Cable TV Networks That Sold Out Its Original Purpose/Vision

[TMC1982]

Examples:
The USA Network - Was initially a niche channel that had something for everyone:
*The Cartoon Express in the afternoons/early evenings for kids (coming home from school). There was also the "Calliope" anthology series for kids on Sunday mornings.
*Game shows (e.g. "Press Your Luck") in mid-afternoons.
*Made for TV movies for the Lifetime crowd.
*The old WWF/WWE (e.g. "Prime Time Wrestling", All-American Wrestling", "Tuesday Night Titans", etc.) and "Tuesday Night Fights" for the sports entertainment fan.
*Movies from every genre virtually every night.
*"Night Flight" and "Dance Party USA" for the music crowd.
*Bad B-movies on Friday nights (via "USA Up All-Night" and "Commander USA's Groovie Movies").

Now, USA is composed primarily of countless "Law & Order" and "Walker, Texas Ranger" reruns, the occassional "Monk", and all action/horror flicks.

VH1 - Initially was an adult contemporary variation of MTV with entertaining music related shows like "Pop-Up Video", "Behind the Music", "Rock & Roll Jeopary!" and "The List" thrown in for good measure. Now, VH1 is pretty much a one-dimensional, pop culture, celebrity lifestyle/gossip channel. VH1 pretty much suffered the same fate as MTV, as it relies too heavily now on reality, soap opera-ish programming instead of flat out music oriented programming.

MTV2 (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/23HoursofNonMusicTelevision/) - Started off as an answer of sorts to viewers concerns that the regular MTV wasn't showing enough music videos. MTV2 was pretty much at first, what MTV was in its early years. Now, MTV2 is simply a dumping ground for whatever show(s) the regular MTV doesn't have room for on its current schedule.

ESPN2 - Started off as an edgy, hip, "Gen-X" flavored alternative to the regular ESPN. Now, ESPN2 is pretty much a dumping ground for whatever the regular ESPN doesn't have room for.

ESPN Classic - Started off as the Classic Sports Network (before ESPN took over). Its purpose was to show old television broadcasts of legendary games/moments in sports history. Now, it's run on the cheap, with little more than "not so classic" sports (i.e. not involving the NBA, NFL, NHL, NCAA, or MLB). There's way too much boxing and ESPN produced material (i.e. ESPN produced "classic" broadcasts) to justify the "Classic" label.

FX - Started off as a niche channel (i.e. "something for everyone") that combined rebroadcasts of kitschy shows (e.g. the Adam West Batman series), live, interactive original programming (all from a New York City apartment). Now, FX is pretty much the HBO of basic cable (shows that are deemed "too edgy" for the Fox Broadcasting Company/Fox Network).

The Disney Channel - Pretty much panders exclusively to pre-schoolers and tweens instead of all ages. Hence, virtually anything mildly nostalgic is no were to be found. Apparently, Disney figured that their live-action sitcoms (as well as stuff like "High School Musical") like "That's So Raven", "Lizzie Maguire", "Suite Life of Zack and Cody", "Hannah Montana", etc. were getting better ratings then anything of the classic/vintage Disney material.

Black Entertainment Television - At first, featured numerous public affairs programming, reruns of old (sometimes short-lived) black-centric sitcoms, some sports (typically, historically black college football), and music that normally, MTV wasn't airing at the time. After Viacom takes over, they phase out the public affairs programming (and seemingly, a lot of original programming in general) and in comes crude stuff like "BET Late Night."

Fuse - At first, prided itself into being the "anti-MTV", in that it vowed that it would be about music and not reality-television. Now, Fuse is airing junk like "The Whitest Kids You Now" (I haven't seen it, but it appears like a "Kids in the Hall"/"The State" knock off), "Rad Girls" (the female verison of "Jackass"), movies like "Half Baked" and "Halloween 4", and the topper, "Pants Off Dance Off" (which is music centric, but utter sleeze and exploitation).

[Young Avenger]

How could you not include G4? It used to have all kinds of decent Video Game related programming on the network. Now it's a carbon copy of Spike TV.

[Kevin Vetter]

I'd say the history channel. I used to always watch it and now it's become the ufo channel with a few modern marvels sprinkled in between.

[blackdragon6]

in bet's defense they wasn't getting any ad revenue,despite it being a highly rated network.they was getting good rating but had nothing to show for it essentially.i guess black consumer money isn't good enough i guess.which is why bob johnson was forced to sell it.but i heard he really didn't want too.


in fact BET STILL looks underfunded even after being sold to viacom.

but yeah this topic was brought up before
http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?t=64924&highlight=tavis

[Donald M.]

FX is a better network since it started to change its focus to original dramas. People can call it "The HBO of Basic Cable" all they want, but HBO doesn't have the trademark on edgy original dramas and for that matter, overall FX has the better stable of original shows right now, though HBO has the best single show in The Wire.

As for USA, there's just no place in the cable lineup anymore for the kind of channel USA used to be. All that stuff is covered by other networks, several other networks in some cases. USA has sold out, it's change with the times in order to survive.

It's not even like USA's old format was a vision or a purpose so much as filling their airtime with whatever crap they could get on the cheap.

[Ugoff]

USA Network is great. I've watched it forever. You can still catch Press Your Luck on the Games channel. USA also has original shows in Psych and The 4400. Both of which have been very successful, so I think we can expect alot more entertaining original shows from them in the future.

I would also mention the Sci Fi Channel but I wont go in depth about it.

I cant believe how awful FUSE has become. It's just down right wrong, although I dont have the channel anymore I keep track of their programming. It's quite depressing but oh well.

MTV2 should be f**king free since it's so useless. What's the point? Ugh. It pisses me off just thinking about it. They are really doing people wrong. The cable providers dont offer you a different channel in some plans in place of MTV2 for some reason which sucks.

[StoneGold]

And CBS used to revolve around hillbilly shows in the 60s. Evolve or die.

[Atom_basher]

in bet's defense they wasn't getting any ad revenue,despite it being a highly rated network.they was getting good rating but had nothing to show for it essentially.i guess black consumer money isn't good enough i guess.which is why bob johnson was forced to sell it.but i heard he really didn't want too.


in fact BET STILL looks underfunded even after being sold to viacom.

but yeah this topic was brought up before
http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?t=64924&highlight=tavis

couldnt agreee any more, i ts sad how low quality things on BET looks compared to VH1 and mtv, hell bets highest rated show is 106 and park, and when you compare the production value something like TRL is sad

[blackdragon6]

Evolve or die.
and in other cases evolve and die :p

[Tish-the-Scorpion]

couldnt agreee any more, i ts sad how low quality things on BET looks compared to VH1 and mtv, hell bets highest rated show is 106 and park, and when you compare the production value something like TRL is sadnot only that 106 was murdering TRL,in fact i think thats the reason why TRL changed time slots i believe.they didn't want to go up against it.but like someone said in another topic the mint thats dropped on TRL can fund the whole BET network i mean WTF???!!

[Tish-the-Scorpion]

How could you not include G4? It used to have all kinds of decent Video Game related programming on the network. Now it's a carbon copy of Spike TV.man i'm still pissed over this..:mad:

[Alex]

man i'm still pissed over this..:mad:

G4 did get awful. I remeber always trying to catch Icons. Great show, full of nostalgia for me, interesting interviews with creators, then one day, i turned it on, and saw "Icon: Marc echo"
This was followed by a few episodes of the show that had very, very little (sometimes nothing) to do with videogames.

But the network always had problems. From Arena, which featured one big idiot who knew nothing about games, and then a cohost who was their to make fun of big idiot, too cheat...Cheat is a special case.
Here's a show, that always tried to have a good looking girl, give cheat codes to videogames, then at the end, give the website where you could look them up. Talk about a waste of 30 minutes.
The only show they really had, or have now, that is consistantly about games was X-Play.

[Chiasm]

Where I live Fox is and always has been a cable channel thus I'm including it here and calling it out as the one that most sold out. When it started it played shows that were edgy and too risque for network TV. Shows like Married With Children, In Living Color, The X-Files, etc. Nowadays its no different than the other big networks and its programming has become pretty bland and it pulls the plug on any show that doesn't instantly give huge numbers. I've no doubt that today's Fox would have likely never even given a show like The X-Files a chance.

[Deathstroke]

Examples:
The USA Network - Was initially a niche channel that had something for everyone:
*The Cartoon Express in the afternoons/early evenings for kids (coming home from school). There was also the "Calliope" anthology series for kids on Sunday mornings.
*Game shows (e.g. "Press Your Luck") in mid-afternoons.
*Made for TV movies for the Lifetime crowd.
*The old WWF/WWE (e.g. "Prime Time Wrestling", All-American Wrestling", "Tuesday Night Titans", etc.) and "Tuesday Night Fights" for the sports entertainment fan.
*Movies from every genre virtually every night.
*"Night Flight" and "Dance Party USA" for the music crowd.
*Bad B-movies on Friday nights (via "USA Up All-Night" and "Commander USA's Groovie Movies").

Now, USA is composed primarily of countless "Law & Order" and "Walker, Texas Ranger" reruns, the occassional "Monk", and all action/horror flicks.

They have more original series than the awful Monk, and The Dead Zone and The 4400 are the only reason I tune in to USA.

VH1 - Initially was an adult contemporary variation of MTV with entertaining music related shows like "Pop-Up Video", "Behind the Music", "Rock & Roll Jeopary!" and "The List" thrown in for good measure. Now, VH1 is pretty much a one-dimensional, pop culture, celebrity lifestyle/gossip channel. VH1 pretty much suffered the same fate as MTV, as it relies too heavily now on reality, soap opera-ish programming instead of flat out music oriented programming.

I have to agree here.

MTV2 (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/23HoursofNonMusicTelevision/) - Started off as an answer of sorts to viewers concerns that the regular MTV wasn't showing enough music videos. MTV2 was pretty much at first, what MTV was in its early years. Now, MTV2 is simply a dumping ground for whatever show(s) the regular MTV doesn't have room for on its current schedule.

The only reason to tune in was the revived Headbanger's Ball, but even that's atrocious.

ESPN2 - Started off as an edgy, hip, "Gen-X" flavored alternative to the regular ESPN. Now, ESPN2 is pretty much a dumping ground for whatever the regular ESPN doesn't have room for.

Not upset about the change, never watched ESPN2 as started. More room for basketball games is okay by me!

ESPN Classic - Started off as the Classic Sports Network (before ESPN took over). Its purpose was to show old television broadcasts of legendary games/moments in sports history. Now, it's run on the cheap, with little more than "not so classic" sports (i.e. not involving the NBA, NFL, NHL, NCAA, or MLB). There's way too much boxing and ESPN produced material (i.e. ESPN produced "classic" broadcasts) to justify the "Classic" label.

I have to agree.

FX - Started off as a niche channel (i.e. "something for everyone") that combined rebroadcasts of kitschy shows (e.g. the Adam West Batman series), live, interactive original programming (all from a New York City apartment). Now, FX is pretty much the HBO of basic cable (shows that are deemed "too edgy" for the Fox Broadcasting Company/Fox Network).

I like it better now.

The Disney Channel - Pretty much panders exclusively to pre-schoolers and tweens instead of all ages. Hence, virtually anything mildly nostalgic is no were to be found. Apparently, Disney figured that their live-action sitcoms (as well as stuff like "High School Musical") like "That's So Raven", "Lizzie Maguire", "Suite Life of Zack and Cody", "Hannah Montana", etc. were getting better ratings then anything of the classic/vintage Disney material.

I used to be able to catch classic movies (before they hit DVD) and some decent new ones but yeah the channel pretty much sucks now.

Black Entertainment Television - At first, featured numerous public affairs programming, reruns of old (sometimes short-lived) black-centric sitcoms, some sports (typically, historically black college football), and music that normally, MTV wasn't airing at the time. After Viacom takes over, they phase out the public affairs programming (and seemingly, a lot of original programming in general) and in comes crude stuff like "BET Late Night."

Fuse - At first, prided itself into being the "anti-MTV", in that it vowed that it would be about music and not reality-television. Now, Fuse is airing junk like "The Whitest Kids You Now" (I haven't seen it, but it appears like a "Kids in the Hall"/"The State" knock off), "Rad Girls" (the female verison of "Jackass"), movies like "Half Baked" and "Halloween 4", and the topper, "Pants Off Dance Off" (which is music centric, but utter sleeze and exploitation).

Don't watch either of these anyway.

[rednecko]

It's sad that the only way you get new music is through AMV's, bootlegs, or XM Satellite radio. I want my original MTV and VH1 back.

[DrewTheXenocide]

I miss FUSE....

That is all.

[Young Avenger]

Where I live Fox is and always has been a cable channel thus I'm including it here and calling it out as the one that most sold out. When it started it played shows that were edgy and too risque for network TV. Shows like Married With Children, In Living Color, The X-Files, etc. Nowadays its no different than the other big networks and its programming has become pretty bland and it pulls the plug on any show that doesn't instantly give huge numbers. I've no doubt that today's Fox would have likely never even given a show like The X-Files a chance.

Fox didn't sold out. They just moved all their edginess and risque stuff to FX.

[Pauly T]

Making a list of networks that have done this is like flipping around the dial:

FX
USA
BET
ESPN2
ESPN Classic
G4
MTV
MTV2
Vh1
CMT
TLC
Cartoon Network
Boomerang
TNN (The Nashville Network/The National Network/Spike TV)
TV Land
The Weather Channel
CNBC
AMC
Bravo

I'm sure I'm forgetting even more, but those are the ones that just spring to mind...

[Black Atom]

It seems like, in general, networks have much less variety than they used to and that's probably because there enough channels to devote a single network to one type of show. You can have just one Celeb Gossip Channel, one Old Cartoons Channel, one Old DISNEY Cartoons Channel, one World War II History Channel, one Vintage Sports Channel etc. etc.

[SnowTrooper]

I have to say Nickelodean. They used to have awesome shows like Rugrats, Hey Arnold, and Keenan & Kel. Now they have shows like Zoey 101 and Avatar, what happened Nick?

(Nick-at-Nite rocks though)

[Legato]

I have to say Nickelodean. They used to have awesome shows like Rugrats, Hey Arnold, and Keenan & Kel. Now they have shows like Zoey 101 and Avatar, what happened Nick?

(Nick-at-Nite rocks though)

Whoa hey dont put Avatar in the same league as the other current crappy shows that is associated with Nickelodeon. If anything that is the only decent show Nick has got so far.

But I agree that Nick has been dropping the ball when it comes to producing good shows.

[i_mmmchocolate]

I have to say Nickelodean. They used to have awesome shows like Rugrats, Hey Arnold, and Keenan & Kel. Now they have shows like Zoey 101 and Avatar, what happened Nick?
Don't forget Doug.

[Toonimator]

Avatar's one of the best, if not THE best, action-adventure-comedy cartoons out there right now. I'd take it over Rugrats any day... but, then, I like cartoons that look good and am pushing 30, two things that don't mesh with Rugrats very well. :)

Cartoon Network's showing more & more live-action films. Proof positive it's gone away from its origins.

Discovery Channel's another one that's strayed from the original path quite a bit. Too many 'shows' that don't offer much in the way of 'discovery'. It used to be a combination of PBS' Nova and Nature-type shows, with the occasional medical show thrown in. Now it's a bunch of series, too few of which seem to mesh with the original channel.

[Black Atom]

I have to say Nickelodean. They used to have awesome shows like Rugrats, Hey Arnold, and Keenan & Kel. Now they have shows like Zoey 101 and Avatar, what happened Nick?

(Nick-at-Nite rocks though)

Well, that's just a difference in preference. The programming seems by and large the same, with the exception of the kids gameshows.

[Jared]

Does VH-1 even have any music shows left besides top 20 countdown and the videos they air in the wee hours of the morning?

[Young Avenger]

I have to say Nickelodean. They used to have awesome shows like Rugrats, Hey Arnold, and Keenan & Kel. Now they have shows like Zoey 101 and Avatar, what happened Nick?

(Nick-at-Nite rocks though)

Whoa whoa whoa, don't put Avatar in the same league as crap like Zoey 101. Not only is Avatar the best American cartoon on tv, it's also the only show that makes the current Nick watchable.

[Legato]

Whoa whoa whoa, don't put Avatar in the same league as crap like Zoey 101. Not only is Avatar the best American cartoon on tv, it's also the only show that makes the current Nick watchable.


Bingo! Yet im sure that it wont surprise me that Nick will cancel the show in favor of the not so popular ones. Danny Phantom was one of the victims.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

TNN has really undergone a huge change from its core programming. While other networks may change shows and all. TNN actually changed its entire format and then name by 2001.

TNN was supposed to be the network the country music/redneck fan. Bull riding , monster truck fun , and the Grand Ole Opry and other music shows were featured. Then by 1999 with Viacom buying the channel , the guys in charge decided TNN needed to reach a broader base.

They cut the final ties with the music part of the programming and then added Extreme Championship Wrestling as an experimint to see if Pro Wrestling could work on the network. It did and soon they landed the WWE in a huge deal and started to add CSI and other shows.

By 2000 they even tried changing the name some by calling themselves The National Network (TNN) . It doesn't sound so good does it. So they by 2001 they became Spike TV . The network geared towards men.

Its really scary a network that used to be dedicated to Ralph Emery aired a show called Stripperllia. :p

[TMC1982]

Avatar's one of the best, if not THE best, action-adventure-comedy cartoons out there right now. I'd take it over Rugrats any day... but, then, I like cartoons that look good and am pushing 30, two things that don't mesh with Rugrats very well. :)

Cartoon Network's showing more & more live-action films. Proof positive it's gone away from its origins.

Discovery Channel's another one that's strayed from the original path quite a bit. Too many 'shows' that don't offer much in the way of 'discovery'. It used to be a combination of PBS' Nova and Nature-type shows, with the occasional medical show thrown in. Now it's a bunch of series, too few of which seem to mesh with the original channel.

I remember Cartoon Network showing the first live-action "Scooby Doo" movie. That sort of makes since considering it's source material is from an old Hanna-Barbara cartoon series. But then, they stretched things thin by airing "Cats & Dogs" and the 1989 "Batman" film.

[FanboyStranger]

Does VH-1 even have any music shows left besides top 20 countdown and the videos they air in the wee hours of the morning?

No, that's it. They don't even have shows about music anymore, like Behind the Music, although I suppose there is the rare Bands Reunited. At least VH1 Classic throws shows like Classic Albums, which are always interesting to me regardless of my interest in the band spotlighted.

In fact, I'd go so far as to say that only truly worthwhile show on any of the MTV family networks currently is Human Giant.

[Serik]

I have to say Nickelodean. They used to have awesome shows like Rugrats, Hey Arnold, and Keenan & Kel. Now they have shows like Zoey 101 and Avatar, what happened Nick?

Ya, poor kids growing up without Hey Dude, Legend of the Hidden Temple, Round House, All That, Wild&Crazy Kids, Salute Your Shorts, and Stick Stickley. Thinking of classic Nick programming always makes me nostalgic for the old days :)

I also agree with VH1. I totally forgot they used to air actual music documentaries and stuff. Now it's polluted with utter garbage.

I'd also like to add the Discovery Channel. I remember when it had more science-oriented programming. Discovery still has some great shows, don't get me wrong, but I'd rather have NOVA-type stuff instead of hours of "How It's Made." Oh well.

[FanboyStranger]

FX is a better network since it started to change its focus to original dramas. People can call it "The HBO of Basic Cable" all they want, but HBO doesn't have the trademark on edgy original dramas and for that matter, overall FX has the better stable of original shows right now, though HBO has the best single show in The Wire.


100% agreed. The Wire is the only HBO show I must watch on its first broadcast night anymore, although I do like Extras and Entourage. But you bet your ass I need to be home on Tuesday to watch The Shield and Rescue Me on Tuesdays, and ...Always Sunny... is funnier than all of HBO's comedies, to me at least.

I watched the latest episode of The Sopranos on demand the other night since everyone was raving about what a pivotal moment in the series it was, and when it was over, I realized that I just didn't care anymore. Compare that to last night when I was suffering from a major allergy attack, had taken medicine that always knocks me for a loop, but decided that I would rather be dead than miss The Shield and toughed it out.

Watching The Wire on BET is just hilarious, though, especially the infamous "five minutes of f^ck" investigation from Season One. I was almost crying.

[DDM]

Does VH-1 even have any music shows left besides top 20 countdown and the videos they air in the wee hours of the morning?

Is this a rhetorical question? VH-1 & MTV largely consists of reality television programming with award shows sprinkled around the year to provide the "music." MTV & VH-1 should have to logically replace the video awards because they really don't air any videos to set an impression on the audience with Reality Awards. :rolleyes:

To get any real videos, you have to watch MTV Classic which reruns videos from the 70's-90's.

[Kevin M.]

Ya, poor kids growing up without Hey Dude, Legend of the Hidden Temple, Round House, All That, Wild&Crazy Kids, Salute Your Shorts, and Stick Stickley. Thinking of classic Nick programming always makes me nostalgic for the old days

Oh man, those shows bring back some many memories. I remeber hurrying home, and parking my self infront ot the television from 3 to 5. That was some good T.V.

P.S. Don't forget "Are you afraid of The Dark"

[Super Macho Man]

TNN has really undergone a huge change from its core programming. While other networks may change shows and all. TNN actually changed its entire format and then name by 2001.
It was really funny during 2001-02 when they couldn't get the name changed so quickly, because of issues with Spike Lee. Then they didn't know where to go or what to do with their programming or their demographics.

Eh...I'll go with the Disney Channel. Case in point? Vault Disney.

Nick at Nite comes to mind, too. Yes, it's a network. They used to be about really old-school TV; the kinda stuff that if you asked the average adult about it, they'd give you that "Damn, that's older than me" look.

I never thought I'd see Fresh Prince of Bel-Air on Nick at Nite.

[DDM]

TNN has really undergone a huge change from its core programming. While other networks may change shows and all. TNN actually changed its entire format and then name by 2001.

TNN was supposed to be the network the country music/redneck fan. Bull riding , monster truck fun , and the Grand Ole Opry and other music shows were featured. Then by 1999 with Viacom buying the channel , the guys in charge decided TNN needed to reach a broader base.

They cut the final ties with the music part of the programming and then added Extreme Championship Wrestling as an experimint to see if Pro Wrestling could work on the network. It did and soon they landed the WWE in a huge deal and started to add CSI and other shows.

By 2000 they even tried changing the name some by calling themselves The National Network (TNN) . It doesn't sound so good does it. So they by 2001 they became Spike TV . The network geared towards men.

Its really scary a network that used to be dedicated to Ralph Emery aired a show called Stripperllia. :p

Viacom bought TNN. This should explain everything why it has changed into a homogenized Country VH-1 clone.

[DrDoomX]

Ya, poor kids growing up without Hey Dude, Legend of the Hidden Temple, Round House, All That, Wild&Crazy Kids, Salute Your Shorts, and Stick Stickley. Thinking of classic Nick programming always makes me nostalgic for the old days :)

I also agree with VH1. I totally forgot they used to air actual music documentaries and stuff. Now it's polluted with utter garbage.

I'd also like to add the Discovery Channel. I remember when it had more science-oriented programming. Discovery still has some great shows, don't get me wrong, but I'd rather have NOVA-type stuff instead of hours of "How It's Made." Oh well.


Actually alot of the classic Nick Toons and Nick Gameshows are still available to watch. Nick has two channels, Nicktoons, and Nick Games and Sports which air alot of these classic show...

Yes, I agree with the starter of this thread...and I think the Sci Fi channel has sold out big time. I remember the Sci Fi Channel being more then just poorly made movies about giant snakes or giant something...It was the only source on TV to find shows that explored the fantasy/Sci Fi Subculture...you had a show about comic books, Sci Fi Fantasy novel show(Which by the way had an interesting weekly editorial by none other then Harlan Ellison) a Show about Sci Fi and Fantasy films, a show that showed classic Sci Fantasy trailers, and even a shopping show...and much more. Oh and they showed great Anime Classics on Saturday Mornings, had the great Mystery Science Theatre 3000, showed great movies i.e Wrath of Khan, the Original Star Wars Trilogy, Indiana Jones. A show profiling great masters of the Fantasy and Sci Fi genres profiling Ray Bradbury, and James Cameron, among others....the Sci Fi channel was great in those days, now I donot watch it but an occasional episode of the great Battle Star Galatica....

And by the way, what the hell is ECW doing on the Sci Fi Channel? No offense to you wrestling fans, but wrestling on Sci Fi???

[Tish-the-Scorpion]

a show that showed classic Sci Fantasy trailers, yeah i loved that show!!!

[CDB]

I have to say Nickelodean. They used to have awesome shows like Rugrats, Hey Arnold, and Keenan & Kel. Now they have shows like Zoey 101 and Avatar, what happened Nick?

(Nick-at-Nite rocks though)

Whoa whoa whoa!!! Hold on there!! As folks have said Avatar is nowhere near the suck level of Zoey 101 and the rest of the live action crud.

Hell Avatar is the best thing Nick has "ever" done!! That's including ol' school classic Nick.

Since the Timmerverse DCAU shows & Samurai Jack are off the air, it's currently one of the most well done animated shows out there. Hell, it matches with those two.

Even with Avatar, Nick is still contiuning to shoot itself in the foot with cancelation and neglating of other good toons (i.e.: Jimmy Neutron, Danny Phantom, My Life as a Teenage Robot) in favor of kissing up to the teen bop pop crowds.

As far as The Disney Channel, Kim Possible is keeping that channel on life support in my book.

[Athena Bast]

TNN has really undergone a huge change from its core programming. While other networks may change shows and all. TNN actually changed its entire format and then name by 2001.

TNN was supposed to be the network the country music/redneck fan. Bull riding , monster truck fun , and the Grand Ole Opry and other music shows were featured. Then by 1999 with Viacom buying the channel , the guys in charge decided TNN needed to reach a broader base.

They cut the final ties with the music part of the programming and then added Extreme Championship Wrestling as an experimint to see if Pro Wrestling could work on the network. It did and soon they landed the WWE in a huge deal and started to add CSI and other shows.

By 2000 they even tried changing the name some by calling themselves The National Network (TNN) . It doesn't sound so good does it. So they by 2001 they became Spike TV . The network geared towards men.

Its really scary a network that used to be dedicated to Ralph Emery aired a show called Stripperllia. :p

Spike TV isn't half as "edgy" as it thinks it is. Hell, not even a quarter edgy. When they promote they're gonna run "Showgirls" and then photoshop bras and panties on the girls (poorly) after they take all their clothes off. You are not edgy. Hell, I give TBS an edge over them for running Sex and The City with the bleeps.