What was so bad about Ultimate X-men?

[TheLazy]

I've just re-read Millars initial run on UXM, and I cant see why people think that he was the books worst writer. To be honest Id say he was the books best writer. He helped establish a strong Ultimate continuity and develop nice twists on classic characters. Now maybe he did throw a few duds like proteus, but compared to a great arcs like return to weapon X and Return of the King, I think these are reletively negatable

thoughts?

:)

[Thorlief]

I don't think Millar was the worst writer..actually, I think lots of us think his run was the best of the serie. Cool action, excellent pencils, witty dialogues,,,it was funny. I basically stopped buying it when he left

[Roons]

I wasn't away anyone thought that Millar's run was the worst, I think it's still the best run on the book so far.

[Guybrush]

After Beast told his internet girlfriend (Who was actually Blob) that Magneto is alive I couldn't take the book serious anymore, that is probably while I don't mind most of the stuff that happen. For me its just 1 big parody.

[Gargus]

I loved UXM when it first started, I liked what millar did alot. It actually felt kind of new and different while still being a X title.

Once millar left it started going downhill, it took a big dip down when bendis wrote a little, then when kirkman took over it was the worst it had been. When he was writing it was just a soap opera of who is f'ing who.

I dont even buy it anymore. Im quitting UFF to when this arc is over. It started slow but picked up (again thanks to millar mostly) and now it went right down the crapper after that pitiful excuse for a thanos story.

But I never always disliked UXM, I just do now and have for awhile.

[Neptunicus]

I for one also thought Millar's run was the best and the writing has been good on the title until recently.....

[Mister Mets]

I don't think Millar's run was universally despised. There were some long-time fans who didn't liek the revamp, but it sold insanely well.

I don't recall many people ranking Bendis or Kirkman's run above it, so I don't think he's really considered the book's worst writer.

It is worth noting that Millar has topped his Ultimate X-men work his Ultimates book, and Wolverine run, and now believes that it was a mistake to stay on the book for more than twelve issues.

[rwsmith]

I think you've heard wrong. Millar's run was the best IMO, and it went steadily downhill from there.

Millar > Bendis > Vaughan > Kirkman

[Toboe]

I don't think anyone thinks he was the book's worst writer, that's a title Robert Kirkman has won without doubt.
I quite liked Millar's initial run and his new take on the characters and concepts. However all his villians were just plain one-dimensional, especially Proteus, some ideas like machines evolving to create zombies were just laughable and there were massive plot holes from time to time, especially in the Hellfire and Brimstone arc.
Even though, his writing was entertaining, especially in the first three arcs, and helped establish the Ultimate Universe as it is.

[Omega Alpha]

What? Millar is the most acclaimed writer on the title. Kirkman is considered to be the worse almost unanimously.

[streator]

i've only read the first hardcover of ultimate x-men (issues 1-12) and i thought it was alright.

i too would say that it doesn't appear to be that millar's run is considered the worst around here.

[Xany Kaos]

Yeah. Millar was pretty fantastic. He actually made me like Cyclops. Because, y'know, Millar's Cyclops had a personality and all.

[The Foreigner]

*raises hand*

I thought Millar's run was the worst of UXM.

I only read the first few issues of Kirkman's run, thought it was terribly boring, and gave up. So maybe he's worse, but either way...

When it comes to Millar's UXM though, I'll admit I dig the first arc. It's nutty and stupid, but fun in places, and enjoyable enough.

After that, things get frightingly boring.


ICool action

Never liked any of the action scenes in UXM. Millar can do action; his Ultimates fights scenes are brilliantly choreographed, as was his work on Wolverine and Spider-Man. The guy can write action, but I didn't find it in UXM (Except, like I said, the first arc had some cool bits, like Cyclops blowing Quicksilver from the car with his optic blast).


excellent pencils,

I'm not a big fan of the Kubert brothers to begin with, but I thought some of the art in Return to Weapon X was downright awful. The art was spotty at best, generally not my cup of tea.


witty dialogues

Ech. Millar's dialogue was atrocious, and far from witty. I recall Jean bragging that Hank knew the "square root of a million"... is that supposed to be impressive? Every character talked the same, including Xavier and Magneto. I swear, every line was a one-liner or clever quip. Not a distinct personality in the bunch, I just hated it. It's honestly hard for me to believe it's the same guy that wrote such distinct and well balanced characters within The Ultimates.

Now, Brian K. Vaughan's run was just brilliant, which is funny because I avoided his trades for the longest time because I hated how thin each of the trades were, and I had never heard of the guy.

When I finally read his run, though, I was amazed at the insanely cool plot twists he created (Ultimate Longshot was great, Magnetic North was wonderfully crafted), the excellent villains (Ultimate Magneto was actually interesting for once!), the unique characters (He worked wonders with Dazzler), the clever dialogue (There were several laugh-out-loud moments for me), and finally, just the overall feel of the book-- It felt like a family of teenagers who loved each other, laughed together, and fought together (and each other on occasion).

Millar's run consisted of a team of commando's spouting one-liners and flexing their muscles. Snooze.

Controversial, maybe, but I loathed Millar's run and adored Vaughan's with a fiery passion (His two UXM hardcovers are two of my most read trades).

I enjoyed Bendis' run, as well, but mainly for 5 reasons: 1) The Wolvy/Spidey team up was a fluff piece of action that didn't belong in UXM, but it was undeniably fun, 2) The lovely one-shot with Wolvy being sent to kill the kid who discovers his powers for the first time, 3) The introduction of Angel issue, which was beautiful and wonderfully self-contained, and 4) The final battle with the Sentinel, which David Finch absolutely NAILED. Besides that, it's typical hit and miss Bendis, with occasional bits of great dialogue, and the rest being overlong, convulted conversation that he thinks sounds "real."

I do own the hardcover, the last reason being that it sets up Vaughan's run so well (A lesser writer would not have been able to balance the insane amount of new characters, concepts, and story threads that Bendis introduced, but BKV was brilliant in this capacity-- It's a shame Kirkman couldn't follow suit, Vaughan left absolute gold for him, but Kirkman has totally buried many of those great concepts. Ah well).

Well there ya go. :)

[NevamindU]

I thought Vaughs run was the best on the UX by far....Millar and Kirkman are like in the same league.....

[Nick MB]

I think I preferred both Bendis and Vaughan to Millar, but Millar wasn't bad. It annoyed me a bit that all Millar's characters spoke almost exactly the same. I know he has a distinctive dialogue style, but at least in Ultimates and other series you can tell the difference.
Aside from that, it was kinda fun. But a bit generic and never made that leap from entertaining to really great and memorable.

[stealthwise]

Millar had the standard ups and downs that come with trying something new and experimenting with a new status quo for characters that are... well, they're different, but still the same in a lot of ways.

The best writer was definitely BKV though, he captured that old school feel and managed to write some great tales though with lame characters like Sinister, Gambit, and Longshot.

[BizarroBeachHead]

I'm mostly in agreement with Foreigner, here

Millar's run was largely shock changes for the sake of change, with little substance beyond all the explosions; which I should point out is pretty much Millar's standard MO, so I can't say that it was disappointing in that respect.

Also, Kubert's designs contained an inordinate amount of soul patches and piercings.


BKV was the only one to actually write the characters as characters.


But what this really boils down to is this: Kirkman is the absolute worst addition to the book.

[geordiesteve]

Millar's run was entertaining, and pretty fun, but I did get the sense that it was a parody.

Kirkman is by far the worst, I read a couple of his and that was more than enough. Since then I've kept tabs on the series, as I'm a fan of X-men, and it sounds terrible. Also, sales have consistently declined, month on month since he started on the book in Jan 06. That tells you something if every single month, the numbers go down. He seems to be shedding about a 1,000 readers per month. Get him off the book!

[gravling]

any news yet about when kirkman's awful run is going to end?

whoever takes over from him is going to have to do so much cleaning up and retconning.

[Neptunicus]

Millar's run was entertaining, and pretty fun, but I did get the sense that it was a parody.

Kirkman is by far the worst, I read a couple of his and that was more than enough. Since then I've kept tabs on the series, as I'm a fan of X-men, and it sounds terrible. Also, sales have consistently declined, month on month since he started on the book in Jan 06. That tells you something if every single month, the numbers go down. He seems to be shedding about a 1,000 readers per month. Get him off the book!


Yeah check out the sales numbers:

02/02 #15 - 94,713
02/03 #29 - 84,789
02/04 #42 - 97,299
02/05 #56 - 83,720
=====
02/06 #67 - 72,700 ( -1.4%)
03/06 #68 - 72,765 ( +0.1%)
04/06 #69 - 73,188 ( +0.6%)
05/06 #70 - 72,235 ( -1.3%)
06/06 #71 - 71,314 ( -1.3%)
07/06 #72 - 70,593 ( -1.0%)
08/06 #73 - 70,153 ( -0.6%)
09/06 #74 - 68,874 ( -1.8%)
10/06 #75 - 73,837 ( +7.2%)
11/06 #76 - 69,054 ( -6.5%)
12/06 #77 - 67,338 ( -2.5%)
01/07 #78 - 66,409 ( -1.4%)
02/07 #79 - 64,363 ( -3.1%)
03/07 #80 - 63,000 ( -2.2%)

I really wish they would get rid of Kirkman ASAP and just completely retcon his run. I'm part of above negative percentage points....

[flapjaxx]

After Beast told his internet girlfriend (Who was actually Blob) that Magneto is alive I couldn't take the book serious anymore, that is probably while I don't mind most of the stuff that happen. For me its just 1 big parody.

Same here. I can't take ANY teenager stuff seriously, and I'm at a loss over why Marvel thought the mass audience that the Ultimate line was originally targeted at would have wanted to read stories about 16-year-olds either. That works every now and then, but why have all of your franchises be the equivalent of Gen 13? Kids already know enough about these characters to take them seriously: X-Men, F4, and even Spidey are looked at as more on the maturity level of The Matrix than on the level of Harry Potter. Can you imagine the reaction to news that a new GI Joe or Star Trek movie (just for random examples) would have the protagonists all be teenagers, hooking up randomly and frequently, and having internet girlfriends? That stuff doesn't fly...

Can you even imagine the current round of Marvel films all having teenage characters? Imagine the Harry Potter actors and actresses (however old they are now, whch is like mid-to-late teens, right?) in the roles of the X-Men, F4, or Spider-Man casts. There's no WAY that would have been successful, so why did Marvel want most of their Ultimate line to be the same age as the characters in Saved by the Bell?? (Yes I know the original '60s versions of Spidey and X-Men were teenagers, but that was a different time. These characters are already known by the general public as 18+ adults.)

You're right, though. Once you accept it as parody it's not bad. And I enjoyed Millar's and Vaughn's runs for what they were. Free for me to read in my local Borders/Starbucks.

[TheLazy]

Same here. I can't take ANY teenager stuff seriously, and I'm at a loss over why Marvel thought the mass audience that the Ultimate line was originally targeted at would have wanted to read stories about 16-year-olds either. That works every now and then, but why have all of your franchises be the equivalent of Gen 13? Kids already know enough about these characters to take them seriously: X-Men, F4, and even Spidey are looked at as more on the maturity level of The Matrix than on the level of Harry Potter. Can you imagine the reaction to news that a new GI Joe or Star Trek movie (just for random examples) would have the protagonists all be teenagers, hooking up randomly and frequently, and having internet girlfriends? That stuff doesn't fly...

Can you even imagine the current round of Marvel films all having teenage characters? Imagine the Harry Potter actors and actresses (however old they are now, whch is like mid-to-late teens, right?) in the roles of the X-Men, F4, or Spider-Man casts. There's no WAY that would have been successful, so why did Marvel want most of their Ultimate line to be the same age as the characters in Saved by the Bell?? (Yes I know the original '60s versions of Spidey and X-Men were teenagers, but that was a different time. These characters are already known by the general public as 18+ adults.)

You're right, though. Once you accept it as parody it's not bad. And I enjoyed Millar's and Vaughn's runs for what they were. Free for me to read in my local Borders/Starbucks.

I don't actually mind that the characters are teens, as long as its going somewhere, which I expect to happen in the not to distant future. with this line marvel has a chance to let the characters age propperly, and develop in a way that their 616 counter parts cant because of the franchises around them.

BTW, I dropped UXM before Kirkman even got there. I couldnt stand the direction that BKV was taking with the book. I don't know if it was an editorial mandate or whatnot, but he was introducing too many characters way too soon.

:)

[desanth]

I don't think Millar was bad, but I can't stand Kirkman, I've dropped uxm due to him although I keep my tabs on what happens.

[The Foreigner]

I don't know if it was an editorial mandate or whatnot, but he was introducing too many characters way too soon.

Eh; I never really understood this complaint.

In 33 issues, Millar introduced Cyclops, Xavier, Storm, Collossus, Jean Gray, Beast, Iceman, Magneto, Wolverine, Sentinels, Quiksilver, Scarlet Witch, Toad, Blob, Mastermind, Nightcrawler, Nick Fury, Juggernaut, Rogue, Sabretooth, Moira McTaggert, Proteus, Psylocke, Kitty Pryde, and Sebastian Shaw.

In 20 issues, Vaughan introduced Sinister, Apocalypse (Sorta), Mojo, Longshot, Spiral, Arcade, Fenris, Deathstrike, Sunspot, Northstar, Cannonball, Mystique, and Forge.

Frankly, I don't see why everyone was up in arms over Vaughan's supposed over-abundance of ultimazations.

[Canemacar]

Millar gets a pass since he had to establish the players of the comic with most of the people you listed.

[Xany Kaos]

Eh; I never really understood this complaint.

In 33 issues, Millar introduced Cyclops, Xavier, Storm, Collossus, Jean Gray, Beast, Iceman, Magneto, Wolverine, Sentinels, Quiksilver, Scarlet Witch, Toad, Blob, Mastermind, Nightcrawler, Nick Fury, Juggernaut, Rogue, Sabretooth, Moira McTaggert, Proteus, Psylocke, Kitty Pryde, and Sebastian Shaw.

In 20 issues, Vaughan introduced Sinister, Apocalypse (Sorta), Mojo, Longshot, Spiral, Arcade, Fenris, Deathstrike, Sunspot, Northstar, Cannonball, Mystique, and Forge.

Frankly, I don't see why everyone was up in arms over Vaughan's supposed over-abundance of ultimazations.

Probably because at a certain point, it should sorta top out. You need to introduce the main players early on. Millar introducing all those characters in his run was him laying down the story. After awhile, things get kind of...choked.
I mean, look at 616 X-men. It's flooded, even after the whole M-Day thing. Stories do better if you can focus on specific characters, and adding more and more to the mix just muddies things up.
There's a difference between adding characters because it adds to the story and adding characters for the sake of adding characters.

[BizarroBeachHead]

There's also a difference between writing the characters AS characters and writing the characters as one liner dispensers.

BKV may have introduced a lot of characters, but he knew how to write them.

[Canemacar]

There's also a difference between writing the characters AS characters and writing the characters as one liner dispensers.

BKV may have introduced a lot of characters, but he knew how to write them.

Thats debatable.

[mattx110]

they're teens because the original idea was to get kids back to reading comics.

you're not the target audience, it just sorta worked out that way.
and i think it's too much like a regular x-book. people want something that feels special.
it's still going pretty good though. over 60,000 isn't bad at all.
but it doesn't feel special...

[Omega Alpha]

they're teens because the original idea was to get kids back to reading comics.

you're not the target audience, it just sorta worked out that way.
and i think it's too much like a regular x-book. people want something that feels special.
it's still going pretty good though. over 60,000 isn't bad at all.
but it doesn't feel special...

60,000 is not good for this book. It sold over 100,000 copies in the past, and sales are dropping in every issue ever since Kirkman took over.

[The Foreigner]

Probably because at a certain point, it should sorta top out. You need to introduce the main players early on. Millar introducing all those characters in his run was him laying down the story. After awhile, things get kind of...choked.
I mean, look at 616 X-men. It's flooded, even after the whole M-Day thing. Stories do better if you can focus on specific characters, and adding more and more to the mix just muddies things up.
There's a difference between adding characters because it adds to the story and adding characters for the sake of adding characters.

I'd hardly consider half of the characters Millar introduced "main players." He killed off Proteus, Sebastian Shaw, and Sabretooth, and introduced quite a few others as almost throw away parts (Specifically, Juggernaut, who is one of the most boring ultimazations yet).

If anyone was adding characters for the sake of adding characters, it was Millar.