Jack Chick in Prison!

[Typo Lad]

Well, sort of...

Muslims in Rockland County have called for the dismissal of a jail chaplain who distributed anti-Islam booklets with derogatory depictions of the Prophet Muhammad.

Azra Fasihuddin, a West Nyack resident and a member of the Islamic Center of Rockland, said the congregation was infuriated to learn that Teresa Darden Clapp, an ordained Christian minister, was put on paid suspension last week for distributing the booklets.

"We are very upset about these false allegations against our religion,'' Fasihuddin told the Journal News in Tuesday editions. She said Clapp should be fired.

"She should be let go. And why is she being paid while she is suspended?''

The religious booklets characterize Muslims as worshipping an "idol'' and devil called Allah, and the prophet Muhammad as a criminal and a "religious dictator.'' Allah is the Arabic word for God, and Muslims believe they worship the same God as Christians and Jews.

Rockland County Sheriff James Kralik said Clapp was placed on paid suspension last Thursday, and that the incident remained under investigation. He said questions remained as to Clapp's intent in distributing the materials. "As we learn more about it and gain a better understanding of it, we will change as necessary,'' he told the Journal News.

Mohammed Ziaullah, an official at the Islamic Center, also criticized the paid suspension. "That's not a type of punishment,'' he said. "That's a vacation.''

Kralik said he would meet with officials of the Islamic Center of Rockland on Tuesday.

Clapp's phone number was not in service Monday, the Journal News said. She was not at home and did not respond to messages left there.

It was not clear how many booklets were distributed. Jail officials said they learned about them after an inmate complained about two weeks ago.

In the cartoon panel stories, a tract titled "Men of Peace?'' says Islamic fundamentalists who commit terrorist acts are not "bad Muslims'' but "very good Muslims'' who act in accordance with their religion. Another tract, titled "Allah Has No Son,'' says Allah is not God, Muhammad was no prophet and the Qur'an, the Muslim holy book, is not the word of God.

Both stories end with people being convinced that Islam is false. In one ending, a Muslim is contrite on learning he is worshipping a false idol and converts to Christianity.

The Journal News said the booklets were from Chick Publications, a company that produces gospel tracts and other media to advocate Christianity and condemn religions it deems false, including Islam and Roman Catholicism.

Wild. I can't believe she did that.

I also think she should not be paid while suspended.

[Daniel Lewis]

The religious booklets characterize Muslims as worshipping an "idol'' and devil called Allah, and the prophet Muhammad as a criminal and a "religious dictator.''

We are very upset about these false allegations against our religion..."

If it waddles like a duck, and quacks like a duck...

[Typo Lad]

Speaking as an Orthodox Jew, I find your post offensive.

[FunkyGreenJerusalem]

Typo, that title got me so excited. I was giddy thinking about what he could have done, or said in one of his comics.
I'm more annoyed at the idea of anyone paid by the state handing out any form of religious propaganda than that one in particular (or one that slags another religion), as all religions believe the others are false.


If it waddles like a duck, and quacks like a duck...

So is this the part where I launch into a rabid attack on someone acting like Christianity is the best acting religion out there, starting with a brief trip recant of history, a quick swing by killing workers at abortion clinics before calling you a complete and utter hypocrite?

No, I can't be bothered either.
Just don't post such dribble here man, we don't like it/want it/need it.
It's offensive and ill-informed, and likely to start the same flame war we have in several other threads.

[Gingold]

And here I was ready to print the "Free Jack Chick" t-shits. The woman should have been suspended without pay at a minimum.

[FunkyGreenJerusalem]

And here I was ready to print the "Free Jack Chick" t-shits.

Man, now I can't wait for the first person to do a Chick styled comic about how you shouldn't hand out Chick tracts in prison, or even a 'how to hand out chick tracts without getting caught' tract.

[Typo Lad]

Question: What's Jack's opinion on lady ministers?

[FunkyGreenJerusalem]

Question: What's Jack's opinion on lady ministers?

While looking for the answer I found a tract that is apparetnly great for truckers and bikers here. (http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/0086/0086_01.asp) I get the vibe that the person who wrote that has never me a trrucker or a biker. And this anti-abortion one (http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/1009/1009_01.asp) blew my mind (turns abortionists and those who get them all have big evil grins).
Also I must love the Jews (http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/1000/1000_01.asp) not because they're people and I should love everyone, but because if I don't the lord will work in mysterious ways against me. (what deep trouble is England in by the way?)
Theres also an article (http://www.chick.com/reading/books/204/0204_10.asp) on why D&D is the work of the devil (with different reasons than you may expect).

But I couldn't find an answer on the site.

[Ed Cunard]

Seriously, people--where are your priorities?

When you think about it, Jack Chick is probably the best advocate for the medium of comics. His comics are probably more widely-read than any other comic out there. They're distributed freely, they're short, accessible, and require no knowledge of prior continuity to get people into their message. They're illustrated fairly well, and they're simple enough. Can't we look past what many might consider to be his apparant craziness to see all the good he's done for comics?

I mean, seriously--what's more important? Being good, decent human beings, or spreading the love of comics by force?

God, people. I thought I knew you.

[FunkyGreenJerusalem]

Seriously, people--where are your priorities?

When you think about it, Jack Chick is probably the best advocate for the medium of comics. His comics are probably more widely-read than any other comic out there. They're distributed freely, they're short, accessible, and require no knowledge of prior continuity to get people into their message. They're illustrated fairly well, and they're simple enough. Can't we look past what many might consider to be his apparant craziness to see all the good he's done for comics?

I mean, seriously--what's more important? Being good, decent human beings, or spreading the love of comics by force?

God, people. I thought I knew you.

It's true - look at this one. (http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/0098/0098_01.asp)
Note how he contrasts and compliments the discussion the robber and the man have over breakfast with the fighting of the animals outside.
Note how when the robber has the gun to the back of the christians head, we get a comical scene of a kid throwing away toys outside, whilst they discuss what you will gain in heaven on the inside.
He knows the art like no other.

Alternatively, you could say that after 50 years of doing it he really should be a bit better, but if you say that, you're probablly going to hell anyway.

[Matt Algren]

Something I didn't expect to learn today: Jack Chick has a blog (http://www.chickcomics.blogspot.com/). It's pretty much what you'd expect.

[Typo Lad]

Y'know, I think I'll read that at HOME.

[Dreadstar]

I also think she should not be paid while suspended.

I can understand that. However, the reasoning is the same as the idea of innocent until proven guilty in our justice system.

I don't have a problem with that.

[Typo Lad]

Well, if they suspended her without proof, then that would be wrong to begin with.

I'm against paid suspensions of any kind, really.

[Dreadstar]

I'd still prefer a definitive conclusion rather than a mistake being made.

Sorry if I disagree with you.

[Typo Lad]

It's terrible of you to do so and you will be punished shortly.

Seriously though, I am interested in seeing how this plays out.

In other news, how sad is it that when I got to the fifth graph, I right away thought "must be a Chick tract"?

[Wesley Dodds]

I liked the tag on Chick's blog -- very dry.

Chickcomics.com welcomes all opinions from any religion or viewpoint in the common appreciation of Chick tracts. You don't have to agree with them or each other, but who doesn't enjoy fun comics? (Sorry, no beheadings are currently allowed.)

Chick's problem is that he thinks his religion explains everything. Bewitched? Abortion? Islam? Dungeons & Dragons? All part of the same plot.

Anyway, my favourite Chick parody:

http://rockstarramblings.blogspot.com/2006/03/image-dogtoring-1-christians-crusades.html

[Matt Algren]

Anyway, my favourite Chick parody:

http://rockstarramblings.blogspot.com/2006/03/image-dogtoring-1-christians-crusades.html
Awesome. My favorite:

http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/1088/1979/1600/CnC14.jpg

[rick]

Excuse me, but I seem to recall something called the Constitution.

And if I recall this constitution correctly there is this odd little amendment on it that guaranties both freedom to choose your religion as well as the right to talk about it.

One of the odd things about this is that if your religion doesn’t approve of other religious faiths you have every right to preach as such.

Islam, as well as the Catholic church and several other faiths I can think of teach us that if you don’t follow their own particular version of their faith that our souls are condemned to eternal damnation. They also teach that other faiths were created by evil men and demons to lead others down the path of doom.

Chicks preaching is certainly extreme, and it certainly strongly pushes the idea that if you don’t walk the “right” path that you are also going to end up burning for eternity. But in the end the only true difference between Chick and Islam or Chick and the Catholic church is that he is a small time preacher who uses comics to push his views, and they are huge mainstream religions.

They are all equally as accepting of different beliefs as the others, which is of course not at all.

[Spackling Compound]

Islam, as well as the Catholic church and several other faiths I can think of teach us that if you don’t follow their own particular version of their faith that our souls are condemned to eternal damnation. They also teach that other faiths were created by evil men and demons to lead others down the path of doom.



I think that's too general. As a Catholic, I disagree with 100% of what you said about the Catholic faith.

[Typo Lad]

I think preaching at people who are a captive audiance (no pun intended) is bad.

[rick]

I think preaching at people who are a captive audiance (no pun intended) is bad.


And yet almost every religion I can think of actively promotes prison outreach programs.

[Typo Lad]

And yet almost every religion I can think of actively promotes prison outreach programs.
There are Jewish Prison outreach groups? Really?

I do know there are an insane amount of self-described Orthodox Jews in the NY prison system, so I guess that's not unimaginable. I've just never heard of it.

Still, I would say that Chick tracts blur a fine line between preaching and hate speach.

[rick]

I think that's too general. As a Catholic, I disagree with 100% of what you said about the Catholic faith.

Spack, if I am not mistaken aren't there several sacraments that you as a Catholic must fulfill to reach paradise in the afterlife?

In fact I know there are.

And isn’t it true that without the “grace” these sacraments bestow the church teaches that you face at the very least eons in purgatory and in the worst situations, eternity in Hell?

So, sure you can 100% disagree, but that doesn’t change what the Catholic church teaches.

[Spackling Compound]

Spack, if I am not mistaken aren't there several sacraments that you as a Catholic must fulfill to reach paradise in the afterlife?
Baptism is the only one necessary for salvation thus making it possible for non-Catholic Christians to be open to salvation. Then there is Baptism by desire, which includes devout Jews and non Christians who live according to the God of Abraham's commands.
The other sacraments are a "help" to salvation.


In fact I know there are.
Oh, well..then there's that.

And isn’t it true that without the “grace” these sacraments bestow the church teaches that you face at the very least eons in purgatory and in the worst situations, eternity in Hell?
No, not true. And the Church doesn't give a timeline on damnation or purgation.

So, sure you can 100% disagree, but that doesn’t change what the Catholic church teaches.
Agreed. But I happen to know what the Church teaches.

[Matt Algren]

We're veering madly off course, gentlemen.

Jack Chick is a jerk.

[Spackling Compound]

We're veering madly off course, gentlemen.

Jack Chick is a jerk.

It started off course, actually. It's not about Jack Chick, who is a jerk, but more about this woman preacher and her rights to preach in a jail.

As rick said, there are several denominations that have prison ministries. In one Mississippi city, there are Jewish ministers to prisons as well. I don't know how may Jews are in jail but they do visit.

So, the issue isn't about Chick but about the minister. I agree with rick's assesment (other than his misinformation on Catholicism).

[Dreadstar]

How do we know the jail chaplin is even allowed to distribute Chick tracts? Or for that matter, allowed to attempt conversion?

Yes, I know it sounds counter-intuitive, but take it from someone who's a public servent, you have a LOT of regulation on what you can and can't do BECAUSE you're a public servent paid by tax dollars. I'm betting THAT is where the suspension and hearing comes in.

[bfrank]

Question: What's Jack's opinion on lady ministers?

I don't know, But thanks to Imus, I can not wait for the San Francisco chapter of the NAACP to do battle with the Vatican Re: Female clergy........

[rick]

There are Jewish Prison outreach groups? Really?

I do know there are an insane amount of self-described Orthodox Jews in the NY prison system, so I guess that's not unimaginable. I've just never heard of it.

Still, I would say that Chick tracts blur a fine line between preaching and hate speach.


I don't disagree that Chick tracts might border on hate speech.

However, I also don't see how under our system allow one religion and not another.

But more importantly, at least in my opinion almost all religions teach that their believers are right and the people who don't agree are not just wrong or dammed, but also unclean and evil.

Honestly one of the things that I really like best about the Jews is that they are not looking to recruit every person who shows a passing interest.

[Typo Lad]

However, I also don't see how under our system allow one religion and not another.

Do we know that they're allowing other religions to prostelize as well? It's one thing to speak to your own established flock, but to court others?

But more importantly, at least in my opinion almost all religions teach that their believers are right and the people who don't agree are not just wrong or dammed, but also unclean and evil.

Judaism does not teach that. Sadly, people who want to think it yank it out of Judaism. However, one of the central tenants is a rightious person gets rewarded, no matter what faith they may be. In fact, it's easier for a gentile to go to heaven than a Jew.

Lucky stiffs.

Honestly one of the things that I really like best about the Jews is that they are not looking to recruit every person who shows a passing interest.

I still dunno what Suzannah was thinking.

[Typo Lad]

I don't know, But thanks to Imus, I can not wait for the San Francisco chapter of the NAACP to do battle with the Vatican Re: Female clergy........

Well, they'd have to be black, no? Otherwise, why would the NAACP get involved?

[rick]

Baptism is the only one necessary for salvation thus making it possible for non-Catholic Christians to be open to salvation. Then there is Baptism by desire, which includes devout Jews and non Christians who live according to the God of Abraham's commands.
The other sacraments are a "help" to salvation.


Oh, well..then there's that.


No, not true. And the Church doesn't give a timeline on damnation or purgation.


Agreed. But I happen to know what the Church teaches.



edit: Let me pull back a bit before we get into huge argumentative debates and state that I am no expert on the church.

Let me also state that I have to admit to having no love at all for the Catholic brand name because of some personal situations rising out of my fathers suicide and that I need to be very careful not to let those hard feelings really show.

Sorry Spack.

[Spackling Compound]

Well, they'd have to be black, no? Otherwise, why would the NAACP get involved?

Unless his CP is different from "Colored People"....

[Ed Cunard]

Collared People?

[Spackling Compound]

Sorry I didn’t get all the details 100% correct, but you will notice that in your strong denial of what I wrote, you did confirm that there are indeed requirements to salvation that if a person doesn’t succeed in they don’t get the big brass ring.

And we didn’t even get into confession, communion or the stations of the cross either.

I said Baptism is necessary for salvation. But I also said that one can be unbaptized and still merit salvation.

I think the rest is you reading into it.

And the stations of the cross is not a sacrament. Confession and Communion are not necessary for salvation.

But why be confused with the facts?

[bfrank]

Well, they'd have to be black, no? Otherwise, why would the NAACP get involved?

The president of the chapter said that he was talking (taking)on the faith based communities that treat women like 2nd class citizen's........

I haven't been to curch in a while, but I can tell you the last time i saw female priest......

do they have female rabbi's?

should be fun.......

[Spackling Compound]

edit: Let me pull back a bit before we get into huge argumentative debates and state that I am no expert on the church.

Let me also state that I have to admit to having no love at all for the Catholic brand name because of some personal situations rising out of my fathers suicide and that I need to be very careful not to let those hard feelings really show.

Sorry Spack.

Understood. Very understood.

Apology accepted.

[Typo Lad]

do they have female rabbi's?


The Conservative movement does and there has been at least one Orthodox Jewish female Rabbi, apparantly. One was ordained as recently as 2006.

Historically, Jews are not a mysogonistic faith. Many of the "fetters" some Jews add were borrowed from other cultures.

Things like the laws of ritual purity and women being absolved from certain commandments are due to higher spirituality, not lesser.

Sadly, some people basterdize that.

[Paul McEnery]

The president of the chapter said that he was talking (taking)on the faith based communities that treat women like 2nd class citizen's........

I haven't been to curch in a while, but I can tell you the last time i saw female priest......

do they have female rabbi's?

should be fun.......

The current head of the Episcopalian Church is a woman.

[Paul McEnery]

And yet almost every religion I can think of actively promotes prison outreach programs.

How do we know the jail chaplin is even allowed to distribute Chick tracts? Or for that matter, allowed to attempt conversion?

Yes, I know it sounds counter-intuitive, but take it from someone who's a public servent, you have a LOT of regulation on what you can and can't do BECAUSE you're a public servent paid by tax dollars. I'm betting THAT is where the suspension and hearing comes in.

My knowledge on this is sketchy. I know that, whatever religion you practice, you're allowed to have a chaplain for it. Because that's one of the things Anton LaVey sued for. I would be very surprised if proselytizing is allowed, because it's my understanding that seeing a chaplain is completely up to the inmate.

So I think Dread's right on this one (including about the paid suspension until the investigation is complete; mind, that often comes out of vacation time if the employee is found guilty, yes?).

I also think, though I'm not sure, that Outreach programs are limited to offering services to those that want them. After all, we'd all be surprised to see a Jewish Outreach program that was looking for converts.

[Spackling Compound]

I also think, though I'm not sure, that Outreach programs are limited to offering services to those that want them. After all, we'd all be surprised to see a Jewish Outreach program that was looking for converts.

MOST times (although some Evangelicals and Islamists may differ), the service is offered to those who are already members of the denomination.

Conversions are usually made when one asks to speak to a priest, imam or even a rabbi.

However, there are "prayer sessions" in some systems that a visiting minister (usually Evangelical) can present the opportunity for conversion. Also some Islamic leaders have taken this approach as well.

[Dreadstar]

So I think Dread's right on this one (including about the paid suspension until the investigation is complete; mind, that often comes out of vacation time if the employee is found guilty, yes?).


Bullshit. That fucker hasn't been "right" in over a decade.

[Dreadstar]

However, there are "prayer sessions" in some systems that a visiting minister (usually Evangelical) can present the opportunity for conversion. Also some Islamic leaders have taken this approach as well.

I'd be willing to bet that those sessions were elective. Or at the very least *should* be elective.

[Spackling Compound]

I'd be willing to bet that those sessions were elective. Or at the very least *should* be elective.

Always Elective.

[Smuggletrain]

How do we know the jail chaplin is even allowed to distribute Chick tracts? Or for that matter, allowed to attempt conversion?


You know, the article doesn't mention who exactly the tracts were distributed to or how they were distributed. Isn't it possible that they were distributed during church services and a Muslim inmate found one? No conversion was necessarily taking place.

[Paul McEnery]

You know, the article doesn't mention who exactly the tracts were distributed to or how they were distributed. Isn't it possible that they were distributed during church services and a Muslim inmate found one? No conversion was necessarily taking place.

Doesn't matter. When I was a university chaplain, we'd always have some asshole coming round and handing out Chick tracts to the gays and catholics, and screaming at them that they're going to hell.

Chick tracts are always proselytizing, even within the Christian community.

[Charles RB]

(what deep trouble is England in by the way?)

Well, that one does have a copyright from the year after Blair and New Labour were voted in...

It's amazing how much of Blair's reign makes sense when you think of him as a Biblical plague.

[markjames]

A blog entry on the chaplain and the Chick tract:
http://yoelnatanbooks.blogspot.com/2007/04/allah-is-moon-god-and-demon-tracts-land.html

[Tages]

A blog entry on the chaplain and the Chick tract:
http://yoelnatanbooks.blogspot.com/2007/04/allah-is-moon-god-and-demon-tracts-land.html

Thanks for this ream of bilious, paranoid nonsense and lies. I needed a good laugh.

[OzBat!]

Heh. I got a chain-letter style email last night, expounding on how the entire UK had stopped teaching about the holocaust in schools. What a small small small small demented world!

[Sanagi]

It's true - look at this one. (http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/0098/0098_01.asp)
The real moral of that story: Jack Chick welcomes assassination attempts!

[Spike-X]

Heh. I got a chain-letter style email last night, expounding on how the entire UK had stopped teaching about the holocaust in schools. What a small small small small demented world!
It's true! I read about it on a thread right here at CBR!

[Matt Algren]

Found this on the Jack "He so crazy" Chick blog. Korean shoots dead 32 students at college

The big news last week was the murder spree by a South Korean student at Virgina Tech. He killed 32 others before shooting himself. Today, the news announced, "Police still don't know why he did it." Since I'm sure the police read this blog, let me reveal the big answer to their question. He did it BECAUSE HE WAS CRAZY! Now, the same politicans who passed the Americans With Disabilities Act in 1992 which entitled wackos like the killer to hide their mental diffientcies from school officials and made it impossible for them to force any sort of treatment, are now saying we need more gun laws to stop it from happening again. The current gun laws make it illegal for suicidal nuts to buy them, but the authorities didn't know he had been treated for suicidal tendentcies because of the ADA restrictions. Why are we always so concerned with the "rights" of the murderers, crazy people, and terrorists instead of the victims on the street? Here's a concept: Why not raise the standard for immigrants? Don't allow murderers, illegals, and nut cases into the country at all. And if they can't provide documentation that they are law abiding, normal, AIDS free people who want to contribute more than they take, then tell 'em to keep moving? (Just a thought, but I'm sure it's too "common sense" for Washington to listen.) Chick uses a similar storyline to the shooting in GOOD OL' BOYS.One inclusion that I didn't see coming: "AIDS free people". Buh? That one just came out of nowhere, like he forgot to include how bad people with the AIDS are and had to tack it on somewhere.

[rick]

Found this on the Jack "He so crazy" Chick blog. One inclusion that I didn't see coming: "AIDS free people". Buh? That one just came out of nowhere, like he forgot to include how bad people with the AIDS are and had to tack it on somewhere.

Care to provide a link to that blog?

Because I'll tell you right now, that not one word of what you posted there fits into the Chick style let alone belief system.

Chick wouldn't think that the shooter was "crazy" under almost any circumstances, he would think that he was demonically possessed. And while Chicks religious bigotry is well known, I have never once seen Chick demonstrate racial bigotry. Also, Chick wouldn’t say that we need to solve the problem by changing any of “Mans” laws, he would say that the only way to stop things like the shootings is through belief in Christ.

And finally, Chick never refers to himself in the third person.

So please, let's see the link.

[rick]

Never mind, I saw the blog.

It is not in any way connected to Chick publishing, it in fact a fan site operating out of Florida and not Chick publishing’s, California location.

Using quotes from it to judge Chick is sort of like deciding you hate the way Madonna’s voice sounds because you heard some guy at a party humming “Material Girl”.

[Matt Algren]

Thanks for the clarification. I thought it was him.

[rick]

Thanks for this ream of bilious, paranoid nonsense and lies. I needed a good laugh.

Most of it was paranoid nonsense, except for one thing.

The writer is quite correct in saying that in a nation with constitutionally protected freedom of religion, the objections of one religious group is no reason to suppress another.

[rick]

Thanks for the clarification. I thought it was him.


No problem.

Chick is a nut, I'm not saying otherwise.

But his obsession is so narrowly focused, and he himself just soo deeply believes that he is preaching a religion of love, that I just couldn’t picture him worrying about immigration or race or any other so-called “Right-Wing” issues under almost any circumstances.

[Smoogis]

This may be only loosely related to the topic, but this (http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/0058/0058_01.asp) is the best tract of his that I've seen so far.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v415/smoogis/druid.jpg

[Sanagi]

This may be only loosely related to the topic, but this (http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/0058/0058_01.asp) is the best tract of his that I've seen so far.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v415/smoogis/druid.jpg
Hmm, Spooky Druids could work as a band name...

My favorite part of that comic is the guy in the background of hell shouting "You rat!" at Satan.