Why hasn't Daredevil ever sold more than it has?

[[]D[]/\/\[]D @ Nite/So-tite]

I'm confused... Throughout most of it's lifespan, the book has had numerous of either big-name/superstar or, at least, continuously well-reviewed talent. In addition, it's had a good number of critically-acclaimed runs. Also, out of all of the Marvel ongoings, the book has been regarded as one of the most consistently written since its inception.

Yet, none of this has resulted in higher sales. How come Daredevil has never been a top-selling book?

[Jake V]

D[]/\/\[]D @ Nite/So-tite;4702399']I'm confused... Throughout most of it's lifespan, the book has had numerous of either big-name/superstar or, at least, continuously well-reviewed talent. In addition, it's had a good number of critically-acclaimed runs. Also, out of all of the Marvel ongoings, the book has been regarded as one of the most consistently written since its inception.

Yet, none of this has resulted in higher sales. How come Daredevil has never been a top-selling book?

He's a serious vigilante that isn't Batman.

The limitations of his powers limit the kind of stories that can be told about him to mostly low-level super-crime and street-based organized crime.

His personality limits the light-heartedness and "fun" that a character like Spider-Man brings.

Historically, gritty street level comics don't have mass appeal.


Don't get me wrong, I think DD is a great character, but he's never gonna be the face of any company or the centerpiece of a universe-spanning saga. He's not gonna save the world from a mutant apocalypse or defeat an invasion from another dimension.

But really, being a mid to upper level superhero aint all that bad. Beats being Darkhawk.

[a-spidey]

i wonder what would happen when they get a superstar artist on the book for a run. Don't know Jim Lee or Michael Turner or David Finch would be great. Really liked his art for Moon Knight. I guess it would push the sales at least for that period.

[kitamu re]

I'm confused... Throughout most of it's lifespan, the book has had numerous of either big-name/superstar or, at least, continuously well-reviewed talent. In addition, it's had a good number of critically-acclaimed runs. Also, out of all of the Marvel ongoings, the book has been regarded as one of the most consistently written since its inception.

Yet, none of this has resulted in higher sales. How come Daredevil has never been a top-selling book?

dd was a top ten book when queseda and smith were on it:rolleyes:

[Lanowar]

It's because Daredevil is a very distinct book it's a crime thriller but with gritty superheroes. Spider-Man when he has shown up is never happy go lucky his humour seemed to morph in order to fit the mood of the book. If you like crime thriller and that dark undertone of the Marvel U you'll like this book. Bendis run was totally different to how Bendis writes most of his other books and Bruebaker taking it over was a perfect match to fit his writing talents.

If you read "Daredevil Vs Punisher" the Daredevil in that book is a different breed to the one in his own solo series. I think why it has'nt sold extremely well is a mixture of the type of book it is also the fact it's Daredevil and some people won't think of Daredevil as he is in this book but just that blind dude.

[vazel]

I thought Daredevil was a good selling book?

Edit: Found this site, Daredevil was #41 in sales for February(46,765 issues). Suppose that's not 'top-selling' but still good. http://www.cbgxtra.com/Default.aspx?tabid=1974

[Lanowar]

I thought Daredevil was a good selling book?

Edit: Found this site, Daredevil was #41 in sales for February(46,765 issues). Suppose that's not 'top-selling' but still good. http://www.cbgxtra.com/Default.aspx?tabid=1974

I think the poster means how come a book that has great critical success been around for so long without a massive dive in content has never had that big sales wise. Unless I'm mistaken thats what we're talking about.

[Frank]

noir doesn't sell

To turn this around, It would need to turn it into an adventure book for a while and get a hot artist to draw it. Remember when Jim Lee used to draw ninjas in the pages of X-Men in WWII? I could this happening that would make this book and character a best-seller.

[vazel]

I think the poster means how come a book that has great critical success been around for so long without a massive dive in content has never had that big sales wise. Unless I'm mistaken thats what we're talking about.
dd was a top ten book when queseda and smith were on it:rolleyes:
Well if this is true then it has had huge sales.

I don't see why you people are trying to turn Daredevil into an underdog comic. That Daredevil is still doing so good so many issues in is great for a comic book. Most comic books never do as good as the initial issues where they then go through a gradual decline until they are finally cancelled and replaced by new comic book series. I'm just happy Daredevil has joined the likes of other characters that are ensured due to their popularity that they will have an endless run. Can't say the same for Moon Knight which I'm sure will end one day(then a few years later be restarted in a new series).

[chrismileslord]

Daredevil is the best written book out right now. And I love the art. I wuoldn't change a thing, and the reason I think it doesn't sell is a lot of people don't give it a chance. At least that is the case at my LCS. Daredevil is my favorite character and I love the way he is written.

[Karl O'Neill]

manhunter is well-written too, but sells nothing, maybe 17 k,

Daredevil is well written and is a cool. well-known hero, i guess spiderman/ hulk and xmen are just that much more important to marvel,

it's a travesty when the best books don't shift the numbers, but as they say it is the bigger books that allows for the smaller books to come out.

[Katerine]

On the Marvel.com boards, every single time somebody asks for comic recommendations, Daredevil always comes up as a recommendation. Always. Often by several people. I don't think that's true of any other comic. If that's not popularity, I don't know what is.

[Lanowar]

On the Marvel.com boards, every single time somebody asks for comic recommendations, Daredevil always comes up as a recommendation. Always. Often by several people. I don't think that's true of any other comic. If that's not popularity, I don't know what is.

That that’s Critical successes the point people are asking is how come that it isn’t economic successful more so then say Amazing Spider-Man or the X-Men

[vazel]

Because those other characters are the archetypes. The original gangstas.

[Omega Alpha]

All the reasons Jake V gave are true. Plus, the book is mostly detached from the rest of the MU regardless of who is writing. Also have in mind that, except for Spider-Man and Wolverine's books, Marvel's solos usually are not among the top selling titles, even when they sell very well. Cap. America, Iron Man or Hulk only are among the top-selling if they are tie-ins to crossovers or have huge events going on, and the other ones sell even less.

[Karl O'Neill]

On the Marvel.com boards, every single time somebody asks for comic recommendations, Daredevil always comes up as a recommendation. Always. Often by several people. I don't think that's true of any other comic. If that's not popularity, I don't know what is.

You do realise only a small portion of people are online don't you?

If 52 sells 100k copies in one week, i bet you will only see over a thousand relies to the particular thread for an issue review, most comic book fans just buy the comics, in fact you need more people to start going on line to check out whats hot and whats not, but as i have said, most people just buy what they like besides what someone tells them, example-my mate will buy x-men no matter what crap mike carey will write.

[Neptunicus]

On the Marvel.com boards, every single time somebody asks for comic recommendations, Daredevil always comes up as a recommendation. Always. Often by several people. I don't think that's true of any other comic. If that's not popularity, I don't know what is.

From a perspective of someone who has never really gotten DD even though I feel like I've tried...For example I liked Frank Miller's stint drawing and DD Yellow but that was mainly due to the art. I read The Born Again story line on people recommendations and it just didn't really do much for me. Please don't pile on me for saying this - but some of the storylines seemed a bit soap opera-ish. But obviously that is just my opinion - the book does work for a lot of people and it is very critically acclaimed so maybe that says more about my taste than anything.

Maybe I need to read some more of the Brubaker issues.

[Karl O'Neill]

From a perspective of someone who has never really gotten DD even though I feel like I've tried...For example I liked Frank Miller's stint drawing and DD Yellow but that was mainly due to the art. I read The Born Again story line on people recommendations and it just didn't really do much for me. Please don't pile on me for saying this - but some of the storylines seemed a bit soap opera-ish. But obviously that is just my opinion - the book does work for a lot of people and it is very critically acclaimed so maybe that says more about my taste than anything.

Maybe I need to read some more of the Brubaker issues.

Brubaker is a great writer and he seems to be doing a fab job cleaning uo bendis's identity thingy for matt.

Is it true Brubaker left Dc disgruntled?

[Katerine]

From a perspective of someone who has never really gotten DD even though I feel like I've tried...For example I liked Frank Miller's stint drawing and DD Yellow but that was mainly due to the art. I read The Born Again story line on people recommendations and it just didn't really do much for me. Please don't pile on me for saying this - but some of the storylines seemed a bit soap opera-ish. But obviously that is just my opinion - the book does work for a lot of people and it is very critically acclaimed so maybe that says more about my taste than anything.

Maybe I need to read some more of the Brubaker issues.

I've long been of the opinion that how much a given person will like a story, character, or writer is directly proportional to how much we identify with them.

I love DD because I know, through intimate experience, exactly how much pain and confusion he's going through, and, somewhat due to the quality of Miller's, Bendis's, and Brubacker's writing, I can really identify with him. He's real to me. And I admire his courage, his convictions, and his attempts to make life better for everybody else, all the more, because of that.

I can definitely see, though, how somebody who's never experienced depression, or experienced the feeling that you're barely holding your life together, wouldn't get much out of the DD comic. Just like young children reading USM would probably enjoy it, but not quite as much as somebody who's experienced the joys of adolescence, and therefore knows exactly what Peter's going through.

[Neptunicus]

I've long been of the opinion that how much a given person will like a story, character, or writer is directly proportional to how much we identify with them.

I love DD because I know, through intimate experience, exactly how much pain and confusion he's going through, and, somewhat due to the quality of Miller's, Bendis's, and Brubacker's writing, I can really identify with him. He's real to me. And I admire his courage, his convictions, and his attempts to make life better for everybody else, all the more, because of that.

I can definitely see, though, how somebody who's never experienced depression, or experienced the feeling that you're barely holding your life together, wouldn't get much out of the DD comic. Just like young children reading USM would probably enjoy it, but not quite as much as somebody who's experienced the joys of adolescence, and therefore knows exactly what Peter's going through.

There is definetly that aspect of it and - It sounds like reading DD is a bit of a cathartic experience for you. For me at least - one of the reasons I read comics is for escapism. There is also a certain aspect of melodrama and voyeurism to the Born Again story that didn't click with me. Different strokes for different folks I guess.

[chrismileslord]

I've long been of the opinion that how much a given person will like a story, character, or writer is directly proportional to how much we identify with them.

I love DD because I know, through intimate experience, exactly how much pain and confusion he's going through, and, somewhat due to the quality of Miller's, Bendis's, and Brubacker's writing, I can really identify with him. He's real to me. And I admire his courage, his convictions, and his attempts to make life better for everybody else, all the more, because of that.

I can definitely see, though, how somebody who's never experienced depression, or experienced the feeling that you're barely holding your life together, wouldn't get much out of the DD comic. Just like young children reading USM would probably enjoy it, but not quite as much as somebody who's experienced the joys of adolescence, and therefore knows exactly what Peter's going through.

Yes! For the Win! my thoughts exactly

[phantom1592]

Before I get mobbed, I just want to say Daredevil is by far my favorite Marvel character.

That out of the way.... The reason that I don't think he ever made it "big" (though the last 5-8 years has changed that quite a bit) is that he is always being written out of character. The reason for that, is that he HAS NO CHARACTER. He has had every personality from fun loving- joke cracking Spiderman-clone, to grim and gritty. He's been forgiving and willing to give second chances to criminals, and he's been Vengence personified.

It isn't even a case of growth either. He didn't start fun and grow dark... Every once in a while he swings back to light hearted again. All this really acomplishes is that everytime someone reads the character, the first thing they say, is "that's not Daredevil. This guy doesn't know what he's doing." Heaven knows I've done it too. Brubaker is the best I've seen in years, but even he has had Matt do some questionable things, but he always redeems him in just the knick of time and gets me cheering :)

For example TOO ME.... Daredevil would not stop caring about people and descend into violence in prison, which Ed had Punisher show us that Matt REALLY did Care, even if he didn't know it himself. Also, in the last issue when he decided he didn't need the press and Gladiator was on his own. Matt would NEVER let an innocent man rot because of fear of press. Which he changed his mind and showed his true heroism. Thanks Ed :)

Is daredevil a Superhero?

Is he Crime Noir?

Is he a ninja?

Every writer has a vastly different opinion, and THAT holds the character back. Spiderman, Hulk, Captain America.... None of them have the.... fluid character that DD has.

I will say that since the Kevin Smith Relaunch, Daredevil got a major push in the public eye. The best way to judge a characters popularity is to look at random merchandise. Every time they come out with plaques or marvel Group pictures or a new line of toys, Daredevil is in them now. He's in no way the top 5, but he is getting included.

[StoneGold]

Because Brubaker hasn't tried to actually kill him yet?


Hey, did wonders for Cap's book. From decent seller to top book of the month with one single issue.

[Omega Alpha]

That out of the way.... The reason that I don't think he ever made it "big" (though the last 5-8 years has changed that quite a bit) is that he is always being written out of character. The reason for that, is that he HAS NO CHARACTER. He has had every personality from fun loving- joke cracking Spiderman-clone, to grim and gritty. He's been forgiving and willing to give second chances to criminals, and he's been Vengence personified.

He was a Spider-man clone in the beginning, but critizing them for changing so much is like complain about every single Silver Age women passing to weak and damsel in distress to strong and powerful.



It isn't even a case of growth either. He didn't start fun and grow dark... Every once in a while he swings back to light hearted again. All this really acomplishes is that everytime someone reads the character, the first thing they say, is "that's not Daredevil. This guy doesn't know what he's doing." Heaven knows I've done it too. Brubaker is the best I've seen in years, but even he has had Matt do some questionable things, but he always redeems him in just the knick of time and gets me cheering :)

For example TOO ME.... Daredevil would not stop caring about people and descend into violence in prison, which Ed had Punisher show us that Matt REALLY did Care, even if he didn't know it himself. Also, in the last issue when he decided he didn't need the press and Gladiator was on his own. Matt would NEVER let an innocent man rot because of fear of press. Which he changed his mind and showed his true heroism. Thanks Ed :)


Now i just don't know what you're talking about.


Is daredevil a Superhero?

Is he Crime Noir?

Is he a ninja?

Every writer has a vastly different opinion, and THAT holds the character back. Spiderman, Hulk, Captain America.... None of them have the.... fluid character that DD has.



Daredevil is a supehero with ninja skills and his book has a noir style. It has been that way ever since Miller.

And if you're talking about character changes, Cap. America goes to slave of the government to leader of a rebellion against it to independent but still supportive of it and changes his mind every time the current writer of the book has a poltical statement to make and uses him as a political metaphor. Hulk has been a hero, a monster, a monster and a hero, green, grey, green and grey, he and Banner on the same body, in different bodies, being completely separated, sharing the same body, being only one and the same, been child-like, Savage, Professor Hulk, Joe Fixit, and so on.

[phantom1592]

SEE! I knew I'd get mobbed ;)



He was a Spider-man clone in the beginning, but critizing them for changing so much is like complain about every single Silver Age women passing to weak and damsel in distress to strong and powerful.




Now i just don't know what you're talking about.




As I said, He didn't just grow. He changes with each writer. After the black armor he swung back into pure scarlet swashbuckler. Wisecracking and as far for Noir as you can get. It brought back the "daredevil" into his character. Someone who does a backflip off a bridge and laughs all the way down. It also focused heavily on the Lawyer aspect (which many writers tend to ignore) and introduced great supporting characters like Rosalind Sharpe.




Daredevil is a supehero with ninja skills and his book has a noir style. It has been that way ever since Miller.

And if you're talking about character changes, Cap. America goes to slave of the government to leader of a rebellion against it to independent but still supportive of it and changes his mind every time the current writer of the book has a poltical statement to make and uses him as a political metaphor. Hulk has been a hero, a monster, a monster and a hero, green, grey, green and grey, he and Banner on the same body, in different bodies, being completely separated, sharing the same body, being only one and the same, been child-like, Savage, Professor Hulk, Joe Fixit, and so on.

Ahhhh.... but a lot of people don't WANT him to be a superhero. Superheroes require Super VILLIANS, and those are considered "wrong" for Daredevil. Personally I love his rogues gallery.

Captain America has always been the Sentinel of Liberty. His.... uses may change a little, but (outside of Civil War) his appearances are rarely blasphemous to the character Ideal. Same with Hulk. He is the monster half of Banner and the strongest one there is. Hulk actually developed as he grew too, mostly due to Peter David. His changes are part of a continuing story.

[Mississippienne]

As for Matt's swinging back and forth between being happy-go-lucky and grim, a friend of mine is firmly of the opinion that Matt is bipolar, and I have to say I agree with her. Every so often he'll have a breakdown, wallow in feelings of hopelessness, anger, and guilt, and isolate himself from his friends. Then he'll swing the opposite direction, become extremely energetic and acting recklessly. This is all classic bipolar behavior. When he's on an "Up" he'll do things like marry Milla impulsively; when he swings into a "Down" he becomes angry and combative even with people he should trust.

Daredevil is probably my single favorite hero, because he's such a complicated character.

[ultramandingo]

i guess dont help that bru kept him out of the civil war nonsense - thats why im still reading it . get pym to do a dd clone ! kids love that stuff!

[Katerine]

As for Matt's swinging back and forth between being happy-go-lucky and grim, a friend of mine is firmly of the opinion that Matt is bipolar, and I have to say I agree with her. Every so often he'll have a breakdown, wallow in feelings of hopelessness, anger, and guilt, and isolate himself from his friends. Then he'll swing the opposite direction, become extremely energetic and acting recklessly. This is all classic bipolar behavior. When he's on an "Up" he'll do things like marry Milla impulsively; when he swings into a "Down" he becomes angry and combative even with people he should trust.

Daredevil is probably my single favorite hero, because he's such a complicated character.

I've often thought that myself, and I certainly can't think of anything that would discount the "bipolar" theory, but, AFAIK, there also isn't anything to prove it - at least, not exclusively. That is, there are other possible explanations for his behavior.

In particular, in addition to bipolar disorder, his behavior could also simply indicate severe PTSD. Which we all know he has. Because he's lived this horrific, traumatic, painful life, every day (and that's not counting the really nightmarish days), his emotional state is naturally intense, turbulant, and confused.

Personally, I'm still waiting for some kind of follow-up to that confrontation with Bullseye right before Matt declared himself the Kingpin. That's when it happened. That's when he snapped - during that confrontation with Bullseye, and afterward, when Milla thanked Matt for saving her (from Bullseye).

And now, he appears to have completely forgotten the entire incident. Except that he did get married to Milla - the one person he was able to save from Bullseye.

[Billy]

I just recently got into Daredevil, but it was bloody hard. Bendis and Ed Brubaker's run are really hard to get into, I felt I had to read from the beginning of Bendis's Run, to understand anything. I don't think its very reader friendly. And Matt seems like a Jerk, with not much of a personality?? I find I like him more the more a read him.

I think he isn't as popular, cause he is hard to define. I don't think his very likable either.

[chrismileslord]

I started reading daredevil right before he went to jail because a friend told me to. Instantly loved it. Went back and bought/read all the trades since book rebooted. And there hasn't been as issue I haven't completely loved. I am about to buy the Frank Miller Omnibus, I have read a bit of it and it's simply amazing. Daredevil replaced Spiderman and Captain America as my favorite character.

[StoneGold]

Because DD, before Marvel Knights, was only really good for the most part when Miller was writing (although with a few exceptions), and post MK, the book has a tendency to be pretty complicated. It's rewarding if you are willing to work at it a little bit, but the book ain't Marvel Two in One.

[phantom1592]

i guess dont help that bru kept him out of the civil war nonsense -

Ahhh, but DID he keep him out? Think about it. At no time do they SAY who is DD in that story.

Yes everyone knows that it HAD to be Iron Fist.... but five years from now there won't be anyone who remembers that Civil War happened at the exact time as Devil in Cell BlockD.

They were Vague enough that when you go back and read it, it IS Daredevil. And he had a lot more to do than in any OTHER crossover Marvel has done. Think about it. Secret Wars he wasn't in. Secret Wars II he had a crossover, but I don't remember him in the main story. Heck Infinity Gauntlet he was in teh half that started DEAD. Civil War had Daredevil up front in all the battles.

[Mississippienne]

Because DD, before Marvel Knights, was only really good for the most part when Miller was writing (although with a few exceptions), and post MK, the book has a tendency to be pretty complicated. It's rewarding if you are willing to work at it a little bit, but the book ain't Marvel Two in One.

I don't know if I'd say that! Daredevil's probably had some of the most consistently excellent writing of any series since its inception (of course there are black spots, but that's true for most titles). His early run under Stan Lee introduced some of his classic villains, including Killgrave and the Owl, and of course #7 has his classic clash with Namor the Submariner. Roy Thomas and Gene Colan also had a good run, as did O'Neill. Frank Miller is of course also synonomous with DD to this day, but Nocenti's run is also awesome, with the mayhem of Typhoid Mary and Nocenti's knack for writing stories about morality, politics, and social issues (which can verge on preachy, but hey, at least she was trying). Kevin Smith's Guardian Devil was a great kickoff to the relaunch, and then Bendis came in to do what's probably his best work. Now, of course, Brubaker's run is highly recommended by almost everyone, with good reason.

[sabongero]

It's a shame. Daredevil is still mainly "dissed" by the comic book reading population. He has been written well, and had his defining moments written under Frank Miller's tenure which made Frank Miller a superstar with his then revolutionary storytelling in comic books. At the current Daredevil issues he is handled by Eisner nominated Ed Brubaker who has just hit the superstar status recently (and currently my favorite Marvel writer and perhaps all around Comic book writer). And prior to Brubaker, Daredevil was handled by Eisner winner Bendis.

I think it all boils down to the fans viewing Daredevil as Marvel's version of Batman. The monicker "Man without fear" is used with Batman and their guises are used to scare their opponents. Unfortunately for Daredevil, Batman was the second superhero to be introduced in the American public almost 25 years before he showed up. And there are a lot of Batman reading fans who just won't pick up a Daredevil comic because they think that Daredevil is just a carbon copy.

You always here and read about Frank Miller's Dark Knight Returns as a revolutionary comic book and that it partnered with The Watchmen are what brought the comic books to where they are right now.

But it was already being done earlier than Watchmen and Dark Knight by Frank Miller in Daredevil.

[Maestro]

If Daredevil had a cartoon he would be more popular and have a built-in fanbase. Unfortunately people mostly know him through that lame movie

[tavella]

If you look at the month to month sales, Daredevil is the most consistently selling solo hero apart from the big two (Spider-man and Wolverine.) So reverse your question, really; why does it sell as much as it does?

[rick]

I've been reading Daredevil since Wally Wood was drawing it and despite the ups and downs in storytelling and characterization, the book has never once been cancelled.

So to be honest I'm not quite sure how a book that has been published on a normal schedule (although with its fair share of re-numbering) for more then 40 years can possibly not be considered a good seller.