Brubaker's Daredevil

[stealthwise]

Got the first two tpbs in the mail today, and read through them tonight.

Wow.

Seriously, I haven't been this impressed by the man in anything else he's written. I liked his Books of Doom and Captain America, loved his Catwoman and Criminal issues, but this... to me, this is the definitive Daredevil.

Yes, it relies a bit too much on the past of the character, but Ed really gets the core of how and why Murdock works, and, without major spoilers, he tears the character apart in order to build him back up. Excellent, excellent stuff, can't recommend it enough.

[TCJohnson]

Well, Bendis did leave Daredevil in jail so Brubaker had to deal with this before he could move forward.

But this is the first time I have ever subbed to a Daredevil comic.

[yo go re]

even better than Bendis' version?

[Darediva]

even better than Bendis' version?

Yes. I never thought I'd say that, either, but it's true. I'm extremely pleased with how Brubaker is writing DD, and happy, happy, happy with the title right now.

[TCJohnson]

Not that Darediva is a hard core Daredevil fan or anything crazy like that.

http://www.woodsidecountrystore.com/images/Img36.gif

I really think Brubaker is the best marvel-exclusive writer there is right now...and really can only think of a couple of other writers who are more on their game than he is.

[The Beast Of Yucca Flats]

It's exceptional. From what I saw on his Batman, Catwoman, Gotham Central, Sleeper, and up to his Daredevil now, Brubaker can craft mysteries & thrillers-- usually with superb endings, no less-- like virtually no one else in comics. Meltzer? Pfft.

[stealthwise]

It's exceptional. From what I saw on his Batman, Catwoman, Gotham Central, Sleeper, and up to his Daredevil now, Brubaker can craft mysteries & thrillers-- usually with superb endings, no less-- like virtually no one else in comics. Meltzer? Pfft.

Damn straight.

It was pretty obvious which parts of Gotham Central were his and which parts were Rucka's, because... well, Rucka's not that good (although I do like Queen and Country).

And Catwoman... I just reread the first two trades, then cursed the stars that I don't have the rest of his work (up until Gulacay took over, then the art makes it nigh-unreadable).

I also just finished Sleeper and it did not disappoint. At all.

Makes me wonder why X-Men: Deadly Genesis stunk so much. Probably because it's another ridiculous retcon that "changes everything you thought you knew," although that's exactly what Bru did with his Capt. America run and the Winter Soldier, but for some reason, I could barely get through the X-Men stuff.

[Night Swordsman]

I also did not like Deadly Genesis,and only half interested in The Rise And Fall of the Shi'ar Empire storyline(but i am liking where it is heading...). All the x-books feel disfocused and interchangable. X-Factor (and Astonishing,which is close to ending) are the only books that i look FORWARD to reading.

And what i loved most about Daredevil is the seemless handing off of the book from Bendis to Brubaker(who are friends,and wanted to do the Daredevil/Batman crossover that was killed by DC's Management). It felt the same,yet we kept the quality of the book.

Daredevil has been a exceptional book since its relaunch,and only continues to get better.

[Jack Zodiac]

Yes, it relies a bit too much on the past of the character, but Ed really gets the core of how and why Murdock works, and, without major spoilers, he tears the character apart in order to build him back up. Excellent, excellent stuff, can't recommend it enough.

Fuck that, you don't even need that much in-depth history on the character to understand it. Sure, I'm willing to bet I enjoyed it a whole lot more than someone who never read the definitive Miller run on Daredevil, but everything you'd need to know is laid out for you (though it felt more like it relied on people knowing a lot about the supporting characters of the past, like Mrs. Fisk, towards the end). Either way, though, Brubaker's Daredevil is the single greatest arc in the book's history because...

Well, Bendis did leave Daredevil in jail so Brubaker had to deal with this before he could move forward.

...that's the perfect place to pick up a story dealing with all of the incredible work Frank did with the title so many years ago. I don't know if Bendis timed his shitty run on the book for Brubaker or if Ed just lucked out and wound up with all of the right characters in the right place at the right time, but Matt winding up in jail with Fisk, Frank, and Bullseye is the most incredible place to springboard into a continuation (nay, an evolution!) of his classic run.

I think I can say, honestly, that I've never been as excited by a Marvel comic arc as I was by "The Devil in Cell Block D." I don't think anythink that company produces will ever hit that height of quality again for a while.

Not only that, but this motherfucker made me want to read Uncanny X-Men again after years and years and years of it being completely unreadable. I don't know if it's because he grew up a nerd or if he just naturally knows how to make a book grow, but everything this guy touches turns to fuckin' gold.

[Kevinroc]

Brubaker's Daredevil run has been amazing. I really enjoyed the Bendis run and I'm impressed that Brubaker has managed to keep Daredevil a must read title.

While I do think his X-Men run is the weakest of his current assignments, I do think it is certainly readable. But Bru's best stuff relies on a more down to earth tone. Space opera isn't where his strength lies.

I'm enjoying the current "To The Devil, His Due" arc. I'm looking forward to where Bru takes this story.

(And Iron Fist is awesome stuff.)

[yo go re]

I'm one of those people who has never read Frank Miller's Daredevil. Sure, I've read parts of it, but not the whole thing. And yet I loved the hell out of what I've read post-relaunch. Didn't find it hard to follow at all. That's why I was surprised that folks are calling Bru's best - I recently switched to the trades, so I'm behind, now.

I don't know if Bendis timed his shitty run on the book for Brubaker
Bendis had a shitty run?

[Alan Lynch]

I didn't buy any of Brubaker's issues until after Civil War for some reason. And what got me onboard was curiosity to see how he wrapped up what Bendis started. Holy shit do I regret leaving it so long; it's an incredible book. He's managed to find a perfect middle ground between Bendis' reality based noir and outright superheroing, and it's so lovely and brilliant that I can't get over it.

[NickThompson]

even better than Bendis' version?
Brubaker's first arc is the best arc from the pair, Bendis' is the better overall. But we're comparing a complete run with the early seeds, of course :)


They complement each other well, making me a happy DD fan. Since I got into comics I've read aevery Daredevil ongoing and mini, and not had any bad :D

[Corrina]

I haven't read Bendis' Daredevil or Frank Miller's.

Loved, loved "The Devil in Cell Block C." What a freakin' great story. It even made me interested in the Punisher and I hate the Punisher.

But then, I fell in love with Brubaker's work back when he was the 'lesser' of the two writers on "Batman," with the other being Greg Rucka. And, yeah, you can tell which parts of Gotham Central had Brubaker's touch. There's a humanity to his characters, even the worst of them, whereas Rucka's characters came off to me as more...distant.

Brubaker's Captain America is just as good. As for him rewriting history there, he might have, but he also kept the absolute core of Steve Rogers' personality. (And I stayed away from Civil War, so it didn't wreck this run for me.)

[Spectreguy]

Brubakers the only reason Marvel gets any money at all from me. ;)
Spectreguy

[Jack Zodiac]

Bendis had a shitty run?

Oh God, yeah, especially towards the end. It started out strong, but after the third year of running with the "Is Matt Murdock Daredevil?" storyline, it was becoming a joke- and the final arc was a major disappointment to me, because after Bendis had started this huge, life-changing storyline for the title character, he drops the book before resolving anything. Luckily someone as talented as Brubaker was there to pick up the pieces, salvage the crapfest that was the previous arc, and run with a story that is one of the best stories Marvel's done in years.

[Night Swordsman]

Oh God, yeah, especially towards the end. It started out strong, but after the third year of running with the "Is Matt Murdock Daredevil?" storyline, it was becoming a joke- and the final arc was a major disappointment to me, because after Bendis had started this huge, life-changing storyline for the title character, he drops the book before resolving anything. Luckily someone as talented as Brubaker was there to pick up the pieces, salvage the crapfest that was the previous arc, and run with a story that is one of the best stories Marvel's done in years.

That is a fair opinion. Here is another. It was a GOOD run,solid art and story,and was liked by alot of people. Enough that i do believe it was nominated for some major comic awards that year.

The Bendis run on Daredevil was a delight,and i am NOT a big Daredevil fan. I definitely recommend it.

[yo go re]

yeah, that'd be the category I'm in, as well. And yes, he worked out the ending with Brubaker in advance - if someone else was taking over, it probably would have ended differently...

[Jack Zodiac]

I think that was my biggest complain with his run (aside from his mind-numbing dialogue). He lost sense of direction towards the end. I'm glad he and Brubaker worked it out together, but it was still Ed who wrote the great wrap-up to almost all of Bendis' loose ends.

Like Mia. She was a worthless, uninteresting throwaway character when Bendis introduced her, he did little to make her character a real part of Daredevil's life, but in just one issue, Ed was able to make me like her almost as much as Karen Page.

[yo go re]

never been a Karen Page man, myself. Keeping her around was like... I don't know, people who think Buffy should only ever be with Angel, to trot out a cross-cultural reference. Or the drive to keep putting GA and Black Canary back together. Any once-paired characters that subsequent creators just refuse to let go their separate ways.

You just have to admit that Frank Miller tore the character up, and let her just evaporate from Matt's life. At some point, even that deliriously guilt-ridden Catholic boy with severe mommy issues (er, Daredevil, not Frank Miller) just needs to stop being irrationally forgiving. So thanks to Kevin Smith for moving that along.

And Mia's introduction was really good, I thought - her recounting of the way they met and how she went to find him? Nice stuff, that. Unfortunately, she then spent about 80 issues being nothing more than an off-hand reference, once DD did the one-year jump...

[Alan Lynch]

I always liked Mia, and loved Bendis' run. But it's typical of a lot of his stuff where he starts strong, gets on a really great roll then ends with a bit of a letdown. If at all.

[stealthwise]

never been a Karen Page man, myself. Keeping her around was like... I don't know, people who think Buffy should only ever be with Angel, to trot out a cross-cultural reference. Or the drive to keep putting GA and Black Canary back together. Any once-paired characters that subsequent creators just refuse to let go their separate ways.

You just have to admit that Frank Miller tore the character up, and let her just evaporate from Matt's life. At some point, even that deliriously guilt-ridden Catholic boy with severe mommy issues (er, Daredevil, not Frank Miller) just needs to stop being irrationally forgiving. So thanks to Kevin Smith for moving that along.

And Mia's introduction was really good, I thought - her recounting of the way they met and how she went to find him? Nice stuff, that. Unfortunately, she then spent about 80 issues being nothing more than an off-hand reference, once DD did the one-year jump...


Good points about Karen Page, she's basically DD's Gwen Stacy, only became so before she died (and after Miller made her into a "fallen woman"), so it's nice to see Marvel moving forward on that note.

As for the one-year jump, what one-year jump?

[NickThompson]

Good points about Karen Page, she's basically DD's Gwen Stacy, only became so before she died (and after Miller made her into a "fallen woman"), so it's nice to see Marvel moving forward on that note.

As for the one-year jump, what one-year jump?
50 and 56 were a year apart.

[Drink]

I started getting into Marvel these last few weeks. As a trial thing, I picked up the two issues of the current Daredevil run. I absolutely loved it, and picked up the first trade and all the issues inbetween that and the current arc (Couldn't find the second trade). The art, being a bit of a Gotham Central fan, is really great, and I like how they focuss just as much, maybe more, on Matt Murdoc as opposed to DD.

Actually, I could say that this run has really got me into the character. I'm picking up a number of things of him, starting with the Frank Miller (Pre-insanity) stories, then I'm going for the huge Bendis/Maleev run.

Oh, and Brubaker's Criminal is really good too.

[Alan Lynch]

You'll love Bendis' run if you like seeing focus on Matt Murdock. He might be in the book more than DD himself.

[StoneGold]

You'll love Bendis' run if you like seeing focus on Matt Murdock. He might be in the book more than DD himself.

I see you don't buy into the theory that Matt Murdock actually is DareDevil. Good, he won't have to sue you.

[Corrina]

While I am all for a good character story, I have to say Bendis' Daredevil did very little for me.

Art of DD up on rooftop, sad but intense.
Supporting characters all go through various hoops to help.
Nothing works. They are frustrated.
Art of DD up on rooftop, sad but intense.

I have no idea if every issue was like that but after two issues, I wasn't willing to invest more to find out. Character driven is nice but I wanted the plot to move a little faster. Or at least some evidence of plot movement.

[Night Swordsman]

While I am all for a good character story, I have to say Bendis' Daredevil did very little for me.

Art of DD up on rooftop, sad but intense.
Supporting characters all go through various hoops to help.
Nothing works. They are frustrated.
Art of DD up on rooftop, sad but intense.

I have no idea if every issue was like that but after two issues, I wasn't willing to invest more to find out. Character driven is nice but I wanted the plot to move a little faster. Or at least some evidence of plot movement.

Seriously Corrina,it wasn't like that at all,but i respect your view on it. I AGREE that the run reads better in a trade rather than as a monthly COMIC(i refuse to use pamphlets...grrr). It is worth checking out,but only if you want to. Daredevil is NOT my favorite character,and as stated by several people,he seems to be at extremes: He is either awesome when done right,and sucks when done wrong. No middle ground.

[Jack Zodiac]

Bendis was on the book for a while, and it's true that the majority of this run was ridden with angst, with lots of Daredevil sitting on rooftops looking sad and intense. For the most part, though, Bendis did some really good things to make Matt's world interesting, he just couldn't pull it together over however many years he was on the book, and towards the end, I felt like was getting recycled stories out of him. Started out strong, but I think he could've delivered more over such a long period of time. Hell, Ed's only had the book about, what, a year? And he's already delivered way more than Bendis.

[Night Swordsman]

Bendis was on the book for a while, and it's true that the majority of this run was ridden with angst, with lots of Daredevil sitting on rooftops looking sad and intense. For the most part, though, Bendis did some really good things to make Matt's world interesting, he just couldn't pull it together over however many years he was on the book, and towards the end, I felt like was getting recycled stories out of him. Started out strong, but I think he could've delivered more over such a long period of time. Hell, Ed's only had the book about, what, a year? And he's already delivered way more than Bendis.

That is a fair opinion,and well said. I agree with alot of it too.

And Ed's a extraordinary writer,and writing a character totally to his style. I just regret we will probably never see the Batman/Daredevil project he and Bendis had planned.

[yo go re]

becaue DC are babies...

[stealthwise]

becaue DC are babies...

Or because that kind of project doesn't really suit them at the moment.

It'd be cool to see, but the way that each company is working to screw the other over (see the signings of certain exclusives), it's unlikely to occur, and it's not all on DC's side either.

[Alan Lynch]

I see you don't buy into the theory that Matt Murdock actually is DareDevil. Good, he won't have to sue you.
He proved it in court and everything!
becaue DC are babies...
I can see where they're coming from in fairness. Joe Q can rub people the wrong way, and if DC don't have to deal with him then why should they?

[NickThompson]

Or because that kind of project doesn't really suit them at the moment.

It'd be cool to see, but the way that each company is working to screw the other over (see the signings of certain exclusives), it's unlikely to occur, and it's not all on DC's side either.
IIRC they said they wont do it until Quesada is gone.



EDIT - http://www.newsarama.com/WW_Chicago_04/DD_Batman.htm

[yo go re]

Joe Q can rub people the wrong way, and if DC don't have to deal with him then why should they?

Because, as a business, it should be about the product, not about whether or not you like talking to the guy on the other end of the phone?

[stealthwise]

IIRC they said they wont do it until Quesada is gone.



EDIT - http://www.newsarama.com/WW_Chicago_04/DD_Batman.htm

If you believe what Bendis says, and he's probably not quoting Levitz directly, as I'm sure there's more to it than that.

[Night Swordsman]

If you believe what Bendis says, and he's probably not quoting Levitz directly, as I'm sure there's more to it than that.

Actually Stealth,that was just ONE of several articles about the subject. Bendis and Bru wanted to do it. Joe Q. OK'd it,thinking it was a great idea,DC editorial loved it,but DC's upper management DID NOT want to do it,stating that as long as certain people are at Marvel,DC will not work with them again(the JLA/Avengers project was done despite this thinking...,but it should also be pointed out that Marvel and DC do these things in TURNS. The JLA/Avengers was different,as Marvel put out two issues,DC put out two issues,and DC published the Absolute edition. Usually Marvel and DC either do two (Batman/Spider-man then Spider-man/Batman for a example) or switch back(Such as the original Superman/Spider-man then Spider-Man/Superman then Hulk/Batman then X-men/Teen Titans).

The fact is this,everyone was on board for this crossover,but DC's upper management would NOT do the book unless Joe Q. resigned. Shortly afterwards Brubaker LEFT DC and went to Marvel. While i can understand DC's dislike of Joe Q.(and Joe has been very honest in the fact he prefers a hostile environment over the kind gentle days of the Marvel vs DC/Alagram/All Axcess era,prefering friendly competition to make each company step up its game,Joe ALSO stated that the story comes first,and knew that a Batman/Daredevil book done by Bru and Bendis would be a GREAT story,and ok'd it as something the fans wanted to have) why could they NOT of done what they did with the JLA/Avengers project,put aside the hostility they had to Joe(and lets face it...DC was NOT mad at Marvel..they were mad at JOE)and give the fans what they wanted?

All you will have to do is dig around Newsarama's and CBR's archieve about the subject. I also know several long heated threads resulted(usually ending in a Marvel suck,DC sucks childish rants).

I do believe the rivalry between Joe Q. and DC upper management(notice i am NOT singling out Dan D,as there are reports he WANTED to do the Bat/DD project) has been a bad thing for comics. It is unlikely that we will see another Marvel/DC project in the future,or even this generation(i predict a decade at the earliest...) and that is a shame,as DC and Marvel are gearing up for a Long Cold War against each other,both sides in fault,and the real victims are the fans.

[NickThompson]

If you believe what Bendis says, and he's probably not quoting Levitz directly, as I'm sure there's more to it than that.
Keep in mind that the panel where this was brought up featured an appearence by Bob Wayne :)


EDIT - Here we go:

http://www.comicbookresources.com/news/newsitem.cgi?id=4075

-snip-

Bendis continued, "So this year, me and Ed Brubaker started talking about it. Batman versus Bullseye. Elektra versus Catwoman. Yeah, a lot of cool shit. Everyone was excited, a lot of people said they'd do it for free -- let's just get this shit done, let's get it green-lit. But (DC President, Publisher) Paul Levitz said no."

Bendis was apparently about to appeal to fans to plead with DC Comics to get the project approved. But then, like Batman crashing through a skylight, an unexpected visitor burst into the room.

"That's not entirely true!" Wayne called from the doorway.

Bendis asked for the visitor to identify himself, and once Wayne did, he was invited to join Bendis at the front of the room.

"May I continue?" Bendis asked.

"Yes. As long as you understand the premise that I think you're incorrect."

Bendis went on to say that he did call Levitz personally, and that Levitz cited Quesada personally as the reason the DD/Batman book could not go on.

"And that's not a good reason," Bendis said. "That's a personal reason. We could do this book without those two ever even speaking to each other."

Wayne then effectively supported what Bendis said.

"The impression I have is that we expressed an interest in it, and that Brian would be involved... and we'll do it, as soon as Joe is not at Marvel anymore," said Wayne.

The crowd, quick to react, was assured by Bendis that this was not a publicity stunt or a staged event. There was not actually a Batman/DD book in the can and they were just trying to drum up excitement. In fact, according to the two, this was the first time they had ever spoken.

Why does DC management have a problem with Quesada? The only snippet Wayne would offer was to hint about the way Quesada was conducting business, and then he specifically mentioned a story in the New York Observer in which Quesada was quoted.

"We're down to one person we want to see gone from Marvel, there used to be two," said Wayne. "If you could speed up getting (Quesada) out the door..."

-snip-

More in the link.

[Metronome35]

Well, Bendis did leave Daredevil in jail so Brubaker had to deal with this before he could move forward.

But this is the first time I have ever subbed to a Daredevil comic.
Murdock going to jail was actually something they both agreed to. In the last issue before Brubaker took over, Bendis said something along the lines of how he thought the only way his arc could really end would be for Matt to go to jail, but he thought that'd be an awkward place for the next writer to start. When he spoke to Brubaker he was actually enthusiastic about the idea, so things went ahead smoothly.

Personally, I've found Brubaker's run pretty boring so far.

[Night Swordsman]

Keep in mind that the panel where this was brought up featured an appearence by Bob Wayne :)


EDIT - Here we go:

http://www.comicbookresources.com/news/newsitem.cgi?id=4075



More in the link.

This was the story i was trying to think of,but pieces of it were blurry.

No matter how much a jerk Joe Q is,i am pretty sure he has never used emmotional blackmail of the fans to get rid of a competitor.
Between this and the never ending Crisis storyline(continuing this year in Countdown),my DC days are slowly slipping away from me.

And as long as great works like Brubakers DD are still being made,i won't mind it either.

[yo go re]

Well, Quesada did try to use emotional blackmail - difference was that he wasn't trying to get rid of a competitor, he was trying to get one back in the game. Remember when he called out Todd McFarlane in public and tried to get Toddy to do a benefit book? Emotional blackmail, sure, but for the good of the industry...

[Night Swordsman]

Well, Quesada did try to use emotional blackmail - difference was that he wasn't trying to get rid of a competitor, he was trying to get one back in the game. Remember when he called out Todd McFarlane in public and tried to get Toddy to do a benefit book? Emotional blackmail, sure, but for the good of the industry...

Um...Depends on how you view McFarlane. Bringing him "back" into the industry might not be a good thing,considering alot of ill will he has generated to several good creators over the years,not to mention owing money to several of his own artists and writers then declaring bankruptcy on them.

The thing is,people love McFarlane on Spidey,and Joe was trying to let Todd know that people would love to see a Spawn/Spider-man team-up. Todd,for whatever his reasons,chose not to do it(but was willing to do Batman/Spawn with McFarlane involved,back when Frank and Todd were friends...).

Still,i will begrudgingly give you the point on this,but lets say some of people prefer Todd to stay where he is and count his baseballs.

[Erik Burnham]

Good points about Karen Page, she's basically DD's Gwen Stacy, only became so before she died (and after Miller made her into a "fallen woman")

Miller... fallen woman... do those words even belong in the same sentence?

(;

[Erik Burnham]

Seriously Corrina,it wasn't like that at all,but i respect your view on it. I AGREE that the run reads better in a trade rather than as a monthly COMIC(i refuse to use pamphlets...grrr).

It shouldn't have to be an either/or... the stories should, by nature of being serialized, be able to be read singly as well. Not four months of setup you can read at a stop light, twenty pages of action, and twenty pages of wrapup...

Y'know, in all honesty, I look forward to a day when books can be serialized (say online, or in anthologies) at five pages a week. Five pages a week, and after six months you can get the hardcopy trade.

That 'digital paper' needs to hurry up and mature! (;

-E

[yo go re]

Still,i will begrudgingly give you the point on this,but lets say some of people prefer Todd to stay where he is and count his baseballs.
Well, yeah, no doubt - but in his challenge, Joe was just acting as the voice of the fans: "Stop playing with your balls, and draw something again. Step away from the stupid businessman stuff for a while, and have some fun for a change." I think it was at the time the whole Miracleman thing (http://www.oafe.net/articulation/0307.php) was just kicking up, and I'd bet that at least part of Joe's thinking was "if we can get the guy away from the conference table and back to the drawing table, maybe he'll lighten the hell up and stop being such a prick about this."

Todd's response, as best as I can recall, was something along the lines of "If I return to drawing, it'll be when I want to, not because somebody dared me." Because he doesn't have the good sense to recognize when somebody is giving him an opening...

[Night Swordsman]

Well, yeah, no doubt - but in his challenge, Joe was just acting as the voice of the fans: "Stop playing with your balls, and draw something again. Step away from the stupid businessman stuff for a while, and have some fun for a change." I think it was at the time the whole Miracleman thing (http://www.oafe.net/articulation/0307.php) was just kicking up, and I'd bet that at least part of Joe's thinking was "if we can get the guy away from the conference table and back to the drawing table, maybe he'll lighten the hell up and stop being such a prick about this."

Todd's response, as best as I can recall, was something along the lines of "If I return to drawing, it'll be when I want to, not because somebody dared me." Because he doesn't have the good sense to recognize when somebody is giving him an opening...


I remember that response as well.
I hate to bash ANY comic creator on here,but Toddler is my one exception.
I have NO desire to purchase or support him as long as his creative staff is still owed money and as long as Miricleman is still a issue. And i turned down some really nice toys due to this. Sigh.