Honeybee disaster... we're all dead in four years

[End of Time]

In case you haven't heard (http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/World_agricultural_honeybee_disappearance), bee populations plummeted this year. Starting a week or two ago, I started hearing on the radio and reading that as much as 70% of the world's commercial bee population just "disappeared" in some areas. There's plenty of theories, from a bee epidemic to cell phones (http://news.independent.co.uk/environment/wildlife/article2449968.ece). But whatever the reason this is really important news, and I'm surprised more major outlets aren't carrying it. Bees are to the food industry as the middle east is to oil. If something happens to them, we're all going to pay.

Einstein said it himself, if the bees are gone, then in four years there will be no more food, no food means no animals and no people.

[Sir Tim Drake]

This is a very serious problem, but there's no need to be so ridiculously alarmist about it. Fear-mongering rhetoric like this just makes people panic, which in turn makes them less willing to listen to reason.

[Jack Zodiac]

Plus, "holy shit, the bees are all gone, we're doomed!" sounds pretty fucking ridiculous, even if it is serious.

[Karl J Barnes]

But on the bright side, if you are procastinator, then you can stop worrying about things that you've put off.

[Serik]

You have to admit that civilization ending from lack of bees is somewhat funny, given that most doomsday scenarios focus on nuclear war, massive climate change, and meteor impacts. Whoops, didn't see this one coming

Personally, I think half the story has to do with Einstein's quote. Had he not said that, I don't know how many people would actually be talking about it.

[Paul McEnery]

In case you haven't heard (http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/World_agricultural_honeybee_disappearance), bee populations plummeted this year. Starting a week or two ago, I started hearing on the radio and reading that as much as 70% of the world's commercial bee population just "disappeared" in some areas. There's plenty of theories, from a bee epidemic to cell phones (http://news.independent.co.uk/environment/wildlife/article2449968.ece). But whatever the reason this is really important news, and I'm surprised more major outlets aren't carrying it. Bees are to the food industry as the middle east is to oil. If something happens to them, we're all going to pay.

Einstein said it himself, if the bees are gone, then in four years there will be no more food, no food means no animals and no people.

Bang on time for 2012.

[BlairH]

All your bees are belong to us!

But seriously, it's quite a problem. I was talking to a few beekeeper guys over at a firearm forum I visit, they say it's a complete mystery as to why the bees are vanishing.

[BlairH]

Bang on time for 2012.

You don't believe in that calendar (tm) do you?

[howyadoin]

Plus, "holy shit, the bees are all gone, we're doomed!" sounds pretty fucking ridiculous, even if it is serious.I thought we were all doomed because the bees were going to kill us all.

[OzBat!]

The bees have all moved to their hidden fortress in another dimension just sidesways to this one, making their plans and preparing for their assault on the peoples of the earth.

[Karl J Barnes]

I thought we were all doomed because the bees were going to kill us all.


That was in the 90s,right? Weren't they the bees coming up through South America? If so, maybe they were pollenating some ganja and decided to stay put.

[Michael P]

All your bees are belong to us!

But seriously, it's quite a problem. I was talking to a few beekeeper guys over at a firearm forum I visit, they say it's a complete mystery as to why the bees are vanishing.
If somebody finds a hive with the words "So long, and thanks for all the pollen" carved in it, pack your shit.

[Sanagi]

There's already been some debunking of this going on... For one thing, no one can seem to find where Einstein actually said that.

An entomologist's take: http://www.biotunes.org/bioblog/2007/04/cell-phone-use-and-bees.html
On Einstein: http://www.markturner.net/?q=node/2191

[howyadoin]

That was in the 90s,right?I remember hearing it in the 70s. I also remember somebody saying it here at CBR in the last couple years, and once again we were in immediate danger.

[Matt Algren]

That was in the 90s,right? Weren't they the bees coming up through South America? If so, maybe they were pollenating some ganja and decided to stay put.
Now they're just committing suicide because they feel bad about failing to kill us.

[thespianphryne]

If somebody finds a hive with the words "So long, and thanks for all the pollen" carved in it, pack your shit.

Beat me to it.

---

Maybe the bees are planning some sort of horrific assault on all us humans for all the pesticide we've been using all this time. Maybe it'll turn out to be a Hitchockian scenario like in The Birds.

[Karl J Barnes]

Beat me to it.

---

Maybe the bees are planning some sort of horrific assault on all us humans for all the pesticide we've been using all this time. Maybe it'll turn out to be a Hitchockian scenario like in The Birds.


Somebody needs to alert the SciFi Channel so that they can make a crappy tv movie of this premise!

[thespianphryne]

Somebody needs to alert the SciFi Channel so that they can make a crappy tv movie of this premise!

I think there've been at least 4 movies that use this plot.

[Quarterwolf]

This is a very serious problem, but there's no need to be so ridiculously alarmist about it. Fear-mongering rhetoric like this just makes people panic, which in turn makes them less willing to listen to reason.
I WILL KILL YOU FOR YOUR FOOD. KILL YOU.

But really I think we have nothing to worry about. Most of our "food" now is not made from real food anyway.

Bang on time for 2012.
Damn. ragnarok_2012's name really does ring true now.

[Sir Tim Drake]

I WILL KILL YOU FOR YOUR FOOD. KILL YOU.

I'm not afraid of you. My armor is thick enough to resist the bites of a 50% wolf, to say nothing of a 25% one.

[quote]But really I think we have nothing to worry about. Most of our "food" now is not made from real food anyway. [/COLOR][/FONT][/B]

Plus honeybees aren't even native to the Americas, so indigenous American crops (e.g. potatoes and tomatoes) don't require honeybees for pollination.

[Paul McEnery]

I think there've been at least 4 movies that use this plot.

[michael caine]The bees have always been our friends[/michael caine]

[BlairH]

Somebody needs to alert the SciFi Channel so that they can make a crappy tv movie of this premise!

I can just imagine Michael Ironside standing in front of a serious looking powerpoint presentation, flatly stating "Over 11% of the population are now allergic to bee-stings. Within 48 hours, we can expect 49% mortality."

Then you'd have a cliched dissenting Republican saying "My God! This isn't possible! Our spohisticated anti-bee weaponry and..."

Ironside interrupts "All useless Major...The bee sleeper cells destroyed them in their first strike."

"My God it's true! What do we do!"

[Sabrina_Fried]

While I don't dispute the fact that there has been an unexplainable mass death of Honeybees there are a few things I think it is important to remember:

1. Honeybees are a domesticated bee species. If they were to suddenly dissappear other bee species or indigneous pollinators CAN take their place in the ecosystem. The main problem is that it may be a long time before these alternate pollinators can replace bees in sufficient quantities to pollinate human crops. Which is to say longer than most monocropped mega-farms can survive without honeybees.

2. Last I heard, scientists were already investigating whether the "bred in" pesticides contained in some GM flowering plants can poison the bees through the plant's pollen. The dose that a single bee might get may not be immediately fatal, but when the pollen is collected and converted into honey the biomagnification that occurs can cause problems for the bees.

3. Alot of the honeybees used for pollination in North America are not from "resident hives." Basically their hives are trucked around from field to field around pollination time so that they can do their thing. This can't be good for the bees because it means that their "home base" is always moving.

None of the above is very reassuring, sorry :(

Sabrina

[mgs]

While I don't dispute the fact that there has been an unexplainable mass death of Honeybees there are a few things I think it is important to remember:

1. Honeybees are a domesticated bee species. If they were to suddenly dissappear other bee species or indigneous pollinators CAN take their place in the ecosystem. The main problem is that it may be a long time before these alternate pollinators can replace bees in sufficient quantities to pollinate human crops. Which is to say longer than most monocropped mega-farms can survive without honeybees.

2. Last I heard, scientists were already investigating whether the "bred in" pesticides contained in some GM flowering plants can poison the bees through the plant's pollen. The dose that a single bee might get may not be immediately fatal, but when the pollen is collected and converted into honey the biomagnification that occurs can cause problems for the bees.

3. Alot of the honeybees used for pollination in North America are not from "resident hives." Basically their hives are trucked around from field to field around pollination time so that they can do their thing. This can't be good for the bees because it means that their "home base" is always moving.

None of the above is very reassuring, sorry :(

Sabrina

great post Sabrina, what I still can't believe is that honey farmers would have no means to support the bees with pollen themselves (by setting up flower plots). I'm baffled how some people still have no idea how the environment works and expect it to be self-sustaining forever.

[BlairH]

You see, bees usually make a lot of noise. NO NOISE! Suggests no bees!

To the BEEMOBILE!
You mean your Chevy?
Yes!

[Chris Nowlin]

Won't somebody please think of the children!

[Reptisaurus!]

There's plenty of theories, from a bee epidemic to cell phones (http://news.independent.co.uk/environment/wildlife/article2449968.ece).


I kept telling those fucking bees to just hang up and fly! But did they listen to me? Noooooooo.....

[founder81]

http://www.24-7simpsons.com/kent_brockman.jpg

I welcome our new Bee Overldords

[Ed Cunard]

We knew this in the early '80s, sadly.

http://caughtinthexfire.mu.nu/archives/snl_bee.jpg

[BlairH]

Does this mean we have reached peak honeybees?

[DarkBlade]

Isn't it from some sort of parasitic wasp? Or am I confusing lessons from a few years ago?

[Ed Cunard]

Isn't it from some sort of parasitic wasp? Or am I confusing lessons from a few years ago?

I'm pretty sure Belushi died from an overd--

Oh. The bees.

[Joe Grendel]

That was in the 90s,right? Weren't they the bees coming up through South America? If so, maybe they were pollenating some ganja and decided to stay put.

Most American hives south of ... I want to say Maryland ... are now "Africanized." They came, they interbred, they learned English, they joined the PTA, just like every immigrant wave before them.

Between the frogs and the bees, though, this is getting pretty grim.

[moebius]

I thought we were all doomed because the bees were going to kill us all.

We just can't win with them bees, can we?

[FanboyStranger]

I'm allergic to bees. (Like epi-pen or death allergic.) So while the whole environmental impact of the whole thing kinda sucks, I still see the glass as half full.

[Serik]

I'm allergic to bees. (Like epi-pen or death allergic.) So while the whole environmental impact of the whole thing kinda sucks, I still see the glass as half full.

That's the spirit! :D

[Chris Nowlin]

We just can't win with them bees, can we?

Can't live with 'em. Can't live without 'em.

Bees are like women.

Also they sting.

[Charles RB]

they say it's a complete mystery as to why the bees are vanishing.

Alien abductions.

[Sam T.]

Damnn....now is not the time to panic! Maybe the Bees will come back.

[Paul McEnery]

Alien abductions.

Have you ever tried to probe a bee's arse? Well, have you?

[OzBat!]

That just makes it more of a challenge!

Think about it... Crop Circles? THe remnants of UFOs chasing our pollenising honeybees.





... OMG! I've just figured it out! MARS NEEDS WOMEN!!

Only the martians have assumed the wrong type of pollenisation!

[Sophisticated_Gamer]

We still got a lot of pollen carrying insects...like butterflies!
And, bee populations migrate and fluctuate, it will be okay.
It's probably due to the severe climate changes.

[berk]

THis story reminds of that Douglas Adams bit about the dolphins leaving earth right before it's blown up.

[moebius]

Bees are like women.

Also they sting.

"No comment."

[Night]

Einstein said it himself, if the bees are gone, then in four years there will be no more food, no food means no animals and no people.Wait-a-minute.... 4 roughly 1/2 of 7 (integer math) .... The bees got our rapture?!!!!

[Mac Danny]

I thought we were all doomed because the bees were going to kill us all.

It's not the bees that get you, or the dogs.. It's the dogs with Bees in their mouths that shoot bees at you when they bark.

Speaking of which, has anyone checked dog mouths? They could be in there.

[Mac Danny]

This is all because of EVIL LITTLE SUZY...

http://www.arizonahikingtrails.com/journalimages/marythrowingrocks.jpg

Take THAT Bee Hive!!

[Mac Danny]

I can think of two people who are not happy about this..

http://content.answers.com/main/content/wp/en/thumb/4/4d/200px-BumblebeeMan.gif
Ai Dios Mio!

http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B000002UY5.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg

[J Dog]

We need bees, even when they are "defending themselves somehow".

As Stephen Colbert pointed out on a recent "Tip of the Hat, Wag of the Finger" (which, was all Wags) that bees make honey, and honey is eaten by BEARS! And if there is no honey, then the bears will go after us.

Actually, their pollenation of flowering plants is required to maintain a decent and beautiful enviroment.

[Drew Van T.]

2. Last I heard, scientists were already investigating whether the "bred in" pesticides contained in some GM flowering plants can poison the bees through the plant's pollen. The dose that a single bee might get may not be immediately fatal, but when the pollen is collected and converted into honey the biomagnification that occurs can cause problems for the bees.

If the culprit turns out to be genetically altered plants, there's a gigantic "I told you so" coming from the global environmentalist movement. They did tell you so.

I have no immediate numbers to back it up, but I would guess that there are far more GM flowers in America than anywhere else in the word because of the highly developed agricultural technologies and the government's lack of concern about the effects of GM?

[Kahnno6]

Finally my gas powered robotic bees will be considered marketible!

"Not good for the environment" they said.

"No market for this product" they said.

"You're dellusional" they said.

Well? What say you now World?!

[KrymynalChylde]

This is the best discussion ever by the way.

However, something I noticed while reading the posts. There are a LOT of Simpsons characters/episodes/quotes that have a lot to do with bees.

hmmmmmm, coincidence? I think not.....

[Ghost]

We still got a lot of pollen carrying insects...like butterflies!
And, bee populations migrate and fluctuate, it will be okay.
It's probably due to the severe climate changes.

True. I'd be much more worried about this if we didn't have bigger problems to worry about, like global warming and overconsumation. At least loosing the bees sounds like something we could deal with if we have to.

[Paul McEnery]

Wait-a-minute.... 4 roughly 1/2 of 7 (integer math) .... The bees got our rapture?!!!!

God: I took one look at Fred Phelps, and I changed my mind.

[Sabrina_Fried]

If the culprit turns out to be genetically altered plants, there's a gigantic "I told you so" coming from the global environmentalist movement. They did tell you so.

I have no immediate numbers to back it up, but I would guess that there are far more GM flowers in America than anywhere else in the word because of the highly developed agricultural technologies and the government's lack of concern about the effects of GM?

I don't have the numbers either, mainly because most of the companies that own the patents of GM plants make it very hard to GET the numbers, but compounding the problem is that once the plants are out of the lab, they tend to interbreed with "wild" plants and transfer their characteristics to them, so even if the big "I told you so" did happen, we'd still be screwed.

Of course, the bees are apparently WAY more screwed then we are at the moment, but I pin that down to one more Reason Why We Shouldn't Fuck With Nature (tm)

Sabrina

[Citizen V]

Attention must be brought to this,otherwise humanity will perish.Which is not that bad for the planet...

[founder81]

Attention must be brought to this,otherwise humanity will perish.Which is not that bad for the planet...


So this is all just a dastardly plot by Ra's Al Ghul?

omg, who we gonna call

Ghost Bust....

uhm

BATMAN HELP!!

[Alex]

Attention must be brought to this,otherwise humanity will perish.Which is not that bad for the planet...

the planet can suck my balls, if i'm dying, i'm taking it with me.
You hear that Earth? I just declared war, and this is a war you can't win, because i live in the midwest, in a city.
No earthquakes, no tornados touch us, and i live above the floodline.
You're going down earth, and i'm taking Mars out on a date.
Ruffies will be served, and she will have my babies!

[founder81]

Ruffies will be served, and she will have my babies!

:eek: :eek:
http://iml.jou.ufl.edu/CARLSON/mmc5015/homepages/s99/soodan/images/rufferto.jpg

What other plans do you have for this brave new world?

[Alex]

What other plans do you have for this brave new world?

Two rules, no russians, and I rule.
That's as far as i've gotten.

[founder81]

Two rules, no russians, and I rule.
That's as far as i've gotten.


If I can't marry my cousin, I'm moving to Shelbyville

[Alex]

If I can't marry my cousin, I'm moving to Shelbyville

Idiots won't question my reign, and inbreeding makes idiots.
Wait...no, idiots are the only ones who will question my reign!
But Shelbyville will be destroyed in my War on The World.

[founder81]

Idiots won't question my reign, and inbreeding makes idiots.
Wait...no, idiots are the only ones who will question my reign!
But Shelbyville will be destroyed in my War on The World.

What kind of Death benefits will I get?

[darkhanamaru]

so it looks like they may have found the cause for the recent colony collapses

Scientists may have discovered the cause of a devastating syndrome in honeybees that has destroyed 50% to 90% of hives in the USA — posing enormous problems for crops that depend on them to reproduce.

The culprit, reported in the journal Science Thursday, may be the Israeli acute paralysis (IAP) virus.

Colony collapse disorder, or CCD, first surfaced in 2004 in U.S. hives. It kills the worker bees that go out to find pollen. Theories on the cause have ranged from exposure to pollen from genetically modified crops to the impact of electronic waves from cellphone towers. None have panned out.

But using a new genetic technique to identify the various microbes and viruses that inhabit bees, scientists found a strong correlation between bees infected with the IAP virus and those from hives hit with CCD.

CCD’s impact on the $15-billion-a-year honeybee industry has hit the nation’s farms hard because of the role that bees play in natural cycles. The nimble insects pollinate 90% to 100% of at least 19 kinds of fruits, vegetables and nuts.

USAToday


Although the IAP virus was first identified in Israel, it originated in Australia. CCD started appearing in the USA the same year that U.S. beekeepers began importing bees from Australia.

Diana Cox-Foster at Pennsylvania State University and colleagues collected and tested samples from healthy and infected hives. The scientists identified seven viruses that infected bees, but the other six weren’t strongly associated with CCD.

“The only candidate that was left standing at the end of this fairly rigorous system was IAP,” said Ian Lipkin, an expert on immunopathogens at Columbia University and senior author of the paper. It’s unlikely that IAP is the sole reason for CCD, the researchers said. Multiple factors are probably involved.

Before 2004, bees could not be imported into the USA from outside North America under Department of Agriculture rules because of concerns about diseases. USDA is evaluating what its next step should be, said spokeswoman Andrea McNally.

The good news is that there are honeybees in Israel that are genetically resistant to IAP virus. “This adds yet more argument for the urgency of beekeepers to adopt genetically resistant stock,” said Keith Delaplane, an expert on honeybees at the University of Georgia in Athens.

[beetheb]

The good news is that there are honeybees in Israel that are genetically resistant to IAP virus. “This adds yet more argument for the urgency of beekeepers to adopt genetically resistant stock,” said Keith Delaplane, an expert on honeybees at the University of Georgia in Athens.So if we can't keep the Bee's alive with genetically modified Produce, genetically modify the Bee's!

And if genetically modified Bee's produce poison Honey and crops that kill Humans, genetically modify the humans!

Hell, this problem solves itself.

[howyadoin]

so it looks like they may have found the cause for the recent colony collapses

Scientists may have discovered the cause of a devastating syndrome in honeybees that has destroyed 50% to 90% of hives in the USA — posing enormous problems for crops that depend on them to reproduce.

The culprit, reported in the journal Science Thursday, may be the Israeli acute paralysis (IAP) virus.First Jesus, and now this?!

[darkhanamaru]

So if we can't keep the Bee's alive with genetically modified Produce, genetically modify the Bee's!

And if genetically modified Bee's produce poison Honey and crops that kill Humans, genetically modify the humans!

Hell, this problem solves itself.

there is no genetic modification. this is a naturally occuring resistance to the virus. it is common practice to import bees from other areas that are resistant to replace the hives that have collapsed.

[beetheb]

there is no genetic modification. this is a naturally occuring resistance to the virus. it is common practice to import bees from other areas that are resistant to replace the hives that have collapsed.Yeah, I'm pretty sure that, Genetically resistant stock or not, Humans will figure out a way to keep producing crops.

If we can modify plants at the genetic level, I'm fairly confident we can figure out a way to pollenate them without Bees.

[howyadoin]

Yeah, I'm pretty sure that, Genetically resistant stock or not, Humans will figure out a way to keep producing crops.

If we can modify plants at the genetic level, I'm fairly confident we can figure out a way to pollenate them without Bees.We could dust our pubic hair with plant pollen and then frolic in the fields.

[beetheb]

We could dust our pubic hair with plant pollen and then frolic in the fields.Exactly, just don't run through the Corn-fields backward.

[AoAMimic]

Yeah, I'm pretty sure that, Genetically resistant stock or not, Humans will figure out a way to keep producing crops.

If we can modify plants at the genetic level, I'm fairly confident we can figure out a way to pollenate them without Bees.

If we keep modifying plants in the US, I'm moving to Europe, where they aren't so moronic when it comes to ruining agriculture.

[Drew Van T.]

The Australian virus theory is all well and good, but there is no mention of the bees that died in Europe, where the crisis is less pronounced than in the US but nevertheless serious. Could it be the same virus? If not, what's killing them?

If we keep modifying plants in the US, I'm moving to Europe, where they aren't so moronic when it comes to ruining agriculture.

Oh, companies are trying very hard to screw with plants, but they're having a difficult time changing public opinion here.

[Drew Van T.]

First Jesus, and now this?!

No no...first Abraham. That loveable almost-child-killing coot.

[OverMaster]

Any bets on which one kills us all first, chicken flu or lack of bees?

[Shostie]

Any bets on which one kills us all first, chicken flu or lack of bees?

I'll put a fin on "killer asteroid" before I put any money on either of those.

[BYC]

I'm surprised the government haven't created pollen bombs yet.

"Damn those Russians, they're gonna hit the breadbasket!"
"No sir, they're helping us!"
"Jesus Christ, you're right. I guess those commie bastards have hearts after all"
"They haven't been communists in a while, sir..."
"..."

[Phrozen]

If we keep modifying plants in the US, I'm moving to Europe, where they aren't so moronic when it comes to ruining agriculture.

Uhhhhh. I hate to tell you this because I am sure you are going to stop eating but.....

Humans have been selecting for certain genetic traits since agriculutre began even before then in some cyclical migratory societies. Humans have been modifying plants since they began harvesting plants. Basically, all crops are much different from their wild ancestors.

[sehthan]

We could dust our pubic hair with plant pollen and then frolic in the fields.


We should do that anyway.


What we shouldn't do, no matter how tempting, is kill Nicholas Cage. Killing him won't bring back your goddamn honey.

[sehthan]

I'd be much more worried about this if we didn't have bigger problems to worry about, like global warming and overconsumation.


Which leads to overpopulation.

[Roquefort Raider]

Which leads to overpopulation.

Those frolics in the corn field have got to stop!!!

[Roquefort Raider]

Basically, all crops are much different from their wild ancestors.

Like that monocultured, clonal, triploid, sterile and seedless monster we all know and love: the banana.

[Dreadstar]

Those frolics in the corn field have got to stop!!!

Well, duh. EVERYONE knows that bees don't pollinate corn.

[AoAMimic]

Uhhhhh. I hate to tell you this because I am sure you are going to stop eating but.....

Humans have been selecting for certain genetic traits since agriculutre began even before then in some cyclical migratory societies. Humans have been modifying plants since they began harvesting plants. Basically, all crops are much different from their wild ancestors.

Really? No kidding? Have we also been injecting the ebola virus into the genetic structure of corn so it can be "Round-Up Ready"? No, didn't think so. Cross pollinating two types of plants to come up with a different flavor combination is one thing, going in and altering the genetic structure of a plant by adding deadly viruses to make them susceptible to pesticides is another entirely. Millions Against Monsanto:

http://www.organicconsumers.org/monlink.cfm

[AoAMimic]

Hmm...that came off a bit too snarky. Sorry about that. I'm at a breaking point concerning the US population's willful ignorance about food production. Not you, per se, but in general. The more I read about it (and see things like the documentary Future of Food), the more frustrated I become.

Also, my brother is an farmer and my sister is training in sustainable agriculture and works for a goat dairy. On the flip side my brother-in-law works for a university doing genetic modification on plants. I have yet to hear a worthwhile argument for mucking with plant genetics.

[Black Atom]

Einstein said it himself, if the bees are gone, then in four years there will be no more food, no food means no animals and no people.

Yeah. When exactly would he have said that?

"If this bomb is as destructive as you say it is, Albert, we just may win this war."

"You know vhat else is destructive...?"

"Christ, not the fucking bee thing again."

[Jack Zodiac]

Also, my brother is an farmer and my sister is training in sustainable agriculture and works for a goat dairy. On the flip side my brother-in-law works for a university doing genetic modification on plants. I have yet to hear a worthwhile argument for mucking with plant genetics.

Being able to grow them in arctic and desert climates, allowing for more food production and sustainable farming in third world countries? Genetically altering them for higher yields per season? Two of the biggest and best reasons.

[howyadoin]

Being able to grow them in arctic and desert climates, allowing for more food production and sustainable farming in third world countries? Genetically altering them for higher yields per season? Two of the biggest and best reasons.Call me when they grow corn that can pop itself.

[Jack Zodiac]

If they could genetically engineer self-buttering corn and grow it in the Sahara, we might be able to create popcorn fields.

[howyadoin]

If they could genetically engineer self-buttering corn...... it would revolutionize pornography.

[Jack Zodiac]

What has science done!?!

[sehthan]

If they could genetically engineer self-buttering corn and grow it in the Sahara, we might be able to create popcorn fields.


Is it just me, or does Popcorn Fields sound like a lost Globetrotter? Also, delicious.

[Ben Morgan]

I thought we were all doomed because the bees were going to kill us all.No, that's just you, they're plotting your demise

[CoffeeStained]

I need help making a joke about Jessica Alba and I having sex and making 'Honey'. Which you guys can eat, for all I care.



The honey, not Jessica.

[Sabrina_Fried]

Okay, so how many "reasons" for colony collapse disorder are there now? I think I lost track after the first dozen.

Oh, and while I will not claim to be a doctorate of Science or anything, selective breeding != genetic engineering!

Selective breeding is a scattershot technique that may take generations for the organism to express the desired trait, if it works, but the genetic material involved all comes from the same genus, at least. You might be able to cross breed donkeys and horses to create mules, but all three animals are still from the same genus.

Genetic engineering can cross just about anything. Which is why you can take genes from spiders and insert them into genes from goats so that they can produce certain enzymes in their milk. Or genes from fish into tomatoes, etc.

Try getting a goat and a spider to get it on the "old fashioned" way.

Sabrina

[Lightbend]

Try getting a goat and a spider to get it on the "old fashioned" way.

Sabrina

The trick is to keep the spider's head from exploding.

[Phrozen]

Okay, so how many "reasons" for colony collapse disorder are there now? I think I lost track after the first dozen.

Oh, and while I will not claim to be a doctorate of Science or anything, selective breeding != genetic engineering!

Selective breeding is a scattershot technique that may take generations for the organism to express the desired trait, if it works, but the genetic material involved all comes from the same genus, at least. You might be able to cross breed donkeys and horses to create mules, but all three animals are still from the same genus.

Genetic engineering can cross just about anything. Which is why you can take genes from spiders and insert them into genes from goats so that they can produce certain enzymes in their milk. Or genes from fish into tomatoes, etc.

Try getting a goat and a spider to get it on the "old fashioned" way.

Sabrina


Is that any different from genetically altering bacteria to create insulin? That is where all the insulin comes from. Selective breeding can also create two very different creatures. Teosinte which is a grass and corn. Teosinte is the ancestor of corn but looks nothing like it.

Selective breeding isn't actually as scattershot as you believe it to be. Most of the breeds of dogs in the world today were created in the last 250 years or so because people selectively breed for traits. Be it speed, intelligence, aggressiveness, sense of smell, etc.

Genetic engineering of crops right now is basically speeding up what people would be selectively breeding for: larger crop yield, resistence to disease, hardier crops that can be planted in varied climates, etc.

[Lee Kaye]

Any bets on which one kills us all first, chicken flu or lack of bees?

Rabid otters.

You heard it here first people.

[AoAMimic]

Being able to grow them in arctic and desert climates, allowing for more food production and sustainable farming in third world countries? Genetically altering them for higher yields per season? Two of the biggest and best reasons.

Why would you be growing anything in those climates? The Inuit have a diet mostly devoid of fruits and vegetables. Their bodies have adapted to deriving nutrition from a diet consisting mostly of meat, and are able to survive just fine. They don't need a grapefruit tree.

There are tons of natural farming techniques that could be applied in third world countries to produce more...produce. We might want to work on problems like American farm subsidies first, which depress third world markets and ruin farmers in those markets.

Again, there are lots of natural, time-tested farming techniques involving crop rotation and cover crops that keep fields healthy and yields high. As a country, we turned the future of agriculture entirely over to corporate farms and big business scientists during the "Green Revolution" and ended up with fields saturated with poisons. My brother plowed a field the other day and found an old bottle of bee poison. Bee poison! Some company actually convinced farmers to buy poison for bees, the very creatures keeping their crops alive!

[sehthan]

My brother plowed a field the other day and found an old bottle of bee poison. Bee poison!


Finally, we're getting to the bottom of this mystery!

[Jack Zodiac]

Why would you be growing anything in those climates?

Why not?

Y'know what, I don't fucking care. When "natural" farming processes manage to save the lives of hundred of millions of starving people in third world countries, I'll give a shit what you have to say. In the meantime, I'll continue building my shrine to Norman Borlaug.

[Night]

Genetic engineering can cross just about anything. Which is why you can take genes from spiders and insert them into genes from goats so that they can produce certain enzymes in their milk. Or genes from fish into tomatoes, etc.

Try getting a goat and a spider to get it on the "old fashioned" way.

SabrinaLet's see thousands of goats, with a spider's abilities and reproduction cycles... sounds like the beginning of a bee movie. :P

[Sean Walsh]

Blast. And here I killed a bee last weekend that was trying to sting me.

I'VE HELPED SHORTEN THE TIME TO THE APOCALYPSE!!!!!!!!!!!!!11111111

That was in the 90s,right? Weren't they the bees coming up through South America? If so, maybe they were pollenating some ganja and decided to stay put.

The 90's? I swear there was a thread here a few days ago about the renewed threat of the South American bee wave that was currently destroying Peru or something.

[Grazzt]

Some company actually convinced farmers to buy poison for bees, the very creatures keeping their crops alive!

Nitpick, bees don't keep crops alive, they enable crops to breed.

And saying "natural farming" sounds like an oxymoron to me. Unless you use it to mean "foraging". Farming is in itself a very unnatural act, forcing the land to grow plants in higher concentration and with much less diversity than they would otherwise.

[Dreadstar]

Nevermind, wrong thread.

[fly on the wall]

Honeybees have all but disappeared from our area for about five years; however, other little insects and minibees have filled in for pollenizing and we got peppers and tomatoes without having to indivually pollenizing by hand.

And if it was the cell phones that are killing the honeybees would we ban the use of them? I don't think we would. It's like CO2 is heating up the world and destroying ecosystems but we still let people drive around in cars.

Could you imagine the squawk if we tried to take away people's cellphones. "You'll take my cell phone when you pry it out of my cold dead fingers."

Basically we are still infants.

[howyadoin]

Could you imagine the squawk if we tried to take away people's cellphones. "You'll take my cell phone when you pry it out of my cold dead fingers." The NPA would never let that happen.

[AoAMimic]

Nitpick, bees don't keep crops alive, they enable crops to breed.

And saying "natural farming" sounds like an oxymoron to me. Unless you use it to mean "foraging". Farming is in itself a very unnatural act, forcing the land to grow plants in higher concentration and with much less diversity than they would otherwise.


I'll grant you the nitpicks, I was a little too loose with my wording. I know some folks have that goal, to reintroduce domesticated plants and create a natural forage area versus a strict farm environment. My use of "natural farming" is as opposed to chemical farming, not the natural habits of plants.

[AoAMimic]

Why not?

Y'know what, I don't fucking care. When "natural" farming processes manage to save the lives of hundred of millions of starving people in third world countries, I'll give a shit what you have to say. In the meantime, I'll continue building my shrine to Norman Borlaug.

When chemical companies and their farming processes stop killing hundreds of millions of people in third world countries, we might find some middle ground to work on.

Would you like some green tea? You sound a little stressed. Try going outside. Listen to the wind in the trees.

[Phrozen]

When chemical companies and their farming processes stop killing hundreds of millions of people in third world countries, we might find some middle ground to work on.

Would you like some green tea? You sound a little stressed. Try going outside. Listen to the wind in the trees.

I am pretty sure that shitty and unstable government, clan & tribal warfare, and rampant diseases like dysentary, AIDS, and TB have more to do with millions dying in Africa then chemical farming does. Last I checked most African economists want GM foods because they are hardier and produce more.

[beetheb]

Funny, I just returned from visting relatives in Oklahoma for whom this story hit pretty close to home.

A great-uncle of mine apparently had something like 20 Hives that were in full production till about 2 years ago, when apparently CCD wiped out all but 2 of them. Now, he has been in semi-retirement for years, and has always had multiple sources of income, so it didn't hit him quite as hard as it might have, but there are many people out there (some partners of his) that have really been hurt by it.

It was really odd to hear this story only after having discussed the very same topic in a CBR thread weeks prior. Really begs the question of whether or not this "Bee" thing is more significant than we seem to be letting on.

[Jack Zodiac]

Would you like some green tea? You sound a little stressed. Try going outside. Listen to the wind in the trees.

The day I get stressed out by some schmuck on the Internet is the day I set my computer on fire.

[sabongero]

Just like a lot of other news, it seems this topic was over-rated in the news. You don't even hear about it in the news anymore. Sort of like the bird flu "epidemic"...yeah we are in big trouble aren't we.

[AoAMimic]

The day I get stressed out by some schmuck on the Internet is the day I set my computer on fire.

Awww...schmuck? Jack, I'm hurt. You know, I haven't posted regularly in the last 10 years I've been here, but I do read sometimes. I saw in another thread that you missed me. And here I come back and you say stuff like that. You know what they say, be careful what you wish for...

[Night]

Just like a lot of other news, it seems this topic was over-rated in the news. You don't even hear about it in the news anymore. Sort of like the bird flu "epidemic"...yeah we are in big trouble aren't we. Yeah... when the nation has a problem with the birds and the bees, there's no future.