SHRA: Reading the Small Print

[Syzygy]

You are a super-powered citizen of the USA with no criminal record.

While considering registration under the SHRA, you examine the forms you are required to sign.

What do they say? Has Marvel ever clarified this? Does it require you to do military service overseas, quit your day job, take drug tests?

Just what's in the documents you're expected to sign?

[Karthak]

Marvel hasn't really told us any details. Maybe they don't even know themselves.:p

[Lanowar]

Marvel hasn't really told us any details. Maybe they don't even know themselves.:p

Thus the biggest flaw about Civil War, the fact is no one even attempts to tell the anti-reggers the details about the act they just let them assume. If they posted the act and the benefits and what it is exactly it is then less people would have rebelled. The act is often just shown as evil in Civil War then post-civil war it's seen as a good thing and a step forward in all the titles expect for New Avengers and possibly Spider-man but even then it's not spoken about.

[bulbasteve]

Marvel hasn't really told us any details. Maybe they don't even know themselves.:p

So what about that giant Civil War Q&A thread on this very forum? It hasn't been very clear in the comics, thats for sure, but I think Marvel has been more than open on the net on what the SHRA says.

In this case the answers would be no, no and probably knowing Tony.

[tavella]

So what about that giant Civil War Q&A thread on this very forum? It hasn't been very clear in the comics, thats for sure, but I think Marvel has been more than open on the net on what the SHRA says.

In this case the answers would be no, no and probably knowing Tony.

Actually, yes (if SHIELD or the government want you), yes (if SHIELD or the government want you) and not known.

[Magneto Rocks]

military service overseas,

Not if you don't wish to sign up for the Initiative.

quit your day job,

Not unless you want to.

take drug tests?

Possibly, if you're active.

Despite tavella's almost admirable/laughable attempts to twist it.

[Karthak]

Not if you don't wish to sign up for the Initiative.


Not signing up doesn't seem to be an option from what we've seen so far...

[Magneto Rocks]

The Fantastic Four and just about every X-men team beg to differ.

[XPac]

The Fantastic Four and just about every X-men team beg to differ.

Yes, but we're not talking about the Fantastic Four (and the X teams are sort of in a different category since they fall under the mutant registration).

Fantastic Four don't have to prove themselves in order to get their liscence. Some random unknown metahuman will likely have to prove that they are safe enough to walk around in public even if they don't want to be a superhero, depending on their power.

[Bryson the Red]

The Fantastic Four is a good point now that I think about it. They might not need to go through boot camp to get their license, but this at least shows us that you are not required to serve in the Initiative. This is possibly a different story while in training, since you are apparently under government control for training, you are I assume drafted until you get you license.

[Bryson the Red]

(and the X teams are sort of in a different category since they fall under the mutant registration)

I'm pretty sure mutants have to register too.

[XPac]

I'm pretty sure mutants have to register too.

Mutants are ALREADY registered because of the mutant registration. That's why they could sit on the sidelines during Civil War.

[Bryson the Red]

Mutants are ALREADY registered because of the mutant registration. That's why they could sit on the sidelines during Civil War.

Ms Marvel is a mutant right? She has a SHRA card.

[Magneto Rocks]

Mutants are still registered, but they are considered trained by the Xavier School and already rgeistered thanks to M-Day. The FF are an example of a super team who are registered but not government ordered.

There is zero evidence to suggest if you register, you HAVE TO HAVE TO join the Initiative or work for the government, and much evidence against it. Add that to the comments by Tom Brevoort directly stating you don't, and there is effectively no case for "If you register, you MUST obey the government and they WILL give you orders and you MUST join the Initiative."

[XPac]

Ms Marvel is a mutant right? She has a SHRA card.

Nope. Carol got her powers from Kree technology.

[Zombienorthstar]

Some mutants are part of the SHRA Justice for instance,

[XPac]

Some mutants are part of the SHRA Justice for instance,

I'm not saying that mutants can't help out with the Initiative... I'm just saying that mutants were already registered prior to the SHRA. They had their own registration following M day.

[StoneGold]

Marvel's been very clear about not being clear. By not publishing 150 pages of the act somewhere, they can pretty much do what they want story-wise. Besides, if the Patriot Act as taught us anything, creative interpretation of the law can provide just about any result you want.

[XPac]

You are a super-powered citizen of the USA with no criminal record.

While considering registration under the SHRA, you examine the forms you are required to sign.

What do they say? Has Marvel ever clarified this? Does it require you to do military service overseas, quit your day job, take drug tests?

Just what's in the documents you're expected to sign?

I found an old Dan Slott intervew from Newsrama that might give a bit of insight in how it works.

“But I will say that there are Pro-Registration heroes, and Anti-Registration heroes, and that for every single guy that registered, there is a price to pay. That price to pay is the Initiative. Whether you knew it or not when you registered, by signing that little slip of paper, you’ve been back-door drafted. If you signed up, you’re falling in when you’re called.

“Marvel’s army of super-heroes is now a super-hero army.”

http://forum.newsarama.com/showthread.php?t=94501

[Magneto Rocks]

Slott's a writer, XPac. You know just as well as I do what Tom Brevoort, who is a much greater authority on this than Slott, has repeatedly said; that any hero who so wishes can register and doesn't have to join the Initiative or work for SHIELD. He has said it a half dozen times at least, he has made it VERY clear and quoting all the Dan Slott in the world doesn't change that simple fact which undermines a huge part of the anti-reg argument.

[Lanowar]

Because as we know Marvel Editors are always on the ball about what there writers are doing...

Wait Banshee's Dead? Should I be covering this?
Wait is'nt Flag Smasher in europe?
Wait hold up how many people died in Standford? 600 or 900?
Wait did'nt you lose your powers?

Also I would'nt take Tom's comments to heart because Marvel is well known for misleading or simply just changing it's mind when it seems fit.

Hulk's now a Mass murderer!
Tony Stark is now a Futurist he saw being blind raving drunk would help america into the future.
Xorneto- nuff said

[ManSpider]

Mutants are still registered, but they are considered trained by the Xavier School and already rgeistered thanks to M-Day. The FF are an example of a super team who are registered but not government ordered.

There is zero evidence to suggest if you register, you HAVE TO HAVE TO join the Initiative or work for the government, and much evidence against it. Add that to the comments by Tom Brevoort directly stating you don't, and there is effectively no case for "If you register, you MUST obey the government and they WILL give you orders and you MUST join the Initiative."

wasnt wonder man forced into it? blackmailed by sheild

[Magneto Rocks]

wasnt wonder man forced into it? blackmailed by sheild

1. It's illegal, SHIELD weren't allowed to do it at all
2. He still could have said no
3. The SHRA doesn't include anything remotely like that, so..

[ManSpider]

1. It's illegal, SHIELD weren't allowed to do it at all
2. He still could have said no
3. The SHRA doesn't include anything remotely like that, so..

1. but they did do it
2.the point of black mail is they put u between a rock n a hard place
3.but the SHRA is enforced by currupt folk who use blackmail to get u to do wat they want. so..

[Expletive Deleted]

The SHRA doesn't include anything remotely like that ...Except when it does.

That's the beauty of keeping things ambiguous.

[StoneGold]

Except when it does.

That's the beauty of keeping things ambiguous.

Just like the Patriot Act.

[XPac]

Slott's a writer, XPac. You know just as well as I do what Tom Brevoort, who is a much greater authority on this than Slott, has repeatedly said; that any hero who so wishes can register and doesn't have to join the Initiative or work for SHIELD. He has said it a half dozen times at least, he has made it VERY clear and quoting all the Dan Slott in the world doesn't change that simple fact which undermines a huge part of the anti-reg argument.

Dan Slott is the writer of the Initiative book... so I would consider him a fairly good authority on the Initiative.

And Breevort has also addressed the issue of the backdoor draft. I specifically asked him about Jessica Jones, and he specifically said she could be called into service for SHIELD if they wanted her. So Brevoorts commends aren't quite as clear cut as you try to make them out to be, unless of course you're just picking and chooseing which arguements support yours and casting aside the rest.

If Cloud 9's handling of the situation is any sort of indicator, let's just say I don't have quite the same level of faith in the Initiative as you do. The government we're seeing in the Initiaitve is doing several shady questionable things (like most shady governments in fictional works tend to), so I'm not sure I think not giving them the benefit of the doubt is more than reasonable.

[tavella]

We've seen both Wonder Man and She-Hulk drafted. Just because only some 18 year olds were drafted to go to Vietnam doesn't mean there wasn't a draft in the 60s. Sheesh.

[XPac]

Because as we know Marvel Editors are always on the ball about what there writers are doing...

Wait Banshee's Dead? Should I be covering this?
Wait is'nt Flag Smasher in europe?
Wait hold up how many people died in Standford? 600 or 900?
Wait did'nt you lose your powers?

Also I would'nt take Tom's comments to heart because Marvel is well known for misleading or simply just changing it's mind when it seems fit.

Hulk's now a Mass murderer!
Tony Stark is now a Futurist he saw being blind raving drunk would help america into the future.
Xorneto- nuff said


I do think Tom was sort of trying to create a pro-Registration slant to some degree, simply because the fan reaction was so anti (and I'll wager he'd be doing the opposite if the fan reaction went the other way).

There were times reading the Tom Breevord thread only confused me more. He had to have said that Spidey start the Iron Man fight 2-4 times, when anyone that's read Amazing Spiderman knows that Tony attacked him first. Am I suppossed to believe what a marvel editor says when the actual comic itself is completely contradicting him? I don't know... but I certainly shouldn't have to if they're doing their jobs right.

[Shyft]

Slott's a writer, XPac. You know just as well as I do what Tom Brevoort, who is a much greater authority on this than Slott, has repeatedly said; that any hero who so wishes can register and doesn't have to join the Initiative or work for SHIELD. He has said it a half dozen times at least, he has made it VERY clear and quoting all the Dan Slott in the world doesn't change that simple fact which undermines a huge part of the anti-reg argument.

as far as im concerned, neither of their comments matter squat if they don't back those comments up with their own writing in the books. I just ignore pro or anti comments from editors and writers because if its not in the books whats the point? There intention may be there, but without being in the VERY books we are talking about, its as fruitless as me and you debating.


There is zero evidence to suggest if you register, you HAVE TO HAVE TO join the Initiative or work for the government, and much evidence against it. Add that to the comments by Tom Brevoort directly stating you don't, and there is effectively no case for "If you register, you MUST obey the government and they WILL give you orders and you MUST join the Initiative.".

Except Cloud 9. And Rage didn't seem particularly thrilled to be there, PLUS he was registered as an Avenger both as a fulltime member (till they found out his age, but still, shows he's capable) and a reservist. So he obviously doesn't need training or being taught how to use his powers "responsibly".

I think using the FF as an example is kinda ridiculous considering how established and well regarded they are in the MU. Also take into consideration Reed was one of the SHRA, and the negative publicity if they tried to get the MU's oldest team to sign up for "training" and "how to use their powers responsibly" seeing as those are MEANT to be the aims of The Iniative, right? It would be laughable.

[hyzmarca]

There are probably some clauses in there pertaining to the ownership of one's immortal soul.

[ManSpider]

so we dont know the small print then?

[StoneGold]

so we dont know the small print then?

There is no small print.

[XPac]

so we dont know the small print then?

The small print is where individual writers can get some storytelling flexibility down the line. The registration will likely be with us at least for a bit of a while, and having everything laid out would potentially be confining for writers.

I'm sure writers down the line will want to throw out a few curveballs that the initiail artitects of the Initiative didn't consider at the time.

[SKJAM!]

So far, it seems to work like this...

If you have superpowers of any kind, or want to put on a costume to fight crime, you must register. Certain case by case exceptions are granted by the people running the implementation of the SHRA (notably Dr. Strange, at least before he started hanging out with the New Avengers.)

Once you are registered, you must go through a training course (the Initiative) unless the people running the implementation (Tony Stark, mainly) give you an automatic pass. This is why some established supertypes are stuck in the Initiative (Rage, Gargoyle) and others aren't (Ares.)

Anyone who's registered through the SHRA (and possibly the Mutant Registration Act) can be drafted by the government (usually SHIELD) "in time of need." The implementation of this part is left to SHIELD and the Committee for Superhuman Activities. It is not yet clear how much leeway the draftees have to follow their consciences.

Theoretically, once you've registered and been trained (or gotten a pass), you can "retire" until you are drafted. Those that want to remain actively using their powers or fighting crime can apply for team or solo gigs, preferably in an area suitable to their needs. Some pressure (we have not had demonstrated how much) may be exerted to push registered people towards less desirable postings.

Certain parts of the SHRA may be unconstitutional. Danny Rand is currently the main test case for this, as he's one of the few anti-reggers who can actually afford decent lawyers. (The ACLU may be doing some pro bono work as well, but their caseload is heavy, and they may not be able to get the courts to speed up the proceedings the way the Rand Corporation can.)

[bulbasteve]

You are forgetting the most important issue of Registration vs. Licensing.

If you don't want to use your powers you only need to regsiter (the "if you wanna fly your going to need a license" line in Initiative), so "retiring" could be done without any training it would seem.

We don't know if it is registration or licensing that makes it so you can be drafted. One would assume it would be only licensed heroes since they are already signed up to be heroes. In reality I can't see why they would write in "we can draft anybody" into the actual law when SHIELD having thier names means they can just pressure them to do it in the grand Nick Fury tradition and stops many of the legal questions. And the only real solid statement that was made about drafting by Tom that Xpac mentioned was made before they even told us about this licensing vs. registration issue.

It's also been pretty clear that only SHIELD has the names of the heroes, so the CSA probably couldn't draft anyone since they don't know who they are (though Gyrich knew who Trauma was even though War Machine gave the "god, you and Tony Stark" line or whatever).

For constitutionality, I really doubt if nothing has happened so far that we haven't even seen a lower court say it is unconstitutional that we ever will. (even with Marvel Time being what it is, it would have to have been in the courts by now).

[SKJAM!]

You are forgetting the most important issue of Registration vs. Licensing.

If you don't want to use your powers you only need to regsiter (the "if you wanna fly your going to need a license" line in Initiative), so "retiring" could be done without any training it would seem.
(Some stuff clipped here)
For constitutionality, I really doubt if nothing has happened so far that we haven't even seen a lower court say it is unconstitutional that we ever will. (even with Marvel Time being what it is, it would have to have been in the courts by now).

Well, sure, theoretically you could retire by promising to never use your powers (or dress up in a costume) again; we've never actually seen someone succeed at this. (Firestar apparently did the first part, but we haven't seen if she actually succeeded at retiring.) And in comics, the temptation to start using your powers again "just for this emergency" becomes too strong to resist whenever the writer remembers that you exist.

Oh, and I should mention that it appears that if you have outstanding warrants or unfinished jail time for something other than the SHRA, registering doesn't do you a whole lot of good. You can either serve out your time or sign up for the Thunderbolts (if they'll take you), or participate in government black ops. You can forget the peaceful retirement option.

I'm suspecting that we will see some aspects of the SHRA declared unconstitutional only when it's time for the next big event, as Marvel editorial is committed to the current status quo for a few years' worth of storylines.

[bulbasteve]

Well, sure, theoretically you could retire by promising to never use your powers (or dress up in a costume) again; we've never actually seen someone succeed at this. (Firestar apparently did the first part, but we haven't seen if she actually succeeded at retiring.) And in comics, the temptation to start using your powers again "just for this emergency" becomes too strong to resist whenever the writer remembers that you exist.

Well you also have to think of how many people with powers we have never seen. Take for example She Hulks entire superpowered office, we don't see the mail delivering speedsters running around the initiative or anything. We have to remember that there is a somewhat sizable amount of "background supers" who won't be used by any other writer and will never be seen anywhere else.

I'm suspecting that we will see some aspects of the SHRA declared unconstitutional only when it's time for the next big event, as Marvel editorial is committed to the current status quo for a few years' worth of storylines.

I don't think the last issue of the current thunderbolts is going to be an "ALL NEW ALL SUPREME COURT ISSUE!". They are going to fight SHIELD and get thier ass owned and have the program scrapped, much more exciting than it just stopping one issue because of the Supreme Court.