Exiles #94 *Spoilers*

[Beast]

And we come to the final issue in the first Exiles storyarc by Chris Claremont. I have to say that other than a few bumps along the way, the storyline was pretty good all around. It was a bit heavily packed, especially with having to restate the mission statement and setting of the Exiles for new readers who are coming onboard. Hopefully the next one is even better. I know I'm definatly Looking forward to what he has coming up leading to Issue #100 and the Crossover with New Excalibur later this year. Bring it on!

We pick up from where we left off last issue, and Reed making his traitorous bargain with Madame Hydra aka Sue Storm. Offering her the Multiverse in exchange for this World/Dimension. However Wolverine who's been sneaking up on Reed invisable thanks to Sue's powers is suddenly slammed against the wall with tremendous force. This begins another fight between Reed and Sue, which also revels Psylocke who was responsible for launching Logan into the wall. Turnabout is fair play as Sue picks up Betsy and slams her full force into a wall.

Sue tosses Betsy to Wolverine to finish off. Reed tries to save her, but is prevented by Sue. However Betsy manages to get the upper hand against Logan, because he assumes her to be easy pray... something her Wolverine would know better than to do. Betsy has the upper hand until Slaymaster arrives, and she freezes and starts to cry. She tries to stop herself, but all she can remember is the last time she saw his face.

Elektra and Valeria meet up with Sabretooth who have tied up both Blink and Spider-Man 2099 so they're no longer a danger. Elektra refers to Valeria as "The Salvation of the World". Heather contacts Creed as the three are talking, telling him that they're almost out of time and she needs to pull them out now. But Morph and Longshot left to go collect Psylocke and arn't back yet. Elektra informs Creed that if he takes his friends now, they'll never be free of what the Hand did to them. Valeria asks Creed to trust them, that her father will fix everything. Creed hugs Blink and breaks off contact with Heather back at the Crystal Palace.

Meanwhile back at Reed Richard's Underground Headquarters, Psylocke is still frozen in fear at Slaymaster. Sue gets annoyed at Slaymaster's compliments directed at Betsy, and orders him to kill her... snapping up a bubble around her head. Reed attacks Sue, but it doesn't matter... as Wolverine pops his claws into Betsy's back. She falls, and Slaymaster is annoyed with Wolverine taking his kill. They start bickering, but Sue orders them to shut up. Sue prepares to kill Reed next, but Morph comes charging in as Juggernaut and decks her. He starts wailing on Slaymaster and Wolverine also, but Longshot's shouts of finding Betsy makes him turn his focus to her. She's alive, but her pulse is fading. Sue recovers and turns on Reed once more.

Sue goes crazy, firing energy bolts as well as using her force bolts. Wolverine goes after Longshot, as Slaymaster turns his attention to Reed's computers. Slaymaster is rather impressed with how well Longshot handles Wolverine, surprising even Sue when a punch to Logan's throat drops him to his knees. Slaymaster moves to Sue's side and whispers something to her, and a moment later she holds up the device Reed created to access the multiverse. She depresses the trigger and there's a massive energy blast.

Back in the Crystal Palace, Heather watches in horror as the reality is destroyed. Heather keeps trying for hours to contact the team, hoping that the systems simply have glitched as they've done before. Heather finally breaks down into tears as the bugs look on, she believes her friends are dead.

But all is not as it seems, time passes and the reality is restored once again. Reed simply shunted it off into a pocket dimension when Sue activated the button. Sabretooth is confused, he knows the world came to an end. He even felt himself die. Valeria tells him that he can thank her dad for pulling off a miracle. Back at Reed's base, Betsy's dieing from her injuries caused by Wolverine. Reed however crows that his plan worked. He starts pulling himself back together the best he can, and tells Morph and Longshot to get Psylocke outside where he can see to her. They have a lot of work to do, and precious little time to do it.

Time passes, and we see that Reed's got Psylocke stabalized and hooked up to I.V.'s. outside Reed explains that the Tallus isn't quite as secure as the Exiles believed. He intercepted the communication from Heather about the reality, and was able to improvise things so that they'd come out on top. Elektra reuinites Valeria with Reed. Sabretooth wants to know why Reed went to all that trouble for a world with only three people left alive on it. Reed reveals that he managed to digitize and store roughly 2 billion of the world's population. And they've being carried in the pan-dimensional space inside the necklace around Valeria's neck.

More time passes, and the work to rebuild the city and the world has begun. Psylocke 's healing is coming along as well, though she's still on crutches. Reed managed to break the Hand programming on Blink and Spider-Man 2099, but they both remember everything that they did during that time. Betsy's off alone with her thoughts, wondering where to go from here. What she's going to do. Longshot and Morph come to keep her company and cheer her up, and she decides that maybe this is a good new beginning for her.

The last two panels of the issue show an alternate reality version of Psylocke being complimented about her beauty by and then murdered by another alternate reality version of Slaymaster. So it appears that in all the multiverse, it's destiny that Slaymaster will kill Betsy. An interesting set-up for future stories.

[drwho]

This book is starting to annoy me. I don't like the fact it has gotten so Betsy centric.Transdimensional travel should not be focused on just one member of the exile team. I'm tired of reading Betsy and the Exiles. This book will be on the chopping block soon if Chris doesn't come up with a decent story. I thought the ending here was meh and I kind of liked the fact that Reed had been depicted a backstabber in the last issue and here they turn it into Oh Reed wasnt evil just he had a plan. :rolleyes: This was a less then stellar start for someone with a background like Chris.

[Flight]

I've been with this title since #1 but its time I dropped it.
This has been the worst storyline in the book's 94 issue run with Claremont rehashing his hero vs. hero plots and tired dialogue (you're good! im better!!).
He was getting good again on Uncanny but hes fallen back into his usual formula.
Its ashame cause I love the characters and Psylocke is a fave of mine. I wish Bedard was still writing.

[Flight]

Double post.

[Beast]

This book is starting to annoy me. I don't like the fact it has gotten so Betsy centric.Transdimensional travel should not be focused on just one member of the exile team. I'm tired of reading Betsy and the Exiles. This book will be on the chopping block soon if Chris doesn't come up with a decent story. I thought the ending here was meh and I kind of liked the fact that Reed had been depicted a backstabber in the last issue and here they turn it into Oh Reed wasnt evil just he had a plan. :rolleyes: This was a less then stellar start for someone with a background like Chris.
It was Betsy centric because she was the new character to the team.

And was the 'New' character used to allow the restatement of the Exiles Mission Statement.

Not to mention she's barely done anything other than screw up and nearly die.

[Pach!]

If the next arc is better than this one, then maybe I'll consider picking it up again, this issue was just ok, I read it at the store.

[Ice_Cold_Emma_Frost]

This book is starting to annoy me. I don't like the fact it has gotten so Betsy centric.Transdimensional travel should not be focused on just one member of the exile team. I'm tired of reading Betsy and the Exiles. This book will be on the chopping block soon if Chris doesn't come up with a decent story. I thought the ending here was meh and I kind of liked the fact that Reed had been depicted a backstabber in the last issue and here they turn it into Oh Reed wasnt evil just he had a plan. :rolleyes: This was a less then stellar start for someone with a background like Chris.

Especially given how many "second chances" he's had since his 2000 return

Uncanny/X-Men
Xtreme Xmen
Excalibur
New Excalibur
Exiles


I think the learning curve faded a looooong time ago

[jarrod]

Claremont's Xtreme and Uncanny runs were good, with some great moments to them. Haven't read his Exiles yet thoroughly, but a strong focus on Betsy (with a nice side of Longshot) can only do good for a painfully shallow, conceptually vapid book like this. Claremontian tics and all.

[Nachturne]

I don't recall the book having a big Mariko-centric arc right when she joined...nor do I recall a big Heather/Ilyanna/Namora/etc-centric arc when they started. It tended to focus on the team.

[jarrod]

F the team, outside Betts and Shot, they're all disposable anyway.

I'd like to see Brubaker taking over this book actually. ;)

[Beast]

F the team, outside Betts and Shot, they're all disposable anyway.

I'd like to see Brubaker taking over this book actually. ;)
Did you read his Shi'ar arc? :confused:

[Joe Franklin]

I like it. Claremont has written Creed very well since he took over, and since Creed is the only character I care about on the team, I'm happy.:)

:( If Claremont gets rid of Sabretooth however, then I'm out.

[Ice_Cold_Emma_Frost]

I hate Sabertooth.....the one and only reason eXiles was EVER created was as a conduit for Blink to come back. Blink was the heart and soul of this book...since Sabertooth came on that soul was pushed aside....he's wolverine without the name or clothes in this book...and now as much as i Love Psylocke....its more about her and does NOTHING for her back story...its just a rehash of old stories that we've seen before. I'd much rather have her in Xmen with Carey

[Beast]

It does nothing for her backstory.... because it's not backstory. It's set in the present.

[jarrod]

Did you read his Shi'ar arc? :confused:
I slept through it.

Still, Bru's penchant for killing off useless background faves could do wonders on toiletpaper like Exiles.

[Joe Franklin]

I hate Sabertooth..... since Sabertooth came on that soul was pushed aside....he's wolverine without the name or clothes in this book

Creed is much cooler than Wolverine.:cool:

[ImpulseUCF]

Still, Bru's penchant for killing off useless background faves...Like Captain America? :rolleyes:

[Tobias March]

"I hate Sabertooth.....the one and only reason eXiles was EVER created was as a conduit for Blink to come back. Blink was the heart and soul of this book...since Sabertooth came on that soul was pushed aside....he's wolverine without the name or clothes in this book...and now as much as i Love Psylocke....its more about her and does NOTHING for her back story...its just a rehash of old stories that we've seen before. I'd much rather have her in Xmen with Carey"

Actually the idea above of taking Blink into 616 mightn't be a bad idea...seeing as Exiles is receiving Nocturne back again and Psylocke has just been dropped there - somehow - hell why not? You're right, Exiles was introduced as a Blink centric book for AoA fans. Perhaps it's time to bring the girl back into the fold :)

edit: ah, I misread you. You meant Psylocke to be written by Carey.

[jarrod]

Like Captain America? :rolleyes:
Exceptions don't always negate rules... in fact they usually strengthen them for the underachievers. And you don't get much more "underachiever" than Exiles. :D

[CmX]

I'm still confused as to what the hell happened.. how did the reality get erased and then it was restored? What happened to Sue, Logan and Slaymaster ?

I'm not defending CC but this arc was hardly Psylocke-centric.. only #91 was really all about Psylocke.

[blinkinrogue]

I agree, i too was confused, what happened????? even reading beast's explaination, i still couldnt figure out what was happening with the whole reality thing....ill give cc another chance in the next arc, hopefully it will be much, much better than this IMO :mad:

Also, psylocke u have powerful TK, why fight wolvie and slaymaster hand-to-hand etc etc when you can simply use your TK, instead you fight trying to show off your ninja skills and get clawed in the back for it...grrrr after enjoying the last issue, this one didnt come out as well as i hoped it would be.:(

[Arilou]

I haven't got my issue yet.... Sounds like a whole load of plot deviceyness and Betsy-centrism. Ugh. Horrible.

[Flâneur]

How come you're talking about Sue Storm here? I thought this realities' Invisible Woman was a Betsy. At least that's what I remember from when I glanced at the old summaries =/

[Lanowar]

Can someome explain to me how exactly the Exiles saved the day? I'm a bit lost.

[Beast]

Can someome explain to me how exactly the Exiles saved the day? I'm a bit lost.
They didn't. Reed Richard's did.

In a roundabout way, they saved the day by not killing Reed like the Crystal Palace computers told them to.

Since if they would have killed Reed, they would have left 2 billion people trapped for eternity.

[Omega Alpha]

So, Claremont really turned the book into PSYLOCKE and the Exiles. And by the end of the story, this certainly will continue. I'm dropping the book.

[Beast]

So, Claremont really turned the book into PSYLOCKE and the Exiles. And by the end of the story, this certainly will continue. I'm dropping the book.
Not sure where you're getting that. She's hardly been the major forcus of the arc.

[Novaya Havoc]

I don't recall the book having a big Mariko-centric arc right when she joined...nor do I recall a big Heather/Ilyanna/Namora/etc-centric arc when they started. It tended to focus on the team.

I was going to say the same thing, especially about Mariko. She joined in issue #3, but we didn't know anything about her until like, what, issue 11?

I miss Mariko.

I just got my 3rd Exiles trade. <3 <3 <3 <3 <3

Oh, I am so passe. :(

[Nachturne]

No, you ROCK because you're reading Exiles when it was GOOD!

<3<3<3

[Beast]

Sabretooth and Morph have gotten more focus than Psylocke has.

Hell, Sabretooth's gotten the most focus in this arc than he has since joining.

So should we start calling it Sabretooth and the Exiles now?

[Jesse Newcomb]

Frank Tieri opened the door for Blink's return in X-Men: Apocalypse vs Dracula. I am almost certain that the AOA Blink has been the 616 Blink all along, that she shunted into the AOA reality when she "died".

Remember that she was using her teleporting powers when she was taking care of Harvest in the Phalanx Covenant.

[Jesse Newcomb]

Sabretooth and Morph have gotten more focus than Psylocke has.

Hell, Sabretooth's gotten the most focus in this arc than he has since joining.

So should we start calling it Sabretooth and the Exiles now?

Shouldn't we rename Exiles to Chris Claremont's Sandbox where all the lame abandoned plots end up?

[Beast]

Frank Tieri opened the door for Blink's return in X-Men: Apocalypse vs Dracula. I am almost certain that the AOA Blink has been the 616 Blink all along, that she shunted into the AOA reality when she "died".

Remember that she was using her teleporting powers when she was taking care of Harvest in the Phalanx Covenant.
She was a very different character in the 616. So I don't see how that's likely.

[Jesse Newcomb]

She was a very different character in the 616. So I don't see how that's likely.

She was pretty young in the Phalanx Covenant, so she could have grown up in the AOA universe. It's not that much of a stretch.

[Beast]

She was pretty young in the Phalanx Covenant, so she could have grown up in the AOA universe. It's not that much of a stretch.
It's a huge stretch. Her appearance and powers were even slightly different.

Hell, the 616 version of her even had the traditional Beast/Wolverine hair.

Not to mention we got an established backstory for the AoA version.

[Tobias March]

It's a huge stretch. Her appearance and powers were even slightly different.

Hell, the 616 version of her even had the traditional Beast/Wolverine hair.

Not to mention we got an established backstory for the AoA version.

Yeah wasn't she much younger in AoA when Creed found her?

[The Lucky One]

Well, she has fingers in the AoA. And the reason Banshee lost hold of her in the Phalanx Covenant is because she teleported herself and Harvest into multiple segments, with her fingers separating from her hands.

So I guess that settles that argument.

-D

[jarrod]

So, Claremont really turned the book into PSYLOCKE and the Exiles.
Finally, a concept worth reading. :D


Shouldn't we rename Exiles to Chris Claremont's Sandbox where all the lame abandoned plots end up?
So you'd agree too, it's a vast improvement. :D

[Nachturne]

Finally, a concept worth reading. :D



So you'd agree too, it's a vast improvement. :D

:rolleyes:

And the thinly veiled trolling begins. You're cute.

[Joe Franklin]

Hell, Sabretooth's gotten the most focus in this arc than he has since joining.

So should we start calling it Sabretooth and the Exiles now?

I sure hope so. Sabretooth is afterall, the best character in Exiles right now.:cool:

[jarrod]

:rolleyes:

And the thinly veiled trolling begins. You're cute.
Honey, it was in full swing before I showed up.

Nocturne getting canceled by age 21! FACT!!

[ImpulseUCF]

Exceptions don't always negate rules... in fact they usually strengthen them for the underachievers. And you don't get much more "underachiever" than Exiles. :DHeh. Are you for real? Most intelligent and reasonably competent debaters at least attempt to disguise their baiting.
I'm still confused as to what the hell happened.. how did the reality get erased and then it was restored? What happened to Sue, Logan and Slaymaster ?Reed apparently reconfigured the device he was holding to do....something? Not sure what. In any case, he tricked Susan into thinking it provided access to the multiverse, but instead iti incapacitated/incinerated/incarcerated her.

Who knows what it did? Besides, it wouldn't be a neo-Claremont book without some ridiculous, unexplained phenomenon, now would it?
I was going to say the same thing, especially about Mariko. She joined in issue #3, but we didn't know anything about her until like, what, issue 11?Woo! Good for you. Man, the book was phenomenal back then, wasn't it? The characters were very well-developed and interacted realistically. Oh, and they didn't talk like it was 1972.
Sabretooth and Morph have gotten more focus than Psylocke has. False. More panel-time? Yes. More focus? No way. Betsy was clearly the focal character of the arc. The story, premise, concept and super-duper-new-power-goodness were all focused around her, featured a non-Exiles Betsy flashback, she was tagged by freakin' Roma! Betsy had most of the focus, but I'm glad CC tried to balance that by giving other characters panel time.

Still, though, CC's Sabes sounds more and more like 616 CC Wolverine with every passing panel. "Darlin'!"
She was pretty young in the Phalanx Covenant, so she could have grown up in the AOA universe. It's not that much of a stretch.Err, sorry, but it's completely implausible. AoA Blink was bred, born and raised in breeding pens as a child and then rescued by AoA Creed and was with the AoA X-Men ever since until her Exiles tour. Sorry, no dice.
:rolleyes:

And the thinly veiled trolling begins. You're cute.No, no, you've got it all wrong. He isn't even trying to hide it.

[CMBMOOL]

Nice ending, werid though, but nice. :D

[The Lucky One]

Heh. Are you for real? Most intelligent and reasonably competent debaters at least attempt to disguise their baiting.

I do all my baiting at night, after my wife has gone to bed.

-D

[Joe Acro]

I honestly don't know what happened. I don't know how Reed did some of the things he did, especially how he saved reality. I don't know how Psylocke recovered or how Longshot was struck down in battle. I don't know why Claremont writes Morph the way he does.

With plenty of coloring errors (even on the cover:eek:) and sloppy writing, I didn't really enjoy this issue.

[Brian "Vash" Ashby]

I do all my baiting at night, after my wife has gone to bed.

-D

And IIIIII helped


Seriously if this book does become a Psylocke/Longshot buddy book i will actually look into it

Its always been a "hey remember AOA? That was awesome wasnt it? Lets see those characters along with some redshirts again" book.

And Mimic, shame the one thing he couldnt mimic was being interesting. To the MAX Soulpatch soldier!

;)

[The Lucky One]

how Longshot was struck down in battle.

Uh... Sue hit him with an invisible force field bubble. I thought it was pretty clear. Even good luck has limits when you can't see an attack coming.

-D

[Joe Acro]

Uh... Sue hit him with an invisible force field bubble. I thought it was pretty clear. Even good luck has limits when you can't see an attack coming.

-D
Maybe I just lack experience with the character, but I was under the impression that he would have suddenly felt compelled to jump or something, thus avoiding the shot and being "lucky". I don't think it's as simple as "my power doesn't work when I can't see what I'm dodging". It's not like he really controls it anyway.

[Beast]

Just because he has luck powers, doesn't mean that bad things still can't happen to him.

Yes, he's incredibly lucky. But as they say, luck isn't everything.

[Novaya Havoc]

That's why I hate luck based powers. It's just so... so... meh.

[jarrod]

Screw probablility manipulation... hard light dildos is where it's at!

[Novaya Havoc]

Screw probablility manipulation... hard light dildos is where it's at!

Yeah. In Claremont's head it is. :p

[Beast]

Screw probablility manipulation... hard light dildos is where it's at!
Now now. Let's have none of that. Novaya's not starting stuff, so don't you do so.

[jarrod]

Yeah. In TeeJay's @$$ it is. :p
Fixed for accuracy.

[xmanson]

Weird. Iloved the issue until Susan used the dimension thingy. I really did. I thought the battle was awesome, very creative use of powers from Susan all around. But then it got weird. I still dont get it.

Was it programmed to erase all thing Hydra?

Still, great fight.

[Syzygy]

I was so disappointed in this issue, I don't even have the energy to properly critique it. In brief:

* I'm confused as to why that entire reality had to be detroyed simply because Sue Storm took over Hydra. Surely, Sue Storm isn't a multiverse level threat, like say the Phoenix or Mad Jim Jaspers?

* I'm confused as to how that universe was destroyed and then recreated -- although I get the part about teleporting people to safety.

* Why was Psylocke using her martial arts skills rather than her TK? Surely, a TK vs Force Fields bout would have been a grand attraction here.

CC badly needs a co-writer or, at least, an editor who isn't sleeping on the job.

[Beast]

I was so disappointed in this issue, I don't even have the energy to properly critique it. In brief:

* I'm confused as to why that entire reality had to be detroyed simply because Sue Storm took over Hydra. Surely, Sue Storm isn't a multiverse level threat, like say the Phoenix or Mad Jim Jaspers?

* I'm confused as to how that universe was destroyed and then recreated -- although I get the part about teleporting people to safety.

* Why was Psylocke using her martial arts skills rather than her TK? Surely, a TK vs Force Fields bout would have been a grand attraction here.

CC badly needs a co-writer or, at least, an editor who isn't sleeping on the job.
She would have been had she used Reed's equipment to get access to the entire Multiverse. She already basically took over an entire earth and either converted or killed all but around 2 billion people.

It appears that Reed basically used his usual canon Deus Ex Machina that he pulls out of his ass regularly to shunt the universe off into a pocket dimension. Obliterating the Hydra/Hand threat as well.

Psylocke has always depended on her martial arts skills over her TK when it comes to a fight. Ever since she got the skills she always puts them before he powers. It's also typically her downfall.

[jarrod]

CC badly needs a co-writer or, at least, an editor who isn't sleeping on the job.
Claremont + Yost ftw. I actually wouldn't mind seeing Yost backing up CC for NEX either... they worked wonderfully in NEX8.

[The Lucky One]

That's why I hate luck based powers. It's just so... so... meh.

If only all characters could have a concept as strong as silver jumpsuits and roller skates...

-D

[CmX]

I so thought we were going to see a Sue vs Psylocke! I mean.. that's what it was screaming but whatever.. also Slaymaster was so prominent and was setting up and like.. nothing happened. The cover is a complete mis-leader.. but a neat little throw back.

As a Psylocke fan this arc was hardly Psylocke heavy.. yeah she was the focus but she was hardly featured in any of the pages.

Morph was a little better this issue.. but doesn't make up for the retardation that was the last two issues!

Longshot was constantly brainwashed by Mojo.. how did the Hand not brainwash him ? I was cheesed out by that.

I just thought the ending was kinda lame.. all this set up of characters and nobody really did anything. Oh well, next arc.

[blinkinrogue]

maybe it wouldnt have ended as bad if at least more explaination was made about what happened, I'm as confused as the rest of you....
Whats the next arc about?

I miss Evil Hyperion. even chuck austen wrote better stories with the exiles with that madman around than this arc...

[Syzygy]

She would have been had she used Reed's equipment to get access to the entire Multiverse. She already basically took over an entire earth and either converted or killed all but around 2 billion people.

No reason to destroy an entire reality to get at her, surely. There must be any number of heroes on any number of Earth's -- including alternates of Sue herself -- that can take her.

If not, why not just destroy that particular Earth -- nova the sun, detonate the core, call in the Stranger or the Silver Surfer, etc. No reason to sink that entire universe to get at her.

[DDM]

* Why was Psylocke using her martial arts skills rather than her TK? Surely, a TK vs Force Fields bout would have been a grand attraction here.

Reread Uncanny X-Men #256-278 & X-Men #1-3 (second series). Psylocke, in her Asian body, is an action junkie since she gained her heart's desire to become the ultimate woman warrior. It is also her weakness because she is overconfident that she can handle any situation.


CC badly needs a co-writer or, at least, an editor who isn't sleeping on the job.

Chris Claremont does not need a co-writer. Much less happened than you think. Heck, Uncanny X-Men #108 has more heavy stuff--such as the M'Krann Crystal's nature, the Neutron Galaxy, Phoenix literally saving the universe all by herself, the Tree of Life--going on in the 17 pages, yet Claremont's dense story just makes the reader need to reread the book to get all the details. The same applies to Exiles #94.

[CmX]

maybe it wouldnt have ended as bad if at least more explaination was made about what happened, I'm as confused as the rest of you....
Whats the next arc about?

I miss Evil Hyperion. even chuck austen wrote better stories with the exiles with that madman around than this arc...

IIRC something about the Crystal Palace being abandoned when they come back from the Hydra mission and their next mission involves Dr. Doom if I'm not mistaken. Talk about FF usage.

[Syzygy]

Reread Uncanny X-Men #256-278 & X-Men #1-3 (second series). Psylocke, in her Asian body, is an action junkie since she gained her heart's desire to become the ultimate woman warrior. It is also her weakness because she is overconfident that she can handle any situation.

Poopy. Any character who is not a complete stupid idiot knows you can't beat force fields with martial arts, you need TK. Are you saying Psylocke is a complete stupid idiot? If so, why should I and other readers give even a rancid fart about her?


Chris Claremont does not need a co-writer. Much less happened than you think. Heck, Uncanny X-Men #108 has more heavy stuff--such as the M'Krann Crystal's nature, the Neutron Galaxy, Phoenix literally saving the universe all by herself, the Tree of Life--going on in the 17 pages, yet Claremont's dense story just makes the reader need to reread the book to get all the details. The same applies to Exiles #94.

Double poopy. Enough readers have complained about the story for me to know it's not just me who is confused.

Chris needs a co-writer these days. His stories just aren't senisible and compact. Heck, even a decent editor would work!

[ImpulseUCF]

Chris needs a co-writer these days. His stories just aren't senisible and compact.It's true. It's almost clockwork. Nearly every single issue he writes has:

1. Something that just plain doesn't make any sense - suddenly calling the multiverse crosstime? Morph acting like a 9 year-old? Betsy can turn invisible? What the hell did Reed actually do?

2. Inexplicable changes in characterization so CC can write about basic archetypes or tell whatever story he wants to tell regardless of whether its consistent- Morph as "the 9 year-old rookie Creed chearleader;" Creed as 80s Logan;"

3. Cringe-worthy dialogue and phrases - "What the devil?!"

Runners up. Nearly ever issue, or about every arc, has:

1. Dull, lifeless, unmotivated, underdeveloped, flat, stupid villains - Shadow X-Men in New Excalibur, the Neo, etc.

2. Mind controlzzorz!!!

3. Borderline lesbianic, strong-willed, S&M loving heroic, tough leading females - Iron Man killed, like, 10 billion peez, but he was no match for...ELEKTRA!!!! Because she's a ninja...and uses SAIS!!!!! Sais, I say! Superior technology and a perfect track record mean nothing against ninjaz wif mad SAYEE skillz, boyee!

4. Forced, unbelievable familial tendencies with no buildup whatsoever - "We're family...we're <insert team name>. We look after our own!"

:rolleyes:

The man is full of creative ideas and untapped potential. He's written some legendary stuff in his day. I believe he can approach those heights again with a little bit of help. A little teamwork can go a long way, after all. When you don't use teamwork, you end up with dreck like New Excalibur and Shadow X-Men.

[xmanson]

I think Creed see Clarice as family. CC's Creed seems interesting to me.

I like Morph in this issue.

I think CC is not very fond of Gabriel.

"What the devil?" is not that bad, actually.

Iceman is gay.

[Nachturne]

DDM must stand for Deleriously Denial Man. Seriously, give it a rest.

[Syzygy]

The man is full of creative ideas and untapped potential. He's written some legendary stuff in his day. I believe he can approach those heights again with a little bit of help. A little teamwork can go a long way, after all.

Agree. I'd like to see him reach those heights again. It hurts me to see CC write mediocre stories.

His best work, arguably, was his collaboration with Byrne. CC needs another great collaborator, and then we'll see some rockin' good stories....

At least, one lives in hope....

[ImpulseUCF]

His best work, arguably, was his collaboration with Byrne. CC needs another great collaborator, and then we'll see some rockin' good stories....And for the life of me, I cannot understand how some people simply refuse to believe that Claremont could actually benefit from teamwork! Let's face facts. If his solo writing was as great as it ever was, he wouldn't be relegated to write two obscure, B-list X-titles while the flagship titles are written by new blood.

Is it so horrible to believe he might benefit from a collaborator? Two or more people working together can filter each other's ideas, bounce ideas of each other, improve each other's ideas, etc. It'd be exciting to see CC work with a collaborator who can speak to a modern audience and gels with CC's personality. I think then we'd get some killer work!

[The Lucky One]

I think CC is not very fond of Gabriel.

...who?

-D

[CmX]

Before this issue came out I thought Slaymaster was going to rip Betsy's eyes out and she'd gain her TP back naturally, like gaining much more control over your senses when you lose another one?

I got to thinking that last panel with the alternate Betsy being killed by Slaymaster do you think that maybe Sue, Logan and him were thrusted out in some random reality ? It wasn't confirmed if they were alive or not and he said he wanted the team to have a rogues gallery.

Yeah I'm sick of mind control too Impulse! :( And Sue Storm said, "my darling" like 800 times this issue.

DDM - Please explain what happened at the end of the issue with reality being erased/restored you're the BEST at making up excuses for CC's messes, lesse this one pleeeeease. :D

[Brian "Vash" Ashby]

...who?

-D

Hes probably an alternative reality version of someone interesting.

[xmanson]

...who?

-D

I was thinking Miguel, but ended up typing the brother's name.

[The Lucky One]

I was thinking Miguel, but ended up typing the brother's name.

Don't you hate that? When you mean one thing but say the brother?

-D

[The Lucky One]

Hes probably an alternative reality version of someone interesting.

Vash, we are too clever for this room by half. What is to be done?

-D

[jarrod]

AIs it so horrible to believe he might benefit from a collaborator? Two or more people working together can filter each other's ideas, bounce ideas of each other, improve each other's ideas, etc. It'd be exciting to see CC work with a collaborator who can speak to a modern audience and gels with CC's personality. I think then we'd get some killer work!
I think we had this to a degree with Bachalo already. Claremont's a born collaborator, and I'd say his work is generally only as good as the storytelling and creativity of the artist he's paired with. Hence his best stuff being with guys like Byrne, Smith, Lee, Adams, Davis, Sienkiewicz, etc.

Claremont and Bachalo both spoke about the sharing of ideas and back and forth that preceeded End of Greys, and the results were spectacular. I'd agree that Claremont's a great ideas man, a great character builder, but he does need someone to stablilize him and rope in his worse tics now and then. Shame we never got to see where his collaboration with Bachalo might've headed...

[ImpulseUCF]

I'd agree that Claremont's a great ideas man, a great character builder, but he does need someone to stablilize him and rope in his worse tics now and then. Shame we never got to see where his collaboration with Bachalo might've headed...On this, we actually agree. :)

[DDM]

Exiles #94 is a great conclusion to the first Chris Claremont storyline. Reed Richards tapped into Heather's computer to shunt his reality into another dimension (hence he stated to Sabretooth & Morph that Heather's computer is not as secure as she thinks it is). In the meantime, Heather believes the reality is completely expunged while the Exiles is still on the planet. Chris Claremont is subtly saying that Heather is too dependent on the Crystal Castle computers & takes everything the Crystal Castle says as absolute truth.

In the meantime, Psylocke realizes she is not over the loss of her eyes, despite being in a new body & trained by the Hand to be the ultimate woman warrior ninja. She can fight any for except Slaymaster. When she sees him, she flashbacks to Captain Britain #13 when he rips out her eyes & nearly kills her. Wolverine takes advantage of Psylocke's weakness & stabs her. However, she does not die, but take several weeks to recover. In some ways, this story shows--despite all of Psylocke's changes--she is still fundamentally the same woman with all her strengths & weaknesses. Betsy overcompensates in thinking she can handle any threat since she believes she is unbeatable.

The alternate Betsy is killed by another Slaymaster to show it is her destiny to be killed by him (on Earth-616, she was nearly killed & the same thing almost happened again on this Earth). I don't think we have seen the last of the HYDRA/Hand Slaymaster...

Psylocke remains the POV character which makes sense because Chris Claremont is most familiar with her. This will change the longer he is on the book.

Psylocke is mis-colored again on the cover. The colorist needs to get a clue about the new characters. Psylocke has purple hair & a blue costume, but he is coloring her the reverse.

Chris Claremont's dense scripts is wonderful given the era of decompression with too little story to fill it out.

9/10

[DDM]

Before this issue came out I thought Slaymaster was going to rip Betsy's eyes out and she'd gain her TP back naturally, like gaining much more control over your senses when you lose another one?

Slaymaster's appearance is to show Betsy is not over the loss over her eyes & she is not over the experience from Captain Britain #13.

The panel showing the alternate Betsy getting killed by the alternate Slaymaster is to show it is her destiny to be killed by him.

Betsy's telekinesis is tied to Rachel. Her telepathy might be restored when the ties that bind Betsy & Rachel are broken.

[Nachturne]

Hmm..

Has Claremont ever written anything that wasn't 9+/10??

Sheesh.

[DDM]

Hmm..

Has Claremont ever written anything that wasn't 9+/10??

Sheesh.

Yes. Have you ever not slagged Claremont?

[DDM]

I think I see another storyline in which the Crystal Castle becomes compromised when a villain taps into the Crystal Castle computer as Reed Richards had done.

[The Lucky One]

Hmm..

Has Claremont ever written anything that wasn't 9+/10??

That Savage Land mini. And man, the Black Sun mini. Yeesh.

-D

[DDM]

That Savage Land mini. And man, the Black Sun mini. Yeesh.

-D

The first several Ms. Marvel stories...

[Pach!]

Yes. Have you ever not slagged Claremont?

Maybe back when he actually wrote good stories. I feel he has no grasp on the characters of exiles with the exception of Psylocke. I really hope this book changes it's writer soon, I'll probably give it another chance then. Let's just hope CC doesn't get it canceled before that.

[blinkinrogue]

i think ill wait until the crossover is finished before i decide to drop this title or not instead of waiting for the next arc to finish.

[DDM]

Maybe back when he actually wrote good stories. I feel he has no grasp on the characters of exiles with the exception of Psylocke. I really hope this book changes it's writer soon, I'll probably give it another chance then. Let's just hope CC doesn't get it canceled before that.

http://www.health-in-action.org/library/pdf/Shaken%20Baby/Images/Waa%20cry%20baby2.jpg

Whatever happened to patience? People seem to want instant gratification yesterday. I think you're slagging Claremont because he has consistently written comics for over 30 years. The man knows what he's doing.

His first issues of Uncanny X-Men were equally rocky as he got a grasp of the characters. Any writer goes through this with each book he writers. Some get it. Some don't. Chris Claremont gets it, although you are obviously clueless where's he's gong. That's a good hallmark of a writer. It leaves the audience guessing about the direction of the stories.

[Pach!]

http://www.health-in-action.org/library/pdf/Shaken%20Baby/Images/Waa%20cry%20baby2.jpg

Whatever happened to patience? People seem to want instant gratification yesterday. I think you're slagging Claremont because he has consistently written comics for over 30 years. The man knows what he's doing.

His first issues of Uncanny X-Men were equally rocky as he got a grasp of the characters. Any writer goes through this with each book he writers. Some get it. Some don't. Chris Claremont gets it, although you are obviously clueless where's he's gong. That's a good hallmark of a writer. It leaves the audience guessing about the direction of the stories.

That's an awesome picture by the way..It actually made me laugh. As for Claremont..I gave to many chances to entertain me, I don't have that much money to keep trowing it away.

[jarrod]

I feel he has no grasp on the characters of exiles with the exception of Psylocke.
People seem to like his Sabretooth actually. Really though, Betsy and Shot are the only characters even worth grasping in this trainwreck.

I wonder how long till Blink bites it...

[blinkinrogue]

I wonder how long till Blink bites it...

As soon as never. :)

[Jesse Newcomb]

Um, Psylocke got over the loss of her eyes a long time ago in X-Men 31-32. But that doesn't matter to Claremont since he didn't write those issues.......:confused:


Why can't he just build on what has been done to the characters? I mean, not all of the developments that happened to them in the 90s was terrible. I think one of the hallmarks of a good writer is creativity, if you didn't like what went on before with your character, come up with a really good retcon, instead of ignoring it. But that would mean that Claremont had to work...........

[The Lucky One]

Why can't he just build on what has been done to the characters? I mean, not all of the developments that happened to them in the 90s was terrible. I think one of the hallmarks of a good writer is creativity, if you didn't like what went on before with your character, come up with a really good retcon, instead of ignoring it. But that would mean that Claremont had to work...........

Ironically, I would argue that no writer currently working on the X-books is better at respecting the work of other writers than Claremont. And I say that not as a Claremont fan, but as someone who's watched him draw time and again on ideas introduced by other writers for his own stories. Especially in X-Treme X-Men, he was the king of building off of ideas Morrison had introduced in one issue and then forgotten about.

-D

[Karl H]

Ironically, I would argue that no writer currently working on the X-books is better at respecting the work of other writers than Claremont. And I say that not as a Claremont fan, but as someone who's watched him draw time and again on ideas introduced by other writers for his own stories. Especially in X-Treme X-Men, he was the king of building off of ideas Morrison had introduced in one issue and then forgotten about.

-D

agreed

1010

[jarrod]

Why can't he just build on what has been done to the characters? I mean, not all of the developments that happened to them in the 90s was terrible. I think one of the hallmarks of a good writer is creativity, if you didn't like what went on before with your character, come up with a really good retcon, instead of ignoring it. But that would mean that Claremont had to work...........
To be fair, everything that happened to Psylocke in the 90s *was* terrible though. Unquestionably, she had it worse that almost anyone else except maybe Rogue.

Actually I'd say all the more famous Claremont ladies (Jean, Ororo, Betsy, Rogue) suffered quite a bit under Nicezia and Slobby. Slobby even offed poor Illyana and snuck into Excalibur to ruin Rachel too... thank god he didn't stick around. I'd say only core characters in the satellite books like Kitty or Dani really came off things well.

[Nachturne]

That's an awesome picture by the way..It actually made me laugh. As for Claremont..I gave to many chances to entertain me, I don't have that much money to keep trowing it away.

Amen. I own way too much Claremont crap. I've given the man chance after chance after chance. I can't afford to buy crap that's neither entertaining, nor accurate to the character (specifically when it comes to Nocturne, who is total proof of CC's inability to pay attention to what's come before).

I think the proof of a truly great writer, is when you can't unload his work on Ebay for 99 cents. I STILL can't get anyone to buy The End from me. Claremont is GOLD!

And I'll stop slagging him when he writes something decent for once. And when people stop making excuses for his DREK.

[jarrod]

Claremont pays attention when the concept's worth paying attention too. See; Moore/Delano/Davis Captain Britian or Morrison/Quitely New X-Men. Hell not even then always, he even upheld crap like the Draco. :/

[Scavenger]

I think the proof of a truly great writer, is when you can't unload his work on Ebay for 99 cents. I STILL can't get anyone to buy The End from me. Claremont is GOLD!

Would would someone buy your used books when they're readily available in tpbs and as unsold back issues. Considering that a friend of mine has been living off what he sold some Claremont X-Men for off ebay, I think Claremont's name is pretty ok.

[Hi-Fi]

Don't you hate that? When you mean one thing but say the brother?

-D
LOL. Youre funny.:D


Whatever happened to patience? People seem to want instant gratification yesterday.
Next time you complain on the Astonishing X-Men thread that nothing happens, think of this, Dee Dee.;)

Ironically, I would argue that no writer currently working on the X-books is better at respecting the work of other writers than Claremont. And I say that not as a Claremont fan, but as someone who's watched him draw time and again on ideas introduced by other writers for his own stories. Especially in X-Treme X-Men, he was the king of building off of ideas Morrison had introduced in one issue and then forgotten about.

-D
I say Carey does it better. In a totally no-biased opinion. Seriously.

[jarrod]

I say Carey does it better. In a totally no-biased opinion. Seriously.
PAD's remarkably good at it too, hell X-Factor's whole setup and focus has been based on other writer's concepts so far.

C&C are great at acknowledging the wider X-verse too. So is Nicezia. Really, about everyone currently on the Xbooks *but* Whedon is...

[Hi-Fi]

You're right. Chris and Craig and PAD are great at it as well.

[Brian M.]

Whatever happened to patience? People seem to want instant gratification yesterday.

You have got to be joking? Seriously? You of all people should be the last one saying to be patient.

[Nachturne]

Would would someone buy your used books when they're readily available in tpbs and as unsold back issues. Considering that a friend of mine has been living off what he sold some Claremont X-Men for off ebay, I think Claremont's name is pretty ok.

Because I've offered the entire run for like...$5?? But I've given up.

I'm sure your friend sold some classic Claremont, which even I would admit is legendary. However, the new stuff is crap. As Phil and others have said time and time again, just because the man was once a legend doesn't excuse what he's doing now. It's actually really sad because we could have just had all of Claremont's good stuff to remember of him, and now he's tarnishing his own reputation. And there are plenty of new readers who know crap about Claremont and are being introduced to him through Exiles and NEX and similar drek. If NEX were my first intro to Claremont, I'd have no interest in reading anything the man did before, and think anyone who touted his legendary status was nuts.

[jarrod]

Time to drop the baggage sweetheart, it's just not good for you. Srsly.

[Jesse Newcomb]

Because I've offered the entire run for like...$5?? But I've given up.

I'm sure your friend sold some classic Claremont, which even I would admit is legendary. However, the new stuff is crap. As Phil and others have said time and time again, just because the man was once a legend doesn't excuse what he's doing now. It's actually really sad because we could have just had all of Claremont's good stuff to remember of him, and now he's tarnishing his own reputation. And there are plenty of new readers who know crap about Claremont and are being introduced to him through Exiles and NEX and similar drek. If NEX were my first intro to Claremont, I'd have no interest in reading anything the man did before, and think anyone who touted his legendary status was nuts.

I know. I know this guy who got in thru Morrison and really loved what he did, and I told him that he should check out his run with John Byrne and he was like, nah because he read his Uncanny run and didn't like it at all.

I told him that CC's peak was in that run with Byrne, but he didn't want to even try it.

[Omega Alpha]

People seem to like his Sabretooth actually. Really though, Betsy and Shot are the only characters even worth grasping in this trainwreck.

I wonder how long till Blink bites it...

His Sabretooth is 80's Wolverine mostly.

[jarrod]

His Sabretooth is 80's Wolverine mostly.

So it's kinda like Brubaker's Warpath, but better. ;)

[Nachturne]

Time to drop the baggage sweetheart, it's just not good for you. Srsly.

Aww you sure like to tease me....do you have a crush?? AWW!!! :P

<3<3<3

[fishtaco]

It had a few rough spots, but overall I thought it was a good arc. Looking forward to what happens next.

[jarrod]

Not into thongs really... more of a basketball shorts/tube socks guy myself.

[Joe Acro]

I saw a discussion appear earlier in the thread discussing whether or not Claremont needs a co-writer. I think it's not that he needs a co-writer, but an artist that can write. His best work has come from working with Dave Cockrum, John Byrne, Alan Davis, and John Romita, Jr. All of these men have proven that they can write or at least enhance the writing of some stories. I can imagine them starting to draw a part of an issue and thinking that something doesn't quite work or isn't clear. I suggest pairing him with another such artist. That's not to say Paul Pelletier isn't creative, but given some of the stuff I've seen in this arc, he's probably more of following direction than offering input. (Given the limited background humor with Morph, quite noticeable under Bedard's run, Claremont seems to be a stricter writer.)

[jarrod]

I saw a discussion appear earlier in the thread discussing whether or not Claremont needs a co-writer. I think it's not that he needs a co-writer, but an artist that can write. His best work has come from working with Dave Cockrum, John Byrne, Alan Davis, and John Romita, Jr. All of these men have proven that they can write or at least enhance the writing of some stories. I can imagine them starting to draw a part of an issue and thinking that something doesn't quite work or isn't clear. I suggest pairing him with another such artist. That's not to say Paul Pelletier isn't creative, but given some of the stuff I've seen in this arc, he's probably more of following direction than offering input. (Given the limited background humor with Morph, quite noticeable under Bedard's run, Claremont seems to be a stricter writer.)
Bingo!

End of Greys didn't rock by accident... it rocked because of the creative accord and synergy between Claremont and Bachalo as well as Bachalo's own formidable storytelling abilities. Claremont often leaves his artists tons of room, he needs an artist who'll take that and really push him further.

[Beast]

Ironically, I would argue that no writer currently working on the X-books is better at respecting the work of other writers than Claremont. And I say that not as a Claremont fan, but as someone who's watched him draw time and again on ideas introduced by other writers for his own stories. Especially in X-Treme X-Men, he was the king of building off of ideas Morrison had introduced in one issue and then forgotten about.

-D
Indeed. Especially since Morrison even praised Claremont's use of his ideas.

[Beast]

His Sabretooth is 80's Wolverine mostly.
That's because Sabretooth's role in the AoA was 80's Wolverine.

[Beast]

Would would someone buy your used books when they're readily available in tpbs and as unsold back issues. Considering that a friend of mine has been living off what he sold some Claremont X-Men for off ebay, I think Claremont's name is pretty ok.
Pretty much. Unless comics are actually rare... in today's environment comics just don't sell well on Ebay. Because they always end up being traded at some point. Stuff that sells is either out of print trades or older stuff. Look at Mekanix, it was selling for over a $100 for a while.

[Nachturne]

So I take it we'd all buy back issues for $3+ each or three trades for $16 each over the entire run of The End on Ebay for $5. OK. I'm no longer confused about why you all like Claremont.

[jarrod]

Well, I personally tend not to base my likes or dislikes off resale value. Should be a concept any Exiles fan can relate to. ;)

[Nachturne]

Awww sweetie!!! You're so cute!!! :D

[Phil Hunn]

Agree. I'd like to see him reach those heights again. It hurts me to see CC write mediocre stories.

Me too. It's terribly painful to watch a great writer taking a good long dip in the waters of mediocrity when he's capable of so much more.

And for the life of me, I cannot understand how some people simply refuse to believe that Claremont could actually benefit from teamwork! Let's face facts. If his solo writing was as great as it ever was, he wouldn't be relegated to write two obscure, B-list X-titles while the flagship titles are written by new blood.

Quoted For Truth. If Claremont was still the shiznit, we'd still be reading his stories on Uncanny X-Men. But sales went into freefall when he was on that book, so Marvel did the only sensible thing they could and relegated him to a non-core title.

People seem to like his Sabretooth actually. Really though, Betsy and Shot are the only characters even worth grasping in this trainwreck.

I wonder how long till Blink bites it...

That'll happen at a quarter-past never.

As for CC's Sabretooth... I flipped through the latest issue today, and I had to look twice to check whether Sabretooth was actually a muscle suit with Logan nestled inside.

Amen. I own way too much Claremont crap. I've given the man chance after chance after chance. I can't afford to buy crap that's neither entertaining, nor accurate to the character (specifically when it comes to Nocturne, who is total proof of CC's inability to pay attention to what's come before).

Agreed. This is why I don't read either title any more.

I think the proof of a truly great writer, is when you can't unload his work on Ebay for 99 cents. I STILL can't get anyone to buy The End from me. Claremont is GOLD!

Ouch. That's painful.

Because I've offered the entire run for like...$5?? But I've given up.

I'm sure your friend sold some classic Claremont, which even I would admit is legendary. However, the new stuff is crap. As Phil and others have said time and time again, just because the man was once a legend doesn't excuse what he's doing now. It's actually really sad because we could have just had all of Claremont's good stuff to remember of him, and now he's tarnishing his own reputation.

Indeed. It's like, oh, I dunno, Pill-Popping-Vegas Elvis as opposed to Pre-Burgers-And-Pills Elvis. PBAP-Elvis was awesome - a dancing machine with boundless energy. PPV-Elvis was fat and lethargic with giant sideburns.

Indeed. Especially since Morrison even praised Claremont's use of his ideas.

And used Thunderbird III far more effectively than Claremont ever did, incidentally.

[ImpulseUCF]

Slaymaster's appearance is to show Betsy is not over the loss over her eyes & she is not over the experience from Captain Britain #13. Ohh, okay, how relevant to Exiles.
The panel showing the alternate Betsy getting killed by the alternate Slaymaster is to show it is her destiny to be killed by him. .... :confused: I think that's a bit of a stretch. Maybe a Slaymaster is lose murdering AU Betsy's. Maybe there is just a strand of realities amongst the infiinte number out there that spun off of that instance.

What it was, though, was freakin' hilarious!! I laughed my damn head off when this dude just walks up to Betsy and PUNCHES HER IN THE FREAKIN' FACE!!

"Al'lo, love."
"Charmed."
POW!!!!!! :evilsmile :D LOL
Whatever happened to patience? People seem to want instant gratification yesterday. I think you're slagging Claremont because he has consistently written comics for over 30 years. The man knows what he's doing. Patience has nothing to do with it! What people want is quality writing! What people don't want is to suffer through mediocre drek indefinitely in hope of a payoff that may never come.
Some get it. Some don't. Chris Claremont gets it, although you are obviously clueless where's he's gong. That's a good hallmark of a writer. It leaves the audience guessing about the direction of the stories.What's to get? There's a different between picking up on intentional logical clues and making shit up to try to cover something left completely unexplained that just doesn't make any sense.

Leaving unanswered questions and mysteries = good. Leaving WTF moments and seemingly absurd or contradictory details unexplained =/= good.

[xmanson]

Did Reed hide their planet in that pocket dimension? Are they still hidden? Are they back?

[Beast]

Did Reed hide their planet in that pocket dimension? Are they still hidden? Are they back?
From the narration for the destruction and return page, everything was restored.

[Brian "Vash" Ashby]

how do they get to this pocket dimension? Is it like Flash gordon? Is there some sort of pocket rocket?

[ImpulseUCF]

What's not clear is what happened to Sue and Wolverine. Did they vanish along with everything else? Where are they now? Isn't someone the least bit concerned that the evil bitch with reality-destroying capabilities is inexplicably MIA?

[xmanson]

From the narration for the destruction and return page, everything was restored.

Why was it destroyed? Where did Susan, Wolverine and Slaymaster end up? How did it all work? So fucking messy!


And CC's sabretotth is very in charcater with his AoA and Exiles protrayal.

[xmanson]

how do they get to this pocket dimension? Is it like Flash gordon? Is there some sort of pocket rocket?

Maybe there's a pocket rocket socket!!

[Novaya Havoc]

If Claremont brought back Mariko, I may forgive him for this arc.

Mariko. :(



Regarding Exiles --

Nachturne : Nocturne
Novaya Havoc : Sunfire

[Hi-Fi]

Mariko is easily the best Exiles character. I stop reading it after she died.

[Brian "Vash" Ashby]

I think morph was the only exile i liked in the beginning.

[Phil Hunn]

And CC's sabretotth is very in charcater with his AoA and Exiles protrayal.

Not really. There's a world of difference between Mr Creed in the AoA and this blond, six-foot Logan we've got now.

And dialogue like "I'm pushin' my natural healin' factor as hard as it can go" makes me cringe.

[ImpulseUCF]

Mariko is easily the best Exiles character. I stop reading it after she died.Yeah. :( I miss Mariko. Perhaps uncoincidentally, this also marked Winnick's departure from the book, which is also when the quality began to nosedive. It's like the heart of the book died with her, and its been on a downward spiral ever since.
And dialogue like "I'm pushin' my natural healin' factor as hard as it can go" makes me cringe.You forgot "Who's that? My foot! I'm falling'! I fell! I've fallen down. With all of my other injuries, I'll have to really put my natural healing factor...my mutant ability that lets me recover from outstanding injuries....to the test!"

...too far?

[xmanson]

Yeah. :( I miss Mariko. Perhaps uncoincidentally, this also marked Winnick's departure from the book, which is also when the quality began to nosedive. It's like the heart of the book died with her, and its been on a downward spiral ever since.

I think the nosedive started in the early 10's of the book. The only actually A grade stories were the oneshot ones where no missions were involved. the rest was B at best. Winnick action issues were never really good and mostly failry simplistic, making the book formulatic way too early in its run.

[steve2275]

morphernaught :cool: :p

[Joe Acro]

Bingo!

End of Greys didn't rock by accident... it rocked because of the creative accord and synergy between Claremont and Bachalo as well as Bachalo's own formidable storytelling abilities. Claremont often leaves his artists tons of room, he needs an artist who'll take that and really push him further.
I'm not a fan of End of Greys, so you'll get no help from me there. I'm also not sure about how much leeway he leaves his artists these days. Remember when Morph walked around in the background and became amusing things? Like in the Shi'ar/Galactus story where he turns into the Enterprise? He doesn't do anything like that in this arc. Maybe those fun ideas were really Bedard's, but they seemed so non-essential to the story that I assumed they were Pelletier's. If they were Pelletier's, why aren't they there now?

[Big Red Spider]

Oh well, I guess it nothing stay interesting forever.

[Stephane Garrelie]

I'm not a fan of End of Greys, so you'll get no help from me there. I'm also not sure about how much leeway he leaves his artists these days. Remember when Morph walked around in the background and became amusing things? Like in the Shi'ar/Galactus story where he turns into the Enterprise? He doesn't do anything like that in this arc. Maybe those fun ideas were really Bedard's, but they seemed so non-essential to the story that I assumed they were Pelletier's. If they were Pelletier's, why aren't they there now?

If he did that under Claremont, some posters would be saying that CC is recycling his ideas from the Asgardian Wars Uncanny X-Men/New Mutants crossover where Warlock turns into the Enterprise.

[Jesse Newcomb]

If he did that under Claremont, some posters would be saying that CC is recycling his ideas from the Asgardian Wars Uncanny X-Men/New Mutants crossover where Warlock turns into the Enterprise.

Oh come off it, none of the Claremont haters are that dedicated.:mad:

Just accept that there is a huge vocal majority of comic readers that are not into Claremont's output anymore. We're allowed to express our opinion without being looked at with such disdain.:evilangry

[Beast]

There's hundreds, hell... thousands of comic books out there. If you don't like his work, it's easy to avoid. It's really just that simple. I don't actively go out searching for work done by writers I dislike. I don't quickly snap up the latest Black Panther and foam at the mouth over it. I drop the books and move on to something I do enjoy. Noone is holding a gun to your head and forcing you to buy or read books you're not enjoying. Shame that so few people get that. If it's the collector mentality, best to break that now.

[Jesse Newcomb]

There's hundreds, hell... thousands of comic books out there. If you don't like his work, it's easy to avoid. It's really just that simple. I don't actively go out searching for work done by writers I dislike. I don't quickly snap up the latest Black Panther and foam at the mouth over it. I drop the books and move on to something I do enjoy. Noone is holding a gun to your head and forcing you to buy or read books you're not enjoying. Shame that so few people get that. If it's the collector mentality, best to break that now.

You can harp that all you want, but people are gonna follow the characters no matter what.

[Beast]

You can harp that all you want, but people are gonna follow the characters no matter what.
I'm not the one harping. ;)

And if that's the case, then it's their own fault. They deserve what they get.

[Novaya Havoc]

There's hundreds, hell... thousands of comic books out there. If you don't like his work, it's easy to avoid. It's really just that simple. I don't actively go out searching for work done by writers I dislike. I don't quickly snap up the latest Black Panther and foam at the mouth over it. I drop the books and move on to something I do enjoy. Noone is holding a gun to your head and forcing you to buy or read books you're not enjoying. Shame that so few people get that. If it's the collector mentality, best to break that now.

Yeah. But Exiles was a series with such pizzazz that really needed some new life by the end of Bedard's run. Claremont isn't doing it.

I'm not going to treat Exiles like a "Claremont book," just because he's writing it. Exiles isn't a "Claremont book" created by Claremont for Claremont ala NEX.

I'm not buying it. But that doesn't mean I am giving up on the series name and hook because now Claremont has infested it.

[Syzygy]

There's hundreds, hell... thousands of comic books out there. If you don't like his work, it's easy to avoid. It's really just that simple. I don't actively go out searching for work done by writers I dislike. I don't quickly snap up the latest Black Panther and foam at the mouth over it. I drop the books and move on to something I do enjoy. Noone is holding a gun to your head and forcing you to buy or read books you're not enjoying. Shame that so few people get that. If it's the collector mentality, best to break that now.

I keep hoping he'll improve, that I'll get that old Claremont feeling back again. I got it these past two issues of New Excalibur (Sage scenes excepted).

Hope springs eternal, as they say. Are you trying to kill hope, Beast?

[Faded]

This doesn't sound fun.

Though to be honest, I haven't enjoyed Exiles since Namora was offed.

Even before then, Mariko was like the Gertrude Yorkes of this title--its not the same without her.

As much as this book was about constantly changing lineups, I think the group dynamic this book once had was one of its primary jewels.

Not much to blame on Claremont except that he's not succeeding in reviving, in what my opinion is, a dying book.

[Jesse Newcomb]

I keep hoping he'll improve, that I'll get that old Claremont feeling back again. I got it these past two issues of New Excalibur (Sage scenes excepted).

Hope springs eternal, as they say. Are you trying to kill hope, Beast?

It has been what, seven years now? Maybe it's time to accept that CC is not gonna come back to his peak. The man's over sixty now, not exactly someone who is really hip with the times.

[Brian "Vash" Ashby]

This book needs a constantly changing lineup

and now that its stacked with known characters you wont get it

Gotta get Psylocke and Longshot out of there, because i'll never read exiles again if i can help it and they are 2 of my favs.

Gotta kill Aoa Blink and Faux AoA morph

Sabretooth can stay. Spiderman 2099 should go because 2099 is better just forgotten. Plus im not sure how a character from an alternative future can get into the exiles. Since that future hasnt happened yet, or whatever

Stack it with a broader range of characters. Bring in like Commrade America (soviets win cold war alternative reality) or like bronze man (world never developed iron)

etc.

[Phil Hunn]

There's hundreds, hell... thousands of comic books out there. If you don't like his work, it's easy to avoid.

I dropped this book for money reasons months before Claremont took over. And I'm glad I did, because I've been burned too much by Claremont recently.

I'm not going to treat Exiles like a "Claremont book," just because he's writing it. Exiles isn't a "Claremont book" created by Claremont for Claremont ala NEX.

This is true. It's not a pet project, it's an existing title that is in the process of being strangled.

It has been what, seven years now? Maybe it's time to accept that CC is not gonna come back to his peak. The man's over sixty now, not exactly someone who is really hip with the times.

Also true. You're not going to get realistic teenage dialogue out of somebody who's on the verge of collecting his pension.

[John Sage]

I dropped this book for money reasons months before Claremont took over. And I'm glad I did, because I've been burned too much by Claremont recently.



This is true. It's not a pet project, it's an existing title that is in the process of being strangled.

Since you just said you dropped the book before Claremont came onto the book, is your statement of "fact" based on what you hear on the internet?



Also true. You're not going to get realistic teenage dialogue out of somebody who's on the verge of collecting his pension.

So male creators shouldn't write any female characters either? Honestly!

[Jesse Newcomb]

So male creators shouldn't write any female characters either? Honestly!

No, he shouldn't write TEENAGE characters. Frankly, I don't think he should write at all. He's not the same guy we read in 1985, he didn't get better, he got worse.

[Nachturne]

When did Phil say his statements were fact?? :confused:

Shoving words in others mouth does not a point make ;)

[Beast]

They're comic books. You're not going to get realistic dialogue period. ;)

[Novaya Havoc]

This doesn't sound fun.

Though to be honest, I haven't enjoyed Exiles since Namora was offed.

Even before then, Mariko was like the Gertrude Yorkes of this title--its not the same without her.

As much as this book was about constantly changing lineups, I think the group dynamic this book once had was one of its primary jewels.

Not much to blame on Claremont except that he's not succeeding in reviving, in what my opinion is, a dying book.

Oh! don't make me think of Gertie! Mariko. :( Gertie. :( Noooo. :(

[Novaya Havoc]

They're comic books. You're not going to get realistic dialogue period. ;)

Not true!

See: "Holy Sucking Spit!" as an example of real dialogue. :D

Joke aside, Claremont cannot write young people. I am shocked that he knows what an iPod is, though.

[Phil Hunn]

Since you just said you dropped the book before Claremont came onto the book, is your statement of "fact" based on what you hear on the internet?

No, it's based on occasionally reading the book in the store and then having to pick my jaw up off the ground because it was so bad.

This first arc ticks all the boxes for your average Claremont title: a dominatrix bad-girl as the chief villain, mind-controlled heroes fighting their team-mates, clunky, sledgehammer-subtle dialogue, plot developments that require not just a small suspension of disbelief, but the attachment of anti-gravity thrusters to disbelief's underside, and bad guys with all the wit, charm and self-possession of a cracker.

So male creators shouldn't write any female characters either? Honestly!

Um... what?

Look, the fact of the matter is that somebody pushing 60 can't be expected to tap into the mindset of contemporary teenagers.

No, he shouldn't write TEENAGE characters. Frankly, I don't think he should write at all. He's not the same guy we read in 1985, he didn't get better, he got worse.

Well, him doing what he's chosen to do as a career isn't bad per se, but I think he should stay the hell away from mutant superheroes.

When did Phil say his statements were fact?? :confused:

Shoving words in others mouth does not a point make ;)

My statements are always fact. The sooner you peons learn this, the better :)

They're comic books. You're not going to get realistic dialogue period. ;)

That isn't true. Frank Cho writes realistic dialogue in freakin' Liberty Meadows (outside of the jokes, that is). Realistic dialogue is possible in comics.

[Brian "Vash" Ashby]

Claremont can write young people

See Mekanix

ALthough ignore the line Karma gave about admiring the view of a dude. Claremont wants everyone to be mostly bisexual.

[Novaya Havoc]

I heard Claremont is a quarter bi. His grandpa was bi, so that makes him a quarter bi!

Ha! South Park!

I miss this Exiles. :(

http://www.comicsvf.com/scans/vo/exiles/37.jpg

[Dagger]

Claremont can write young people

See Mekanix

ALthough ignore the line Karma gave about admiring the view of a dude. Claremont wants everyone to be mostly bisexual.
I love that mini. Too bad he had her pining for Kitty.:( She's no Storm:p

[Novaya Havoc]

I love that mini. Too bad he had her pining for Kitty.:( She's no Storm:p

Asian lesbians are #1! Ask Sunfire!

[Dagger]

Asian lesbians are #1! Ask Sunfire!
Shan and Sunfire 4 eva!

[xmanson]

Ha! South Park!

I miss this Exiles. :(

http://www.comicsvf.com/scans/vo/exiles/37.jpg

I really liked that artist (Mizuki something???).

The best artist the title ever had.

[Jesse Newcomb]

Claremont can write young people

See Mekanix

ALthough ignore the line Karma gave about admiring the view of a dude. Claremont wants everyone to be mostly bisexual.

The dialogue in the comic was really forced and dated even there. The only difference about Mekanix was that it had a coherent plot and Bobillo really carried the story with his fluid storytelling and could draw some convincing alien tech.

[dotdotdot]

its truly amazing to watch you guys let claremont get away with anything, and then try to give valid criticism on other titles.
to sum up: the guy's writing is terrible now, but remains appealing to those who want to read new back-issues from other decades. nostalgia.

[Frodo-X]

to sum up: the guy's writing is terrible now, but remains appealing to those who want to read new back-issues from other decades. nostalgia.

In your opinion.

Seriously, why is it so difficult for Claremont lovers and Claremont haters to grasp the fact that the other exists? I'm turning 24 next month, do you think I liked this arc because of nostalgia? You know, from when I was -10?

Realize that just because you think he's terrible does not make it so. You are not Pharoah. There is not a guy following you saying, "So it is written...So shall it be done." Just because you don't like it doesn't mean nobody can, and that those who do are simply old fools clinging to a long-forgotten era.

And for the Claremont lovers, know that he is human like any other writer, and that not every yarn he spins is pure 24K gold. And even if you think it is, someone else will think it's trash, and that does not mean they're stupid, or bashing, or baiting, or whatever else. It just means they didn't like it.

[Brian M.]

its truly amazing to watch you guys let claremont get away with anything, and then try to give valid criticism on other titles.
to sum up: the guy's writing is terrible now, but remains appealing to those who want to read new back-issues from other decades. nostalgia.

I love your close-minded arrogance. It's amazing.

[Phil Hunn]

In your opinion.

Seriously, why is it so difficult for Claremont lovers and Claremont haters to grasp the fact that the other exists?

I liked Mekanix. I liked Claremont's character-based work with Psylocke after she'd been resurrected (the stuff with X-23 following her around was cute), even though his turning her into an uber-warrior wasn't to my taste.

It's the procession of flat villains and Greatest Hits locations that really ticks me off.

Realize that just because you think he's terrible does not make it so. You are not Pharoah. There is not a guy following you saying, "So it is written...So shall it be done."

Actually, there is. His name is Akhmed, and he agrees with everything I say :)

[Syzygy]

Actually, there is. His name is Akhmed, and he agrees with everything I say :)

Can I borrow him for a while? It sounds like a great kick!:D

[DDM]

I liked Claremont's character-based work with Psylocke after she'd been resurrected (the stuff with X-23 following her around was cute), even though his turning her into an uber-warrior wasn't to my taste.


Chris Claremont had a definite story for Psylocke post-Lady Mandarin; she remained trapped in her new Asian form, yet Betsy clearly revels in her new status as the ultimate woman warrior. This leads to more mistakes since she has become addicted to the thrill of battle, an "action junkie." The X-Men believed Betsy is not completely free of the Hand's brainwashing; however, the truth is Wolverine is the ace for the Hand. He was not broken free from the Hand's brainwashing (given his mind already snapped & he was talking to delusions of Nick Fury & Carol Danvers). Psylocke's journey was going to lead to freeing Wolverine from the Hand after he had been turned against the X-Men.

Chris Claremont is still playing with the fact Betsy is an action junkie & she does not see this as a weakness, yet.

[Phil Hunn]

Chris Claremont had a definite story for Psylocke post-Lady Mandarin; she remained trapped in her new Asian form, yet Betsy clearly revels in her new status as the ultimate woman warrior.

Quite aside from the fact that "action junkie" has generally translated to "run at the bad guys in order to do a camel-toe-exposing high kick", the dramatic potential of Psylocke's situation was squandered from the get-go.

Look at what Nicieza did after he'd turned Abe Jenkins into a black guy in Thunderbolts - Abe got subjected to prejudice and unease, and he was utterly devastated by it. Betsy, on the other hand? She just shrugs her shoulders and nothing changes aside from the fact that she can now punch people in the face with impunity. Hell, the only reaction to her new status quo is Jean asking "It can't be fixed?", as if Betsy getting her face and body torn away from her is akin to nothing more than an ingrowing toenail or a case of heartburn.

As for her being an "ultimate warrior woman", Claremont's books are replete with that character archetype. I would have preferred it to have been absent in this case.

[Brian "Vash" Ashby]

Key difference is Betsy got exactly what she wanted. Why would she be all bummed out? She wouldnt.

Its refreshing to see a story like this that isnt just another "OMG what happened to meeeeeeee!!!"

[Beast]

Key difference is Betsy got exactly what she wanted. Why would she be all bummed out? She wouldnt.

Its refreshing to see a story like this that isnt just another "OMG what happened to meeeeeeee!!!"
Agreed. Haven't we been beaten over the head with hyper angst from characters.

[Phil Hunn]

Key difference is Betsy got exactly what she wanted. Why would she be all bummed out? She wouldnt.

Its refreshing to see a story like this that isnt just another "OMG what happened to meeeeeeee!!!"

But no reaction? At all? And then she goes right back to wearing the same costume that the Hand forced on her in order that she become their degraded woman-slave as if nothing had happened to her?

Sounds like she got dropped on her head more than once. Surely, surely, she'd have burned that wretched swimsuit as soon as she was freed from the Hand - just looking at it would be a reminder of that horrible invasion of her mind and body.

And frankly, the idea that nobody has ever racially abused her in her new form is, unfortunately, rather hard to swallow. Instead of her perpetually running at bad guys and trying to subdue them with her crotch, just having her learn to adjust to her new circumstances would have fit far better with whatever Claremont seemed to be trying to say about racial identity (a theme he revisited when Tom Corsi and Sharon Friedlander were turned into Native Americans).

Besides which, Betsy becoming Ninja Psylocke was another example of Claremont upgrading his non-physical female X-Men into super-awesome melee fighters (like the instant ninjafication of Kitty Pryde). Hell, even Jean Grey was throwing punches during the Revolution...

[Brian "Vash" Ashby]

But no reaction? At all? And then she goes right back to wearing the same costume that the Hand forced on her in order that she become their degraded woman-slave as if nothing had happened to her?

Sounds like she got dropped on her head more than once. Surely, surely, she'd have burned that wretched swimsuit as soon as she was freed from the Hand - just looking at it would be a reminder of that horrible invasion of her mind and body.

And frankly, the idea that nobody has ever racially abused her in her new form is, unfortunately, rather hard to swallow. Instead of her perpetually running at bad guys and trying to subdue them with her crotch, just having her learn to adjust to her new circumstances would have fit far better with whatever Claremont seemed to be trying to say about racial identity (a theme he revisited when Tom Corsi and Sharon Friedlander were turned into Native Americans).

Besides which, Betsy becoming Ninja Psylocke was another example of Claremont upgrading his non-physical female X-Men into super-awesome melee fighters (like the instant ninjafication of Kitty Pryde). Hell, even Jean Grey was throwing punches during the Revolution...

You know, for some reason people racially slurring a superhot asian woman doesnt really strike me as all that likely.

Plus the x-men are super insularly anyway.

As for her high kicking, that is her new situation. She's adjusting that way. Living the dream and all that.

Psylocke is a somewhat shallow character. I like that. Not every character needs to have layers upon layers of psychological stuff to be interesting.

[Phil Hunn]

You know, for some reason people racially slurring a superhot asian woman doesnt really strike me as all that likely.

If somebody doesn't like a certain racial group, I'd wager that attractiveness doesn't come into it.

[DDM]

But no reaction? At all? And then she goes right back to wearing the same costume that the Hand forced on her in order that she become their degraded woman-slave as if nothing had happened to her?

Chris Claremont had been building up with Psylocke's character that she is in fact a warrior such as when her flesh peeled away to find hard metal underneath in Uncanny X-Men Annual #11; Betsy's purple armor brought it home so she could be protected in battle.

Psylocke is hardly a "woman slave" unless you're specifically talking about Betsy being one of Mojo's slaves. Mojo kept Betsy's bionic eyes intact so he could monitor her every thought & see what she sees so he could make a profit. Mojo used Psylocke's bionic eyes as a means to transform Psylocke into the ultimate woman warrior, although the Hand erroneously believed they were the puppet masters...

Psylocke's may have been completely broken from the Hand's conditioning after the X-Men freed Wolverine; thus, she would be reverted back into her original Anglo-Saxon body. Or Psylocke may have kept her Asian form.

As I said before, Claremont was not done with Psylocke's story with the Hand.

[Phil Hunn]

Chris Claremont had been building up with Psylocke's character that she is in fact a warrior such as when her flesh peeled away to find hard metal underneath in Uncanny X-Men Annual #11; Betsy's purple armor brought it home so she could be protected in battle.

I got that. The lack of any emotional response other than "I can punch stuff now! Way cool!" is what annoyed me.

[zonzorp]

http://www.uloc.de/screenshots/c/cabf11_07_milhouse_isst_repressitol.jpg

[Lanowar]

It was alright but the thing I'm dreading is if Claremont drags this back to being another "X-title" it was for a while but in World Tour I personally started to see it shift away from that the team should not just be X-Men from other worlds at it's core. It should be characters from the Marvel Universe from other realities some new some classic ones.

It's not because Claremont's bad but it's the idea he's a X writer first and despite doing a decent FF run X-Men is the thing he does. I just hope he does'nt drag it back into the days of it beng a X book. Claremont's name alone should get sales experiment with the team roster and stories, just remember that there is a universe outside the X-Men.

[Phil Hunn]

http://www.uloc.de/screenshots/c/cabf11_07_milhouse_isst_repressitol.jpg

... the who with the what now?

It's not because Claremont's bad but it's the idea he's a X writer first and despite doing a decent FF run X-Men is the thing he does. I just hope he does'nt drag it back into the days of it beng a X book. Claremont's name alone should get sales experiment with the team roster and stories, just remember that there is a universe outside the X-Men.

I dunno, he did a fairly decent Alien VS Predator limited series back in the day. Even if the ending did go off the rails a bit.

[Brian M.]

You know maybe Claremont shouldn't take so freaking long to tell his stories.

All of this,"Claremont wasn't done telling his/her story" is getting kinda old.

[zonzorp]

... the who with the what now?
Oh bleah. It was supposed to be this:
http://img508.imageshack.us/img508/4521/repressitolzh4.jpg

[Phil Hunn]

You know maybe Claremont shouldn't take so freaking long to tell his stories.

All of this,"Claremont wasn't done telling his/her story" is getting kinda old.

Introducing a few less subplots might not go amiss, either.

As would NOT USING BLOODY MIND CONTROL EVERY FIVE MINUTES.

:mad: :mad: :mad:

Zod on a bicycle... you'd think his editors would have pointed out that it was being overused at this point, wouldn't you?

Oh bleah. It was supposed to be this:
http://img508.imageshack.us/img508/4521/repressitolzh4.jpg

Ah. That makes a lot more sense...

[Brian M.]

Introducing a few less subplots might not go amiss, either.

As would NOT USING BLOODY MIND CONTROL EVERY FIVE MINUTES.

:mad: :mad: :mad:

Zod on a bicycle... you'd think his editors would have pointed out that it was being overused at this point, wouldn't you?



Ah. That makes a lot more sense...

Don't you know? The editors want him to produce a bad comic and not sell...Marvel doesn't care about money, just ruining Claremont's legacy.

[Keith_Martineau]

Okay, I'm sorry. I love Claremont, I enjoyed some of his Uncanny run, I even liked his dual book 2000 run, and X-Treme. But this is getting laughable.

Say all you want about his use of Psylocke. Say all you want about his archtypal characters, and fitting certain people in to certain roles.
Say all you want about how he structures his stories.

There is no more telling sign of a problem with the way the man is telling his stories these days, than this...

One page, Slaymaster says "Savor these moments <pronoun>, for they will be your last!"

On the VERY NEXT PAGE right after yelling at Slaymaster to stop yapping---Sue Storm says "Savor these moments <pronoun>, for they will be your last!"

I mean, seriously? Two character, one page apart, saying the exact same menacing phrase? He can't get ANY more creative than that? Where is the editor to tell him that, you know, hey, yer getting a little repetitive?

Longshot also had the exact same "Guess I'm just lucky." Line from one issue to another.

It's increasingly becoming clearer and clearer to me that Mr. Claremont only knows how to tell his stories in a very specific, certain way, and it's degrading from using repetitive dialogue ticks into using the same damn lines of dialogue. And it's sad.

And I'm not going to try to make excuses or talk about his health or even say he's washed up.

But I don't see how anyone can defend that kind of horribly repetitive, sloppy writing.

[Novaya Havoc]

Okay, I'm sorry. I love Claremont, I enjoyed some of his Uncanny run, I even liked his dual book 2000 run, and X-Treme. But this is getting laughable.

Say all you want about his use of Psylocke. Say all you want about his archtypal characters, and fitting certain people in to certain roles.
Say all you want about how he structures his stories.

There is no more telling sign of a problem with the way the man is telling his stories these days, than this...

One page, Slaymaster says "Savor these moments <pronoun>, for they will be your last!"

On the VERY NEXT PAGE right after yelling at Slaymaster to stop yapping---Sue Storm says "Savor these moments <pronoun>, for they will be your last!"

I mean, seriously? Two character, one page apart, saying the exact same menacing phrase? He can't get ANY more creative than that? Where is the editor to tell him that, you know, hey, yer getting a little repetitive?

Longshot also had the exact same "Guess I'm just lucky." Line from one issue to another.

It's increasingly becoming clearer and clearer to me that Mr. Claremont only knows how to tell his stories in a very specific, certain way, and it's degrading from using repetitive dialogue ticks into using the same damn lines of dialogue. And it's sad.

And I'm not going to try to make excuses or talk about his health or even say he's washed up.

But I don't see how anyone can defend that kind of horribly repetitive, sloppy writing.


http://www.guardian.co.tt/archives/2004-12-25/Big-Hug-For-Santa.jpg

[Nachturne]

Keith...that's brilliant. I can't believe no one else picked up on that.

I'm also curious where the excuses are. They usually pop up far sooner...

[Beast]

Why make excuses for something that doesn't need them, that we genuinely enjoy. T'would be a bit silly.

[Pach!]

Why make excuses for something that doesn't need them, that we genuinely enjoy. T'would be a bit silly.

You enjoy getting the same lines thrown at you every issue? Apparently sometimes within the same issue? It wouldn't bother me so much if the line were actually something I thought was a cool line, not "guess I'm lucky" every 5 minutes.

[Jesse Newcomb]

Why make excuses for something that doesn't need them, that we genuinely enjoy. T'would be a bit silly.

It's your money and brain cells then.

But I just feel really bad for the Exiles fans who bought this book from the beginning and now are watching it getting cut with a machete slowly.......

[Nachturne]

Heh, well there has to be SOME reason that Claremont is recycling the same old tired plots and dialogue in every issue. Maybe it's the editors?? They take his brilliant scripts and rewrite them every month before sending them to the artist who draws things wrong and the colorist who color's everything incorrectly. ZOMG!

[Karl H]

It's your money and brain cells then.

But I just feel really bad for the Exiles fans who bought this book from the beginning and now are watching it getting cut with a machete slowly.......

thank you. I kind of had hope for the next arc. But it would appear that from the last couple of frames the long running never explained fully sub-plot is gonna be Psylocke focussed and Yawn(I mean Slay)master focussed. This is very similar to what Chris Claremont has always done and bores the sh1t out of me. I may actually consider dropping this book which would upset me a lot.

[Karl H]

Heh, well there has to be SOME reason that Claremont is recycling the same old tired plots and dialogue in every issue. Maybe it's the editors?? They take his brilliant scripts and rewrite them every month before sending them to the artist who draws things wrong and the colorist who color's everything incorrectly. ZOMG!

damn it girl you're right I'd never realised this. :(

[Brian M.]

It's your money and brain cells then.

But I just feel really bad for the Exiles fans who bought this book from the beginning and now are watching it getting cut with a machete slowly.......

Yea so you don't like the direction of the book...tell me again why that means you can be a rude to folks who do?

[Nachturne]

But I just feel really bad for the Exiles fans who bought this book from the beginning and now are watching it getting cut with a machete slowly.......

It does suck alot :(. Exiles was at one time my alltime favorite comic. It's so sad :(

[Beast]

thank you. I kind of had hope for the next arc. But it would appear that from the last couple of frames the long running never explained fully sub-plot is gonna be Psylocke focussed and Yawn(I mean Slay)master focussed. This is very similar to what Chris Claremont has always done and bores the sh1t out of me. I may actually consider dropping this book which would upset me a lot.
And Jeff Parker puts the Agents of Atlas in many of his stories.
Mike Carey is pushing Rogue and Beast into the spotlight, two of his favorite characters.

Every writer uses characters and settings they enjoy. To do otherwise is foolish. To expect otherwise is even more foolheardy. As for the focus on the Fantastic Four. Only Sue and Reed appeared in a Hydra focused story. Now we're getting the FF with Doom and Hulk as members. Weren't you guys the exact same people complaining that he was just going to turn it into an X-Men focused book when it was announced he was taking over. Especially when so many of you jumped up and down shouting that Madam Hydra was going to be Storm. You know the old saying, damned if you do... damned if you don't. ;)

[Beast]

Yea so you don't like the direction of the book...tell me again why that means you can be a rude to folks who do?
Did you honestly expect anything different from them?

[Keith_Martineau]

http://www.guardian.co.tt/archives/2004-12-25/Big-Hug-For-Santa.jpg

Don't hug me you creepy, creepy santa.

[Jesse Newcomb]

Yea so you don't like the direction of the book...tell me again why that means you can be a rude to folks who do?Or maybe you could explain to me why you're changing your tune about CC? Just last week, you were criticizing him like the majority of the folks here, now you've flip-flopped?:confused:

[Jesse Newcomb]

Don't hug me you creepy, creepy santa.

I think Novaya was referring you as Santa........:D

[Keith_Martineau]

Why make excuses for something that doesn't need them, that we genuinely enjoy. T'would be a bit silly.

Beast, after this long, yer one of a small group of posters whose opinions I respect so...

Yeah, no, there is no need to make excuses, we're buying a product, and we either like it or we don't...

But heavens I don't think it's ever been this bad. People have been making snide comments for years that over generalized the things Claremont was doing...only now it seems that he's actually matching the stupider things people used to accuse him of. Due to my erratic comics buying schedule, read 93 and 94 back to back....and my goodness things like that just jumped out at me.
And then the exact same line, from two different villains, one page apart...ONE of them delivered right after one villain BERATED the other for his yapping? I actually felt insulted as a reader.

The story itself was okay enough, and the Exiles mission, and it's conclusion were fairly...original FOR Exiles. They didn't succeed or fail, there was another outcome altogether. But the character arcs we're being provided, we've been provided before. By Claremont. And thats okay too so long as it's well done. Hell over in New Excalibur the stuff with Nocturne is QUITE different than what we normally see and I dig that.

But here, the execution was SO bad with the dialogue. It's really harming my ability to enjoy the stories good points.

[Brian M.]

Or maybe you could explain to me why you're changing your tune about CC? Just last week, you were criticizing him like the majority of the folks here, now you've flip-flopped?:confused:

But where in any of that am I bashing a poster who liking it?

[Keith_Martineau]

I think Novaya was referring you as Santa........:D

So he's the kid?
That isn't better.

[Beast]

Or maybe you could explain to me why you're changing your tune about CC? Just last week, you were criticizing him like the majority of the folks here, now you've flip-flopped?:confused:
Who said he's flip-flopped. He just actually respects the alternate viewpoint without rude snarking.

[Novaya Havoc]

Oh, Marys. Chill out.

[Nachturne]

And then the exact same line, from two different villains, one page apart...ONE of them delivered right after one villain BERATED the other for his yapping? I actually felt insulted as a reader.

Agreed. Typically I feel like he's almost TRYING to suck. Because..really...can you really do that as a writer and be proud? Either that or he's so arrogant to believe that anything he puts out will just be gobbled up by his oh so faithful followers, which..it appears he is not wrong. And that's kind of sad..

Why not instead of making excuses for every poor issue this man puts out, we demand better? HONESTLY does ANYONE TRULY believe that his work now is ANYWHERE close to how it once was. Or even anywhere close to what anyone else is putting out right now? If ANYONE had to chose ONE COMIC they could read monthly, would that comic be NEX or Exiles?? Out of all the comics being written today?? Seriously. We all know he can do better and just accepting this crap and making excuses for why it's not up to par is like throwing your money into a fire and hoping it'll be fireproof.


Hell over in New Excalibur the stuff with Nocturne is QUITE different than what we normally see and I dig that.


And here I was ready to marry you! GAH! Why why!!! Wedding OFF!

[Karl H]

And Jeff Parker puts the Agents of Atlas in many of his stories.
Mike Carey is pushing Rogue and Beast into the spotlight, two of his favorite characters.

Every writer uses characters and settings they enjoy. To do otherwise is foolish. To expect otherwise is even more foolheardy. As for the focus on the Fantastic Four. Only Sue and Reed appeared in a Hydra focused story. Now we're getting the FF with Doom and Hulk as members. Weren't you guys the exact same people complaining that he was just going to turn it into an X-Men focused book when it was announced he was taking over. Especially when so many of you jumped up and down shouting that Madam Hydra was going to be Storm. You know the old saying, damned if you do... damned if you don't. ;)


Don't band me as one of "you guys". That wasn't me - I've always enjoyed a more MU focus on Exiles. I actually enjoyed the last arc more than I expected - probably one of the better ones post-Winnick. I'm more annoyed that the final panel indicated us turning to another Betsy-Slaymaster battle.

I just find Psylocke and already complicated unnecessary addition to the X-verse and have thought this since I was 16 years old! And find the constant focus on her tedious.

Were I nit-picking, I would say that whilst CC gave good coverage to Sabertooth and Morph in this arc, they were definitely out of character and he hardly used Spidey, Longshot or Blink at all although I liked the idea of an evil Sue Storm - she has recurring villain potential and even a grey Reed Richards.

[Nachturne]

Don't band me as one of "you guys".

Please. Anyone who has even the slightest of a discenting view on CC's work is immediately written off as a basher, regardless of how valid their point is :rolleyes:. Therefor, for not immediately getting on your knees in the man's presence, you are one of "you guys". But you are in really good company ;).

[Beast]

Please. Anyone who has even the slightest of a discenting view on CC's work is immediately written off as a basher, regardless of how valid their point is :rolleyes:. Therefor, for not immediately getting on your knees in the man's presence, you are one of "you guys". But you are in really good company ;).
Wrong. There's a number of posters here that have discenting views on some of CC's work. Brian, formerly UTV would be one of them. Melonhead would actually be another. You know what the difference is, they offer their viewpoint and move on. They don't continue to post, making rude condescending comments to anyone who does enjoy it. So quit trying to play the victim. I was just noting there was a large majority that was complaining that he'd turn it into an X-Focused book. Which hasn't happened and doesn't appear to be happening.

[Nachturne]

Wrong. There's a number of posters here that have discenting views on some of CC's work. Brian, formerly UTV would be one of them. Melonhead would actually be another. You know what the difference is, they offer their viewpoint and move on. They don't continue to post, making rude condescending comments to anyone who does enjoy it. So quit trying to play the victim. I was just noting there was a large majority that was complaining that he'd turn it into an X-Focused book. Which hasn't happened and doesn't appear to be happening.

Don't you play the victim either, my dear. CC fans have been rude and condescending just as much as CC descenters. And regardless of any valid point I have ever made, I am thrown in the pit with the "basherzzz", which is very annoying. I don't see how me saying that we should expect more from a man who has done so well in the past is not a valid comment. I'm just so sick and tired of the CC brown noses who simply CAN NOT accept that PERHAPS! ZOMG! CC may not be as good as he was in his heyday!

[Beast]

Don't band me as one of "you guys". That wasn't me - I've always enjoyed a more MU focus on Exiles. I actually enjoyed the last arc more than I expected - probably one of the better ones post-Winnick. I'm more annoyed that the final panel indicated us turning to another Betsy-Slaymaster battle.

I just find Psylocke and already complicated unnecessary addition to the X-verse and have thought this since I was 16 years old! And find the constant focus on her tedious.

Were I nit-picking, I would say that whilst CC gave good coverage to Sabertooth and Morph in this arc, they were definitely out of character and he hardly used Spidey, Longshot or Blink at all although I liked the idea of an evil Sue Storm - she has recurring villain potential and even a grey Reed Richards.
The "You Guys" was more generally aimed. Not directed just at you. Plus I wasn't going to dig up a thread from months and months ago to check your reaction to CC coming on the title. I was just addressing various posters, but you were the one that I quoted. Mostly to note that CC's hardly the only writer who chooses to write characters that he enjoys whenever possible. Most writers do the same. Being forced to writer characters you don't like usually doesn't work out well. There are of course exceptions that prove the rule.

And granted, Psylocke isn't everyone's favorite character. She does have her fanbase, and I'm enjoying her here in the book. I'd rather she was in a book with characters she'd already had friendships and experience with... but she's a good addition so far without overpowering or taking over the book. In fact, like I said earlier... Sabretooth has done more this arc then he ever has previously. And Morph's back to actually being amusing, instead of dull. Not sure why you see them as out of character. They both fit their characters as established and as they were presented for ages. More closely than Bedard's versions of the pair did anyway.

[Karl H]

The "You Guys" was more generally aimed. Not directed at you. I was just addressing various posters, but you were the one that I quoted. Mostly to note that CC's hardly the only writer who chooses to write characters that he enjoys whenever possible. Most writers do the same. Being forced to writer characters you don't like usually doesn't work out well.

And granted, Psylocke isn't everyone's favorite character. She does have her fanbase, and I'm enjoying her here in the book. I'd rather she was in a book with characters she'd already had friendships and experience with... but she's a good addition so far without overpowering or taking over the book. In fact, like I said earlier... Sabretooth has done more this arc then he ever has previously. And Morph's back to actually being amusing, instead of dull. Not sure why you see them as out of character. They both fit their characters as established and as they were presented for ages. More closely than Bedard's versions of the pair did anyway.

Fair enough on the "you guys" point...

The Sabretooth/ Slaymaster fight is one of the best fights I've read in comics in a long time. Yes he's done more but, restoring Morph to his role as Sabretooth's number one fan and lackey I found a bit tedious. Unless of course, this is a sign of some kind of Proteus-based character evolution - unless I'm getting my hopes up unnecessarily.

[Beast]

Don't you play the victim either, my dear. CC fans have been rude and condescending just as much as CC descenters. And regardless of any valid point I have ever made, I am thrown in the pit with the "basherzzz", which is very annoying. I don't see how me saying that we should expect more from a man who has done so well in the past is not a valid comment. I'm just so sick and tired of the CC brown noses who simply CAN NOT accept that PERHAPS! ZOMG! CC may not be as good as he was in his heyday!
What's to accept. That's just your opinion. I certainly don't feel that way, and enjoy most of his current stuff as much or more than much of his classic stuff. So why should we accept something that we don't believe. Forcing beliefs on other people isn't cool.

[Nachturne]

We obviously have to agree to disagree about Exiles. I don't even care to talk abpout Psylocke or how far this title has fallen. I'm more interested in why people aren't holding CC accountable for the things that Keith quoted above. Even taking all of CC's plot crap and character inconsistencies aside, reusing the same phrases within issues and even pages of one another is just shoddy writing.

[Nachturne]

What's to accept. That's just your opinion. I certainly don't feel that way, and enjoy most of his current stuff as much or more than much of his classic stuff. So why should we accept something that we don't believe. Forcing beliefs on other people isn't cool.

I've never tried to force anything on anyone. I've tried to discuss but am hit with brick walls from people who simply can't accept that there are other opinions. I do not ask anyone to agree with me, but I think it is only fair they accept other opinions exist. Not accepting that is about the height of ignorance.

I don't have any issue with anyone liking or disliking this book. I do have a problem with discenters being written off as bashers and being condescended to with "facts" that are only backed by the fact that they are bolded as if bolding something immediately makes it 100% fact. Or bringing points into an argument that have nothing to do with the argument at hand, just to prove that CC is a good writer. That is not and never was up for debate. Everyone who has ever expressed displeasure with CC's work has admitted his old work was legendary. But obviously, we all hate him and just make stuff up because we want to take him down. It's a conspiracy, we are in cohoots with Marvel's editors to destroy CC!!!!! I love buying books I hate!!!

[Beast]

Fair enough on the "you guys" point...

The Sabretooth/ Slaymaster fight is one of the best fights I've read in comics in a long time. Yes he's done more but, restoring Morph to his role as Sabretooth's number one fan and lackey I found a bit tedious. Unless of course, this is a sign of some kind of Proteus-based character evolution - unless I'm getting my hopes up unnecessarily.
It's possible. After all, the brain-wash device is only making Proteus believe himself to be Morph. Proteus has access to Morph's psyche and memories, but if the HoM-Proteus works like the 616 did... he destroys the consciousness of his hosts. If the personality that's being shown is based on Proteus' view of Morph, it could account for how he's acting. Especially since Proteus saw Morph's humor as juvenile and annoying.

[Karl H]

It's possible. After all, the brain-wash device is only making Proteus believe himself to be Morph. Proteus has access to Morph's psyche and memories, but if the HoM-Proteus works like the 616 did... he destroys the consciousness of his hosts. If the personality that's being shown is based on Proteus' view of Morph, it could account for how he's acting. Especially since Proteus saw Morph's humor as juvenile and annoying.

That would make some sense. Personally I hope it's resolved fairly soon as Proteus as an all powerful villain ran its course for me under Bedard. Although a reformed Proteus could have interesting consequences - is it possible to have absolute power and end up incorruptible etc - and maybe start exploring that as a theme for the book as a whole, especially given the whole crystal palace situation and essentially the ability to look anywhere in the omniverse.

[Keith_Martineau]

And here I was ready to marry you! GAH! Why why!!! Wedding OFF!

What can I say.

I can't be a fan of Brian Michael Bendis and HIS particular style of writing---dialogue ticks, flaws---and all and not be able to recognize that every writer is different, has his different style and viewpoint and tools. I can't expect Chris Claremont to NOT be Chris Claremont. And I think that a lot of his bashers around here are kind of expecting him to not be Chris Claremont. They want him to write differently than he does---but he's always written that way. There have merely been times when it's better than others.

And as far as that goes, New Excalibur is pretty slow paced and as decompressed as anything anyone else puts out, but the story and execution are good enough that I wanna see what goes down next.

But here in Exiles, the flaws were SO pronounced that I can't see past them. I ain't gonna write him off---yet.

[Joe Acro]

And Jeff Parker puts the Agents of Atlas in many of his stories.
Mike Carey is pushing Rogue and Beast into the spotlight, two of his favorite characters.

Every writer uses characters and settings they enjoy. To do otherwise is foolish. To expect otherwise is even more foolheardy. I actually think it's foolish to do what you've mentioned, at least in some cases. I don't mind the first one as much, mostly because that team is his concept (though I do feel he shouldn't get a special just to showcase them in another title). The latter choice, though, does bug me. In a team mag, characters should be equally or close to equally represented. Andy Schmidt has noticed Carey's focus on Rogue and has stated he's like to see focus on other characters. I complain about Meltzer's focus on Red Arrow in Justice League of America.

Writers shouldn't be biased. They should tell the stories that make sense, in a way that makes sense, with what they have. I've developed stories for characters I don't particularly like simply because I think they'd be good stories. If writers want to tell stories focusing on a particular character within a team, they should get a mini or a character spotlight for that purpose. I would much prefer Claremont just get an "Adventures of Psylocke" title than make the star of Exiles, a title which traditionally had no stars, unless you count long-standing characters. Perhaps this won't be the case with the next arc. I certainly hope so. But as it is, Psylocke got more focus than Supergirl does in the Legion title that bears her name.

[Faded]

Yea so you don't like the direction of the book...tell me again why that means you can be a rude to folks who do?

Because the Lupine Avengers say so. :p

[Brian M.]

Because the Lupine Avengers say so. :p

That was a good idea, I need to copyright that before that lame ass Bendis steals it.

[Beast]

Because the Lupine Avengers say so. :p
*Just weeps on Faded for bringing that up*

[mimic_616]

The thing that really bothered me with this first arc was the fact that the Exiles had a time limit to their mission and if it was not met the crystal palace would erase the dimension. I mean wtf!?

Since when did the palace start erasing dimensions that weren't corrected? :confused:

[Ice_Cold_Emma_Frost]

Agreed. Typically I feel like he's almost TRYING to suck. Because..really...can you really do that as a writer and be proud? Either that or he's so arrogant to believe that anything he puts out will just be gobbled up by his oh so faithful followers, which..it appears he is not wrong. And that's kind of sad..

Why not instead of making excuses for every poor issue this man puts out, we demand better? HONESTLY does ANYONE TRULY believe that his work now is ANYWHERE close to how it once was. Or even anywhere close to what anyone else is putting out right now? If ANYONE had to chose ONE COMIC they could read monthly, would that comic be NEX or Exiles?? Out of all the comics being written today?? Seriously. We all know he can do better and just accepting this crap and making excuses for why it's not up to par is like throwing your money into a fire and hoping it'll be fireproof.


And here I was ready to marry you! GAH! Why why!!! Wedding OFF!

*Today the role of Sandra Oh in the Greys Anatomy finale will be played by Nachturne....ICEF will play Merideth Grey and help her undress*

His work now is NO WHERE near where he was, that's why he's been delinated to 3rd 4th tier books so that NOTHING he does interacts ANYWHERE in cannon.

What gets me is the CC fans that KNOW there's something wrong and even make small concessions like "well yes this was odd" but yet STILL act like its going to get better...like there's some big pay off at the end. And really it's like some giant anti-climax....it's never going to happen.

I mean christ:

"you're lovely"
"you're too kind"
*smashes face*

who the fuck writes that!?:mad:

[DDM]

The thing that really bothered me with this first arc was the fact that the Exiles had a time limit to their mission and if it was not met the crystal palace would erase the dimension. I mean wtf!?

Since when did the palace start erasing dimensions that weren't corrected? :confused:

There's a first time for everything. The time made the Exiles' decisions urgent & it did not give them a window whether to decide if its right or wrong. Given the dimension was not destroyed as per Heather's orders, it might lead to other problems down the line.

[Nachturne]

There's a first time for everything. The time made the Exiles' decisions urgent & it did not give them a window whether to decide if its right or wrong. Given the dimension was not destroyed as per Heather's orders, it might lead to other problems down the line.

Kind of like the Legacy planet, except that they didn't have a time limit. And also like Hyperion, but they didn't have a time limit.

And *kisses ICEF* I don't watch Grey's Anatomy, but I'm sure that's filthy :P

[Brian "Vash" Ashby]

We obviously have to agree to disagree about Exiles. I don't even care to talk abpout Psylocke or how far this title has fallen. I'm more interested in why people aren't holding CC accountable for the things that Keith quoted above. Even taking all of CC's plot crap and character inconsistencies aside, reusing the same phrases within issues and even pages of one another is just shoddy writing.

Hold him accountable?

Jesus christ. You act like he broke into your living room dressed as storm and beat your grandmother to death with a sock full of batteries.

He made a mistake. Who cares.

These things happen.

Grant Morrison gave sebastion shaw telepathy (was him right? I cant remember so much anymore because it really is insignificant) . Anyone who has ever read anyhting with him in it

Hell this whole thing might have been intentional, sort of goofing on the state of villains.

I cant tell.

I didnt read it

Doing dazzler reviews has taught me that there are generally huge mistakes in most comics if you look at the book long enough and with a eye looking for them (such as her name being mispelled throughout issue 2, a titanium tank hitting and stone statue and wrapping around it, hats appearing and disappearing from people, dazzler talking about being a mutant or her powers right next to a hot mic with a crowd of people looking at her) etc.

When people create, they are too close to the work, they cant see the flaws because it reads right to them

But let someone else look at it and they will be able to point them out

[Beast]

Hold him accountable?

Jesus christ. You act like he broke into your living room dressed as storm and beat your grandmother to death with a sock full of batteries.

He made a mistake. Who cares.

These things happen.

Grant Morrison gave sebastion shaw telepathy (was him right? I cant remember so much anymore because it really is insignificant) . Anyone who has ever read anyhting with him in it

Hell this whole thing might have been intentional, sort of goofing on the state of villains.

I cant tell.

I didnt read it

Doing dazzler reviews has taught me that there are generally huge mistakes in most comics if you look at the book long enough and with a eye looking for them (such as her name being mispelled throughout issue 2, a titanium tank hitting and stone statue and wrapping around it, hats appearing and disappearing from people, dazzler talking about being a mutant or her powers right next to a hot mic with a crowd of people looking at her) etc.

When people create, they are too close to the work, they cant see the flaws because it reads right to them

But let someone else look at it and they will be able to point them out
I've never wanted so much to have my way with you as I do now.

[xmanson]

Just re-read the first half again and this Susan Storm is fierce!!!!!

And Nachturne is just angry becuase she can't have CC in her bed. So obvious.

[Phil Hunn]

Don't you know? The editors want him to produce a bad comic and not sell...Marvel doesn't care about money, just ruining Claremont's legacy.

By George, I think he's got it.

One page, Slaymaster says "Savor these moments <pronoun>, for they will be your last!"

On the VERY NEXT PAGE right after yelling at Slaymaster to stop yapping---Sue Storm says "Savor these moments <pronoun>, for they will be your last!"

I mean, seriously? Two character, one page apart, saying the exact same menacing phrase? He can't get ANY more creative than that? Where is the editor to tell him that, you know, hey, yer getting a little repetitive?

Seriously? Oh, man. That is bloody terrible however you slice it

Grant Morrison gave sebastion shaw telepathy (was him right?

Yep, and he actually acknowledged he'd fucked up shortly after the issue in question was published. Mind you, that can be explained easily enough - he was surrounded by psychic strippers, so they could have simply relayed the information to him themselves.

[Syzygy]

The thing that really bothered me with this first arc was the fact that the Exiles had a time limit to their mission and if it was not met the crystal palace would erase the dimension. I mean wtf!?

Since when did the palace start erasing dimensions that weren't corrected? :confused:

I too was confused by this. I thought only Roma had the tech to "erase" dimensions.

Meanwhile, the whole idea of erasing a dimension because Sue Storm has turned bad is rather illogical. Wouldn't Galactus or the Stranger be aware that their universe might be erased and instead kill Sue Storm themselves?:confused: Certainly they're capable of it.

Very poorly thought. And it's not just CC's fault. Why aren't the editors catching these things? Are they amatuers?

Perhaps Marvel should recruit a few editors from the Board here....

[xmanson]

What happened in the beggining of the series if the Exiles failed their mission? Can't remember...

[Novaya Havoc]

What happened in the beggining of the series if the Exiles failed their mission? Can't remember...

They go back to their "broken world" with the severe consequences.

[DDM]

They go back to their "broken world" with the severe consequences.

What are some examples of "severe consequences?"

[Novaya Havoc]

What are some examples of "severe consequences?"

Blink: never been born.
Mimic: in prison on death row
Mariko: instead of flame she emits uncontrollable, deathly radiation
Morph: turned into unstable molecule goo and sits in a test beaker
Nocturne: Nightcrawler was killed by Mystique when TJ was young
Magnus: Eh, I forget.

I don't remember the other characters. I think T-Bird remained a slave of Apocalypse.

That's the whole impetus for them being unhinged from time, and why they need to correct the broken links to go home. I dunno if the bugs affected this.

[xmanson]

They go back to their "broken world" with the severe consequences.

That part I rmemeber, they even siad what exactly what was gonna happen to them. But what aboput the dimsnion they had to "save"? if they failed, it was only they who had to lost? Not so much about heroism, but saving their own asses, I guess. Which is ok.

[Nachturne]

That part I rmemeber, they even siad what exactly what was gonna happen to them. But what aboput the dimsnion they had to "save"? if they failed, it was only they who had to lost? Not so much about heroism, but saving their own asses, I guess. Which is ok.

If they failed in that dimension, there'd be another team formed to do it. IIRC, they there had been mentioned other teams (other than Weapon X). I could be wrong. Or I think if they failed, that universe was destroyed as to not destroy the "multiverse".

And seriously guys.... Yeah, I want Claremont SO bad, but turns out he won't be with anyone who won't totally dominate him and claim to be a goddess. I wouldn't dye my hair purple and speak in binary. He wasn't interested.

And guess what. If a writer does stupid things in writing, yeah they should be held responsible for what they wrote. If the work is good, little things can be overlooked. If not, it all piles up on top of that piece of crap. See, I guess being an artist, and expecting something from this, I am wrong. BANG BANG LASERZZZZ OMG THATS SO GOOD!

[Novaya Havoc]

Speaking in binary. LOLOL.

[xmanson]

If they failed in that dimension, there'd be another team formed to do it. IIRC, they there had been mentioned other teams (other than Weapon X). I could be wrong. Or I think if they failed, that universe was destroyed as to not destroy the "multiverse".

Which was the case in this arc...

I gotta admit my memory about the concept of the title, how it all worked in the beggining and how it all changed and what the real truth during the time we find out about the Crystal Palace was is kinda fuzzy.

[Nachturne]

The crystal palace was super lame. I miss the timebroker :(

[Beast]

Of course we've already been told that the bugs made up those consiquences to ensure that the specific chosen individuals would serve their purpose. So even that hanging over their heads has been wiped away.

[Novaya Havoc]

Of course we've already been told that the bugs made up those consiquences to ensure that the specific chosen individuals would serve their purpose. So even that hanging over their heads has been wiped away.

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b41/havoc1/Dazzler/hearttttttt.jpg

[streator]

Of course we've already been told that the bugs made up those consiquences to ensure that the specific chosen individuals would serve their purpose. So even that hanging over their heads has been wiped away.

i hate being a spelling nazi but i've never seen anyone spell consequence wrong like that. it's only one letter but it almost makes it look like a different word or something to me.

[Beast]

i hate being a spelling nazi but i've never seen anyone spell consequence wrong like that. it's only one letter but it almost makes it look like a different word or something to me.
If you hate being a spelling nazi, then why are you? ;)

Eh, I'm half asleep and I don't bother spell-checking for a freakin' online messageboard. Deal. :p

[Novaya Havoc]

for a freakin' online messageboard.

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b41/havoc1/misc/beastpostcount.jpg

[Beast]

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b41/havoc1/misc/beastpostcount.jpg
Your point?

Just cause I enjoy posting here, doesn't make it anything more than a freakin' message board.

It's not like I'm being graded for my spelling and punctuation. It's supposed to be fun.

As long as people can understand what I'm posting, that's all that matters.

At least I'm not decending into Leet Speak that makes me want to bludgeon people.

[streator]

If you hate being a spelling nazi, then why are you? ;)

Eh, I'm half asleep and I don't bother spell-checking for a freakin' online messageboard. Deal. :p

i apologise, and i wasn't trying to make a big deal out of it or anything. just something i noticed that i hadn't seen before.

[Beast]

i apologise, and i wasn't trying to make a big deal out of it or anything. just something i noticed that i hadn't seen before.
No worries. Like I said, I'm half asleep and don't bother to spell check for just casual posting/chatting.

[Novaya Havoc]

At least I'm not decending into Leet Speak that makes me want to bludgeon people.

Leet? What is Leet?

DO YOU MEAN 1337??!?

[Tommy]

Leet? What is Leet?

DO YOU MEAN 1337??!?

lee7 5peeK? 1 D0'N7 kN0W wh47 j00 r 74lk1N9 480U7?

[Novaya Havoc]

lee7 5peeK? 1 D0'N7 kN0W wh47 j00 r 74lk1N9 480U7?

<activates Sage filter>

http://vs.tcgplayer.com/db/cards/2545.jpg

PROGRAM SAGE
TRANSLATION:

"Elite Internet language codes? I do not know what you are talking about."

</end Sage filter>

[Tommy]

<activates Sage filter>

http://vs.tcgplayer.com/db/cards/2545.jpg

PROGRAM SAGE
TRANSLATION:

"Elite Internet language codes? I do not know what you are talking about."

</end Sage filter>

Curses! I should have known Sage was fluent in L33t, along with binary, Elvish, Klingon, and what ever the hell Paula Abdul speaks on American Idol.

FOILED AGAIN BY SAGE!

[Jesse Newcomb]

Your point?

Just cause I enjoy posting here, doesn't make it anything more than a freakin' message board.

It's not like I'm being graded for my spelling and punctuation. It's supposed to be fun.

As long as people can understand what I'm posting, that's all that matters.

At least I'm not decending into Leet Speak that makes me want to bludgeon people.
Nothing is wrong to just owning up to a simple spelling mistake, but it is a little incredible not to expect people to take you at face value when you say it's just a messageboard when you are in second place for most posts made. Just be gracious and take your medicine and accept your flaws.