Unscrupulous

[Gary_B]

I was just at the Motor City Comic Con and some great artists were there doing free sketches for fans. Someone received a sketch from Stan Sakai and has posted it on E-Bay (http://cgi.ebay.com/stan-sakai-original-art-usagi-yojimbo_W0QQitemZ330122485809QQihZ014QQcategoryZ97 2QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem). Stan always asks for a name to put on his sketches and adds the con location to discourage this kind of selling. In this case the person scribbled over that text to try and make it look like grass! Stan is now considering not doing sketches for fans anymore. It really pisses me off that unscrupulous people like this are spoiling the joy of receiving a sketch that is given in the spirit of generosity from great artists like Stan.

http://i23.ebayimg.com/06/i/000/a0/2e/20cf_1.JPG

[morna]

Ya this is an ongoing problem for Stan and Sergio and other artists. I find it really disgusting that people will try to profit from the generosity of these artists and I find it particularly reprehensible that some goof would actually deface a piece of art in order to sell a piece that was meant to be a gift.

Gaaaaaah!

this same seller has several other free sketches up for sale from this weekend including a beauty from Guy Davis

[HomerJay]

What a douche move.
Frankly, with the advent of Ebay, I'm surprised ANYONE does sketches or signs anything for free these days when you have people that do this.

[parrish]

...and then to draw over the sketch...UUUGGHHH

[founder81]

I got a sketch of Sandman done by .... Neil Gaiman. He did this THEN signed my copy of (The Sandman original Hardcover whose title escapes me at the moment). My jaw just dropped.

Anyone who would use a moment like that to profit is pure scum.

[Winslow]

I should buy it, renig on paying, and send it back to Stan.

But that would be unscrupulous.

[founder81]

I should buy it, renig on paying, and send it back to Stan.

But that would be unscrupulous.


That would be funny

[Winslow]

That would be funny

I know, but he probably requires payment before shipping.

(guessing - I'm not an ebayer)

[Ryan Day]

What a douche move.
Frankly, with the advent of Ebay, I'm surprised ANYONE does sketches or signs anything for free these days when you have people that do this.


I remember someone - Tony Moore, I think? - saying that the reason his sketches were so expensive was because of stuff like this. If a sketch is going to end up going for $100 on eBay, why should artists be doing them for cheap or free?

Yet another example of a few assholes trying to ruin everyone else's fun.

[Spackling Compound]

I always thought it a curious generosity that the artists would do drawings for free for their fans.
It wouldn't bother me in the least if this stopped or at least there was some kind of charge for it.

On the other hand, I sometimes scour ebay for signed editions or art. I most likely can tell what was a convention give away and don't purchase it on principle. Also, I am sort of tickled about the guy who'd want to buy a scribbled out Batgirl done by Adam Hughes in 3 minutes when some other schmuck got it for free. Venturing a guess, it really won't be worth that much in the future anyway...

Nothing against Hughes, just comic original con-art seems to be an iffy investment.

[Michael P]

I have a Jeff Smith Thorn sketch I got at MoCCA a couple years ago. I can't imagine selling it. So yeah, this kind of thing puzzles me.

[jessecuster3]

I have a Jeff Smith Thorn sketch I got at MoCCA a couple years ago. I can't imagine selling it. So yeah, this kind of thing puzzles me.

Plus, you would have to clean the stains off it.

[Matt Algren]

Plus, you would have to clean the stains off it.
Please. At this point it's just a clearcoat finish.

[Deathstroke]

What a scumsucking move.

I am hoping to someday get to meet Stan Sakai and I want to get a sketch.

Damn you bastards screwing it up my chances for that to happen. I hope fire ants crawl inside your penis and breed.

[Spike-X]

In this case the person scribbled over that text to try and make it look like grass!

So it's not enough to try and profit off somebody's generosity, the guy has to go and vandalise the work on top of everything?


Stan is now considering not doing sketches for fans anymore.

Great. Thanks for ruining it for everyone else, anonymous shitbag.

[Chris N]

Stan has every right to be angry over garbage like this.

It would be a shame if his real fans suffered for it, but boy is that annoying.

[DonC]

It used to be that artists did sketches for free. We're talking 20-30 years ago.

Then fans started selling these sketches so artists started charging.

About three or four years ago artists started doing free sketches again. Mostly just quick ones, but they were still free. I can artists charging $5 for the quick ones soon.

[Pól Rua]

Frankly, the best course of action would be to report the seller to Ebay.
He is selling an 'Original Stan Sakai sketch', NOT an 'Original Stan Sakai Sketch Defaced and Marked by the Seller to get rid of the Dedication'.

I'm sure any potential buyer would like to have that information.

[clayholio]

There's always people who hit conventions scouring for free stuff they can resell on eBay. That's fine when it's a promotional item, but it's pretty dickish to ask someone else to do a piece of art specifically for you, and then resell it immediately. It's always too bad when someone takes advantage of an artist's generosity.

[Jade69/Legolaslady]

It reminds me of last year at heroescon, every line we stood in for signings there was this family - Dad, Mom, 2 kids all with piles of comics. Or sometimes just the mom or dad, and the kids would periodically run back and forth between the two lines holding places. Now if I thought this was just a cool family out having a good time i'd have no problem with this, but I just know that jackass took all those comics home and popped them on ebay.

[Gilda Dent]

Part of the problem, in addition to their selling something they got for free, is that the profit motive people clog up the lines, making it more difficult for the fans who actually want the sketch or signature for itself to get what they're there for.

It's similar to ticket brokers making mass buys of tickets to big events to such a degree that it's all but impossible for ordinary fans to get one at the price on the face.

I have a set of P.S. 238 that I ordered from the website a couple of years ago that arrived with each cover sketched by the artist, a set that I treasure and wouldn't think of selling, even if those sketches did increase the value of the comics.

[cactusmaac]

Welcome back Gilda.

[dingo]

As annoying as it is, they are selling something they own.

Perhaps a quick quiz before getting your sketch would be in order, just to prove you are a fan...

[thehod]

As annoying as it is, they are selling something they own.

Perhaps a quick quiz before getting your sketch would be in order, just to prove you are a fan...

Agree.

Its that fans art, if he wants to sell it, that's his perogative. Shitty, but there it is.

Then again, its our perogative not to buy the arseholes item at his overinflated price, so maybe not being able to sell this stuff will make him think twice about breaking the trust of the artist in the first place.

[Gary_B]

As annoying as it is, they are selling something they own.

Perhaps a quick quiz before getting your sketch would be in order, just to prove you are a fan...

Stan, Sergio and Guy all try to discourage the secondary market by dedicating the sketch to a person and writing the con location and date on the page. If the fan worn't provide a name they won't do the sketch. In this case the scumbag defaced the artwork and tried to disguise it. It's not even like they hit hard times later and off-loaded it. They stood in line, smiled and put it on E-Bay the same day.

[twilight]

I certainly hope someone stabs that guy in the eye.

[dingo]

Stan, Sergio and Guy all try to discourage the secondary market by dedicating the sketch to a person and writing the con location and date on the page. If the fan worn't provide a name they won't do the sketch. In this case the scumbag defaced the artwork and tried to disguise it. It's not even like they hit hard times later and off-loaded it. They stood in line, smiled and put it on E-Bay the same day.

Yeah, I know. But once the artist lets it go, he doesn't own it anymore. This guy is free to deface and profit from it.

Sure I think this is annoying, but there is very little that can be done to stop it that hasn't already been done. If it still annoy's Stan, or anyone enough to stop doing sketches then I guess that is the price we pay.

I don't think there should be a law preventing the rightful owner of a piece of art from selling it.

Legal isn't the same as moral though.

[Winslow]

Yeah, I know. But once the artist lets it go, he doesn't own it anymore. This guy is free to deface and profit from it.

Sure I think this is annoying, but there is very little that can be done to stop it that hasn't already been done. If it still annoy's Stan, or anyone enough to stop doing sketches then I guess that is the price we pay.

I don't think there should be a law preventing the rightful owner of a piece of art from selling it.

Legal isn't the same as moral though.

I think you're missing the point. Nobody is saying it should be illegal dingo, it's just a shitty thing to do.

There are a lot of shitty things people do that ruin a good thing.

[dingo]

I think you're missing the point. Nobody is saying it should be illegal dingo, it's just a shitty thing to do.

There are a lot of shitty things people do that ruin a good thing.

Not really missing the point, just saying, "eh, what can be done about it?"

Aside from not buy it that is.



And yes, I know that there is a certain hint of irony to me being bothered enough to post that we shouldn't be bothered because there is nothing that can be done about it.

[Iangould]

Yeah, I know. But once the artist lets it go, he doesn't own it anymore. This guy is free to deface and profit from it.


As Pol says though, unless the seller announces that he's defaced the original drawing and added his own "artwork", he's probably violating ebay's terms and conditions.

[Winslow]

Not really missing the point, just saying, "eh, what can be done about it?"

Aside from not buy it that is.



And yes, I know that there is a certain hint of irony to me being bothered enough to post that we shouldn't be bothered because there is nothing that can be done about it.

Gotcha

Some threads are rant threads. We're not necessarily looking for a solution.

You'll learn this better when you get married someday. ;)

[dingo]

Gotcha

Some threads are rant threads. We're not necessarily looking for a solution.

You'll learn this better when you get married someday. ;)

Been married 2 years.

And Gary Bolt is a man's name, usually it is women who present problems and don't want solutions...

[Winslow]

Been married 2 years.

And Gary Bolt is a man's name, usually it is women who present problems and don't want solutions...

Man, you are one objective dude. :)

Yeah, that was the humor I was going for.

[parrish]

Perhaps a quick quiz before getting your sketch would be in order, just to prove you are a fan...

I think that would be a good idea.

I always try to either buy something from the artist or bring several books for them to sign so they know they won't see it on ebay the next day. Kyle Baker (who is coming to Heroes Con this year, AWESOME) draw me a sketch after I put a big pile of his stuff to sign in front of him.

[twilight]

Perhaps a quick quiz before getting your sketch would be in order, just to prove you are a fan...

I kinda like that idea but it would harm some people.

I really like Stan Sakai's artwork but I know next too nothing about Usagi Yojimbo.
Should I be denied a sketch for not knowing enough?

[parrish]

I kinda like that idea but it would harm some people.

I really like Stan Sakai's artwork but I know next too nothing about Usagi Yojimbo.
Should I be denied a sketch for not knowing enough?

I think if you brought a pile of books to sign it would indicate that you were a fan.

[dingo]

I kinda like that idea but it would harm some people.

I really like Stan Sakai's artwork but I know next too nothing about Usagi Yojimbo.
Should I be denied a sketch for not knowing enough?

Sounds good to me... :p

[Agent Helix]

I think if you brought a pile of books to sign it would indicate that you were a fan.

What about people that show up, see a table with artwork they like that they may never have seen before, and would like to get a sketch?

[twilight]

Sounds good to me... :p

:p

It's a slippery moral slope really.

Are there more people getting sketches and signatures from creators who's work they enjoy than there are people trying to abuse said creators to make a quick buck?

[parrish]

What about people that show up, see a table with artwork they like that they may never have seen before, and would like to get a sketch?

Its all up to the artist, I guess.

It seems like its hard to differentiate the ebayers from the fans. But if someone saw art they liked I think they would be inclined to buy a book or print from them to show that.

[Winslow]

I kinda like that idea but it would harm some people.

I really like Stan Sakai's artwork but I know next too nothing about Usagi Yojimbo.
Should I be denied a sketch for not knowing enough?

Yes, you should be denied for having made poor choices in your comic purchases.

[Agent Helix]

I just think all this talk of requiring people to be "true fans" and to have a "big stack of books to sign" just turns people off and proves that comics are an insular old boys' club, when conventions should be about bringing in new readers and exposing more people to different artists and works.

[dingo]

Yes, you should be denied for having made poor choices in your comic purchases.

Actually, I can confirm that he now has Usagi Yojimbo on his pull list.

[twilight]

Yes, you should be denied for having made poor choices in your comic purchases.

I just started reading it!

I liked #101 and eagerly await the next installment.

[parrish]

I just think all this talk of requiring people to be "true fans" and to have a "big stack of books to sign" just turns people off and proves that comics are an insular old boys' club, when conventions should be about bringing in new readers and exposing more people to different artists and works.

I think so, too. But I think an artist would be more inclined to do a free sketch for someone who he knew was a fan.

[Winslow]

I just think all this talk of requiring people to be "true fans" and to have a "big stack of books to sign" just turns people off and proves that comics are an insular old boys' club, when conventions should be about bringing in new readers and exposing more people to different artists and works.

Yeah, I was being silly.

I don't have any solution to the risk* an artist takes by providing free sketches. If an artist objects that much, they probably should just charge a fee.

I could be wrong, but I think Stan's work is in demand because you can't buy his original art

*risk in the sense that someone will take advantage of their generosity without their consent.


Actually, I can confirm that he now has Usagi Yojimbo on his pull list.

Awesome!


I just started reading it!

I liked #101 and eagerly await the next installment.

The trades are fantastic, you won't be disappointed with the back story.

[DonC]

Did anyone check out this dude's other stuff? He has a Groo sketch that is obviously hiding something at the top. It looks like a thought balloon (probably another dedication). I sent him a question about that. We'll see if he replies.

[K'Nort]

I think if you brought a pile of books to sign it would indicate that you were a fan.

I've seen those folks at SDCC and tend to assume they're most likely to be pure speculators. Especially with all the boarding and mylar.



I was disappointed to attend a Con that included Stuart Immonen and then discovered he just does signatures now. But I did buy his explanatory book and it sums things up pretty darn well.

[Pól Rua]

I have to re-iterate.
Even if you have no problem with the guy selling his own property on Ebay, there IS a definite moral and ethical problem with selling original work which has been defaced and marked by the seller without alerting a potential buyer.
I'm sure the PTB at Ebay would frown upon this sort of thing.

[thehod]

I have to re-iterate.
Even if you have no problem with the guy selling his own property on Ebay, there IS a definite moral and ethical problem with selling original work which has been defaced and marked by the seller without alerting a potential buyer.
I'm sure the PTB at Ebay would frown upon this sort of thing.

Oh absolutely.

As you say, legally he's perfectly entitled to do what he's doing.
Morally and ethically he's a gimpoid.

[Wesley Dodds]

That's a gorgeous Guy Davis Sandman -- shame the seller's a prick.

[founder81]

Looking at the Groo piece. He either didn't include the top part in the picture or he cut the top part off.