What would you love to see in Gail's Wonder Woman run?

[Cayman]

Gail's Wonder Woman run grows ever more near. What are some things you'd love to see happen during her run?

Here's some of mine.

Ferdinand! The breakout character of Rucka's run, and I miss him.

The Fury (Helena Kosmatos) appearing. I was really drawn to the character and I'd love to see more of her. I couldn't make it through the awful Priest Legends Of The DC Universe where some despot tried to get Diana to sleep with him in exchange for peace, but I did like what I saw of Fury.

Spy Smasher. Easily one of the best new characters of the past year, Katarina might reasonably cross paths with "Agent Diana Prince" and the Department of Metahuman Affairs.

Skataris. I enjoyed Wonder Woman's visit to that particular lost civilization during the run of Phil Jimenez. I love seeing Wonder Woman battle giant monsters.

A battle between Wonder Woman and Knockout. Have they tussled before? I think that would be a fun fight.

Black Alice utilizing Circe's powers.

Maybe a rematch with the Gail-created Queen Of Fables.

[Matt Doc Martin]

Hot lesbian action.

But that is my answer to everything.

Seriously, though....I will be a new Wonder Woman reader, so I want to see a warrior Princess kicking much ass.

And fighting Black Adam.

[Cayman]

Much as I hate the new character, I wouldn't mind seeing Diana meet the current Aquaman.

[d newton]

A battle between Wonder Woman and Knockout. Have they tussled before? I think that would be a fun fight.
Don't forget Scandal! :D

Hot lesbian action.
Ewwww. :o

[The Beast Of Yucca Flats]

Julia & Vanessa, Leslie, and Ferdinand.

[hellokittykat]

I'd like to see the E2 Lyta Trevor Fury but I'm too nostalgic.

[KevinTBrown]

I just want to see a book coming out on time...........

[JeffreyWKramer]

I'd like to see Diana go back to using long-absent exclamations such as "Suffering Sappho!" or "Great Lesbos!." Just because.

[Adrian Tullberg]

As opposed to the current direction this title is taking it's main character; a Wonder Woman who does not have half her brain removed.

Seriously, her not knowing about turnstiles, fuel pumps and other matters would have worked early in Perez's run, but not today. They may have thought it was cute, but the reality is that it's bloody annoying.

[heystacy]

Lotsa action, and some new villains.

[Alan Lynch]

I just hope I understand it. My knowledge of Wonder Woman is limited exclusively to Justice League Unlimited.

[Typo Lad]

Reality

What reality? Tis a comic.

Treat each creator's run as a seperate continuity unto itself. You'll be happier that way.

That said, I find that one of Gail's strongest points is her creating engaging foes for her protagonists. I'd like to see a revitalization of Wonder Woman's enemies.

I would also like to not see sudden appearances by the Secret Six, Black Alice, or the Birds of Prey. I don't believe they'd fit well.

[Night Swordsman]

I would like to see more of Diana and LESS of Wonder Woman. New villans,a CAST of new supporting characters and maybe even a pet. But i am weird...:)

[Hybrid2]

I would like to see more of Diana and LESS of Wonder Woman. New villans,a CAST of new supporting characters and maybe even a pet. But i am weird...:)

How about Superman ask her to take care of Krypto,for a few days?

[Night Swordsman]

How about Superman ask her to take care of Krypto,for a few days?

SEE? THAT would be awesome! Imagine Krypto not being in "awe" like every other male character in DC of Wonder Woman,and instead being a DOG! Showing Diana trying to RELATE to Krpyto and hiliarity ensuing for a issue would be FUN.

I just feel that if i am going to read this book(which is going to feel like a chore till Gail wins me over,which shouldn't be long),that i would like to see LESS 'super-heroics' and more PERSONALITY.

[diana_fan]

Some of what I want to see, I won't see. That is, the dropping forever, and pretending that it never happened in the first place, of the ludicrous "Diana Prince" False Identity.

Other than that, there are a number of things I would like to see:

- Artemis playing a role. She's a great character who definitely needs some exposure. She is a good counter to Diana.

- The rest of the Amazons and Themyscira playing a role. Diana is more than Wonder Woman -- she's part of a larger milieu. Her mother and her sisters should be very important to her.

- NO CIRCE! God almighty, am I sick of this woman. :mad:

- Some recognition that Diana is more than a super-heroine who beats on stuff. Whether or not her original Mission came to an end, she still has a purpose beyond punching and kicking things into oblivion.

- Philosphy and ideas should play a prominent role in any Wonder Woman book.

And, most importantly ...

- DONNA and CASSIE! It is an absolute CRIME that Diana just blew off Cassie after IC. Cassie had just lost her first love, and Diana doesn't even bother to tell her where she was! :mad: WHAT. THE. HELL?!

Donna and Cassie should both play a role in Diana's book. Diana loves them both, and they are each super-heroines in their own right. Diana's relationship with each should be relevant and occasionally prominent.

[Cayman]

...and maybe even a pet.

Ferdinand?

[Sarah Beach]

Me, I want to write Donna, so I'm only so-so on whether she shows up in WW. ;)

But yeah... very, very tired of Circe.

[Flamebird]

Well, since I have ridiculously high standards; What would I like to see?


UMMM, how about


WONDER WOMAN!!!

Lots and Lots of her. :D

[Corrina]

Good stories?

[Flamebird]

Good stories?

Hell, I'd be happy with mediocre stories at this point.

As long as they made ANY kind of sense.

Though put me down in the NO Circe for a while column.

[Cayman]

I like Circe. I have no interest in seeing Dr. Psycho anytime soon though.

[diana_fan]

I like Circe. I have no interest in seeing Dr. Psycho anytime soon though.

I like Circe too. But I'm sick to death of seeing her. She needs like a two-year lay-off. Then, when she comes back, it can be something momentus, and not just "Oh, god, Circe AGAIN?!"

I forgot to add that I would also like to see Diana playing some role in cosmic stories. I had a dream once where Diana and Hal were on Oa, after WW basically twisted his arm, because she had some sort of important point to make to the Guardians. And the whole thing was this massive debate between Wonder Woman and the Guardians. I think it had something to do with Darkseid, or possibly the Cyborg Superman (or both).

Well, give me a break, it was a dream. But at least in the dream, it was tres cool! :)

[Sarah Beach]

I like Circe too. But I'm sick to death of seeing her. She needs like a two-year lay-off. Then, when she comes back, it can be something momentus, and not just "Oh, god, Circe AGAIN?!"

I forgot to add that I would also like to see Diana playing some role in cosmic stories. I had a dream once where Diana and Hal were on Oa, after WW basically twisted his arm, because she had some sort of important point to make to the Guardians. And the whole thing was this massive debate between Wonder Woman and the Guardians. I think it had something to do with Darkseid, or possibly the Cyborg Superman (or both).

Well, give me a break, it was a dream. But at least in the dream, it was tres cool! :)

Actually, that does sound like a cool story. Hmm. Maybe you should feed it to Gail and beg for co-writer credit of the arc. ;)

[Night Swordsman]

Ferdinand?

Sorry...but that idea is pure bull. :)

[diana_fan]

Actually, that does sound like a cool story. Hmm. Maybe you should feed it to Gail and beg for co-writer credit of the arc. ;)

Thank you, Sarah! :)

Nah, I'm sure Gail's got it covered. Heh. I doubt she needs help from me. :)

Anyway, I would like to see her dealing with Cosmic stuff some more. Mystery in Space was so great, that I hope they keep doing things with those characters, and of course 52 got Adam Strange back into gear. And Green Lantern and Green Lantern Corps both are kickin'.

Plus, I'm a sucker for Hal/Diana interaction. ;)

Oh! And even though it is largely the domain of those who wear the 'S', it would be interesting to see a WW arc set in the 31st Century, with the LoSH. That could lead to all sorts of hijinx!

[Cayman]

Has Diana ever fought Blackfire? Or that really nasty lady from Thanagar who was in Diggle's Adam Strange? I can't remember if she survived that mini or not.

[Magneto_X]

I just want to see a book coming out on time...........

As long as she has an artist who can make deadlines WW will never be late while Gail's writing it. From her end, anyway.

She's always managed to keep books released on time, even when she has ungodly amounts of assignments to keep track of.

edit: I want Artemis back as a supporting cast member.

[Cayman]

Where is the Pegasus Diana got after killing Medousa? Did she leave with the Gods and Amazons? Everybody wants pegasus.

[diana_fan]

Has Diana ever fought Blackfire? Or that really nasty lady from Thanagar who was in Diggle's Adam Strange? I can't remember if she survived that mini or not.

I don't remember any conflict with Blackfire, but it would prove fascinating, that's for sure. :)

I never read the Adam Strange mini, so can't help you there. Though I hear it's great, and after 52 I'm going to look for it now.

[Cayman]

I don't remember any conflict with Blackfire, but it would prove fascinating, that's for sure. :)

I never read the Adam Strange mini, so can't help you there. Though I hear it's great, and after 52 I'm going to look for it now.

It was pretty cool, although it basically ends with "...to be continued in Rann/Thanagar War #1"

[diana_fan]

It was pretty cool, although it basically ends with "...to be continued in Rann/Thanagar War #1"

Ah. Sort of like Ion and Countdown. Well, that doesn't bother me, since I read Rann/Thanagar War and enjoyed it (even though I had no cue who anyone was at the time :) )

[Night Swordsman]

What about exotic wildlife? Every issue of Wonder Woman can focus on a little known critter from somewhere in the world! Like Diana's Fun Facts page!

Heck! We can even get Arthur over from his book and explain piranahas to the kids!! :D :rolleyes:

[Evan Waters]

I think Wonder Woman needs to be written like this (http://www.webcomicsnation.com/justinpie/wonderella/series.php).

[d newton]

That is, the dropping forever, and pretending that it never happened in the first place, of the ludicrous "Diana Prince" False Identity.
You want this dropped because...? :confused:

[Typo Lad]

I just find it funny that it's considered "false", when it's part of the original concept.

[Ultraboytx]

I'd just like to see Diana leave America once in a while. She's supposed to be an 'ambassador' to the 'world of man.' The amazons aren't so backwards as to think the USA is the only place with men, are they?

[Eliseu Gouveia]

A kickass baddie.
No, really.
It´s just sad seing Jobberseid neutered and realisng there´s nobody to take his place in the DCU.

Gail, I want a mean, sharp as nails, superpowerful, machiavellian, dangerous adversary for Diana.
Something/one so dark and cool and dangerous that every DCU cape would collectively curl into a fetal position if they ever met him.

Notice how I typed "adversary" instad of "evemy". :cool:

[diana_fan]

You want this dropped because...? :confused:

I just find it funny that it's considered "false", when it's part of the original concept.

I've gone on at length concerning this.

But in short, I believe it undermines the character. It is a False Identity because it is completely fabricated. There is no part of the "Diana Prince" persona that is real, except for the name "Diana". While Clark Kent was actually adopted by the Kents, raised in Smallville, lived his life as Clark Kent, "Diana Prince" never existed until Batman created her.

While Bruce Wayne was a child of Thomas and Martha Wayne, saw them die, went around the world, etc., "Diana Prince" never existed until Batman created her.

So, that's why it is a False Identity as opposed to a Secret Identity. This Diana is the Diana that first debuted in 1987, when Perez rebooted the character. It doesn't matter what happened in the Golden Age, since it is a different character altogether.

Furthermore, it completely undermines who Diana is. It goes against everything she believes in. Honesty is part of what makes Diana who she is. She is dedicated to the Truth, and sees it as a virtue, not an inconveinence.

Finally, the idea that Diana, of all people, would work for the US Government is ... I don't think I have a word for what it is. I really don't. It goes against EVERYTHING Diana stands for and believes in. It is a completely wrong.

And there's really no point to bring up the ludicrousness of a 6' tall woman, who possesses LITERALLY the Beauty of Aphrodite and is physically perfect being able to put on glasses and street clothes and be unrecognized, even though EVERYONE in the world knows who Wonder Woman is.

[Typo Lad]

I disagree with everything except her being a US goverment agent. That, to me, is just plain odd.

[Adrian Tullberg]

A kickass baddie.
No, really.
It´s just sad seing Jobberseid neutered and realisng there´s nobody to take his place in the DCU.

Gail, I want a mean, sharp as nails, superpowerful, machiavellian, dangerous adversary for Diana.
Something/one so dark and cool and dangerous that every DCU cape would collectively curl into a fetal position if they ever met him.

Notice how I typed "adversary" instad of "evemy". :cool:

How about this?

Mercy, Luthor's henchwoman, is free and clear after her boss went on the run - in fact, there is no evidence to prove she was nothing more than his bodyguard.

A conglomerate of ... special interests have noted her resume, and contracted her to perform certain tasks.

Basically, her job is to inflame things around the globe. Peace is bad for business. Peace denies (or severely limits) those special interests the ability to sell their products.

She travels around the globe, negotiating here, a bribe there ... sometimes more direct methods are necessary.

It's only business ... and business is good ...

[diana_fan]

How about this?

Mercy, Luthor's henchwoman, is free and clear after her boss went on the run - in fact, there is no evidence to prove she was nothing more than his bodyguard.

A conglomerate of ... special interests have noted her resume, and contracted her to perform certain tasks.

Basically, her job is to inflame things around the globe. Peace is bad for business. Peace denies (or severely limits) those special interests the ability to sell their products.

She travels around the globe, negotiating here, a bribe there ... sometimes more direct methods are necessary.

It's only business ... and business is good ...

That is a great idea. Just perfect.

[d newton]

But in short, I believe it undermines the character. It is a False Identity because it is completely fabricated. There is no part of the "Diana Prince" persona that is real, except for the name "Diana".
She needs the secret identity so that she can find out what humans do every day.

[The Beast Of Yucca Flats]

How about this?

Mercy, Luthor's henchwoman, is free and clear after her boss went on the run - in fact, there is no evidence to prove she was nothing more than his bodyguard.

A conglomerate of ... special interests have noted her resume, and contracted her to perform certain tasks.

Basically, her job is to inflame things around the globe. Peace is bad for business. Peace denies (or severely limits) those special interests the ability to sell their products.

She travels around the globe, negotiating here, a bribe there ... sometimes more direct methods are necessary.

It's only business ... and business is good ...

Definitely not a bad idea. Mercy could use an interesting story in the comics.

[Eliseu Gouveia]

How about this?

Mercy, Luthor's henchwoman, is free and clear after her boss went on the run - in fact, there is no evidence to prove she was nothing more than his bodyguard.

A conglomerate of ... special interests have noted her resume, and contracted her to perform certain tasks.

Basically, her job is to inflame things around the globe. Peace is bad for business. Peace denies (or severely limits) those special interests the ability to sell their products.

She travels around the globe, negotiating here, a bribe there ... sometimes more direct methods are necessary.

It's only business ... and business is good ...


I like the idea but maybe with another chracter.

I think Diana should have Diana villains, not borrowed villains form other books.

[Dedagda]

I would like to see more of Diana and LESS of Wonder Woman. New villans,a CAST of new supporting characters and maybe even a pet. But i am weird...:)

We're stuck with some standards about Wonder Woman. The real action occurs in the supporting cast. Build a big a strong cast and you can inject storylines that Wonder Woman herself as property could never go through.

[Night Swordsman]

We're stuck with some standards about Wonder Woman. The real action occurs in the supporting cast. Build a big a strong cast and you can inject storylines that Wonder Woman herself as property could never go through.

Exactly! Heck,give Diana some friends. Heck,even a Significant other(and GO with all the embarrassing awkward stages of getting to know each other and make mistakes and DEAL with them as adults without GOING WITH THE CLICHES "but your wonder-woman and i'm put off by you" nonsense) would be nice. Do NOT give us the easy molds to be filled,give us strong characters,flaws and all,because Diana has very few flaws of her own.
Even without the SO,i think the highlight of George's run was the supporting cast. Give us that back again. I even LIKE the idea of a secret identity.

(waits for the inevitable now...)

[stealthwise]

I'd like to see Diana Prince learn how to pump gas. :D

[Night Swordsman]

I'd like to see Diana Prince learn how to pump gas. :D

<APPLAUDS> :) You made me laugh so hard i coughed.

[stealthwise]

<APPLAUDS> :) You made me laugh so hard i coughed.

Dammit. Gilbert Gottfried promised me that when I bought jokes from him, they'd be powerful enough to KILL A MAN.

[Night Swordsman]

Dammit. Gilbert Gottfried promised me that when I bought jokes from him, they'd be powerful enough to KILL A MAN.

If it helps...i was petting my youngest kitten at the time,and she sheds like NO ONE's business. The amount of fur i had all over me,then you making me laugh,i would not be surprised i got a hairball i will need to hack up latter. :rolleyes:

[Matt Doc Martin]

I would like to see special guest star Matt Doc Martin.


What?

[Cayman]

I would like to see special guest star Matt Doc Martin.


What?

I understand Amazons Attack is looking for extras to play decapitated corpses. The pays not great and you have to spend hours in make-up, but the catering is fantastic.

[Matt Doc Martin]

I understand Amazons Attack is looking for extras to play decapitated corpses. The pays not great and you have to spend hours in make-up, but the catering is fantastic.

Sign me up! I'll be the guy in the Patriots jersey!

[JKCarrier]

I'd like to see WW acting a little more like William Moulton Marston's creation, and a little less like the Punisher. But I ain't holding my breath.

[Damo]

She needs the secret identity so that she can find out what humans do every day.

Humans fly around in jetpacks, wear white catsuits, and work for cyborg spies every day? O_o

I've been doing something SERIOUSLY wrong with my life.

If you're going to force a false identity on her, and say it's justified because she has to find out what "normal people" do, then it should damn well be a "normal" job. "Normal" people do NOT get told "Circe's kidnapped Donna Troy! Find Wonder Woman with your spy partner, the world's greatest master of disguises!"

If "Diana Prince" has to stay, I'd like to see her trying out a series of jobs. If she's going to "learn" about "normal" people then she needs to see a wide variety of lives. Fine, one day be a government agent. Then work in a women's shelter. Then build homes for the homeless. Then work retail. Then a garbage(wo)man. Then be a temp secretary or something. Teach Spanish, or a class in Greek mythology. Make a real effort to see as many different "normal" lives as possible. "Superspy" should have been at the BOTTOM of that list, right above "normal human that puts on a Bat suit and fights crime".

[Sabrinaset]

OMG!!! Wonder Woman is gonna be written by a woman, and one of the BEST women writers out there! I mean, wow ... This almost makes up for the many months I was off-line! I mean, reading the BIG NEWS ... that DEVIN GRAYSON is gunna be writing Wonder Woman ...!

Bree, you dork. Gail is writing it.

GAIL...?

Oh. Never mind then.

[pom_girl93]

mine is The breakout character of Rucka's run do others thank the same or just me

[pom_girl93]

i would like to see Ferdinand! The breakout character of Rucka's run and i am shur that people would want to see the same thang

[Eliseu Gouveia]

Humans fly around in jetpacks, wear white catsuits, and work for cyborg spies every day? O_o

I've been doing something SERIOUSLY wrong with my life.

If you're going to force a false identity on her, and say it's justified because she has to find out what "normal people" do, then it should damn well be a "normal" job. "Normal" people do NOT get told "Circe's kidnapped Donna Troy! Find Wonder Woman with your spy partner, the world's greatest master of disguises!"

If "Diana Prince" has to stay, I'd like to see her trying out a series of jobs. If she's going to "learn" about "normal" people then she needs to see a wide variety of lives. Fine, one day be a government agent. Then work in a women's shelter. Then build homes for the homeless. Then work retail. Then a garbage(wo)man. Then be a temp secretary or something. Teach Spanish, or a class in Greek mythology. Make a real effort to see as many different "normal" lives as possible. "Superspy" should have been at the BOTTOM of that list, right above "normal human that puts on a Bat suit and fights crime".


Yeah, if she has to "relate" to normal humans, then get her back on that macjob serving cheeseburgers and fries..

[Damo]

Yeah, if she has to "relate" to normal humans, then get her back on that macjob serving cheeseburgers and fries..

Well... maybe not for the long run, but maybe an issue or two. Nothing permanent, the fans would go nuts. That's why I said a series of jobs. Some as unglamorous as possible, some pretty okay (being a substitute teacher or something). But I can't for the life of me see how it's humanly possible to say she's learning how to relate to normal humans in a line of work that provides jetpacks and holographic masks. That's industrial grade aged to perfection pure concentrated horse manure, and anyone that says otherwise really should have decency to turn red as a beet with shame.

[Adrian Tullberg]

I like the idea but maybe with another chracter.

I think Diana should have Diana villains, not borrowed villains form other books.


Oh right ... just to make you happy ...

Danielle Von Gunther was a German Aristocrat sans trust fund. She enrolled in the military, displaying extraordinary aptitude, and garnered considerable acclaim as the military liason attached to GSG 9.

Her sudden resignation was dogged by rumours that she'd been seliing weaponry on the black market. Due to her contacts from her family and the one's she made as an officer, she gained a number of lucrative consultancy jobs for various military hardware corporations.

In between contracts, Von Gunther was made an offer by a group of industrialists. Her practical aptitude plus her influence in certain circles made her the perfect candidate for a certain role.

They needed someone to fan the flames of conflict in certain places around the globe. It had to be one person; organisations tended to leak. One person who could negotiate with a third-world despot, make light-hearted banter at diplomatic soires, and send a .50 calibre bullet between someone's eyes a mile away. Because for the right people, war was good for one thing - money.

The job was intriguing, and the pay was generous. Von Gunther accepted.

Danielle has been doing this for a while now, and is very good at what she does.

Diana of Themyscira has been noticed by her for a while now.

She knows that sooner or later, their paths will cross.

Danielle Von Gunther is ready ...

[Adrian Tullberg]

Double Post ...

... pay no attention to the man behind the curtain ...

[OzBat!]

I wanna see Gorilla Grodd's little sister revealed as a bigger badass than he ever dreamed of. She's pissed off that female gorillas have only ever been represented by Giganta, and what a rip off that was! She's all about the equality... by force, preferably.

[Eliseu Gouveia]

Well... maybe not for the long run, but maybe an issue or two. Nothing permanent, the fans would go nuts. That's why I said a series of jobs. Some as unglamorous as possible, some pretty okay (being a substitute teacher or something). But I can't for the life of me see how it's humanly possible to say she's learning how to relate to normal humans in a line of work that provides jetpacks and holographic masks. That's industrial grade aged to perfection pure concentrated horse manure, and anyone that says otherwise really should have decency to turn red as a beet with shame.

LOL
Yeah, but there´s a prob with low key jobs. Making a buck fifteen an hour plus some fat pig barking orders at her all day at the local pizza kinda goes against the whole female empowering thing.

Oh right ... just to make you happy ...

Danielle Von Gunther was a German Aristocrat sans trust fund. She enrolled in the military, displaying extraordinary aptitude, and garnered considerable acclaim as the military liason attached to GSG 9.

Her sudden resignation was dogged by rumours that she'd been seliing weaponry on the black market. Due to her contacts from her family and the one's she made as an officer, she gained a number of lucrative consultancy jobs for various military hardware corporations.

In between contracts, Von Gunther was made an offer by a group of industrialists. Her practical aptitude plus her influence in certain circles made her the perfect candidate for a certain role.

They needed someone to fan the flames of conflict in certain places around the globe. It had to be one person; organisations tended to leak. One person who could negotiate with a third-world despot, make light-hearted banter at diplomatic soires, and send a .50 calibre bullet between someone's eyes a mile away. Because for the right people, war was good for one thing - money.

The job was intriguing, and the pay was generous. Von Gunther accepted.

Danielle has been doing this for a while now, and is very good at what she does.

Diana of Themyscira has been noticed by her for a while now.

She knows that sooner or later, their paths will cross.

Danielle Von Gunther is ready ...

You´ve put some thought into it, me likes it :)

Danielle looks like a tough cookie and a good oponent for Diana, but I was hoping for an actual powerhouse. Someone who could trade blows with her both in the physical and ideological arenas. Her own private Darkseid, Mongul, Bizarro,
Nothing wrong with human oponents, Superman gets them all the time.
But I´d like an Anti-Monitor-class threat for her nemesis.
A hero is defined by the threats s/he faces and if she´s going to be a superhero, she needs super-threats.

[diana_fan]

See, the problem with the Government Secret Agency job is not just that it is a ridiculous way for Diana to "connect" with humanity (even though that was never a problem for her before, AT ALL).

It is that is just shoehorning the character into something where she doesn't fit, for nostalgia's sake, and nothing more. Let's face it: the ONLY reason for her working for the DMA is the TV show. Because someone grew up loving Lynda Carter (I did too, when I was 9), we are stuck with this storyline.

Bill Messner-Loebs already wrote this storyline. Diana was without support of her people or her friends, and was without money. She got a job at Taco Whiz, and had to struggle to meet the rent, buy food, etc. And Messner-Loebs did it a HELL of a lot better than this current crew is doing it.

The whole re-launch has been a series of humiliations for Diana. And one could tell from Picoult's interviews that she has some disrespect for the character. It comes through in the comic. It's a shame. Because Matt Idelson's wife (or whoever it was) liked Picoult's novels, we're stuck with someone who doesn't even respect the character writing her book.

Ugh. I'm off on a rant again. OK, that's enough.

I really, REALLY want Diana to have some space adventures in the book. She's an excellent foil for a guy like Hal. And they would have wonderful chemistry, too. Or Guy. Heh. :) Kyle and Diana are too much alike, in some ways. But any space adventure with either Guy or Hal would be fantastic. Diana could establish her "space cred" on other planets.

Plus part of me is a Hal/Diana 'shipper at heart, even though I hate the idea of being a 'shipper at all. But I can't help it in this case. :) They should at least be flirty.

[Typo Lad]

You know, I was going to comment how "space adventure" is almost as bad a fit for Wonder Woman as "secret agent", but then I remembered Marston's versions of Mars and Venus, which were entertainingly odd (as opposed to oddly entertaining).

[Eliseu Gouveia]

Plus part of me is a Hal/Diana 'shipper at heart, even though I hate the idea of being a 'shipper at all. But I can't help it in this case. :) They should at least be flirty.

Whyyyyyyy?

You had me line, hook and sinker til this part.

I hate, I loathe the idea of Diana getting involved with a cape from another book. If she´s to have a romantic interest, s/he should be a character specifically designed for her in her own book, like Lois was created for Supes or the fridge girl was designed for Kyle.

Other than that, yeah, it would be interesting seeing Diana go against a cosmic threat and getting reputation across the stars.

[diana_fan]

You know, I was going to comment how "space adventure" is almost as bad a fit for Wonder Woman as "secret agent", but then I remembered Marston's versions of Mars and Venus, which were entertainingly odd (as opposed to oddly entertaining).

The reasons why it is a good idea are two-fold (at least):

1. Diana can be paired up with either Hal or Guy, and Diana is foil to both of them, clearly. Her ways of dealing with situations are different than either Hal's or Guy's. And their personalities would play off of each other well.

2. Diana is known to even the most obscure tribesman in the heart of the Amazon. But in space? Not so much. So you could have stories where a planet is attempting to deal with the reality of the Amazing Amazon. That alone is a good enough story to start with. Someone completely unaware of Diana's personality trying to interact with her? Come on.

[Eliseu Gouveia]

P.S.: With that said, I think a Diana /Guy team up would be awesome, they´re so opposite to each other the dialogue/rage fest would be a sight to behold. :D

[Typo Lad]

Fridge girl was actually created to die, not to be an ongoing love interest. Which is what made it even more annoying.

I'd love to see Wonder Woman fall in love with a normal, ordinary guy. That would be a way to explore the normal, everyday world.

[Cayman]

I kinda like Diana and Arthur together.

The real Aquaman though, not the himbo in the current book.

[Eliseu Gouveia]

Fridge girl was actually created to die, not to be an ongoing love interest. Which is what made it even more annoying.

Yeah, but at least she was a GL character.

They didn´t go out and sto... kidn...snatch... borrowed :cool: a character from another book to hook Kyle with.

[Typo Lad]

Hah. Poor, poor Donna "trophy" Troy.

[diana_fan]

Fridge girl was actually created to die, not to be an ongoing love interest. Which is what made it even more annoying.

I'd love to see Wonder Woman fall in love with a normal, ordinary guy. That would be a way to explore the normal, everyday world.

No it wouldn't.

It would be a way of exploring a number of older stories that have already been done.

And how could an "ordinary" guy handle Diana? She should be with Hal or Bruce.

or Io. :eek:

[Typo Lad]

Yes, and Superman should totally not be with Lois Lane. I mena, she's so ordinary.

The core concept of Diana is essentially an immortal who leaves paradise because she's in love with a mortal. The rest is trappings. Perez dropped that and played up the preaching aspect, but I think a return to the original concept (minus constant fetishism) would be welcome.

[diana_fan]

Yes, and Superman should totally not be with Lois Lane. I mena, she's so ordinary.

The core concept of Diana is essentially an immortal who leaves paradise because she's in love with a mortal. The rest is trappings. Perez dropped that and played up the preaching aspect, but I think a return to the original concept (minus constant fetishism) would be welcome.

This is the problem: the Diana to whom you are referring is NOT the Diana of the Modern Age.

And this whole Steve Trevor as D-i-D is ridiculous. Hey, no one loves bondage more than I do, but I do not think a return to Marston's WW is what we need right now. That's simply not the Diana of today.

[JKCarrier]

And how could an "ordinary" guy handle Diana? She should be with Hal or Bruce.

The problem with pairing Diana with another superhero is that she's inevitably going to become second fiddle to them (See: Storm and Black Panther). Lots of heroes have done just fine with "ordinary" romantic interests: Superman, Flash (Jay, Barry, AND Wally), Spider-Man, etc. etc. Supporting characters are just that -- support, not competition.

[Typo Lad]

The Diana of the Modern Age is a cypher. She's so open to interpritation that the practically a non-entity. Rucka's run was good, but it was mostly the world reacting to Wonder Woman, not the other way around. We haven't seen that since Perez, really.

Wonder Woman's male interest being mortal doesn't mean he has to be a Dude in Distress. Indeed, I would suspect that the perfect "catch" for Diana would be a normal person, albiet brave. Someone who goes out of his way to help others, even at risk to himself.

A soldier or police officer would work, for example.

Perez's Wonder Woman was great, really. Very mythological in scope. I just don't see it as the principle archetype.

[Typo Lad]

The problem with pairing Diana with another superhero is that she's inevitably going to become second fiddle to them (See: Storm and Black Panther). Lots of heroes have done just fine with "ordinary" romantic interests: Superman, Flash (Jay, Barry, AND Wally), Spider-Man, etc. etc. Supporting characters are just that -- support, not competition.

Actually, the only way I'd enjoy a WW/Hero pairing is if he became second fiddle to her. That would be a nice change from the typical DCU hero pairing (see Kyle/Jade, Kyle/Donna, Nightwing/anyone)

[Damo]

LOL
Yeah, but there´s a prob with low key jobs. Making a buck fifteen an hour plus some fat pig barking orders at her all day at the local pizza kinda goes against the whole female empowering thing.


Hence why I said to only do it for an issue or two, and suggested some more empowering things as well. Have her be a teacher, work at a woman's shelter, build houses. But yeah, if you're going to say "Diana Prince needs to exist so Wonder Woman can find out what normal human lives are like"... well some "normal human lives" are far from empowering. Some just plain suck. I would loathe the idea of her staying in a bad job for more than a couple of issues, but if you're honestly going to sit there and say she needs to see how "regular" folks live, then she should get the bad bits as well. Not "oops, I don't know how to pump gas or use a turnstall, durr durr durr" bad bits. "This job sucks, it makes me smell bad, the boss is a jerk, the customers are rude, and when I leave this I'll have a better understanding of the people that have to live lives like this" bad. I don't know what she's learning from being a superspy, but it sure as hell isn't how normal people live. She may as well be sitting around talking to the Justice League.

It's an either/or thing. Either you're SERIOUS about her needing to see what normal people live like, in which case she should really not have a glamorous and empowering job... or if people really want her to have a glamorous and empowering job, then they need to stop backing it up by spouting nonsense about how she's learning to be "normal" from it.

[Shade]

The problem with pairing Diana with another superhero is that she's inevitably going to become second fiddle to them (See: Storm and Black Panther). Lots of heroes have done just fine with "ordinary" romantic interests: Superman, Flash (Jay, Barry, AND Wally), Spider-Man, etc. etc. Supporting characters are just that -- support, not competition.

I don't know. I think Peter David made a romance between Aquaman and WW very plausible. I don't see her as being second fiddle to him in any way.

[Corrina]

The problem with pairing Diana with another superhero is that she's inevitably going to become second fiddle to them (See: Storm and Black Panther).

Dinah/Ollie.

The book was renamed Green Lantern/Green Arrow back when they co-starred.

But only Green Arrow was in the title when Dinah co-starred and had just as long a history in the DCU universe.

It might work now, and looks like they're going to try a GA/BC titled book, but the concept is the same.

I really liked the Steve Trevor in the JLU WWII episode.

So this Diana didn't leave Paradise Island because there was a crisis in the outside world? Why did she leave then?

(Yes, yes, I really should get the Perez stuff. And I'm not saying that it should go back to the original "Diana leaves the island for Steve Trevor." I'm just curious how it works now.)

[Eliseu Gouveia]

Hence why I said to only do it for an issue or two, and suggested some more empowering things as well. Have her be a teacher, work at a woman's shelter, build houses. But yeah, if you're going to say "Diana Prince needs to exist so Wonder Woman can find out what normal human lives are like"... well some "normal human lives" are far from empowering. Some just plain suck. I would loathe the idea of her staying in a bad job for more than a couple of issues, but if you're honestly going to sit there and say she needs to see how "regular" folks live, then she should get the bad bits as well. Not "oops, I don't know how to pump gas or use a turnstall, durr durr durr" bad bits. "This job sucks, it makes me smell bad, the boss is a jerk, the customers are rude, and when I leave this I'll have a better understanding of the people that have to live lives like this" bad. I don't know what she's learning from being a superspy, but it sure as hell isn't how normal people live. She may as well be sitting around talking to the Justice League.

It's an either/or thing. Either you're SERIOUS about her needing to see what normal people live like, in which case she should really not have a glamorous and empowering job... or if people really want her to have a glamorous and empowering job, then they need to stop backing it up by spouting nonsense about how she's learning to be "normal" from it.

I think getting her several jobs is not necessarily the way to go if they want her to "relate to normal humans".
Getting her a good cast of supporting characters who share their lives with her is a good way for her to get immersed in the "human sphere".

The other day I was watching Two and a Half Men (- Quiet, back there!)when I suddenly stopped to ask: What IS Charlie Sheen´s job? We know he´s a bad casanova who gets into weird, messy situations, his brother and nephew live at his house but how does he pay for that house?

Diana could be Charlie Sheen. :D
The weird uncle who nobody really knows how he makes a living, always getting himself in complicated situations, two freeloaders hanging at his place all day....

think of the potential here!

[diana_fan]

So this Diana didn't leave Paradise Island because there was a crisis in the outside world? Why did she leave then?

(Yes, yes, I really should get the Perez stuff. And I'm not saying that it should go back to the original "Diana leaves the island for Steve Trevor." I'm just curious how it works now.)

She left because she needed to save the world from Ares. As it turns out, she is a match for Ares, both intellectually and morally. She's able to deal with Ares on an intelectual leve and make him re-asses his values.

Now, she's an idiot who can't figure out a turnstile. Once she could stand with gods. Now she is below the most stupid of mortals.

Decide for yourself which is a better portrayal.

[Eliseu Gouveia]

Or Kramer!

Diana could be Kramer, the "weird" neighbour whose job nobody really knows, always at your place munching food, has a collection of weird (super)friends, gets into messy situations.....

Ooooh, I´m brainstorming now. :D

[Corrina]

Yes, but does Ares know how to use a turnstile? :)

[Cayman]

She left because she needed to save the world from Ares. As it turns out, she is a match for Ares, both intellectually and morally. She's able to deal with Ares on an intelectual leve and make him re-asses his values.

Now, she's an idiot who can't figure out a turnstile. Once she could stand with gods. Now she is below the most stupid of mortals.

Decide for yourself which is a better portrayal.

Aww come on, she just didn't know she needed the little ticket to make it turn.

[Eliseu Gouveia]

Yes, but does Ares know how to use a turnstile? :)

Like most man-made instruments of destruction, I´m pretty sure Ares was involved in the creation of turnstiles. :D

[diana_fan]

Yes, but does Ares know how to use a turnstile? :)

Look at Ares. The guy knows pretty much eveything. :) I'm a straight guy, and even *I* think Ares is hot. :)

Really, you need to read the Perez books. Diana standing up against Ares is an example of how strong she was, both physically, but more importantly intelectually and emotionally.

That's what it is all about, as far as I'm concerned.

Perez wrote Diana as the Ultimate Woman in the DCU. You can't find that Ultimate Woman now.

[stealthwise]

I think getting her several jobs is not necessarily the way to go if they want her to "relate to normal humans".
Getting her a good cast of supporting characters who share their lives with her is a good way for her to get immersed in the "human sphere".

The other day I was watching Two and a Half Men (- Quiet, back there!)when I suddenly stopped to ask: What IS Charlie Sheen´s job? We know he´s a bad casanova who gets into weird, messy situations, his brother and nephew live at his house but how does he pay for that house?

Diana could be Charlie Sheen. :D
The weird uncle who nobody really knows how he makes a living, always getting himself in complicated situations, two freeloaders hanging at his place all day....

think of the potential here!

I watch that show every week, most of the time it's pretty obvious that Charlie is a musician, he just rarely works.

Which is how most sitcoms work. Seinfeld had very few episodes where he was doing his act, especially in the later seasons, and if you can name me a show, besides the Office, that's set in an office and has people actually working... well, yeah, they just don't.

Because people don't give a damn about that kind of stuff.

So with Wonder Woman, here's an idea, instead of a lot of talking, and a lot of focus on what makes Diana work as a character, including MORE talking (I'm looking at Rucka), just have an issue or ten where she's going out and doing stuff, being proactive, and not caught in some personal crisis where it's obvious the creative team is only half-assed certain about who and what she is.

That's why I have faith in Gail, she'll just cut to the quick and not screw around. My favourite character trait of Agent X is that he didn't CARE about his amnesia, it just made it easier for him to be a badass and not worry about the consequences.

[heystacy]

More villians who are a real threat to Diana would be nice. Honestly Circie is the worst villain, because she is only good at being frequent. Circie needs her own title and something to do other than hate on amazons.

[Eliseu Gouveia]

Stealthwise - Thanks for clearing that up, I´ve only seen a couple episodes, so I´m not vbery savvy on the story.
I do think WW has always been portrayed as being very proactive and hands-on.
Only thing I ever had a gripe about is her complete lack of a romantic interest.
Aside from going ga-ga over Trevor Barnes, her love life is pretty much sterile.


heystacy - Sorry, but I disagree. I think Circe is awesome and just oozes potential. Prob is she does appear WAY too often but has never been fully explored.

[Cayman]

I don't know that Circe's any more overused than Lex Luthor or Joker.

[Indigo Al]

Not hide or hair of the GODDAMN BATMAN.

"Will they or won't they?" - "Don't give up on them....Bruce." "What are you doing here....Diana?" Ech. I'm sure they couldn't resist boosting the book's sales by throwing Bats in there - but ENOUGH. At the rate they were going, WW was probably gonna turn into a domesticated bat-lieutenant.

Do you hear me Gail? NO BATMAN. EVER.

[Eliseu Gouveia]

Not hide or hair of the GODDAMN BATMAN.

"Will they or won't they?" - "Don't give up on them....Bruce." "What are you doing here....Diana?" Ech. I'm sure they couldn't resist boosting the book's sales by throwing Bats in there - but ENOUGH. At the rate they were going, WW was probably gonna turn into a domesticated bat-lieutenant.

Do you hear me Gail? NO BATMAN. EVER.

Agreed, WW should stand on her own without the need for other capes.
That´s another reason why I´d like the book as compartimentalised as possible, with one cameo from another DCU character every 50 issues-maybe-.
Crossovers used to be cute and all but now they´re just annoying.

[diana_fan]

Not hide or hair of the GODDAMN BATMAN.

"Will they or won't they?" - "Don't give up on them....Bruce." "What are you doing here....Diana?" Ech. I'm sure they couldn't resist boosting the book's sales by throwing Bats in there - but ENOUGH. At the rate they were going, WW was probably gonna turn into a domesticated bat-lieutenant.

Do you hear me Gail? NO BATMAN. EVER.

That's insane.

Wonder Woman and Batman have great chemistry! Why would you want to separate them?

[Adrian Tullberg]

That's insane.

Wonder Woman and Batman have great chemistry! Why would you want to separate them?

True, that.

They're similar enough to get together, while different enough to make things ... interesting ...

[Indigo Al]

That's insane.

Wonder Woman and Batman have great chemistry! Why would you want to separate them?

It's been overdone ever since Kingdom Come stated that "they hate each other" - code for "they want to knock boots". In virtually all his guest appearances he overshadows her, and claims more panel time. The Hiketeia is supposed to be a Wonder Woman story - she gets top billing. But what do you see on the cover? Her boot, and his happy face.

In short, it adds nothing to her stories, and it 'dilutes' her somehow.

[Eliseu Gouveia]

It's been overdone ever since Kingdom Come stated that "they hate each other" - code for "they want to knock boots". In virtually all his guest appearances he overshadows her, and claims more panel time. The Hiketeia is supposed to be a Wonder Woman story - she gets top billing. But what do you see on the cover? Her boot, and his happy face.

In short, it adds nothing to her stories, and it 'dilutes' her somehow.

Here, here.
I am tired of seeing fans trying to get her in bed with their favorite hero.
Aquaman fans want her to hook up with Arthur, Bat fans want her knocking boots with Bruce, Supes fans want her decorating the fortress of solitude. Ollie, Guy, Kyle, take your pick......heck, THOR fans want her sleeping with him and he´s not even a DC character!

Diana has literaly become the ultimate trophy.

[heystacy]

heystacy - Sorry, but I disagree. I think Circe is awesome and just oozes potential. Prob is she does appear WAY too often but has never been fully explored.

I see her potential, but its marred by her constant appearences in Wonder Woman. I know there are some other villians Diana could handle.

Again, maybe Circie needs her own limited series.

[Eliseu Gouveia]

I see her potential, but its marred by her constant appearences in Wonder Woman. I know there are some other villians Diana could handle.

Again, maybe Circie needs her own limited series.

Dont´get me wrong, I do agree that she suffers from both over-exposure and mishandling which may have eroded her (great!) potential.

[heystacy]

I don't know that Circe's any more overused than Lex Luthor or Joker.

But there are other compelling Batman & Superman villians that we see as well. Circie is the strongest, and that's it.

[heystacy]

Dont´get me wrong, I do agree that she suffers from both over-exposure and mishandling which may have eroded her (great!) potential.

I trust if Gail uses her, we will have a real great story.

[Indigo Al]

Things I'd like to see:

a) If no secret id: a continuation of Rucka's West Wing scenario, the best place for Diana to nurture a supporting cast and 'character moments' that ground her.

I used to be a strong proponent of the need for a Diana Prince id until Rucka showed us she could be a full-time immortal warrior myth character and not be as boring as Marvel Hercules or Gilgamesh the Forgotten One.

b) Baroness Paula Von Gunther, She-Wolf of the Pacific Northwest Aryan National Front

c) Weird loopy surreal Paradise Island wackiness.

d) Steve Trevor? Io? Why can't Diana date around a bit?

[Evan Waters]

She left because she needed to save the world from Ares. As it turns out, she is a match for Ares, both intellectually and morally. She's able to deal with Ares on an intelectual leve and make him re-asses his values.

Now, she's an idiot who can't figure out a turnstile. Once she could stand with gods. Now she is below the most stupid of mortals.

Decide for yourself which is a better portrayal.

Now, you're really distorting things. Even if not being familiar with a turnstile was out of character for Diana, it didn't make her an idiot, any more than I was an idiot for not knowing that British phone lines weren't compatible with a US modem. Not knowing something is not the same as being stupid. Not knowing ANYTHING is being stupid.

[Adrian Tullberg]

Steve Trevor? Io? Why can't Diana date around a bit?

That fact that he's married, was the bridesmaid at the wedding and good friends with his wife would make it a tad out of character.

Io? No real problems with that.

[BnL]

Now, you're really distorting things. Even if not being familiar with a turnstile was out of character for Diana, it didn't make her an idiot, any more than I was an idiot for not knowing that British phone lines weren't compatible with a US modem. Not knowing something is not the same as being stupid. Not knowing ANYTHING is being stupid.

Sure, but that's not how it happened in the comic. If she didn't know what a turnstile was, or how to use it, she would have watched to see how everyone else passed through in front of her. That's what any of us would do, because our brains are functioning normally. Diana didn't. She just walked up to it and tried to pass through. It didn't work. So, guided by the wisdom of Athena, she held her head up defiantly, put her hands on her hips, and tried ONCE AGAIN to pass through in the exact same way. If you saw a person do that in real life, you would wonder what kind of monster her caretaker is for abandoning her in the middle of the subway terminal.

[Indigo Al]

That fact that he's married, was the bridesmaid at the wedding and good friends with his wife would make it a tad out of character.

Io? No real problems with that.

A retcon punch, Zero Hour, or a journey from another earth could take care of that....but ultimately, I don't really care if it's Steve Trevor or not. He's just another important character in Diana's mythos

[diana_fan]

Here, here.
I am tired of seeing fans trying to get her in bed with their favorite hero.
Aquaman fans want her to hook up with Arthur, Bat fans want her knocking boots with Bruce, Supes fans want her decorating the fortress of solitude. Ollie, Guy, Kyle, take your pick......heck, THOR fans want her sleeping with him and he´s not even a DC character!

Diana has literaly become the ultimate trophy.


Diana and Batman have chemistry because of how different they are. They both believe in the same core values, or some of the same core values. But they are like different sides of a coin. Diana is light and Bruce is dark. She is (was) a Princess, and he is the Dark Knight.

There's no way they shouldn't romance.

And I completely disagree with the idea of Batman overshadowing her whenever they are together. He definitely didn't overshadow her in The Hiketeia, or during the "Gods of Gotham" story for instance. Batman casts a long shadow, true. But Diana is a big girl and can handle that.

[Shade]

Diana and Batman have chemistry because of how different they are. They both believe in the same core values, or some of the same core values. But they are like different sides of a coin. Diana is light and Bruce is dark. She is (was) a Princess, and he is the Dark Knight.

There's no way they shouldn't romance.

And I completely disagree with the idea of Batman overshadowing her whenever they are together. He definitely didn't overshadow her in The Hiketeia, or during the "Gods of Gotham" story for instance. Batman casts a long shadow, true. But Diana is a big girl and can handle that.

See to me I still see Diana in that "Goddess of Truth" role and her being that my feeling is when she looks at Bruce, she still sees that kid in the alley crying over his parents.

[Eliseu Gouveia]

Diana and Batman have chemistry because of how different they are. They both believe in the same core values, or some of the same core values. But they are like different sides of a coin. Diana is light and Bruce is dark. She is (was) a Princess, and he is the Dark Knight.

There's no way they shouldn't romance.

And I completely disagree with the idea of Batman overshadowing her whenever they are together. He definitely didn't overshadow her in The Hiketeia, or during the "Gods of Gotham" story for instance. Batman casts a long shadow, true. But Diana is a big girl and can handle that.

Please.

- Diana and Guy Garner have chemistry because of how different they are. They both believe in the same core values, or some of the same core values. But they are like different sides of a coin. Diana is light and Guy is dark. She is (was) a Princess, and he is a mean bastard.

There's no way they shouldn't romance.

- Diana and Aquaman have chemistry because of how different they are. They both believe in the same core values, or some of the same core values. But they are like different sides of a coin. Diana is the sky, Arthur is 1,000 fathoms. She is (was) a Princess, and he is a king.

There's no way they shouldn't romance.

- Diana and Thor have chemistry because of how different they are. They both believe in the same core values, or some of the same core values. But they are like different sides of a coin. Diana is light and Thor is lightning. She is (was) a Princess, and he is a God.

- There's no way they shouldn't romance.

Diana and Black Lightning have chemistry because of how different they are. They both believe in the same core values, or some of the same core values. But they are like different sides of a coin. Diana is magic and Jefferson is down-to-earth. She is (was) a Princess, and he is streetwise.

- There's no way they shouldn't romance.


Diana and Nightwing have chemistry because of how different they are. They both believe in the same core values, or some of the same core values. But they are like different sides of a coin. Diana is light and Dick is dark. She is (was) a Princess, and he is a night prince.

There's no way they shouldn't romance.

- Diana and Cyborg have chemistry because of how different they are. They both believe in the same core values, or some of the same core values. But they are like different sides of a coin. Diana is myth and Vic is science. She is (was) a Princess, and he is the cyber Knight.

There's no way they shouldn't romance.

Diana and Superman have chemistry because of how different they are. They both believe in the same core values, or some of the same core values. But they are like different sides of a coin. Diana is a warrior and Clark is an icon. She is (was) a magic Princess, and he is an alien messiah.

There's no way they shouldn't romance.

Diana and Oracle have chemistry because of how different they are. They both believe in the same core values, or some of the same core values. But they are like different sides of a coin. Diana is light and Barbara is dark. She is (was) a magic Princess, and she is a cyber queen.

There's no way they shouldn't romance.


See how easy this is?
Every fan can build a case for why his favorite hero should be the one to bang Diana.
Hell, I could build a case for Swamp Thing right now!!!

How about an actual Wonder Woman fan step to the plate and make a case for Diana herself, in her own terms?
Create a perfect mate for her (like Lois was created for Superman and Fridge Girl for Kyle) instead of just going over to other books and picking some lucky schmoe who´ll get to score with her?

[diana_fan]

How about an actual Wonder Woman fan step to the plate and make a case for Diana herself, in her own terms?
Create a perfect mate for her (like Lois was created for Superman and Fridge Girl for Kyle) instead of just going over to other books and picking some lucky schmoe who´ll get to score with her?

What are you talking about?!

For one thing, I wouldn't say that Batman is my favorite hero. I just see Batman and Diana having chemistry.

But beyond that, an "actual Wonder Woman fan"? What's up with that?

Where did I say that I was looking for someone to "score with" her? God. All I said is that I see them as an interesting romance. It's not like I am the first person to suggest it. It's played out in a number of books.

I'm not interested in seeing someone created to be her lover. That's just me. My opinion.

[Typo Lad]

So you'd rather drag an existing hero in and religate him (or her, hey!) to being her love interest?

[diana_fan]

So you'd rather drag an existing hero in and religate him (or her, hey!) to being her love interest?

Woh! That's not what I said (or at least not what I intended).

I don't think that a love interest for Diana has to be in every issue, or even most issues. I think that a romance between Bruce and Diana could play out, subtly and quietly, in Justice League of America, for instance, and be referenced and occasionally see in her own book.

To be honest, I don't see Diana's love life as being all that important to the character. So, it doesn't need to play a big part in her book, AFAIC.

Of course, Diana is already together with Superman on Earth-22. ;)

[Eliseu Gouveia]

What are you talking about?!

For one thing, I wouldn't say that Batman is my favorite hero. I just see Batman and Diana having chemistry.

This is Wonder Woman, the quintessential love goddess of a thousand fanfics.
Everyone has chemistry with her.
You just happen to be biaised toward Batman like others are toward Aquaman, Superman, Hal Jordan or Thor.
Any fan can build a case for why such and such hero should hook up with her.
Like I said, I could build a case for her and Swamp Thing right now! Lobo. Koriander. Tim Drake! Fire.



But beyond that, an "actual Wonder Woman fan"? What's up with that?

Where did I say that I was looking for someone to "score with" her? God. All I said is that I see them as an interesting romance. It's not like I am the first person to suggest it. It's played out in a number of books.

Same goes for Aquaman, Superman, Batman, Hal, Guy and god knows who else. They have all been suggested before.
Doesn´t work.
For one, it´s a creative hassle.
You have to consult the other character´s writer every 5 minutes to see if it´s alright to put him in a scenne since he may be in another galaxy fighting aliens.
For another, it´s a legal headache.
You want to put Batman in your Smallvil....er, Wonder Woman movie. The studio who holds the rights to Batman gives you an ultimatum:" Get your paws OFF him, Bats is OURS."



I'm not interested in seeing someone created to be her lover. That's just me. My opinion.


What about Steve Trevor?
He was created to be a romantic interest from the get-go.

[diana_fan]

What about Steve Trevor?
He was created to be a romantic interest from the get-go.

I have about as much interest in Steve Trevor, Dude in Distress, as I have in moss.

[Typo Lad]

I have about as much interest in Steve Trevor, Dude in Distress, as I have in moss.

So you think the DiD thing is intrinsic to the character? Because I think a writer with a knack (say, on that wrote a delightfully capable Lois Lane), could make a Steve Trevor very interesting.

[Cayman]

Maybe Diana should get with a nice New God, like that handsome Lightray.

[diana_fan]

So you think the DiD thing is intrinsic to the character? Because I think a writer with a knack (say, on that wrote a delightfully capable Lois Lane), could make a Steve Trevor very interesting.

I prefer Trevor as older, married to Ettta, as Perez re-conceptualized him. If Diana is to have a love life at all she should be interested in both Batman and Io. That's the way I see it. Sue me.

Io really loves her. I'm not saying that Diana should be a lesbian. But that issue that was narrated by Io was about the most beautiful thing I had read in a comic. Rucka went the extra mile in that issue.

I cried. Again, make fun of me you want. But it made me cry. Such a sense of loss. :(

I'm interested in Diana's love life, but I don't think it makes for her a big deal. I really don't.

[Typo Lad]

Maybe Diana should get with a nice New God, like that handsome Lightray.

I think Orion wouldn't like that. He's the jelous type.

[Eliseu Gouveia]

I have about as much interest in Steve Trevor, Dude in Distress, as I have in moss.



Like Typo Lad said, Steve Trevor is only a DID because writers never found innovative new ways to write him.

Same reason why Circe is boring. Nobody knows how to use her.

Personally, I´d rather see Diana with someone able to physically trade blows with her or fly by her side and symoultaneously be clever enough to keep her guessing.
A whole plethora of would-be romantic candidates (some capes, some villains).specifically created for her book to appear in her stories.

Unfortunately (for me), people seem bent on pairing capes with regular humans, so we keep falling back on Steve Trevors and Trevor Barnes.

[diana_fan]

It bugs me that we are spending this muc time talking about Diana's love life. It's not that interesting.

[Eliseu Gouveia]

It bugs me that we are spending this muc time talking about Diana's love life. It's not that interesting.

Unfortunatelly, it´s not only not interesting but it´s pretty much nonexistent.

And coming from a guy who puts as much weight in a character´s emotional life as he puts on how many giant robots she destroys per month, I think that it´s just sad how barren her love life has become.

[diana_fan]

Unfortunatelly, it´s not only not interesting but it´s pretty much nonexistent.

And coming from a guy who puts as much weight in a character´s emotional life as he puts on how many giant robots she destroys per month, I think that it´s just sad how barren her love life has become.

Ouch.

I don't know how to respond to this, really.

[heystacy]

I think Diana should have a wealth of men to choose from. Here we have the most beautiful, and powerful woman on the planet, and there are no men bold or arrogant enough to think she should be at his side as his wife. Not that they'd succeed, but I think some amusing stories could be told from this standpoint.

I would love to see Gail capitalize on the gifts the gods gave Diana. Beauty and brains is one of them.

[JKCarrier]

I think that it´s just sad how barren her love life has become.

It is kind of strange... the fans seem to want her to hook up with everybody, and DC editorial doesn't want her to hook up with anybody. :p

But if WW is going to have a love interest, I think it's better to have one that the WW office is in full control of, rather than someone they have to share with other editors. Look how often we see characters getting abruptly yanked out of the JLA, because of storylines going on in their solo books. The WW writer might have this lovely, long-term Diana/Bruce scenario worked out, and halfway through the Batman editor says, "We decided to have Bruce hook up with Vicki Vale for a while. Sorry!"

[TomStillwell]

It is kind of strange... the fans seem to want her to hook up with everybody, and DC editorial doesn't want her to hook up with anybody. :p

But if WW is going to have a love interest, I think it's better to have one that the WW office is in full control of, rather than someone they have to share with other editors. Look how often we see characters getting abruptly yanked out of the JLA, because of storylines going on in their solo books. The WW writer might have this lovely, long-term Diana/Bruce scenario worked out, and halfway through the Batman editor says, "We decided to have Bruce hook up with Vicki Vale for a while. Sorry!"

I really, really wanted to see what Kelly was doing with Bruce and Diana in JLA come to fruition. I was very sad to see it axed.

The relationship to me makes perfect sense. Instead DC will eternal keep the Catwoman/Batman thing going. Frankly, I'm pretty bored with it.

[Eliseu Gouveia]

I think Diana should have a wealth of men to choose from. Here we have the most beautiful, and powerful woman on the planet, and there are no men bold or arrogant enough to think she should be at his side as his wife. Not that they'd succeed, but I think some amusing stories could be told from this standpoint.

I would love to see Gail capitalize on the gifts the gods gave Diana. Beauty and brains is one of them.

EXACTLY!! :D

Imagine the hundreds of funny/sad/interesting/awkward/hillarious/tragic/awesome situations that could be written around the fact that she has a dozen potential candidates.

Girl has the beauty of Aphrodite but how many writers have actually addresed that?
Capes, regular joes and janes, supervillains, she should have a legion of admirers and potentials.

[heystacy]

EXACTLY!! :D

Imagine the hundreds of funny/sad/interesting/awkward/hillarious/tragic/awesome situations that could be written around the fact that she has a dozen potential candidates.

Girl has the beauty of Aphrodite but how many writers have actually addresed that?
Capes, regular joes and janes, supervillains, she should have a legion of admirers and potentials.

I can see these stories happening. I'd like to see some of the suitors. What if Diana did a charity date or kiss event? Oh my gods, what toads the princess may have to kiss. LOL

[Eliseu Gouveia]

It is kind of strange... the fans seem to want her to hook up with everybody, and DC editorial doesn't want her to hook up with anybody. :p

But if WW is going to have a love interest, I think it's better to have one that the WW office is in full control of, rather than someone they have to share with other editors. Look how often we see characters getting abruptly yanked out of the JLA, because of storylines going on in their solo books. The WW writer might have this lovely, long-term Diana/Bruce scenario worked out, and halfway through the Batman editor says, "We decided to have Bruce hook up with Vicki Vale for a while. Sorry!"

My sentiments exactly.

Just look at how the Storm/Black Panther situation turned out.
She was a prominent leader of the X-Men, the best selling book in the industry. Now, she lost protagonism and has to share panel real estate in a book read by twelve people. thirteen.

A writer should have the ability to dispose of the would-be omantic interest(s) as he/she wants. Give him/her superpowers, take them, kill them, bring back to life, slice into pieces and shove inside a refrigerator!
Just look at Superman.
Does Kurt Busiek have to consult with Rucka, Marz, Johns, Perez, Byrne, Moore or, Millar everytime he wants to write a scenne with Lois?

[Eliseu Gouveia]

I can see these stories happening. I'd like to see some of the suitors. What if Diana did a charity date or kiss event? Oh my gods, what toads the princess may have to kiss. LOL


I´ll second that LOL. :D

Heck, for those who just want to see her busting giant robots, whole scenarios could be created just around her romantic life.

Imagine if in that kissing event two guys in line started a fistfight.
Nothing wrong with that, right?
But what if those two were also planet-busting supercapes?
Now we have an all-out slugfest with Diana smack-dab in the middle.

[heystacy]

I´ll second that LOL. :D

Heck, for those who just want to see her busting giant robots, whole scenarios could be created just around her romantic life.

Imagine if in that kissing event two guys in line started a fistfight.
Nothing wrong with that, right?
But what if those two were also planet-busting supercapes?
Now we have an all-out slugfest with Diana smack-dab in the middle.

I wonder if Gail is taking requests...:cool:

[Eliseu Gouveia]

I wonder if Gail is taking requests...:cool:

LOL

Just throwing ideas around, I´m sure Gail has only about a zillion of her own. :p

[heystacy]

LOL

Just throwing ideas around, I´m sure Gail has only about a zillion of her own. :p

True. lol :)

[Damo]

Sure, but that's not how it happened in the comic. If she didn't know what a turnstile was, or how to use it, she would have watched to see how everyone else passed through in front of her. That's what any of us would do, because our brains are functioning normally. Diana didn't. She just walked up to it and tried to pass through. It didn't work. So, guided by the wisdom of Athena, she held her head up defiantly, put her hands on her hips, and tried ONCE AGAIN to pass through in the exact same way. If you saw a person do that in real life, you would wonder what kind of monster her caretaker is for abandoning her in the middle of the subway terminal.

Precisely. It's a matter of execution. We've had going on 2 decades of Diana not having any serious problems with the world of humans, even though she did spend a fair amount of time walking around outside. Then in the space of a few issues we're getting it all at once. Over in Superman she's going "Wow, a Cyber Cafe? I had no idea these things existed," with Lois Lane replying "Gee Wonder Woman, YOU SURE ARE OUT OF TOUCH, HAVE YOU BEEN LIVING IN A CAVE?" (I half expected her to start asking if Wonder Woman knew what Myspace was, or if she'd ever been to a NASCAR race...)

In Wonder Woman's own book we got a series of blunders, some of them just too much for me to buy (she doesn't know about credit cards?), leading up to her turning to face the reader, a tear rolling down her face as "Nemesis" spouts chicken soup and "The Apprehension of Wonder Woman" is subtly placed just above. And make sure every issue has at least one bit of conversation along the lines of "You're only human. WHOOPS, I forgot... YOU'RE NOT HUMAN!"

Enough already.

[BnL]

Regarding Diana's love life, I was actually thinking about this topic recently. I don't like how chaste and sexless she has appeared over the years. She has been written to seem like she has very little, if any, sexual desires. I think logically that Diana would be a very sensual woman who is very much in touch with her sexual side. She's a character from Greek myth, for god's sake! It's a big enough ommission that I think a retcon is in order to fix this.

Growing up in the amazon culture, hearing all the stories told to her by her sisters, she had dreams of having grand romantic adventures herself some day, like the characters in the stories. Unfortunately, she found, when she left the island, that the world had become a much more complicated place. Diseases, politics, cultral differences, not to mention the fact that she found herself to be pretty damn busy, all meant that her potential romantic pursuits would fizzle before they even began. First Superman, then Mike Schorr, then Herakles (posing as the hero Champion), then Rama, then Batman, then Trevor Barnes. All of them resulted in nothing more than brief flirtations or missed opportunities. It's not that she was hunting for the love of her life, but thinking in the context of her heritage, she had fantasized about having brief romantic adventures/encounters. Not shallow meaningless flings by any means, they would all mean something special to her, with people she truly cherished and wanted to share a piece of her heart. She just wasn't out hunting for a husband/boyfriend. The "missing year" after IC would have been a good opportunity for her to live out the fantasy, to a degree, and maybe by the end, she would settle on one as a regular companion.

I think that if Diana was originally conceived as a male character, none of this would be an issue, and we'd have seen the scenario I described actually happen, except he'd have actually consumated those desires rather than remaining chaste.

[Eliseu Gouveia]

Maybe I´m just another decadent euro-perv but I´d have no problem if Diana slept with everyone in the JLA/JSA She´s a grown, independent women, not a victorian damsel.
Problem is people are too hung up on the "consummation" issue.

Diana could/should have romantic interests, flirtations, chasing and being chased, there´s an entire UNIVERSE of situations that has never been explored with the character.
Has any writer ever stopped to delve into how a woman free from the shackles of our society, an amazon!! (double exclamation point) would deal with the matters of the heart?
Everyone needs love to one degree or another and Wonder Woman should be no different (if she´s to be human).

That doesn´t mean that she´ll be marrying Guy A, getting pregnant from guy B and having 3.4 babies in the next 5 issues.
No.
But it would be nice to know that there´s a couple dozen guys that have made her raise her eyebrow.

Between chasing and being chased, like the old saying goes, "it´s all in the game."

[Corrina]

Given she's immortal.....

And that the Amazons don't have any men around....

It seems to me that Diana would at least be bisexual or certainly open to it. And that she probably would have had at least one female lover among the Amazons. They obviously are not a chaste society.

I hestitate to go there, because of the fanboy excitement over lesbians, which is far out of all proportion, but it seems to me that bisexuality suits her background.

Not that I'm suggesting a lesbian lover, necessarily, but one of the small differences in Diana versus the rest of the humanity is probably her unconscious but deep feeling that women are utterly equal, and quite possibly superior. Think about it. She's grown up in the only society run completely by women. She's been in man's world a while but she's still going to automatically look at the women in the room as the authority figures, not the men. It's ingrained. And it's a big difference between her and the rest of the JLA. She must find it odd that Dinah, with her fighting skills plus her super-power, has had to struggle for respect.

And she must find it really, truly odd when people treat her as lesser because she's a woman. And Diana would pick up on all those unconscious signals given out by a society that is still, for the most part, run by men.

[Cayman]

Gah! She knows about credit cards, it just doesn't occur to her to actually have one! She's been above that necessity for years.

[BnL]

I'm not a fan of the idea of Diana having an amazon lover. These are the women who raised her from an infant. She's a grown woman now, but that would still be pretty creepy, in my opinion. As for her sexuality, I don't think the amazons define themselves the way we think of sexuality. It's not a black and white issue, they just are who they are, and they're very in touch with who they are, unlike our modern society, where everyone is only comfortable with strict categories. The thing about sexuality is also that finding someone attractive, and having romantic feelings for someone is not the same thing, and that's a distinction the amazons would know well. I could picture Diana being predominantly "heterosexual" in terms of romantic feelings, but "bisexual" in the sense that she thinks both men and women are beautiful and attractive.

[Corrina]

There are how many Amazons? A thousand? Five Hundred?

Plus the Amazons from Artemis' group that didn't have contact with Diana's Amazons. Or has that been retconned out?

I'd think at least a few of them wouldn't have met Diana until she was an adult.

But maybe they did view her as some sort of sacred vessel not to be touched, considering the whole 'made of clay' origin. Possible. Though my brain says Amazons are essentially humans and human...well, they like sex. A lot. What morals would be put forth that would give Diana the message that she shouldn't engage in sex like the rest of the citizens of Paradise Island? Do we know?

I'm just curious.

[Adrian Tullberg]

There are how many Amazons? A thousand? Five Hundred?

Plus the Amazons from Artemis' group that didn't have contact with Diana's Amazons. Or has that been retconned out?

I'd think at least a few of them wouldn't have met Diana until she was an adult.

But maybe they did view her as some sort of sacred vessel not to be touched, considering the whole 'made of clay' origin. Possible. Though my brain says Amazons are essentially humans and human...well, they like sex. A lot. What morals would be put forth that would give Diana the message that she shouldn't engage in sex like the rest of the citizens of Paradise Island? Do we know?

I'm just curious.

Okay, I thought about this some time ago, and came to this conclusion.

While the rest of the Amazons have had their third millenial birthday, Diana is still - what, late twenties, early thirties?

She grew up on that island with thousands of defacto aunties.

Diana is, still, the same little girl that they took turns changing her nappies and taught to tell the difference between a deer and a horsie.

I doubt one of them would be inclined to seduce - or to be receptive to seduction - to someone that's virtually family; a perpetual child in their eyes.

Even if one of them managed to leap that particular hurdle - she's royalty (yes, the monarcy has been abolished, but that's still present in their mind) and that's a pretty big class divide.

With both factors in play, it's nigh to impossible Diana got her end away before she left Themyscira.

Thoughts?

[Corrina]

That's also a possible scenario, and a good point about the royalty factor.

Though that does raise the question about why Diana wasn't curious about sex when she first showed up in man's world. If the Amazons were indulging and she'd been left out...well, hey....what is this she's been missing? Or I could be projecting here, because I would be damn curious.

But, depending on how the writer saw the background, it could go either way. Still, it's an issue that really hasn't been addressed, and it really is something that could be key to her character, one way or another.

But I would really like to see more of her unconscious preference that women in general are the authority figures. Sure, she'd be used to men by now but it wouldn't quite be the same thing as for a women who grew up in our society.

[Damo]

Gah! She knows about credit cards, it just doesn't occur to her to actually have one! She's been above that necessity for years.

Show me where it says that in the text. All I see is a woman going "Credit card? Gas Pump? Turnstile? Cyber Cafe?"

When your character is depicted glaring at Turnstiles as if THAT will make them work, and can't even buy a cup of coffee on her own, I see no reason to assume she meant "Oh, I know what a credit card is, I just don't have one," instead of "what the heck is a credit card?"

[Cayman]

Show me where it says that in the text. All I see is a woman going "Credit card? Gas Pump? Turnstile? Cyber Cafe?"

When your character is depicted glaring at Turnstiles as if THAT will make them work, and can't even buy a cup of coffee on her own, I see no reason to assume she meant "Oh, I know what a credit card is, I just don't have one," instead of "what the heck is a credit card?"

It doesn't need to be in the text, it's immediately obvious to the reader.

[Damo]

It doesn't need to be in the text, it's immediately obvious to the reader.

See my above statement. The woman is unable to buy a cup of coffee, and thought the best way to figure out how a turnstile works would be to repeatedly walk into it. Sorry, but when we're being repeatedly beaten over the head with how she doesn't know how the world works, I don't think it's "obvious" that she knows what a credit card is. With this version of Diana Prince, any act of stupidity is possible.

[Eliseu Gouveia]

Okay, I thought about this some time ago, and came to this conclusion.

While the rest of the Amazons have had their third millenial birthday, Diana is still - what, late twenties, early thirties?

She grew up on that island with thousands of defacto aunties.

Diana is, still, the same little girl that they took turns changing her nappies and taught to tell the difference between a deer and a horsie.

I doubt one of them would be inclined to seduce - or to be receptive to seduction - to someone that's virtually family; a perpetual child in their eyes.

Even if one of them managed to leap that particular hurdle - she's royalty (yes, the monarcy has been abolished, but that's still present in their mind) and that's a pretty big class divide.

With both factors in play, it's nigh to impossible Diana got her end away before she left Themyscira.

Thoughts?


Hmmm, I never thought about it that way but you and BNL raise a pertinent point.

One of the problems of the Diana revamp was the way she was completely de-sexualised, I remember reading not a long time ago how Aphrodite, originaly the amazon´s matriarch figure was completely replaced by Athena.
This change may have raised more implications than we can see at first glance.

By choosing Aphrodite as their guiding light, Martson wanted to address the issues of love and relations between genders in particular and people in general.
With Athena (also known interestingly enough as the VIRGIN goddess), affairs of the heart and man-woman relations were completely buried, replaced by the conflicts with Ares and brawls with the giant-robot-of-the-week.

Now I love a good giant robot busting like any other guy but when compared with the initial Marston setup, I think the WW myth lost a great deal of depth right there.

[d newton]

Precisely. It's a matter of execution. We've had going on 2 decades of Diana not having any serious problems with the world of humans, even though she did spend a fair amount of time walking around outside. Then in the space of a few issues we're getting it all at once. Over in Superman she's going "Wow, a Cyber Cafe? I had no idea these things existed," with Lois Lane replying "Gee Wonder Woman, YOU SURE ARE OUT OF TOUCH, HAVE YOU BEEN LIVING IN A CAVE?" (I half expected her to start asking if Wonder Woman knew what Myspace was, or if she'd ever been to a NASCAR race...)

In Wonder Woman's own book we got a series of blunders, some of them just too much for me to buy (she doesn't know about credit cards?), leading up to her turning to face the reader, a tear rolling down her face as "Nemesis" spouts chicken soup and "The Apprehension of Wonder Woman" is subtly placed just above. And make sure every issue has at least one bit of conversation along the lines of "You're only human. WHOOPS, I forgot... YOU'RE NOT HUMAN!"

Enough already.

Show me where it says that in the text. All I see is a woman going "Credit card? Gas Pump? Turnstile? Cyber Cafe?"

When your character is depicted glaring at Turnstiles as if THAT will make them work, and can't even buy a cup of coffee on her own, I see no reason to assume she meant "Oh, I know what a credit card is, I just don't have one," instead of "what the heck is a credit card?"

The woman is unable to buy a cup of coffee, and thought the best way to figure out how a turnstile works would be to repeatedly walk into it. Sorry, but when we're being repeatedly beaten over the head with how she doesn't know how the world works, I don't think it's "obvious" that she knows what a credit card is. With this version of Diana Prince, any act of stupidity is possible.
Wow. I never knew that people would get annoyed about a fictional character trying to learn how to be human! :rolleyes:

[BnL]

Wow. I never knew that people would get annoyed about a fictional character trying to learn how to be human! :rolleyes:

I know, who'd have thought people would debate about comics on a comic book message board? Weird. Anyway, thanks for that, I really was just thinking how this thread was running short on condescending assholery.

[Adrian Tullberg]

Wow. I never knew that people would get annoyed about a fictional character trying to learn how to be human! :rolleyes:

It's more of a case of -

(a) Having successfully lived in the modern DCU for some time now, she should know all this crap already ...

and

(b) Even if she wasn't technically human, she can still empathise and understand the rest of humanity. I've owned dogs and have two cats, and despite not bing part of their species, I still know when they're hurt/happy/hungry/depressed/wary and the underlying causes of their state of mind.

[Cayman]

See my above statement. The woman is unable to buy a cup of coffee, and thought the best way to figure out how a turnstile works would be to repeatedly walk into it. Sorry, but when we're being repeatedly beaten over the head with how she doesn't know how the world works, I don't think it's "obvious" that she knows what a credit card is. With this version of Diana Prince, any act of stupidity is possible.

Fair enough, but I don't think the writer intends us to read those acts as stupidity but rather naivety about certain day-to-day things that us regular folk take for granted. I do take issue with the idea that Jodi is beating us over the head with that somewhat exaggerated naivety though - it was really only used in the first of the three issues published so far.

[d newton]

I know, who'd have thought people would debate about comics on a comic book message board? Weird. Anyway, thanks for that, I really was just thinking how this thread was running short on condescending assholery.
You must have missed the smiley after my sentence.

[Eliseu Gouveia]

I hope I don´t get flammed over this, but while her naiveté is downright idiotic considering her history, I do think there SHOULD be a slight out-of-touch/disconnect between Diana and the common mortal.
In our sphere of existence, we regular humans are subjected to experiences that she may not be familiar with even if she´s lived among us for so long.

Getting bored to tears waiting for a bus, B.O. in crammed subways, avoiding walking into dark alleys at night, the fear of those steps in the lonely parking lot at night, wondering if the pilot light was on when you left the house...
There are many things she may not "connect" very well and a good writer would know how to use them well too boost the character.

The turnstile episode, for instances.
It´s not a bad idea per se but the execution is just terrible.
A writer more familiar with Diana´s history would have used it with better effect without making her look like an idiot who just got off the boat.

[Adrian Tullberg]

I hope I don´t get flammed over this, but while her naiveté is downright idiotic considering her history, I do think there SHOULD be a slight out-of-touch/disconnect between Diana and the common mortal.
In our sphere of existence, we regular humans are subjected to experiences that she may not be familiar with even if she´s lived among us for so long.

Getting bored to tears waiting for a bus, B.O. in crammed subways, avoiding walking into dark alleys at night, the fear of those steps in the lonely parking lot at night, wondering if the pilot light was on when you left the house...
There are many things she may not "connect" very well and a good writer would know how to use them well too boost the character.

The turnstile episode, for instances.
It´s not a bad idea per se but the execution is just terrible.
A writer more familiar with Diana´s history would have used it with better effect without making her look like an idiot who just got off the boat.

Sarah shuffled around in her little space.

Just enough moisture falling from the sky to get you uncomfortably damp, but fell short of actually being classified as rain.

Just enough to keep her under the shelter, crammed up with everybody else. Everybody jealously keeping the space they had.

Ususal crowd of faces that she'd seen for years on the same bus line but never talked to.

And a new one. Tall, had to be six feet. Long glossy black hair and a perfect face.

Sarah snuck a look at her shoes. Flats. And expensive.

The new woman must have seen her looking, because she turned and smiled. "Hello."

Sounded normal - although she heard some kind of wierd way she said some parts of the word. Was that kind of an accent?

"Hi."

"Is the bus going to take long?"

Sarah leaned out and peered to her left, as if she could see the bus around the corner, then looked back at the newcomer, shrugging.

"'pends. If the traffic's bad ... and sometimes it does when it's raining ... could be late. Or later."

"You take the bus a lot?"

Sarah thought of her job in the publishing company filing and typing for the Queen Bitch of the Universe, and how it didn't pay enough for the abuse, let alone for an apartment and a car. "Yeah."

A flicker across her face made Sarah elaborate. "It's closer to my job than the train. And who'd take a car in the city?"

The new girl nodded. "It does get crowded on the freeway this time of day."

"Been a while since you had a bus ride?"

"First time."

Sarah blinked rapidly, processing this. "Oh? Oh ... guess you drive then ...?" Drive in a fancy car or get driven in a big black limo?

"A lot of the time ... I do a lot of walking."

She looked fit, under all the expensive clothes. Sarah tried to remember the time she had any energy before or after work when she could doo anything extra apart from cook dinner and collapse into her La-Z-Boy after eating.

"Then why are you ..."

"Somebody said I should try this. At least once."

A sound made Sarah turn, and saw the bus approach. The rest of the crowd under the shelter noticed and started to react.

A realisation made Sarah turn to the new girl. "You got a token?"

"Whu ... sorry, no."

"Exact change?"

"Not really."

Sarah felt in her pocket. Only a few for this week.

Spontaneously, she took one out and handed it to the woman who could definiately afford one. "Here. Otherwise they'll get really pissy."

The woman looked down at the token, then looked up, smiling. "Thank you."

"You gotta buy one next time ..."

The woman handed Sarah something.

Paper. A note.

A twenty dollar note.

"I ... I haven't got change on me ..."

"Keep it. Consider it capitalism in action."

Sarah gave her the first smile of the day.

The bus drew up, and the woman started filing in with the rest of the crowd.

For some reason, Sarah thought she looked familiar.

[Damo]

Wow. I never knew that people would get annoyed about a fictional character trying to learn how to be human! :rolleyes:

Correction: You never knew that people would get annoyed that a character previously shown not to be an idiot is being written as an idiot. Or annoyed that she's supposedly trying to learn how to be a normal human with a job that involves cyborgs, hologram masks, chasing after superheroes/villains, and use of jetpacks.

[Eliseu Gouveia]

Adrian, that was just awesome!

I absolutely loved the down-to-earth, intimate way you approached Sarah´s world and all its little details.
These are the things that make the reader empathise with the character and feel invited to share its existence.

And I especially loved seeing Diana through the eyes of a normal person.

Great story. :)

[diana_fan]

As to Diana's sexuality, I've seen her as being essentially omni-sexual (pan-sexual?) for some time. Men, women, aliens, whatever. Diana's full of love.

It's hard to imagine that she was never taught about sex on Themyscira. You would think that it would be considered an important part of life, of one's experiences. And I don't see the Amazons has having many hang-ups, really. Of course, it would be lesbian sex, and they probably wouldn't be interested in telling Di much about heterosexual sex, given their past experience with it.

I like Corrina's idea that Diana would just naturally see the woman in the room as the authority figure. That makes total sense, and as loving and caring as Diana is, I don't think it's a stretch to say that she might see women as being superior. It could actually be interesting to see her try and overcome her prejudice.

For instance, she might know, intellectually, that people have equal potential for good or evil, for accomplishment or failure, regardless of gender. But she might feel, emotionally, differently. There you have this disconnect internally, and it could bother Diana that she can't overcome this easily.

[diana_fan]

And yes, GREAT story at the bus stop. THAT is the sort of thing that we should have had in the book, as opposed to "Pump?"

"Consider it capitalism in action." Ha! I love it.

[Adrian Tullberg]

Thank you, I'll be here all week.

[Eliseu Gouveia]

I am probably going on a stretch here but I think folks are too fast to deem the amazons a lesbian nation.

It´s a same-sex society but it doesn´t automatically mean they have given up on men altogether.
I look at it like people in prison. the lack of a companion from the other gender makes them turn to other people of the same sex for some whatever, But the second they step out of jail, they´re back to looking for people from the other gender.

Amazons may be immortal but they´re still human at heart. There may be a couple lesbians in their society like there is in ours but there´s also countless heterosexual amazons who, for the lack of men, have turned out to other amazons to fill their emotional life.

That doesn´t mean they wouldn´t be hunting down men if they suddenly found themselves in the Patriarch world.

[diana_fan]

I think the Amazons are an interesting question, because their experience with men has been disasterous.

So, yes, they probably are generally heterosexual. But they have loved one and other for thousands of years, and their one experience with men was a complete horror.

OTOH, some may see men as just things to fuck and discard.

Anyhow, I'm not sure if they are a lesbian society, but I figure after thousands of years of it, they are pretty good at 'teh sechs'. ;)

[Eliseu Gouveia]

I think this is a matter of perspective.
We have to look at the amazons as women >i.e. people< first and immortals after.

If we turn the ship around, imagine that instead of women, the amazons were an all-male society.
A group of immortal men who were put together because they all shared the common experience of having been killed by women.
They spend thousands of years in an island with nothing other than other men to look at. Eventually, some start sleeping with each other just like in prison some >not all< inmates do.
These few inmates may grow very good at sleeping with each other after thousands of years of it but that doesn´t mean they would frown on women the moment they laid eyes on one.

I think that the man-hating amazon is sort of a stretch.
If you were brought to life after your wife had killed you, you wouldn´t automatically hate ALL women. You might hate THAT woman who killed you but not the entire gender.

[diana_fan]

I think that the man-hating amazon is sort of a stretch.
If you were brought to life after your wife had killed you, you wouldn´t automatically hate ALL women. You might hate THAT woman who killed you but not the entire gender.

I don't by any stretch think the Amazons hate men. But I think they deeply distrust men, and Patriarch's World.

And in many ways, a sense of superiority is justified in the case of the Amazons. They are immortal, they have vast experience and knowledge, are incredibly skilled in many areas.

[Eliseu Gouveia]

I don't by any stretch think the Amazons hate men. But I think they deeply distrust men, and Patriarch's World.

Very true.


And in many ways, a sense of superiority is justified in the case of the Amazons. They are immortal, they have vast experience and knowledge, are incredibly skilled in many areas.


Sorry, but I don´t agree with this part.
I think they are more advanced as a society, culturaly and scientificaly, but part of being a phylosofically peaceful society devoted to human advance is a sense of humility.
I don´t think the amazons consider themselves better-than-thou.
They may know more due to having lived longer, but their quest to enlighten mankind instead of walking all over it indicates that they share a sense of.... bond with us.

IMHO, an amazon is sort of like a big sister. She may know better than the baby brother but she doesn´t think she´s superior to him.

[diana_fan]

I see the Amazons as having just a little hubris. They look at Patriarch's World and see barbarism. They have direct communion with their gods. They probably feel like chosen people who live a better, more civilized life.

Now, that being said, Diana is the bridge between the two worlds, and she certainly has come to know that Patriarch's World (I mean, come on: look at the name alone! :) ) is more than just a cess pool of barbarism and rapists.

And Themyscira was, for a time, a sort of center for higher learning, open to all. So, there's that.

But heck, the Amazons need some sort of flaw. They are beautiul, strong, immortal, advanced, and they all have awesome hair. Hubris is as good flaw as any.

[Corrina]

I don't think the Amazon superiority is conscious, so much as it's unconscious. They're a peaceful society and used to respecting each other's opinions, I'd guess.

But there would be a very human, and very natural, bias against outsiders. You'd probably have to really prove to them that the way things are done in man's world is equal or better than the way things are done on Paradise Island.

I think if I were to write WW (which I wouldn't, and probably can't do it very well), I'd focus on that aspect of her character, on how she grew up, what unconscious assumptions she might have, and how her community and her lesson/morals in that community clash with the lessons/morals of the community in man's world. To me, that would be key to her character.

Plus, Diana is royalty. She looks the part, she *is* the part. She's pretty much going to naturally assume she's right about something because, well, she has the wisdom of the gods, right? Because she is Diana, she's not egotistical about it, but it's there.

I think Clark would quickly become her friend because his essential nature is kind, positive and yet forceful. He'd remind her of a what a male Amazon might be. But Bruce...Bruce would seem to embody everything she shouldn't trust about men. He always thinks he's right, he's secretive, he doesn't seem to value her opinion...and on his part, Bruce doesn't trust anyone to take care of themselves, not really, because look what happens when you do---they get killed, like his parents.

So Diana, who can take better care of herself than anyone, would confuse the hell out of him.

Which makes their interaction interesting, though I don't really know if it's a romantic dynamic.

But you could create a supporting character who might behave in this manner, and through the interaction between Diana and, say, a secretive loner with a heart of gold, you could have a lot of fun. Diana and Slam Bradley, for instance. (Not that I'm suggesting a liaison, but it sure would show a culture clash that might be very interesting.)

[Eliseu Gouveia]

If I were to pick a flaw for the amazons, it would be Fear.
Deep down inside, they fear what they left behind.
The savagery, the betrayal, the emprisonment.

They are an advanced society devoted to higher learning, so I see them as a naturaly kind, nurturing society that wants to teach mankind but at the same time is, deep down inside, affraid of it due to past experiences.

I´m sure many amazons love men but they have too many past bad experiences to trust them.

That´s the only defense I´ve managed to come up so far to explain a secluded, somewhat xenophobic civilization that is at the same time dedicated to human progress.

[Evan Waters]

Sure, but that's not how it happened in the comic. If she didn't know what a turnstile was, or how to use it, she would have watched to see how everyone else passed through in front of her. That's what any of us would do, because our brains are functioning normally.

Unless we're in a rush and not paying attention.

At most, she had a stupid moment. But everyone does. Brain farts and such.

[Cayman]

I spent years working at a helpdesk and was amazed how many people who were otherwise perfectly smart couldn't figure out how to find the power button to their computer or enter a login password. How many perfectly intelligent people have pulled at first when the door said push or vice-versa? How many times have you seen someone stare at the ATM in complete befuddlement?

Since Diana isn't still bumping into that turnstile two issues later, I think we can safely assume that she did either ask someone for help or observed someone going through the neighboring turnstile and then followed suit.

[BnL]

If I were to pick a flaw for the amazons, it would be Fear.
Deep down inside, they fear what they left behind.
The savagery, the betrayal, the emprisonment.

They are an advanced society devoted to higher learning, so I see them as a naturaly kind, nurturing society that wants to teach mankind but at the same time is, deep down inside, affraid of it due to past experiences.

I´m sure many amazons love men but they have too many past bad experiences to trust them.

That´s the only defense I´ve managed to come up so far to explain a secluded, somewhat xenophobic civilization that is at the same time dedicated to human progress.


I agree, I don't think the amazons necessarily have a superiority complex..or at least, they SHOULDN'T, in my opinion. They're aware of the fact that they were created to help others, and I don't think that's something they would forget. I think they're well aware of the fact that there is plenty they can learn from the outside world. They have to learn in order to teach. It's an exchange. If they weren't aware of that, I would think they were pretty dumb for a group of 3,000 year old philosophers. If I recall correctly, this was a lesson they learned during Perez's run, when they took down the barrier hiding the island from the outside world.

As for "flaws" the amazons could have, I think Rucka created a very interesting thing in the controversy over Diana's book. I mean, think about it. They're a culture that was originated in ancient Greece. Chances are, there are things about their culture that might make a lot of people really uncomfortable. For example, what kind of society to they live in? Democracy? Socialism? Communism? Some amalgamation of systems? I think even during the monarchy, their society didn't function like a traditional "monarchy." I would love to see amazon culture put under the microscope. We've really never seen that. All we really know is that they're an island of women wearing togas. I would love to see the heart of the island depicted as a small, but bustling, thriving city, landmarks and all. How do they produce and share food? Clothing? How do they entertain themselves? What kinds of art (paintings, sculptures, performance art, music, etc) do they make? How do they showcase/share it? Do they have a trade center/market place? Restaurants? What kinds of different housing do they have? What kinds of forums do they have to exchange ideas? What stuff do they cook up on Science Island (Isle of Learning?)? Are there amazons who live away from the main hub of the island, perhaps as the chief farmers of Themiscyra, on the other side of the island? I want to see all this stuff. How they live is a big part of who they (and by extension, Diana) really are.

[Corrina]

How they live is a big part of who they (and by extension, Diana) really are.

Bingo.

And, since we're shooting for the moon here, I want those elements worked into a really cool plot too. Are their crops dying? Do they have exchange students with the outside world?

Do the world's surfers demand to come surf near Paradise Island because it has really cool waves? (Hey, they go lots of places...)

Okay, better plots than that.

[diana_fan]

This is why I would love a second WW-oriented book, but it would be called Themyscira, and only feature Diana rarely. Make it Prestige format, and a quarterly. It could examine the Amazons in detail without needing Diana in every panel, and without having some huge event. Just day to day life on the island among Diana's mother and sisters.

It will NEVER happen. But I've wanted to see that Themyscira book for a long time.

[Corrina]

Oh, you'd need a good plot with conflict to sustain a Themyscira series. A Day in the Life idea would only go a few issues or so.

But I think you could find plots. Just not cosmic ones. Though...it does beg the question of what kind of conflict happens on an island called Paradise.

First thought that comes to mind is how Artemis' Amazons have integrated with Diana's Amazons. How do they keep the peace between them? Have the Amazons settled together or are they living separately?

Peter David did some good stuff with the two different types of Atlanteans in his Aquaman series. Something like that.

[diana_fan]

Oh, you'd need a good plot with conflict to sustain a Themyscira series. A Day in the Life idea would only go a few issues or so.


Oh I agree. What I really meant was that, for the most part, the only time we see the Amazons are when Diana is involved with something there, or they are being slaughtered by Darkseid or whomever.

And yes, were I writing the book (:)), Artemis would play a major role.

[Sabrinaset]

What I'd like to see is Wonder Woman calling all males "Sperm Banks". Meybe treating Green Lantern like a completely whipped towel boy, and calling Superman a bastard. Talk about quality characterization!

Well, I guess Gail could have Diana eating rats too.

[diana_fan]

What I'd like to see is Wonder Woman calling all males "Sperm Banks". Meybe treating Green Lantern like a completely whipped towel boy, and calling Superman a bastard. Talk about quality characterization!

Well, I guess Gail could have Diana eating rats too.

I actually added the "sperm bank" line to my sig over at Newsarama. :) I just had to. It was too awesome.

[Eliseu Gouveia]

I´ve always had a problem with the name "Paradise Island".
In my mind, I see Themiscyra as some sort of nexus where magic and reality meet, the corner betwwen hell and earth.

Living in such a place, it´s not hard to find the conflicts needed to keep a series going, it´s almost like Star Trek DS9. An idylic island at the gates of hell. The amazons could be continuously at war, battling hordes of demons from crossing into our world.

People need conflict to evolve, to grow.
No matter how good the goddesses built them, the amazons are not much different from us. In such a dreamy place they would stagnate without the stimulae to push further, to evolve.

There´s only so much walking in the beach at sunset you can do before your brain starts rotting.

[d newton]

You never knew that people would get annoyed that a character previously shown not to be an idiot is being written as an idiot.
Stop changing my comments. You haven't provided one example showing Wonder Woman as an idiot!

[Hybrid2]

Cover of Gail's first issue of Wonder Woman.

http://community.livejournal.com/scans_daily/3509968.html


Spoiler
not realy.thank good.
spoiler

[Eliseu Gouveia]

Stop changing my comments. You haven't provided one example showing Wonder Woman as an idiot!

Allow me.


http://www.etherlair.com/images/net/wwclunk.jpg

[d newton]

Just because she doesn't know how to use a turnstile doesn't make her an idiot!

[Corrina]

From that panel, she looks lost in thought, not an idiot.

Just my reaction.

Artwork is very nice.

[diana_fan]

From that panel, she looks lost in thought, not an idiot.

Just my reaction.

Artwork is very nice.

Drew has been doing a great job with the art.

If Picoult could manage to do one-eighth the job on the writing front, we'd be at barely readable.

[Cayman]

Artwork is very nice.

Yeah, I enjoy Drew Johnson's art more than Terry Dodson's. Hope he ends up on another book soon.

[Damo]

Stop changing my comments. You haven't provided one example showing Wonder Woman as an idiot!

I believe your comment a bit back was She needs the secret identity so that she can find out what humans do every day.

Her job has her taking orders from a Black Ops cyborg and working with a spy who happens to be the world's greatest master of disguises (and who uses holographic masks). Her job has had her being ordered to track down a world famous superheroine, escort a dangerous superhuman prisoner for the Teen Titans, and go after an ancient immortal witch. That last one had her using a jetpack and flying in an invisible plane Bruce loaned her.

So I'm going to kill two birds with one stone and say that her secret identity is a very bad one for trying to learn what normal humans do every day. And if she thinks otherwise? She's an idiot.

[stealthwise]

"How on earth does this thing work?"

Pretty fucking lame.

[d newton]

Her job has her taking orders from a Black Ops cyborg and working with a spy who happens to be the world's greatest master of disguises (and who uses holographic masks). Her job has had her being ordered to track down a world famous superheroine, escort a dangerous superhuman prisoner for the Teen Titans, and go after an ancient immortal witch. That last one had her using a jetpack and flying in an invisible plane Bruce loaned her.

So I'm going to kill two birds with one stone and say that her secret identity is a very bad one for trying to learn what normal humans do every day. And if she thinks otherwise? She's an idiot.
None of those examples make her an idiot.

[diana_fan]

"How on earth does this thing work?"

Pretty fucking lame.

Exactly. Picoult wanted to show that Diana was less than competent. But she chose ways of doing it that were demeaning to the character, and undermined twenty years' worth of stories.

I'll be honest and just come right out and say it: The psychotic man-hating uber-bitch Wonder Woman from All Star Batman and Robin #5 yesterday was a MUCH better portrayal of the character than anything I have seen in Vol. 3 (except maybe for Pfeifer's #5).

Would I want Diana portrayed that way in the DCU? NO. NO. NO. But jesus, at least she isn't an incompetent bumbling moron ditz airhead liar! And there is actually some validity to portraying a Diana new to Patriarch's World as a man-loathing uber-bitch. It's extreme, and it is exactly the opposite of the direction Perez went. But it isn't hard to imagine how a Princess from an island of women who are superior in many ways to normal humans would find herself disgusted by the "real world", and by the men in it.

Anyways, tangents aside, "How on Earth does this thing work?" and "Pump?" and "Credit card?" and "I don't think she speaks English." and all the rest from that issue made me want to hurl.

[Cayman]

Exactly. Picoult wanted to show that Diana was less than competent. But she chose ways of doing it that were demeaning to the character, and undermined twenty years' worth of stories.


I disagree. I don't think that was her motivation at all. She wanted to show that Diana wasn't used to living as a mundane human. Tasks we would take for granted are completely new to her as she hasn't needed to function in that way. This is a learning experience for the character.

[diana_fan]

I disagree. I don't think that was her motivation at all. She wanted to show that Diana wasn't used to living as a mundane human. Tasks we would take for granted are completely new to her as she hasn't needed to function in that way. This is a learning experience for the character.

Which, in turn, IGNORES TWENTY YEARS WORTH OF STORIES!

[Cayman]

Which, in turn, IGNORES TWENTY YEARS WORTH OF STORIES!

In which previous issue do we see Diana moving easily through public transportation?

[Typo Lad]

In which previous issue do we see Diana moving easily through public transportation?

She's familiar enough with society that it is quite reasonable for her to know that public transportation would not be free. Further, she should have powers of observation beyond that of a three year old.

[diana_fan]

In which previous issue do we see Diana moving easily through public transportation?

The point is this: during Messner-Loebs' run, she worked at Taco Whiz, and needed to struggle to pay rent. Heck, in Jimenez' run, she is hanging out at a bar, shotting pool with Lois Lane. And there are tons of other examples that show that Diana was not completely disconnected from reality.

Diana doesn't know the price of gasoline, but she both writes a book which addresses environmental issues and knows that a Hummer is very environmentally unsound?

I'm sorry, I don't buy it.

[Cayman]

She's familiar enough with society that it is quite reasonable for her to know that public transportation would not be free. Further, she should have powers of observation beyond that of a three year old.

So she should intuitively know that you have to have a card and insert it into a slot to make a turnstile turn, despite the fact that in other locations, turnstyles do spin freely?

Honestly, you guys are so hung up on like 3 or 4 pages of a comic that has since published two more issues and only has two more to go. If you've dropped the book, good, you've made the right choice for yourself. I don't know if Gail thinks the book is shit like you folks do; in the other thread it made it sound like she'd heard some positive feedback. But I love the current run and I will continue to enthuse about it.

[Cayman]

The point is this: during Messner-Loebs' run, she worked at Taco Whiz, and needed to struggle to pay rent. Heck, in Jimenez' run, she is hanging out at a bar, shotting pool with Lois Lane. And there are tons of other examples that show that Diana was not completely disconnected from reality.

Diana doesn't know the price of gasoline, but she both writes a book which addresses environmental issues and knows that a Hummer is very environmentally unsound?

I'm sorry, I don't buy it.

Taco Whiz? Why the hell would I want to read about freakin' Wonder Woman working at Taco Whiz. Jeez.

[diana_fan]

Taco Whiz? Why the hell would I want to read about freakin' Wonder Woman working at Taco Whiz. Jeez.

You don't have to read it. But don't act like Diana has been sitting in some tower somewhere for the last twenty years, like some Princess who hasn't had contact with the real world.

The fact is, she has lived in the real world, struggled with all sorts of problems, and even worked a minimum wage job in a fast food joint.

And those things, along with other stories, all point to Picoult's portrayal being against the evidence.

[hichaec]

For what it's worth? I grew up in a place without subways, and when I first encountered a turnstile I didn't know how it worked either - which almost got me arrested!

But then, I was 14 at the time.

I like the idea of a more down-to-Earth Diana and I like that Picoult's run has had some decent comedy. So while the writing is lacking sometimes, I generally like the book right now. I haven't read the Perez run on the title so I guess that'd would change my opinion on things...but I am not necessarily for an absolute, strict adherence to continuity anyway, so I kind of doubt it.

[Evan Waters]

Which, in turn, IGNORES TWENTY YEARS WORTH OF STORIES!

Which I'm sure I would care about more if I gave a shit about this kind of long-term "to write this character you must read every story ever published in which he/she appears" continuity.

Ever since they retconned out Maxwell Lord's redemptive arc I've just stopped caring.

[Damo]

None of those examples make her an idiot.

On the contrary, trying to learn what a normal human's life is like by being a superspy screams idiocy at sonic-boom inducing volume.

[diana_fan]

Which I'm sure I would care about more if I gave a shit about this kind of long-term "to write this character you must read every story ever published in which he/she appears" continuity.

Ever since they retconned out Maxwell Lord's redemptive arc I've just stopped caring.

Fine. But they choose to remember certain things, and not others. I don't think Picoult was prepared to do this job. I really don't. And I also don't think Matt Idelson helped her out much.

This should NEVER have been in-continuity. You don't take someone who has no experience writing comic books, and isn't really much of a fan of comic books, and say "Oh, why don't you write Wonder Woman!"

A mini, out-of-continuity? OK, maybe. But unlike people like Brad Meltzer or Kevin Smith, Jodi Picoult didn't grow up living and breathing comics. And even Smith wrote an indy title as preparation.

And I would still hate it, but it would have been better if they made clear what was going on with Diana's continuity. But they haven't. They were stuck with Heinberg, who was on his own little project. Now Picoult. It's been a total disaster.

[Night Swordsman]

Fine. But they choose to remember certain things, and not others. I don't think Picoult was prepared to do this job. I really don't. And I also don't think Matt Idelson helped her out much.

This should NEVER have been in-continuity. You don't take someone who has no experience writing comic books, and isn't really much of a fan of comic books, and say "Oh, why don't you write Wonder Woman!"

A mini, out-of-continuity? OK, maybe. But unlike people like Brad Meltzer or Kevin Smith, Jodi Picoult didn't grow up living and breathing comics. And even Smith wrote an indy title as preparation.

And I would still hate it, but it would have been better if they made clear what was going on with Diana's continuity. But they haven't. They were stuck with Heinberg, who was on his own little project. Now Picoult. It's been a total disaster.

Wrong. "It's been a total disaster..to Diana_Fan" is what you meant.
You have been hitting us with your viewpoints then making them all conclusive. Please remember that ALOT of people do NOT share your views on Jodi or Allan(Nor did i say that i agree or disagree with you...)but you are approaching hyperbole with your opinions.

[diana_fan]

Wrong. "It's been a total disaster..to Diana_Fan" is what you meant.
You have been hitting us with your viewpoints then making them all conclusive. Please remember that ALOT of people do NOT share your views on Jodi or Allan(Nor did i say that i agree or disagree with you...)but you are approaching hyperbole with your opinions.

You don't see the irony in your post, do you?

[Night Swordsman]

You don't see the irony in your post, do you?

Nope. I am not trying to bash people over the head with a opinion of Wonder-Woman's writers/creators as of late. I am merely stating and hoping you will take the hint that not everyone agrees with your opinions,and anytime anyone posts a view differently you come back and slam Jodi and Allan again. Keep a open mind,would you? I am NOT asking you to change your opinons ONE IOTA,but i am asking you to remember that they are YOUR opinions,and are NEITHER the opinions of others or the actual end of arguement you seem to be reaching for.

There is a fine line between diana_fan and diana_fanatic.

[diana_fan]

Nope. I am not trying to bash people over the head with a opinion of Wonder-Woman's writers/creators as of late. I am merely stating and hoping you will take the hint that not everyone agrees with your opinions,and anytime anyone posts a view differently you come back and slam Jodi and Allan again. Keep a open mind,would you? I am NOT asking you to change your opinons ONE IOTA,but i am asking you to remember that they are YOUR opinions,and are NEITHER the opinions of others or the actual end of arguement you seem to be reaching for.

There is a fine line between diana_fan and diana_fanatic.

OK, there's no real reason to get into this. But I'm just going to say this:

You stated an OPINION in your post, where you told me that my OPINION is just that, an OPINION.

Seriously, you don't see the problem with that? Not even a little?

Anyhow, I am not putting "IMO" at the end of every sentence I wirte. If you can't figure out what parts of my posts are opinions and what parts are facts, then maybe you shouldn't be criticizing my opinions.

[Eliseu Gouveia]

I have to confess I am starting to feel unconfortable with the Picould bashing.

As an artist I avoid criticizing fellow artists (glass roofs and such) and as a creator I probably should steer clear from these diatribes as well.

Why don´t we focus on what´s ahead instead of what´s behind?

After all, this is a thread dedicated to our hopes for the future, not what past regrets we´re harbouring.....

[Night Swordsman]

I have to confess I am starting to feel unconfortable with the Picould bashing.

As an artist I avoid criticizing fellow artists (glass roofs and such) and as a creator I probably should steer clear from these diatribes as well.

Why don´t we focus on what´s ahead instead of what´s behind?

After all, this is a thread dedicated to our hopes for the future, not what past regrets we´re harbouring.....

I applaud and support this opinion. Part of what i am trying to address to Diana_fan is the fact she keeps bashing over and over again these writers,and if i point out the fact that this is her opinion,and not a fact,she turns into major defensive mode as a attack was made upon HER,and then launches attacks back. This is NOT a fight,or a DEBATE,D_F,this was a REQUEST for you to realize what Eliseu already knew and got,was that constant critizism of Allan and Jodi are NOT going to do anything but elevate your stress level,especially when you do it for the umpteenth time and people ON THIS FORUMN do NOT agree with you. This is NOT a opinion. It IS a statement of fact. Not everyone here agrees with you. What was asked of you was a REQUEST,and rather than take it to heart,you chose to attack the person making the request rather than acknowledge what the request pertained.

We get it. You do not like Picoult and Heinberg. You have stated it multiple times. You do not like anything relating to Max Lord,and anytime someone says something about Max that is not how you precieve it,it drives you to post against it. Not asking you to change,but to stop beating on a dead horse.

Can we now do what Eliseu asked,and move ON?

[diana_fan]

I'm not going to debate with you about debate. At least not here. If you really feel the need to attack me more, feel free to PM me. I will respond.


As to where they can go with Diana, I think a lot of the ideas already stated are interesting ones.

But I absolutely need some Donna and Cassie appearances. Donna used to be Wonder Girl, and is very close to Diana. But how can we really believe that when Donna is almost never interacting with Diana?

And Cassie has been woefully absent, as well. As I said way back in the beginning of this thread, I think, if she is till gonna be Wonder Girl and wear the colors, they need to have Cassie and Diana interact.

Now, coming up in whatever is going on in Amazons Attack! will be some Cassie/Kara team up action. That is a step in the right direction. When Kara and Cassie went to where Themyscira was to mourn its passing in Supergirl #9 it was touching. They need to address both Cassie's loss of Conner, as well as Kara's feelings of abandonment.

Diana has Donna, Cassie, Kara now, the Amazons, her mother apparently again, Artemis, Io, ... tons of characters to play off of and have adventures with and interact intellectually and emotionally with.

This stuff needs to be addressed. I feel it is very important.

[Night Swordsman]

I'm not going to debate with you about debate. At least not here. If you really feel the need to attack me more, feel free to PM me. I will respond.

Wow. COMPLETELY missing the whole point and turning it into a matyr stance. I see now trying to reason with you on this will be only recognized by you as a attack,and not worth discussing any further.
Sigh.

At least you moved on with the rest of the post. You had some good thoughts there. Thanks for sharing them.

I do NOT know why they keep saving Donna Troy,as once she is brought back,no one DOES anything with her(at least Heinberg slightly TRIED...but it took HOW many weeks into 52 to show Donna as the new WW???). And i am sure we will get more Cassie/Kara interaction after Amazons Attack as both seem to be part of the new lineup of the Teen Titans.

[diana_fan]

Wow. COMPLETELY missing the whole point and turning it into a matyr stance. I see now trying to reason with you on this will be only recognized by you as a attack,and not worth discussing any further.
Sigh.

At least you moved on with the rest of the post. You had some good thoughts there. Thanks for sharing them.

I do NOT know why they keep saving Donna Troy,as once she is brought back,no one DOES anything with her(at least Heinberg slightly TRIED...but it took HOW many weeks into 52 to show Donna as the new WW???). And i am sure we will get more Cassie/Kara interaction after Amazons Attack as both seem to be part of the new lineup of the Teen Titans.

I would answer your question about how long it took Donna to show up in 52, but it would only generate another tirade.

Hopefully someone else who knows the story can give you the score on that particular tidbit.

[Night Swordsman]

I would answer your question about how long it took Donna to show up in 52, but it would only generate another tirade.

Hopefully someone else who knows the story can give you the score on that particular tidbit.

I bought all 52 issues,so i already know. The point was,and you once again missed,why bother keep killing off or depowering Donna or whatever and keep bringing her BACK if they do not PLAN on DOING anything with her? Countdown promises to have Donna as a main character involved,but so far very little has been addressed about her role(and 52 seriously letting me down,i do not want to get burned with another 52 part mini-series with a HIGHER cost to find out the awnser...). She is not in any ongoing books,she barely appears in Wonder Woman,and she is hardly ever in the Titans anymore. What is the use of a character that no one DOES anything with??

But let me ask you this...why do you feel that any opinions that do not match your own are a personal attack on you? Why do you feel any requests that ask you to move on from a certain point are attacks on you? Why do you feel you are in a debate when all that is asked are questions you choose not to give awnsers to?

[heystacy]

I have to confess I am starting to feel unconfortable with the Picould bashing.

As an artist I avoid criticizing fellow artists (glass roofs and such) and as a creator I probably should steer clear from these diatribes as well.

Why don´t we focus on what´s ahead instead of what´s behind?

After all, this is a thread dedicated to our hopes for the future, not what past regrets we´re harbouring.....

I agree. Also as a writer, I never want to be vicious in any remarks.

[diana_fan]

I bought all 52 issues,so i already know.

I meant as to the "Why?" not the issue number.

Oh hell, I will risk another tirade. The Dream Team planned on using Donna (and to some extent, Diana) extensively in 52. But once TW gave Heinberg the WW book, he declared that no one could use either Donna nor Diana, until he said it was ok, or he was done with his arc, or whatever.

This apparently did not go over well with the Dream Team. But they were stuck. Donna and Diana would have played a bigger role in 52 if it were not for Heinberg.

Now you can slam me for slamming Heinberg.

But let me ask you this...why do you feel that any opinions that do not match your own are a personal attack on you? Why do you feel any requests that ask you to move on from a certain point are attacks on you? Why do you feel you are in a debate when all that is asked are questions you choose not to give awnsers to?

You chose not to respond to me via PM, as I asked. You didn't respond to one single post I made in this thread, when it had to do with ideas for WW in the future.

I suggested that Diana have more cosmic adventures, and even related a dream I once had. Your response? Nada.

I taked about Diana's love life, and how I felt whether it was important or not. Your response? Nada.

I talked about the Amazons and their possible feelings of superiority, and your response? Nada.

You DO realize, right, that I am not only one criticizing the Vol 3 of WW? RIGHT?!

I have tried to look at what posters like Eliseu or Corrina have said, and thought about it, looked it over, and incorporated it. But that's because they are engaging in the discussion, not just attacking people.

You? You have jumped in at the dusk days of a thread (or at least on page 14) and decided to attack me, based on your view that my opinion is not worth the opinions of others. People made claims, and those claims were challenged. It is a message board. That's what happens.

You want to shape the debate in your own image, even though you aren't even taking part in it. We've had all sorts of amazing ideas in this thread. Some I personally agree with. And some I personally don't. But the point is we discussed it. And I learned things. And I was shown new ideas. Etc.

You have attacked me. That is undeniable. That is why you refer to me, instead of the ideas in this thread. You call me out, and then you say "Why do you see it as an attack?!"

Dude, I've been on-line since 1991. I am pretty sure I know when I am being attacked.

This could ALL have taken place in PM. But instead, you refused to deal with it where it more appropriately is handled, and you STILL are determined to play it out in this thread. WHY?! Why the hell not just PM me? Do you have some sort of vindication that you must accomplish in public or something?

All you needed to do was PM me. We could have discussed this out in PM, and let the thread be the thread. But no. You HAD to call me out, criticize me, call me a fanatic, attack me.

Do you feel better now? Do you? Because I really hope so.

[Night Swordsman]

I agree. Also as a writer, I never want to be vicious in any remarks.

That is a good point. I did not care alot of Heinbergs run on the book,but it was still entertaining and the artwork beautiful. I dropped the book after issue 4 from all the lateness and wanting save money and not connecting to the book. I have not read any of Picoults issues except for previews,and did not find them overly offensive or awful either. I just had no desire to jump back on(but may track down the back issues to be prepared for Gail's run on the book).

[heystacy]

That is a good point. I did not care alot of Heinbergs run on the book,but it was still entertaining and the artwork beautiful. I dropped the book after issue 4 from all the lateness and wanting save money and not connecting to the book. I have not read any of Picoults issues except for previews,and did not find them overly offensive or awful either. I just had no desire to jump back on(but may track down the back issues to be prepared for Gail's run on the book).

I read some of Heinberg's run. Like you, lateness ruined the occasion. SIDE NOTE: Doesn't his lateness remind of how Image comics used to be, back in the day.;)

Picoult was off the mark with some instances, but I decided to give her a reasonable chance. I hate that her work has to be tied to Amazons Attack, and would prefer her story be contained to one book. Still she's by no means trashing the character. Her story is entertaining.

[Night Swordsman]

I meant as to the "Why?" not the issue number.

Oh hell, I will risk another tirade. The Dream Team planned on using Donna (and to some extent, Diana) extensively in 52. But once TW gave Heinberg the WW book, he declared that no one could use either Donna nor Diana, until he said it was ok, or he was done with his arc, or whatever.

This apparently did not go over well with the Dream Team. But they were stuck. Donna and Diana would have played a bigger role in 52 if it were not for Heinberg.

Now you can slam me for slamming Heinberg.[


You chose not to respond to me via PM, as I asked. You didn't respond to one single post I made in this thread, when it had to do with ideas for WW in the future.

I suggested that Diana have more cosmic adventures, and even related a dream I once had. Your response? Nada.

I taked about Diana's love life, and how I felt whether it was important or not. Your response? Nada.

I talked about the Amazons and their possible feelings of superiority, and your response? Nada.

You DO realize, right, that I am not only one criticizing the Vol 3 of WW? RIGHT?!

I have tried to look at what posters like Eliseu or Corrina have said, and thought about it, looked it over, and incorporated it. But that's because they are engaging in the discussion, not just attacking people.

You? You have jumped in at the dusk days of a thread (or at least on page 14) and decided to attack me, based on your view that my opinion is not worth the opinions of others. People made claims, and those claims were challenged. It is a message board. That's what happens.

You want to shape the debate in your own image, even though you aren't even taking part in it. We've had all sorts of amazing ideas in this thread. Some I personally agree with. And some I personally don't. But the point is we discussed it. And I learned things. And I was shown new ideas. Etc.

You have attacked me. That is undeniable. That is why you refer to me, instead of the ideas in this thread. You call me out, and then you say "Why do you see it as an attack?!"

Dude, I've been on-line since 1991. I am pretty sure I know when I am being attacked.

This could ALL have taken place in PM. But instead, you refused to deal with it where it more appropriately is handled, and you STILL are determined to play it out in this thread. WHY?! Why the hell not just PM me? Do you have some sort of vindication that you must accomplish in public or something?

All you needed to do was PM me. We could have discussed this out in PM, and let the thread be the thread. But no. You HAD to call me out, criticize me, call me a fanatic, attack me.

Do you feel better now? Do you? Because I really hope so.

Actually i do. You really went to alot of extremes over this. Did it ever occur to you i had NO desire to PM you? I didn't,and that is why i did not do as you REQUESTED me to do,but i guess i was being TOLD to do,as by indication of your rant above. I had no wish to talk to you in a PM,and did not.

As for your info on the Heinberg situation,my honest opinion was,"Wow. Information that i did not know. That acutually AWNSERS my question.". You want me to insult you for awnsering my question? Why? It was insightful and made alot of sense. I refuse to do so.

As for your statements on Dianas cosmic adventures,YOUR dreams of her,her love life,and the Amazons,i did not realize they were addressed" Night Swordsman..how do you feel about...?".
I believe i have addressed my feelings about Diana and her love life before,i could care NOT A WIT about cosmic adventures with Diana,and the Amazons bore me to tears the way they are set up now in the DC Universe and wish it would change. If you wanted SOLELY my opinion....ask me. Instead..i was curious about WHAT others had to say about your comments and was looking forward to seeing what was said. Your ASSUMPTIONS once again are in trying to make this a debate(and i have to recognize that is what you have turned this into).
Giving me your pedigree(I've been on since '91,i have been on this post,you only on the 'dusk days',etc...) is supposed to make your remarks correct in any way? Let me not just say no,but HELL no. And i do not think you HAVE taken what others have said to heart. You keep jumping onto your anti-Heinberg/Picoult/Max Lord rants any time either of these subjects come up. We get it already. Seriously.
And as for attacking you? I wanted to converse with you,but you really can not converse with a brick wall,y'know?

And you can not PM me,i only allow that to my friends.

[Night Swordsman]

I read some of Heinberg's run. Like you, lateness ruined the occasion. SIDE NOTE: Doesn't his lateness remind of how Image comics used to be, back in the day.;)

Picoult was off the mark with some instances, but I decided to give her a reasonable chance. I hate that her work has to be tied to Amazons Attack, and would prefer her story be contained to one book. Still she's by no means trashing the character. Her story is entertaining.

Exactly. In the end of the day,its a comic book about fictional characters. I have no doubt i would be on some level entertained by either writer's issues of Wonder Woman. I have no "agenda" to the character. I just want to be entertained by good writing and good artwork. That's what i spend my money to get,and when i do not get it,that is when i stop buying. And i do agree with Picoult being stuck with Amazons Attack,a leftover from BEFORE Infinite Crisis. Sigh.

[heystacy]

Exactly. In the end of the day,its a comic book about fictional characters. I have no doubt i would be on some level entertained by either writer's issues of Wonder Woman. I have no "agenda" to the character. I just want to be entertained by good writing and good artwork. That's what i spend my money to get,and when i do not get it,that is when i stop buying. And i do agree with Picoult being stuck with Amazons Attack,a leftover from BEFORE Infinite Crisis. Sigh.


Oh, I understand. We all pay good money, and we demand our money's worth.

[Night Swordsman]

Oh, I understand. We all pay good maney, and we demand our money's worth.

Amen bro. The point is,looking at things with level minded view can be wonderful and useful,as you can see things that may never of occured to you otherwise. Having a opinion and a vision of how you want things can be great,but being respectful of others is also good as well. I even respect D_F's views,even when i do not agree with them. I am just tired of the bashing.

[heystacy]

Amen bro. The point is,looking at things with level minded view can be wonderful and useful,as you can see things that may never of occured to you otherwise. Having a opinion and a vision of how you want things can be great,but being respectful of others is also good as well. I even respect D_F's views,even when i do not agree with them. I am just tired of the bashing.

Word.

I love hearing contructive crtttiques, and likewise I should give them as well.

[d newton]

On the contrary, trying to learn what a normal human's life is like by being a superspy screams idiocy at sonic-boom inducing volume.
Trying to find out how a turnstile works doesn't make a fictional superspy an idiot! :mad:

[Corrina]

I haven't used a subway much since the Metrocards came out. I still look around for tokens.

To me, I saw someone distracted and if she'd used tokens before and saw no one using them, she could have easily missed the swipe.

Whether it makes Diana an idiot is a matter of opinion, I think, as the scene in context doesn't have to be interpreted as "Diana is an idiot." It's open to opinions on either side.

She could have gone undercover, btw, as a secret agent to find out not how the normal person works but how humans react to super-human threats, thus gaining more information about governments view her and those like her.

That's probably not in the story, though.

[heystacy]

Because I felt like it, I made up a silly song about Wonder Woman. :p

Wonder Woman Is a Moron

Wonder Woman is a moron
It took her four hours to put her costume on
She believed Clark Kent was “Hercules’ son”
Any nerd can tell you, he came from Krypton.

She told Donna, “My tiara makes me look fat?”
Donna cried and said, “I think my sister’s on crack.”

She lost her invisible jet, yet again
She decided to steal a car from Batman
She didn’t know how to put the gas in
So she flew the car back to Gotham.

Wonder Woman is a moron
She thought the Incredible Hulk was “one ugly Amazon.”
Circe made her breakfast once
She ate it all and asked her “what’s for lunch.”
Circe asked, “Are you Winnie the Pooh?”
Diana said, “She doesn’t have a clue.”

[Night Swordsman]

Because I felt like it, I made up a silly song about Wonder Woman. :p

Wonder Woman Is a Moron

Wonder Woman is a moron
It took her four hours to put her costume on
She believed Clark Kent was “Hercules’ son”
Any nerd can tell you, he came from Krypton.

She told Donna, “My tiara makes me look fat?”
Donna cried and said, “I think my sister’s on crack.”

She lost her invisible jet, yet again
She decided to steal a car from Batman
She didn’t know how to put the gas in
So she flew the car back to Gotham.

Wonder Woman is a moron
She thought the Incredible Hulk was “one ugly Amazon.”
Circe made her breakfast once
She ate it all and asked her “what’s for lunch.”
Circe asked, “Are you Winnie the Pooh?”
Diana said, “She doesn’t have a clue.”

Bored AND Hyper,i see. No more Latte's till late morning,Stacy.

[heystacy]

Bored AND Hyper,i see. No more Latte's till late morning,Stacy.

I'm supposed to be working on fiction, but I love being silly, in the moment. It's all in the spirit of fun. No Wonder Women were harmed in this song. :p

[Night Swordsman]

I'm supposed to be working on fiction, but I love being silly, in the moment. It's all in the spirit of fun. No Wonder Women were harmed in this song. :p

ROFLMAO. Yes,i believe that. That is Gail's job anyway.

[heystacy]

ROFLMAO. Yes,i believe that. That is Gail's job anyway.

Well, that's true. lol

[Night Swordsman]

Well, that's true. lol

Ok now..get back to work. Or i will find a song to sing. Remember,i DID Celine AND the Ewoks.

After that,i really will get nasty...(and NO,i will not do Janet for you)

[heystacy]

Ok now..get back to work. Or i will find a song to sing. Remember,i DID Celine AND the Ewoks.

After that,i really will get nasty...(and NO,i will not do Janet for you)

Dammit. Give me Janet! lol

[Larry Dixon]

Given she's immortal.....

And that the Amazons don't have any men around....

It seems to me that Diana would at least be bisexual or certainly open to it. And that she probably would have had at least one female lover among the Amazons. They obviously are not a chaste society.

I hestitate to go there, because of the fanboy excitement over lesbians, which is far out of all proportion, but it seems to me that bisexuality suits her background.

Not that I'm suggesting a lesbian lover, necessarily, but one of the small differences in Diana versus the rest of the humanity is probably her unconscious but deep feeling that women are utterly equal, and quite possibly superior. Think about it. She's grown up in the only society run completely by women. She's been in man's world a while but she's still going to automatically look at the women in the room as the authority figures, not the men. It's ingrained. And it's a big difference between her and the rest of the JLA. She must find it odd that Dinah, with her fighting skills plus her super-power, has had to struggle for respect.

And she must find it really, truly odd when people treat her as lesser because she's a woman. And Diana would pick up on all those unconscious signals given out by a society that is still, for the most part, run by men.

All of this is very, very smart.

Good thinking.

[Larry Dixon]

That's also a possible scenario, and a good point about the royalty factor.

Though that does raise the question about why Diana wasn't curious about sex when she first showed up in man's world. If the Amazons were indulging and she'd been left out...well, hey....what is this she's been missing? Or I could be projecting here, because I would be damn curious.

But, depending on how the writer saw the background, it could go either way. Still, it's an issue that really hasn't been addressed, and it really is something that could be key to her character, one way or another.

But I would really like to see more of her unconscious preference that women in general are the authority figures. Sure, she'd be used to men by now but it wouldn't quite be the same thing as for a women who grew up in our society.

A famous Greek comedy revolved around someone trying to get back a dildo they'd loaned out. That brings to mind a wholly unsafe-at-any-speed storyline between Wonder Woman and Big Barda, involving Barda's Power Rod.

[Typo Lad]

You know what I don't want to see in Gail's Wonder Woman?

Wonder Woman refering to men as sperm banks, having a running commentary about how men suck, then shoving her tongue down Superman's throat and storming out.

Sheeeesh.

[Corrina]

A famous Greek comedy revolved around someone trying to get back a dildo they'd loaned out. That brings to mind a wholly unsafe-at-any-speed storyline between Wonder Woman and Big Barda, involving Barda's Power Rod.

Brings a whole new meeting to the Mighty Mega Rod.

Thanks for the kind words, Larry.

[Cayman]

You know what I don't want to see in Gail's Wonder Woman?

Wonder Woman refering to men as sperm banks, having a running commentary about how men suck, then shoving her tongue down Superman's throat and storming out.

Sheeeesh.

Well I certainly wouldn't want to see it in the mainstream Wonder Woman book, but for one issue of The Goddamn Batman, it was hilarious.

[diana_fan]

Well I certainly wouldn't want to see it in the mainstream Wonder Woman book, but for one issue of The Goddamn Batman, it was hilarious.

Agreed. (See? We agree on some stuff! :) )

Psychotic man-hating uber-bitch Diana was a hoot. As long as it is kept to the ASBR universe, it's hilarious.

In a sense, it's just an extreme expression of a Princess from an paradise-like island who comes to Patriarch's World. Except that instead of reacting with a little naivetee and good intentions (Perez), she reacts with revulsion and hatred (Miller).

[Sabrinaset]

I think I'd like to see YoGo getting shot. Or at least Adrian Paul.

[Night Swordsman]

I think I'd like to see YoGo getting shot. Or at least Adrian Paul.

YoGo and Lester will be proud of your choices,i think. :)

[Cayman]

I would like to see Jin Si and Ghost Lion from the Hypotheticals in Wonder Woman. I don't recall Jin Si and Diana battling in the JLA Classified arc.

The rest of the Hypotheticals were cool enough, but those two I found very interesting.

[Larry Dixon]

Bingo.

And, since we're shooting for the moon here, I want those elements worked into a really cool plot too. Are their crops dying? Do they have exchange students with the outside world?

Do the world's surfers demand to come surf near Paradise Island because it has really cool waves? (Hey, they go lots of places...)

Okay, better plots than that.

Corrina, you are awesome. I just want that to be well-known.

[Cayman]

A few months ago, a JSA Classified issue had Icemaiden flayed alive and now her skinless body is apparently being held in stasis by Dr. Mid-Nite. I would like Wonder Woman to offer the purple healing ray to help Icemaiden. I don't care if the purple healing ray has never been shown to be able to do this; I'd happily suspend my disbelief for this horrible icky thing to be resolved.

[Gilda Dent]

Stuff I want to see in Gail's Wonder Woman run:

bionic ninjas
a Wonder Woman/Wonder Girl/Wonder Tot team up
Wolverine, 'cause he can never be in too many books
an entire issue set inside the Paradise Island public baths
bionic pirates
Two Face's ex-wife
a giant squirrel rapping Wordsworth
Wonder Ant Woman
an entire issue written with only 23 different words
bionic zombies
a Micronesian villain; they seem to be underrepresented these days
another revision to Donna Troy's origin
Diana taking piano lessons
bionic demons
Wonder Goliath Woman
back up stories featuring Bulletgirl
dialog written as tongue twisters, ala Fox in Sox
bionic alien xenomorphs
semicolons

[Cayman]

semicolons

Impossible. Superboy Prime punched them out of existence.

[Sabrinaset]

I wanna see an Australian girl working at some office job. Make her a recent graduate of a Uni.

Maybe some Asian girl walking on a park sidewalk completely surrounded by pigeons. That would be cool. The thing is, this woman is secretly running an underground lab filled with chemicals. Running near the lab is some mag-ma. I theorize that this Asian scientist wants to blow up the world because of an unrequited crush on some OTHER Asian woman who used to be a teacher. Something like that.

You know ... A woman covered in ferrets wouldn't be half-bad.

Another idea for a villain might be a cosmic-powered soccer mom. I like it.

Maybe some woman with a British accent. She might be a cartoonist with a cartoon diary or something. Maybe name her Karen Ellll ... something or other.

[Cayman]

I wanna see an Australian girl working at some office job. Make her a recent graduate of a Uni.

Maybe some Asian girl walking on a park sidewalk completely surrounded by pigeons. That would be cool. The thing is, this woman is secretly running an underground lab filled with chemicals. Running near the lab is some mag-ma. I theorize that this Asian scientist wants to blow up the world because of an unrequited crush on some OTHER Asian woman who used to be a teacher. Something like that.

You know ... A woman covered in ferrets wouldn't be half-bad.

Another idea for a villain might be a cosmic-powered soccer mom. I like it.

Maybe some woman with a British accent. She might be a cartoonist with a cartoon diary or something. Maybe name her Karen Ellll ... something or other.

I'm not sure that many women are allowed in one comic book! :eek:

Couldn't one of them actually be a shape-changing robot?

[Gothos]

I posted the following on Comicon to see if it generated any debate on the topic of re-doing WW. Unfortunately, it only garnered 6 posts.

Good luck with WW anyway, Gail.

"posted 06-12-2007 03:48 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
While waiting to see what Gail Simone comes up with on WONDER WOMAN, I've been thinking as to what, if anything, could possibly make her a successful character again. And the answer is-- character; the sense that her character has more nuance than just being a goody-good all the time.

I know that there's a school of thought that claims that all superheroes were unbearably goody-good before Lee and Kirby did FF. But what Lee and Kirby did was more a transformation of plotting than of character.

Like anyone else familiar with the Silver Age, I've read my fair share of tedious, nuance-free stories of Superman and Batman of that era. But no matter how wild or escapist the stories were, S and B always had good supporting-casts that gave the sense that the main heroes were interesting characters, because of the way the support-cast reacted to them. (And in some cases, the main heroes could be interesting because they had moments of humanity, including a certain amount of "dickishness" on Superman's part.)

Wonder Woman, however, never accrued a support-cast during the Silver Age, and from then on, nobody's attempts to give her one have taken hold. Perez and his collaborators came closest because they were essentially re-introducing WW in the context of a "culture ambassador," but the Kapatelis family and the new version of Etta Candy have not stuck.

I don't know if Simone can come up with a decent support-cast for Wonder Woman. Her work on BIRDS OF PREY certainly suggests that she can potentially pull it off. But even if she does, something has to happen with WW as well.

I don't want to say that she has to be "edgy," like goddamn Wolverine, but sometimes she's written as such as a plaster saint that next to her Superman looks as angst-y as a Wolfman Teen Titan.

I dunno what the solution is.

Hope Simone finds one. "

[shrike]

Three words:

Wondy. Kicking. Ass.

[diana_fan]

Three words:

Wondy. Kicking. Ass.

Absolutely. With a big honkin' ax.

Against dinos. On a dino planet. Where they are smart and evil. Yeah, that's the ticket. :)

[Eliseu Gouveia]

Stuff I want to see in Gail's Wonder Woman run:

bionic ninjas
a Wonder Woman/Wonder Girl/Wonder Tot team up
Wolverine, 'cause he can never be in too many books
an entire issue set inside the Paradise Island public baths
bionic pirates
Two Face's ex-wife
a giant squirrel rapping Wordsworth
Wonder Ant Woman
an entire issue written with only 23 different words
bionic zombies
a Micronesian villain; they seem to be underrepresented these days
another revision to Donna Troy's origin
Diana taking piano lessons
bionic demons
Wonder Goliath Woman
back up stories featuring Bulletgirl
dialog written as tongue twisters, ala Fox in Sox
bionic alien xenomorphs
semicolons


What, no bionic mummies? :D

[heystacy]

There should be more Wonder Pets. ;)

[Adrian Tullberg]

There should be more Wonder Pets. ;)

Superman hovered near the head of the Tyranasaurus Rex.

What the hell was that stuck in it's teeth, and to be honest, did he really want to know?

He looked at Diana, who was scratching the collared dinosaur behind it's head. "Given him a name?"

Diana had taken a long steel cable, clipping it to the creature's collar. "Dennis."

"Why Dennis?"

"He looks like a Dennis." Diana flew ahead, leading the dinosaur forward.

Superman decided that if Diana ever wanted him to clean up after her new pet, he'd have an appointment in another country ...