Batman sales rankings: March, 2007

[Captain Jim]

This is something I used to do when I moderated the Batman forum a few years back: list the sales rankings of the various Batman “family” titles in a given month. I find it interesting to see how the titles sell in relation to one another and to all the other comics on the market. Here is the info for March, 2007; the first number is sales ranking this month, the number in parenthesis is the previous month’s ranking (in this case, February 2007).


#17 Batman #664 (15)

#19 Superman/ Batman #32 (19)

#39 Detective #829 (41)

#41 Detective #830 (43)

#56 Batman Confidential #4 (57)

#71 Nightwing #130 (71)

#76 Birds of Prey #104 (77)
#77 Robin #160 (79)

#103 Catwoman #65 (105)

Observations: Naturally “Batman” leads the pack. I was a bit surprised to see that Superman/ Batman comes second, though. Sure, it’s going to pull in fans from both characters, but given all the delays lately, plus the lackluster reviews, I was still surprised. This (finally) is the end of the initial OYL arc; I wonder how many others (like myself) plan to drop it now?

No big surprise relative to Detective (two issues this month). However, I would suggest that the fact that Confidential is only ranked at #56, a mere four issues into its run, is not a good sign of things to come.

Another surprise to me: Nightwing sales have really fallen from a few years back. In March, 2001, it ranked #35; in March, 2002, #39. Now we’re clear up to #71—and that’s during a time when the writer and artist are reasonably well received! This tells me that lots of people have bailed on Nightwing and have been disappointed with how it’s been handled in recent months (years?). Too bad; there’s so much potential here. :(

I knew Catwoman sales were not good, but I still lament this greatly. This remains one of my favorite DC titles each month. I encourage you to check it out if you have not done so recently. (Rankings over #100 not currently available; this will be updated when figures are announced.)

Any comments/ thoughts from anybody else?

[Mia]

Observations: Naturally “Batman” leads the pack. I was a bit surprised to see that Superman/ Batman comes second, though. Sure, it’s going to pull in fans from both characters, but given all the delays lately, plus the lackluster reviews, I was still surprised. This (finally) is the end of the initial OYL arc; I wonder how many others (like myself) plan to drop it now?

I actually love Verheiden's book. I love the way in which he writes dialogue. I especially like the way he writes Batman, as a more fleshed out human being and less like 'Mr. Spock'. I don't normally like 'science fiction' based comics but I am actually really enjoying it on this book. And I think Verheiden's dialogue is a great factor.





Another surprise to me: Nightwing sales have really fallen from a few years back. In March, 2001, it ranked #35; in March, 2002, #39. Now we’re clear up to #71—and that’s during a time when the writer and artist are reasonably well received! This tells me that lots of people have bailed on Nightwing and have been disappointed with how it’s been handled in recent months (years?). Too bad; there’s so much potential here. :(


Don't get me wrong I'm enjoying this book. And it is a welcome respite from the disastrous Grayson/Jones tenure. But I just don't like it as much as Chuck Dixon's run. I know that Marv is just starting. But I liked Dixon's run in that it explored all facets of Dick's life. Whether that be in costume as Nightwing, his interactions with his fellow police officers on the Bludhaven PD, or his relationship with Barbara Gordon. Yes that's all gone now. But what this book needs is drama and action. That's usually what readers like and what sells. Not just issue after issue of NW in costume fighting nut jobs.



I knew Catwoman sales were not good, but I still lament this greatly. This remains one of my favorite DC titles each month. I encourage you to check it out if you have not done so recently. (Rankings over #100 not currently available; this will be updated when figures are announced.)



I think that the problem with Catwoman is two fold. First there are the people who hate it because baby Helena is not Bruce/Batman's (was never going to happen). Second---and I really think that this the biggest problem is that people don't like Catwoman as a mommy. Many prefer the 'bon vivant' Catwoman re-knowed for thumbing her nose at society. And they think that the kid is a damper on the child. There's a small blurb in the most recent issue of Wizard with Will Pheiffer where he talks about the baby and a big descision that Selina will have to make where Helena is concerned. I strongly believe she will give up her baby. Hopefully to Holly and Karon so that she can keep an eye on her. But I know that the baby story has not caught on fire with many.

[Corrina]

Well, Catwoman deciding to become a single mother is pretty out of character, or at least out of character for the revamp that started with Brubaker.

Don't believe me? Read "Selina's Big Score." Sorry, that character just would *not* become a mom. Plus, there's all the not-fun of watching the baby be kidnapped or otherwise put in peril.

[stealthwise]

Well, Catwoman deciding to become a single mother is pretty out of character, or at least out of character for the revamp that started with Brubaker.

Don't believe me? Read "Selina's Big Score." Sorry, that character just would *not* become a mom. Plus, there's all the not-fun of watching the baby be kidnapped or otherwise put in peril.

The baby finally got kidnapped eh? I was waiting for that, and the anticipation of the cliche was honestly what kept me from picking up the book despite numerous positive reviews ever since Pfifer started writing it.

Ten bucks says that the baby dies within the next year or so to "motivate" Selina to take up the cat mantle... if that hasn't happened already.

[Captain Jim]

Ten bucks says that the baby dies within the next year or so to "motivate" Selina to take up the cat mantle... if that hasn't happened already.

Selina was back in costume almost immediately.

[Captain Jim]

Well, Catwoman deciding to become a single mother is pretty out of character, or at least out of character for the revamp that started with Brubaker.

Well, in fairness, it's not like she just sat down and "decided to become a single mother." I mean, it's not like she said, "Hey, let's go make a baby!" It just happened. As far as I'm concerned, that's pretty realistic; it happens in the real world all the time. It's only in fiction that people can constantly be sexually active without any consequences.

So Selina finds herself pregnant and needs to make a choice--still pretty realistic in my book. There's basically three alternatives: have an abortion, give the child up, or try to raise the child herself as a single mother. (Marrying the father would have been another choice if he were still alive, but he died almost immediately.) You think it's out of character for her to want to raise the child herself? I disagree; as a strong, independent woman, it makes perfect sense to me. I'm not saying it's the best choice, only that it makes sense to me that she would want to attempt it. Whether that remains her choice in the long run remains to be seen.

If you don't think she would have made this choice, which do you think she WOULD have made and why?

I think people are selling this book short. Just because she's a mother now doesn't mean the stories are suddenly all about the baby. She was back in costume, on the streets almost immediately, dealing with the consequences of her failed attempt to make Holly the new Catwoman.

[Mia]

Here's the blurb from Wizard.


Maybe Baby?

Catwoman with a baby? We like the idea of Selina feeding into the whole "lioness protecting her cub" thing, but really, how's this going to play itself out over the long haul?
"She's going to have to make a decision: Can shek be both Catwoman and be a mother?" says Catwoman writer Will Pheiffer. "I'm not going to say which way it's going to go, but I know I've had my daughter for almost a year and you can't imagine life without her. I want to wrtie Catwoman as realistic as [possible]. I want the readers to really feel lher pain in making any sort of decision, whether it's to give up her previous life for a new oner or to give up her new life to try and see what she can do to recapture her previous one."
-Wizard #187





In the end I don't think that it really matters how appealing Selina's being a mom to Pheiffer. If sales are plunging (as they seem to be) because readers can't cotton on to the notion of a domesticated Selina. Then it's going to have to reverse itself. I was all for her being a mother. Until Sam was killed off. I would really rather her give the child up.

[Captain Jim]

That certainly would be more logical, given her lifestyle--and in the end she may. But given her personality, I think it makes perfect sense for her to want to keep the child.

But I really don't think the current storyline *is* presenting a "domesticated Selina," despite what the perception may be. But you're right, DC has to deal with people's perceptions, irregardless of what the reality may be.

[DonC]

I'm also disappointed with the fact Catwoman is the lowest-setting Bat-title. I started reading with OYL later and, in my opinion, it is the most conisistantly good book in the Batman Family.

Nightwing, honestly, should be falling in sales. Quality has been way down. Bruce Jones was horrible. Marv Wolfman's first efforts aren't anything to write home about either. What this title needs, in my opinion, if a major DC villain to show up. It's been said a hero is only as interesting as the villains he fights. Well, the villains in OYL Nightwing have been boring. Bring in some baddie currently in limbo and make him the new featured villain. It worked with Blockbuster, why not do it again?

[wes_rk]

I'm a little surprised S/B did better than Detective... is this the usual result or was it because last month Detective wasn't written by Dini?

I hope Nightwing can pick up the pase, maybe those readers that left in the past year can come back with the current creative team. BOP and Robin are pretty much in the same space. And what about Catwoman? Wasn't this book selling well for the past year? I got that impression at least. I read it every month.

[TheWraith]

They basically ruined Catwoman, but then some of these characters really shouldn't have ongoing titles in the first place. Some culling is in order.

[Captain Jim]

They basically ruined Catwoman, but then some of these characters really shouldn't have ongoing titles in the first place. Some culling is in order.

If you're going to make a sweeping statement like that about what some of us consider the best bat-book at the moment, the least you could do is try to back it up. Otherwise it's little more than a troll post.

[mgs]

I hate how month in, month out, all across the board with so many comics, some of the best ones are some of the lowest sellers. The only satisfaction I get is knowing in that each comic that I treasure, like the current Catwoman run, others who get comics simply because of habit/completion of a collection, they will eventually trash/sell them, while I try and get comics that I genuinely get some self-satisfaction out of and have no intention of selling until the day I die.

[Captain Jim]

I'm a little surprised S/B did better than Detective... is this the usual result or was it because last month Detective wasn't written by Dini?

I just checked. There were no issues of S/B in January or February (part of the problem with this title I alluded to...). The last issue was #31, which came out in December. It ranked at #18, compared to Detective #826, which ranked #30. And this WAS a Dini issue. Curiously, S/B also did better than Batman this month (which ranked #23), but this was an Ostrander issue, not Morrison.

[TheWraith]

If sales are down, then perhaps that is more instructive as to what readers think of the title than anything else, Captain Jim. That's hardly a troll post :rolleyes: Despite your own opinion, you know there are a lot of people who don't like what was done to Catwoman, and I think its current sales position reflects that. Sales are where it counts in the end, and it appears to me that readers have voted with their wallets. The proof is in the pudding.

[Mia]

If sales are down, then perhaps that is more instructive as to what readers think of the title than anything else, Captain Jim. That's hardly a troll post :rolleyes:.

CJ called your post a 'troll post' because you made an inflamatory statement (which is basically what a troll does and what you in fact did) without anything to back it up.







Despite your own opinion, you know there are a lot of people who don't like what was done to Catwoman, and I think its current sales position reflects that. Sales are where it counts in the end, and it appears to me that readers have voted with their wallets. The proof is in the pudding.

Not necessarily. Your argument would hold water if Catwoman had been a great seller. Then it plunged. But the truth of the matter is the book has never been a good seller, even before Selina had a baby.



CATWOMAN #42 $2.50 DC 21,029
CATWOMAN #43 $2.50 DC 20,818
CATWOMAN #44 $2.50 DC 21,574
CATWOMAN #45 $2.50 DC 20,848
CATWOMAN #46 $2.50 DC 20,702
CATWOMAN #48 $2.50 DC 21,104
CATWOMAN #49 $2.50 DC 21,257
CATWOMAN #50 $2.50 DC 24,136
CATWOMAN #51 $2.50 DC 22,681
CATWOMAN #52 $2.50 DC 21,954

CATWOMAN #53 $2.50 DC 28,473 --OYL
CATWOMAN #54 $2.50 DC 28,922
CATWOMAN #55 $2.99 DC 30,184
CATWOMAN #56 $2.99 DC 28,942
CATWOMAN #58 $2.99 DC 26,568
CATWOMAN #59 $2.99 DC 25,324
CATWOMAN #60 $2.99 DC 24,117
CATWOMAN #61 $2.99 DC 23,182
CATWOMAN #62 $2.99 DC 22,305
CATWOMAN #63 $2.99 DC 21,597
CATWOMAN #64 $2.99 DC 20,767



http://www.icv2.com/articles/news/1850.html


It's obvious that people came on for the OYL arc. Didnt' like it and didn't bother to stay. The sales levels are right back to where they were before. Sales does not equal quality.

[dupersuper]

At least it's still above 20,000...

[The Zapper]

I don't understand the logic of making Catwoman a mom. It seems to go against the characters history in almost every way. It just seems off, and the numbers not staying high, or dropping (depending on how you want to look at it) shows that while it may not be "ruining the character", it's doesn't seem to be a story that's really catching on either. Dropping back down to regular isn't terrible, but it's not great either.

[Powerboy]

Where do you get the ratings from? I would be curious to see what the overall comic book sales are, what is number one and so on.

[Rupertmetal]

Are these rankings out of DC comics or all comics?

Either way I'm suprised Batman and Detective comics are that low.

Nightwing being that low doesn't suprise me though. I just buy it now because he is in the Batman Family, not because I think its great.

Also, I can't believe Nightwing and Birds of Prey is above Robin. Detective Comics and Robin have been my favorite books lately.

If Catwoman is a mom than who is the dad?

[TheWraith]

Nothing I said was inflammatory in any way, shape or form, what nonsense!

You're right, sales don't equal quality, but continued bad sales = no book. And people are leaving the Catwoman title, and people are not liking the fact they made Catwoman a mother. All fact.

[GeorgeG]

I bailed on Nightwing after Jones' run. And I haven't heard anything of Wolfman's present run that says that I'm missing anything. People haven't been saying it's been great, just so-so. I've read too many so-so to bad Nightwing stories in the past few years and don't think I'll get the value for the money spent. I'll wait 'til DC puts a creative team I have interest in on the title.

The Catwoman title lost it well before Pfeifer took over and the forced-upon him story plot of Selina having a child. Brubaker got too dark with his stories and the stories as a whole just weren't good enough. The Egyptian ninja storyline was enough for me.

Batman, well, Grant Morrison is hit or miss with me with a lot more misses recently IMO. I enjoyed his JLA, but since then I can't say much for his story telling.

Robin's characterization has regressed and doesn't seem to be the confidant, proven and intelligent hero any more.

I'm guessing that the numbers for Detective was for fill-in issues. If not, I think that's a bit of a concern as I think Dini has written some incredible stories, maybe except for the Ivy issue.

[kello]

I'm a little surprised S/B did better than Detective... is this the usual result or was it because last month Detective wasn't written by Dini?

I thought it was weird too, but I attribute it to the Superman and Batman completists who just buy the book based on title alone.

[Captain Jim]

Sales are where it counts in the end, and it appears to me that readers have voted with their wallets.

Absolutely.

[Captain Jim]

CJ called your post a 'troll post' because you made an inflamatory statement (which is basically what a troll does and what you in fact did) without anything to back it up.

Correct, and The Wraith seems to have totally missed my point. You don't have to like the comics I like; I never said or implied that. But if you're going to make a statement like "they ruined Catwoman" (which *is* inflammatory, despite what you say), then back it up. Tell us what they did that ruined the book for you, give us some examples of what you don't like (assuming you've actually read some issues and are capable of doing this). To post "they ruined Catwoman" is no different than going on the X-Men board and posting "Wolverine sucks" and that's all. Yep, pretty close to trolling. But notice I said it was "little more" than a troll post; I didn't call it a troll post per se. Pretty darn close, though.

[Captain Jim]

it doesn't seem to be a story that's really catching on either.

Absolutely correct.

[Captain Jim]

Where do you get the ratings from? I would be curious to see what the overall comic book sales are, what is number one and so on.

These particular ones came from Newsarama, but CBR has posted them in the past as well. Many comic sites pick this info up from Diamond (on whose site you can also find it).

[Captain Jim]

Are these rankings out of DC comics or all comics?

All comics.

If Catwoman is a mom than who is the dad?


It was a mystery for several months, but the father has recently been revealed as the recently deceased Slam Bradley, Jr..

[Captain Jim]

You're right, sales don't equal quality, but continued bad sales = no book.

Absolutely; hence my concern. Although you seemed to imply in your original post that Catwoman shouldn't have her own book.

And people are leaving the Catwoman title, and people are not liking the fact they made Catwoman a mother. All fact.

No, not really. As Mia pointed out earlier, Catwoman sales weren't all that great before OYL (which is where she became a mother). In fact, sales have been pretty stable (which means people haven't been leaving). And since sales have been unaffected by Catwoman's maternity, you really have no basis for your final statement.

[Captain Jim]

I'm guessing that the numbers for Detective was for fill-in issues. If not, I think that's a bit of a concern as I think Dini has written some incredible stories, maybe except for the Ivy issue.

Yes, these were non-Dini issues, but issues with Dini are only slightly higher. But this is not a bad ranking at all.

[Captain Jim]

I finally found the ranking for Catwoman in March; it was #103.

[elias_A]

The really interesting lists with the actual numbers estimates and month-to-month comparisons should be up on Heidi MacDonald's The Beat soon (Marvel's already is.)


Superman/Batman has always sold better than the Batman solo titles, hasn't it? It's more some sort of JLA title to me.

To Catwoman:
It may be realistic for Selina to have a baby, but it's not a story I'm interested in (but I already wasn't impressed with what Pfeiffer did before OYL).

The Catwoman I want to read about is being chased by Batman over the rooftops.

Not that Brubaker's noir stuff wasn't good, but I think he never managed to find a convincing status quo and mission-statement for Selina - just protecting her neighbourhood isn't enough. It could work, but needs something more. Catwoman is interesting because she is a thief who isn't evil - just a superhero with darker world view is not the same.
I would recommend to use also the high-society Selina, a huge aspect of the character, and let her enjoy stealing diamonds again. Between that and her activities as protector of the east end could be established an interesting inner conflict.

[elias_A]

Here's the link:

http://pwbeat.publishersweekly.com/blog/2007/04/26/dc-comics-month-to-month-sales-march-2007/

[Mia]

To Catwoman:
It may be realistic for Selina to have a baby, but it's not a story I'm interested in (but I already wasn't impressed with what Pfeiffer did before OYL).

The Catwoman I want to read about is being chased by Batman over the rooftops.

Not that Brubaker's noir stuff wasn't good, but I think he never managed to find a convincing status quo and mission-statement for Selina - just protecting her neighbourhood isn't enough. It could work, but needs something more. Catwoman is interesting because she is a thief who isn't evil - just a superhero with darker world view is not the same.
I would recommend to use also the high-society Selina, a huge aspect of the character, and let her enjoy stealing diamonds again. Between that and her activities as protector of the east end could be established an interesting inner conflict.

Well that's true. I think many people would like the book if Selina went back to performing intricate heists and outwitting and the authorities and Batman. Sort of like what Chuck Dixon did with the character

Catwoman is a free spirit and a bit of a bohemian. I think it's wrong or just does not work to try and fit the character into the model of domesticity. If/when Pheiffer has Selina give up her child. He should place her in more globe trotting stories.


I bailed on Nightwing after Jones' run. And I haven't heard anything of Wolfman's present run that says that I'm missing anything. People haven't been saying it's been great, just so-so. I've read too many so-so to bad Nightwing stories in the past few years and don't think I'll get the value for the money spent. I'll wait 'til DC puts a creative team I have interest in on the title.




I agree with you. It's okay, but it isn't a must read. Most of the accolades I'm reading seem to be from readers of NW during his Titans days and who think that everything Marv puts out where NW concerned is bonafide gold.

I've read praises about the book due to the fact that it's the best thing we've had NW related in years. But that's not much of a compliment considering that what Grayson and Jones did was pure rubbish. Marv really needs to pick up the pace of the stories. Or when his 12 issue tenure is over, then put Marc Andreyko on the book. He certainly proved with the annual that he deserves to write the book.

[shadow knight]

Well that's true. I think many people would like the book if Selina went back to performing intricate heists and outwitting and the authorities and Batman. Sort of like what Chuck Dixon did with the character

Catwoman is a free spirit and a bit of a bohemian. I think it's wrong or just does not work to try and fit the character into the model of domesticity. If/when Pheiffer has Selina give up her child. He should place her in more globe trotting stories.




I agree with you. It's okay, but it isn't a must read. Most of the accolades I'm reading seem to be from readers of NW during his Titans days and who think that everything Marv puts out where NW concerned is bonafide gold.

I've read praises about the book due to the fact that it's the best thing we've had NW related in years. But that's not much of a compliment considering that what Grayson and Jones did was pure rubbish. Marv really needs to pick up the pace of the stories. Or when his 12 issue tenure is over, then put Marc Andreyko on the book. He certainly proved with the annual that he deserves to write the book.
What the Suits at DC can't seem to get through their thck skull, it that sometime change for change sake is wrong. You give Catwoman a baby, with someone no one wanted her to have a baby with, would it have been so bad to give Selina a child by Bruce? After that you casually kill of the father of the baby. On top of that the seies seems to belurching going nowhere.

How this for an idea? make the baby Bruce but he doesn't know he's a father, but slowly over the next couple of years he adds 2 and 2 together. You could easily write almost 5 years worth of stories, from the detective, soap opera, legal, financial aspect of that story alone. Let alone the fact they have an attraction and love for one another yet neither are willing to completely change for the other.

[GeorgeG]

Well that's true. I think many people would like the book if Selina went back to performing intricate heists and outwitting and the authorities and Batman. Sort of like what Chuck Dixon did with the character

Catwoman is a free spirit and a bit of a bohemian. I think it's wrong or just does not work to try and fit the character into the model of domesticity. If/when Pheiffer has Selina give up her child. He should place her in more globe trotting stories.




I agree with you. It's okay, but it isn't a must read. Most of the accolades I'm reading seem to be from readers of NW during his Titans days and who think that everything Marv puts out where NW concerned is bonafide gold.

I've read praises about the book due to the fact that it's the best thing we've had NW related in years. But that's not much of a compliment considering that what Grayson and Jones did was pure rubbish. Marv really needs to pick up the pace of the stories. Or when his 12 issue tenure is over, then put Marc Andreyko on the book. He certainly proved with the annual that he deserves to write the book.

Andreyko won't sell more issues than Wolfman.

[GeorgeG]

What the Suits at DC can't seem to get through their thck skull, it that sometime change for change sake is wrong. You give Catwoman a baby, with someone no one wanted her to have a baby with, would it have been so bad to give Selina a child by Bruce? After that you casually kill of the father of the baby. On top of that the seies seems to belurching going nowhere.

How this for an idea? make the baby Bruce but he doesn't know he's a father, but slowly over the next couple of years he adds 2 and 2 together. You could easily write almost 5 years worth of stories, from the detective, soap opera, legal, financial aspect of that story alone. Let alone the fact they have an attraction and love for one another yet neither are willing to completely change for the other.

I wonder if Pfeifer was going to make it Bruce's kid in the beginning, but that was nixed because of Morrison's Batman & Son storyline.

Anyway one cuts it, it was a poor decision on DC's part to take the character in this direction.

[TheWraith]

What the Suits at DC can't seem to get through their thck skull, it that sometime change for change sake is wrong. You give Catwoman a baby, with someone no one wanted her to have a baby with, would it have been so bad to give Selina a child by Bruce? After that you casually kill of the father of the baby. On top of that the seies seems to belurching going nowhere.

How this for an idea? make the baby Bruce but he doesn't know he's a father, but slowly over the next couple of years he adds 2 and 2 together. You could easily write almost 5 years worth of stories, from the detective, soap opera, legal, financial aspect of that story alone. Let alone the fact they have an attraction and love for one another yet neither are willing to completely change for the other.

Agreed, shadow knight.

[Captain Jim]

Andreyko won't sell more issues than Wolfman.

That's simply a statement of opinion and one I don't necessarily agree with. I think there's a lot of people out there who like Nightwing and WANT to read this book, if the writing is of sufficient quality. For instance, I remember several people saying on this board that they tried Wolfman's Nightwing, but found it of mediocre quallity, so they left again.

The question is, "Can Andreyko deliver?" I have yet to pick up the Nightwing annual from my local store (been very busy here), so I can't comment on the writing of the annual yet (though I am encouraged by all the positive responses to it here). However, I know the man is capable based on his outstanding work on Manhunter.

The problem with MH is that it's not a book (or a character) that most people want to read (alas), no matter how good it is. However, match the same writer with a character people desperately DO want to read, and you MAY have a match made in heaven.

[Mia]

That's simply a statement of opinion and one I don't necessarily agree with. I think there's a lot of people out there who like Nightwing and WANT to read this book, if the writing is of sufficient quality. For instance, I remember several people saying on this board that they tried Wolfman's Nightwing, but found it of mediocre quallity, so they left again.

The question is, "Can Andreyko deliver?" I have yet to pick up the Nightwing annual from my local store (been very busy here), so I can't comment on the writing of the annual yet (though I am encouraged by all the positive responses to it here). However, I know the man is capable based on his outstanding work on Manhunter.



I agree with you. Andreyko has a very good grasp of dialogue as well as characterisation. He is also very good at creating suspense and drama. There is none of that in Wolfman's Nightwing.

[Mia]

You give Catwoman a baby, with someone no one wanted her to have a baby with, would it have been so bad to give Selina a child by Bruce? After that you casually kill of the father of the baby. On top of that the seies seems to belurching going nowhere.

How this for an idea? make the baby Bruce but he doesn't know he's a father, but slowly over the next couple of years he adds 2 and 2 together. You could easily write almost 5 years worth of stories, from the detective, soap opera, legal, financial aspect of that story alone. Let alone the fact they have an attraction and love for one another yet neither are willing to completely change for the other.

DC does not want any sort of permanent link between Batman and Catwoman. Ed Brubaker said so when he was on the book. And a baby would be a permanent link.

[GeorgeG]

That's simply a statement of opinion and one I don't necessarily agree with. I think there's a lot of people out there who like Nightwing and WANT to read this book, if the writing is of sufficient quality. For instance, I remember several people saying on this board that they tried Wolfman's Nightwing, but found it of mediocre quallity, so they left again.

The question is, "Can Andreyko deliver?" I have yet to pick up the Nightwing annual from my local store (been very busy here), so I can't comment on the writing of the annual yet (though I am encouraged by all the positive responses to it here). However, I know the man is capable based on his outstanding work on Manhunter.

The problem with MH is that it's not a book (or a character) that most people want to read (alas), no matter how good it is. However, match the same writer with a character people desperately DO want to read, and you MAY have a match made in heaven.

And everything you just said is a statement of your opinion as well.

But I guess yours is the only one that matters.

[Darth Joker]

CJ called your post a 'troll post' because you made an inflamatory statement (which is basically what a troll does and what you in fact did) without anything to back it up.








Not necessarily. Your argument would hold water if Catwoman had been a great seller. Then it plunged. But the truth of the matter is the book has never been a good seller, even before Selina had a baby.




It's obvious that people came on for the OYL arc. Didnt' like it and didn't bother to stay. The sales levels are right back to where they were before. Sales does not equal quality.

Going by your list... is it possible that basic price of the book may be a factor?

Catwoman sales were consistently going up... until the price rose from $2.50 to $2.99. Then, readership has gone down consistently every month since then.

Now, 49 cents may seem like an awful little thing to drop a book for, but I can see the more casual fans who used to read Catwoman deciding that with the price raise they'd get a different book (given the new price differential), or may drop this one title with out picking up another one.

[Darth Joker]

I agree that if you're going to give Catwoman a child, it makes more sense for the child to have a very well-established character that people like Catwoman being with as the father.

So... the best choice would probably be Batman.

OTOH, I can see a Catwoman writer not wanting her to be in Batman's shadow, and relying too heavily for Batman for sales.

Superman/Batman does well because of completionists for both characters (as another poster pointed out), and also because I think there's a lot of people who like the 'mini-Justice League' feel (i.e. books featuring either two, or all three, of Superman, Batman, and Wonder Woman).

I'm surprised that Batman is out of the top 10, though - out of curiousity, which books *are* in the top 10?

[Captain Jim]

Going by your list... is it possible that basic price of the book may be a factor?

Catwoman sales were consistently going up... until the price rose from $2.50 to $2.99. Then, readership has gone down consistently every month since then.

Now, 49 cents may seem like an awful little thing to drop a book for, but I can see the more casual fans who used to read Catwoman deciding that with the price raise they'd get a different book (given the new price differential), or may drop this one title with out picking up another one.

Good observation; I hadn't picked up on that at all. I think there's a real good chance the price increase may have been a factor.

[Captain Jim]

And everything you just said is a statement of your opinion as well.

No, not really. I'd say it's more than just my opinion that there are a lot of people out there who like the character of Nightwing and would like to read the book, if they thought it was well written. Everything I've seen online and heard from convention reports would seem to validate this.

Nor is it simply my opinion that Manhunter is a well-written book, as it receives almost uniformly rave reviews, despite having low sales.

But I guess yours is the only one that matters.

You have totally missed the point, and the sarcasm is unnecessary. You said...

Andreyko won't sell more issues than Wolfman.

That is not phrased as an opinion; it's phrased as a statement of fact. But it's not fact, because you have no way of knowing such a thing.

[GeorgeG]

No, not really. I'd say it's more than just my opinion that there are a lot of people out there who like the character of Nightwing and would like to read the book, if they thought it was well written. Everything I've seen online and heard from convention reports would seem to validate this.

Nor is it simply my opinion that Manhunter is a well-written book, as it receives almost uniformly rave reviews, despite having low sales.



You have totally missed the point, and the sarcasm is unnecessary. You said...



That is not phrased as an opinion; it's phrased as a statement of fact. But it's not fact, because you have no way of knowing such a thing.

You're kidding me right? It's obviously my opinion that Andreyko wouldn't sell as much as Wolfman.

Let me clue you in, as far as MBs go. When someone writes something down it's that person's opinion pretty much everytime. It really doesn't need am "IMO" attached to every statement--unless that would make things easier for you, I'll remember for the next time.

And rave reviews? C'mon, you're joking again, right? There's what 10 Web sites out there giving these "rave" reviews? 10 people don't make a comic great.

Being "critically acclaimed" is the most over used term in this industry, as anybody who writes on a Web site--people who are fans like you and me and that's pretty much their credentials--can give out these "rave reviews."

And again, YOU are missing the point when EVERYTHING you have stated is just an opinion. You may think you're adding weight to your argument, but if you look at every example you've given--objectively--you'll clearly see that you're basing things on OTHER people's opinions and nothing more.

People who are buying the Nightwing book right now think it's good, or I doubt they would be bothering with it.

But because you talked to what, 10 people on a message board(s), they are a better guage than the 30,000 people that are buying the title.

[Mia]

And rave reviews? C'mon, you're joking again, right? There's what 10 Web sites out there giving these "rave" reviews? 10 people don't make a comic great.

Being "critically acclaimed" is the most over used term in this industry, as anybody who writes on a Web site--people who are fans like you and me and that's pretty much their credentials--can give out these "rave reviews."

And again, YOU are missing the point when EVERYTHING you have stated is just an opinion. You may think you're adding weight to your argument, but if you look at every example you've given--objectively--you'll clearly see that you're basing things on OTHER people's opinions and nothing more.

People who are buying the Nightwing book right now think it's good, or I doubt they would be bothering with it.

But because you talked to what, 10 people on a message board(s), they are a better guage than the 30,000 people that are buying the title.


No they aren't. I buy Nightwing and I'm not enjoying it. I think it's okay, but it's nothing I would recomend to anyone. I buy it because I love the character and hope it will get better. But I am not enjoying it.

Sales do not equal quality..which is what Captain Jim was trying to point out to you.

You might also be interested to know that Bruce Jones, whose Nightwing was unformally slammed on various MB forums. Sold much better than anything than what Marv Wolfman has produced so far.


NIGHTWING #130 $2.99 DC 31,788
NIGHTWING #129 $2.99 DC 32,651
NIGHTWING #128 $2.99 DC 33,930
NIGHTWING #127 $2.99 DC 34,889
NIGHTWING #126 $2.99 DC 36,145
NIGHTWING #125 $2.99 DC 38,470 *Start of of Wolfman's run.
NIGHTWING #124 $2.99 DC 38,251
NIGHTWING #123 $2.99 DC 40,111
NIGHTWING #122 $2.99 DC 42,542
NIGHTWING #121 $2.99 DC 44,974
NIGHTWING #120 $2.99 DC 46,076
NIGHTWING #119 $2.50 DC 46,336

http://www.icv2.com/articles/news/1850.html



And by the way, that's a fact.

[Captain Jim]

You're kidding me right? It's obviously my opinion that Andreyko wouldn't sell as much as Wolfman.

Let me clue you in, as far as MBs go. When someone writes something down it's that person's opinion pretty much everytime. It really doesn't need am "IMO" attached to every statement--unless that would make things easier for you, I'll remember for the next time.

George, I've been moderating MB's at CBR since 1999. I don't think I need you to tell me (with your 286 posts of experience) how message boards work. So stop being such a smart ass.

[GeorgeG]

Your language isn't appropriate.

[GeorgeG]

No they aren't. I buy Nightwing and I'm not enjoying it. I think it's okay, but it's nothing I would recomend to anyone. I buy it because I love the character and hope it will get better. But I am not enjoying it.

Sales do not equal quality..which is what Captain Jim was trying to point out to you.

And since sales "don't equal quality," I guess non-sales like Manhunter's do. Sorry, I forgot to take my logic course this month.

You might also be interested to know that Bruce Jones, whose Nightwing was unformally slammed on various MB forums. Sold much better than anything than what Marv Wolfman has produced so far.



And by the way, that's a fact.

Sounds to me Mia, that you're part of the problem then. If you are buying a title you are not enjoying, then drop it. It's not that hard to do.

[Captain Jim]

Your language isn't appropriate.

Neither is your behavior.

[Citizen V]

George, I've been moderating MB's at CBR since 1999. I don't think I need you to tell me (with your 286 posts of experience) how message boards work. So stop being such a smart ass.

Captain Jim is angry.:eek:

Well,in terms of DC comic sales..where does Batman rank for the month of March?

[Captain Jim]

Well,in terms of DC comic sales..where does Batman rank for the month of March?

Seventh...behind JLA, four issues of 52, & JSA, in that order.