Ultimate X-Men #81 (Spoilers)

[Greg Anderson]

Just getting this thread ready for tomorrow, but first up... the first few pages of this issue.

http://www.popcultureshock.com/ultimate-x-men-81-preview/41528/

[Red Lotus]

lol Stacy X. That was funny

[Greg Anderson]

lol Stacy X. That was funny

Heh, yeah, I know. I didn't notice it while I was reading, but as soon as I finished making this thread, it suddenly hit me, heh heh.:D

[Beast]

Nice preview. But darn, no sneak peek of the return of Ultimate Beast. :p

[UncannyAsianGirl]

Yay! Kirkman's addressing stuff from the end of Vaghan's run. Finally! And Mystique's back too, hooray!

So, Mastermind's actually okay looking, and not hideously ugly, and his girlfriend is Stacy X? Hah! Cool.

Sinister killed himself just now? Weird... He was in my favorite Ultimate X-Men issue ever, (#49, the one with the professor's weakness being "stairs" and badass!Rogue) but to be honest, I was expecting his death a bit sooner. I wonder if it means anything?

I'll definitely be checking this out. :D

[Stony]

Just getting this thread ready for tomorrow, but first up... the first few pages of this issue.

http://www.popcultureshock.com/ultimate-x-men-81-preview/41528/

Is this thread-staking?
Isn't that like, a faux-pas?

[Beast]

Sinister killed himself just now? Weird... He was in my favorite Ultimate X-Men issue ever, (#49, the one with the professor's weakness being "stairs" and badass!Rogue) but to be honest, I was expecting his death a bit sooner. I wonder if it means anything?
Maybe Beast set up Sinister's death. So he could revive him.

If they're going with the 'Dark Beast' idea that's been kicked around so much, it's possible. :D

[Farrar]

i really hope i'm wrong but i can't help but feel that mystique is going to infiltrate the x-men as beast.

[Beast]

i really hope i'm wrong but i can't help but feel that mystique is going to infiltrate the x-men as beast.
I don't think so. Him turning up alive is going to cause some major questions.

So it wouldn't be wise of Mystique to impersonate him.

[rwsmith]

Not to mention the fact that Logan and Jean would know it was Mystique right away by her scent and thoughts.

Preview looks good, though. Glad I didn't drop this title after all.

[[WB]BlackWolf]

Well, it seems that Ultimate Nick Fury is now Ultimate Colonel Klink according to Robert Kirkman. Call me an amateur about this global security organizations, but I'm pretty sure every square inch of SHIELD would be lined with mutant-detectors, psi-blockers and oh right, digital video that would record Mastermind as he actually is. This is a ridiculous twist to say the least and an insult if one wants us to keep taking SHIELD or the X-Men seriously, which has been hard to do since Bendis ended his run.

[Beast]

BlackWolf;4698479']Well, it seems that Ultimate Nick Fury is now Ultimate Colonel Klink according to Robert Kirkman. Call me an amateur about this global security organizations, but I'm pretty sure every square inch of SHIELD would be lined with mutant-detectors, psi-blockers and oh right, digital video that would record Mastermind as he actually is. This is a ridiculous twist to say the least and an insult if one wants us to keep taking SHIELD or the X-Men seriously, which has been hard to do since Bendis ended his run.
Considering Brian K. Vaughan pulled a switch with Magneto in his last storyline, what's the problem?

[[WB]BlackWolf]

The switch in BKV's work was a bit more ingenious, in which they had set up a breakout attempt and then switched Mystique for Magneto while keeping everyone's attention diverted elsewhere.

Kirkman's written it like Mastermind just showed up with his girlfriend outside SHIELD like a tourist, strolled in and subtly mind-controlled everyone along the way into convincing them that he's a security guard. You would think that SHIELD having their experience with Mutant terrorism would install a few defences along that line, after all much fuss is made earlier in UXM about how they are worried that Xavier is using his power to influence matters in his favour. Kirkman handled this like Mastermind was just switching places in a regular prison where security would be more lax. Mastermind can't fool a digital videotape into seeing Magneto, if someone reviews the evidence outside of whatever his little zone of influence is, he's going to be busted.

[Beast]

Early spoilers for those who've been waiting. Not gonna cover the preview pages. :)

The X-School is now an actual school. It has 20 students. The only one identified by name is Grizzly. Who's upset at how everyone keeps calling him that, but Scott cheers him up by telling him to embrace the name like Beast did. Toad's also joined up as a teacher, Scott has him teaching the athletics class. So it's nice to see that Scott and Toad's friendship has been remebered by Kirkman. The guy from the Shi'ar Church who's on campus also makes a call to Shinobi Shaw. Who we find out is currently dating Emma Frost.

Beast did die during the Sentinel attack. But he was resuscitated at the hospital. Fury and Xavier let everyone believe he was dead, so that Fury could recruit Beast for SHIELD. Xavier's also been making Beast believe he was keeping in contact with his family and friends. But now that X is dead, the effects are wearing off. Beast's cured his blue-furry form, but still has the fanged canines. Hank and his team are working on trying to find a cure for the Legacy Virus, which was another of Admiral Stryker's schemes.

The tri-faced kid from Morrison's X-Men, who's name escapes me now... is running from assaulting a police officer. He identifies himself as a member of the Mutant Liberation Front, who vows they won't rest until the world knows the truth about Xavier. As he's fleeing he's blasted from behind by a new model Sentinel that appears to be human sized. Back at the school, Ororo has a nightmare with the Shadow King coming for her. Which looks like black dragonlike tendrils. She awakes screaming, and soon Bishop comes knocking on her door. He tells her the world needs the X-Men. And he needs her help to find them.

[Farrar]

That could be interesting in future issues, wasn't grizzly one of the ultimate six pack? Sounds like another good issue, won't get my copy until tomorrow though. It seems like the Magneto storyline is picking up pace too. Do you think he'll be the main villain in the "All New.." story arc?

[[WB]BlackWolf]

Beast did die during the Sentinel attack. But he was resuscitated at the hospital. Fury and Xavier let everyone believe he was dead, so that Fury could recruit Beast for SHIELD. Xavier's also been making Beast believe he was keeping in contact with his family and friends. But now that X is dead, the effects are wearing off. Beast's cured his blue-furry form, but still has the fanged canines. Hank and his team are working on trying to find a cure for the Legacy Virus, which was another of Admiral Stryker's schemes.

Well I'm swearing off Kirkman's X-men forever now. I got away from 616 Xavier because I was tired of him being written as evil, only to find Kirkman has decided to match Ultimate Xavier with his 616 persona. Why do all the writers hate Xavier? Why can't the guy just be who he was? A mentor, a teacher, a proponent for mutant rights and not Mr. Ends Justify The Means?

[Beast]

To be fair, Ultimate Xavier has been a manipulative bastard from the start. 616 just tried to match it.

[Lanowar]

Yea he's been very behind the scenes, he has syndicate running about doing some of his dirty work too. Kirkman's run is'nt exactly fantastic lately but it's not awful either.

[Beast]

Yea he's been very behind the scenes, he has syndicate running about doing some of his dirty work too. Kirkman's run is'nt exactly fantastic lately but it's not awful either.
The last 3 issues have been better than anything he's done on the title previously.

[Farrar]

It has taken him a while to get into the comic, which is surprising considering what i've heard about invincible and ant-man. I think its just taken time for him to get into a position where he can make his the title his own, Date Night to Cable i think was just a transition from Vaughns run to how Kirkman expects to carry on the title.

[Red Lotus]

To be fair, Ultimate Xavier has been a manipulative bastard from the start. 616 just tried to match it.

You're right about that. There was an issue where he and Scott were talking and it might have been after the first Magneto arc, but it came off as Xavier had some type of hidden agenda and that he isn't as good as we think his is.

[Beast]

You're right about that. There was an issue where he and Scott were talking and it might have been after the first Magneto arc, but it came off as Xavier had some type of hidden agenda and that he isn't as good as we think his is.
Now that's not to say the 616 one was always peaches and cream either.

After all had Changeling take his place and didn't tell anyone about it but Jean.

Not to mention other examples of him being quite shady. But Ultimate made him utterly manipulative first.

[Grunty]

So now we finaly got a Sentinel type that fits more into the Ultimate universe.
I always disliked that they started with those damm oversiced things in Ultimate X-men since they don't fit into Ultimate at all.

Also human siced Sentinels are far more effectiv than those giant walking dolls which made the Prime Sentinels of OZT so damm effectiv (they where still more effectiv then the regular ones) since they decreased the colletral damage greatly.

Oh yep its nice that Toad and Scotts friendship got remembered. Its intresting that Kirkman at least remebers past details (he did it with Bishop already existing in the regular timeline).

What makes me angry is that Stacy X got a cameo while Marrow is most likely already dead in Ultimate.

[rwsmith]

Pretty good issue IMO, though Beast looked a little on the large side, didn't he? Wasn't he short and stocky in the Ultimate Universe (more so than in the 616)?

As for the new team, I'm guessing Storm, Bishop, Wolverine and Beast are part of it. Not sure who else, though.

[Deus ex Chris]

This issue wasn't bad. I'm glad they went with a simpler explanation for Beast's return. I would've hated seeing a Dark Beast plot. ICK! Anyway, I'm glad to see Ben Oliver again. I much prefer him.

[Beast]

This issue wasn't bad. I'm glad they went with a simpler explanation for Beast's return. I would've hated seeing a Dark Beast plot. ICK! Anyway, I'm glad to see Ben Oliver again. I much prefer him.
Well as a wise man once said, the simplest answers are typically the correct ones. ;)

I'm glad also, but I'm hoping he has plans for Hank. Not just revealing him alive for S&Gs.

[Deus ex Chris]

I'm glad also, but I'm hoping he has plans for Hank. Not just revealing him alive for S&Gs.
Well, there has to be some sort of plan. Storm's gotta react. After all, his death caused her to grow and change significantly. Where does that leave her when she finds he's alive? Where does that leave their relationship? DRAMA!

[Sparda]

Reading the spoilers, I'm glad that Ultimate Marvel still does'nt have the problem of "you die but be brought back to life" gig.

[Red Lotus]

The one from Ireland. Is that going to be Banshee. They were so vague about the person that it almost seem like they wanted you to say Banshee but then its going to be Siryn instead.

[Beast]

Well, there has to be some sort of plan. Storm's gotta react. After all, his death caused her to grow and change significantly. Where does that leave her when she finds he's alive? Where does that leave their relationship? DRAMA!
Plus when Xavier comes back, I wonder how many people will get in the line to beat the holy hell out of him. Seriously, making everyone believe that Hank was dead. And altering Hank's memories so that he believed that he was staying in contact with his family and friends. Xavier's lucky to survive getting beaten by his own students. And why do I have a feeling that Cable's crappy future really is due to all this crap that Xavier's been doing behind everyone's backs. At least he makes the 616 one look better. :D

[Red Lotus]

Well I just hope Hank is smarter enough not to go on a mission to the Savage Land with Wolverine.

[Young Avenger]

I'm glad to see Ultimate Beast back and Kirkman went with a simple answer to explain why he's alive. Ult Beast looks better without the blue fur.

[rwsmith]

I have to say, this book is really starting to get interesting again. I just hope that Bishop ends up getting killed off at some point in the near future, preferably when we get a conclusion to this whole Cable subplot. And then the time-traveling junk will all be wrapped up nicely and neatly.

Scott and Jean can continue to run the school, and have Wolverine and Storm lead the X-men.

[Yarr]

I didnt like the new artist at all.


However I loved every other aspect of the comic. We got a lot of info here and a lot of hints towards some cool plot lines.

[MacLeod]

Only problem with the last few issues is that there's way too many plotlines running at once. There's Nightcrawler and the Morlocks, the new school, Bishop recruiting X-men, the Hellfire Club, Emma Frost and her school, Beast, Jean/Phoenix, Cable/Xavier, ansd the Shadow King.

Plus I’ve thought that Cable trying to kill Xavier would cause whatever it is that he was trying to stop, and given what’s happened since then, especially now Grizzly has joined the school, it only looks likelier.

[Greg Anderson]

Alright, Beast, I take back all my hate against bring your favorite character back... It was actually well done... There... I said it!:mad:

But anywayz, I loved this issue. Stuff are really pacing up and Kirkman is starting to fix up some of his plots that he got us all riled and pissed off at previously. Can't wait for the new Bishop team (c'mon, you guys knew I was gonna say that :) ) and Hank looked awesome. I was extremely happy tho to hear that Toad is now a teacher at the school, a smile came on my face, at least now we might get some characterization for him rather than knowing his a bad-guy who's close friends with Cyclops.

But anyways, great job overall. Can't wait for the next issue.

[rwsmith]

I've got nothing against Bishop. I just hate time-travel. My hope is that future Bishop dies and present-day Bishop joins the team at some point.

[bbmakdaddycomics]

To be fair, Ultimate Xavier has been a manipulative bastard from the start. 616 just tried to match it.

maybe kirkman's going to make xavier change due to being kidnapped.
cableverine may scare him into becoming a better person, or show him what he did that made the future wrong, anyone ever thought maybe his manipulative attitude is what caused the future's chaos?

[Greg Anderson]

I've got nothing against Bishop. I just hate time-travel. My hope is that future Bishop dies and present-day Bishop joins the team at some point.

Well, having him die is a bit extreme for me:p but I wouldn't mind the present-day Bishop to join the team too. Remember, he also has o do his time in jail (however long that is) and from what we've seen of his character thus far, he may be an arrogant and angry type character which would probably be a head-ache to read, but whatever.:o

[bbmakdaddycomics]

And why do I have a feeling that Cable's crappy future really is due to all this crap that Xavier's been doing behind everyone's backs. At least he makes the 616 one look better. :D

I did not know you said that too, maybe I should read before I post

[Omega Alpha]

Sounds like another bad issue. Those who complain about Claremont having too much subplots going on will go desperate with Kirkman. And Beast's return is absolutely unecessary. I'm glad i dropped this book.

[Beast]

Alright, Beast, I take back all my hate against bring your favorite character back... It was actually well done... There... I said it!:mad:
Mwahahahaha!! Victory!! :D

[Faded]

Stacy X, Grizzly, the Mutant Liberation Front...UGLY JOHN!? I love it! :D

Gotta say, I was happy with this issue but mostly because I want to see what is to come. I want to see the forming of the 'new' X-Men, the development of the school, and possibly cat-Beast? :D I really didn't like Oliver's previous work on the title, but it was nicely complimented by the colors and looked great this issue.

[Beast]

possibly cat-Beast? :D
*Glowers at Faded* None of that. We have that crap in 616. :p

[Greg Anderson]

The coloring in this book actually annoyed me. I loved the pencils, but the coloring just seemed a bit too dark and just... mind-numbing.:(

[Shyft]

I liked the book. Good art, especially how Night Crawler/The Sentinel/ Beast were drawn. Interested to see who the All New X-Men are going to be.

[Erik B]

Considering the issue is called Cliffhangers and everything about this is setting up a nother major storyline, possibly as big as Magnetic north, then i have to say nothing here is concrete.
I have a feeling sinister's "death" is something bigger. Remember Apocalypse may or may not have shown up and forced Sinister to kill himself, sinister could be wacko, but what is an X-men title without Apocalypse and sinister.
And NIck Fury is still the biggest schmuck ever. He is being nice to spidey now, so he has to go screw up the mutants lives? Typically Schmuckaleptic.

Beast being alive, i sort of figured he wasnt dead considering the way he "died" was the same way he was taken out in Ultimate X-men 3 all those years ago. I didnt like how they killed him, i felt if he could survive Weapon X, the attack from the brotherhood that lead to Magneto returning the first time and all the other nonsense, some more concrete could have possibly killed him.
I like how nightcrawler is searching for the Morlocks, maybe in Ultimate he becomes the leader of them instead of Storm, that was odd in my opinion.
And Bishop searching for X-men makes me believe that sooner or later we will be seeing the return of the Blue and Gold teams

[wingsofdamnation]

is everyone stupid or something? they just took in a student under the code name grizzly. unless everyone forgot about what happened with cable, grizzly was one of his henchmen!

also who is the artist for UXM? are oliver and paquette alternating arcs or is there another reason to why we keep seeing the art change

[MacLeod]

is everyone stupid or something? they just took in a student under the code name grizzly. unless everyone forgot about what happened with cable, grizzly was one of his henchmen!



Did anyone call Grizzly by name in the Cable arc though? If not, possibly no one's put two and two together.

[Beast]

Not to mention, just because Grizzly is a baddy in the future... doesn't mean he's one now.

[wingsofdamnation]

Did anyone call Grizzly by name in the Cable arc though? If not, possibly no one's put two and two together.

yes they did. domino says "grizzly you take the russian" or something along those lines. not only do they have the same name but the same powers and appearance.

[Richard Bastard]

still, I think Cyclops sees this is a young kid with similar powers who cannot control them just yet... he probably realizes its a younger version of the Grizzly in the Cable arc, but perhaps wants to take him under his wing

[Beast]

still, I think Cyclops sees this is a young kid with similar powers who cannot control them just yet... he probably realizes its a younger version of the Grizzly in the Cable arc, but perhaps wants to take him under his wing
Besides, to punish the kid for crimes his future self permits. Doing that could very well start the kid on the road to becoming what he is in the future. Besides, maybe Scott and Jean perscribe to the 'T2' theory of time travel. "The future's not set. There's no fate but what we make for ourselves."

[Novaya Havoc]

I don't like Ultimate X-Men anymore. I know Dazzler's going to come back, but I just can't stand it! I flipped through this issue and went "bah!"

And I defended the Phoenix arc! I defended "Scientology" Shi'ar.

Oh, ignorance. :(

[wingsofdamnation]

still, I think Cyclops sees this is a young kid with similar powers who cannot control them just yet... he probably realizes its a younger version of the Grizzly in the Cable arc, but perhaps wants to take him under his wing


Besides, to punish the kid for crimes his future self permits. Doing that could very well start the kid on the road to becoming what he is in the future. Besides, maybe Scott and Jean perscribe to the 'T2' theory of time travel. "The future's not set. There's no fate but what we make for ourselves."

so if you went back in time and found yourself in the position of hitlers teacher would you still treat him the same knowing that he will ultimatly become one of the most evil men of all time? that might be a bit extreme but the fact that they show no concern about taking in this kid kinda boggles me. especially them knowing that he was involved in xaviers murder

[Last_Avenger]

I really liked this issue. The art for one, was really impressive to me. Finally no more "mushy" faced characters, Cyclops and Wolverine were the worst in the Aftermath arc.

UXM is finally picking up though, I actually feel like the story is going pretty well, lots of new plot points developing, but thy're actually interesting, Bishop's new X-Team the most interesting, but you think the resume Scott was telling Jean about for this man from Sotland could be Banshee?

And we all predicted Beast's comeback, but at least he's doing something important. And I pray to god Apocalypse is real, perhaps Sinister finally killing himself has to do with the look Sinister gave Longshot back in Magnetic North, Longshot's eye did that flashy thing when he was talking to Sinister then he got quiet, then it was over with, so maybe a transfer if anything?

[Beast]

so if you went back in time and found yourself in the position of hitlers teacher would you still treat him the same knowing that he will ultimatly become one of the most evil men of all time? that might be a bit extreme but the fact that they show no concern about taking in this kid kinda boggles me. especially them knowing that he was involved in xaviers murder
According to the movies, yes.

If you alter the future by killing Hitler as a child or change something major... all you do is make a mess out of the future. While Hitler was a monster, without the events that come to play with WW2 and such, then you change the course of WW2. Maybe even ensure that there's never any eventual peace between U.S.A. and the U.S.S.R. and destroy the future thanks to a nuclear war. Besides, comparing Grizzly with Hitler is a huge stretch.

[Pyro]

I enjoyed the story. Since Xavier "died" Kirkman has been hitting a lot of the right notes. I am a little concerned with how many mutants he seems to be introducing. There are so many random, sort of alien looking mutants showing up all of a sudden, that it really just seems weird to me. The plot threads I find the most interesting are Sinister, Magneto, and Beast. I thought his return was handled well.

Quite a few of you guys mentioned how Mastermind shouldn't be able to fool SHIELD, but maybe that will be addressed soon. Perhaps Kirkman is intending for him to get caught. We can't rule that out until it doesn't happen. I agree that it doesn't make as much sense for him to not get caught, but I could buy it with Mystique.

I was really bothered by the art this issue. Not so much with Oliver's art--he's pretty good--but Villarubia's coloring was at his drabbiest. It was so washed out and ugly. I couldn't stand it. Oliver's layouts could be better though, some of the panels just weren't composed well in my opinion (like when Jean's head was cropped out of the panel on p.9), and the splash page where Nightcrawler found the Morlocks lacked any dynamism and I feel he should have focused more on the community than their hideout. I know some of the creative team comes on here sometimes, so if any of you are reading this, I hope you find my criticism constructive and not insulting. I would love to hear what you guys would have to say about your creative choices.

[Beast]

Well, the next two issues focus almost exclusively on Nightcrawler and the Morlocks. So setting it up the way they did in this issue wasn't that bad of a thing to do, at least in my opinion. :)

[MrPunch0]

So apparently I'm the only one who didn't care for Hank's return?

I thought they totally cheated.

Everyone thought he was dead, but they revived him on the table and whisked him away to a secret lair? Am I the only one who thinks this reeks of daytime soap opera?

[Omega Alpha]

So apparently I'm the only one who didn't care for Hank's return?

I thought they totally cheated.

Everyone thought he was dead, but they revived him on the table and whisked him away to a secret lair? Am I the only one who thinks this reeks of daytime soap opera?

No, you're not the only one on all counts.

[Greg Anderson]

So apparently I'm the only one who didn't care for Hank's return?

I thought they totally cheated.

Everyone thought he was dead, but they revived him on the table and whisked him away to a secret lair? Am I the only one who thinks this reeks of daytime soap opera?

Life is a soap-opera.;) :p

[Beast]

So apparently I'm the only one who didn't care for Hank's return?

I thought they totally cheated.

Everyone thought he was dead, but they revived him on the table and whisked him away to a secret lair? Am I the only one who thinks this reeks of daytime soap opera?
It's comic books. They have always reeked of daytime soap operas.

Besides, not like Xavier hasn't done it before. In 616 or Ultimate. Magneto anyone?

[Kalen O.]

It's comic books. They have always reeked of daytime soap operas.

Besides, not like Xavier hasn't done it before. In 616 or Ultimate. Magneto anyone?

Kinda the point. The fact that something has been done before (especially in a series that hasn't even hit 100) isn't necessarily a good thing.

[Beast]

Kinda the point. The fact that something has been done before (especially in a series that hasn't even hit 100) isn't necessarily a good thing.
Not really. All it does is show that the character is willing to do such things.

If he stops being a manipulative bastard, it wouldn't be in his character.

Besides, throwing out ideas because they've been done before is impossible.

EVERYTHING has been done before. That's the nature of stories.

[Kalen O.]

Not really. All it does is show that the character is willing to do such things.

If he stops being a manipulative bastard, it wouldn't be in his character.

Besides, throwing out ideas because they've been done before is impossible.

EVERYTHING has been done before. That's the nature of stories.

Yes, but there's a difference between a new take on an old idea and just....redoing the same storyline with different characters. I don't think the 'no new ideas under the sun' argument was ever intended as a defense of derivative ideas. Stories are SUPPOSED to come across as fresh and exciting, regardless of whether or not they've been done before. That's the difference between good writing and bad writing. When a writer can take a theme, motif, or even plotline that's been done to death before, and make it come across as something totally new and unexpected, THAT'S good writing. When a writer takes the same theme, motif or plotline and regurgitates it in a way everyone saw coming for miles, that's NOT good writing. You can't fault people for not being impressed at Kirkman for taking one of the three most generally accepted fandom ideas for bringing back Beast and making it canon. That's a plausible excuse for resurrecting Beast, not a good story.

Now yes, its entirely possible for Kirkman to go on from here and write every character's reaction to Beast being alive in a totally brilliant and mindblowing way. If that happens, yeah, it could turn out to be a good story, and I could be impressed. But all this is is an explanation for how Beast's alive, so I won't be wowing at the brilliance just yet. Instead, I think I'm perfectly within my rights to be disappointed with such an obvious play. It's not clever, its not fresh, its an easy out, because yes, Xavier has done it before, so why not again? Sorry, but nothing for me to get excited about there.

[myslead]

secrets, secrets, secrets ...

that kid that controls the electronic, warren and now beast.

that some shady business.

[Beast]

secrets, secrets, secrets ...

that kid that controls the electronic, warren and now beast.

that some shady business.
Indeed. The guy has been shady from Issue #1. The fact that he's been feeding Hank false memories of being in contact with his family and friends is way worse than what he did to Magneto. In Magneto's case, he simply was trying to rehabilitate an enemey who used to be his friend. In Beast's case, he was out right manipulating someone who saw him as a father figure and a friend. Certainly makes one wonder about whether he really was manipulating Storm or not. And what other shady little things he's been doing.

[tetragene]

Beast--would you feel the same way if it were any other character besides Hank that was being ressurected?

[Beast]

Beast--would you feel the same way if it were any other character besides Hank that was being ressurected?
Of course. Resurrections have never bothered me. Deaths are more annoying.

All deaths do is remove characters that a future writer may want to use.

Shove a character into limbo or write them out of the story before you use shock tactics to pointlessly kill a character. A good story can be written witout the need for pointless deaths.

[tetragene]

Of course. Resurrections have never bothered me. Deaths are more annoying.

All deaths do is remove characters that a future writer may want to use.

Shove a character into limbo or write them out of the story before you use shock tactics to pointlessly kill a character. A good story can be written witout the need for pointless deaths.

True--to a degree, but I don't think we could legitimately have gotten an "Ororo goes punk and distances self from team" plot over Beast just deciding to "leave" the X-Men, instead of dying and her going over the edge because of that.

[Beast]

True--to a degree, but I don't think we could legitimately have gotten an "Ororo goes punk and distances self from team" plot over Beast just deciding to "leave" the X-Men, instead of dying and her going over the edge because of that.
Very true. But Ororo's punk look and attitude lasted how long?

And how fast did she try to slide into Logan's pants afterwards?

If Hank really would have been dead, his body wouldn't even have been cold.

[flapjaxx]

Indeed. The guy has been shady from Issue #1. The fact that he's been feeding Hank false memories of being in contact with his family and friends is way worse than what he did to Magneto. In Magneto's case, he simply was trying to rehabilitate an enemey who used to be his friend. In Beast's case, he was out right manipulating someone who saw him as a father figure and a friend. Certainly makes one wonder about whether he really was manipulating Storm or not. And what other shady little things he's been doing.

I think there is a danger in throwing yourself too far into conjectures due to beliefs that these characters are real human beings. Was "Professor X mindcontrolling Beast this whole time", or is that basically something that Kirkman invented? I don't think that we should go too far in the opposite direction and merely speculate about how valid or artistic Beast's "resurrection" is based only on things like whether or not all the writers of UXM all along have known about Xavier's behind-the-scenes manipulations, but . . . Please, when a controversial plot twist in a work of fiction happens, it's not very interesting or effective to justify it with, "Well, that's how Professor Xavier IS--look, it HAPPENED, there's your proof!" Yes, there is a precedence for manipulation with this character, but not really on this level, to such a cruel degree--he basically made Hank a slave for a government organization he himself has not completely trusted. It's through the marriage of the fictive world and the creative decisions that, I think, most of the best understanding comes from, on both the writers' and readers' part. What a writer does should creatively use the background of the fictional world, whether it stays true to it or breaks with it in interesting ways. (What I'm saying here is not directed completely AGAINST you, "Beast", or completely against Kirkman--I don't think either of you are 100% wrong, far from it. I'm just trying to lay out principles here because I've had too much coffee this morning.)

I don't think it's very productive or interesting to wonder about things that are impossible to prove--such as "Has Xavier been controlling Storm as well?", since this is almost purely at the discretion of whatever the writer of the book feels like doing. Besides, we know that Xavier isn't the Shadow King (unless something VERY complicated happened and he psychically implanted the Shadow King into Storm before he left for the future)--and so introducing the idea of even more manipulation into Storm's psyche is just overkill. Hey, maybe some writer in the future will decide that that "has been happening"--but that would simply be bad writing unless there's a reason for it, a reason a lot better than, "At my moment of mourning for my student I thought was dead, I think I'll sell him out to the government and make him a slave." Although it certainly would give fans on message boards things to talk about and argue about the logistics of, as if these people were real--but to what point? Throughout X-Men history there are a lot of things that could have been speculated on, and even if a reader is proven "right" by subsequent history, that doesn't mean that the creative decisions are all that great. (Think about if back in the '60s some reader kept insisting, "I know that Prof X's one-panel thought-balloon expressing love for Jean is just going to produce some sort of Mental Monster--and I wonder if Magneto is going to be involved somehow!?" Now, that reader can now be proven "right" in a sense, because "for all this time" Professor X really had been building a mental monster in Onslaught. But it is not very productive or worthwhile to then search back through all of Claremont's issues for instances of where glimpses of Onslaught could have been detecting. Only on a very superficial fictional level could Onslaught be said to exist during all that time.)

To those who think the "Dark Beast" aspect is out . . . Didn't Dark Beast have a connection with Sinister, and now in this issue Beast returns when Sinister dies (or "dies", who knows anymore). Maybe all of this indentured sertivitude is building a "Dark" side of this Beast? Yes, I realize he isn't a real person, but I'm just saying that on the level of creativity that would be an interesting development for Kirkman to take since it would play off of a lot of connections.

Regardless, this title has really started to improve.

[rwsmith]

Besides, to punish the kid for crimes his future self permits. Doing that could very well start the kid on the road to becoming what he is in the future. Besides, maybe Scott and Jean perscribe to the 'T2' theory of time travel. "The future's not set. There's no fate but what we make for ourselves."

Yeah, but the end of 'T3' showed that they were wrong and that the future was set in stone and could not be averted no matter what they did. In fact, their actions only served to cause that future to come to pass!

[Jack Flash]

Sinister killed himself just now? Weird... He was in my favorite Ultimate X-Men issue ever, (#49, the one with the professor's weakness being "stairs" and badass!Rogue) but to be honest, I was expecting his death a bit sooner. I wonder if it means anything?

I'll definitely be checking this out. :D

wierd I guess I need to go re-read that, but I was under the impression that Mastermind made it seem like Sinny was dead by suicide, but wasn't.

I loved Shinobi and Ugly John. I loved the Morlock piece. Wahoo for Ultimate Caliban, Ultimate Skids, Ultimate Masque and Ultimate Tommy! *fingers crossed*

I liked the resurrection. It was simple. It could have been super convoluted. but it was nicely done.

[bbmakdaddycomics]

Of course. Resurrections have never bothered me. Deaths are more annoying.

All deaths do is remove characters that a future writer may want to use.

Shove a character into limbo or write them out of the story before you use shock tactics to pointlessly kill a character. A good story can be written witout the need for pointless deaths.

I agree, there are others ways to put a character aside than to just kill them.

[Beast]

Yeah, but the end of 'T3' showed that they were wrong and that the future was set in stone and could not be averted no matter what they did. In fact, their actions only served to cause that future to come to pass!
Well, remember the talk between the Terminator and John in T2.

John: "We're not going to make it, are we?"

Terminator: "It's in your nature to destroy yourselves."

[gravling]

i liked this issue, didn't love it but liked it - i was happy to see ben oliver back on the art, his beast was especially cool (and teh cover of this issue was one of the best we've seen in a while), however, the storytelling was a bit convoluted - jumping from one location and bunch of characters to another every page or two which doesn't make for the best storytelling and is something marvel appear to be doing a lot lately (especially new avengers)

but i'm glad beast is alive and well, and we got some mystique.

[caney]

Wow, I think I'm out of breath after reading this issue. Every other page had some new shocking revelation, so I never had any time to think about what just happened before something else caught me off guard. Of course none of it was resolved in the issue itself so it will be interesting to see what happens with each story line. I don't think there's any way they'll all be tied together at the same time, but I could be wrong.

I'm happy that Beast is back. How crappy is it that Fury let him think he was keeping in touch with his family and friends the whole time? I can't wait to see Storm's and Bobby's reaction when they find out he's alive.

[Beast]

I'm happy that Beast is back. How crappy is it that Fury let him think he was keeping in touch with his family and friends the whole time? I can't wait to see Storm's and Bobby's reaction when they find out he's alive.
It doesn't really surprise me in the case of Fury. He's been a dick pretty much everywhere he appears. Especially his harassment of Peter Parker in Ultimate Spider-Man. The fact that Xavier's a part of it, and been feeding him false memories ever since he "died". Now that's pretty dirty, even for Ultimate X. If Xavier wouldn't have "killed" by Cable, what exactly was the plan? Keep Beast mind woogied for the rest of his life? Wipe his memories completely at some point? Not like they could just reveal the truth with no harm and no foul. :p

[caney]

It doesn't really surprise me in the case of Fury. He's been a dick pretty much everywhere he appears. Especially his harassment of Peter Parker in Ultimate Spider-Man. The fact that Xavier's a part of it, and been feeding him false memories ever since he "died". Now that's pretty dirty, even for Ultimate X. If Xavier wouldn't have "killed" by Cable, what exactly was the plan? Keep Beast mind woogied for the rest of his life? Wipe his memories completely at some point? Not like they could just reveal the truth with no harm and no foul. :p

It's not shocking, but it is totally awful of them. They're treating him like a common criminal. Or worse, because criminals can still stay in contact with their family and friends. He's more like a captive slave of S.H.I.E.L.D. He hasn't done anything to warrant that kind of treatment. He's only there to help them so you think they could show him a little bit of respect.

Gah, now I'm angry about it!!! :mad:

[Erik B]

I have to agree with a few of the people who have said the whole killing a character off to place them in limbo sucks.
One of the major problems is that they keep changing the fricking writers. I dont understand why Bendis needed to come in and kill Beast. I dont understand the need for a constant death in comic books anymore. It used to be once a year or once every 2-4 years that a character died in a meaningful way, and they they haggard the story up by bringing that character, but deaths werent often.
now we have them every month in every title. starting to suck really

[Nyssane]

Mutant Liberation Front? Can I smell...

ULTIMATE THUMBELINA?

And if Stacy X can get Ultimatized, Phantazia definitely can.

[bbmakdaddycomics]

I dont understand why Bendis needed to come in and kill Beast. I dont understand the need for a constant death in comic books anymore.

1. bendis could have had beast in a coma if that were the case I think he really wanted beast dead.
2. constant deaths are a pain especially in the ultimate, thats why I stopped picking up the 616.


Mutant Liberation Front? Can I smell...

ULTIMATE THUMBELINA?

And if Stacy X can get Ultimatized, Phantazia definitely can.

1. Im a teen so please bare with me when I ask who's THUMBELINA?
2. I totally agree with Ultimate Phantazia, I thought no one would mention her being ultimized.

[Nyssane]

1. Im a teen so please bare with me when I ask who's THUMBELINA?
2. I totally agree with Ultimate Phantazia, I thought no one would mention her being ultimized.

Thumbelina is a member of the Mutant Liberation Front in 616. She's a short, overweight girl who can shrink herself, and it's been hinted she has some sort of super strength, as well. :D Aka the best character ever.

And yes, Phantazia totally needs an Ultimate version!

[Xany Kaos]

*sigh*
Well, I made a vow. When I dropped this book, I said the only thing that could ever make me buy it again while Kirkman was still on it was if Toad came back--often spoken with a sense of dread, because I was sure Kirkman wouldn't remember...

But he did. And. Well. I'm grateful for that. Not only is the friendship remembered, but Scott's got him working at the academy. Teaching gym? (Ah, the Toad-ficcer's Union's favorite Toad-Goes-Good scenario. Always either that or shop...). I really can't wait to see him now. I've waited so very long for Toad to get brought back. I'm just hoping Toad isn't going to be all evil under Scott's nose. Shades-of-gray-good-but-snarky would be so much more interesting.

I'm a little leery because I really didn't like the way Oliver drew the not-Toad in the Magician arc. Actually, I'm not a huge fan of Oliver's art, but I seem to be in the minority. You can't please everyone all the time, and I guess that's me. Maybe it wouldn't bug me as much if the color scheme wasn't so...strangely muted. And was that a filter on every single panel, or does the colorist use a daub method? Either way, it doesn't really do much for the art.

I don't know. I actually kinda liked the guest art I saw flipping through the last issue.


As for Beast's return. I hate that they had to bring him back. That was unnecessary. But the method...eh, I'm fine with it, actually. It's realtively mundane, and doesn't involve anything wacky, magical, alien, time-travely, or body-switchin. My only two complaints are that 1) he's lost the blue fur! Aww... And 2) Fury referred to it as being "resurrected." Is that really the proper medical term? Wouldn't it be, like, resuscitated (sp) or something. Resurrected automatically makes it sound like some sort of...I dunno, a bit hokey.

*cough*now just give Toad a romance and things'll really get interesting...*cough*

[Greg Anderson]

*sigh*


*cough*now just give Toad a romance and things'll really get interesting...*cough*

Toad and Scott?!?:eek:

[Mister Mets]

The last 3 issues have been better than anything he's done on the title previously.
I've gotta agree with you here.

Kind of a shame (and bad for his/ the book's reputation) that it took Kirkman 14 issues to find his voice on the title.

[Richard Bastard]

well, the guy's first two arcs were just filler until the new guy came in (and I liked Date Night A LOT, actually)... in fact, I think the writing has been excellent all the way through... the ART, on the other hand, has been at best ok, and pretty terrible most of the time... hence any action scenes looking like dogshit.

[sgt pepper]

Wow, that's a lot of plots and subplots. This is going to have to read like an anthology book if Kirkman plans on developing them all.

A good issue. Even though not much happened, throwing out little bits of lots of ideas makes it feel satisfying. It's captured my interest again.

And is it just me, or does it finally feel like Kirkman actually went back and read the previous issues of this series and some of the rest of the X-Men's 616 history as well? It's about time. That's what happens when you try to write a dozen books instead of trying to write just a few well (I swear I'm a Kirkman fan, too).

What was the point of that minimally rendered full page Morlock Village splash? What a waste of space. Oliver spent ten minutes on that drawing tops.

[lament]

Okay, I've finally read the issue. Here are my comments:

Mystique/Mastermind: I loved this scene... the casual way Mastermind switched places with Mystique, as if he were showing up to relieve a fellow cashier at a gas station. I also loved that he brought "the comforts of home.

The School: I'm not entirely sold on the school angle. We already have Headmaster Scott in one universe. On the other hand, it would be nice to see him remain at the school while Bishop runs the X-Men...

Also, I hope the Irish mutant turns out to be Sean or Tom Cassidy. Given the way Kirkman wouldn't let Scott use a pronoun, though, I have a sinking feeling we're going to get Siryn, or God help us, Shauna Cassidy.

Nightcrawler: I have high hopes for this part of the story. I'm one of the people who actually liked the idea of Kurt being a homophobe jerk. I thought that angle had potential. What I didn't like was the way it played out. I'm hoping the Morlock story will bring Kurt some good character development and redemption.

Academy of Tomorrow: I'm wondering if Peter, JP, and Warren will make up part of the new X-Men. They seem to be getting a bit of page time each issue. I certainly hope so, as I'm far more interested in the three of them than I am in some of the others.

Yay for Shinobi Shaw! I have such a thing for C and D list characters, so I was thrilled by his inclusion.

Beast: I'm holding back my opinion on this for now. I'm pleased to see Hank back and alive. But at the same time, we're back to the Legacy Virus subplot (i.e. one of the things that turned 616 Hank into an emo workaholic).

Storm: Okay, more set up for the Shadow King story. I'm more interested in how she'll react to seeing Hank and how he'll react to the irksome Logan situation.

Overall, a pretty good issue. It opens up some interesting plot threads.

[Toboe]

Nightcrawler: I have high hopes for this part of the story. I'm one of the people who actually liked the idea of Kurt being a homophobe jerk. I thought that angle had potential. What I didn't like was the way it played out. I'm hoping the Morlock story will bring Kurt some good character development and redemption..

I think we all agree on that. Psycho Nightcrawler as a result of his Weapon X experience was a neat angle, and having him be a homophobe was quite interesting and had a loot of potential. But the execution with him just deciding to kidnap someone who had just awoken from a coma, fight his team mate just because and shout that Peter is now dead to him and he's an abomination was going waaaaay too far in the wrong direction.

What you mention about the Academy of Tomorrow students becoming the new X-Men makes sense, since the do seem to be getting more screen time and in issue 75 they were shown to be eager to take a more active role as heroes.

Storm' subplot involving the Shadow King has got me intrigued. Kirkman has totally nailed Storm's character this last couple of issues (finally). I just remebered, when the "Brotherhood" attacked the Academy, Mastermind made Storm see her wors fear and thought it was odd. Maybe it's got to do with this Shadow King thingy.

[Serge LaPointe]

...also who is the artist for UXM? are oliver and paquette alternating arcs or is there another reason to why we keep seeing the art change

Yanick and I will be back, along with our wonderfull colorist Steph, for issue 84, starting a 5 issue story-arc. Until then we're still on covers, and penciler Pascal Alix is handling the art for issue 82-83.

As for after issue 88, no idea yet. We'll see when we get there.

[wingsofdamnation]

According to the movies, yes.

If you alter the future by killing Hitler as a child or change something major... all you do is make a mess out of the future. While Hitler was a monster, without the events that come to play with WW2 and such, then you change the course of WW2. Maybe even ensure that there's never any eventual peace between U.S.A. and the U.S.S.R. and destroy the future thanks to a nuclear war. Besides, comparing Grizzly with Hitler is a huge stretch.

well we pretty much know that he develops his hate for the jewish because his principal was jewish and failed him.
you're telling me that if you had the chance to stop the holocaust you wouldnt because it would change life as it is today? im sorry but that to me sounds a bit selfish. seriously you could have stopped WWII from never happening.
and yes i know comparing grizzly to hitler is a stretch but the guy was involved in the death of prof X

[Xany Kaos]

Not by changing Hitler's life. WWII would've happened anyway, more or less. Probably not on the same horrific scale, but the way Germany was, Hitler was just a match to a powder keg. If not him, someone else would've taken the slack.
I've heard some people say, really, there's only one World War, that just happens to have a mild lull in the middle.


Yanick and I will be back, along with our wonderfull colorist Steph, for issue 84, starting a 5 issue story-arc. Until then we're still on covers, and penciler Pascal Alix is handling the art for issue 82-83.

As for after issue 88, no idea yet. We'll see when we get there.

Hurrah! I quite liked your work!

[Omega Alpha]

you're telling me that if you had the chance to stop the holocaust you wouldnt because it would change life as it is today?

Not by killing Hitler when he was young. Anti-semitism always existed in Europe, and WWII was probably inevitable, but we can't say for sure that if Hitler wasn't there, it wouldn't have such big proportions or nazism wouldn't get so much power; if could very well happened that the Nazis still would rise to the power, but whoever took over was smarter and took decisions that led them to victory, such as not invade Soviet Union before Germany had conquered all Western Europe.

[wingsofdamnation]

Not by killing Hitler when he was young. Anti-semitism always existed in Europe, and WWII was probably inevitable, but we can't say for sure that if Hitler wasn't there, it wouldn't have such big proportions or nazism wouldn't get so much power; if could very well happened that the Nazis still would rise to the power, but whoever took over was smarter and took decisions that led them to victory, such as not invade Soviet Union before Germany had conquered all Western Europe.


Not by changing Hitler's life. WWII would've happened anyway, more or less. Probably not on the same horrific scale, but the way Germany was, Hitler was just a match to a powder keg. If not him, someone else would've taken the slack.
I've heard some people say, really, there's only one World War, that just happens to have a mild lull in the middle.

Hurrah! I quite liked your work!

point taken. it still upsets me that scott (or anyone else for that matter) takes young grizzly in so willingly and kindly even though he knows that his future self will eventually play a part in xavier's death.

[Omega Alpha]

point taken. it still upsets me that scott (or anyone else for that matter) takes young grizzly in so willingly and kindly even though he knows that his future self will eventually play a part in xavier's death.

Well, if Scott's characterization was any good, him, the one X-man which fully embraced the militaristic side of the X-men, wouldn't be becoming anti-military all the sudden (which would be like Reed Richards becoming anti-science or Wolverine supporting a trial for Sabretooth, and without death penalty) and would let an old man from the future which he has no reasons to trust lead his best friends in fights which may take their lives, so, what did you expect? The horribly written Cyclops is just another one of the 967357357373 reasons as to why Kirkman's run is a disaster.

[Greg Anderson]

Heh, I was just reading the Cable arc last night and laughed at Grizzly telling Cyke, "You know, I always hated you the most!" :D

[steve2275]

though Beast looked a little on the large side, didn't he? Wasn't he short and stocky in the Ultimate Universe (more so than in the 616)?.not really...looks like hes been workin out