JLA/JSA The Lightning Saga part 3 spoilers and Discussion

[Karl O'Neill]

While Mr. Terrific and Black Canary examine the Bat-Belt that popped out of Wildfire, Dr. Mid-Nite examines Dreamgirl...No, not that way. The Bat-Belt is revealed to have nothing special to it.
-Wildcat III, Vixen, Flash and Green Lantern visit Gorilla City following the signal to a Legion Flight Ring. The four arrive in time for a naming ceremony for a new born gorilla, a White Gorilla. The four come across Timberwolf and set his mind free.
-Powergirl, Hawkman, Hawkgirl and Red Arrow travel to Thanagar following the signal of a Legion Flight Ring. Powergirl reveals to Roy that she knows why he accompanied them and to be careful. She then reveals that she and Hawkman had a thing.
-Metropolis in the future, three shadow forms are looking down on the body of the female Ultra-Humanite that is missing the top of her head. When one asks why they had to come a thousand years into the future, the response is that “this was the height of his power. His future. Plus the technology”. The three are then revealed to be Per Degaton, Ultra-Humanite in his white gorilla form and Despero.
-Back on Thanagar the four track the signal to who they believe to be Dawnstar but find out that it is just a lady that Dawnstar gave her flight ring to saying that she would be back for her.
-Timberwolf arrives back at the Hall and meets up with the other Legionnaires. He walks over to the Bat-Belt and pops off the canisters from the side and hands them to the others and reveals mini lightening rods. Dawnstar then arrives and is brought out of her trance. She then tells the others that “we’re here to save him aren’t we? I know where we have to go”.

[wes_rk]

I tried not to read it, but I ended up reading a few lines, nothing much. I can't wait for this tomorrow.

[Hawkman]

All right, I couldn't help myself because of the Hawks involvement in this issue, and while I can't get my hands on the issue itself, I've been reading spoilers all afternoon.:evilsmile

Now, I need someone to confirm some stuff for me, please. When Peege reveals that she and Carter had a thing, is it stated that Carter immediately told her no, and she's therefore warning Roy that the same thing will happen with he and Kendra? If so, then I'm totally fine with that, and actually love the idea of Carter and Kara together in the midst of a Hawkgirl/Red Arrow thing. It definitely beats the alternative of a lone Hawkman pining away in solitude while Kendra is off with Roy.

But, if it's implied that Carter was with Kara and had no qualms whatsoever, then (to quote an entertaining DS game) I object! Carter will act the jerk on occasion, sure, but certainly not in regards to his romantic situation with Kendra. I've no problem with the Kendra/Roy fling, but if Meltzer is implying that Carter gave up on Kendra first, then I just can't buy that, and will be very upset if this is indeed the case.

Okay, that's all. Issue sounds awesome and I'm desperately calling around to try and get my hands on it. And yes, that would mean that I'll end up buying it twice since it will be in my pull box tomorrow, but I don't care. The Hawks are in it, dammit!:D

[Mon-el]

I hate to respond to a comic I haven't read yet, but due to my mother passing away last week, as I am dealing with a lot of problems. It will be some time before I get to read this issue.

I am having a theory that this is a twist on Adventure Comics #312 "The Super-Sacrifice of the Legionnaires" story, due to the mini Lightning rods, Dream Girl saying that 1 legionnaire is going to die from JSA. The word Lightning Lad in interlac being the trigger to snap out of the trance.

Anyone else getting the same impression?

[CMBMOOL]

I hate to respond to a comic I haven't read yet, but due to my mother passing away last week, as I am dealing with a lot of problems. It will be some time before I get to read this issue.

I am having a theory that this is a twist on Adventure Comics #312 "The Super-Sacrifice of the Legionnaires" story, due to the mini Lightning rods, Dream Girl saying that 1 legionnaire is going to die from JSA. The word Lightning Lad in interlac being the trigger to snap out of the trance.

Anyone else getting the same impression?

First off, I'm so sorry for your mother passing away, you have my sympathy. :(

Second, good theory, but who were the villains during that story ? :confused:

[drwho]

The pace was better in this issue plus the dialog was a much more enjoyable read. Some sort of mission is shaping up here. I'm still not excited about these legion folks. At the end of this issue I got a village of the demand freakiness feeling about them. I did find it interesting hearing about the PG and Hawkman relationship as well as Roy want to hook up with Hawkgirl. This issue was better than earlier issues in this series.

[Mon-el]

First off, I'm so sorry for your mother passing away, you have my sympathy. :(


Thank you very much. That is most kind of you to say.

Second, good theory, but who were the villains during that story ? :confused:

Actually their was no villians in that story. It was about the legionnaires finding a way to bring Lightning Lad back from the dead. It was how Mon-El and Superboy exploring the galaxy to try to revive LL. Ultimately Mon-El found only one solution in order to do it. They each held a lighting rod and that would drain the life force from one of them to bring him back. Proty disguised himself as Saturn Girl and gave his life to save Lighting Lad.

[Gottaluvit]

All right, I couldn't help myself because of the Hawks involvement in this issue, and while I can't get my hands on the issue itself, I've been reading spoilers all afternoon.:evilsmile

Now, I need someone to confirm some stuff for me, please. When Peege reveals that she and Carter had a thing, is it stated that Carter immediately told her no, and she's therefore warning Roy that the same thing will happen with he and Kendra? If so, then I'm totally fine with that, and actually love the idea of Carter and Kara together in the midst of a Hawkgirl/Red Arrow thing. It definitely beats the alternative of a lone Hawkman pining away in solitude while Kendra is off with Roy.

But, if it's implied that Carter was with Kara and had no qualms whatsoever, then (to quote an entertaining DS game) I object! Carter will act the jerk on occasion, sure, but certainly not in regards to his romantic situation with Kendra. I've no problem with the Kendra/Roy fling, but if Meltzer is implying that Carter gave up on Kendra first, then I just can't buy that, and will be very upset if this is indeed the case.

Okay, that's all. Issue sounds awesome and I'm desperately calling around to try and get my hands on it. And yes, that would mean that I'll end up buying it twice since it will be in my pull box tomorrow, but I don't care. The Hawks are in it, dammit!:D

From my interpretation Carter at some stage said 'No' to whatver was between him and PG which was why she was warning Roy to be careful, that inevitably no matter what happens Kendra will eventually say 'no' just as Carter did to Kara, and Roy will end up hurt.

The thing to remember is that whatever is written in the JLA part of the crossover has to have been approved by Geoff Johns as well so whatever Brad is imlying Geoff is also. Geaoff mentioned he likes what Brad did in this issue so whatever happens or is implied to have happened will no doubt play out in future JSA and JLA story arcs after the crossover.

I got the feeling from some of the inner monologue in this issue that Roy isn't just attracted on a surface level to Kendra which is his common m.o with good looking women, little comments like the one about 'just because you have found someone you truely love doesn't mean you can't find another' seemed to have double meanings. I really hope not, its one thing to play the Hawk, Arrow connection along by getting Roy and Kendra involved on a surface level--just to stir the pot so to speak, but I'm not sure that it should go any deeper then them conecting as a couple of mutally attracted adults haveing some fun together.

[wes_rk]

A lot of stuff happening here, it read like it was 50 pages, amazing issue.
Who do you think the legion is here to save?

[ultramandingo]

.......monkeys Riding Dinosaurs!!!!!!!!!!

[Mia]

I got the feeling from some of the inner monologue in this issue that Roy isn't just attracted on a surface level to Kendra which is his common m.o with good looking women, little comments like the one about 'just because you have found someone you truely love doesn't mean you can't find another' seemed to have double meanings. I really hope not, its one thing to play the Hawk, Arrow connection along by getting Roy and Kendra involved on a surface level--just to stir the pot so to speak, but I'm not sure that it should go any deeper then them conecting as a couple of mutally attracted adults haveing some fun together.

You know, when I heard that Arsenal was being added to the team I immediately told my dealer to drop it from my pull list. But being bored the other day and looking for something to read I bought the first six issues. And really Roy comes across better here than he does written by Winnick. Winnick writes him as a sleazy pig. But Melzer's actually writing him as decent human being. I like his interaction with Kendra. It's really nice.

[Cayman]

I can forgive any flaws this issue has for that fabulous Gorillamen Raptor Race.

When will the JLA finally get a super gorilla member?

[Hawkman]

Thanks a lot, Gottaluvit. I managed to track the issue down and read it myself just now. Had to drive 20-minutes each way, but it was worth it. No real action between the pages, but it still managed to be a pretty entertaining issue.

As for the whole Carter/Kendra/Kara/Roy think, I still don't know what to think. Since when was Peege ever on Thanagar during the reconstruction? While I'm not opposed to Carter and she having a fling of their own perse, it feels both forced and rushed here, as if Brad is trying to give Kendra a reason to tell Carter to take a hike if and when she eventually finds out. And on another note, even though two Lanterns were working on it, the city itself nevertheless felt a bit too sprawling to me.

Back to the Hawks, though, and concerning Roy's inner-monologue; I'm sorry, but when did he get so prolific? And I hate to break it to Meltzer, but the whole reincarnated lovers angle is a huge part of this version of the Hawks, not to mention the characters romantic involvement together has almost always been a staple. Why should Carter try to find someone else when the true essence of the person he's always loved is standing right beside him?

I've no problems with other relationship avenues being explored -- the drama is what keeps it interesting -- but I hope Meltzer and Johns don't go overboard and somehow try to make this impending break-up permanent. Honestly, I'm worried about what's going to take place in Hawkgirl #66 now. Like they both know something I don't, and that a permanent split is exactly where we're heading. That would be a huge mistake, in my opinion.

But enough with my blathering. Regarding all the other stuff, it keeps getting more and more intriguing to me. What is Ultra-Humanite up to? How does the Legion play into it? Much like the initial arc of this Justice League run, I'm getting the impression that some elements are going to be played backwards here. As Roy implied, usually you get your fist-fight misunderstanding first when team-ups like this occur. Looks like we may just end up with that taking place last here instead. And how cool could that be? The Legion versus the JLA and the JSA...

Anywho, I wasn't sure how I was going to like this issue from all the spoilers I read, but I ended up digging it very much. Still a bit plodding in the pacing, but solid overall. I'll re-read it at least two more times before the next JSA issue hits. Looking forward to that all the more now.

[Gottaluvit]

You know, when I heard that Arsenal was being added to the team I immediately told my dealer to drop it from my pull list. But being bored the other day and looking for something to read I bought the first six issues. And really Roy comes across better here than he does written by Winnick. Winnick writes him as a sleazy pig. But Melzer's actually writing him as decent human being. I like his interaction with Kendra. It's really nice.

I totally agree with you. Winick's characterizations of Roy is very much his own, which is something he tends to do when writing establised characters. I can't deny that Roy has always been a flirt, I quess no one could be raised by Oliver Queen and not learn a thing or two about flirting, but anyone who has followed the character for a lenthy time would be able to see the distinct difference between the character who was a bit of a flirt, loved women but treated them respectfully (He really only has 'loved' two women and both of those really sucked in their treatment of him IMO--though to be fair Donna was totally written out of character when she dropped Roy the way she did) and the character who bedded anything that cast an approving eye his way. The Arsenal that lead the New Titans for around 30 issues and made no real attempt to bed the women under his command is not the character Judd wrote. Devin Grayson really was the one to set the ball rolling there though, Judd just picked it up a notch.

Brad seems to have toned that down almost to New Titans levels, yet still manages to show the character as young and fun--Marv Wolfman tended to write him much older and more serious when he had him leading the titans I.M.O ayway. I'm enjoying the way he is being written and as a bonus..unlike Judd, Brad hasn't had Lian kidnapped or Roy shot, based, slashed, kidnapped himself or tricked like some rookie for quick and easy drama--of course issue 11 may change that significantly. *grin*

[spidervenom]

I hope it leads to a legion vs jla and jsa fight that be great. I am a little confused on how ultra humanite is involved and I also want to know what the legion has with countdown and the new multiverse.

[Beast]

I can forgive any flaws this issue has for that fabulous Gorillamen Raptor Race.

When will the JLA finally get a super gorilla member?
They should recruit Sam Simeon. That would ensure I'd pick up the book. :D

[TheCrisisKid]

I thought the reason Ultra-Humanite was brought into the picture was because the extra special ape that was born was actually him in the past (thus both being white in fur).

[Cayman]

Does anyone know if this is the first time the word "testicles" has appeared in a Justice League comic? Anyone? Kurt Busiek?

[The Lucky One]

.......monkeys Riding Dinosaurs!!!!!!!!!!

I had to check the credits twice to make sure Frank Cho wasn't guest-writing.

-D

[ultramandingo]

Does anyone know if this is the first time the word "testicles" has appeared in a Justice League comic? Anyone? Kurt Busiek?

......wasnt there a dr testicles or was it testicle-o?

[Hawkman]

In case anyone's curious, the translated title to this issue is "Suicide." Yeah, I had that much time on my hands.;)

Also, a point I forgot to mention in my last post; DC's apparant planning ahead for another Crisis in future. Not exactly surprising, but decent foresight all the same to include it in the dialogue.

Oh, and one last thing, I swear. Just wanted to give Meltzer a positive nod for acknowledging Carter's strategic mind. I really got a kick out of the fact that he was the one who advised Peege to take on Karate Kid should it come to that. Also enjoyed his "time-travel" speech on the same page. Both subltle but effective ways of capturing two different, often neglected aspects of his character, I thought.

[titanfan]

I got the feeling from some of the inner monologue in this issue that Roy isn't just attracted on a surface level to Kendra which is his common m.o with good looking women, little comments like the one about 'just because you have found someone you truely love doesn't mean you can't find another' seemed to have double meanings.

Wasn't the double meaning referring to Dawnstar finding a new lover while on Thanagar? I also had to laugh to myself at her powers working, whenever I read a back issue of that version's Legion, Dawnstar's powers never seem to work.

I'm enjoying the character moments, but I'm getting to the point where I wanna see a big fight. Hopefully it's coming in the last next two issues.

[Thnikkaman]

OK, was anyone else thinking, around p. 17, "Hey, since when was Sylar a DC villain?"

[Matthew E]

And how cool could that be? The Legion versus the JLA and the JSA...

No, no. That would not be the coolest thing. See, Legionnaires aren't the most powerful superheroes around, and this group of seven aren't the most powerful seven Legionnaires (Karate Kid, Dream Girl and Dawnstar, for instance, are quite useful in a fight but not much more so than regular human beings). Plus, they're outnumbered by either the JLA or JSA alone, and both the JLA and JSA have some very heavy hitters on their rosters. So the coolest thing would be for the Legion's secret mission to be something that the JLA and JSA violently disagree on, so the two groups have to fight each other as well as both fighting the Legion, and presumably also dealing with the villains. Now there you could have something.

[Cayman]

......wasnt there a dr testicles or was it testicle-o?

If there wasn't, there should be.

I'm fuzzy on it, but I seem to remember a Crisis On Earth Testicle, perhaps in the 70s.

[Karl O'Neill]

OK, was anyone else thinking, around p. 17, "Hey, since when was Sylar a DC villain?"

could have been just a Reference.

[Bing Shalimar]

So what do people think about the old version of Despero showing up?

Does this mean that this version of Despero has come from the past?

Or did he just get tired of being so bulky?

I myself prefer the more recent Despero. He's much more menacing.

[Hawkman]

So the coolest thing would be for the Legion's secret mission to be something that the JLA and JSA violently disagree on, so the two groups have to fight each other as well as both fighting the Legion, and presumably also dealing with the villains. Now there you could have something.
Hey, however it goes down, I just hope it goes down. This saga is begging for a good ol' knockdown, drag-out fight. Once again, it's been good so far, but Meltzer's glaring fault since he started Justice League is his seeming apprehension to write action. I just want a great payoff to all the set-up this time.

[Gottaluvit]

Wasn't the double meaning referring to Dawnstar finding a new lover while on Thanagar? I also had to laugh to myself at her powers working, whenever I read a back issue of that version's Legion, Dawnstar's powers never seem to work.

I'm enjoying the character moments, but I'm getting to the point where I wanna see a big fight. Hopefully it's coming in the last next two issues.


I got the Dawnstar meaning behind the comment, but I felt there was a double meaning behind it aimed more at Kendra and Carter, especially after the earlier Romeo and Juliet comment (stay away from the Capulets) and some comments Brad made on a recent interveiw.

Initially I was interested to see how things unfolded between Roy and Kendra, but now it just feels forced and odd so I'm not really liking the idea anymore. Seems like Brad is pushing them together so they are established as a pair when the new writer comes on board.

[titanfan]

I got the Dawnstar meaning behind the comment, but I felt there was a double meaning behind it aimed more at Kendra and Carter, especially after the earlier Romeo and Juliet comment (stay away from the Capulets) and some comments Brad made on a recent interveiw.

Ah, I thought you got the Kendra/Carter one and not the other. Roy was the one narrating--so at this point we're supposed to read that he's hopeful, but.....(I see your point)

[van_line]

my issue with the issue:

why would kendra be stuck with carrying Roy? why not PG?


also don't you think the big swerve ending will be they aren't saving LL but actually saving Barry Allen?

[Shellhead]

my issue with the issue:

why would kendra be stuck with carrying Roy? why not PG?


also don't you think the big swerve ending will be they aren't saving LL but actually saving Barry Allen?

Kendra has to carry Roy, because Meltzar is very obsessed with Roy and wants to set him up with Kendra.

As for Barry Allen, he might as well come back. All the other major deaths have been reversed by now, including Bucky Barnes (killed in retcon by Stan Lee in the early 60's) and Jason Todd (DC fans voted for him to die).

[PastePotPete]

Ultra-Humanite is mainly a JSA villain, right? Despero I recognize from Justice League stories.

Who's this other bad guy? I'll assume he's a Legion villain?

[Xanrn]

So do Cheetahs run really fast around Gorilla City or something.

Cause they move at 60 mph not 600.

[CMBMOOL]

So does this issue explain why the Legion had Batman ultitely belt ? :confused:


Also I'm confuse by how the Lighting Rods can repower Lighting lad ?


Plus with the mention of the "Middle Crisis," the Legion must be meaning the Infinite Crisis, so what we are currently Countdown to must be the Last Crisis ?

[Slumber Hulk]

Whats the translation for that secret power word that wakes them up?

[Matthew E]

Ultra-Humanite is mainly a JSA villain, right? Despero I recognize from Justice League stories.

Who's this other bad guy? I'll assume he's a Legion villain?

The other guy is Per Degaton, an old JSA villain. His gimmick was traveling through time and messing with history so that he'd eventually become dictator of everything. He was the villain in the first arc of the old All-Star Squadron comic.

[Hawkman]

Initially I was interested to see how things unfolded between Roy and Kendra, but now it just feels forced and odd so I'm not really liking the idea anymore. Seems like Brad is pushing them together so they are established as a pair when the new writer comes on board.

Have to agree with you. I was intrigued by the notion at first, but the way it's being carried out just isn't holding much water for me. Peege on Thanagar with Carter came completely out of the blue, and seems as if it's only going to be used as a catalyst for Kendra and Roy to hook up. Not fair to either Hawkman or Power Girl as characters, in my opinion.

Since this HG/RA thing seemed inevitable from the get-go anway, though, I would have rather seen Kendra slowly warming up to Roy first, then have Peege consoling Carter later on in a future JSA issue. Relationship ensues from there. I suppose it could still go down like this, considering Carter initially pushed Karen away, but the whole Thanagar thing will still bother me. I just don't know how or when the heck she wound up there with him, let alone how quickly she would have to have managed to fall for him. I actually think they're a sensible pairing, both being strong-willed individuals, but I never felt any sort of romantic rapport between them before. And frankly, I still don't.

At this point, the whole thing just comes across as being both very rushed and, as you said, forced. Not just between Kendra and Roy, but now between Carter and Peege as well. And considering his plodding way of storytelling, I don't believe Meltzer can rectify that before he's done. It's probably going to be up to Johns and whoever takes over for Brad to make this work for me, and honestly, I'd just assume a return to the status quo of Hawkman and Hawkgirl.

[Hawkman]

So do Cheetahs run really fast around Gorilla City or something.

Cause they move at 60 mph not 600.

True, but Vixen said she felt "really good," and the gorillas noted that she had "the glow." Obviously the nature of the city is somehow boosting her powers, but I've no idea why.

[Suzanne]

Wow! I was not expecting Carter and Powergirl getting together. I'd like to see how this started and the extent of it. Although I think this is an interesting curve ball (and that they do make a nice couple), I can understand where our Hawkman's coming from. Carter's not the cheating type, and I haven't seen any clue from PG that she wanted him prior to this.

Also, I didn't know that much about the Legion, but I'm intrigued by their story. The purple-clad chick on Thanagar was Dawnstar's possible girlfriend?

[Gottaluvit]

Have to agree with you. I was intrigued by the notion at first, but the way it's being carried out just isn't holding much water for me. Peege on Thanagar with Carter came completely out of the blue, and seems as if it's only going to be used as a catalyst for Kendra and Roy to hook up. Not fair to either Hawkman or Power Girl as characters, in my opinion.

Since this HG/RA thing seemed inevitable from the get-go anway, though, I would have rather seen Kendra slowly warming up to Roy first, then have Peege consoling Carter later on in a future JSA issue. Relationship ensues from there. I suppose it could still go down like this, considering Carter initially pushed Karen away, but the whole Thanagar thing will still bother me. I just don't know how or when the heck she wound up there with him, let alone how quickly she would have to have managed to fall for him. I actually think they're a sensible pairing, both being strong-willed individuals, but I never felt any sort of romantic rapport between them before. And frankly, I still don't.

At this point, the whole thing just comes across as being both very rushed and, as you said, forced. Not just between Kendra and Roy, but now between Carter and Peege as well. And considering his plodding way of storytelling, I don't believe Meltzer can rectify that before he's done. It's probably going to be up to Johns and whoever takes over for Brad to make this work for me, and honestly, I'd just assume a return to the status quo of Hawkman and Hawkgirl.

I wasn't sure exactly what PG was meaning, whether she and Carter actually did have something going on Thanagar, or if she wanted there to be something and there was little more then that kiss between them before he said 'no'. The comment about Roy not being the only one chaseing some tail had me puzzled as to whether that meant she was still interested in Carter, or whether it meant the Carter was still chaseing Kendra.

There's been rumors spawned by comments Geoff made some time back flying for awhile now about some new boyfreind of Peege's, fans have been trying to guess who it could be, maybe this isn't just Brad's idea, maybe Geoff has had some intentions of getting Carter and Peege together for awhile and he's worked with Brad to plant a few seeds.


Whatever though, it could have been done a lot better if allowed to happen more naturally.

[Gottaluvit]

True, but Vixen said she felt "really good," and the gorillas noted that she had "the glow." Obviously the nature of the city is somehow boosting her powers, but I've no idea why.

It was mentioned on the DC boards that maybe Mari is somehow channeling other heroes powers, that maybe in issue 7 is was her useing Brion's powers to save Roy and not Geo-Force himself, the panel in that issue showed both Mari and Brion with hands out yelling 'no' at the same time. Maybe in this issue she was channeling Flash's speed as well.

Could be some residual effect of Amazo having the totem maybe.

[Gottaluvit]

Whats the translation for that secret power word that wakes them up?

'Lightning Lad'

[Hawkman]

I can understand where our Hawkman's coming from.
Heh, I kinda like that distinction. Only after I registered did I realize what confusion this screen name might cause.:)

Gottaluvit, perhaps I wasn't very clear in my post. I took it that PG made a move, and Carter didn't go for it. Basically, they shared only the kiss and he pushed her away, telling her flat-out "no." I can't see him ever betraying Kendra, especially at that point in time, where they had finally gotten together and she was waiting for him back on earth.

Which is another reason it confuses me that Peege was there. As portrayed in Hawkgirl, Kendra didn't do much at all on earth during the one-year gap, but PG had time to go to Thanagar and make a play for Carter? Why her and not Kendra? Really, the whole Hawkman absence was handled very poorly, almost as an afterthought.

Anyway, I have faith in Johns making a HM/PG relationship work if he has to. I've said numerous times in various ways that I hate the idea of Carter sitting in a corner alone while Kendra's off fraternizing with Roy. If Peege does in fact end up with Carter, I'd be a lot more accepting of the Hawks' time apart from one another.

And wow, that's a cool theory about Mari. I hadn't heard that one before. Certainly adds a new level of depth to her powers.

[DMike]

Wasn't Kendra spending most of the missing year recovering from being freakishly huge?

Kara, meanwhile, didn't really show up that much in 52. She was seen at like 3 or so chasing Terra Man into Khandaq, then IIRC didn't really show up again until WW3. She may or may not have been around to help the victims of the New Years Disaster (I can't remember), and she definitely wasn't around when the JSA broke up, so she may have been off-planet during that middle period of the year.

Meanwhile, the scene in the future is kinda confusing. Per Degaton seems to be older than the last time he appeared in JSA, while Despero is in his younger, weaker form from the old days, which makes one wonder why he would give up that much strength when his mind powers were the same in both bodies. The real question is the Ultra-Humanite. Is he a new UH reborn in the body of that savior baby white gorilla? Is he the same Ultra-Humanite we've always known, and if so, how did he survive getting his brains blown out by the Crimson Avenger's magic bullets? Or is this an earlier version of the UH from the past like Despero seems to be?

[Scavenger]

(Karate Kid, Dream Girl and Dawnstar, for instance, are quite useful in a fight but not much more so than regular human beings)

Dawny is actually pretty strong...and fly's at super speeds...she just grabs folks, flys them into space, and drops them off. And KK can karate chop through inertron. And Dreamy's got dynamite breasts!


also don't you think the big swerve ending will be they aren't saving LL but actually saving Barry Allen?

. . . . .

I think you're exactly right. Lightning Lad is far too obvious. And it explains why we saw the Batman/Val fight in Countdown.

You get the Kewpie doll!

[Lex]

Very interesting issue. Though very light on action. I can see why they structured this crossover the way they did. Meltzer gets the talking issues and Johns gets the actions issues. And I'm betting JSA will have a lot of action.

I loved the Gorilla City scene. It was cool to get some nice characterization between Jay, Hal and Nnamdi. Very fun. I like the continued hits about Vixen. And the Raptor Race was all kinds of awesome. It harkens back to the days where gorillas and dinosaurs regularly appeared in comics (mostly to boost sales).

I love this team-up of villains. Per Degaton, Ultra-Humanite and Despero. One JSA-exclusive villain (Degaton), one JLA-exclusive villain (Despero) and one villain that both teams have faced many times (the Humanite).

And it's very interesting that these Legionnaires are being placed in "their nightmares." Like Karate Kid fighting with a weapon and the "lone wolf" being part of a pack... the Timber Wolf already had a pack in the Legion.

This continues to be an interesting crossover and I look forward to future parts.

As for the whole Carter/Kendra/Kara/Roy think, I still don't know what to think. Since when was Peege ever on Thanagar during the reconstruction? While I'm not opposed to Carter and she having a fling of their own perse, it feels both forced and rushed here, as if Brad is trying to give Kendra a reason to tell Carter to take a hike if and when she eventually finds out.
I think Meltzer's point with the PG/Hawkman thing is to forshadow upcoming drama for the Roy/Hawkgirl relationship. He's bring up how complex the Hawkman/Hawkgirl relationship has become. Right now, they aren't together, but the destiny of those characters is to be together.

PG's emphasis about "eventually saying no" references that destiny or perceived destiny. So in issue #11 (which I think will focus on Kendra and Roy), this will probably come up again. It might mean Kendra having doubts about getting into a serious relationship or it might mean Roy having doubts about getting between Kendra and Carter. Whatever is going to happen, the PG/Hawkman thing is just for added drama on the Roy/Kendra thing.

I'm guessing it'll be a throw-away idea, unless Geoff wants to play with the idea a bit in JSA.

[Lex]

I think you're exactly right. Lightning Lad is far too obvious. And it explains why we saw the Batman/Val fight in Countdown.
Actually, Karate Kid is supposed to be one of the main characters for Countdown. So they put that scene in it to kind of introduce KK and then his adventures will continue in Coutndown when the JLA/JSA story ends.

[Scavenger]

And it's very interesting that these Legionnaires are being placed in "their nightmares." Like Karate Kid fighting with a weapon and the "lone wolf" being part of a pack... the Timber Wolf already had a pack in the Legion.

Actually, I found that part really dumb. Karate Kid would fight with weapons. Timber Wolf was a part of the Legion...and had lots of friends...that era tended to hang out with Blok or Val...so hardly still a "lone wolf". Wildfire's didn't even make sense...did someone bother to mention to Meltzer that he's not a robot..he's a glob of energy inside a uniform. And Dawnstar's nightmare was to be on a planet with other winged people....like her home? Or is it to be a lesbian?:eek:

shurg.


Actually, Karate Kid is supposed to be one of the main characters for Countdown. So they put that scene in it to kind of introduce KK and then his adventures will continue in Coutndown when the JLA/JSA story ends.

And if you know that from Didio's comemnts...you know the other bit that makes what van_line said very likely.

[ultramandingo]

......so it must be some crazy time travel story . what with old school despero and albino monkey huminite . last i remember he was in and got kicked outa johnny thunderbolts body

[Hawkman]

Wasn't Kendra spending most of the missing year recovering from being freakishly huge?
Not too far into 52, I specifically recall seeing her in a panel with a group of the others adversely affected by the beam, shrunk back down to normal size with a crutch. I don't remember when it was exactly, but it wasn't long after the issue where she initially appeared oversized. And aside from a throwaway line in WWIII, her time spent as a giant hasn't been referenced since to my knowledge.

She could have still been recuperating off panel, I suppose, but who knows since the concept was completely wasted. The way I see it, there wasn't any real excuse to have her away from Thanagar in first place, other than DC wanting the Hawks seperated to make the titular shift from Hawkman to Hawkgirl. None of that's really here nor there, though.

PG's emphasis about "eventually saying no" references that destiny or perceived destiny. So in issue #11 (which I think will focus on Kendra and Roy), this will probably come up again. It might mean Kendra having doubts about getting into a serious relationship or it might mean Roy having doubts about getting between Kendra and Carter. Whatever is going to happen, the PG/Hawkman thing is just for added drama on the Roy/Kendra thing.

I'm guessing it'll be a throw-away idea, unless Geoff wants to play with the idea a bit in JSA.
This is definitely a possibilty, but I also think it would be somewhat of a wasted opportunity. As much as I dislike the concept of splitting the Hawks up even temporarily, giving each of them someone to pair up with on their respective teams in the meantime would be the best way to go about it, in my opinion. And considering Johns mentioned that PG would wind up in a relationship with another member of the JSA, this just comes off as feeling like set-up and foreshadowing to me.

But we'll see how it plays out. You may very well be right, and I'm just reading way too much into it at this point.

[Suzanne]

Heh, I kinda like that distinction. Only after I registered did I realize what confusion this screen name might cause.:)
Haha! It's all good, I'm glad you liked it.

Come to think of it, there could've been better ways to separate Carter & Kendra for a year. It would've been more sensible if he was blasted away to one of the 51 alternate Earths, making him one the select few to know about the Multiverse.

[Scavenger]

It would've been more sensible if he was blasted away to one of the 51 alternate Earths, making him one the select few to know about the Multiverse.

Ah...the select few...like Dula Dent and Jason Todd.

[LordAllMighty]

So do Cheetahs run really fast around Gorilla City or something.

Cause they move at 60 mph not 600.

Even though she said “cheetah”, I think she was actually copying Jay’s ability. It would explain how she was able to keep up with him. I think she is sub-consciously mimicking the abilities of others, which I believe the ruler of Gorilla City was about to tell her before he was interrupted.

http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/7721/jla9agz9.th.jpg (http://img208.imageshack.us/my.php?image=jla9agz9.jpg)

http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/8835/jlabzj0.th.jpg (http://img208.imageshack.us/my.php?image=jlabzj0.jpg)

http://img292.imageshack.us/img292/6151/jlacsz1.th.jpg (http://img292.imageshack.us/my.php?image=jlacsz1.jpg)

True, but Vixen said she felt "really good," and the gorillas noted that she had "the glow." Obviously the nature of the city is somehow boosting her powers, but I've no idea why.

I don’t think it the city. I think it might be Vixen fully tapping into her powers. This for some reason gives me “The Crazy Scarlet Witch” feeling.

It was mentioned on the DC boards that maybe Mari is somehow channeling other heroes powers, that maybe in issue 7 is was her useing Brion's powers to save Roy and not Geo-Force himself, the panel in that issue showed both Mari and Brion with hands out yelling 'no' at the same time. Maybe in this issue she was channeling Flash's speed as well.

It would make sense if she was mimicking the abilities of other superheroes, seeing that man/woman is also animals.

http://img214.imageshack.us/my.php?image=1213ev7.jpg
http://img120.imageshack.us/my.php?image=14nd2.jpg

Could be some residual effect of Amazo having the totem maybe.

Maybe

[PastePotPete]

Ah...the select few...like Dula Dent and Jason Todd.

LOL. Duela Dent's power was that she got inside information directly from the DC writers.

Seriously. There better be a decent explanation for why she knew that.

[Hawkman]

Just read the issue again really quick, and picked up a little nod to JLU that I missed the first time through. No, not the obvious one in the beginning, but the name of the building where they find Dawnstar's "friend." The Talak Building. Nice.

[smoothjokes]

I have to say that I'm not enjoying this crossover, honestly this book is reading like it's a big wet dream to the Silver Age (I was born in 1985). None of this stuff is relevent to me in anyway. I just don't care. I'm only continuing with this because I really enjoy the New JSA series. I dropped JLA after issue 2 with the line-up and the two headquarters, which is stupid. I really miss the Grant Morrison/Mark Waid Big 7 w/ Plastic Man runs.

[Ring Slinger]

When I first read this issue, I thought I had missed something-- the tranistion from the last JSA issue didn't seem so smooth to me. Other than that and the fact that constantly changing narration cued only by a color change is a little confusing, I thought it was a solid issue. Me being me, I prefer the character stuff as opposed to rock 'em/sock 'em.

A few other points:

1. Loved seeing Gorilla City (Grodd will always be one of my favorite villains) and the tie of the white baby gorilla to the Ultra Humanite.

2. I really liked the new Wildcat as he was introduced in JSA, but his characterization thus far leaves much to be desired.

3. I've got no clue about the Legion, but I'm enjoying this run overall.

4. Enjoyed Black Canary's analysis of Mr. Terrific being just a little obsessive/compulsive about Red Tornado being able to see him.

Ready for Part IV!

[Mon-el]

So does this issue explain why the Legion had Batman ultitely belt ? :confused:

Batman's Utility Belt was just a disguise. The real reasoning was the canisters in the belt was the actual Lightning rods.

Also I'm confuse by how the Lighting Rods can repower Lighting lad ?


Spoilers from 1963 Adventure Comics #312

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v301/Mon-el/ll1.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v301/Mon-el/ll2.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v301/Mon-el/ll3.jpg

Like many of said, it doesn't have to be Lightning Lad that they have to bring back. They could bring back anyone.

I can't wait to see who the final Legionnaires are.

I am enjoying this crossover so much.

[DoctorDoom]

It would be great if the Legion actually brought back Barry Allen.

[UniqueFrequency]

I have to say that I'm not enjoying this crossover, honestly this book is reading like it's a big wet dream to the Silver Age (I was born in 1985). None of this stuff is relevent to me in anyway. I just don't care. I'm only continuing with this because I really enjoy the New JSA series. I dropped JLA after issue 2 with the line-up and the two headquarters, which is stupid. I really miss the Grant Morrison/Mark Waid Big 7 w/ Plastic Man runs.


i know what you mean. i felt that in infinite crisis and 52. not yet creeping up on countdown though. (i'm a 1984 baby)

[Canadian]

It would be great if the Legion actually brought back Barry Allen.

That would be cool, but where does that leave Bart Allen? Something big is happening in Flash #13 next month...could it be connected?



Peace.

[Canadian]

i know what you mean. i felt that in infinite crisis and 52. not yet creeping up on countdown though. (i'm a 1984 baby)


DC has over 60 years of stories and while some of this is appealing to us slightly older readers (I'm only 9 years older than you) who remember the first crisis and the silver age heroes, I think they are also trying to 'educate' some of the younger readers with some of the big events and characters from the long history of the DC universe.



Peace.

[Ring Slinger]

It would be great if the Legion actually brought back Barry Allen.

You know, I didn't give the reviving Barry Allen theory too much thought, but then I remembered the passing reference made by Nnamdi referencing how tall he was when he last saw Hal and Jay: "I barely came to Sir Barry's waist."

I mention it because it seems so obvious that the Legion is trying to resurrect Lightning Lad-- especially with "Lightning Lad" being the code word to re-trigger everyone's memory-- but is it too obvious? Is the reference to Barry just a simple allusion or is it more? Hmmmm...

[UniqueFrequency]

DC has over 60 years of stories and while some of this is appealing to us slightly older readers (I'm only 9 years older than you) who remember the first crisis and the silver age heroes, I think they are also trying to 'educate' some of the younger readers with some of the big events and characters from the long history of the DC universe.



Peace.

that's probably true, but i don't see the point. the multiverse was destroyed 23 yrs ago, and bringing it back and expecting 'new' or 'young' readers to understand and appreciate Power Girl's role in Infinite Crisis or all that hoohah with Beast Boy and the Doom Patrol just.... probably isn't working

[mgs]

Like many of said, it doesn't have to be Lightning Lad that they have to bring back. They could bring back anyone.

I can't wait to see who the final Legionnaires are.

I am enjoying this crossover so much.

Whoa! O.O

Thanks for that scan, Mon-el, I don't know about the Legionnaire's history, but this is one of the reasons why I think DC should be putting out those DVD's like Marvel now. :)

[Hawkman]

Great scans, Mon-el. But looking at them again just now, a thought suddenly occured to me: How stupid are the Legionnaires for allowing Superboy to participate in that? I mean, they know he's fated to be the greatest superhero of our generation, so they decide to just hand him a lightning rod and play Russian routlette with the rest of them? Idiots!

[cyclops2500]

I'm really enjoying the crossover. I thought this issue was solid too. The whole Gorilla City scene was terrific. So is the newborn white gorilla supposed to be the ultra-humanite?

I wonder if they're gonna even bother revealing the last 2 legionnaires now that the five are gonna do their suicide thing?

I don't get the issue with RA/HG. The way I see, there are to alpha personalities who find each other attarctive, so they flirt. I know it's refreneced a lot, but Roy is putting himself in a position to purposely be near her. Hell, he's Ollie Queen's "son," can he breathe without flirting?

[jadrax]

You know, I didn't give the reviving Barry Allen theory too much thought, but then I remembered the passing reference made by Nnamdi referencing how tall he was when he last saw Hal and Jay: "I barely came to Sir Barry's waist."

I mention it because it seems so obvious that the Legion is trying to resurrect Lightning Lad-- especially with "Lightning Lad" being the code word to re-trigger everyone's memory-- but is it too obvious? Is the reference to Barry just a simple allusion or is it more? Hmmmm...

I think the obvious Dead Person they could be trying to revive is Kal-L

[Gottaluvit]

Hell, he's Ollie Queen's "son," can he breathe without flirting?


Actually he can, he's proven before he has a little more control then Ollie. Winick wrote a 'flirty manwhore' version of Roy that took his flirtateous nature to an extreme that Devin Grayson cultured to some extent. But anyone who has followed Roy for any length of time will remember how he can be professional and serious at times. He lead the New Titans for a few years there without flirting constantly or ever hitting on any of the female team members.

Roy was always a flirt, but untill Devin Grayson come along and promoted him to the ranks of 'super flirt' and Winick graduated him to 'man whore' he know when to keep a grip.

Brad isn't Judd Winick thank goodness, and we are seeing flirting, just not 'jump my bones right now' type flirting.

[Sandy Hausler]

I hate to respond to a comic I haven't read yet, but due to my mother passing away last week, as I am dealing with a lot of problems. It will be some time before I get to read this issue.

Condolences on the death of your mother. I know that's hard.

Sandy Hausler

[LtMarvel]

Does anyone know if this is the first time the word "testicles" has appeared in a Justice League comic? Anyone? Kurt Busiek?
Hard for me to get worked up over that word when I drive by billboards advertising this every year (http://64.146.17.242/stories/060103/ent_0601030894.asp):

[Wonder Dude]

I think they're going to try to revive Conner.

[Shellhead]

I think they're going to try to revive Conner.

Not unless they want to revive the legal battle.

[jv2k]

Conner doesn't have to call himself superboy.

[Cayman]

Hard for me to get worked up over that word when I drive by billboards advertising this every year (http://64.146.17.242/stories/060103/ent_0601030894.asp):

Heh heh, sounds like an event.

I'm not really worked up over it, I just thought it was sort of amusing.

[Shellhead]

Conner doesn't have to call himself superboy.

"Young Superman" is what they are awkwardly calling Superboy on the Legion cartoon, but that doesn't accurately describe Connor's role. Maybe they could call him SuperEmoBoy, to really capture Connor's lousy personality in the Teen Titans series before he died.

[Will.S]

I don't know, while these characters are pretty much new to me outside of the ones featured in the cartoon and maybe Karate Kid, I still find myself enjoying the crossover. Mostly because of the nod to the past story Mon-el posted scans of, and I'm always down to learn about more DC characters and this group of Legion heroes seem pretty cool.

There were also other things to like about the book such as the dino race and the JSA/JLA team in Gorilla City, Red Arrow and Hawk Girl's ongoing flirtations, interesting interplay and comraderie between both teams, and another big reveal of the villains. The Ultra Humanite appearance caught me off guard since he had just recently appeared in newest Blue Beetle but given Despero's older appearance these might be time displaced villains.

I didn't know who Per Degaton was but he had a familiar design so I'm looking forward to see more of these guys.

[LtMarvel]

Per Degaton is a lab assistant who uses time travel to take over the world. The JSA stops him, usually resualting in a time loop in which Degaton wakes up to his old job convinced that his world take over was just a dream.

[SuperSince92]

What could the Legion's motivation be if it is Barry Allen they are here to "save"? Why him, why now?

[Cayman]

I don't know, while these characters are pretty much new to me outside of the ones featured in the cartoon and maybe Karate Kid, I still find myself enjoying the crossover. Mostly because of the nod to the past story Mon-el posted scans of, and I'm always down to learn about more DC characters and this group of Legion heroes seem pretty cool.

There were also other things to like about the book such as the dino race and the JSA/JLA team in Gorilla City, Red Arrow and Hawk Girl's ongoing flirtations, interesting interplay and comraderie between both teams, and another big reveal of the villains. The Ultra Humanite appearance caught me off guard since he had just recently appeared in newest Blue Beetle but given Despero's older appearance these might be time displaced villains.

I didn't know who Per Degaton was but he had a familiar design so I'm looking forward to see more of these guys.

There was a really good JSA issue a few years back that was a one-shot focusing on Degaton. One of the best Johns issues of the title, but I forget which number.

[Will.S]

Per Degaton is a lab assistant who uses time travel to take over the world. The JSA stops him, usually resualting in a time loop in which Degaton wakes up to his old job convinced that his world take over was just a dream.

There was a really good JSA issue a few years back that was a one-shot focusing on Degaton. One of the best Johns issues of the title, but I forget which number.
Hmm, thanks for the info.

I'll probably check it out that issue too Cayman.