Wonder Woman Villains and YABS

[Constantine Drakon]

What with recent news, I'm curious about YABS' take on Wonder Woman's villains.


Any favorites, least favorites, thoughts, questions, or Egg Fu?

[Chris Hansbrough]

Egg fu is a total yolk

oooooh that was punny

I really could go on.....

Personally I think Cheetah is the Cats meow

Dr. Psycho is a little short on any real development

seriously I really could go on with bad puns all day long....

[Jack Zodiac]

Giganta! Anything with a fifty foot tall naked Dr. Zeul is garunteed gold.

Seriously, though... with Gail writing Wonder Woman soon, and her track record with a certain Napoleanic madman, I have a pretty good idea of who we'll be seein.

[Chris Hansbrough]

Giganta! Anything with a fifty foot tall naked Dr. Zeul is garunteed gold.

Seriously, though... with Gail writing Wonder Woman soon, and her track record with a certain Napoleanic madman, I have a pretty good idea of who we'll be seein.

I would definitely put giganta at the top of her class

*budum ch*

seriously....all day.....

[Jack Zodiac]

I wouldn't mind seeing Dr. Cyber make a come back, either.

[diana_fan]

Egg fu is a total yolk

oooooh that was punny

I really could go on.....

Personally I think Cheetah is the Cats meow

Dr. Psycho is a little short on any real development

seriously I really could go on with bad puns all day long....

Ouch. Seriously, ouch.

Anyways, back to the topic at hand, I think that Diana's *real* arch-nemesis has always been human nature itself.

But beyond that, Ares needs to be the menace that defines Diana. He is her total opposite, and yet understands her, and she him, quite well. But you can't pull the Ares card very often.

With what those maniacs over at 52 have done developing possibly THE WORST character of all time, Egg Fu, into a truly menacing, scary, and intelligent, big-picture sort of guy, I would say that Chang Tzu is now a playa.

Cheetah, in her different incarnations, is always a good villain. The same goes for Circe. In her case, though, I think we've had enough Circe for a LONG time. A couple year's hiatus is necessary at this point.

Devastation is a character that has been criminally underutilized. She's primed for a major comeback. And she can hang with Diana. She's a real threat, and a cool concept.

I hope to god that Veronica Cale continues to have a presence in the WW mythos. She was an absolutely brilliant creation by Rucka. She's just a regular woman, who happens to be a sociopath who hates Wonder Woman and has an IQ somewhere around 200. Damn, skippy!

There are lots of others, obviously. But those are some of my favs.

Gail said that she plans on introducing some new villains, and I can't wait. The difficulty in developing a villain for WW is obviously that she is SO powerful, there has to be some hook that works.

[Chris Hansbrough]

I wouldn't mind seeing Dr. Cyber make a come back, either.

I'd be I Ching to see her show up again. but I don't think she has the Brain for it.

all.......day

[Chris Hansbrough]

Ouch. Seriously, ouch.


With what those maniacs over at 52 have done developing possibly THE WORST character of all time, Egg Fu, into a truly menacing, scary, and intelligent, big-picture sort of guy, I would say that Chang Tzu is now a playa.


didn't read this weeks 52 yet didya..... Hes definitely a yolk again

[PatrickG]

Captain Wonder! Captain Wonder!

[Damo]

Giganta! Anything with a fifty foot tall naked Dr. Zeul is garunteed gold.

Turning into a giant is useful for a lot of things, and certainly makes her a threat against the Secret Six, Atom, or Birds of Prey...

But against Wonder Woman, a character with flight and superstrength, she always seems like a non-threat joke to me. She essentially makes herself a much bigger target, while Wondy becomes a much smaller target. And it's not like she becomes more powerful than Wondy while she does that.

As awesome as she is as a giant, when it comes to fighting with Wonder Woman I kinda wish she'd have the sense to just grow a couple of heads taller than her enemy, at least for part of the fights. Otherwise you just know the fight'll end with 'the bigger they are, the harder they fall".

[diana_fan]

didn't read this weeks 52 yet didya..... Hes definitely a yolk again

I did read it.

But I believe he will be back. Also, I'm fairly certain that someone, somewhere (Yeah, I know: real precise) mentioned his presence poast-52.

[Magneto_X]

The Cheetah (Greg Rucka version)

Ares

Circe (Gail would rock with that character!)

Dr.Psycho (from Secret Six/VU Gail's proven she can make this wierd guy into a certifyable threat *and* make it entertaining)

*hopes that Artemis becomes a rival/supporting character post-Amazons Attack in Gail's WW*

[Chris Hansbrough]

I did read it.

But I believe he will be back. Also, I'm fairly certain that someone, somewhere (Yeah, I know: real precise) mentioned his presence poast-52.

in the outsiders/Checkmate crossover probably....which takes place pre-oyl I think....all in all it'll be a yolk...

[Chris Hansbrough]

Captain Wonder! Captain Wonder!

you really gotta wonder what they were thinking when they came up with that. I really thought it shorted Dr. Psychos character a bit...

badum ch

[diana_fan]

in the outsiders/Checkmate crossover probably....which takes place pre-oyl I think....all in all it'll be a yolk...

No, the "Check-Out" x-over is in current time. The Outsiders story, "Pay As You Go", which will conclude in the Annual, was set pre-OYL.

Anyhow, even if I am remembering incorrectly, they should bring Chang Tzu back, dammit! :)

[Chris Hansbrough]

No, the "Check-Out" x-over is in current time. The Outsiders story, "Pay As You Go", which will conclude in the Annual, was set pre-OYL.

Anyhow, even if I am remembering incorrectly, they should bring Chang Tzu back, dammit! :)

well I can't believe I got that one wrong then. guess that's egg on my face.

oh yes. I did set that one up.

[Damo]

This has me thinking... I really hope to see the return of Jimenez's take on Angle Man ( http://community.livejournal.com/scans_daily/3016529.html#cutid1 ). Much much love.

[Chris Hansbrough]

This has me thinking... I really hope to see the return of Jimenez's take on Angle Man ( http://community.livejournal.com/scans_daily/3016529.html#cutid1 ). Much much love.

yeah but yu have to ask. what would be his angle in all this

[Magneto_X]

Angle Man showed up in Catwoman's previous arc. Phifer did a great job with him, too.

[Chris Hansbrough]

Angle Man showed up in Catwoman's previous arc. Phifer did a great job with him, too.

yeah he definitely came in with a good angle. a little more brutal villainy than in the wonder woman arc but definitely quite cool and evil nasty

[Damo]

Angle Man showed up in Catwoman's previous arc. Phifer did a great job with him, too.

I have to disagree with you as strongly as possible. I've liked some things Will Pfeifer did (Film Freak), but his Angle Man was a cheap slimy no-class American thug and coward, about as far from Jimenez's version as possible. To say I was let down would be an understatement. I much preferred the charming rogue with a small streak of nobility, and thought he brought something different to Wonder Woman's gallery. Pfeifer's Angle Man was just as rotten as Psycho or the others, but less fun to watch.

[PatrickG]

you really gotta wonder what they were thinking when they came up with that. I really thought it shorted Dr. Psychos character a bit...

badum ch

I think it was perversely psychological.

Dr. Psycho took on the form of WW's boyfriend in a modified WW costume and hit the dating scene with Silver Swan.

Which is almost a precursor to the more nightmarish side of eDating.

Creepy little guy with issues becomes an attractive man in a woman's costume, trading his mental powers for physical powers, and gets a girlfriend.

Now imagine that revisited in a post-Alan Moore comics industry.

[Cam63]

Egg fu is a total yolk

oooooh that was punny

I really could go on.....

Personally I think Cheetah is the Cats meow

Dr. Psycho is a little short on any real development

seriously I really could go on with bad puns all day long....

*Golf tournament claps*

Well played, Sir.

[Cam63]

Hmm...

How about Black Adam ?

[El Santo]

Veronica Cale, Medusa, and...um...that's about it. I mostly enjoy her fights with other people's villains.

[BnL]

Turning into a giant is useful for a lot of things, and certainly makes her a threat against the Secret Six, Atom, or Birds of Prey...

But against Wonder Woman, a character with flight and superstrength, she always seems like a non-threat joke to me. She essentially makes herself a much bigger target, while Wondy becomes a much smaller target. And it's not like she becomes more powerful than Wondy while she does that.

As awesome as she is as a giant, when it comes to fighting with Wonder Woman I kinda wish she'd have the sense to just grow a couple of heads taller than her enemy, at least for part of the fights. Otherwise you just know the fight'll end with 'the bigger they are, the harder they fall".

I think Giganta still has potential as a Wonder Woman villain. If there's one thing I can pat Heinberg on the back for, it's cleverly explaining why Giganta has long been mostly a big joke as a villain: the larger she grows, the dumber she gets. But now that that's no longer the case, perhaps it's possible for her to grow even larger than 50 feet, as has been her limit thus far. I'd like to see her be able to grow as big as 200...maybe even 500 feet (with her strength growing proportionally, of course). Being so large, and now with her new costume offering a bit of protective armor, she would be more impervious to Diana's attacks than before. And now that she retains her brilliant mind while in giant form, she could finally be made into a credible threat. Diana would have to simultaneously fight off Giganta, limit the amount of destruction she's causing to their surroundings (including getting civilians out of harm's way), and foil whatever plot she's devised. Boom, A-list threat. :D

[Matt Doc Martin]

I do not follow DC comics very much art all.

That being said: Black Adam?

[BnL]

I do not follow DC comics very much art all.

That being said: Black Adam?

Well, we know Gail loves the Marvel family, and since they get their powers from some of the same sources as the Wonder Woman family, a crossover only seems natural...

[Night Swordsman]

Wasn't that War of the Gods? :p

Two things: Can we get some NEW villains for Diana? Seriously? Sure,use some of the older ones,of course,but the fact we are even having this conversation means that she can use some new enemies to face.

Also,is it me,or is almost every new character they introduced or reintroduced in 52 pretty much DEAD now? John Henry Irons seems to have gotten the best part of the series.

[BnL]

Wasn't that War of the Gods? :p

Two things: Can we get some NEW villains for Diana? Seriously? Sure,use some of the older ones,of course,but the fact we are even having this conversation means that she can use some new enemies to face.

It's been a long time since I read War of the Gods, but I don't remember the Marvel family having too large a role. Besides, there's always room for more team ups. :p

As for her needing new villains, I don't think she does. Most of her established villains have strong concepts, but they just haven't been executed to their best potential.

Devastation could be a fantastic villain in capable hands. Her ability to alter memories might make her a bit too uber-powerful, since she can even manipulate memories as they're happening. Easy enough to fix though. Just have a quintessential "badass Diana" storyline in which she excises that ability by attacking the memory center of Deva's brain in typical badass Diana fashion. It could be an arc in the same vein as her showdown with Medusa, only without the death.

Silver Swan. Especially if they go back to using the original Post-Crisis one. She was a very smart young girl with severe physical deformities who was made beautiful and given superpowers. She was seemingly reformed, tried to be a hero at one point, which didn't take, then she dropped off the radar. I'd have it so she tried to live a normal life, maybe as a teacher or even playwright or actress, but was met with rejection because of her past. Her mental problems grow worse and worse over the years, and she finds that after spending most of her life hideously deformed, even her artificially granted beauty is now fading. At her lowest point, she is offered a mystical serum created by Dr. Poison (possibly with materials given to her from Devastation, like with the Pandora Virus) that grant her eternal youth and beauty, and greater abilities than ever, combining the powers of the sirens, harpies, and any other appropriate mythological beings.

Dr. Cyber. Finding a modern application for her would be pretty simple. She runs a global criminal organization, that has a hand in just about every kind of illegal activity there is. Maybe have her run a small country in which the residents are all, in actuality, members of her spy network. From there you can work in other obscure pre-crisis villains as members of her organization, like Mask and Warhead.

Angle Man. Like Damo, I prefer the Jimenez version. Give him an updated costume, expand his motives, and you're pretty much good to go. Definitely a more light-hearted villain, which would be welcome in Diana's rogue's gallery. His angler's capabilities have never really been fully defined, so I would have it not only be a teleportation device, but also a matter manipulator that can bend and flex objects. For example, he could make a wall/barrier by "stretching" the the floor upward, or he could slip through a locked door by stretching the keyhole large enough to step through. Lots of fun potential.

Paula Von Gunther. There's honestly not much I liked about John Byrne's run, but one thing I did find interesting was that he made Paula into a Nazi mystic. I thought that was a very cool angle for her, and that could be played up to great effect. For example, she could have been the one to "conjure" Gudra, since so much of the Nazi mysticism was based on Norse mythology. She would still be the "classy, regal" noblewoman though, and would go by the name "Baroness." Maybe have her daughter Gerta be the one who defected and joined the amazons.

..Can you tell I've thought about this a tad? :p By the way Gail, I know you're not allowed to, but if you want to steal any of these ideas, I won't tell. :D

[d newton]

I have to disagree with you as strongly as possible. I've liked some things Will Pfeifer did (Film Freak), but his Angle Man was a cheap slimy no-class American thug and coward, about as far from Jimenez's version as possible. To say I was let down would be an understatement. I much preferred the charming rogue with a small streak of nobility, and thought he brought something different to Wonder Woman's gallery. Pfeifer's Angle Man was just as rotten as Psycho or the others, but less fun to watch.
Angle Man wasn't that interesting in Wonder Woman. I could come up with a better storyline.

[pimpernel]

Heh... we were just talking about this on another board.

Here is what i would like to see...

Ares - I think he needs to do less metaphorical moustache-twirling and more hands-on villainy. He is theoretically at least as powerful as Darkseid but he is never shown as such.

Paula Von Gunther - Paula was Wonder Woman's arch enemy for much of the golden age and it is a shame that nothing is being done with her now. If Geoff Johns can have an entire team of nazis appear in Justice Society then it can't be too hard to bring back Paula Von Gunther successfully. If the timeline is an issue then her daughter Gerta Von Gunther can be used as a legacy villain.

The Silver Swan - Been gone too long.

The Snow Man - Because every superhero needs a cold villain, and the only thing better than a cold villain is a crossdressing cold villain. I know the Snowman isn't necessarily much of a threat to Wonder Woman on her own, but she is a prime candidate for a new Villainy Inc.

Hypnota The Great - Another contender for a new Villainy Inc.

Dr Poison - Heinberg and Dodson already gave her a contemporary makeover so she is good to go.

The Red Panzer - Panzer is already a legacy character so it shouldn't be difficult to bring him back/replace him with and upgrade. The Nazi version of Iron Man... he could be a heavy-hitter.

Badra - Forget about the silly name. Badra is the sole survivor of a race of superbeings. It wouldn't hurt for Wonder Woman to have a villain who can match her blow for blow in a fist fight.

Queen Clea - Queen of a lost undersea kingdom. Her powers are pretty undefined but she is a cool character and both she and her kingdom offer a lot of potential.

Gudra - A valkyrie... c'mon you gotta love those.

Zara: Priestess of the Crimson Flame - Head of the Cult of the Crimson Flame. Zara is supposedly mystical in nature but she fakes it all using technology. The cult could offer a type of enemy that Wonder Woman can't overcome with force alone.

Andros - A superintelligent crystaline alien who can travel through space and time and manipulate his environment.

Dr Cyber - Cos you gotta have Dr Cyber.

Mona Menise - A regular woman posessed by one of the Sirens of Greek myth. Pre-crisis Mona was quite weak and easily defeated, but IIRC she hasn't apeared post-crisis so a new version needn't have those limitations. A woman posessed by an evil entity could offer some good psychological material... plus mythological villains are always awesome.

Osira - Ancient Egyptian sorceress. Another sorceress wouldn't hurt... and there is the whole Egyptian angle to set her apart from Circe.

And then there are all those great Wonder Woman villains that are off being great in every comic except Wonder Woman's... Dr Psycho, Giganta, Egg Fu, Angle Man, Veronica Cale... time to recall some of those and use them where they belong.

[Tobias March]

Maybe we could see some of the villains who premiered in Villains United - Mr. Terrible was a favourite of mine :D

[EspanolBot]

Hercules, he has a history of apologising for going against the Amazons and then attacking them out of spite, e.g. is forgiven by Hippolyta for raping her and enslaving the Amazons thousands of years ago, nad his first response is to seduce Diana disguised as a different superhero.

[Matthew E]

Some new villains would be good, but there are a couple of old villains that could stand to have Wonder Woman pound them into the ground like they were tent pegs. Like, say, Major Force and Dr. Light.

[the4thpip]

The Red Centipede.

[Constantine Drakon]

Angle Man wasn't that interesting in Wonder Woman. I could come up with a better storyline.

Uh, okay. Thanks for sharing that?

Personally I liked the contrast between Angle Man and her usual rogues. I could kind of cheer for him a little, which I can't do for Cheetah, Psycho, Poison or Giganta.

[DuelaDent]

Captain Wonder - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Captain_Wonder_%28DC_Comics%29


Forget the bizarre Pre-Crisis origin and re-invent him with a new origin. Too bad she couldn't reintroduce the Kristen Wells version of Superwoman during her Action Comics run.


Blue Snowman - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_Snowman


Byrna is just...odd. Let's see a modern take on her! :D


THEM! - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/THEM%21_%28comics%29


Ok, they make the Blue Snowman look normal. There's a bizarre, creepy story just waiting to be told here.

[Paploo the Ewok]

What with recent news, I'm curious about YABS' take on Wonder Woman's villains.


Any favorites, least favorites, thoughts, questions, or Egg Fu?


ALL the messed up Marston ones are vastly underutilized- The ones I'd like to see most.....

Villany Inc- one of the earliest supervillan teams ever, Oscar Jiminez revamped them recently. It'd be nice to see them again sometime...

Hypnota- a female show magician who dressed up in men's clothes and wears a fake beard, whose poor sister has to deal with all her wacky schemes, potentially rooted in insanity.

Dr.Poison- a Princess who really, really likes poison, torture and all kinds of messed up, evil stuff. But still, a Princess! She could sing, and make cute lil Squirrels kill people or something

Zara, Priestess of the Crimson Flame- a pyromanic cult leader, who I think only appeared in a handful of stories. Lots of potential there, with a cult, and another WW like figure, although one who uses science to fake her magic/faith.

Queen Clea- a queen of the Atlanteans, she's kind of like an evil version of Hippolyta, an oppresive monarch who's obsessed with power.

Eviless- a Saturnian slave trader, with a totally dorky name!

Here's the wiki entry of WW villans/villanesses
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Wonder_Woman_enemies

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:THEMww185.gif I second THEM, if for the fact that it's such a crazy, bizarro concept. AT least use their leader, with her big top hat :)

I'd also like to see aSilver Swan who ISN'T poor old Vanessa would also be nice to see [as would a healthy, sane Vanessa]

And another vote for a new version of Baroness Paula von Gunther [mabye the current Baroness, her offspring/grandkid].

[Night Swordsman]

I wish to propose the worst villan Diana can take on:

Dan Didio
:D

[BnL]

Ugh, big "no" to THEM! Thinly veiled homophobic drivel. In fact, the whole basis of their "villainy" was that they were lesbians. That's one big steaming turd of a concept that you can't polish into a sparkling gem.

As for Blue Snowman, I know a lot of people think there are already too many cold villains in the DCU, but I think the key is to give her a unique origin/power source. I've thought about this long and hard, and she was one of the toughest WW villains to revamp, but I eventually came up with an idea for her. It's looooooooong. Brevity is not really my strong suit. :p

I'd have her be a scientist who was trying to develop technology capable of opening dimensional gateways. Why? Well...that's beside the point, shut up! :p Accidentally, she winds up opening a gateway to a dimension populated by malevolent spirits. My thinking was that, according to urban myth, when ghostly activity happens, the temperature supposedly drops, presumably as a result of the spirits crossing dimensions. Anyway, she's then bedeviled by these evil spirits, who wind up driving her insane, and her criminal activity begins when she exacts revenge and retaliation on the spirits' behalf, becoming sort of a medium for them (though I think it's important to retain her original identity and not be taken over by the spirits). In time, she remodels her original invention into a pair of guns, which really are just handheld portals to the cold dimension, focused into a projectile weapon. With the "guns," she is able to harness this supernatural cold energy, which is not bound by the natural laws of our world, so the ice is much tougher to melt, and it's able to freeze most anything (much like the blue snow from Pre-Crisis history; it's gotta be heartier stuff to be any kind of challenge for WW). The evil spirits would protect her from being damaged herself by the cold, but they continue to pester her. She can often be seen laughing/conversing/screaming/arguing/crying, seemingly with thin air, but really she's dealing with her constant "companions." Another fine addition to Villainy Inc. :D

[Damo]

Ugh, big "no" to THEM! Thinly veiled homophobic drivel. In fact, the whole basis of their "villainy" was that they were lesbians.

Homosexuality can be a deadly weapon in the right hands. Heck, hands aren't even necessary!

*DUCKS!*

[Patriot07]

I really like Dr. Poison (I believe her name is). She really hasn't had any real development in recent years, but she's really disturbing and I think a lot can still be done with her.

[PatrickG]

Dr Cyber - Cos you gotta have Dr Cyber.


Did he "cyber" someone on the dissertation committee for that Ph.D?

Again, I reiterate:

Captain Wonder.

Goofy name. Goofy costume. And theoretically one of the most powerful people in the DCU.

The pre-Crisis version was creepy on multiple levels though I don't care if the new one is Dr. Psycho or not.

C'Mon, a guy with all of Wonder Woman's power is theoretically in the DCU's Top Ten most powerful. We've seen the potential for characters in this category with Black Adam.

Zoom. Sinestro, Black Adam. Those are villain concepts who were underrated for years and now seem capable of taking on whole teams of the most powerful heroes in the DCU.

Now I wanna see the "executive transvestite" of Wonder Woman's classic rogues gallery get the same treatment. That's where the goofiness turns creepy.

Imagine a guy who looks like this:

http://img85.imageshack.us/img85/6202/200pxww289bl3.gif

Now imagine that in spite of being a goofball, without even revamping his costume, he's a global threat. He takes down nations.

Heck, if I could get away with it, I'd probably have him kill Black Adam in a suitably "Black Adam"-style horrific fashion.

What happens when the world's biggest mort is the world's greatest threat?