Enthusiasm, then yer just boring.

I have blind enthusiasm... about stuff I'm ninety-nine point nine percent sure isn't crap. You say the names "Darwyn Cooke" or "Jeff Smith" and I'll drive a bus full of nuns off a cliff to get that book. How that for crazy, blind enthusiasm!? In fact, when I heard "yellow light" on Kurt Busiek being the mind behind this next event, I actually got excited about it, but we'll see.

I take it you don't re-read yer own posts then.


Haw haw :P

I'll re-read your face you !@#$!

[Paul Dee]

I have blind enthusiasm... about stuff I'm ninety-nine point nine percent sure isn't crap. You say the names "Darwyn Cooke" or "Jeff Smith" and I'll drive a bus full of nuns off a cliff to get that book. How that for crazy, blind enthusiasm!?


That's not really blind enthusiasm though is it? That, to me, is enthusiasm based on a number of factors which go in the favour of the end product being good. "I think Final Crisis will be great -give it a chance!" is blind enthusiasm as you know nothing whatsoever about it but saying something like "In Nolan We Trust!!!!!111111111 I think The Dark Knight is going to be awesome" you're going to be basing your enthusiasm on the fact that you liked Batman Begins.

[Velvis]

I think it will be the payoff of what Kurt Busiek has been setting up in Superman, what with Arion's predictions and so forth.

[Choppa]

Wasn't one of the goals of IC to get away from the the mega crossovers of the 90's? Didn't Didio even say that himself? Irony?

[NightBirdFlying]

I'd like to see the FC be a character personal crisis, id much rather see a few large scale but still personal to 'a' character events, than a big universe spanning, history altering saga.

I and i think i can speak for most comic fans, we buy whatever books each of us buy for the character, and well more often then not very little 'character' is present in the big events, the only event that i think had any character in was Identity crisis.

Personal stories please and for gods sake keep multi 'a' listers in the JLA and keep superman out of Gotham, in fact the only storie in recent memory in which one hero visited another that seemed to work was Greg Rucka's 'The Hiketeia' (bats and wonder woman).

[Paul Newell]

Wasn't one of the goals of IC to get away from the the mega crossovers of the 90's? Didn't Didio even say that himself? Irony?
No. I've never heard anybody say that before, particularly Dan Didio.

[Michael P]

The problem I have with these big event series is that after a while, they get boring. From Identity Crisis 1 to Infinite Crisis 7, DC was pretty much in perpetual event mode; now, with Countdown, it looks like they're starting up again. Marvel's been in perpetual event mode for a couple years now.

If there's always some big event going on, how big of an event can any of them be?

[Velvis]

No. I've never heard anybody say that before, particularly Dan Didio.

He did. It was in a wordballoon podcast last year. At that time, 52 was being discussed, which was a self-contained story that didn't have an overt impact on the OYL titles going on at the time.

Effectively, from May 2006 to May 2007 you could follow individual DC titles without needing to pay attention to the ongoing event comic.

[Alerex]

I don't know when, but the end of these money-grabbing events will happen one of two ways:

1. DC and Marvel finally discover a way to rebuild the fanbase that was reduced by 90% since the 70's. Most likely, that will require reaching out to kids again, and somehow expanding distribution beyond the specialty shops and back into mainstream locations like grocery stores, convenience stores and more book stores.

or

2. DC and Marvel continue to focus on their dwindling group of adult fans, who gradually get old and die off, leaving a nearly non-existent base of younger fans getting into comics. DC and Marvel go out of business. Laugh and call me paranoid, but Marvel already went bankrupt once, and that wasn't too many years ago.

These big crossovers are really short-term thinking. Soaking the loyal fans for as much money as possible while telling continuity-heavy mega-crossovers creates formidable barriers for potential new fans to overcome, while alienating those fans who try to spend responsibly. Short-term gain for DC or Marvel, long-term loss.

Yes. How many volumes of manga do the book stores sell? And there is no way to get monthly comics in there? Also, maybe it just me and how I got into comics, but F the kids and go for the teens and young adults the 15-25 range. They have money can afford 3 dollar comics and can take PG 13 and R rated stuff. Not that there is anything wrong with light and fluffy but it should not have to be that way all the time.

A DC thing how many hero have Girl or Woman in the name and none of them appeal to girls or Woman, how is that? (There are some but not the majority) So, DC creates a Minx line of comics, not getting them into the superhero ones. One thing is by having Casandra Sandmark, Wonder Girl, cry and mope for over a year DC time, more in real time before she even starts the healing process for Conners death.

Sorry I am drunk posting. Wonder Girl is part of a three part function, Nightwing and the end of 52 are the other parts that have caused me to stop reading DC, the last will be if I do not like the change in Supergirl.

[Paul Newell]

He did. It was in a wordballoon podcast last year. At that time, 52 was being discussed, which was a self-contained story that didn't have an overt impact on the OYL titles going on at the time.

Effectively, from May 2006 to May 2007 you could follow individual DC titles without needing to pay attention to the ongoing event comic.
Wow. Didn't know that. I'm guessing Civil War and its follow-ons really changed that.

[Shellhead]

The problem I have with these big event series is that after a while, they get boring. From Identity Crisis 1 to Infinite Crisis 7, DC was pretty much in perpetual event mode; now, with Countdown, it looks like they're starting up again. Marvel's been in perpetual event mode for a couple years now.

If there's always some big event going on, how big of an event can any of them be?

Both DC and Marvel have already reached the final crisis.

After losing 90% of their customers, they can no longer stay in business by just publishing entertaining comics. They now need to operate in perpetual event mode to force the remaining fans to spend enough money to compensate for all the fans that left.

[Velvis]

The negativity I'm reading here is astounding. I think DC is doing a great job right now, and I've been a fan long enough (35 years) to know the difference.

If crossovers are what sells, that's what they're going to do. End of story. But equally as important, today's crossovers are good. They mean something. They're all part of a meta-story that affects the whole of the DC Universe. I mean seriously, when compared to dreck like Millennium, War of the Gods, Last Laugh, Zero Hour, etc., the current crossovers from Identity Crisis on read like Proust. They're character-based, moving, fun, and engaging. They keep you guessing. Keep you throwing out theories. That's what good fiction is supposed to do.

[Brad Barton]

The negativity I'm reading here is astounding. I think DC is doing a great job right now, and I've been a fan long enough (35 years) to know the difference.

If crossovers are what sells, that's what they're going to do. End of story. But equally as important, today's crossovers are good. They mean something. They're all part of a meta-story that affects the whole of the DC Universe. I mean seriously, when compared to dreck like Millennium, War of the Gods, Last Laugh, Zero Hour, etc., the current crossovers from Identity Crisis on read like Proust. They're character-based, moving, fun, and engaging. They keep you guessing. Keep you throwing out theories. That's what good fiction is supposed to do.

Yes, but you must realize people are always going to complain, and everyone's a critic.

And just the fact that they're on this message board, like you said, throwing out theories and salivating for the next issue is a testament to the quality of the medium right now.

I've always said that 15, 20 years down the road we'll look back on this time (which began about 2001, and will end whenever comics get bad, and tired again, which they will. Everything moves in cycles.) as the "Second-Golden Age of Comics".

[Brandon Hex]

The negativity I'm reading here is astounding. I think DC is doing a great job right now, and I've been a fan long enough (35 years) to know the difference.

I agree. It has been going on a long time and there is no amount of b!tching that will stop it.

The last time I saw this much crying was at the NERDCON when somebody knocked over the R2-D2 soda cooler and ice landed on a stack of Michael Turner cover only comics. ( I mean, if people are paying 20 bucks for an alternate cover that came out that week, then why fuss over spending the same money to explore a few other titles not on your normal pull list. Like them or not, few comicgeeks really take a chance. Buying something you don't normal buy isn't really a big chance to take. Not like yer gonna get married and have kids over the matter. )

And I have never seen anything or anybody so condemmed for trying to make money in a world that only revolves around money. Rip on the strippers you give yer extra money to, not comics that tease you just the same, but eventually deliver.

Marvel did bottom out and DC stays alive with it's long time fan base, but that is not reason why it should be a private club. Anybody can get started. I mean, that stripper still takes yer 5 bucks... and she is somebody else girlfriend.

[PastePotPete]

The problem I have with these big event series is that after a while, they get boring. From Identity Crisis 1 to Infinite Crisis 7, DC was pretty much in perpetual event mode; now, with Countdown, it looks like they're starting up again. Marvel's been in perpetual event mode for a couple years now.

If there's always some big event going on, how big of an event can any of them be?

DC is going to try to make you feel like you're missing out if you don't buy Countdown or 52. Or Final Crisis. That's their job. But you're really not missing anything but the stories in those books. You can still just pick up Batman and enjoy that title on its own. In reality I feel the continuity threads between the big 'events' and the individual titles is minimal.

So why complain? You're not missing out! That's just DC's marketing!

Me? I'm actually excited about a book with Jimmy Olsen as a main character. I'm also really into the Flash rogues. So I'm picking up Countdown.

I'm not getting it because I feel mandated to do so or I feel I'll be missing stories from other books. I don't think that's a real problem.

[Tom]

The negativity I'm reading here is astounding. I think DC is doing a great job right now, and I've been a fan long enough (35 years) to know the difference.

If crossovers are what sells, that's what they're going to do. End of story.

I think the argument could be made that the heavy crossovers of the last few years have had a detrimental effect on DC's sales and market share, which seem to slip further and further (http://pwbeat.publishersweekly.com/blog/2007/06/05/dc-comics-month-to-month-sales-april-2007/) each month, with quite a few of their titles selling less than they were prior to Infinite Crisis.

[Citizen V]

DC is going to try to make you feel like you're missing out if you don't buy Countdown or 52. Or Final Crisis. That's their job. But you're really not missing anything but the stories in those books. You can still just pick up Batman and enjoy that title on its own. In reality I feel the continuity threads between the big 'events' and the individual titles is minimal.

So why complain? You're not missing out! That's just DC's marketing!

True,but to the average comic fan..they might think that by buying these events..they may have something like COIE.Something that could be legendary,and spoken off for years to come and they could say "Yeah,i got every issue of that event".Its basically for value and the possibility of having something big.

[Jack Zodiac]

Yeah! Like Our Worlds at War and Last Laugh... or Heroes Reborn and Age of Apocalypse...

[Paul Newell]

I think the argument could be made that the heavy crossovers of the last few years have had a detrimental effect on DC's sales and market share, which seem to slip further and further (http://pwbeat.publishersweekly.com/blog/2007/06/05/dc-comics-month-to-month-sales-april-2007/) each month, with quite a few of their titles selling less than they were prior to Infinite Crisis.
I'd disagree with that...I think it's more the quality of some of the OYL titles that have affected their performance, as well as a funnelling of some of the fan base to Marvel due to their heavy crossovers of the last year or so and DC's lack of said crossovers. I think Countdown is a reaction in order to try and capture back those that "defected" thanks to Civil War/ The Intiative/Annhilation/Planet Hulk/World War Hulk.

[Michael P]

DC is going to try to make you feel like you're missing out if you don't buy Countdown or 52. Or Final Crisis. That's their job.

Aside from the fact that this is utterly irrelevant to my point: No, their job is to make comics worth reading.

[Paul Newell]

Aside from the fact that this is utterly irrelevant to my point: No, their job is to make comics worth reading.
The obvious aim of any international corporation beholden to shareholders.

[Buried Alien]

No, their job is to make comics worth reading.

The obvious aim of any international corporation beholden to shareholders.

Ideally, you do the first to achieve the second, but it's not an ideal world, so the twain *rarely* meets perfectly in the middle.

That said, the past year has hardly been a financial disaster for DC, and I, at least, have been reasonably happy with the products.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

[Paul Newell]

Ideally, you do the first to achieve the second, but it's not an ideal world, so the twain *rarely* meets perfectly in the middle.
Well that's my point. Their job, as far as they are concerned is making a product that sells, based on what people buy. Comics worth reading isn't the priority. Comics people will buy are....Which at the moment is, apparently big crossover events.

[David O Burcham]

Wasn't it pretty much announced way back when that Identity Crisis was the start of a "Crisis" trilogy?

[Desaad]

I think the argument could be made that the heavy crossovers of the last few years have had a detrimental effect on DC's sales and market share, which seem to slip further and further (http://pwbeat.publishersweekly.com/blog/2007/06/05/dc-comics-month-to-month-sales-april-2007/) each month, with quite a few of their titles selling less than they were prior to Infinite Crisis.

Prior to Infinite Crisis, absolutely. But, of course, those crossovers - Identity Crisis, Countdown (one-shot), the 4 minis that lead to Infinite Crisis, et al -- those were the crossovers, thats when DC was in "Crossover" mode, and thats when their sales were at a peak.

Looking at sales charts further back, DC NEVER came close to Marvel. Back in the 80's, only New Teen Titans ever really cracked top 20. Marvel has ALWAYS dominated DC. Always.

It amazes me that DC is as close as they are right now, and is a testament to the quality of the stories, the marketing and the management.

[The Xenos]

I got a crazy idea. What if Final Crisis.. ends the DC universe as we know it? Everything that's been built in current continuity is gone. Done. Finished. A final end of the story.

Then they restart everything ala the Ultimate Marvel Universe. Though clearly they wouldn't be as experimental. They might not even redo origins and just restore everything to a previous status quo. Erase the past few years or decade and just start everything fresh.

I really don't see what could possibly happen after all this anyway.

Then again, where does this leave the multiverse. Well maybe they'll just destroy or reboot the primary earth or new earth, whatever regular DC continuity has been.

Then again, does DC have the daring, the cajones, to even attempt such a thing? And of course do they have the brains to get it right even if they did?

Well, anyway, that's just a crazy possiblity that hit me.

[mattx110]

haven't they done that twice? they've got the balls for it. but some stories from the last few years are pretty good.

[Choppa]

Even minute changes upset fans, you really think they would do this an alienate everyone?

'Sides, if they did this I'd want a refund for every DC book I bought :evilsmile

[spidervenom]

ya right, how would they fill their tubs of money then huh.

[Brad Barton]

If Final Crisis did this, I would be impressed with DC's guts....alas, we all know they won't.

[Killer Frost]

I think it's unlikey they'll completely destroy it and shift focus to another Earth, but I can see New Earth merging with another earth for their mutual survival. Maybe new Earth-1.

[Spiffy]

I got a crazy idea. What if Final Crisis.. ends the DC universe as we know it? Everything that's been built in current continuity is gone. Done. Finished. A final end of the story.

Then they restart everything ala the Ultimate Marvel Universe. Though clearly they wouldn't be as experimental. They might not even redo origins and just restore everything to a previous status quo. Erase the past few years or decade and just start everything fresh.

I really don't see what could possibly happen after all this anyway.

Then again, where does this leave the multiverse. Well maybe they'll just destroy or reboot the primary earth or new earth, whatever regular DC continuity has been.

Then again, does DC have the daring, the cajones, to even attempt such a thing? And of course do they have the brains to get it right even if they did?

Well, anyway, that's just a crazy possiblity that hit me.
The thing is, even Marvel didn't have the cojones. The Ultimate Universe was not laid out as a replacement, it was a supplement.

DC kind of, sort of already has other universes back in their own "lines" of comics, but its inconsistent. Certainly the All-Star books are in their own corner, but inconsistent because it doesn't really seem like All-Star Bats and All-Star Supes are in the same universe (mostly because I bet Frank Miller doesn't play ball with anyone else).

The "animated DC" books may actually be a better example. I mean Teen Titans and the older Batman and Justice League toons COULD be happening in the same place. Maybe. Assuming this is a reality which was recreated as one of the 52-verses in a similar manner to what went before.

[PastePotPete]

The thing is, even Marvel didn't have the cojones. The Ultimate Universe was not laid out as a replacement, it was a supplement.

DC kind of, sort of already has other universes back in their own "lines" of comics, but its inconsistent. Certainly the All-Star books are in their own corner, but inconsistent because it doesn't really seem like All-Star Bats and All-Star Supes are in the same universe (mostly because I bet Frank Miller doesn't play ball with anyone else).

The "animated DC" books may actually be a better example. I mean Teen Titans and the older Batman and Justice League toons COULD be happening in the same place. Maybe. Assuming this is a reality which was recreated as one of the 52-verses in a similar manner to what went before.

The All-star books were never conceived as a shared universe. They were supposed to be DC's top characters teamed with top creators for out-of-continuity stories. They don't exist in the multiverse. They're just comic books.

Someone may come along later and say All-star Batman is on Earth 41 and this is Earth 29 where All-star Superman takes place, but right now, they're just stories and I'd like it if DC kept it that way. The whole point of this line of books is the unique vision of the creator, which I feel is often hampered by continuity.

I would love it if DC did a full reboot. I think it could be tons of fun. Alas, twill never be. Didio has come right out and said in DC Nation column that the multiverse is back so that they can do lines of books based on other worlds - like a miniseries by Greg Rucka in the Charlton universe or a Mark Waid series set in the Fawcett universe. This idea is only now getting off the ground. I believe the culmination of the Final Crisis will be the launch of some of these types of miniseries.

[Ghost Shark]

I would love it if DC did a full reboot. I think it could be tons of fun. Alas, twill never be. Didio has come right out and said in DC Nation column that the multiverse is back so that they can do lines of books based on other worlds - like a miniseries by Greg Rucka in the Charlton universe or a Mark Waid series set in the Fawcett universe. This idea is only now getting off the ground. I believe the culmination of the Final Crisis will be the launch of some of these types of miniseries.

That's what DC should have done 20 years ago after COIE. Took them long enough to wake up!

[Buried Alien]

We kind of already talked about all this (http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?t=176229&highlight=reboot).

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

[moebius]

I think from a financial standpoint it makes much more sense for DC to attempt a "hard reboot" than Marvel. For those who don't remember, one of the big rumors about X-Men 150 was that it would be the final issue for the 616 Marvel Universe, and from then on the Ultimate Line would be the "main" universe.

This didn't make financial sense, because the Ultimate Lines were already established, and getting rid of the 616 would have meant lost revenue from customers who had been buying both lines.

However, DC doesn't have an Ultimate line. The closest thing is All-Star Superman, which is out of continuity and not an established universe. Additionally, most in-continuity books aren't great sellers, so you're not missing much with one or two months of lost sales...it might even make the comics department more profitable since comics tend to be a loss leader for Time Warner. And the Vertigo and Wildstorm lines would be unaffected, since they largely work in their own continuities.

A strategy where DC has a Final Crisis, ships Superman #1 and Batman #1 the next month, followed by Wonder Woman, Flash, Green Lantern, Aquaman the next month and JLA and JSA the next, with other titles following as necessary, seems very doable. And it would create an unprecedented level of publicity to kill an entire universe, including the two most recognizable comic properties, only to bring them back completely new the next month.

So I think a re-boot of the DC Universe, including a new Bible on how the multiverse does or does not work, as well as a de-aging and updating of all the major properties after a major, bloody Final Crisis, is a real possibility.

[The Batman]

The biggest problem I have with the hard reboot you're suggesting is that I don't want Superman, Batman, Action, Detective . . . . to start over at #1.

I like that Action Comics is at #851. That kind of longevity says something to me.

[elias_A]

I know there was already a thread about this...

But my thoughts: At what point then to start? For example with Batman, at year one? Or when Dick became Robin? Or later?

Biggest problem would be the Titans I think.

Though it would be kinda cool if Batman and Superman rebooted to year one and a Titans team (maybe consisting of Cyborg, Starfire, Beast Boy etc. instead of sidekicks) would be already active, even BEFORE the JLA...

[moebius]

I know there was already a thread about this...

But my thoughts: At what point then to start? For example with Batman, at year one? Or when Dick became Robin? Or later?

Biggest problem would be the Titans I think.

Though it would be kinda cool if Batman and Superman rebooted to year one and a Titans team (maybe consisting of Cyborg, Starfire, Beast Boy etc. instead of sidekicks) would be already active, even BEFORE the JLA...

Depending on what properties you wanted to preserve, a reboot could theoretically happen after Superman and Batman have been active for a few years (thus resetting them by 10 or 12), with the Titans just be forming with Nightwing as the leader. The JLA could also be fairly new as a concept, and the JSA could be heroes that fought in WWII but were lost in time.

That way, you could go back and tell Year One stories (with Batman's heavily influenced by the Nolan trilogy, ITSELF heavily influenced by the original Year One).

Another option is to have multiple Batman books at different points in continuity. That way you can have solo Begins Batman and the adventures of Batman and Robin (Dick Grayson, using the modern costume) before he became Nightwing.

[Pinnacle]

I'm a little concerned that Final Crisis is apparently coming so soon after Infinite Crisis. It kind of defeats the purpose. Anyway, on topic, I don't want to see a major re-boot. I'm still interested in finding about the 51 other universes. And I'm holding to my opinion that Earth-1 is a Silver Age Earth ala New Frontier and that Final Crisis will let us explore these new universes more in-depthly.

[jv2k]

It seems like DC has started too much recently for them to just end everything for the sake of restarting fresh. I wouldn't mind a DC Ultimate Universe but I like earth 52 and would also like to keep it.

[Chase]

If a hard reset happened, who would be dead and who would be alive? Would everyone be alive again?

Hehehe... *strokes imaginary half-monkey half-kitten*

[Super Buddies Forever]

If that happened, then what would be the point of Infinite Crisis? 52? The whole Didio regime has been about slowly shaping the DCU into a "best of all eras" continuity. Final Crisis will be the destination of the last half decade. While I don't doubt that it will have far-reaching implications, I doubt it will erase continuity. It will merely add to the effects of Identity Crisis (which unified the DCU into a more connected place), Infinite Crisis (which altered the past of the mainline universe) and 52 (which brought back the multiverse).

Going by that progression on that chart, maybe it will lead to the creation of something even bigger than the multiverse.

[Kintales]

Yeah, a hard reboot would be pointless. I agree with jv2k that DC has started so much 'soft reboots' from Infinite Crisis to 52 to the multiverse to shape the DCU recently.
Some readers are already having problems with these soft reboots; just imagine a hard reboot is to happen again so soon after readers have adjusted to these soft reboots. Everyone would think of throwing in the towel.

Hmmm...maybe Final Crisis is where the Anti-Monitor finally cease to exist? :p

[diablo7]

i would love to see a hard reboot. with all characters and supporting characters set back to how they were when they first started...i.e. superman's not married, barry allen's the flash and so on. also there'd be only one superman and batman book like superman man of steel and batman the darknight. action and detective would be come anthology books that would spotlight characters without books: the question, metalmen etc. have some of the old 60's anthologies come back also. they can also bring back infinite earths by having certain characters and teams on those earths( so you could possibly have kyle with a book). as opposed to the ultimate line this reboot would give creators free reign over every character that has been introduced in dc universe vol. 1(which means up to the reboot) to reintroduce or revamp whenever and however they wanted. this reboot could become the second coming of the silverage, and by that stories that give you the sense that anything can happen, sort of like morrison's all-star superman. also fewer titles can make continuity easier to manage. all hail a hard reboot

[projectnrm]

The goal of Infinite Crisis was apparently to get rid of all the alternate earths, but they all came back (with a vengeance) 12 months later.

Half of the OYL titles now have different creative teams from when they kicked off after IC, and several of the titles have been total botch-ups (notably Flash and Wonder Woman).

DC makes a huge deal about the big three reconciling their differences and leading the JLA, but now you mean to tell me that Batman is probably leaving the team in order to lead the Outsiders after about 13 issues in JLA?

Ah well, at least I have Green Lantern. Oh wait, it now turns out that the Sinestro War is apparently just another platform for this Final Crisis crap that DC is trying to make me care about.

I normally don't bitch on forums, but DC Comics is home to some of my fave characters and some of the most beloved figures in American pop culture. You would assume they'd be handled with greater care than this.

Look at the "other guys". While many people aren't a fan of the direction that their titles have taken since Civil War, at least it appears THAT company has some sort of plan in motion for where they're taking things, like it or not. DC just seems akin to chickens running around with their heads cut off.

Whoever's in charge of what's going on at DC should be fired and replaced with someone who's capable of planning more than six or seven MINUTES in advance.

[Buried Alien]

The goal of Infinite Crisis was apparently to get rid of all the alternate earths.

That's a strange assessment of DC's goal with INFINITE CRISIS considering that officially, DC had *no* "alternate Earths" or parallel universes before the publication of the miniseries. COIE had seen to that twenty years earlier. If anything, INFINITE CRISIS was the first step towards reversing COIE.

Look at the "other guys". While many people aren't a fan of the direction that their titles have taken since Civil War, at least it appears THAT company has some sort of plan in motion for where they're taking things, like it or not.

Not. And if the best DC can do is to copy what Marvel does, it's time for DC to get out of the comics business.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

[Jolly Mon]

i would love to see a hard reboot. with all characters and supporting characters set back to how they were when they first started...i.e. superman's not married, barry allen's the flash and so on. also there'd be only one superman and batman book like superman man of steel and batman the darknight. action and detective would be come anthology books that would spotlight characters without books: the question, metalmen etc. have some of the old 60's anthologies come back also. they can also bring back infinite earths by having certain characters and teams on those earths( so you could possibly have kyle with a book). as opposed to the ultimate line this reboot would give creators free reign over every character that has been introduced in dc universe vol. 1(which means up to the reboot) to reintroduce or revamp whenever and however they wanted. this reboot could become the second coming of the silverage, and by that stories that give you the sense that anything can happen, sort of like morrison's all-star superman. also fewer titles can make continuity easier to manage. all hail a hard reboot
All hail Bankruptcy Court, you mean. The reason there is more than one Batman and Superman comic is that they are cash cows. Replace them in Action & Detective with characters without books? Have you considered they don't have books because they have never sold well enough to support one long-term? Bring back anthologies? Have anthologies ever done well since the 40's? And "fewer titles can make continuity easier to manage"? Well, sure, when you're OUT OF BUSINESS you have no continuity to manage. While your suggestions have a certain naive charm, they would kill the company.:eek:

[diablo7]

i don't appreciate the little blue gasping face...lol...

[Chase]

i don't appreciate the little blue gasping face...lol...

It's like he saw Kilowog using his ring for mischievous purposes...

[MWGallaher]

My guess is that the "Final Crisis" will preserve the multiverse, but cut off interdimensional traffic "permanently". The Monitors win; no more crossing over.

[Buried Alien]

My guess is that the "Final Crisis" will preserve the multiverse, but cut off interdimensional traffic "permanently". The Monitors win; no more crossing over.

Hmmm. But what would be the point of having a Multiverse be then?

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

[HectorP]

Hmmm. But what would be the point of having a Multiverse be then?

The chance to do outrageous storylines independent to each other?

And isn't the Source separating the 52 universes? I thought it was hella hard to breach it.

[Buried Alien]

The chance to do outrageous storylines independent to each other?

DC had that before INFINITE CRISIS. It was called ELSEWORLDS.

It'd be a tremendous joke if DC had just put its readers through three years of INFINITE CRISIS, 52, COUNTDOWN, and FINAL CRISIS just to end up exactly back where it was in 2004.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

[HectorP]

DC had that before INFINITE CRISIS. It was called ELSEWORLDS.

It'd be a tremendous joke if DC had just put its readers through three years of INFINITE CRISIS, 52, COUNTDOWN, and FINAL CRISIS just to end up exactly back where it was in 2004.

Damn, you are right. Even fusing the multiverse is treading old ground.

[Jolly Mon]

i don't appreciate the little blue gasping face...lol...

Actually, the little blue gasping guy just added up what he's spent on "crisises" the past few years....

[moebius]

And "fewer titles can make continuity easier to manage"? Well, sure, when you're OUT OF BUSINESS you have no continuity to manage. While your suggestions have a certain naive charm, they would kill the company.:eek:

DC Comics wouldn't go "out of business" if they cancelled their DC Heroes line.

1. DC Comics is a division of parent corporation Time Warner. Time Warner could eat the costs of a two or three month layoff if they thought they could be more profitable coming out the other side. Comics aren't exactly a key division of TW, though the properties they produce are. The Comics division is therefore already a loss leader.
2. A hard reboot wouldn't affect as many of the properties as you think. Wildstorm is dead or outside the 52 (Ex Machina). Vertigo is largely outside the 52. All-Star Superman and Batman are outside the 52. Many of the miniseries that come out can be treated as outside the 52.

[Jolly Mon]

The Comics division is therefore already a loss leader.


People keep saying that. Can any of you produce documentation that DC comics is losing money?

[Jolly Mon]

DC Comics wouldn't go "out of business" if they cancelled their DC Heroes line.

1. DC Comics is a division of parent corporation Time Warner.

Thank you, but we are all aware of the relationship between Time Warner and DC. And do you really believe that the company (or any company) would survive if 80-90% of their product line was cancelled? Especially when virtually all that would be left would be stuff that no one outside the comics community had heard of (Vertigo, Wildstorm, etc)?

[Froggy]

DC Comics wouldn't go "out of business" if they cancelled their DC Heroes line.

1. DC Comics is a division of parent corporation Time Warner. Time Warner could eat the costs of a two or three month layoff if they thought they could be more profitable coming out the other side. Comics aren't exactly a key division of TW, though the properties they produce are. The Comics division is therefore already a loss leader.
2. A hard reboot wouldn't affect as many of the properties as you think. Wildstorm is dead or outside the 52 (Ex Machina). Vertigo is largely outside the 52. All-Star Superman and Batman are outside the 52. Many of the miniseries that come out can be treated as outside the 52. just THAT title and a few others under a certain imprint WITHIN wildstorm is out of reach, WSU is Earth 50

[HectorP]

just THAT title and a few others under a certain imprint WITHIN wildstorm is out of reach, WSU is Earth 50

Is there info on any Authority crossover with New Earth? It seems inevitable to me.

[The Xenos]

I dunno. I'm with the camp that thinks combinging WildStorm as part of DC's 52 universes was total crap. Then again, this new multiverse sounds like a crap idea to me anyway.

[Pinnacle]

Is there info on any Authority crossover with New Earth? It seems inevitable to me.

I think they need to actually have the Authority main title come out beyond two issues first.

[Froggy]

Is there info on any Authority crossover with New Earth? It seems inevitable to me.

the search for ray palmer goes into the WSU but thats it so faaaaaaaaaaar

[glennsim]

Thank you, but we are all aware of the relationship between Time Warner and DC. And do you really believe that the company (or any company) would survive if 80-90% of their product line was cancelled? Especially when virtually all that would be left would be stuff that no one outside the comics community had heard of (Vertigo, Wildstorm, etc)?

Well, there's an option other than just running 1 or 2 books.

One is to go ahead and come out that first month with your Action, Detective, Batman, Superman, Wonder Woman, Flash, Green Lantern, and Aquaman books, with the stories explaining that the events in the Superman books take place a month or two before the others.

You can also launch one or two mini-series that month outlining some of the past history of the universe you've rebooted, if it's one where the Justice Society was around before the modern age, for example.