The Beach Boys Discussion Thread

[Buried Alien]

Seeing how many of the other iconic rock acts have their own dedicated threads, it's time that Brian Wilson and his crew got one. :)

First, a run down of my personal favorites by the boys from Hawthorne, California (which was also my hometown):

1. "Surfer Girl"

2. "Wouldn't It Be Nice"

3. "Don't Worry Baby"

4. "Caroline No"

5. "God Only Knows"

For some reason, I've always gravitated more towards their ballad-y stuff than their up tempo rock 'n roll, although there's certainly nothing wrong with the likes of "Surfin USA," "Fun, Fun, Fun," and "Barbara Ann."

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

[Kara Zor El]

Second best band ever for me, after The Beatles.

Surf's Up.

Til I Die

God Only Knows

Forever

Little Bird

Cuddle Up

In My Room

I could go on and on

Fave albums -

Love You

Sunflower

Surf's Up

Friends

[Jonathan Bogart]

Second best band ever for me, after the Beach Boys.
First and second? Nice.

I've been listening to the Smile sessions a lot lately, and it's to the point that "Surf's Up" (either the originally-released version or Brian Wilson's demo version) can make me tear up almost instantly.

I don't feel like I ever really gave the Beach Boys their due until the past year; I'd heard them, but never really listened to them. But suddenly (probably for emotional reasons there's no need to go into) they're the most beautiful music in the world.

[The Confessor]

I've been listening to the Smile sessions a lot lately, and it's to the point that "Surf's Up" (either the originally-released version or Brian Wilson's demo version) can make me tear up almost instantly.

Yeah, a lot of the SMiLE stuff gets to me like that. I'm talking about the SMiLE stuff from 1966 & 1967, most of which is only available on bootlegs...not the more recent Brian Wilson version. Although that was still pretty good.

The stuff Brian was writing & recording during the SMiLE sessions is some of the most beautiful music ever created IMHO and Van Dyke Parks' lyrics are practically poetry. I agree with Dennis Wilson when he said that the SMiLE stuff was as much an improvement over Pet Sounds as Pet Sounds was over the Summer Days (And Summer Nights) album.

Anyway, off the top of my head, here are some of my favourite Beach Boys songs...

Surfin' USA
I Get Around
California Girls
God Only Knows
Caroline, No
Good Vibrations
Heroes And Villians
Cabin Essence
Surf's Up


OK, I'm gonna stop now because there's just too many great songs popping into my head to write them all down.

Surfice it to say that The Beach Boys are awesome!

[Rob on the Job]

The Beach Boys were/are incredible. I do not see any contemporary artist matching them, or the Beatles, for musical ingenuity and pioneering.

1. Do It Again

2. Caroline No

3. In My Room

4. Sloop John B

5. Heroes & Villains

[xocloverxo]

I never really gave them too much attention until recently either.

Wouldn't It Be Nice and God Only Knows can stop me in my tracks now

[howyadoin]

5 or 6 years of brilliance followed by decades of utter garbage.

Such a shame.

[Jonathan Bogart]

5 or 6 years of brilliance followed by decades of utter garbage.

Such a shame.
I must say, I've never understood judging a band by that criteria. (Even assuming we agreed on the brilliant parts; I think they're listenable up to Holland at least, though they never returned to their 1966 peak.) Mike Love And His Beach Boy Buddies having freak hits with shit like "Kokomo" in the 80s doesn't make "Wouldn't It Be Nice" any worse.

Some bands are marathon runners, some bands are sprinters; when the latter embarrass themselves by trying to be the former, the decent thing to do is to avert your eyes.

[howyadoin]

I must say, I've never understood judging a band by that criteria.I guess it's an effort on my part to distinguish between two very different bands - the innovative, exciting pop band, and the worthless nostalgia machine. And the "5 or 6 years" part wasn't meant to be a definitive summation of their career - just a rough estimate.

[Jonathan Bogart]

I guess it's an effort on my part to distinguish between two very different bands - the innovative, exciting pop band, and the worthless nostalgia machine.
Yeah, that makes sense. I guess I just never think about the worthless nostalgia machine.

[howyadoin]

Yeah, that makes sense. I guess I just never think about the worthless nostalgia machine.You've probably never had to sit through "Tryin' to Keep the Summer Alive".

[Buried Alien]

Yeah, that makes sense. I guess I just never think about the worthless nostalgia machine.

Me neither, although the Beach Boys did remain a potent concert act when they had their original lineup (more or less; Brian Wilson was in and out) up until Dennis Wilson's death in 1982.

But yeah, the REAL Beach Boys pretty much dried up after the abortion of the original SMILE project. What has existed since then has been pretty much a Beach Boys cover band that happens to have authentic Beach Boys members.

In their prime (1961-1967), however, they were perhaps the only band that gave the Beatles a run for their money.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

[jessecuster3]

In their prime (1961-1967), however, they were perhaps the only band that gave the Beatles a run for their money.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)


This has been a source of many conversations I have had with people, that the Beach Boys are the closest thing America has gotten to The Beatles or the Rolling Stones. For the sake of discussion, we choose not to include individuals like Elvis or Bob Dylan.

[Kara Zor El]

I think that a lot of the later stuff is better than the early sixties stuff. The Surf music is great and I love a lot of those songs but Albums like Friends, 20/20, Sunflower, Surf's Up, Carl and the Passions, 15 Big Ones and Love You are all stronger albums than the early ones. The other Beach Boys became great writers and producers and although Brian's output is smaller on most of those albums besides Love You, they are fantastic songs. Love you is one crazy album, the lyrics are so out there. I've got a bootleg where Brian is playing some of the songs to the others for the first time and you can actually here Mike Love's jaw hit the floor. Priceless.:p The big same is that most of those albums with the exception of 15 Big Ones didn't even make the top 100.
The thing about the Beach Boys for me, mostly through Brian's songs and Denis's ones, they hit an emotional chord in me. They helped me through the death of my sister and connected me with my inner spirit.
I own every album on those double CD's you can get. The last couple are pretty crap, mostly production wise but they still get a play from time to time.
And the box set is a real gem. With the demo of Surf's Up on and some unreleased stuff from the aborted Landlocked album.

[Ilash]

I hate to admit it but I'm not as enamored with the Beach Boys as I am with many other classic bands. Of course they have oodles of great songs and of course Brian Wilson is something of a musical genius. And yet, I only have three of their albums - Pet Sounds, Sunflower and Surf's Up - and honestly, beyond a comp of their classic early singles, I'm in no rush to pick up any more by them.

So, what exactly is my problem with a band with a multitude of classic songs and a GREAT songwriter at the helm, you ask? It's actually not an easy question to answer and I'm still not entirely clear on why I've never really managed to connect with their music. But, be that as it may, here are a few problems that I have with them and I'm looking forward to what people have to say about these criticisms.

1) All three of those albums are spotty as hell. Yes, even pet Sounds. I know Pet Sounds is usually regarded as one of rock and roll's most perfect albums but I truthfully don't quite understand this. Sure, it has stuff like Wouldn't It Be Nice and God Only Knows but many of the remaining tracks have never really grabbed me in the same way. It doesn't have any BAD tracks, mind you, I just don't find nearly enough stone cold classics on it for it to deserve its reputation. Needless to say, those other albums are even spottier - and though they are pretty much listenable from beginning to end, they do have their share of duffers.

2) Monotony. Now this one is a strange one because the Beach Boys are not really lacking that much in the diversity stakes. It's just that they don't really vary their sound as much as I would like (a particularly big problem here - see problem number 3). It's especially in the sixties that I notice this. I've heard a lot of their singles and their early poppy singles, while generally pretty great, do sound just a bit too similar for my own tastes. Pet Sounds, meanwhile, is extremely guilty of this. A large part of why so few songs stick out is because of how much they all flow into one another. It takes a true masterpiece like God Only Knows to properly break out of that sound. Compare it to Revolver from the same period and note the difference between the two when it comes to varying the sound, styles and mood. The other two albums are actually much better in this regard, to their credit but unfortunately the inconsistent songwriting counters this to a moderate degree.

3) The sound. The most subjective of my problems with them - and perhaps the most damaging - lies in the sound of the Beach Boys music. It's hard to distill what my problem with their sound is exactly but let me say this: if the Monkees have more grit than you, you know you're in trouble. However beautiful their music could be - and lets not kid, the Beach Boys made some incredibly beautiful music - I somehow find their music to be a bit too "airy", I guess you could say, for me to really grab a hold on to. It may be that they're less Black-American-music based than their British counterparts. I'm not sayng that weren't affected at all by those influences but it just seems to me that their music didn't have that "edge" that the blues gave the music of most of their contemporaries.

[Ilash]

This has been a source of many conversations I have had with people, that the Beach Boys are the closest thing America has gotten to The Beatles or the Rolling Stones. For the sake of discussion, we choose not to include individuals like Elvis or Bob Dylan.

It's strange but however much I don't rate The Beach Boys as being anywhere near the Beatles level, I do have trouble thinking of another band that fits this description. On the other hand, you start looking at individual musicians and America presents a much more formidable collection of musical giants.

[Rob Imes]

I have all of the Beach Boys 1960s albums on CD (except for the live concert two-fer) and was surprised when I found that I enjoyed the pre-1965 Beach Boys more than the late 1960s stuff. I was surprised by that, because I tend to like the experimental sound of the late 1960s (especially when it comes to The Beatles) than the early 1960s stuff, which I assumed would be more predictable and cliched. It may indeed be that, but I can't help myself -- I like the 1963-64 Beach Boys best.

My favorite Beach Boys songs would be (in no particular order):

"God Only Knows"

"Be True To Your School" (both versions)

"The Warmth of the Sun"

"I Get Around"

"Don't Worry Baby"

"Barbara Ann"

I only started listening to the Beach Boys around 2 years ago. Looking at the CDs, as I write this post, I feel like some of those early albums have been underappreciated, or at least I haven't read much about them. Take a look at Shut Down Volume Two for example. Three of the songs near the beginning of the album, "Don't Worry Baby," "In the Parkin' Lot," and "The Warmth of the Sun" feel like a trilogy to me, a continuing story of young love expressed in the kind of heavenly heart-wrenchingly beautiful way that a young person in love would be feeling. I assume that it is Brian doing all those high-pitch "ahhhh-ahhhhs" all over the place on these songs, an angelic voice that makes these songs so haunting.

[leonaozaki]

I know this will be heresy...but I've never really liked the Beach Boys. There was never a time in my life when I really listened to them and so now whenever they come on the radio I turn the station. Yes, of course, the music is amazing and Brian Wilson is some kind of insane compositional genius but I could never get into them. To me, growing up as a bit of a freak, the Beach Boys always seemed too...clique-y...somehow; if you didn't drive the right car and date the right girls and surf the right board you couldn't participate. It always struck me as very solipsistic music and I just can't enjoy it on anything other than an academic, intellectual level. As far as surf music goes, I'd much rather listen to Dick Dale (or even Jan and Dean, for God's sake..."Little Old Lady from Pasadena" is hilarious!).

I bought Pet Sounds years ago because I had read for years (damn you, Rolling Stone!) how great a record it was. And I agree that the amount of craft that went into it is staggering. But it's sort of the Sgt. Pepper's phenomenon--without the inherent wierdness of the Beatles-- in that the production is great but the songs-- "God Only Knows" and "Wouldn't it Be Nice" aside-- just aren't there.

(Well, "Sloop John B" is fun, but Brian Wilson didn't write that.)

I tried listening to the official release of Smile last year and it didn't grab me, but I think I could sort of see what people were talking about. So I might give that another whirl one of these days. But as far as the Beach Boys go, I've never liked them very much and I don't see a time when I will. I will also remain angry at them from "borrowing" riffs from Chuck Berry songs.

So I guess I agree (sort of) with Ilash about something else!

rob

[Jonathan Bogart]

It took me two years of listening to Pet Sounds every now and again before I really loved it. And now it just moves me on a primal level.

The Chuck Berry riffs do make their earliest work uncomfortable for me. It's one thing to be influenced by him, another thing entirely to lift the riff note-for-note. Carl was just a kid at the time, but still.

[david r]

Smile was to be released in May 1967. I think if Brian Wilson had finished his masterpiece, it would have stolen the thunder of "Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band" (released in June '67) and possibly the Beach Boys would be remembered as innovative as the Beatles became.

I have devoured the Brian Wilson 2004 Smile release and cannot imagine what an impact it would have had in 1967. Nobody was making music that different, progressive like Smile was. Nothing quite like it. The use of harmonies to create atmosphere, mood, even sound effects like the wind rustling or sawing wood. Brian Wilson's genius is all over Smile, even more than Pet Sounds. It was a truly innovative piece of work written in 1967.

Hell, I've never heard anybody else do something like Smile in all the years since it was written. It's a crime it was never finished and released in 1967.

[Black Atom]

Seeing how many of the other iconic rock acts have their own dedicated threads, it's time that Brian Wilson and his crew got one. :)

First, a run down of my personal favorites by the boys from Hawthorne, California (which was also my hometown):

1. "Surfer Girl"

2. "Wouldn't It Be Nice"

3. "Don't Worry Baby"

4. "Caroline No"

5. "God Only Knows"

[/COLOR]

Greetings, fellow Hawthornian. Don't get to say that much.

My top 5 is always in flux, but "Don't Worry Baby", "God Only Knows" and "Wouldn't It be Nice" are almost always in the top 3. I've come to really love "Surfer Girl" and even "In My Room" after not particularly caring for either for years.

[The Confessor]

Smile was to be released in May 1967. I think if Brian Wilson had finished his masterpiece, it would have stolen the thunder of "Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band" (released in June '67) and possibly the Beach Boys would be remembered as innovative as the Beatles became.

Or maybe it would have just sold as badly (or worse) than Pet Sounds? And maybe sunk without trace?

Admittedly, it's unlikely that it would've been totally ignored with a huge hit single like Good Vibrations on it but still, you should remember that Pet Sounds was not a hit when it first came out...especially in America. It sold considerably less than their preceeding albums...even Beach Boys Party!

Maybe Brian was just too far ahead of his time and the public weren't ready for it then, I dunno?

[Buried Alien]

Greetings, fellow Hawthornian. Don't get to say that much.

Cool! I spent some of my earliest years in Hawthorne...lived on 128th Street and went to Ramona School for Kindergarten up to the first semester of Second Grade from 1977-1980. :)

My parents used to own a grocery store on Inglewood Avenue.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

[Black Atom]

Cool! I spent some of my earliest years in Hawthorne...lived on 128th Street and went to Ramona School for Kindergarten up to the first semester of Second Grade from 1977-1980. :)

My parents used to own a grocery store on Inglewood Avenue.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

I went to Ramona, too (thought it would've been a little bit later). As did Marilyn Monroe, believe it or not.

The town has a pretty interesting history. I lived on 137th street. On 138th street was a diner called Hawthorne Grill,where they shot the opening to Pulp Fiction. Unfortunately, when the mall closed, the city had fallen on pretty hard times economically since I lived there last.

[Buried Alien]

I went to Ramona, too (thought it would've been a little bit later). As did Marilyn Monroe, believe it or not.

The town has a pretty interesting history. I lived on 137th street. On 138th street was a diner called Hawthorne Grill,where they shot the opening to Pulp Fiction. Unfortunately, when the mall closed, the city had fallen on pretty hard times economically since I lived there last.

I read about the PULP FICTION connection to Hawthorne. It's funny because Hawthorne is the *least* likely community I'd associate PULP FICTION (or any Tarantino film) with. :)

The city was still doing (relatively) well economically when I moved away from there at the end of the 1970s. I remember when the Hawthorne Mall first opened in 1977. It was very nice, and showed great promise during its first few years. It's a shame that it folded after fewer than twenty years in operation (but sandwiched between the bigger and more affluent Del Amo Fashion Center to the south and the Fox Hills Mall to the north, it was probably a bad investment to begin with).

By the way, did any of your teachers at Ramona include a Kindergarten teacher named Tioni...or a First Grade teacher named Millman? I'm not sure how many years after I was there you attended the school, but it's possible we might have had a teacher or two in common.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

[david r]

Sunflower (1970) is a worthy successor to Pet Sounds. Too bad more people are not aware how good it is. Even lovers of Pet Sounds.

Surf's Up (1971) and Carl & The Passions/So Tough (1972) have some good tunes, but not all-round great records.

Holland (1973) is an interesting experiment. But this record is one of my least favorite Beach Boys LPs.

15 Big Ones (1976) was Brian Wilson's much-hyped return to the studio after escaping his bedroom/prison. Most of the songs are cover tunes, with a few scattered new compositions.

Love You (1977) was the last time Brian Wilson had real producing control, and the results are mixed. I like this record a lot, but it is FAR from the greatness of Pet Sounds or Smile.

MIU Album (1978) and LA (Light Album) (1979) also have several good songs, Mike Love and Al Jardine seemed to be in charge at this point. I would say once the 1970s ended, the Beach Boys new material was never as good again.

[Ottmeister X]

Good Vibrations. Easily in the top 5 best rock songs ever.

I would recommend watching Live At Knebworth -- think I spelled that right -- as it's great live footage and shows that they did have some talent. I guess if anything, which shouldn't be much of a surprise, Mike Love is probably the least talented member on the stage. Good stuff though. I believe this was the last concert Dennis played before he died. Brian also has his own section of the stage in a reclusive way.

[Black Atom]

I read about the PULP FICTION connection to Hawthorne. It's funny because Hawthorne is the *least* likely community I'd associate PULP FICTION (or any Tarantino film) with. :)

The city was still doing (relatively) well economically when I moved away from there at the end of the 1970s. I remember when the Hawthorne Mall first opened in 1977. It was very nice, and showed great promise during its first few years. It's a shame that it folded after fewer than twenty years in operation (but sandwiched between the bigger and more affluent Del Amo Fashion Center to the south and the Fox Hills Mall to the north, it was probably a bad investment to begin with).

By the way, did any of your teachers at Ramona include a Kindergarten teacher named Tioni...or a First Grade teacher named Millman? I'm not sure how many years after I was there you attended the school, but it's possible we might have had a teacher or two in common.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)



Tarantino actually filmed portions of JACKIE BROWN at the Cockatoo Inn (which has also closed) in Hawthorne as well and, of course, there's the Del Amo Mall scene. I heard he was from Manhattan Beach, which might explain his affinity for the area.

There's been an economic surge in Hawthorne recently and they're even repopening the mall, I've heard.

I attended Ramona through grades 4-6, beginning in about 1990. I wouldn't be surprised if those teachers were there at that time, but I don't remember/didnt know them.

[Buried Alien]

Tarantino actually filmed portions of JACKIE BROWN at the Cockatoo Inn (which has also closed) in Hawthorne as well and, of course, there's the Del Amo Mall scene. I heard he was from Manhattan Beach, which might explain his affinity for the area.

My grandfather used to live on Freeman Avenue not far from the old Cockatoo Inn. The site where his home once stood is now a part of the Century Freeway. :(



There's been an economic surge in Hawthorne recently and they're even repopening the mall, I've heard.

Really? I haven't been out there since last summer, but at that time, the place was still a ruin waiting, apparently, for demolition. Maybe not, eh?

I attended Ramona through grades 4-6, beginning in about 1990. I wouldn't be surprised if those teachers were there at that time, but I don't remember/didnt know them.

Mrs. Tioni was in her fifties when she was my Kindergarten teacher back in '77-'78, and Mrs. Millman was in her sixties as my First Grade teacher in '78-'79. Most likely, both were long gone by the time you attended Ramona in the 1990s.

When I was a student at Ramona, the school was painted green. Ramona has had at least five or six paint jobs since then, I imagine (never green again, though).

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)