Characters only one person has written well

[StoneGold]

Inspired by a screed of mine in another thread, what characters/teams have only been written well by one writer? This is obviously a very subjective thread, so don't freak out too much if someone doesn't like your favorite run of Shogun Warriors.

I start with the New Warriors. Only Fabian Nicieza wrote them well. Evan Skolnick and Jay Faeber were terrible. And while I liked some of the characterization of the Wells series, the concept and plot were total crap. When you get down to it, New Warriors didn't suck for less than 53 issues. That's a little less than four and a half years of quality comics, all the direct output of one man. And there were a couple of crappers mixed in there as well, but more than enough quality to shine.

[Karl H]

Cable - Fabian Nicieza in current guise. For the first time ever I care about him.
Cecilia Reyes - Joe Kelly
Cage - Bendis - never saw the appeal of his early stuff until Bendis got a hold of him

[Cthulhudrew]

Cable - Fabian Nicieza in current guise. For the first time ever I care about him.

I'll second this one. I'd also add Mr. Sinister under Fabian. He only wrote him for a brief couple of issues (at least in C/DP- he's probably written him before), but until I read those, Sinny always just seemed like generic X-Villain #86 to me.

Also:

Maverick - Larry Hama
John Wraith - Larry Hama

I've never really liked the many incarnations of Mav outside of Hama's writing of him in Wolverine and the Maverick one-shot (they really should have pegged Hama for Mav's series), and- though I believe he's only ever been written by one other writer (two, if you count the horrid Weapon X book that Marvel Books put out a few years ago)- no one does John Wraith like Larry.

[Sean Walsh]

Quasar - Mark Gruenwald

[StoneGold]

Cable - Fabian Nicieza in current guise. For the first time ever I care about him.


Joe Casey's was pretty good too, although I might have been too distracted by the Ladronn artwork to notice any different.

[Novaya Havoc]

Sage -- Grant Morrison

[jpk]

Doug Moench on Moon Knight. Huston's off to a decent start, though.

Dishonorable mention to Terry Kavanagh, who killed Marc in the '90s. :mad:

[streator]

gambit- fabian nicieza

fantomex- grant morrison

[Shellhead]

Killraven - Don McGregor

Deathlok - Rich Buckler

Mantis - Steve Englehart

Adam Warlock - Jim Starlin

Thanos - Jim Starlin

Squirrel Girl - Dan Slott

Kitty Pryde - Joss Whedon

[Cthulhudrew]

Dishonorable mention to Terry Kavanagh, who killed Marc in the '90s. :mad:

Among many, many other horrible feats...


Adam Warlock - Jim Starlin

Thanos - Jim Starlin

D'OH! Can't believe I didn't think of those. Yeah- definitely ^^^


Molecule Man- Jim Shooter: Nobody's ever captured this character the way Shooter did in the Secret Wars and Secret Wars II LS's back in the day. By the same token, I'd add Ken "Starbrand" Connell to the Shooter list. That guy could write godlike but human characters really well.

[Kirk G]

John Byrne -- Alpha Flight (through issue #28 as Crossover with Hulk began)

[The Lucky One]

Longshot - Ann Nocenti. When even Claremont can't write a character well, you know you're in trouble. Bedard did okay, but he has yet to truly shine under any other writer but Nocenti.

-D

[streator]

i would say morrison for cyclops as well but i've enjoyed the way whedon's written him too for the most part.

[Adset]

John Byrne -- Alpha Flight (through issue #28 as Crossover with Hulk began)

(I don't mean for this to come off with a condescending tone): Have you ever read Steven Seagle's Alpha Flight run in the 90s? I thought it was incredible

[Brian "Vash" Ashby]

Magneto, Psylocke - Claremont

Black Panther - Preist

The Fantastic Four- the guy who wrote Marvel KNights 4, whats that guys name?

[marshal99]

Adam Warlock - Jim Starlin

Thanos - Jim Starlin


I think besides Starlin , Ron Marz has to be the one writer that has been able to write Warlock and Thanos well.

[ultramandingo]

ellis - monica rambeau, tabitha smith, machine man, elsa bloodstone, Captain ???? , jack flag , american eagle , steel spider and what ever c listers he gets hold off

[Chiasm]

Punisher - Garth Ennis. The way Punisher is supposed to be. He kicks ass and takes names unlike his War Journal self that interacts with superheroes and where he never actually gets to succeed in taking down the bad guys because he's not editorially allowed to kill Kingpin or any other big bad guy.

[Adset]

The Fantastic Four- the guy who wrote Marvel KNights 4, whats that guys name?

:eek:

[Arilou]

Exiles: Jude Winick. The book hasn't been the same since he left.

[Ogrebear]

Dan Slott's Vol 1 run on She-Hulk was fantastic.

Vol 2 has not been as much fun but then it has crossed over more and seems to have had more artists....

[Chiasm]

Anything involving Jamie Madrox should be written by Peter David. He should be assigned as Jamie's personal writer for the rest of time as he's the only writer I've seen who gets him. Be it X-Factor or a solo book.

[geordiesteve]

Priest - Black Panther.

Garth Ennis - Punisher. (I've not read War Journal though, so can't comment on Fraction's spin on Frank Castle)

[tony2074]

roberto aguirre-sarcasa a spanish or mexican playwrite before (possibly during) his marvel books.

i loved 4 as well, he did an awesome job of writing a grounded fantastic 4.

[Rahul]

Luke Cage by Bendis....

[BrentB]

Priest - Black Panther.

Garth Ennis - Punisher. (I've not read War Journal though, so can't comment on Fraction's spin on Frank Castle)

I'll second both of those. I personally have never liked Punisher books but there were some Ennis stories that I didn't hate.

[Mikl C]

Lobdell- Iceman.
I seriously haven't found a writer who write's Bobby's personality anywhere near as good.

Agree with Nicieza and Gambit.

[Lanowar]

Black Panther- Priest

Madrox- Peter David

Luke Cage & Spider-Woman- Bendis

Cable- Nicieza

Doctor Strange- Brian K Vaughn (I always felt Bendis Doctor Strange was just a voicepiece he used to explain magic)

Deadpool- Gail Simone as much as I like Kelly and Nicieza somthing about Gail's humour and the character made me love her run. Though those 3 to me are the triumverate of Deadpool.

[DannyV_El_Acme]

Longshot - Ann Nocenti. When even Claremont can't write a character well, you know you're in trouble. Bedard did okay, but he has yet to truly shine under any other writer but Nocenti.

-D

Chris Claremont isn't infallible. That last New X-Men arc he did with Marc Silvestri was crap. I'm not taking anything away from his earlier X-Men work(especially the Dark Phoenix Saga) that was exemplary work, but he can misfire from time to time.

[Dagger]

Chris Claremont isn't infallible. That last New X-Men arc he did with Marc Silvestri was crap. I'm not taking anything away from his earlier X-Men work(especially the Dark Phoenix Saga) that was exemplary work, but he can misfire from time to time.
That was Grant Morrison, but yeah, Claremont is hit and miss, more miss than hit nowadays, but thats just my opinion.

[The Lucky One]

Chris Claremont isn't infallible. That last New X-Men arc he did with Marc Silvestri was crap. I'm not taking anything away from his earlier X-Men work(especially the Dark Phoenix Saga) that was exemplary work, but he can misfire from time to time.

No, he's certainly not infallible; having said that, there are very few characters he couldn't make at least somewhat interesting, especially during his prime. Nearly any X-character you've ever liked, you like because of Claremont, with very rare (Madrox, Longshot, Dazzler) exceptions.

But this thread isn't for debating Claremont's merits -- and dear God am I sick of it -- so I propose we shelve that debate before it gets started.
;)

-D

[Jack]

Black Panther- Priest

Madrox- Peter David

Luke Cage & Spider-Woman- Bendis

Cable- Nicieza

Doctor Strange- Brian K Vaughn (I always felt Bendis Doctor Strange was just a voicepiece he used to explain magic)

Deadpool- Gail Simone as much as I like Kelly and Nicieza somthing about Gail's humour and the character made me love her run. Though those 3 to me are the triumverate of Deadpool.
With those last two I think you've veered away from the topic and onto your favourite writers. It's not "who wrote character x the best", it's "who is the only person to ever write character x well", and that very much isn't the case for Deadpool and Doctor Strange, as you yourself said.

[StoneGold]

roberto aguirre-sarcasa a spanish or mexican playwrite before (possibly during) his marvel books.

i loved 4 as well, he did an awesome job of writing a grounded fantastic 4.
Roberto Aguirre-Sacasa, actually, no r in the last name. And no, he's American. His parents were from Nicaragua. And no, he isn't the only one to write FF well.



And for the record, Ennis isn't the only one to have written Castle well, either. Baron, Dixon, DNA... seriously, if you think Ennis is the only one who can write him, you haven't read much Punisher.

[StoneGold]

With those last two I think you've veered away from the topic and onto your favourite writers. It's not "who wrote character x the best", it's "who is the only person to ever write character x well", and that very much isn't the case for Deadpool and Doctor Strange, as you yourself said.

Thank you. I thought I was the only one noticing this thread drifting that way.

[Chiasm]

Magneto - Chris Claremont

Take any other writer and Magneto is written as a crazed villian who wants to destroy the world. He's virtually a caricature of a comic book villian he's so ridiculous. But under CC he's a fully fleshed out and complex villian whom you can actually sympathize with.

[DannyV_El_Acme]

No, he's certainly not infallible; having said that, there are very few characters he couldn't make at least somewhat interesting, especially during his prime. Nearly any X-character you've ever liked, you like because of Claremont, with very rare (Madrox, Longshot, Dazzler) exceptions.

But this thread isn't for debating Claremont's merits -- and dear God am I sick of it -- so I propose we shelve that debate before it gets started.
;)

-D

Agreed, i don't wanna be categorized as a Claremont basher, anyway, I enjoy most of his work immensely ;)

As for who I think should be the only one to write a certain character, I'd have to say Howard Mackie with Ghost Rider. The Danny Ketch Ghost Rider written by Mackie and drawn by Javier Saltares and Mark Texeira is probably my favorite incarnation of the character, especially since the comic was a part of the Midnight Sons series of books, which gave him a nice, occult mini-universe to revolve around. Almost all other incarnations of the character have sucked bad.

[Brian "Vash" Ashby]

Roberto Aguirre-Sacasa, actually, no r in the last name. And no, he's American. His parents were from Nicaragua. And no, he isn't the only one to write FF well.

Ah thats his name

The name of the only person to ever rock the hell out of the fantastic four.


although i havent read Thing by SLott yet, so who knows.



Surprised people like Lodbell's Iceman. Mostly because he was so emo. Of course this was one of the prime examples of making Iceman all whiney. Now a days everytime a new writer gets ahold of iceman i hear fans say "are you going to make the character more serious, cause he;s more than a funny guy"

And i think to myself

Iceman hasnt been funny since 1990.



Anyway more fuel for the fire

Outlaw and the rest of the Agent X bunch - Gail simone (excluding taskmaster who's own mini series not written by Gail was also very good). Those none gail simone issues of Agent X were painful.


Angel - Austen. Yep. Austen. Austen Angel is a skeezy perv, but i didnt want to punch him in the face. So thats an upgrade. He became a whacky character, like Quagmire. Giggiddy gigiddy goo.

Juggernaut- the person who made that "i'm the juggernaut bitch" cartoon

[PFunk]

Pulsar (then as Captain Marvel)-Roger Stern

[SoulStar]

Ok I'm just gonna say it since I enjoy the book so much and STILL waiting for season two to start up
Young Avengers- Allen Heinberg
As the advertisments have stated, it was not what I thought it was going to be at all. What started off as some mediocre attempt to introduce some lame ass teen heroes to rival Dc's Teen Titans has transformed quickly into one of my favorite series of all time in such a short time span. Excellent writing and great characters make this the book for me. Now if only Allen can get his sh!t together then he and jim cheung can get back to buisness and kick some ass in marvel like before.
Second fav book? New Avengers-Brian Micheal Bendis

[Citizen V]

Claremont with the Uncanny X-Men (his original run)

[overcomebyfumes]

No one wrote Xorn better than Morrison...



pax.

[Young Avenger]

Howard the Duck - Steve Gerber

[overcomebyfumes]

Howard the Duck - Steve Gerber

Steve Gerber and Man-Thing, for that matter...

pax.

[Syzygy]

Adam Warlock - Jim Starlin

Thanos - Jim Starlin

Kitty Pryde - Joss Whedon

I'll go along with these....

Joss' writing was the first time I ever liked "Shadowbrat", exactly because she wasn't a "brat" any longer.

[Willminus2]

I don't know about everyone else but I feel like nobody writes a better Captain America than Mark Waid.

I really hate Brubaker's writing on Cap.

[StoneGold]

I don't know about everyone else but I feel like nobody writes a better Captain America than Mark Waid.

I really hate Brubaker's writing on Cap.

This is not who writes something better than everyone else. This is who is only written well by one solitary writer.

[dingo]

The Fantastic Four- the guy who wrote Marvel KNights 4, whats that guys name?



Ah thats his name

The name of the only person to ever rock the hell out of the fantastic four.


WTF!

He was pretty good, but to say he was the only person to write the FF well.
I don't think that is a defensible position.

[DannyV_El_Acme]

WTF!

He was pretty good, but to say he was the only person to write the FF well.
I don't think that is a defensible position.

Agreed, Mark Waid's last run on Fantastic Four was AWESOME, and before him people like John Byrne and Stan Lee himself have made the FF truly be The World's Greatest Comics Magazine.

[Enigmanaut]

Quasar - Mark Gruenwald

Agreed on that.


No one wrote Xorn better than Morrison...



Did anyone else actually write him?

[Shem the Penman]

To those who say only Bendis has written Luke Cage well, I'd point to Don McGregor and Jo Duffy. The Cage of the '70s and '80s wasn't just pirate shirts and "Sweet Christmas!"

(This is not a bash. I like Bendis, and I like what he's done with Cage. I just don't think he's the only writer who's handled Cage well.)

Anyway, for my money, no one has gotten Shang-Chi right except for Doug Moench. Certainly not Ben Raab.

[streator]

Agreed on that.



Did anyone else actually write him?

austen wrote his brother/replacement in a few x-men issues after morrison left.

[Rob on the Job]

Two fer one:

Only one person has written both "Supreme" and "WildCATS" well:

http://www.facade.com/celebrity/photo/Alan_Moore.jpg

[Cthulhudrew]

Howard the Duck - Steve Gerber

Also, Foolkiller.

[Cthulhudrew]

To those who say only Bendis has written Luke Cage well, I'd point to Don McGregor and Jo Duffy.

Also, Priest (then Owsley)

[Brian "Vash" Ashby]

Agreed, Mark Waid's last run on Fantastic Four was AWESOME, and before him people like John Byrne and Stan Lee himself have made the FF truly be The World's Greatest Comics Magazine.

Disagree. I though Waid's FF run, which i read, was very overrated. And i didnt care about any of the characters. Now i have a super strong Human Torch (in the comics, in the movies i dig him) hate so thats a hard obstacle for any writer to overcome, but that Marvel KNights 4 guy knocked it out of the park.

I've only read ff occasionally. Some Stan Lee stuff, some John Bryne stuff. Waid stuff. Never did anything for me.

Was always curious about Claremonts FF stuff though.



Back to the question at hand

Kitty Pryde- Chris Claremont. Whedon butchers this character. Mekanix was sooo good, but now we just got a chick for Colossus to sleep with. Yuck.

The Hulk- Stan Lee. I think. I only like the Hulk when he's a child with a temper tantrum. None of this smart Hulk for me.

Squirrel Girl- Dan Slott.

[StoneGold]

The Hulk- Stan Lee. I think. I only like the Hulk when he's a child with a temper tantrum. None of this smart Hulk for me.
.

Most of Stan's Hulk was relatively smart.

Besides, if that's your only criteria, there were plenty of writers who did the Hulk Smash-Hulk.


Honestly, have you actually read any of these issues, or are you just going off of what you think you'd like?

[Adset]

The Hulk- Stan Lee. I think. I only like the Hulk when he's a child with a temper tantrum. None of this smart Hulk for me.

Peter David and I hate you

[Brian "Vash" Ashby]

Most of Stan's Hulk was relatively smart.

Besides, if that's your only criteria, there were plenty of writers who did the Hulk Smash-Hulk.


Honestly, have you actually read any of these issues, or are you just going off of what you think you'd like?

What? Of the hulk? I've read little hulk in my day. But from what ive read this whole smart hulk thing is boring.


Like i remember this one issue where Rick Jones was having a bachelor party and the hulk was just there all green and smart. Carrying luggage for margo, marlo....something.....'s mother. Surprised that he would be allowed in an airport at all.

Hulk shouldnt carry bags of puny humans.

[StoneGold]

What? Of the hulk? I've read little hulk in my day. But from what ive read this whole smart hulk thing is boring.

.

This thread isn't about concepts you don't like though. It's about characters who have only been written well under one author. Of which the character you are talking about, you don't have enough experience with to say whether or not they've only been written well by one person. You don't like smart Hulk. OK, but that's not what this is about in the slightest. There have been many writers to write dumb Hulk. And the one you picked isn't one of them. That's just willful ignorance.

[Brian "Vash" Ashby]

This thread isn't about concepts you don't like though. It's about characters who have only been written well under one author. Of which the character you are talking about, you don't have enough experience with to say whether or not they've only been written well by one person. You don't like smart Hulk. OK, but that's not what this is about in the slightest. There have been many writers to write dumb Hulk. And the one you picked isn't one of them. That's just willful ignorance.

Absolutely its about concepts one doesnt like. There arent right answers for this, just opinions based on various inputs. I can say in a blanket statement that if a writer writes a smart hulk i dont think that that writer is writing hulk well.

As for stan lee from the stuff i've read although he wasnt super stupid, he was certainly childish in intelligence. Did stan make him smart later? i have no idea. Nor do i care

Nor would it affect my answer.

If i read only 2 issues of the hulk by two different writers i could say for me, hypothetically, only one writer wrote the character well

This elitist snobbery is wasted breath. It doesnt matter and i dont care.

Do you honestly think that everyone here who has listed their opinions, which is what the thread is btw, has read every appearance of every character by every author? Of course not

Notice what i actually said on my post

The Hulk- Stan Lee. I think.

Could there be other writers out there that write a great stupid hulk that im unaware of? Sure

Again, notice the I think portion of my post. However from my experience, however limited i listed the only name that i remember from the hulk comics i've read, of a hulk i liked.

Case closed.

Let it go buddy unless you get off on being an argumentative jerk

The worlds going to keep on turning if you do or you dont. Save your time.

[StoneGold]

Absolutely its about concepts one doesnt like. There arent right answers for this, just opinions based on various inputs. I can say in a blanket statement that if a writer writes a smart hulk i dont think that that writer is writing hulk well. As the guy who created this thread, no, it isn't. It's about who has been written well only by one writer. I mean sure, everyone can have an opinion. But if my opinion was that the sky is chartreuse, my opinion would be wrong. In this case, you are wrong. And not because Stan isn't necessarily the only person who has written Hulk right, but your reasoning.


As for stan lee from the stuff i've read although he wasnt super stupid, he was certainly childish in intelligence. Did stan make him smart later? i have no idea. Nor do i care


No, Stan had him pretty smart from the very beginning. Nuclear scientist smart? No, but Hulk was only that for a very short period of time in the 90s. Firing ray guns at aliens smart? Oh, you betcha.

Go pick up the first volume of Essential Hulk. He's about as smart there as he is right now. Talks in fuller sentences, too.

[Brian "Vash" Ashby]

As the guy who created this thread, no, it isn't. It's about who has been written well only by one writer. I mean sure, everyone can have an opinion. But if my opinion was that the sky is chartreuse, my opinion would be wrong. In this case, you are wrong. And not because Stan isn't necessarily the only person who has written Hulk right, but your reasoning.


*yawn*

This isnt even worth it. If you honestly think something as subjective as this can have right answers i cant say anything to cure you of that crazy.

But since you are the arbitrator of opinions and can sort out the right ones from the wrong ones :rolleyes: , then tell me this

Shellhead said that only Joss Whedon has written Kitty Pryde well

I've said that only Claremont has written Kitty Pryde well.

Which one of us is right there big guy?

And since i can, i will actually disprove your assertion here with your actual opening post.

Is this subjective?


As the guy who created this thread, no, it isn't. It's about who has been written well only by one writer. I mean sure, everyone can have an opinion. But if my opinion was that the sky is chartreuse, my opinion would be wrong.

Is this subjective?


Inspired by a screed of mine in another thread, what characters/teams have only been written well by one writer? This is obviously a very subjective thread, so don't freak out too much if someone doesn't like your favorite run of Shogun Warriors.


Since you are running around not even following the advice of your open post, feel free to tell me which one of you is right as well.

Cause you are sending some mixed signals there slick.




Now since i guess in your 26K posts you've never learned any sort of tact or politeness, here's how if you disagreed with my posts should have responded

Me: The only Hulk ive liked is the Stan Lee hulk. I think. I really only like a stupid hulk, none of this smart Hulk for me.

You: If you like stupid hulk you should look into Marty McFakenames run from Hulk 1069- 1304. I think you'll find many hulk runs are like this and you should check it out if you are interested in that form of the hulk. I think there are many great writers for Hulk no matter what type of hulk you like.

Boom

Would have been over and done.

[Harold of the Rocks]

Well, let's get some perspective here.

I have not read enough of any one character to lay down any definitive opinions. I do think that this thread is going to have to be limited to those who are very well versed in at least one character. I don't think they have to have read everything ever written about that character, but they sure as heck should have some knowledge about each of the lengthy runs different writers have had.

In other words, if your only exposure to the Hulk is Stan Lee and Greg Pak... uh, why don't you not offer an opinion on that character, and select a different one. You know full well there are dozens of other writers who you could not possibly have an opinion on. Because the question isn't "your favorite" -- of which you would only need exposure to one writer to be credible... in this case, to say that only one writer has done character X justice... you ought to be able to cite all the major writers along the way.

My favorite characters are Spider-Man, Iron Man and the Fantastic Four. Each of those characters has had far too many writers based on my reading for me to argue a valid opinion that only one writer has written them well. In fact, I can already say that none of those characters has had only one writer write them well... because in my opinion they have all had more than one good writer. But to claim that only one writer has written them well requires that I can back that up with at least exposure to all the major writers for that character.

You're telling me that Hulk has only been written well by Stan Lee? That the Fantastic Four has only had one good writer -- and you can't even name him? I agree it is a subjective question... but in order to be 'qualified' to answer it, you have to have a certain level of exposure and knowledge. It's like going to a panel of experts for an opinion on something. Say, scientists on the topic of global warming. Not all will agree, and no one is necessarily right or wrong. But there is still a level of credibility that the panel has. Throwing a group of kindergarteners into the panel just dilutes the thing into nonsense. I'm saying I am a kindergartener on this subject and can't bring anything meaningful to the question and there's nothing wrong with admitting it. If you can't even name Aguirre-Sacasa by name, it's kind of demonstrates that maybe you and I should dine at the card table on this one and let the 'grown ups' have at it.

In other words, your opinion is not invalid -- but in the case of at least a few characters, your level of expertise does not warrant an 'expert opinion'.

My answer to the question is "I can't think of one...". I know of no character who has only been written well by one writer.

Scratch that... I thought of one. Tracer. Only Peter David has written him well. So far. I believe I am qualified to argue that one. ;)

[overcomebyfumes]

Did anyone else actually write him?

Kinda my point. Also, Xorn's been a mess from the beginning. He was never "written well"...

pax.

[Brian "Vash" Ashby]

Well, let's get some perspective here.

I have not read enough of any one character to lay down any definitive opinions. I do think that this thread is going to have to be limited to those who are very well versed in at least one character. I don't think they have to have read everything ever written about that character, but they sure as heck should have some knowledge about each of the lengthy runs different writers have had.

In other words, if your only exposure to the Hulk is Stan Lee and Greg Pak... uh, why don't you not offer an opinion on that character, and select a different one. You know full well there are dozens of other writers who you could not possibly have an opinion on. Because the question isn't "your favorite" -- of which you would only need exposure to one writer to be credible... in this case, to say that only one writer has done character X justice... you ought to be able to cite all the major writers along the way.

I disagree. But firstly, nice tactful thought out post.

I have been exposed to more writers than Stan Lee and Greg Pak and Peter David, i just dont remember their names because the hulk issues i read were so uninteresting to me i dont recall them because i read them like once 10 years ago or something i didnt think of them sense.

My only liking Hulk when written by stan lee from the stuff i read, is actually a commentary on the writers. If the writers fail to interest me in the hulk, which they all have done, then i dont need to read more than one issue to verify that opinion. You just need some contrasting examples of writing to, in your mind, compare

I didnt read much of Stan's hulk because i never really had the time to invest in a character i was only passingly interested in, but Stan Lee was the only writer who i have read that has made the character interesting.




You're telling me that Hulk has only been written well by Stan Lee? That the Fantastic Four has only had one good writer -- and you can't even name him?

I didnt remember the fantastic four writers name because i was making a bit of a fly by the pants post and didnt recall the name off hand. But to me from all the fantastic four i've read, from their series, to the heroes reborn crap, to crossovers and guest appearances, like in the first few issues of dazzler, i've only liked the characters under his pen.

Could i name ever writer of the fantastic four that i've read?

Nope. Dont remember. If i read something 10 years ago and dont like it chances are i wont even remember the story let alone the writer.

As for the Hulk i didnt say definitively that Stan Lee is the only hulk writer thats good. Again, i was just giving a quick opinion based on what i've read, little or no. And i even had the "i think" tacked on.

Trying to point out a level of ignorance of all the hulk writers/storylines on my part is a moot point considering i underline the fact that i dont know myself in my own post.








In other words, your opinion is not invalid -- but in the case of at least a few characters, your level of expertise does not warrant an 'expert opinion'.

There is a pretty big difference between subjective, which is completely opinion based and has nothing to do with being an expert or not, and looking for objective analytical answers.

I dont claim to be an expert in my post. Im certainly vastly more comfortable saying that Roberto Aguirre-Sacasa is the only FF writer who's done anything for the characters than i am with the Stan Lee hulk stuff for sure.

Again the very post i made about the hulk invites people to say stuff like "X-writer also wrote a stupid hulk, etc. Check it out"

Ive read probably close to 50 stories with the fantastic four in them. Read probably the first 12 issues of marvel knights 4. Read a good chuck of that waid run. Only one writer made me like the characters and wrote them as interesting.

But even then, i added on that i didnt read Dan Slott's hulk yet so i didnt know.

You will never get an expert opinion in this thread, you can only get a more and more informed opinion. However, even then, even if i read every FF appearance ever and still said only Roberto's FF was good that would still be subjective.

There are no facts here in terms of the topic posed.

Nor are there any qualifications. No 'you must have read this many issues to post' limitations. Nor should there be.

A topic like this should be a nice little discussion and perhaps an exposure to more writers and runs for those not in the know.

Not some chest beating "i know more about hulk than you" nonsense.

[phantom1592]

Darkhawk was only written "well" by the guy who created him. And I'm kicking myself for not being able to remember his name..... I think he was drawn at the time by Mike Manley... Again I can't swear to it. The first 25+ issues were fantastic, everyone else who touches this guy, writing or drawing, tends to screw him up.

[Brian "Vash" Ashby]

Meh

Forget i said anything. I really dont care one way or another anymore.

Im moving on. Let's all do the same.

[StoneGold]

*yawn*

This isnt even worth it. If you honestly think something as subjective as this can have right answers i cant say anything to cure you of that crazy.

But since you are the arbitrator of opinions and can sort out the right ones from the wrong ones :rolleyes: , then tell me this

Shellhead said that only Joss Whedon has written Kitty Pryde well

I've said that only Claremont has written Kitty Pryde well.

Which one of us is right there big guy?

And since i can, i will actually disprove your assertion here with your actual opening post.

Is this subjective?



Is this subjective?



Since you are running around not even following the advice of your open post, feel free to tell me which one of you is right as well.

Cause you are sending some mixed signals there slick.




Now since i guess in your 26K posts you've never learned any sort of tact or politeness, here's how if you disagreed with my posts should have responded

Me: The only Hulk ive liked is the Stan Lee hulk. I think. I really only like a stupid hulk, none of this smart Hulk for me.

You: If you like stupid hulk you should look into Marty McFakenames run from Hulk 1069- 1304. I think you'll find many hulk runs are like this and you should check it out if you are interested in that form of the hulk. I think there are many great writers for Hulk no matter what type of hulk you like.

Boom

Would have been over and done.
Condescending BS from you aside, you never mentioned a fake Hulk. Stan's Hulk was pretty smart. Your whole shpiel is empty. Meaningless.

[Magneto_X]

Cable - Fabian Nicieza in current guise. For the first time ever I care about him.

Joe Casey did a great job with Cable, as well. Carey's Cable is great, too.

Cecilia Reyes - Joe Kelly


Agreed here. Claremont even made her speak random Spanish (ala Nightcrawler) in his run. WTF?!? :confused:

[Magneto_X]

Maverick - Larry Hama

I've never really liked the many incarnations of Mav outside of Hama's writing of him in Wolverine and the Maverick one-shot (they really should have pegged Hama for Mav's series)

I loved Mav in his ongoing by Gonzales. That made me a fan of the character!

To bad it only lasted 12 issues. :(

[Kefky]

Doc Samson, PAD. The character always strikes me a pretty me except when PAD writes him, he's funny, smart, and pretty damn cool too.

Needless to say, I'm kinda peeved with the character's involvement in WWH... Not sure if I'll ever be able to actually see him as a fun and laid-back guy after all the sh*t he's done here. Oh well.

[Harold of the Rocks]

I disagree. But firstly, nice tactful thought out post Hey, agreeing to disagree is fine by me.
I have been exposed to more writers than Stan Lee and Greg Pak and Peter David, i just dont remember their names because the hulk issues i read were so uninteresting to me i dont recall them because i read them like once 10 years ago or something i didnt think of them sense.

My only liking Hulk when written by stan lee from the stuff i read, is actually a commentary on the writers. If the writers fail to interest me in the hulk, which they all have done, then i dont need to read more than one issue to verify that opinion. You just need some contrasting examples of writing to, in your mind, compare

I didnt read much of Stan's hulk because i never really had the time to invest in a character i was only passingly interested in, but Stan Lee was the only writer who i have read that has made the character interesting.

I didnt remember the fantastic four writers name because i was making a bit of a fly by the pants post and didnt recall the name off hand. But to me from all the fantastic four i've read, from their series, to the heroes reborn crap, to crossovers and guest appearances, like in the first few issues of dazzler, i've only liked the characters under his pen.

Could i name ever writer of the fantastic four that i've read?

Nope. Dont remember. If i read something 10 years ago and dont like it chances are i wont even remember the story let alone the writer.

As for the Hulk i didnt say definitively that Stan Lee is the only hulk writer thats good. Again, i was just giving a quick opinion based on what i've read, little or no. And i even had the "i think" tacked on.

Trying to point out a level of ignorance of all the hulk writers/storylines on my part is a moot point considering i underline the fact that i dont know myself in my own post.I'm not calling anyone ignorant. And you don't have to be an 'expert' in my opinion either. To make the claim that one character has only been written well by whomever -- one writer... does require a certain level of expertise on that character. That's why I said I would have to sit this one out. Not dis'in ya, but if you can't or seemingly can't name more than a writer or two here, I would think that would draw a lot of criticism here... and rightly so, if you claim the character has been mishandled by everyone except X. People are gonna crawl out of the woodwork with "What about X?" posts. Knowledge of all writers not required as I already pointed out. Knowledge of more than two (or the appearance of knowledge of more than two)? Probably a lot more conducive to a positive discussion. Otherwise it just invites... well, you can see now what it invites ;) .

There is a pretty big difference between subjective, which is completely opinion based and has nothing to do with being an expert or not, and looking for objective analytical answers.

I dont claim to be an expert in my post. Im certainly vastly more comfortable saying that Roberto Aguirre-Sacasa is the only FF writer who's done anything for the characters than i am with the Stan Lee hulk stuff for sure.

Again the very post i made about the hulk invites people to say stuff like "X-writer also wrote a stupid hulk, etc. Check it out"

Ive read probably close to 50 stories with the fantastic four in them. Read probably the first 12 issues of marvel knights 4. Read a good chuck of that waid run. Only one writer made me like the characters and wrote them as interesting.

But even then, i added on that i didnt read Dan Slott's hulk yet so i didnt know.

You will never get an expert opinion in this thread, you can only get a more and more informed opinion. However, even then, even if i read every FF appearance ever and still said only Roberto's FF was good that would still be subjective.But it would make your informed opinion much more valid than saying you've read 50 stories; 12 by "that guy on MK4" and a "good chuck" of Waid's run (so what's that leave... maybe 25 stories for 'other' writers? The FF have a huge catalog, and that's going to raise skepticism).

There are no facts here in terms of the topic posed.

Nor are there any qualifications. No 'you must have read this many issues to post' limitations. Nor should there be.

A topic like this should be a nice little discussion and perhaps an exposure to more writers and runs for those not in the know.

Not some chest beating "i know more about hulk than you" nonsense.You're right that there is no right or wrong. And there are no qualifications required to post. But you better have some amount of qualifications to defend a position that the only good writer of Fantastic Four has been Roberto Aguirre-Sacasa. Once you make that claim, it's you who places yourself into 'knowledgeable historian' status. Not anyone else. It's not about chest beating. If you haven't read most major runs by a character, then your role here is to 'bite your tongue' and read -- when it comes to that character. That's where the exposure comes in. Reading is participation as well. I threw out one character I feel I can weigh in on... and read the rest of the thread. Now I can look at the presumably informed opinions of others; weigh their arguments; consider their tastes based on previous posts, pull lists in signatures, etc.; and decide "hey, I should check out Steranko's run on Cap" or something of the sort. It's not the place for everyone to weigh in on every character. I didn't see any chest beating along the way. But I will say that I won't give your opinion on the Hulk (or the FF for that matter) very much credibility as you yourself undermined it. And in my opinion, you had no reason to weigh in on the character of The Hulk based on your own description of your exposure -- and Stan was the only one to write him with child-like intellect? That's all I need to hear to know you haven't read a lot of Hulk writer's work. And I'm far from an 'expert' when it comes to the Hulk.

Point is you made yourself a target for criticism by weighing in on characters with whom you admittedly aren't well read... and this isn't about chest beating. Like you said it should be (and I think is) a place for some of us to get exposure to writer's we haven't considered before. Like I said, you only need read two writers at minimum to discount the "only one writer" criterion... but you need to have read most of a character's history to claim there's only been one worth reading. So this isn't an 'expert' (or 'informed historian') only thread... but you open yourself up once you start naming writers who are 'the only good one'.