Hints Of A Marvel Crisis to Come?

[Floyd The Barber]

Little tiny connections are slowly but surely being made between 616 and Ultimate.

In Black Panther coming up the Marvel Zombies who were last seen on the last page of the Marvel Zombies L.S. will appear in the 616 universe. The Zombie FF appeared in the Ultimate universe in Ultimate Fantastic Four. This pretty much cements that there is a way to get from universe to universe.

Also in the back up story Wolverine has a memory anomaly (whether it was considered a joke or not) where he has a flash of his Ultimate self fighting Ultimate Hulk.

As small as these instances are (are there more?) I think they are the first steps of bringing the two universes together in some way. I doubt we'll see it very very soon. But it makes a lot of sense if you think about it.

The Ultimate titles are getting pretty high in number and have formed quite a complex continuity of their own; and the 616 continuity has gotten so convoluted as of late (if not nearly thrown out the window altogether).

I am starting to believe that maybe eventually Marvel could really benefit from merging universes and only keeping the best of both. If this was to happen (and I truly believe it will at least in some form eventually) what should be kept from each one?

[drwho]

Uhh why would marvel want to alienate the fans of both lines of universes by combining the two? Dc problem was they had a mess in the first place. MArvel isnt as messy.

[myslead]

I think the wolverine thing was more of a slap in the face of the title.

[Floyd The Barber]

Uhh why would marvel want to alienate the fans of both lines of universes by combining the two? Dc problem was they had a mess in the first place. MArvel isnt as messy.

Marvel is well on it's way to being just as messy. I, for one, wouldn't be alienated by this idea at all. And besides, it's been quite some time since Marvel was that worried about "alienating" a big portion of their fans. Civil War #7 anyone? It won't happen this year. Maybe not within the next five. But I'd wager we'll see it within the next 10. A few natural progressions will have to take place first, but it's coming. Oh it's coming.

[Omega Alpha]

Marvel is well on it's way to being just as messy.

No, not that much.


I, for one, wouldn't be alienated by this idea at all.

I would, and most would.



And besides, it's been quite some time since Marvel was that worried about "alienating" a big portion of their fans. Civil War #7 anyone? It won't happen this year. Maybe not within the next five. But I'd wager we'll see it within the next 10. A few natural progressions will have to take place first, but it's coming. Oh it's coming.


No, it isn't coming. There was never even a crossover between the two universes, much less any confusion between them, and Marvel has expressed repeatedly that has no interest in it. It's easier for the UU to end than to have a Crisis at Marvel.

[Sam T.]

I would not like the idea of merging the universes at all!!:mad:

[Sijo]

As much as I dislike the Ultimate Universe, I'd rather see Marvel cancel its current books and publish only the Ultimate Line than see my favorite heroes get officially "ultimatized" which seems to be the point of Civil War and similar storylines. (Honestly, if they *already* have a dark version of the MU written by the likes of Bendis and Millar, why darken their other version instead of keeping both to please both kinds of fans?) :mad:

[Floyd The Barber]

No, not that much.

So help me out here. What was so much more messy about DC circa 1984?

Multiple versions of major characters? Marvel's already got that.

Multi-verses? Marvel's got that.

Major characters getting older? Marvel's got that.

So WHY exactly was DC so much messier then?

No, it isn't coming. There was never even a crossover between the two universes

The Marvel Zombies thing is a borderline crossover. And I'm sure the full fledged crossovers will come first. And besides there must be a first for everything.

much less any confusion between them,

You honestly think a newbie wouldn't have ANY confusion between say, Ultimate Spider-man and Amazing Spider-man even now?

Marvel has expressed repeatedly that has no interest in it. It's easier for the UU to end than to have a Crisis at Marvel.

Sure they don't now. But if/when it would be more profitable for a mega-event like this to happen than keeping them both separate, you don't think they'd do it? Really? Marvel knows that all those pissed off "alienated" fan-boys would rush to the shops to spend the money to find out what happens whether they "hate" it or not.

I agree that most would not want to see this happen now, and that I'm definitely in the minority here. But I believe as time goes on and the Ultimate line gets older and the 616 gets more and more "messy" eventually there will be more people who would like to see it happen.

Anyone else out there that wouldn't mind it that much? Anyone?

[StoneGold]

As much as I dislike the Ultimate Universe, I'd rather see Marvel cancel its current books and publish only the Ultimate Line than see my favorite heroes get officially "ultimatized" which seems to be the point of Civil War and similar storylines. (Honestly, if they *already* have a dark version of the MU written by the likes of Bendis and Millar, why darken their other version instead of keeping both to please both kinds of fans?) :mad:

Because you weren't buying enough of their happy books. See, it's all your fault. If only you had bought more copies of Ultra Girl when it was being published, Civil War never would have happened.

Seriously, you're going to argue they shouldn't publish the best selling books they've put out in years?

[StoneGold]

So help me out here. What was so much more messy about DC circa 1984?

Multiple versions of major characters? Marvel's already got that.

Multi-verses? Marvel's got that.

Major characters getting older? Marvel's got that.

So WHY exactly was DC so much messier then?



Because Marvel never had Silver Age Superman.



Seriously, it's as simple as that. DC wanted to toughen up their universe a bit, and they couldn't figure out how to do that without invalidating all the stories where Superman was torturing Lois and Jimmy. And occasionally Aquaman. Marvel's continuity, while wonky in a couple places, was never quite that embarrassing.



That, and the Ultimate U's number is higher than 616, so it makes more sense than the universe that started later being Earth 1 instead of Earth 2.

[Sijo]

Because you weren't buying enough of their happy books. See, it's all your fault. If only you had bought more copies of Ultra Girl when it was being published, Civil War never would have happened.

Seriously, you're going to argue they shouldn't publish the best selling books they've put out in years? I don't think you're aware of how low comics sales are these days. Civil War and 52 are selling great- compared to most other comics, which happen to be selling near-cancellation levels! (Check the sales reports here in CBR and you'll see what I mean.) Comics aren't selling anywhere near what they used to, and while there is more than one cause, focusing on only one kind of comic fan can't help.

[RichStanz]

Little tiny connections are slowly but surely being made between 616 and Ultimate.

In Black Panther coming up the Marvel Zombies who were last seen on the last page of the Marvel Zombies L.S. will appear in the 616 universe. The Zombie FF appeared in the Ultimate universe in Ultimate Fantastic Four. This pretty much cements that there is a way to get from universe to universe.

Has it been confirmed that the zombies in the new Black Panther storyline are *the* zombies from UFF/Marvel Zombies?

I haven't been reading Black Panther, but don't the F4 end up on a Skrull planet when the zombies attack?

What are the odds that the zombies are some sort of Skrull/shape-changing ruse? And Marvel is just toying with the readers, in the same way that the original story where the zombies appeared was toying with the idea of 616 and Ultimate Fantastic four teams meeting?

[Floyd The Barber]

As much as I dislike the Ultimate Universe, I'd rather see Marvel cancel its current books and publish only the Ultimate Line than see my favorite heroes get officially "ultimatized" which seems to be the point of Civil War and similar storylines. (Honestly, if they *already* have a dark version of the MU written by the likes of Bendis and Millar, why darken their other version instead of keeping both to please both kinds of fans?) :mad:

Y'know I see your point. It doesn't make much sense to me to make the 616 Avengers so much more political and darker when we already had Ultimates. Having both be so similar now seems kinda pointless. But then again Marvel is cleaning up at the bank, so it makes perfect sense to them.

On the other hand concerning Spider-man, Ultimate Spidey seems to be the lighter one there.

[StoneGold]

I don't think you're aware of how low comics sales are these days. Civil War and 52 are selling great- compared to most other comics, which happen to be selling near-cancellation levels! (Check the sales reports here in CBR and you'll see what I mean.) Comics aren't selling anywhere near what they used to, and while there is more than one cause, focusing on only one kind of comic fan can't help.

And what does that have to do with the dark, creepy stuff selling well? So Amazing Spider-Girl doesn't have great numbers. That doesn't change the point that Captain America #25 sold like crazy.

[Floyd The Barber]

Has it been confirmed that the zombies in the new Black Panther storyline are *the* zombies from UFF/Marvel Zombies?

I haven't been reading Black Panther, but don't the F4 end up on a Skrull planet when the zombies attack?

What are the odds that the zombies are some sort of Skrull/shape-changing ruse? And Marvel is just toying with the readers, in the same way that the original story where the zombies appeared was toying with the idea of 616 and Ultimate Fantastic four teams meeting?

I'm basing this on the fact that in the preview pages from Black Panther, the panel where the "galacti" Zombies show up is drawn to look almost exactly like the last page of the Marvel Zombies limited series. Now as to whether "Bobby Ewing is in the shower" and it's all a dream at the end of the story or not, we'll have to wait and see.

[drwho]

I'd be open to a major crossover between the two universe, but nothing permanent.

[RichStanz]

I'm basing this on the fact that in the preview pages from Black Panther, the panel where the "galacti" Zombies show up is drawn to look almost exactly like the last page of the Marvel Zombies limited series. Now as to whether "Bobby Ewing is in the shower" and it's all a dream at the end of the story or not, we'll have to wait and see.

That's my point - the internet was *so sure* that Ultimate Fantastic Four was going to interact with original Fantastic Four - they were even drawn to look like the originals - but then it turned out to be a surprise twist.

I'm only suspect because I like the Marvel Zombies, but I don't follow Black Panther. All I know is this storyline takes them to a Skrull world and surprise! there are characters that look like the Marvel Zombies (on a planet of shape-shifters.)

[Floyd The Barber]

And what does that have to do with the dark, creepy stuff selling well? So Amazing Spider-Girl doesn't have great numbers. That doesn't change the point that Captain America #25 sold like crazy.

I don't know how long you've been into comics, but "selling like crazy" is a really relative term. X-Men #1 from 1993 didn't get near the media coverage the Death Of Cap did and sold over a million copies. This may be an extreme example but seriously, up untill the late 90's 100,000 copies would have been very very moderate for a Marvel or DC superhero book. Nowadays a lot of top 10 books don't crack that number. I distinctly remember when there was talk of cancelling one of the older runs of Doctor Strange and the statement in the back said it was selling around 60,000 copies a month. That's considered damn good now. Within the top ten. If you don't believe me. I fully encourage you to do some research. It's alarming really.

[Floyd The Barber]

That's my point - the internet was *so sure* that Ultimate Fantastic Four was going to interact with original Fantastic Four - they were even drawn to look like the originals - but then it turned out to be a surprise twist.

I'm only suspect because I like the Marvel Zombies, but I don't follow Black Panther. All I know is this storyline takes them to a Skrull world and surprise! there are characters that look like the Marvel Zombies (on a planet of shape-shifters.)

I don't claim to write Black Panther or work for Marvel. But IMO skrulls shapeshifting into the Marvel Zombies exactly, when they've never seen or heard of them would be pretty hard to swallow. Have you seen the preview?

[RichStanz]

I don't claim to write Black Panther or work for Marvel. But IMO skrulls shapeshifting into the Marvel Zombies exactly, when they've never seen or heard of them would be pretty hard to swallow. Have you seen the preview?

I'm only skeptical because there's no dialogue to the preview, so we don't know the context (other than it happens around skrulls). While the solicit says its the return of the zombies, the solicits have used intentional misdirection before.
Plus, Quesada wouldn't confirm or deny if this was an actual 616/ultimate crossover. He just said to read the book first: http://www.newsarama.com/NewJoeFridays/NewJoeFridays_38.html (just scroll to the reader's questions)
Plus plus, there was a Marvel Zombie Wolverine in a storyline in Exiles- but it wasn't *the* Marvel Zombie Wolverine, just another zombie wolverine, who looked a lot like the Sean Phillips design.

I'm not sure how Skrulls could shapeshift into characters they've never seen before, I'm just saying lots of things could happen in comics that make little sense, and I'll wait to read the story before I think about its effects.

[BeastieRunner]

If it is Skrulls, then Marvel just ignored everything in Annihilation.

[Floyd The Barber]

I'm only skeptical because there's no dialogue to the preview, so we don't know the context (other than it happens around skrulls). While the solicit says its the return of the zombies, the solicits have used intentional misdirection before.
Plus, Quesada wouldn't confirm or deny if this was an actual 616/ultimate crossover. He just said to read the book first: http://www.newsarama.com/NewJoeFridays/NewJoeFridays_38.html (just scroll to the reader's questions)
Plus plus, there was a Marvel Zombie Wolverine in a storyline in Exiles- but it wasn't *the* Marvel Zombie Wolverine, just another zombie wolverine, who looked a lot like the Sean Phillips design.

I'm not sure how Skrulls could shapeshift into characters they've never seen before, I'm just saying lots of things could happen in comics that make little sense, and I'll wait to read the story before I think about its effects.

"But Black Panther #27 doesn't just feature any old Zombies—we're talking about the now-classic, fan favorite Marvel Zombies themselves!"

"Marvel advises retailers to check their orders on Black Panther #27 and upcoming issues, as Black Panther #26 has sold out at Diamond. Currently there are no plans to go back to press on Black Panther #26, which featured an early tale of the new Fantastic Four. Get onboard for what is sure to be a classic Marvel crossover!"

If it's not THEE Marvel Zombies, I'm not a lawyer, but that sounds a helluva lot like false advertisement or at least misdirection of some kind.

Add in the panel in question and the Arthur Suydam covers and that'd be one helluva ruse.

[Floyd The Barber]

If it is Skrulls, then Marvel just ignored everything in Annihilation.

Hmmmm....Do I smell more "messy"? :)

[drwho]

naah because it does state the story is a direct sequel to the mini. Why cant the alternate universe have skrulls, too? Pretty clear to understand to me.

[RichStanz]

"But Black Panther #27 doesn't just feature any old Zombies—we're talking about the now-classic, fan favorite Marvel Zombies themselves!"

"Marvel advises retailers to check their orders on Black Panther #27 and upcoming issues, as Black Panther #26 has sold out at Diamond. Currently there are no plans to go back to press on Black Panther #26, which featured an early tale of the new Fantastic Four. Get onboard for what is sure to be a classic Marvel crossover!"

If it's not THEE Marvel Zombies, I'm not a lawyer, but that sounds a helluva lot like false advertisement or at least misdirection of some kind.

Add in the panel in question and the Arthur Suydam covers and that'd be one helluva ruse.

Although, its pretty easy to play Marvel legalese in a situation like this:
"Now classic, fan favorite Marvel Zombies" doesn't necessarily mean they are the few surviving characters that appeared in Robert Kirkman's mini-series, but rather "Marvel Zombies" are an exciting new style of zombie, different than what you see in the competitions' zombies.
Marvel Zombies vs. the new Fantastic Four. Who's the real winner? Why the fans of course!

So, if they wanted to get out of it, that's the one way to do it. :)

[Floyd The Barber]

Although, its pretty easy to play Marvel legalese in a situation like this:
"Now classic, fan favorite Marvel Zombies" doesn't necessarily mean they are the few surviving characters that appeared in Robert Kirkman's mini-series, but rather "Marvel Zombies" are an exciting new style of zombie, different than what you see in the competitions' zombies.
Marvel Zombies vs. the new Fantastic Four. Who's the real winner? Why the fans of course!

So, if they wanted to get out of it, that's the one way to do it. :)

I completely see what you're saying. Really it wouldn't surprise me. I don't condone LYING for a sales pitch, but it does happen. I thought to myself, with the buzz juggernaut that Marvel Zombies was, Why would there next appearance be in Black Panther of all books? After much contemplation I think I know why. None of the other Ultimate books need a sales spike that much. What book already has slight buzz but could need more? Take the interest in the new Fantastic Four and throw in the Marvel Zombies and you have the perfect reason to draw attention to Black Panther. But I digress...

People are obviously passionate about the subject. So back to my original question in my first post: If it did happen. If you had no choice. And they were doing it. What would you keep from each?

[Mister Mets]

I think the wolverine thing was more of a slap in the face of the title.
I wouldn't go that far.
I think Loeb added it to get people to speculate on an otherwise fairly pointless twelve pager.

On the other hand, I didn't mind 12 pages of Wolverine VS Hulk by Ed McGuinness.

[RichStanz]

People are obviously passionate about the subject. So back to my original question in my first post: If it did happen. If you had no choice. And they were doing it. What would you keep from each?

Oof, at the most - I'd just take Ultimate Spider-Man.

Millar's Ultimates comes close, but in the end, none of the Ultimate books have been able to compete with 40 years of original Marvel history. Although, I do think Millar's Ultimates will be something landmark when its finally done.

Ultimate Spider-Man, I took however, just because its more lively and colorful, and just pops! more than regular Spidey (outside of some great moments in JMS' run). I would hate to undo the marriage and Peter growing up and a lot of things, but it wouldn't be *so* bad because the Clone Saga would be undone - and that is the single worst thing to ever make Spidey "not fun."

Although, just realizing, if you count the crossovers, I accept seeing the *real* Marvel Zombies and the Supreme Power-version of the Squadron Supreme interacting with classic Marvel.

[Floyd The Barber]

I agree totally with you about Spider-Man. 616 Spider-Man is just one step away from being Batman or (worse for him) Punisher, and that's just not Spider-Man.

Also I would take the Ultimate Iron Man over 616 Iron Man anyday. Ultimate Iron Man is the Martini drinking, skirt chasing, James Bond in an armor suit that the Iron Man I loved so much of old used to be. Let's face it, as much as their tryin' to sugarcoat it now, there has been unrepairable damage done to 616 Iron Man that makes him an unlikeable prick to anyone that loves free thought and freedom without hypocrisy or tyranny.

[Dooby Doo!]

If they merge it wouldn't bother so much as long as Bendis is nowhere near Avengers or Spidey. Actually I prefer Ult.Cap over 616 Captain America.

[Floyd The Barber]

If they merge it wouldn't bother so much as long as Bendis is nowhere near Avengers or Spidey. Actually I prefer Ult.Cap over 616 Captain America.

Who in their right mind wouldn't is what I'd like to know?????

Ultimate Cap gave us "What do you think this "A" stands for? France?"

616 Cap gave us : "They're not arresting Captain America......they're arresting Steve Rogers. That's a very different thing." and then just gave up.

You decide.

[Dooby Doo!]

Theres that. I just dig a more soldier-like Cap and Ult. Cap is it.

[Floyd The Barber]

Theres that. I just dig a more soldier-like Cap and Ult. Cap is it.

Amen. Cap is America's greatest soldier. Not America's greatest spokesperson. He's not supposed to give a crap about the manipulated conscienceness of America's public. He's supposed to care about TRUE freedom.

Ultimate Captain America does a helluva lot better job of this.

[DoctorDoom]

No, I think there won't be a Marvel "crisis". Very unlikely and like others said, Marvel's not a mess that needs to be cleaned.

[DoctorDoom]

I'm basing this on the fact that in the preview pages from Black Panther, the panel where the "galacti" Zombies show up is drawn to look almost exactly like the last page of the Marvel Zombies limited series. Now as to whether "Bobby Ewing is in the shower" and it's all a dream at the end of the story or not, we'll have to wait and see.
Is there a link to these preview pages? I can't believe I missed it!

[Frank]

Who in their right mind wouldn't is what I'd like to know?????

Ultimate Cap gave us "What do you think this "A" stands for? France?"

616 Cap gave us : "They're not arresting Captain America......they're arresting Steve Rogers. That's a very different thing." and then just gave up.

You decide.

I choose Captain Castle

[Expletive Deleted]

Just because DC handled their multiverse reduction with a Crisis doesn't necessarily mean Marvel would have to. I think they're much more likely to just axe the lower selling one than do some big, even-messier-than-the-original-multiverse merger.

I mean, in 1985, how much money was DC making off Earths 2 through X? Basically, just what Roy Thomas was bringing in on INFINITY INC. Until one of the two main Marvel universes drops in sales to something like that level (proportionally, of course), I don't think we really need to worry about anything happening.

[Blind pugh]

I would not like the idea of merging the universes at all!!:mad:

What he said!

[tavella]

Who in their right mind wouldn't is what I'd like to know?????

Ultimate Cap gave us "What do you think this "A" stands for? France?"

616 Cap gave us : "They're not arresting Captain America......they're arresting Steve Rogers. That's a very different thing." and then just gave up.

You decide.

Hmm, let me see, a character that lets Millar unleash his worst one dimensional America F--- Yeah cliches (and believe me, no one fresh from WWII would say something as dumb as the "stands for France" line; that's a special kind of stupidity that requires 21st century wingnuttery), one one that has a complicated and fascinating history of heroism and compassion... gosh, yeah, *that's* a hard decision to make. 616 Cap all the way.

[Taskmaster]

Hmm, let me see, a character that lets Millar unleash his worst one dimensional America F--- Yeah cliches (and believe me, no one fresh from WWII would say something as dumb as the "stands for France" line; that's a special kind of stupidity that requires 21st century wingnuttery), one one that has a complicated and fascinating history of heroism and compassion... gosh, yeah, *that's* a hard decision to make. 616 Cap all the way.

A-freaking-Men, anybody who picks Ultimate Cap for those reasons is exactly what's wrong with comics as well as the world today, myspace.com using, american idol watching, blind sheep being led to the slaughterhouse is what they are. Don't get me wrong, i'm no fan of France, and this isn't directed at anyone personally here on the board but with the way things are going and with things like what Ult. Cap said and the dumb reporter in Civil War being actually representative of what people think I really fear for the world. It's sad to say, but "most people are too arrogant to know what they don't know".

[Psyco panda]

I doubt they'd merge the universes, no matter happens in Ult marvel or 616, mostly because it would read as a huge rip off of DC.

[Magneto Rocks]

I just wanted to say I love both Caps but 616 Cap is fifty times the character Ultimate Cap could ever be, and Hell I'd say Mark Millar agrees. 616 Cap is the moral Superman of Marvel but means so much more because he, unlike Superman ,DOESN'T have this insane power level, he's the living legend of World War 2 yet his powers are pretty rubbish... but that doesn't matter becuase he's CAPTAIN AMERICA and men would die for him.

Ultimate Cap, while a fantastic character and a much more likely representation of what a real-life Cap would be, cannot compete.

[Sam T.]

I just wanted to say I love both Caps but 616 Cap is fifty times the character Ultimate Cap could ever be, and Hell I'd say Mark Millar agrees. 616 Cap is the moral Superman of Marvel but means so much more because he, unlike Superman ,DOESN'T have this insane power level, he's the living legend of World War 2 yet his powers are pretty rubbish... but that doesn't matter becuase he's CAPTAIN AMERICA and men would die for him.

Ultimate Cap, while a fantastic character and a much more likely representation of what a real-life Cap would be, cannot compete.

I totally agree with what he is saying. Ultimate Cap is just not as great a character as the regular universe Cap!!

[Citizen V]

Things are..messed up for Marvel,but nothing along the lines of a Crisis.

[Floyd The Barber]

A-freaking-Men, anybody who picks Ultimate Cap for those reasons is exactly what's wrong with comics as well as the world today, myspace.com using, american idol watching, blind sheep being led to the slaughterhouse is what they are. Don't get me wrong, i'm no fan of France, and this isn't directed at anyone personally here on the board but with the way things are going and with things like what Ult. Cap said and the dumb reporter in Civil War being actually representative of what people think I really fear for the world. It's sad to say, but "most people are too arrogant to know what they don't know".

That's funny. I hate American Idol, don't have a myspace page, hell I don't even own a cell phone, and I still like Ultimate Cap better. And I have absolutely nothing against France. I like Ultimate Cap better because he's:
1.) younger
2.) more realistic
3.) more representative of an average American soldier (God bless em)
4.) his "costume" is better IMO
5.) the idea of him being unfrozen in modern times is more interesting IMO.

Y'know accusing someone of being a sheep, and thinking you know things about them because their opinion is different from yours is pretty much the definition of being ARROGANT.

Congratulations! That post may just be more hypocritical and self-contradictory than just about anything I've ever read.

[StoneGold]

Hmm, let me see, a character that lets Millar unleash his worst one dimensional America F--- Yeah cliches (and believe me, no one fresh from WWII would say something as dumb as the "stands for France" line; that's a special kind of stupidity that requires 21st century wingnuttery),

I'm pretty sure Patton did.

[xarathos]

I think the Ultimate line has proved distracting. Civil War was supposed to be this huge crossover, but was such a mess I wonder if I'll ever want to read many of the books again. You wondered where the writers heads were?

It's also very confusing.

[Omega Alpha]

That's funny. I hate American Idol, don't have a myspace page, hell I don't even own a cell phone, and I still like Ultimate Cap better. And I have absolutely nothing against France. I like Ultimate Cap better because he's:
1.) younger
2.) more realistic
3.) more representative of an average American soldier (God bless em)
4.) his "costume" is better IMO
5.) the idea of him being unfrozen in modern times is more interesting IMO.

Y'know accusing someone of being a sheep, and thinking you know things about them because their opinion is different from yours is pretty much the definition of being ARROGANT.

Congratulations! That post may just be more hypocritical and self-contradictory than just about anything I've ever read.

Great post. I agree with all of it. Except that i have a cell phone.

[DoctorDoom]

Now this would be a real Marvel Crisis!

http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/41373934/?q=marvel+crisis&qh=boost%3Apopular+age_sigma%3A24h+age_scale%3A5 (http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/41373934/?q=marvel+crisis&qh=boost%3Apopular+age_sigma%3A24h+age_scale%3A5)

[smoothjokes]

A Marvel Zombies/New FF/Ultimate FF crossover would be cool in my opinion. It could help boost sales on New FF, Ultimate FF (needed) & Black Panther. Be a good move. Why not go for it?

[rZi]

Merging universes would truly suck. The ult line-up is an escape for people from 616

[captain_unimpressive]

I believe someone (Millar, Bendis... someone) was quoted as saying that that they've thought of that, but everyone at Marvel realizes that if they ever did it, it would mean they were offically out of ideas.

[StoneGold]

A Marvel Zombies/New FF/Ultimate FF crossover would be cool in my opinion. It could help boost sales on New FF, Ultimate FF (needed) & Black Panther. Be a good move. Why not go for it?

Because Millar already sucked the potential for that with Marvel Zombies. Although I'm glad he did. The zombies story was far, far better than any standard crossover could have been. Zombie Reed pretty much said it himself, for the MU, meeting their alternate universe doubles is called Tuesday.

[Citizen V]

Civil War was something that was put together as a sort of counter attack to DC`s Idenity Crisis.There is no wonder things were messy,as the Ultimate Universe was ment to refresh things..but that can go only so far.

[CaptainCanada]

A merger won't happen. First, the Ultimate line is dwindling in sales and in terms of creative buzz (UFF and UXM haven't generated real attention in a while, if they ever did; the Ultimates doesn't come out often enough to amount to jack; only USM comes close). There's no reason to merge the universes; if anything should have been learned from COIE, it's that events like that create many more problems than they solve, and Marvel's continuity, while cluttered, is still quite workable (it certainly helps that it started in 1961, and only really gained size late in that decade, rather than in the 1940s or 50s).

On the Ultimate Cap vs. 616 Cap debate, Ultimate Cap sucks. He's a one-dimensional distillation of every untrue cliche about 616 Cap: a thuggish, offensively-patriotic jerk. 616 Cap is the moral centre of the Marvel Universe; not "realistic" in some ways? Sure. But infinitely better, just like Superman is better as Superman, not Liefeld's "Supreme".

[DoctorDoom]

gah...couldn;t post the image on here (can't figure out how)

[agent2112]

Was "House of M" part of 616? or was/is it a seperate world?

When Wanda said "No more mutants" did she make another new world that is so similar to the 616 universe that we don't even know it is different? Maybe when she gets better or something the world will switch back to the regular 616 we all know with Captain America alive, Tony as just Iron Man (no SHIELD), Peter with a secret identity again, Wolverine with no memories, no Civil War, the whole Hulk thing, infinity gems, no Clor... Seems to me, Marvel has free reign to do what it wants right now and it can all be put back.

[leeisl]

Was "House of M" part of 616? or was/is it a seperate world?

When Wanda said "No more mutants" did she make another new world that is so similar to the 616 universe that we don't even know it is different? Maybe when she gets better or something the world will switch back to the regular 616 we all know with Captain America alive, Tony as just Iron Man (no SHIELD), Peter with a secret identity again, Wolverine with no memories, no Civil War, the whole Hulk thing, infinity gems, no Clor... Seems to me, Marvel has free reign to do what it wants right now and it can all be put back.

It is 616 AFAIK, so no.

[StoneGold]

Was "House of M" part of 616? or was/is it a seperate world?

When Wanda said "No more mutants" did she make another new world that is so similar to the 616 universe that we don't even know it is different? Maybe when she gets better or something the world will switch back to the regular 616 we all know with Captain America alive, Tony as just Iron Man (no SHIELD), Peter with a secret identity again, Wolverine with no memories, no Civil War, the whole Hulk thing, infinity gems, no Clor... Seems to me, Marvel has free reign to do what it wants right now and it can all be put back.

You could do that anyways. It's a fictional world. You don't need to have a backdoor mechanism.


But it ain't likely to happen, either way.

[kmalone]

No merging, but maybe a gig, kind of summer event akin to Secret Wars' structure?

A long mini-series with every major marvel character encountering their zombified self in one issue?

Now that I think of it, this happened to Daredevil, Spiderman and Wolverine didn't it in...what was it...Inferno!

Would that be cool?

[Magneto Rocks]

Civil War was something that was put together as a sort of counter attack to DC`s Idenity Crisis.There is no wonder things were messy,as the Ultimate Universe was ment to refresh things..but that can go only so far.

Well THAT is wildly inaccurate. Firstly, a DC editor ADMITTED Identity Crisis was in fact simply DC trying to copy Marvel's success. Secondly, there is no way Civil War was a copy of Identitiy Crisis, there's simply no way. Marvel decided, possibly based on Identity Crisis, to do something in 2005 as their first summer crossover in many years. Civil War was to be their second, and if they HADN'T done civil war they had a summer crossover planned anyway! In the end, Civil War changed far more than House of M, Identitiy Crisis or Infinite Crisis put together of course.

To say it wa sput together as a counter to Identity Crisis is flawed, backwards and inaccurate all at once. :)

[tavella]

I just wanted to say I love both Caps but 616 Cap is fifty times the character Ultimate Cap could ever be, and Hell I'd say Mark Millar agrees. 616 Cap is the moral Superman of Marvel but means so much more because he, unlike Superman ,DOESN'T have this insane power level, he's the living legend of World War 2 yet his powers are pretty rubbish... but that doesn't matter becuase he's CAPTAIN AMERICA and men would die for him.


Magneto Rocks and I agree on something! Lucifer is clearly iceskating :)

[desanth]

I like the UU because its easier to follow and has a lot less going on(there's just UFF, USM, and UXM monthly, right?)
It's cool that you can look at the UU and 616 characters to compare, combining would suck. I like Ultimate Captain America, but him having a monthly would suck, since he's pretty 1D, along with many other characters on the Ultimates. I think USM is the only contender against 616, but a weak one.

[HeckBoy]

A merging's not gonna happen. Marvel tends to sweep continuity issues under the rug never to be heard of again instead of going the cosmic reality realignment route

[RedKnight]

I think that the Watcher will break his vow of non-interferance in order to save the universe... nay, the multiverse.

The Negative Watcher has begun destroying alternate universes. Spider-Ham's Larval Earth was the first to fall under his destruction. Various What If earths, the Age of Apocalypse and others soon follow in its path.

The earth's heroes must band together to destroy this evil fiend, but when it is all done, only Earth-616, the Ultimate Universe and the New Universe survive... but are soon blended together into a single heavenly sphere. Confusion reigns why two versions of every character attempt to keep the world safe from evil.

[Zombienorthstar]

In an interview with Wizard Joe Q said if the Ultimate and 616 universes were to collide they might as well give up publishing as they had obviously run out of ideas. I doubt it will happen.