Iceman: A reflection of the relationships that left him in the cold.

[ProfeZZor X]

First there was Jean: He had a serious crush on her from the day she entered Xavier's class. He had confidence, and the power to back it up... Then Scott Summers came along.

When introduced to Lorna, it was almost love at first sight. They hit it off great, until somewhere along the line Bobby decided to trade in his mutant abilities for a calculator and a desk job.. Big turn off for Lorna. So she quickly found herself in the arms of none other than another Summers.

Zelda was quite an interesting spin on Bobby's life during his youthful years. Although like night and day, humans and mutant relationships generally don't last too long.

Bobby seemed to have more of an infactuation crush with Darkstar, more than her expressing anything in return than just an acknowledgement as her team mate. Tradgically, she met her fate at the hands of the rest of her team mates.

The Cloud relationship seemed to hit it off very well with "it" and Bobby... That is, until "it" went all "Crying Game" on him and he flipped out. They eventually remained friends, which is great... Because you wouldn't want to have a living nebula pissed at you for all eternity.

The Infectia thing was more like her wanting something from him, and using her sex appeal to get her way. Still, there was a little inherent flirting going on between the two. He was just a little too coy (and inexperienced) to go for it...Oh, and then there was the whole infectious mutation thing she gave off.

What can I say about Opal... Not much, other than Bobby going with an international flavor for a brief stint. Although she did teach him one thing, Japanese women can nag just like any other ethnicity.

Surprisingly, Rogue came along at him with what seemed like more than just a friendship during one of his darkest moments. While she was his travel partner, trying to cope with the tumultuous time she was having with Gambit's dark secret, she found comfort in him and compassion after experiencing a sit at home meal with his bigotted father.

As bizzarre as it seemed, Emma and Bobby seemed to have a bit of an unspoken lust for each other. She had what he wanted (power, beauty & brains), while she saw potential, power, and a toy to play with.

Cecelia Reyes really didn't seem like Bobby's type, but they did share some great momments during OZT.

At some point Nurse Annie seemed like just the type of down home girl Bobby needed, that is until the same Summer's brother dumps Bobby's first girl, then takes this one away.

Out of all the women in the known Marvel universe, Mystique would be the last person anyone would suspect him to be involved with. Although still new, their relationship seems to be more cordial than deeply passionate. We'll have to see how this one turns out in the newr future.

[Omega Alpha]

He didn't have the hots for Jean, being the only X-man that didn't back then. And he didn't have anything for Emma either, and neither did her, whom was messing with his sexuality and trying to get him out of the closet. But, of course, since you screams with anger everytime the gay Bobby subject is brought up, you won't admit it.

But to answer the topic he wouldn't work with any of the others, and not only because he's gay, but because he never seemed to care deeply about most of them, to be honest (probably because he's gay, or even if you don't think that, because he's afraid of anything deeper). Only Rogue, but still as a friend only for quite sometime now. With Polaris and Nurse Annie, he is more interested in competition with Alex more than the women, and with the others, they are either shape-shifters who can turn into men anytime and in some cases don't even know to what gender he belongs (Cloud and Mystique), untrustworthy women with whom he knows the relationship won't last (Mystique and Infectia), or just relationships which clearly won't go anywhere (Opal or Zelda). In Lorna, Annie and Rogue's cases, he was chasing women whom he knew were very much in love with other men, and in the latter, someone whom he can't even touch, in all cases indicating he runs away from anything meaningful with a girl like a mutant runs away from Master Mold. His deeper relationship is with Hank, and the only close relationships he has are either with other males (Sam, Scott, Warren), or girls which are completely unavailable (Jean and Rogue).

[Kalen O.]

Darkstar! As far as I'm convinced, Laynia realized the horrible mistake she made in leaving Bobby and the Champions, returned to America off panel, and had hot mutant sex with Bobby. Specter is actually their bastard love child. Shut up, its canon dammit. You'll see! You'll all see!

Plus, Darkstar's just way too unappreciated. Stupid Fantomex. When you have the option of shooting the bad guy or the good guy, you shoot the bad guy. You always shoot the bad guy! Not rocket science! (Yes, I get his 'on panel' reasons for shooting Darkstar, I'm just bitter. Sue me. :p

But more seriously, I wish the possible Emma/Bobby thing had been explored more past those couple Gen-X issues where he was her date to the Mass. Academy dance. Coulda been interesting precisely because, like now with Mystique....it doesn't seem like it would work. And yet, pairings that seem just as illogical work all the time in real life. I dunno, opposites attract, whatever, coulda been hot. I'm just saying.

As for the others, I never really saw much more than friendship between him and Rogue anyways. Maybe he did crush on her initially, but...eh, just didn't get that vibe from their road trip. Plus I think it cheapens their friendship to say that that whole experience was really just about Bobby trying to get in her pants. Zelda....that actually coulda worked out, but to be fair, that was all Bobby's fault that it didn't as he kinda pretty much dumped her for Lorna. Or like....she dumped him because all he ever talked about around her was Lorna. Idiot.

And as for Opal....well, she's stupid and needs to be left in Limbo to be smothered for all eternity by her big, stupid, ugly pants. Seriously, what the fuck was up with those?

[Flâneur]

Cloud and Mystique don't work as women only, that is the thing you must take into account with Bobby having a relationship with them. He wouldn't just be engaging in a relationship with the woman's body, loving the woman's body, he'd be feeling for the entire person. So in that sense Cloud and Mystique are not female, in any sense of the word.

That said:
Jean - dead, heavily attached to other men plus he didn't feel very much for her in that sense.
Lorna - competitive streak with Alex, he treated her like an object half of the time and the on and considering she only briefly went back to him as a rebound says a fair bit.
Darkstar - meaningless crush, and dead.
Nurse Annie - she was a rebound for him and he was for her ... a relationship based on mutual vulnerability rather than anything healthy. Not to mention she dumped him for Alex and later couldn't handle the entire X-men environment either so wouldn't work. At all.
Rogue - she's untouchable plus she has the psyche of the love of her life kicking around in her head somewhere. She's unlikely to go for anyone, let alone Bobby.
Emma - saw him as an object and a tool. Bobby saw her as dangerous. It is just as unhealthy a basis as the beginnings of Scott and Emma except unlike that relationship there aren't marital problems and psychic affairs to push them toward each other. No psychic nudges from Jean either.
Zelda - there's not really a great track record for relationships between humans and superhumans. They get hurt or threatened by association and lack the means to defend themselves, or they get frightened.
Opal - as above, plus wasn't there that mini where she helped some crazy doctor exploit Bobby? Doesn't sound like they were much of a match if that's the case.

Of the remainder, I'd go for Cloud though with my above comments kept in mind.

[We R. Venom]

Rogue and Mystique are he only women I think lately who would work with Bobby. The way he is feeling is not shut in. He is very open and he sure isnt afraid of much. Darkstar works to, but you know me, Mystique is Blue so she gets my vote.

[claimtosubclaim]

Bobby and Rogue could work out as they're already close friends, but I don't think either of them are attracted to each other. It certainly seems platic. His relationship with Lorna confuses me. We don't really get any friendship beats between them because she's with Alex and he tends to not like hanging out w/ Alex.

I think a Bobby/Betsy relationship would be interesting to explore. She's the product of wealth and high class, but she's much more genuinely warm than Emma and Mystique. Not really sure if it would work out, but it'd be nice to see.

[Pro]

Of these women, who would Bobby be more compatible with?

Cloud (female form only)

So what's the point of this thread other than saying:"Hey Bobby is not gay .. so which woman does he fancy?".

Man, i've never seen anyone so insecure about a comic character's sexuality ..

[Brian "Vash" Ashby]

Of course the relationships leave him out in the cold

He needs that hot gay sechs.

[claimtosubclaim]

Why are you so obsessed with comic book sex?

[Flâneur]

Why are you so obsessed with comic book sex?
Dude, Iceman is massively hung, who wouldn't be obsessed with his sex life?

WOOOH ICEPOLE! *licks*

[Flight]

Mystique obviously, as she can turn into Northstar!
hahahahah!!!~~~~~

[Schuimend Mormel]

I didn't vote, because I haven't read enough about Bobby's relationships in comic books TO vote. I liked the relationship with Lorna, but it was little more than physical attraction; and Lorna said that Bobby was fun but could sometimes be obnoxious.

Bobby maintains good friendships with Jean and Lorna, both of whom he had a crush on. I like Bobby and Jean moments.

Dude, Iceman is massively hung, who wouldn't be obsessed with his sex life?


That's not fair; Bobby can extend his extremities with ice.

[drwho]

I always like the opal relationship. Where is opal now?

[caney]

Zelda was so good to Bobby, and he had to go and totally screw up that relationship. He should have never let her go.

Opal was a TOTAL BITCH in the end. In the second Iceman mini she got him to come to Hong Kong by telling him she had his son and she needed Bobby's help to cure the boy of an illness. In reality, she was just trying to get him to come because an evil corporation she was working was blackmailing her so they could capture Iceman and use him in some experiment. Of course it wasn't really his son and Bobby somehow figured this out even before Opal told him in a video (she couldn't even say it to his face). He was all prepared to leave the X-men and be with Opal and her son anyways (how romantically awesome of him), but she up and leaves him again to go to Europe or something. So far as I know, that's the last we've seen of Opal.

[Hi-Fi]

Zelda was always the perfect option for Bobby, but he started treating her like garbage once Lorna came along (classic Bobby).

I'd love to see her back. She's one of my favorite humans in the X-Men history.

Rogue is just a friend, people. Plus, she obviously belongs to Cannonball.

[caney]

Zelda was always the perfect option for Bobby, but he started treating her like garbage once Lorna came along (classic Bobby).


Watch it Rogue Boy!!!! :mad:

He was written as such a jerk in "The Hidden Years".

[Hi-Fi]

Watch it Rogue Boy!!!! :mad:

He was written as such a jerk in "The Hidden Years".
Exactly!

"Hey, Zel! Can I crash here? It's just that my dear Lorna is with Alex now..."

Zelda was too good for him... at that time.

[Novaya Havoc]

Darkstar! As far as I'm convinced, Laynia realized the horrible mistake she made in leaving Bobby and the Champions, returned to America off panel, and had hot mutant sex with Bobby. Specter is actually their bastard love child. Shut up, its canon dammit. You'll see! You'll all see!

Plus, Darkstar's just way too unappreciated. Stupid Fantomex. When you have the option of shooting the bad guy or the good guy, you shoot the bad guy. You always shoot the bad guy! Not rocket science! (Yes, I get his 'on panel' reasons for shooting Darkstar, I'm just bitter. Sue me. :p

I second this like the dickens! THE DICKENS!

Love Darkstar.

[ProfeZZor X]

So what's the point of this thread other than saying:"Hey Bobby is not gay .. so which woman does he fancy?".

Man, i've never seen anyone so insecure about a comic character's sexuality ..

Over the course of 40 years, the people Robert Louis Drake has been romantically attached to is in plain text, and referenced in each comic he is featured in during those situations. Therefore, I am stating written and visual FACTS that Marvel Comics has presented to it's readers. Not speculation.

And as much as I know some individuals would like other sexual tendencies of his to come to light, this thread is based on factual characters and situations Marvel comics has had him dating in the past.

[Omega Alpha]

Over the course of 40 years, the people Robert Louis Drake has been romantically attached to is in plain text, and referenced in each comic he is featured in during those situations. Therefore, I am stating written and visual FACTS that Marvel Comics has presented to it's readers. Not speculation.

And as much as I know some individuals would like other sexual tendencies of his to come to light, this thread is based on factual characters and situations Marvel comics has had him dating in the past.

Really, why do you get so angry and defensive when anyone questions Iceman's sexuality? It's clearly bothering you a little too much...

[spoon_jenkins]

Opal and Bobby seemed to have chemistry. And he probably was even the more mature one in the relationship. I think the Louise Simonson era of X-Factor got a lot of stuff right. You can't judge Bobby-Opal (or any other comic relationship) solely by the period in which a writer decided to break it up by turning it into a crappy caricature.

[ProfeZZor X]

Really, why do you get so angry and defensive when anyone questions Iceman's sexuality? It's clearly bothering you a little too much...

There is no anger in my words... And everyone that disagrees with his hetrosexual history seems to think that I am. I've made it public many times in the past that whatever direction Mike Carey is going with Bobby's sexuality, I'm fine with it. But for the mean time, until Marvel uses an artist and a writter to illustrate Bobby's homosexual personality in their comic book pages, I have to go with what they have given us readers so far.

Little tidbits of speculation and scenarios aren't a valid reason to accuse him of being homosexual. I'll just leave it at that.

[Faded]

LOL whatev-ah.

Such foolish games, only two of those options are capable of implanting seeds of goo into Bobby's behind and you've already put one under the proverbial knife.

[rilokyle]

I like the name of this thread- very dramatic. Brrrrrrrrrrrr.

As for discussion purposes, I really do love Bobby with Mystique. I'm interested to see where Carey goes with this quasi-relationship.

[caney]

I've been enjoying the Iceman/Mystique flirtation so far too. He has a little "puppy love" crush on her and that's cute. Mystique's using him like a sexy little toy, though. Bobby's gonna need a shoulder to cry on before it's all over.

[Pro]

Therefore, I am stating written and visual FACTS that Marvel Comics has presented to it's readers. Not speculation.

Except that you specifically and comfortably ignore the fact that Cloud was not only a woman. You know .. written and visual facts and all that .. :)

[drwho]

Zelda was so good to Bobby, and he had to go and totally screw up that relationship. He should have never let her go.

Opal was a TOTAL BITCH in the end. In the second Iceman mini she got him to come to Hong Kong by telling him she had his son and she needed Bobby's help to cure the boy of an illness. In reality, she was just trying to get him to come because an evil corporation she was working was blackmailing her so they could capture Iceman and use him in some experiment. Of course it wasn't really his son and Bobby somehow figured this out even before Opal told him in a video (she couldn't even say it to his face). He was all prepared to leave the X-men and be with Opal and her son anyways (how romantically awesome of him), but she up and leaves him again to go to Europe or something. So far as I know, that's the last we've seen of Opal.

Wow, I never knew this side of the character. I'm glad I didnt waste my money on what sounds like something good for potty training dogs.

[Cowlander]

That IM mini was pretty good read. I think Skopttie did the art on that too, but I cant remember for sure.

[Christopher O]

Little tidbits of speculation and scenarios aren't a valid reason to accuse him of being homosexual. I'll just leave it at that.
Accuse him? Wow, how very telling. You deny having issues with the whole homosexual thing, but you're so very transparent. Let it go.

[caney]

That IM mini was pretty good read. I think Skopttie did the art on that too, but I cant remember for sure.

Yeah, I liked the mini too. It just didn't paint Opal in the best light. Most of the art was done by Karl Kerschl, but Skottie Young filled in on one of the issues.

[Toboe]

Cannonball :D

Aren't they the hottest couple?

http://img235.imageshack.us/img235/5015/lovend6.png

[claimtosubclaim]

This is absurd. We don't have to turn every Iceman thread a sexuality debate. Oh, and if Bobby were gay, no chance in hell he'd be with Northstar (or even Warren or Hank). The only person it would work with is Sam. I'm putting my chips on Betsy though.

[Brian "Vash" Ashby]

Hes been harboring a man crush on angel forever. Im sure if he got an image inducer and made himself look like Jean Angel would date him.

[Faded]

Cannonball :D

Aren't they the hottest couple?

http://img235.imageshack.us/img235/5015/lovend6.png

They made a really cute couple and that was a strangely romantic scene, but I've never seen Sam as gay (OH IRONY!). Anything's possible though, I guess. ;)

[Kalen O.]

Guys, can we not do this again, please? Maybe ProfeZZor X has issues with homosexuality, maybe he doesn't, I don't know. But its silly to think the only issue anyone could have with this eternal argument is because they're a homophobe. Its not exactly a secret that I hate this debate too, and I dare someone to say its because I have issues with homosexuality, lol.

Dudes, its just like.....the repetitiveness of it that's frustrating. Everyone whose posted so far in this thread has posted in every other thread about Bobby's sexuality before, not once, but multiple times. We all KNOW everyone's opinion on it, and we all know each other's opinions aren't going to change. At this point its just like.....how annoyed do you guys think Hi-Fi would get if EVERY SINGLE TIME he tried to discuss a possible new relationship for Rogue, or something like that, everyone piled into the thread to derail it and talk about 'hey, was Rogue sexually abused as a child or not? I think so and here's why blah blah blah'? Sure, its an interesting point to debate, and there are even valid things backing it up (see Vash for details), but at the end of the day, everyone's gonna have their own opinion, and never allowin anyone to discuss Rogue's current, ongoing relationships without bringing it back to the 'was she or wasn't she abused as a kid' debate....can you honestly not see how annoying that can get?

Maybe ProfeZZor X was a bit defensive right off the bat with his first post, but can you really blame him? Seriously? When we've all seen time and time again how right he is, to anticipate that any thread about Iceman's relationships is gonna get derailed within mere posts, and yet, bizarrely enough, the Iceman fan still wants to talk about his favorite character's actual CANON relationships in comparison with his current one, much the same way Cyclops, Angel and Rogue fans, etc, do with theirs? That's how I read it, because well, I genuinely wanted to do the same. As have like...five others here. Everyone else just seems to want to giggle about "heheh he likes the buttsechs" or play pin the tail on the homophobe instead. But hey, whatever, as long as you're all getting off on it.

Oh and for the record Omega Alpha? For real? You're honestly gonna sit there in the very first post of the thread and accuse ProfeZZor X of having an issue with Iceman's sexuality? Because I gotta say, that's the funniest damn thing I've read in this whole thread, seeing as how the second Iceman's name is mentioned anywhere, you're two posts behind, ready to pop up and inform everyone that guess what, he's gay. In a thread about preview scans of a future issue, showing Iceman alone, getting blasted by an enemy, your only oh so insightful observations tend to be along the line of 'too bad Northstar's not there to warm him up'. Please. Check your own post history, you have just as big an 'obsession' with his sexuality as anyone. Unless the only real purpose of your posts is to rile up the people who disagree with you, and watch them get angry about it. In which case you're not a hypocrite, you're just pathetic.

Whatever.

[Mikl C]

Guys, can we not do this again, please? Maybe ProfeZZor X has issues with homosexuality, maybe he doesn't, I don't know. But its silly to think the only issue anyone could have with this eternal argument is because they're a homophobe. Its not exactly a secret that I hate this debate too, and I dare someone to say its because I have issues with homosexuality, lol.

Dudes, its just like.....the repetitiveness of it that's frustrating. Everyone whose posted so far in this thread has posted in every other thread about Bobby's sexuality before, not once, but multiple times. We all KNOW everyone's opinion on it, and we all know each other's opinions aren't going to change. At this point its just like.....how annoyed do you guys think Hi-Fi would get if EVERY SINGLE TIME he tried to discuss a possible new relationship for Rogue, or something like that, everyone piled into the thread to derail it and talk about 'hey, was Rogue sexually abused as a child or not? I think so and here's why blah blah blah'? Sure, its an interesting point to debate, and there are even valid things backing it up (see Vash for details), but at the end of the day, everyone's gonna have their own opinion, and never allowin anyone to discuss Rogue's current, ongoing relationships without bringing it back to the 'was she or wasn't she abused as a kid' debate....can you honestly not see how annoying that can get?

Maybe ProfeZZor X was a bit defensive right off the bat with his first post, but can you really blame him? Seriously? When we've all seen time and time again how right he is, to anticipate that any thread about Iceman's relationships is gonna get derailed within mere posts, and yet, bizarrely enough, the Iceman fan still wants to talk about his favorite character's actual CANON relationships in comparison with his current one, much the same way Cyclops, Angel and Rogue fans, etc, do with theirs? That's how I read it, because well, I genuinely wanted to do the same. As have like...five others here. Everyone else just seems to want to giggle about "heheh he likes the buttsechs" or play pin the tail on the homophobe instead. But hey, whatever, as long as you're all getting off on it.

Oh and for the record Omega Alpha? For real? You're honestly gonna sit there in the very first post of the thread and accuse ProfeZZor X of having an issue with Iceman's sexuality? Because I gotta say, that's the funniest damn thing I've read in this whole thread, seeing as how the second Iceman's name is mentioned anywhere, you're two posts behind, ready to pop up and inform everyone that guess what, he's gay. In a thread about preview scans of a future issue, showing Iceman alone, getting blasted by an enemy, your only oh so insightful observations tend to be along the line of 'too bad Northstar's not there to warm him up'. Please. Check your own post history, you have just as big an 'obsession' with his sexuality as anyone. Unless the only real purpose of your posts is to rile up the people who disagree with you, and watch them get angry about it. In which case you're not a hypocrite, you're just pathetic.

Whatever.


Do you have a problem with fagz or something?
Haemophobe!

[Kalen O.]

Do you have a problem with fagz or something?
Haemophobe!

Lol, that's it. No cyber sexing for you tonight!

[Novaya Havoc]

They made a really cute couple and that was a strangely romantic scene, but I've never seen Sam as gay (OH IRONY!). Anything's possible though, I guess. ;)

Anyone that looks like Sam who finds Lila Cheney hot is clearly not dreamin' for a little lady-lovin'.

[samil87]

They say a picture is worth a thousand words... If that's the case I think that picture is the equivalent of a chapter in a Jackie Collins novel :eek:
No offense but the gay discussion is kind of inevitable if anyone brings up Bobby's romantic relationships. The fact is some people think he's gay/bisexual and tbh giving the option of 'Cloud (female form only)' is an invitation for criticism.
Anyway (since I can't say Sam ;) ) my vote goes for Mystique because the relationship hasn't been depicted yet, since he broke up with all of the others he probably wasn't too compatible with any of them.
The most offensive thing about this topic is the 9th option, *shakes head* Austen OC's don't exist, he never even wrote for the X-Books, ever ;)
Real life Marvel events can be retconned right? :D

[Faded]

They say a picture is worth a thousand words... If that's the case I think that picture is the equivalent of a chapter in a Jackie Collins novel :eek:
No offense but the gay discussion is kind of inevitable if anyone brings up Bobby's romantic relationships. The fact is some people think he's gay/bisexual and tbh giving the option of 'Cloud (female form only)' is an invitation for criticism.
Anyway (since I can't say Sam ;) ) my vote goes for Mystique because the relationship hasn't been depicted yet, since he broke up with all of the others he probably wasn't too compatible with any of them.
The most offensive thing about this topic is the 9th option, *shakes head* Austen OC's don't exist, he never even wrote for the X-Books, ever ;)
Real life Marvel events can be retconned right? :D

Keep typing from my head, baby.

I was about to say something similar, but it just didn't come out as well as you put it.

*backspaces*

[Faded]

Anyone that looks like Sam who finds Lila Cheney hot is clearly not dreamin' for a little lady-lovin'.

Maybe he likes smelly tuna?

[Kalen O.]

They say a picture is worth a thousand words... If that's the case I think that picture is the equivalent of a chapter in a Jackie Collins novel :eek:
No offense but the gay discussion is kind of inevitable if anyone brings up Bobby's romantic relationships. The fact is some people think he's gay/bisexual and tbh giving the option of 'Cloud (female form only)' is an invitation for criticism.
Anyway (since I can't say Sam ;) ) my vote goes for Mystique because the relationship hasn't been depicted yet, since he broke up with all of the others he probably wasn't too compatible with any of them.
The most offensive thing about this topic is the 9th option, *shakes head* Austen OC's don't exist, he never even wrote for the X-Books, ever ;)
Real life Marvel events can be retconned right? :D

If its really that inevitable, then I'd hope people would be a little more receptive to someone maintaning their belief that he isn't gay, whatever their own reasons are. Seeing as how that's an inevitable response too. And I understand what you're saying about Cloud, but at the same time, what everyone forgets to mention when bringing her up, is no one, least of all Bobby, had any way of knowing Cloud would eventually turn into a guy, how would they? And once she did....Bobby STOPPED dating her, although they remained friends. So for a thread dedicated to sticking to actual canon relationships, I don't see anything about (female form only) that invites criticism, unless someone's looking to bring it anyways. Bobby never actually dated Cloud in any other form than female, so the qualification is hardly out of line. To me, it reads more as 'I know people are going to bring up Cloud anyways, so let me put female form only, to try and head off any attempts to derail with Iceman is gay'. Again, is that really so offensive?

(Oh and for the record, since this thread is long since derailed anyways, Iceman and Cannonball would be totally hot. And I agree completely with the Nurse Annie assessment. You'll notice I didn't mention her either, heh).

[samil87]

I phrased something well...scary. Guess that flying pig I commisioned is finished, a crime against nature yes, an afront to God, very probably, but in the pursuit of put together good sentence type thing no cost is too great ;)

[ProfeZZor X]

Except that you specifically and comfortably ignore the fact that Cloud was not only a woman. You know .. written and visual facts and all that .. :)

VISUALLY, Bobby wasn't hugging all over Cloud when it transformed into a man. And he didn't VERBALLY state that he was still attracted to Cloud at that time either.

...You see, these are instances where believers like yourself speculate when it's clearly not there in front of any of us. Check out the actual page on UXM.net

[samil87]

I totally agree with you Kalen, I think everyone is entitled to their opinion, and accusations of homophobia (as well as the derailment) are really not justified here. As a gay guy I think it's stupid to make such an accusation, especially if (as it appears to be) it's unfounded.
On the Cloud point it's pointless not to include the whole character because she doesn't just have a female form, in considering compatability her being of no specific gender is fairly important (and could actually be a reason for them not to be compatible).
I dunno, doesn't bother me really, except that I think to just considering part of her character (then refering to her as an it) defeats the purpose of including her, but I can get how it could bother some people.
It's like me asking, how well suited is Bobby to Kurt romantically (ignoring their apparent hetrosexuality) ;)

[Kalen O.]

I totally agree with you Kalen, I think everyone is entitled to their opinion, and accusations of homophobia (as well as the derailment) are really not justified here. As a gay guy I think it's stupid to make such an accusation, especially if (as it appears to be) it's unfounded.
On the Cloud point it's pointless not to include the whole character because she doesn't just have a female form, in considering compatability her being of no specific gender is fairly important (and could actually be a reason for them not to be compatible).
I dunno, doesn't bother me really, except that I think to just considering part of her character (then refering to her as an it) defeats the purpose of including her, but I can get how it could bother some people.
It's like me asking, how well suited is Bobby to Kurt romantically (ignoring their apparent hetrosexuality) ;)

Hmm, that's actually a good point, hadn't look at it that way. Of course, I still don't see her as all that compatible with him, due to the whole 'off being a sentient nebula light years away' thing. Cloud should randomly pop up and help Havok et al kick Vulcan's ass and come back to the X-Men. Just saying.

[slugzilla]

I've always wanted to see Rogue & Iceman together. Ever since that roadtrip they took together back in the day. I think they're pretty much perfect for each other.

It really stinks that you can't have a thread about Iceman these days without it being hijacked by a a few people trying to ruin the fun for real Iceman fans. I don't have a problem with people who say he's gay, but it seems to me that a large portion of the people that do say it, are just saying it to piss off the folks that think he's straight. And that really stinks.

I mean, in every thread related to Iceman. It seems like the same couple of people just pop in with some "witty" little remark about how Iceman is gay. And most of the time, it's obvious to me at least, that they are just trying to cause trouble. Even if the thread is intended to have nothing to do with Iceman's sexuality. That seems wrong to me. If you ask me, the mods should really do something about this crap.

[claimtosubclaim]

I think I'd be more interested in seeing development in the Bobby/Rogue friendship moreso than a relationship, especially since Remy isn't occupying all of her chill time. Maybe in 204, we'll get some cool beats between Rogue and Bobby, cause so far, it's hard to shoot the breeze when you're kidnapped/infected/comatose like Rogue's been in the last 5 issues.

Kalen and samil, the last page has been the most reasonable Ice-talk I've seen on this debate. Thanks. Maybe there's hope for internet message boards yet.

[caney]

All this debate over Bobby and Cloud got me thinking back to their whole relationship. In the end she turned out not to be a man or a woman. She was a nebulous clould destined to one day become a star. The real debate should be, is it OK to be in love with a sentient celestial body? :p

As cheesy as it may have been, I loved the way it ended up. Cloud's heartfelt farewell to Bobby made me all teary.

http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i205/caney11/Defenders150001.jpg

http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i205/caney11/Defenders150002.jpg

[ibrakeforchinwe]

Oddly enough I really think he and Mystique will work out.

[Hi-Fi]

Cloud's heartfelt farewell to Bobby made me all teary.
What. A. Girl. :rolleyes:

[caney]

What. A. Girl. :rolleyes:

I want someone to shine my light through the heavens in a few million years!!!

[samil87]

Well my heart's not really in it and I don't think I'll live millions of years, but since nobody else has offered I'll give it a try :rolleyes:

[caney]

Well my heart's not really in it and I don't think I'll live millions of years, but since nobody else has offered I'll give it a try :rolleyes:

Why thank you!!! Now we should talk about colors. I was thinking the light should be a brilliant blue with a bit of green. It should be bright, but not too bright (like those new headlights lots of cars seem to have that are great for them cause they light up the whole road, but they shine so intensely that they blind everyone else in a 20 mile radius... I HATE THOSE).

[Kalen O.]

What. A. Girl. :rolleyes:

Says the guy still crying over Rogue's condition in the last X-Men issue, lol.

[Hi-Fi]

Says the guy still crying over Rogue's condition in the last X-Men issue, lol.
F*ck!

*starts crying again*

[samil87]

Sorry, but I think the best I can manage is some 32 year old Christmas tree lights dangled out of a bus window. As for brightness, it really depends on how many of the bulbs are working. But I promise you, it'll be very tasteful and understated :) .





btw anyone willing to supply bus fare beacuse I really don't think I should have to pay ;)

[drwho]

Can someone tell me how the mystique relationship here got so popular? The woman is sadistic and manipulative. Why would anyone wish that on Bobby?They are not a love match. If anything she would use him for her boy toy. As for who mystique should be with i thought she had good chemistry with forge in xfactor.

[Hi-Fi]

Can someone tell me how the mystique relationship here got so popular? The woman is sadistic and manipulative. Why would anyone wish that on Bobby?They are not a love match. If anything she would use him for her boy toy.
So what? We like it because it's interesting and fresh and fun, not because we want to see them have hundreds of babies and living happily ever after.

[samil87]

I'm not sure, maybe it's just the slow build up of the relationship and because it's quite unusual. Plus, maybe Mystique really has changed.

[Kalen O.]

Can someone tell me how the mystique relationship here got so popular? The woman is sadistic and manipulative. Why would anyone wish that on Bobby?They are not a love match. If anything she would use him for her boy toy. As for who mystique should be with i thought she had good chemistry with forge in xfactor.

Yeah, but Bobby can totally soothe the savage breast! And then he'll be all hahah, Forge sucks at giving the good lovin'. Maybe Moira would still be alive if he was better in bed and helped keep Mystique on the side of good! Or something.

I dunno. Sides, I don't think Bobby and Raven are in love, or even likely to be any time soon, but just the idea of them together intrigues me. Its the whole playing with fire thing, because Bobby knows damn well that she's dangerous and can't be trusted, but seems drawn to her anyways. I imagine sleeping with Mystique is a bit like playing Russian Roulette. That's hot.

But then again, I'm a supremely warped individual. So all my interests are subject to scrutiny.

[Brian "Vash" Ashby]

Why is Forge such a lesbian magnet anyway?

[caney]

We like it because it's interesting and fresh and fun, not because we want to see them have hundreds of babies and living happily ever after.

I agree with this. I don't think it's going to end well, but it's fun to watch. Normal relationships are OK, but they can get boring. At least with Bobby and Raven, you're not sure what's gonna happen. That's what I like about it.

[Kalen O.]

Lol, its the train-wreck appeal. It seems most agree its not likely to end well, and that just makes it more intriguing. Like you know you should look away from a train wreck, but you can't resist turning around to look back at it as you drive by. Ahh, morbidity.

[samil87]

You're all so cynical ;) I could see them lasting, well at least until Rogue recovers and gives her opinion (albeit she'll probably be more violent than verbal ;) ). Either that or until someone reminds Bobby that he's dating a woman old enough to be his grandmother (maybe even great grand mother) :eek:

[Kalen O.]

Heheheh, Mystique the great-great-grandMILF.

[samil87]

Heheheh, Mystique the great-great-grandMILF.


lol, why do I think that term is never going to be applied to anyone (real or fictional) except Mystique ;)

[Omega Alpha]

Why is Forge such a lesbian magnet anyway?

That's because when they want to pretend they are not lesbians, they always go to the most boring guy around, so that when they break-up, they can pretend is just because he's as interesting as watching paint dry. And Forge is always the most boring guy around.

[Flâneur]

All this debate over Bobby and Cloud got me thinking back to their whole relationship. In the end she turned out not to be a man or a woman. She was a nebulous clould destined to one day become a star. The real debate should be, is it OK to be in love with a sentient celestial body? :p

As cheesy as it may have been, I loved the way it ended up. Cloud's heartfelt farewell to Bobby made me all teary.
http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i205/caney11/Defenders150002.jpg

This cements my belief in a Cloud/Bobby pairing, the only X-couples that profess this kind of love are the ones who are set up as 'destined' - like something Jean would say to Scott.

[claimtosubclaim]

lol, why do I think that term is never going to be applied to anyone (real or fictional) except Mystique ;)

It's already on Scrubs!

The Todd is wearing a Gilf shirt.

[ProfeZZor X]

This cements my belief in a Cloud/Bobby pairing, the only X-couples that profess this kind of love are the ones who are set up as 'destined' - like something Jean would say to Scott.

I really woundn't say this scenario confirms Bobby's sexuality as homosexual. In fact, he really didn't say much in the first place, since Cloud seems to be doing all of the talking and explaining. If Bobby was that hell-bent on being with Cloud, he would have convinced it not to leave.

[samil87]

Nobody said it did make him gay- Cloud in fact has no gender really so the relationship wasn't heterosexual or homosexual in nature.
Honestly stop getting so hung up on gender that story is supposed to be about the affection between the two of them (possibly showing that love has no gender), quit trying to twist it to suit agendas. It's a completely moot point either way as Cloud's gender was flexible, she changed it to suit who she fell on love with (for example developed in male form when she was in love with Moondragon).
Cloud is effectively part of a third gender imo, or at least a member of both the male and female genders, if she even belongs to any of the three.
But again, I think the CLoud/Bobby reltionship is about what two people can contribute to each other regardless of gender (it's right there in black and white- "When you asked me Bobby....It is someone who loves you best of all".
As the expression goes the heart wants what it wants, it's the person who matters not their gender.
While it may not suggest Bobby is gay/bi, the Cloud story is clearly about gender identities and even has parralels for GLBT relationships. Deny that is ignorance of the facts imo.
There are even political points about gender equality that can be taken from that.

[Titan76]

He didn't have the hots for Jean, being the only X-man that didn't back then.
Unless this somehow was retcon in Classic X-men yes he did have the hots for Jean. When Jean first showed up yeah Bobby wasn't interested because he hadn't saw her yet but was right there with Hank and Warren watching Jean looking at herself with her costume on and was pretty much drooling over her with the other two. And in Uncanny X-men #3 he and the other guys(expect Scott) were racing to get to Jean first wanting to be the one to partner up with her to find the new mutant which turn out to be the Blob and got piss that Warren was the one who got to team up with her. Plus many more issues.

As for the thread, my favorite of his relationships was him and Opal. I didn't read the Iceman mini so I can pretend that it never happen and just remember how great he and Opal were together.:D

[Brian M.]

Bobby and Hank shared a bathroom back in the early days of Xavier's. Hank use to take these huge craps and would always need plunging. The plunger would be left in the shower to rinse off. Well one morning all sleepy eyed, Bobby got into the shower. He was clumsy and fell back onto the plunger. Ever since then Bobby has been just a little curious.

[Flâneur]

Interestingly enough, I see huge similarities between the Cloud/Bobby relationship and the Fool/Fitz one in Robin Hobb's Farseer and Tawny Man Trilogies. Similar reactions, similar lines, similar ending.
I really woundn't say this scenario confirms Bobby's sexuality as homosexual. In fact, he really didn't say much in the first place, since Cloud seems to be doing all of the talking and explaining. If Bobby was that hell-bent on being with Cloud, he would have convinced it not to leave.
I never said anything about his sexuality? So I'm not sure why you're raising the issue? The thread begged the question of who is most suited to being with Bobby, and part of my belief in Cloud's suitability is the sentiment Cloud displayed on that panel. He also expressed affection and interest in Cloud previous to that moment and also sorrow at Cloud's leaving.

As for his discomfort with Cloud's male form, they could be attributed to any number of reasons which don't necessarily argue either way for his sexuality. Reasons it appears he has grown out of considering what is happening between he and Mystique. If he's able to engage in this relationship then perhaps he is now mature enough to deal with one between he and Cloud.

[Titan76]

Since no one has voted for Cloud why are people talking about him/her whatever the hell it is?

[Flâneur]

Since no one has voted for Cloud why are people talking about him/her whatever the hell it is?

I'm not voting for 'Cloud (female form only)' because its silly and such a pairing doesn't exist. Cloud in its entirety is a different matter altogether. Then again I'm pedantic and I'm in a course that shoves feminism and queer theory down people's throats. So might be different for others.

[Pro]

...You see, these are instances where believers like yourself speculate when it's clearly not there in front of any of us. Check out the actual page on UXM.net

Nah, these are instances where someone conveniently ignores aspects of a character. I dont give a damn whether or not he is gay, won't change my life either way. But i do find it funny when someone makes a thread that basically says:"Iceman is straight, now which woman fits best to be with him .. oh and ignore that Cloud was not a woman".

Either Cloud fits because of who she is or she doesn't fit because of who she is but ignoring her obvious double-sided sexuality was bound to stir reactions.

[The Sword Is Drawn]

Nah, these are instances where someone conveniently ignores aspects of a character. I dont give a damn whether or not he is gay, won't change my life either way. But i do find it funny when someone makes a thread that basically says:"Iceman is straight, now which woman fits best to be with him .. oh and ignore that Cloud was not a woman".

Either Cloud fits because of who she is or she doesn't fit because of who she is but ignoring her obvious double-sided sexuality was bound to stir reactions.


I know what you mean. I think people would have been more receptive to the option, had it been listed as "Cloud (Although technically she was Male AND Female)" or something similar.

[DDM]

I believe Moondragon had an attraction to Cloud in his/her male form as well during The New Defenders; however, Cloud, although a sentient amnesiac nebula, was like a child in its incarnate, physical form. In many ways, it still is a child because a nebula can exist for hundreds thousands of yeas before changing into something else...

Cloud made a interesting concept & fit well into The New Defenders.

[DDM]

I'm not sure, maybe it's just the slow build up of the relationship and because it's quite unusual. Plus, maybe Mystique really has changed.

I believe Mystique may be written to think she has changed when she has not.

[lament]

Over the course of 40 years, the people Robert Louis Drake has been romantically attached to is in plain text, and referenced in each comic he is featured in during those situations. Therefore, I am stating written and visual FACTS that Marvel Comics has presented to it's readers. Not speculation.

And as much as I know some individuals would like other sexual tendencies of his to come to light, this thread is based on factual characters and situations Marvel comics has had him dating in the past

Seriously dude, why do you get so defensive when someone questions Bobby's sexuality? Would the sky fall if Bobby turned out to be gay or bi?

[Brian M.]

Seriously dude, why do you get so defensive when someone questions Bobby's sexuality? Would the sky fall if Bobby turned out to be gay or bi?

It would literally rain men.

[Kalen O.]

Seriously dude, why do you get so defensive when someone questions Bobby's sexuality? Would the sky fall if Bobby turned out to be gay or bi?

While I'd love to see him develop bi tendencies as a result of his powers (ironically, he's now quite similar to Cloud in a lot of ways, a force of nature in human form....that makes him nearly immortal, could it also make his human form malleable?), I'd seriously hate it if Bobby was retconned into having been in the closet all these years. I dunno about anyone else, but some of my favorite Iceman stories were the road trip issues with Bobby's dad, and O:ZT later. And given that Bobby's storyline with his father was such an obvious paralell to homophobia to begin with, him standing up to his father loses a LOT of impact if Bobby's suddenly revealed to have been suppressing his true sexuality while doing it. Not to mention the fact that his speech to Bastion at the end of OZT is what made him my favorite X-Man altogether and that too becomes almost meaningless if all of a sudden, he's in major denial the whole time he's been fighting for minority equality. This isn't just any X-Man we're talking about 'outing', its Iceman, pretty much the one X-Man whose EVERY storyline not dedicated to his powers has been focused on issues of race hatred, bigotry, and facing up to the prejudices of even his own family. Suddenly reversing all that with a 'btw, he's been in the closet the whole time' pretty much makes him the biggest hypocrite in comics. I don't know about anyone else, but that's a pretty good reason for me to be against the idea.

Because its not like Beast fans dont rant all the time about cat Beast, and there are no Cyke fans that hate his relationship with Emma, no Warren fans that go back and forth and back and forth on ArchangelWarren vs plain AngelWarren, NOBODY goes overboard bitching about how retcons have ruined Xavier and made him OMG!Evil, Gambit fans don't blame Lobdell for nearly ruining the character with the Mutant Massacre connection, Polaris fans don't bitch about her being made Magneto's daughter, Nightcrawler fans don't despise the Draco, Colossus fans didn't think the Rasputin connection was idiotic, Storm fans didn't get up in arms about Black Panther, Wolverine fans aren't currently bitching about Lupine descended Logan, Betsy fans don't go anti-Asian Betsy ever, etc etc etc ad nauseam ad infinatum.

Seriously, you people act like 'pro-straight Iceman' fans are the only ones who've ever been strenuously against a certain character change. I mean, we all have SUCH a history of regularly applauding major character retcons.

[spoon_jenkins]

Aside from what Kalen wrote, another reason someone might not want a character to be revealed to be gay is how it redefines his/her previous heterosexual relationships. Now, the character retroactively was either in denial or faking it in previous relationships. It may seem to sap the meaning of previous events (like how a lot of fans think the return of Jean Grey robbed the death of the Phoenix of a lot of its power/impact).

That's sort of how I felt about Willow (from Buffy) being rewritten as a lesbian. To me, the Willow-Xander relationship was the most interesting romantic relationship in the series. But Willow's crush on Xander and their secret relationship (cheating on their significant others) seemed to lose impact when it turned out Willow was gay.

I don't feel that strongly about any of Iceman's past relationships (although I liked the Iceman-Opal pairing), but there may be fans who liked his past relationships and would be disappointed if it seemed that Bobby wasn't fully invested in those relationships because he was actually gay.

[Omega Alpha]

Aside from what Kalen wrote, another reason someone might not want a character to be revealed to be gay is how it redefines his/her previous heterosexual relationships. Now, the character retroactively was either in denial or faking it in previous relationships. It may seem to sap the meaning of previous events (like how a lot of fans think the return of Jean Grey robbed the death of the Phoenix of a lot of its power/impact).

Not necessarily. Specially not in Iceman's case, who never had a deep relationship with any woman and whose relationships already indicate he is or might be gay, to me at least, and to many. If Cyclops was revealed to be gay or that Wolverine just pretending he had feelings for Mariko, for example, that would be huge and completely redefine those previous relationships and the history of the characters. However, since Bobby was never really in love with a woman, it's perfectly possible.


I don't feel that strongly about any of Iceman's past relationships (although I liked the Iceman-Opal pairing), but there may be fans who liked his past relationships and would be disappointed if it seemed that Bobby wasn't fully invested in those relationships because he was actually gay.

But Bobby was never fully invested in any relationship, period. It might not be because he's gay, but it happened.

[ProfeZZor X]

But Bobby was never fully invested in any relationship, period. It might not be because he's gay, but it happened.

That much I agree with you on. He may not be the experienced cassanova Gambit is, but he does have charm and the boyish gleem in his eyes that has granted him the women he has encountered so far. But like most young men of his age, he is still finding his way in life, and a part of that also means failure through trial and error.

And for the record, this thread is not about whether or not he is gay, because I can care less. It's about comparison of his past relationships, versus the one he is about to take part in with Mystique, and which of these/those women are better suited for him. You can take it for what it is, or go on believing there is an alterior motive up my sleeve. Either way, it is what it is....not to sound defensive or anything.

[DDM]

Not necessarily. Specially not in Iceman's case, who never had a deep relationship with any woman and whose relationships already indicate he is or might be gay, to me at least, and to many. If Cyclops was revealed to be gay or that Wolverine just pretending he had feelings for Mariko, for example, that would be huge and completely redefine those previous relationships and the history of the characters. However, since Bobby was never really in love with a woman, it's perfectly possible.

Bobby's sexuality is not the issue here. I believe Bobby has not vested much into women simply because he, apparently, does not need to be in constant relationships to validate himself. To be sure, much of Bobby's issues with women lay within his own emotional maturity in that he is still very much child-like with deep emotional issues. Instead of confronting them, he would rather be the prankster. Louise Simonson balanced out the prankster & the serious Bobby throughout X-Factor such as when he gave his riveting speech on national television about mutants rights in X-Factor #17. He can be serious when he needs to be.

[We R. Venom]

I voted for Mystique and said that Rogue would be a great choice too, . I was thinking and never really got why Emma would be a a good fit for him other than their names. Theres no reason i can think for them to be together at all. Their not close to compatible. I also Agree with you DDM but I was too lazy to do anything. Havnt been here a while.

[Brian "Vash" Ashby]

Again with the bobby prankster stuff?

Bobby hasnt been fun since like 1990. Its been pure emo bobby for like 17 years.

[We R. Venom]

Again with the bobby prankster stuff?

Bobby hasnt been fun since like 1990. Its been pure emo bobby for like 17 years.

I'm sorry, I can't take this anymore, what the **** does Emo mean? Since your using it to describe Iceman, I wanna know.

[Brian M.]

Emo = Sissy.

[We R. Venom]

Emo = Sissy.

I didn't believe you so i looked it up myself. Bobby is no where near "Emo." Kids and their stupid words.:rolleyes:

[Brian "Vash" Ashby]

No emo is when someone is all pissy and depressed despite not having any actual real reason to be

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6LXtYsdfMIU

[Slung]

No emo is when someone is all pissy and depressed despite not having any actual real reason to be

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6LXtYsdfMIU

Huh, found that video pretty offensive. So, besides categorizing an entire fashion set as suicidal idiots, it equated being gay with being stupid. Nice.:rolleyes:

[jen]

Huh, found that video pretty offensive. So, besides categorizing an entire fashion set as suicidal idiots, it equated being gay with being stupid. Nice.:rolleyes:

I agree that was pretty pathetic. :rolleyes:

[Brian "Vash" Ashby]

Oh parts of it are

But i linked it mostly for the whole "i have no real problems but i like to make believe" stuff.

Ive never seen someone whine so much over nothings like Iceman. He was actually sitting there one time complaining about his family to rogue. TO ROGUE

Crazy.


This is flawed thinking by the writers

Is bobby probably hugely depressed? Sure. But people who are that depressed dont really show it and they often, like bobby of old, hide it with the whole class clown stuff.

[caney]

Ive never seen someone whine so much over nothings like Iceman. He was actually sitting there one time complaining about his family to rogue. TO ROGUE


Maybe he's trying to fix his problem by JOINING Rogue's family. :p

I hope whiny Iceman is gone for good now. Carey's taken him away from that so far. I want the fun, capable, a bit insecure, but always there for you when you need him Iceman (like in OZT). I also like the young, fun, scene stealing Iceman Jeff Parker writes in First Class.

[ProfeZZor X]

Maybe he's trying to fix his problem by JOINING Rogue's family. :p

I hope whiny Iceman is gone for good now. Carey's taken him away from that so far. I want the fun, capable, a bit insecure, but always there for you when you need him Iceman (like in OZT). I also like the young, fun, scene stealing Iceman Jeff Parker writes in First Class.

I'm with you 100% on that one... We'll just see if Carey's version matches Parker's version in the upcoming #200 plus issues... And there's a good bet that Mystique might dump him, or he's playing her.

[Citizen V]

I voted for Cloud.Lorna is best with Alex,i cant believe she is on the poll.

[ProfeZZor X]

I voted for Cloud.Lorna is best with Alex,i cant believe she is on the poll.

I only had ten multiple choices to post, so it was either her or Jean. But seeing that he and Jean never really got together officially, I left her out of the poll. Besides, looking at how each character is now, I don't see them together....

Though with both of them being "Omega Class" mutants, it would be interesting to see how their kids came out and what they would have been capable of.

[caney]

Oooooh, I just remembered that Bobby also went out with Firestar for a few weeks. It was in McKeever's Spider-Man Family: Amazing Friends special. It was set in the past but they said it's in continuity.

[Mikl C]

I could get behind my beloved Firestar dating Bobby!

[Christopher O]

Despite my interest in seeing Bobby suck on popsicles of a different sort, I do have a soft spot for Spider-Man and His Amazing Friends. I could totally get behind Iceman/Firestar. Of course, a Bobby/Vance pairing would be even better.

[caney]

I could get behind my beloved Firestar dating Bobby!

Peter set them up. They went on cute crime-fighting dates!!!

[ProfeZZor X]

Peter set them up. They went on cute crime-fighting dates!!!

That was a pretty enjoyable read... It's s shame they broke up in the end. Funny though, because it seemed like the writer had a feel for the characters, and that genre back then. The only thing that didn't seem right was having MJ in it. Aunt May should have been the one that nursed him back to health.... And where was Miss Lyon?