Will we see a reversal in the story?

[Kevinroc]

Throughout Civil War, most stories seemed to point to Captain America being in the right. Then at the end, a lot of people were upset when the message was that Cap was wrong and Iron Man was right.

What if we get that message in World War Hulk? What if, at the end of the day, we see that Hulk is in the right and that he holds the moral high ground over The Illuminati?

While many readers are siding with The Hulk, the majority of characters within the Marvel U. are siding against him. How would it look if the message was that Hulk really was a hero while Iron Man, Mr. Fantastic, Dr. Strange and Black Bolt were villains? What would you think of such an ending?

[Bryson the Red]

Unless it was really well written I would be... less than enthuiastic. I would probably not be suprised though. If you look at each of the Illuminati lately, they're all acting a little out of character, Black Bolt is losing it in Silent War. Tony is acting more and more questionably. Dr. Strange is running around with the New Avengers fighting ninjas (instead of meditating and stopping extra-planar threats). I'm sure if you look at all of them you can see it. Its either bull or they're getting setup for this.

[hyzmarca]

There wasn't a reversal in Civil War, its just that the bad guys won. That happens sometimes, though not often in comics.

[Servo]

Throughout Civil War, most stories seemed to point to Captain America being in the right. Then at the end, a lot of people were upset when the message was that Cap was wrong and Iron Man was right.

I thought Cap was in the right. He just realised that the fighting was making things worse and proving Stark's point. I still agree with what Cap wanted.

What if we get that message in World War Hulk? What if, at the end of the day, we see that Hulk is in the right and that he holds the moral high ground over The Illuminati?

I think that Hulk is right. Even if you believe that the shuttle explosion and resulting destruction of Sakaar wasn't the Illuminati's fault, they still betrayed him and blasted him into space.

While many readers are siding with The Hulk, the majority of characters within the Marvel U. are siding against him. How would it look if the message was that Hulk really was a hero while Iron Man, Mr. Fantastic, Dr. Strange and Black Bolt were villains? What would you think of such an ending?

I think it would be very brave of Marvel to do that, and it would be interesting to see where they went from there. Although I don't think villains is the right term. I think the power has definitely gone to Stark's head, and he's used his influence and standing with the other heroes to convince them to fall in with his line of thinking. T'Challa and Namor excepted. I'd say Stark probably does mean well, he's just a little over-zealous with his solutions. Maybe a beating from the Hulk is just the thing to snap him, and the others, out of it. ;)

[Captain Mobra]

Lol. "Bad guys"

[Pendaran]

While many readers are siding with The Hulk

Many readers in a forum named for the Hulk are. You might not want to make statements that seem like you're trying to generalize across the comic book reading audience based off of a subforum on an internet message board.

[Captain Mobra]

Many readers in a forum named for the Hulk are. You might not want to make statements that seem like you're trying to generalize across the comic book reading audience based off of a subforum on an internet message board.Good point.

Example: I don't side with the Hulk. I wish I had the issue of Illuminati where the actually voted because it had some great points about the Hulk in it. I believe someone said that Banner told people he would have killed himself long ago if he could have. Besides the terrible amount of damage and possible human death Hulk has or will cause, alot of it was for the Hulk's own good, I'm sure exilation into space has been better than the torture he's been through with re-Hulking and de-Hulking about a dozen times. Also, think about the thought process of where this is going. Hulk gets shot into space, finds new planet, becomes ruler and hero of planet, gets a wife and finds a place where he's loved, then when it gets messed with he goes and takes revenge on the guys that sent him there.

I don't know, it doesn't work for me.

I didn't side with Cap on the Civil War either, but that's a whole different discussion.

[Mike Smash!]

Many readers in a forum named for the Hulk are. You might not want to make statements that seem like you're trying to generalize across the comic book reading audience based off of a subforum on an internet message board.None of the regulars at my comic shop are rooting for Tony and Reed. Nor are any of my coworkers who read comics.

Aside from this board, I've never encountered a pro-Illuminati fan is on this board.

[Pendaran]

And Civil War was hated on by a large number of people on this board/CBR generally, yet its sales numbers routinely topped Marvel out, and their own commentary came off as often actively disdainful and uncaring of opinions like those as representing anything substantial.

None of the regulars at my comic shop are rooting for Tony and Reed. Nor are any of my coworkers who read comics.

Aside from this board, I've never encountered a pro-Illuminati fan is on this board.

And none of the people I hang out with that read comics are rooting for the Hulk. Does that change that there's no basis to say that such is good enough to start making general claims about the opinions of an entire audience based on personal anecdotes?

Aside from this board, I've never encountered a pro-Illuminati fan is on this board.

Do you seriously feel this board is really representative of the hundreds of thousands, if not more, of people who read comics?

Would you really feel that internet message boards, while certainly fun to post on, can really be said to be representative of the opinions of any large group, given the small number of active posters on any internet message board on any specific topic, compared to the sheer size of the large group they are from, such as the audience of any remotely popular medium of entertainment?

[Captain Mobra]

Let's just agree that there are Hulk supporters (or as I affectionately call them "Hulkies") and there are those who think that Hulk is being a bit unreasonable. (I call them Illumni, you know like Alumni, it's a play on words.)

[Pendaran]

Let's just agree that there are Hulk supporters (or as I affectionately call them "Hulkies") and there are those who think that Hulk is being a bit unreasonable. (I call them Illumni, you know like Alumni, it's a play on words.)

That is indeed certainly true. The problem only comes when starting to say that what amounts to anecdotal evidence and internet message boards can be said to be representative of some sweeping opinion, one way or another, especially when it's "well many people agree with the opinion I like". Okay.. how many are many?

I mean seriously, there are people who spend their whole lives trying to figure out how to analyze the opinions of large groups, and even they fess up that it's often imprecise, and ocassionally outright wrong, as far as what comes out.

[Servo]

And Civil War was hated on by a large number of people on this board/CBR generally, yet its sales numbers routinely topped Marvel out, and their own commentary came off as often actively disdainful and uncaring of opinions like those as representing anything substantial.



And none of the people I hang out with that read comics are rooting for the Hulk. Does that change that there's no basis to say that such is good enough to start making general claims about the opinions of an entire audience based on personal anecdotes?



Do you seriously feel this board is really representative of the hundreds of thousands, if not more, of people who read comics?

Would you really feel that internet message boards, while certainly fun to post on, can really be said to be representative of the opinions of any large group, given the small number of active posters on any internet message board on any specific topic, compared to the sheer size of the large group they are from, such as the audience of any remotely popular medium of entertainment?

What does it matter? He said "many readers". Not "all readers", not "the vast majority of readers". Many, as in "more than a few, but not all".

How about we discuss the topic at hand and use that to determine who's a "Hulkie" ( ;) ), and who isnt?

[Pendaran]

edit- eh, I'd stated what I wished on the matter.

[Kefky]

I'm sure there will be many people disappointed when the Hulk doesn't get a happy in the story, even though it's already becoming obvious that he won't. Just like there were many people disappointed when Cap didn't win CW, even though it was obvious since issue 2 that he was fighting a losing fight.

[hyzmarca]

There if a very fine line between hating something and loving to hate something. People who hate a book won't buy it. People who love to hate a book will buy it, read it several times, over-analyze every single word, and complain that the next issue isn't ready yet.

Many readers love to hate Civil War and its aftermath. Just because we're complaining about how it is going doesn't mean we won't continue reading, if for no other reason than to give us more stuff to complain about.

[Brad Barton]

I can't think of anyone I know who wants to see the Illuminati win, but that doesn't mean it won't happen...

One thing everyone has to realize...Stark and The Initiative will go on past September, which is when WWH ends. Now this doesn't necessarily mean Stark and Co. "win", but it does definitely mean they aren't obliterated, Killed, maimed or destroyed. At least, not ALL of them.

I think people have to get off the idea of Hulk having a completely dominating victory, and start thinking more about a moral victory.

Or how about if all his Warbound die? Down to the last one, Korg included? I guess that would make it a Pyrrhic Victory. Many, many possibilites....I guess thats what makes the story so interesting...

[Captain Mobra]

I can't think of anyone I know who wants to see the Illuminati win, but that doesn't mean it won't happen...


You know me. :p

[redhulk]

I'm a Hulkie,

And i would love the Aunties to win.

Why?

I would love them to win but at such high personal cost it would prove Hulk was right and in essence he wins overall as the world looks at them even more closely and his point is proved.


Xavier gives up his dream to take oer Hulks friends by force and make them do things they don't want with devastating results.

Blackbolt (well i think we all guess how this one will go)

Stark abuses the powers given to him in shield and puts youngsters to their deaths in all the thins he was trying to avoid.

Namor eats a tuna sandwhich by accident

Dr strange does a spell so devastaing and wide ranging that he turns to doing incredibly boring stunts like putting himself in a block of ice for 40 days or sitting above the thames in london getting eggs thrown at him.

[Kevinroc]

I can't think of anyone I know who wants to see the Illuminati win, but that doesn't mean it won't happen...

One thing everyone has to realize...Stark and The Initiative will go on past September, which is when WWH ends. Now this doesn't necessarily mean Stark and Co. "win", but it does definitely mean they aren't obliterated, Killed, maimed or destroyed. At least, not ALL of them.

I think people have to get off the idea of Hulk having a completely dominating victory, and start thinking more about a moral victory.


That's what I've thought for awhile now. Hulk will win a moral victory over The Illuminati. I'm just curious as to what the reaction would be from fandom if that actually happened.

[Magneto Rocks]

I'm still hoping the biggest "reversal" will be Thor returning to prove Tony right.

That said, as I've pointed out before, about 6/10- 7/10 of my LCS are anti-Hulk. The ones that are pro-Hulk are, like I say- you guessed it, the Incredible Hulk readers! And ya have to remember, for a very large group of casuals out there, it's going to be "Hmmm... all my favourite heroes are against Hulk, so he must be the bad guy." We know there's an insane Spider-Man fanbase out there obviously, and New Avengers is another best selling books. Methinks a LOT of those readers are going to see their favourite characters fighting Hulk, and automatically side against him.

I'd also say the Internet is more anti-reg than the vast majority of the comic reading audience for example. :)

[tjarvis]

That's what I've thought for awhile now. Hulk will win a moral victory over The Illuminati. I'm just curious as to what the reaction would be from fandom if that actually happened.

Considering all the advance solicits show Hulk actively invading Manhattan and taking it over as his home base, I just don't see how he can ever hope to hold the moral high ground.

Even if does do something like show mercy to the Illuminati, his actions are still declaring war on an entire country, illegally seizing land that is not his, and kicking millions of innocent people out of their homes on his say so.

There's just no moral high ground here for him.

[Kevinroc]

Considering all the advance solicits show Hulk actively invading Manhattan and taking it over as his home base, I just don't see how he can ever hope to hold the moral high ground.

Even if does do something like show mercy to the Illuminati, his actions are still declaring war on an entire country, illegally seizing land that is not his, and kicking millions of innocent people out of their homes on his say so.

There's just no moral high ground here for him.

Marvel claimed Tony Stark held the high ground against Captain America in Civil War, and he did things like create copies of his dead friends, build prisons in the negative zone, temporarily subvert judicial process, lie to other people, and a few other things...

So there's quite a lot of wiggle room for Hulk to claim the moral high ground here. :D

[Brad Barton]

Considering all the advance solicits show Hulk actively invading Manhattan and taking it over as his home base, I just don't see how he can ever hope to hold the moral high ground.

Even if does do something like show mercy to the Illuminati, his actions are still declaring war on an entire country, illegally seizing land that is not his, and kicking millions of innocent people out of their homes on his say so.

There's just no moral high ground here for him.

Good Point. But I seriously doubt Hulk cares how the "puny humans" think of him. I believe for him, and by association for us (as people reading a story from Hulks P.O.V.) It's about the Illuminati......and in that sense, he could still have a moral victory over them.

It would also be very heartbreaking to see Hulk win a "Pyrrhic" Victory, which basically means you won the war, but the personal cost was so high, it would have been better if you'd never fought it at all...

[Captain Mobra]

What was the Illuminatis whole point? That Hulk was dangerous to himself and others?

And what's this series called? World War Hulk? With Hulk clearly being the agrressor.

Sounds like there's no reversal in sight.

Considering all the advance solicits show Hulk actively invading Manhattan and taking it over as his home base, I just don't see how he can ever hope to hold the moral high ground.

Even if does do something like show mercy to the Illuminati, his actions are still declaring war on an entire country, illegally seizing land that is not his, and kicking millions of innocent people out of their homes on his say so.

There's just no moral high ground here for him.Quoted for truth

[Kevinroc]

What was the Illuminatis whole point? That Hulk was dangerous to himself and others?

And what's this series called? World War Hulk? With Hulk clearly being the agrressor.

Sounds like there's no reversal in sight.

Quoted for truth

Ask you a question.

Did you read Planet Hulk? At all? Or even the Prelude to Planet Hulk? To say Hulk is the aggressor in this after they lied to him, betrayed him and shot him into space is an interesting interpretation.

You can argue back and forth who shot first way back in the day. But if you just talk Planet Hulk... The Illuminati shot first by lying to Hulk, betraying his trust, using him to do their dirty work and then exiling him...

Namor told them that this was a terrible idea, that Hulk would return to kill them all and that he would be in the right to do so...

[Captain Mobra]

I'm saying that instead of returning and telling people that the Illuminati shot him into space he's launching a World War. Sending him away was a terrible idea, but so is what Hulk's doing right now. He's proving them right all the way.

[Mike Smash!]

I'm saying that instead of returning and telling people that the Illuminati shot him into space he's launching a World War. Sending him away was a terrible idea, but so is what Hulk's doing right now. He's proving them right all the way.I don't think that's true at all.

You've yet to see how this "war" begins and the Hulk is not the aggressor. He's a ruler of another planet responding to what he sees as an act of war. At the very least, an act of careless stupidity that led to countless deaths.

[tjarvis]

I don't think that's true at all.

You've yet to see how this "war" begins and the Hulk is not the aggressor. He's a ruler of another planet responding to what he sees as an act of war. At the very least, an act of careless stupidity that led to countless deaths.

Yeah, but leading a war against Manhattan which is inevitably going to lead to even more innocent death is equally wrong.

It's admittedly a bit cliche here, but two wrongs don't make a right. And Hulk isn't out for justice, he's out for vengeance. And how many innocent people are going to be hurt while he's looking for it?

[Kevinroc]

Yeah, but leading a war against Manhattan which is inevitably going to lead to even more innocent death is equally wrong.

It's admittedly a bit cliche here, but two wrongs don't make a right. And Hulk isn't out for justice, he's out for vengeance. And how many innocent people are going to be hurt while he's looking for it?

We've seen that Hulk has given the people of Earth a warning. He has told them who he is coming after and why...

If the average person doesn't get as far away as possible, then they are either crazy or stupid.

[Samuraixsithlord]

If the Hulk is just going after the Illumanati and the intiative cannon fodder then i'l have to side with him, but if he's like the Amazons in Amazons Attack with the killing of innocent civilians then i'll have to side with the "heroes"

[Captain Mobra]

We've seen that Hulk has given the people of Earth a warning. He has told them who he is coming after and why...

If the average person doesn't get as far away as possible, then they are either crazy or stupid.
What did he say exactly? I'm interested to see what he said if for nothing else than Cho's reaction.

[Mike Smash!]

Yeah, but leading a war against Manhattan which is inevitably going to lead to even more innocent death is equally wrong.Again, people are making assumptions about what the Hulk will do. I've seen no pages of him just smashing the city or attacking it.

I've heard that he's going to have it evacuated, which is something that the two warring factions in Civil War weren't nice enough to think of before duking it out in a populated area.

It's admittedly a bit cliche here, but two wrongs don't make a right. And Hulk isn't out for justice, he's out for vengeance. And how many innocent people are going to be hurt while he's looking for it?And he seeking it against a small number of people and it appears that he's evacuating the city to keep down civilian injuries or deaths.

I see alot of people simply assuming things the Hulk will do instead of reacting to things he's done.

[Mike Smash!]

What did he say exactly? I'm interested to see what he said if for nothing else than Cho's reaction.He says it in the next issue of THE INCREDIBLE HULK and we only see the first part of the broadcast.

But wait for it to happen before making assumptions.

[Kevinroc]

If the Hulk is just going after the Illumanati and the intiative cannon fodder then i'l have to side with him, but if he's like the Amazons in Amazons Attack with the killing of innocent civilians then i'll have to side with the "heroes"

What did he say exactly? I'm interested to see what he said if for nothing else than Cho's reaction.

Marvel has only released a preview showing Hulk's warning.

http://www.newsarama.com/marvelnew/Hulk/107/HULK107009-01.jpg

The reaction is unknown. But he outright says who he is going after and why. The fact that he's even giving a warning at all places him morally above the Amazons.

The reaction of any sane person after seeing that warning should be "I need to get as far away from those guys as humanly possible."

[Captain Mobra]

I don't think that's true at all.

You've yet to see how this "war" begins and the Hulk is not the aggressor. He's a ruler of another planet responding to what he sees as an act of war. At the very least, an act of careless stupidity that led to countless deaths.
No. I don't know how World War Hulk is going to progress, but if he's going to nuke Attilan just for Black Bolt being on the Illuminati it's one of two things.

Either A. He's doing it because he things the Illuminati blew up his ship and killed his family. I don't think there's proof of that is there? If there is I'll admit right now that whoever did that should get the living tar beat out of him.

Or B. He's doing it because the Illuminati sent him into space. Which is revenge and not an act of war.

That's all assuming that he is just going to rock Attilan, but everyone's guessed that at this point.

Either way. I'd wish he'd be more political about it. I'd love for him to just work out a way for it to be shown that they did this and put them on trial or something during a political cou. Then there would be the look of public thinking "Hey didn't you guys shoot him into space because he was a savage monster that couldn't keep control of himself."

I wonder what Bruce Banner things about all this.

[Bryson the Red]

We've seen that Hulk has given the people of Earth a warning. He has told them who he is coming after and why...

If the average person doesn't get as far away as possible, then they are either crazy or stupid.

This seems a bit silly. Everyone is expected to evacuate? I'm not saying it isn't smart, but these are the people of the MU. They have seen a lot messed up stuff happen, they're not going to run for the hills just cause of that. If the Hulk was ONLY after the Illuminati he would not need to warn everyone. If nothing else he would just call them out for a fight. Do you think if he said "Dr. Strange, come out and get your butt kicked or I'm coming after you and people might get hurt." that Doc wouldn't show? He's out for War. This doesn't mean that he's gonna smash John Q Public for no reason, but I don't think he cares too much to avoid him either.

This is a act of war and vengeance, no one should convince themselves this is justice. I'm not saying I totally disagree with him coming back to kick butt, but don't fool yourselves. I will be pleased to see him take care not to hurt anyone innocent, but do we really think thats going to happen? Doesn't seem too angry to me.

[Brad Barton]

Wow, this thread is starting to turn into a "World War Hulk: Whose side are YOU on?" kind of thing...

[Captain Mobra]

http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?t=169940

[Kevinroc]

This seems a bit silly. Everyone is expected to evacuate? I'm not saying it isn't smart, but these are the people of the MU. They have seen a lot messed up stuff happen, they're not going to run for the hills just cause of that. If the Hulk was ONLY after the Illuminati he would not need to warn everyone. If nothing else he would just call them out for a fight. Do you think if he said "Dr. Strange, come out and get your butt kicked or I'm coming after you and people might get hurt." that Doc wouldn't show? He's out for War. This doesn't mean that he's gonna smash John Q Public for no reason, but I don't think he cares too much to avoid him either.

This is a act of war and vengeance, no one should convince themselves this is justice. I'm not saying I totally disagree with him coming back to kick butt, but don't fool yourselves. I will be pleased to see him take care not to hurt anyone innocent, but do we really think thats going to happen? Doesn't seem too angry to me.

He's given warning. If, by this point in history of Marvel Earth, the average citizen stands their ground when they hear The Hulk is going to rampage near them, then they are asking for trouble.

It sounds like you're just ready to condemn him for whatever he does after everything that's happened to him.

[Captain Mobra]

He's given warning. If, by this point in history of Marvel Earth, the average citizen stands their ground when they hear The Hulk is going to rampage near them, then they are asking for trouble.

It sounds like you're just ready to condemn him for whatever he does after everything that's happened to him.

Lol. That's what I've been saying. Hulk rampaging is a bad idea for his cause. Well, that's if he even cares about any sort of moral security concerning the Earth public is concerned.

[Kevinroc]

Lol. That's what I've been saying. Hulk rampaging is a bad idea for his cause. Well, that's if he even cares about any sort of moral security concerning the Earth public is concerned.

He gave a warning. Which is more than the heroes gave when they had their big battle at the end of Civil War #7. ;)

[Captain Mobra]

And at the end a bunch of citizens tackled Captain America. So. . .he might loose some supporters.

[Bryson the Red]

He's given warning. If, by this point in history of Marvel Earth, the average citizen stands their ground when they hear The Hulk is going to rampage near them, then they are asking for trouble.

It sounds like you're just ready to condemn him for whatever he does after everything that's happened to him.

If the citizens of US Marvel cities left everytime something went down were would be missing all of out major cities. They have to stand their ground too. That being said it would be dumb to stick around.

I'm not condemning him yet, I'm going to see what he does, however, being in a rage and starting an event called a "world war" does not imply beating up 5 guys. It indicates there is gonna be SOME collateral damage.

[redhulk]

Ok without getting into polyticks and stuff....

Try to remember Hulk is a soveriegn ruler of a planet

The aunties were working under sanction of shield (eg US defence)

Hulk so far wants them held accountable and as a nation that has had a major disaster caused by said aunties it seems fair.


wibbly screen......little scenerio


North Korea test a rocket to transport their own satellites to space its a PEACEFUL rocket...
The rocket goes haywire and destroys half of the USA

Do you think the US would be ..

1. um its ok lads, don't worry just sort it out by yourself,

or

2 would they PERHAPS ask for the people to be held accountable to US laws?

And if N korea said US could go jump in a lake do you just about imagine the US may just may use force?

I think they would tell the people who they think are responsbile and give a set time and demands that they be handed over for the millions killed in the US and assure them justice (US style) will be held so no reason to worry.

Hulk is doing that, Hulk is now a leader of a planet, if he wanted revenge he would have gone back when the surfer asked him if he wanted to as he could take him. He didn't

Before the blast he was in the process of acting as a just king and rebuilding the planet he is not seeking personal revenge for his wife...granted but also an account for HIS planet (as it was HIS and they were his subjects)

It was already shown Hulk could forgive those that killed and destroyed as he asked for a truce with warring factions...

So Hulk is as justified as any nation that has had any kind of conflict or war over the last 5000 years or so.

which is funnily enough, quite a few nations.



Hulk is doing with the US and the initive are doing in the comics and as as every superpower does if they DO NOT GET THEIR way.

Hulk will use force if he has to. And like the US or initiative would say casualities are regrettable. The initivave is fighting in Iraq and i am sure there will be refretable casualties to the people there.

Hulk is giving ample warning....it is for the US authorities to ensure the evacuation takes place even if people do not want to go as this is a war with set rules (paradoxically) and not hulk commiting terrorism

[jackolover]

Considering all the advance solicits show Hulk actively invading Manhattan and taking it over as his home base, I just don't see how he can ever hope to hold the moral high ground.

Even if does do something like show mercy to the Illuminati, his actions are still declaring war on an entire country, illegally seizing land that is not his, and kicking millions of innocent people out of their homes on his say so.

There's just no moral high ground here for him.

Remind you of something pre-colonial? I think it would be interesting to judge the moral high ground of the colonials versus the Indians.

[jackolover]

I don't think that's true at all.

You've yet to see how this "war" begins and the Hulk is not the aggressor. He's a ruler of another planet responding to what he sees as an act of war. At the very least, an act of careless stupidity that led to countless deaths.

I'd never heard that take on the reasons for the war. If this is an interplanetary dispute, shouldn't there be emissaries presented to the opposing factions? Then some response to the grievance?

And using the North Korean analogy, lets say the USA don't give up the Illuminati? Maybe it is up to the 5 to sort out their individual gripes with the Hulk.

But this WWH reminds me of Independance Day, the movie. A big force arrives in the skies over Manhatten.... Maybe I'm jumping the gun a bit, but that Stone Ship arriving, looks very imposing, and Hulk transmitting a message that reaches every live person, is some Technology. I think there will be a little fear produced in the world, just by a smart Hulk in charge of that kind of Tech.

[Captain Mobra]

Well. If I were handling this Hulk would meet with the president to try to agree to terms with the trial of Reed, Tony, and Strange. I don't know where Xavier is, or if he's even going to go after him. And obviously court marshalling Black Bolt.

But World War Hulk makes me thing it's just going to be "Hulk SMASH!"

[Mike Smash!]

And obviously court marshalling Black Bolt.Court martialing Blackbolt? From what organization? Why?

I think Hulk would rather just kick the crap out of him, not have him kicked out of the Inhumans.

[redhulk]

I'd never heard that take on the reasons for the war. If this is an interplanetary dispute, shouldn't there be emissaries presented to the opposing factions? Then some response to the grievance?


Oooh i was just using an analogy here to give reasons that it is not just the Hulk but what Hulk now represents. If we get back to comic land the illumanti go over to the skrull world and destroy (preemptively) thousands of skrulls and their warships...sure they said they were going to invade but up to then they hadn't. Why not look for diplomatic sources? In most if not ALL of the stories on a cosmic scale they really look for diplomatic solutions and seem to go to the alien planet and kick ass. All of the illumanaties decisions were based on their unilateral actions without going through proper channels.
At least Hulk IS...also he is NOT decalring war on Earth (as i see it so far, maybe im wrong) he is wantign those 5 and they happen to be in the US if they were living in Alaska i am sure he would go there too.

But i don't want to go too far with the political analogy not as i don't think it will hold i think it does, just..well its dull as dishwater and Hulk smashing stuff is cool as hell.



And using the North Korean analogy, lets say the USA don't give up the Illuminati? Maybe it is up to the 5 to sort out their individual gripes with the Hulk.

Yup i totally agree unfortunately Ironman is head of the defence of the united states of america which controls most of the superhuman population, its a bit like the north korean leader demanding the head of dick cheney and bush saying...off you two go and get into a cage and sort it out...its your mess....bye.

Blackbolt is a leader of a whole race, Namor as well, each one is potentially a huge force the problem is all these people are weapons of mass destruction in their own right. Strange alone could destroy a planet, same goes for Blackbolt, Namor could destroy millions (aided of course) Ironman with his inititive and shield contacts is effectively the Military force of the earth, Xavier well the onslaught sage showed a little of his potential, and hulk with just his hands could also probably destroy the earth.

As far as i know


(checks wikipedia)

Yup, dick cheney can only shoot people in the face as his major super power.



But this WWH reminds me of Independance Day, the movie. A big force arrives in the skies over Manhatten.... Maybe I'm jumping the gun a bit, but that Stone Ship arriving, looks very imposing, and Hulk transmitting a message that reaches every live person, is some Technology. I think there will be a little fear produced in the world, just by a smart Hulk in charge of that kind of Tech.

Well when america bombarded iraq with little pieces of paper and hijacked their airwaves telling people what they would do and when they would begin their assualt you could say that was iinstilling fear as well...but again its getting all politcal so i will stick out of it now and go back to irreverent chat...

*i have no idea what irreverent means


:evilsmile

[ivesaidway2much]

I really hope there isn't a reversal in WWH. While I may have hated the execution of Civil War for a variety of reasons, one of the few good things to come out of that story is that it opened up avenues for new and different kinds of stories to be told. Instead of some contrived misunderstanding or the dreaded let's band together to fight the real bad guy behind this problem, two groups of heroes fought against each other and one side won. It wasn't groundbreaking, but that result was far from common.

And that's what I want from WWH. Instead of reading for the 101st time that things would have turned out so much better if people had just left the Hulk, or some trite After School Special type of advice like "don't judge a book by it's cover", I want to see something new or at least semi-original. Hulk winning the moral high ground because the "heroes" saw the monster on the outside instead of the person on the inside has a been there, done that kind of feel. I just want something different.

[Captain Mobra]

Court martialing Blackbolt? From what organization? Why?

I think Hulk would rather just kick the crap out of him, not have him kicked out of the Inhumans.
So. He'd rather resort to violence than an actual poltical punishment. That's what I was talking about the whole way through. He's still acting like a savage. If he tryed to produce some sort of trial against the Illuminati instead of the projected "kicking the crap out of them" then he'd seem much more like a king of a planet and not a savag.

[Kevinroc]

So. He'd rather resort to violence than an actual poltical punishment. That's what I was talking about the whole way through. He's still acting like a savage. If he tryed to produce some sort of trial against the Illuminati instead of the projected "kicking the crap out of them" then he'd seem much more like a king of a planet and not a savag.

Resorting to violence is the standard in super hero comics.

I'll be damned if the first response from the Hulk isn't punching someone in the face really hard for playing judge and jury with his life.

SHIELD shoots first when talking to Captain America, and these people are supposed to be the law. So you could imagine what the reaction would be if Hulk just showed up and wanted to have a peaceful discussion...

Exactly, it wouldn't work and Hulk knows it.

[Black Atom]

Reversal? No.

Deus ex machina resolution from left-field? Probable.

[tjarvis]

Remind you of something pre-colonial? I think it would be interesting to judge the moral high ground of the colonials versus the Indians.

Oh, Native Americans completely held the moral high ground when it came to that. Manifest Destiny was a crock.

On the other hand, a certain amount of self-interest also comes into play, and you have the right to be a little selfish. The average New Yorker isn't going to be sympathetic to the Hulk, they're going to be rightly pissed at being told to leave their homes.

And don't tell me that Hulk giving a warning makes it ok. If a terrorist gives an advance warning that they're blowing up a building, and then blows it up later, we don't just sit back and say "well he did tell us, so I guess it's ok."

The Hulk is declaring war, and my empathy lies with the citizens of the MU who are going to be hurt because of the Hulk's temper tantrum.

[jackolover]

Oh, Native Americans completely held the moral high ground when it came to that. Manifest Destiny was a crock.

On the other hand, a certain amount of self-interest also comes into play, and you have the right to be a little selfish. The average New Yorker isn't going to be sympathetic to the Hulk, they're going to be rightly pissed at being told to leave their homes.

And don't tell me that Hulk giving a warning makes it ok. If a terrorist gives an advance warning that they're blowing up a building, and then blows it up later, we don't just sit back and say "well he did tell us, so I guess it's ok."

The Hulk is declaring war, and my empathy lies with the citizens of the MU who are going to be hurt because of the Hulk's temper tantrum.

I agree. The Hulk is conducting an invasion as far as I am concerned, coming here with superior force, and apparently, requiring Manhattan be evacuated. So what I am saying is, the New Yorkers have the moral high ground in this conflict, because the NY's are the people occupying the island of Manhattan.

And, because the NY's are the social group that some of the Illuminati come from, (except Namor and Black Bolt, Namor being exempt, although I wonder how Hulk found that out), they are being lumbered with the Hulks first contact. It reminds me of Captain James Cook setting foot on the coast of Queensland, and the flurry of activity that produced in the Aborigines.

Of cause, we don't know if the Hulk does have a temper tantrum, so it's too early to say. There may be negotiations, setup with Tony and Reed, and all Hulk is doing is, intimidating them both. But I can't see where Hulk will go with this tactic, considering he already motivated himself in the Prologue issue to conduct some action against the Illuminati. In any case, he is overriding the rule of law in the city by bullying the people.

[Captain Mobra]

I agree. The Hulk is conducting an invasion as far as I am concerned, coming here with superior force, and apparently, requiring Manhattan be evacuated. So what I am saying is, the New Yorkers have the moral high ground in this conflict, because the NY's are the people occupying the island of Manhattan.

And, because the NY's are the social group that some of the Illuminati come from, (except Namor and Black Bolt, Namor being exempt, although I wonder how Hulk found that out), they are being lumbered with the Hulks first contact. It reminds me of Captain James Cook setting foot on the coast of Queensland, and the flurry of activity that produced in the Aborigines.

Of cause, we don't know if the Hulk does have a temper tantrum, so it's too early to say. There may be negotiations, setup with Tony and Reed, and all Hulk is doing is, intimidating them both. But I can't see where Hulk will go with this tactic, considering he already motivated himself in the Prologue issue to conduct some action against the Illuminati. In any case, he is overriding the rule of law in the city by bullying the people.
Yeah. I wonder where Hulk got alot of information, but I haven't read much of the Hulk until recently.

Again, I agree, this is World War Hulk. Unless the name is a swerve, as well as alot of the solicitations, Hulk's smashing.