Objective Storytelling

[Joe Acro]

I don't know what are considered the "main" X-Men titles. But I'm going to just comment on the ones with "X-Men" in the title.

It seems to me that the current method of telling X-Men stories is to use third-person objective. We see the detail. We see the spoken words. But we lack the insight into character's minds, save through body language or facial expression. I only read Uncanny and Astonishing of the "X-Men" titles, both of which follow this pattern, and I have seen previews for X-Men and New X-Men, which seem to do the same. Ultimate X-Men also seems to be written in this style.

Is using objective storytelling indeed the current norm? If so, then why?

[DrDoomX]

I don't know what are considered the "main" X-Men titles. But I'm going to just comment on the ones with "X-Men" in the title.

It seems to me that the current method of telling X-Men stories is to use third-person objective. We see the detail. We see the spoken words. But we lack the insight into character's minds, save through body language or facial expression. I only read Uncanny and Astonishing of the "X-Men" titles, both of which follow this pattern, and I have seen previews for X-Men and New X-Men, which seem to do the same. Ultimate X-Men also seems to be written in this style.

Is using objective storytelling indeed the current norm? If so, then why?

We have not seen thought bubbles for a while in the Xbooks...one thing particularly interesting about that is that this has been a while since the Quesada regime. But if you want to see the thought bubbles, its interesting that Bendis is bringing them back in Mighty Avengers. He uses them quite a bit in that book, but they seem quite absent in his other stuff...

I like the new way of tellings stories...and though I love the first Claremont run there are pieces of it, particularly in the early part of his run that is too wordy. Too many captions and thought bubbles to stress the obvious...but he did use to his advantages.

I just finished rereading Uncanny X-Men 129-134, and the thought bubbles use there are great none the less. One thought bubble that is interesting in showing Collossus stressing over wearing a suit that is worth more money then what his father makes on their farm in a year. And little insights like that are great. I think the new way, with a reasonable amount of thought bubbles as shown in Might Avengers works...

[The Fury]

Thought bubbles might not be part of the X-men books like they used to but instead it seems that writers are going more for storytelling via a character.

Claremont is a good example, he has characters inner monolog appear as boxes on page, helping not only tell the story but give a certain aspect to the characters that we lose when no thought bubbles or boxes appear.

Bendis by the looks of it is trying to bring thought bubbles back to Marvel comics as seen in Mighty Avengers

[DrDoomX]

Thought bubbles might not be part of the X-men books like they used to but instead it seems that writers are going more for storytelling via a character.

Claremont is a good example, he has characters inner monolog appear as boxes on page, helping not only tell the story but give a certain aspect to the characters that we lose when no thought bubbles or boxes appear.

Bendis by the looks of it is trying to bring thought bubbles back to Marvel comics as seen in Mighty Avengers


Agreed but I think that sometimes even the Thought bubbles can be used excessively..Yes I love Claremonts run on Uncanny, but sometimes he would have the characters do..."Trapped, arm stuck, must escape to get out or I will get Vaporized." That was kind of annoying, but that was pretty much common of comics of the time, and if thought bubbles are brought back in time, I doubt we will see that type of thought...

[Hi-Fi]

I don't know what are considered the "main" X-Men titles. But I'm going to just comment on the ones with "X-Men" in the title.

It seems to me that the current method of telling X-Men stories is to use third-person objective. We see the detail. We see the spoken words. But we lack the insight into character's minds, save through body language or facial expression. I only read Uncanny and Astonishing of the "X-Men" titles, both of which follow this pattern, and I have seen previews for X-Men and New X-Men, which seem to do the same. Ultimate X-Men also seems to be written in this style.

Is using objective storytelling indeed the current norm? If so, then why?
I think the question we should actually be asking here is... why the f*ck aren't you reading X-Men?

[tetragene]

I wish writers would release an issue every so often that's told completely from one-character's perspective. 3rd person perspective works best most of the time, but I think 1st p.p. can be really interesting if executed correctly. Plus it gives a lot of insight into that particular character--how they feel, think, and their "speech/voice"

[Brian M.]

I think the question we should actually be asking here is... why the f*ck aren't you reading X-Men?

Well not everyone loves it like you my friend.

[claimtosubclaim]

Whedon actually used 1st person thought captions several times during his run, although moreso in the first year than the second.

One thing that I won't miss about 1st person storytelling is that characters won't introduce themselves like this every issue: My name is Bobby Drake- the Iceman- and I am an X-Man. I'm cool and refreshing. 2 pages later:
My name is Scott Summers, leader of the X-Men.

Just too unrealistic of a literary device.

[Deadpooligan]

I like Bendis' use of speech bubbles as (indirect?) comic relief from ping-pong dialogue in Mighty Avengers.

Exposition bubbles (like Claremont/Byrne era X-Men) seem too wordy, especially if you've already had major character introspection in an arc's issue. Too much repetition, as well as not enough faith in the reader to make their own judgements of what a character is probably considering, kind of defeats the purpose IMO.

Maybe I'm just too much of a modern reader, but I think there'd be reasonable assumption that a few of the X-Men would react the same to a situation, while also contrasting with others. (Like how say, Wolverine's VS Cyclops's or Storm's reaction to a situation).

I feel there's a lot of exposition in the plots themselves, and are oft better represented by thought boxes.

[Zombienorthstar]

I'd disagree, latley what we've had if anything is more character based books. I'd say that many the X-Books are focalised around one character with others serving almost in supporting roles

X-Men- Rogue
Astonishing- Shadowcat
Uncanny- Xavier/Vulcan
X-Factor- Madrox.

I'm not saying this is a bad thing, just a trend i have noticed.

[claimtosubclaim]

I'd disagree, latley what we've had if anything is more character based books. I'd say that many the X-Books are focalised around one character with others serving almost in supporting roles

X-Men- Rogue
Astonishing- Shadowcat
Uncanny- Xavier/Vulcan
X-Factor- Madrox.

I'm not saying this is a bad thing, just a trend i have noticed.

X-Men: The last two arcs have been more of an ensemble than anything, and if you re-read the SuperNovas arc, Rogue doesn't have more focus than the other characters after #190. To say that Rogue is the central focus is like saying that Jack is the central character on Lost. Hell, Rogue's barely been seen on-panel in the last 4 issues.

X-Factor: Madrox, Siryn and Monet are all getting equal screen time right now, although in many issues, he gets the majority. X-Factor is an offshoot of the Madrox mini after all.

Uncanny: up until the last 2 issues, Vulcan has only appeared in 3 of the 11 issues out. If anything, Rachel is getting the most panel time out of the entire team.

[Zombienorthstar]

X-Men: The last two arcs have been more of an ensemble than anything, and if you re-read the SuperNovas arc, Rogue doesn't have more focus than the other characters after #190. To say that Rogue is the central focus is like saying that Jack is the central character on Lost. Hell, Rogue's barely been seen on-panel in the last 4 issues.

X-Factor: Madrox, Siryn and Monet are all getting equal screen time right now, although in many issues, he gets the majority. X-Factor is an offshoot of the Madrox mini after all.

Uncanny: up until the last 2 issues, Vulcan has only appeared in 3 of the 11 issues out. If anything, Rachel is getting the most panel time out of the entire team.


I said 'focalised' its a very different thing.

[claimtosubclaim]

I said 'focalised' its a very different thing.

It's the same thing as saying that issues are character-centric, to which I gave examples why I didn't think they were. I don't see X-Men as being focalised around Rogue. I understand that things like her being the team leader with several one-liners in SuperNovas & Pan's inspiration in Primary Infection make it seem like things are revolving around her, but I don't think the rest of the cast has been relegated to supporting roles. Most of the focus has been on establishing the voices of each character and how they interact with each other. Primary Infection was very much an ensemble story, and Condition Critical is trickling out plot points like the Bobby/Raven relationship, Mummadrai in Regan's head, and why Cable is currently on an X-Men strike team.

In the same way, I feel that the focus of Uncanny has been equally divided between Rachel, Vulcan and Xavier.

X-Factor has had an ensemble feel, and almost never seems character-centric aside from maybe 2 issues.

[UncannyAsianGirl]

It does seem to be the general trend, but what would you prefer? Do you want every issue or the occassional issue to be narrated from a single character's point of view (which would be hard with a very large cast, since the writer would have to get to everyone else eventually, and if the writer's only allowed a certain number of issues or is on a book for a limited amount of time), or do you want narration boxes from various characters interspersed throughout the issue (I think this would come off as being too disjointed) or from the writer him/herself explaining things as the story progresses (which could be good if used in moderation)? Also, does this current trend bother you so much that you aren't able to enjoy the X-titles as much as you were able to before?

I think the exception to the current objective narration trend in the X-Books has been Cable & Deadpool. Since there's only 2 main characters and they're the main focus, it's easy to have issues entirely from their point of view. Ya gotta love it when Wade continually breaks the 4th wall. :D The next issue of C&DP is almost entirely from Cable's point of view. There's also Wolverine and Wolverine Origins but... yea, no more needs to be said there. :o

In X-Men #195 though, Carey did have Karima narrate the events via a transmission to Cable, but her being pragmatic and all, it was mostly situational stuff, and not a really big look into her character. With her being an Omega Sentinel though, it's pretty much expected. :p

Carey often utilizes first-person narration in both Ultimate Vision and Crossing Midnight, and I'd really like to see it in Adjectiveless, to witness things happen from anyone on Rogue's team's point of view. Maybe it's the sheer size of the cast that prevents him from doing so? There's a lot of perspectives to play around with here, perhaps too many. But can you imagine an issue narrated by Lady M, or Mystique, or Rogue; heck, even by Sabretooth? :eek:

I think he'll have ample opportunity to have an issue told from a single character's perspective when the next arc hits, since most of the team's going to be decimated, it could be from the POV of a character that remains relatively unscathed, I'm thinking either Bobby or Sam.

For Astonishing, Wolverine already has his own book, so we don't need to hear more from him, I think it'd be fun to see things from Hisako's perspective, since she's the newbie. That is, if she makes it back from the Breakworld alive... I wouldn't mind an issue narrated by Beast or Emma either.

I don't think I can say the same for Uncanny though, the only character I really, really like from that team is Kurt, but with Xavier now re-powered and walking, it looks like Kurt be taking a backseat again, which is disappointing since he didn't do much as leader for the last 12 issues... I'm sure Brubaker's well-versed in telling stories that are not told objectively, since he's been on solo titles like Daredevil and Captain America, among other things.

[DrDoomX]

It does seem to be the general trend, but what would you prefer? Do you want every issue or the occassional issue to be narrated from a single character's point of view (which would be hard with a very large cast, since the writer would have to get to everyone else eventually, and if the writer's only allowed a certain number of issues or is on a book for a limited amount of time), or do you want narration boxes from various characters interspersed throughout the issue (I think this would come off as being too disjointed) or from the writer him/herself explaining things as the story progresses (which could be good if used in moderation)? Also, does this current trend bother you so much that you aren't able to enjoy the X-titles as much as you were able to before?

I think the exception to the current objective narration trend in the X-Books has been Cable & Deadpool. Since there's only 2 main characters and they're the main focus, it's easy to have issues entirely from their point of view. Ya gotta love it when Wade continually breaks the 4th wall. :D The next issue of C&DP is almost entirely from Cable's point of view. There's also Wolverine and Wolverine Origins but... yea, no more needs to be said there. :o

In X-Men #195 though, Carey did have Karima narrate the events via a transmission to Cable, but her being pragmatic and all, it was mostly situational stuff, and not a really big look into her character. With her being an Omega Sentinel though, it's pretty much expected. :p

Carey often utilizes first-person narration in both Ultimate Vision and Crossing Midnight, and I'd really like to see it in Adjectiveless, to witness things happen from anyone on Rogue's team's point of view. Maybe it's the sheer size of the cast that prevents him from doing so? There's a lot of perspectives to play around with here, perhaps too many. But can you imagine an issue narrated by Lady M, or Mystique, or Rogue; heck, even by Sabretooth? :eek:

I think he'll have ample opportunity to have an issue told from a single character's perspective when the next arc hits, since most of the team's going to be decimated, it could be from the POV of a character that remains relatively unscathed, I'm thinking either Bobby or Sam.

For Astonishing, Wolverine already has his own book, so we don't need to hear more from him, I think it'd be fun to see things from Hisako's perspective, since she's the newbie. That is, if she makes it back from the Breakworld alive... I wouldn't mind an issue narrated by Beast or Emma either.

I don't think I can say the same for Uncanny though, the only character I really, really like from that team is Kurt, but with Xavier now re-powered and walking, it looks like Kurt be taking a backseat again, which is disappointing since he didn't do much as leader for the last 12 issues... I'm sure Brubaker's well-versed in telling stories that are not told objectively, since he's been on solo titles like Daredevil and Captain America, among other things.

I agree....Single POV books are not out of the norm. Think of issues like Uncanny 203, which was pretty much a Nightcrawler issue for the most part. Or Uncanny 182 which was a Rogue issue, or Uncanny 198 which focused on Storm. I would like to see more of those issues cause those were some of the great issues of uncanny.

203 was great cause we saw Nightcrawler really get into his Swashbuckling form in that issue when he took on Arcade on his own.

[Joe Acro]

I think the question we should actually be asking here is... why the f*ck aren't you reading X-Men?
I have my reasons.;)

I'm not sure if I would prefer the way things are now, the use of thought bubbles, or the multi-character narration.

Bendis seems to be doing an adequate job of using thought bubbles in Mighty Avengers and Meltzer uses the multi-character thought/narration in Justice League of America. Claremont has used individual narration, such as the Psylocke spotlighting in Exiles.

I'm not sure which method I prefer. They all work in regards to telling the story the writer feels the need to tell, but I was just noting that I've recently noticed that the X-Books specifically seem to be sticking to one style. It is true that Cable & Deadpool consistently goes in a different direction, but that's the nature of the book.

Maybe it's just coincidence that the X-Men books, at least, have shifted to the same type at the same time.

[Schuimend Mormel]

Thought bubbles are a part of the medium, right? Why are so many people negative about them? Aren't they of the same basic nature as speech bubbles and whisper bubbles? It's not like they're that much of a distraction. I personally find sound effects more annoying. SKRAKK! WOOSH! SNIKT!

I must admit, though, that, while I also collect back issues, I didn't notice at all that the thought bubbles were gone in the new books. I was surprised about all the fuss people made when Mighty Avengers came out!

This third person perspective, with body language instead of thought bubbles, is apparently working. It makes the artist work harder, because now he must convey their emotions through their faces; and it separates the artists who are great with this from those who are not so great.

[Hi-Fi]

I have my reasons.;)
Ah'd sure love to hear them.

[xgeek52]

i'm for what tells a good story...if a thought bubble advances the story -- go for it...

third person is best though...