Avengers versus X-men: Kill off a franchise

[Pro]

No this is not a duel thread or a "Who's the strongest?" thread.

It seems as though after the third x-men movie the entire x-world was wrecked by M-day. All but 198 (bleh) mutants left and their race dying out.
Wolverine is shunted to the Avengers team, Storm to Black Panther and Fantastic Four.

And in its place is a strong focus on bringing the Avengers to the limelight.
Surprise considering they are also pushing to make movies of the same group now that they milked their marvel mutants for all they're worth?

It feels more and more like M-day and Civil War were primarily motivated by marketing strategies rather than good storytelling (even if i enjoyed some of it at the time). But as pointed out in another thread on the x-men boards the x-men are pretty much out of a job. All their stories are now solely about enemies attacking the x-men and the x-men only defending themselves. There is no more next step in evolution, no more gathering new mutants, training them, protecting the world while fighting for mutant rights. And the big event that is supposed to change all of marvel completely passes by the x-men, the group that would have normally been on the frontlines to prevent registration.

Apparently Marvel felt it needed to sacrifice mutancy in order to give Avengers the salesboost it needs to justify milking their movie potential.

So the question is: If you had to choose which group would die off so the other can shine more brightly which one would it be? Avengers or X-men?

[tetragene]

So the question is: If you had to choose which group would die off so the other can shine more brightly which one would it be? Avengers or X-men?

I'd remove Emma Frost, Dazzler, Northstar, Polaris, Rogue, Cannonball, Angel, Beast, Iceman, Multiple Man, and Cyclops from the x-verse and place them in the MU. Then I'd nuke the hell out of the X-Men franchise. The Avengers books are so blowing the X-books out of the water now anyway, might as well give the Avengers a real chance to shine.

[Willminus2]

I'd off the Avengers in a hearbeat. I'll always love the X-books, and rarely do I even like the Avengers.

[XPac]

Right now the Avengers have Spider-Man and Wolverine... that's the one you wanna keep.

The most marketable X-Men are probably Storm and Wolverine... with one on the Fantastic Four and the other a New Avenger, losing the X-Men would be survivable.

Not trying to diss the X-Men at all... but if push came to shove at this point I think the X-Men would be more expendable.

And it's not like there aren't plenty of Xbooks out there to pick up the slack if it went bye bye.

[mattbib]

I'm enjoying the current Avengers franchise much more than the X-Men franchise. I'd keep the Avengers.

[Flâneur]

The problem with the X-franchise has always been the glutting of team books until they were without purpose within the narrative. The Avengers franchise on the other hand has always had a stable of characters which have very individual goals - sufficiently different so as to support a range of solos which don't rely on the team book and cameos so as to survive. So if it came to it, despite my love of the X-men, I'd say its a better idea to cull them.

[Den]

I think Marvel should reduce the number of X books but not the characters that were in them. Integrate the remaining powered mutants more into the mainstream MU since, for all the mutants know, they are a dying breed. Break them up, and see how they deal with no longer having a supportive sub culture on one hand, and no longer being quite as feared and hated (Because hey, they're no longer humanity's replacements) on the other (or at least, they'll be no more feared and hated than the average superhuman).

Show some mutants who lost their powers going to Reed, Stark, and Pym desperate to be 're-empowered' even if it means working for the government they once distrusted. Have others with crime fighting in thier blood turn to just training and getting the right gear on their own.

The remaining X team book could be about those last hold outs, the ones who hold onto the remnants of Xavier's dreams and their own cultural identity. If and when Marvel ever undoes the Decimation, you get the whole 'rising from the ashes' type story from there.

[jpk]

I used to read my X books first on Wednesdays. Now, I go right to the Avengers titles. Guess that leads to my answer - Hasta la Vista, X-men. :(

[Will.S]

Not trying to diss the X-Men at all... but if push came to shove at this point I think the X-Men would be more expendable.

And it's not like there aren't plenty of Xbooks out there to pick up the slack if it went bye bye.
Yeah if the X-Books went away at this point I wouldn't feel as phased as if the Avengers books were to go so I guess the X-books would be the one I would kill off.

[Sparda]

Instead of killing the X-books off, marvel should integrate them more into the MU universe. X-books is too much focus on Mutant racism and the such and that get's really boring, so instead of having them keep to themselves most of the time, have them help out more often in stopping criminals and the such and show to humans that they have nothing to fear.

[Canemacar]

With the X-books getting treated like a second-class franchise as opposed to the Avengers, it's probably better to integrate the X-men rather than kill it off.

[tedward1984]

I'll admit, lately, I have deinfately been enjoying the Avengers related stuff more than X-Men. Ultimates and Ed Brubaker's Captain America are the primary reasons for me personally, however the tools that have given them the most popular push are boosting the New Avengers team with Wolverine and using an X-Men theme (registration act) for an Avengers event. There is also the attempt to push Black Panther by marrying him to an X-Man.

Wolverine does still appear in Astonishing, but his role has been cut back considerably, not to mention Storm is gone all together. Depsite the removal of these characters and the depowering of most of the population, the X-Men titles are still among Marvels best sellers. New Avengers and Civil War are best sellers, but they got a massive makrteing push from Marvel. X-Men continued to ride high after getting blasted my editorial.

I like where the Avengers are now, but X-Men has shown that it is much more dependable, and it is bouncing back already. I would like the X-Men more involved with the rest of the univers, but if I had to choose, X-Men all the way.

[Omega Alpha]

With the X-books getting treated like a second-class franchise as opposed to the Avengers, it's probably better to integrate the X-men rather than kill it off.

Exactly. Like i said in another topic, since there isn't much of a point to the X-men anymore, the best thing from their standpoint (although not from ours) would be to disband the team and integrate the members who still want to do superheroing in other teams with other metahumans. Like the current class of New X-men are the last students, just keep the school for one or two years until they graduate and then close it off or just send them to the Initiative.

[Joe Acro]

I would just change the names of the Avengers teams.:D

[Siddon]

I'd kill the Avengers franchise, the biggest problem with the franchise is now that Civil War is over there shouldn't be a split Avengers team there should be new teams with new positions. I think Marvel wanted to keep the Avengers a franchise instead of going in a new direction if it where up to me this is what Marvel would look like

The New Fantastic Four - The Shield based mighty avengers team pro team

Iron Man
Ms. Marvel
Sentry
Ares

Hero's for Hire - The anti-reg on the run team
Luke Cage
Iron Fist
Spider-man
Wolverine
Doctor Strange
Spider-woman



Champions - A pro reg team in California

Yellowjacket
Wasp
Vision
Hawkeye
Mr. Fantastic
Invisible Woman

Defenders - The international anti reg team

Black Panther
Storm
Namor
Human Torch
Thing
Iceman
Daredevil

[EnDwiGast]

I'm dead-set against the either/or mentality. That self-centered "I don't like this book so it should be cancelled" mentality. Or better yet, the "I can't afford to buy them all, so marvel should cancel all the ones i can't afford" mentality.

I'm hoping the upcoming X-event will give the x-books a new creative push. if not, they should be integrated into the marvel U. I say this as someone who has been an avengers-first fan from day one.

Which leads me to a question of my own. In the postCW era marvel U, will the X-students now be expected to join the Initiative. I don't think this has been addressed yet. Those students that don't go into combat wouldn't could stay in the X-school, but i would think the New X-Men qualify as being required to attend the initiative academy- unless the government cut the x-men a special deal.

[Pro]

however the tools that have given them the most popular push are boosting the New Avengers team with Wolverine and using an X-Men theme (registration act) for an Avengers event.

That was my point. It seems editorial simply decided that the Avengers needed to be more popular, sidetracked the x-groups so they wouldn't interfere with Tony and Steve bitchslapping eachother by utterly annihilating the background of why the x-men exist in the first place, reshuffled two of the most well known movie x-men to other teams and used storylines that used to be x-related, using them to revitalise the Avengers juuust in time for the Avengers movie franchise to start up.

I'm a huge x-fan but i'm also tempted to pick up Avenger titles because that seems to be where the big things happen now. What's keeping me is that much of it seems a bit too artificial, editorial decisions forced into a story. And for me that somewhat undermines what they try to do in Avengers and Civil War. It seems primarily editorially driven to popularise one franchise at the expense of another.

[Pro]

Which leads me to a question of my own. In the postCW era marvel U, will the X-students now be expected to join the Initiative. I don't think this has been addressed yet. Those students that don't go into combat wouldn't could stay in the X-school, but i would think the New X-Men qualify as being required to attend the initiative academy- unless the government cut the x-men a special deal.

See, those stories would be so much cooler to read about and not interfere but rather add to the whole CW and Initiative storylines.
Why aren't mutants forced to train under the SHRA though? We can come up with story motivations but i mean it is pretty clear that it is an editorial decision to keep mutants and the Avengers separate and in my opinion unfortunately at the expense of the x-books.
Whereas the interaction between the two franchises could have been so interesting instead editorial seems to have decided to go with one and shunt off the other franchise to some outback corner of the marvel universe, not really part of politics or society anymore.

I would have loved seeing Civil War and the Initiative take place when there were still 16 million mutants around. instead they were depowered, problem solved.

it would have been interesting to see the x-men deal with the SHRA now that their numbers are so low, instead we get a mutant reservation camp with special privilges that again serve to cut them off of the rest of the marvel universe.

Like i said artificial.

[Bryson the Red]

If I had to choose who to keep.... Id go with the Avengers.

[rwsmith]

I used to read my X books first on Wednesdays. Now, I go right to the Avengers titles. Guess that leads to my answer - Hasta la Vista, X-men. :(

I agree. I'm a long-time X-men fan, but the Avengers are the better franchise right now.

[lament]

I'd save the X-Men. They're already a franchise, and I think Mike Carey and Peter David are doing amazing things right now.

I haven't read an Avengers title in ages.

[Matthew K.]

merge the x-men into the avengers or vice versa (regardless of what the human population of the MU & authority thinks of it...sorry tony stark, we're breaking the rules :eek: ) as one giant super-team who protects those who can't protect themselves from harm & evil-doers! One giant team of superheroes...like back in the day...

I'd rather read about the x-men characters than the avengers...& for the majority of years I've preferred the x-men art & story style. So, push to shove, iron man, cap, black widow, wasp, ant-man & the rest get to bite the dust

[Christopher O]

I'd love to see a refocusing of the X-Men. I hope the upcoming event does just that. As far as one or the other, I can't choose. :(

[Faded]

I'd love to see a refocusing of the X-Men. I hope the upcoming event does just that. As far as one or the other, I can't choose. :(

Me too.

Except...well, I can choose.

I'd choose X-Men because they are not only a collection of really cool characters but they are a concept and an idea. The Avengers is more like an iconic name to me than a franchise that cannot be interchanged with another title.

[Brian R]

Me too.

Except...well, I can choose.

I'd choose X-Men because they are not only a collection of really cool characters but they are a concept and an idea. The Avengers is more like an iconic name to me than a franchise that cannot be interchanged with another title.

My thoughts exactly.

[Christopher O]

Me too.

Except...well, I can choose.

I'd choose X-Men because they are not only a collection of really cool characters but they are a concept and an idea. The Avengers is more like an iconic name to me than a franchise that cannot be interchanged with another title.

Pre-Civil War, I would've agreed, but now, the Avengers are very much a concept with two primary points of view on said concept.

[xakko]

For me, Marvel killed the Avengers with Civil War and the death of Cap. Bendis was never able to sell me with his so-called "New Avengers" - the stories weren't bad, but it never felt like a group I would want to rely on to save the world.

There are no real heroes left for me on the Avengers. And as much as I respect what it was, I would rather the franchise gone than the X-books, even if I'm not enjoying most of the titles there.

As previously mentioned, the X-books have - or had, prior to HoM - an underlying purpose and easily identifiable theme. Many of their characters haven't been tainted beyond recognition.

In other words, if the X-books were killed off, I pretty much stop reading Marvel. If the Avengers franchise vanished, I would hardly notice.

[Reptisaurus!]

I like the Avengers better. Mo' stronger characters, less whinewhinewhinewhineemoemoemoemoANGST. But I think the X-men have a stronger core concept. (I'm not sure the Avengers even HAVE a core concept, really, other than "A group of Marvel superheroes.") There's not much you could do with the Avengers that you couldn't do with the Defenders of the Champions or even the X-men, except stories focusin' on whoever happens to be an Avenger at the time.

So kill the Avengers.

[Citizen V]

I would not want to kill off any franchise,its just that both have been treated poorly.If i absolutely had to,then it would be the X-Men.I would find teams to put the X-Men onto,teams that fit them respectfully.

[Deadpooligan]

I feel the X-Men already had their time to shine with the many many crossovers.

Despite the fact that the X-Mens' underlying themes of outcast and social issues is relevant to culture, it's not as revolutionary as it was 20 or 30 years ago.

[blinkinrogue]

taking into account what has happened in the last few decades at marvel, they owe a lot to the x-titles (im not even sure if the avengers could be billed a franchise yet despite the recent success of their comic titles). the xmen have been tested and still earnl $$$$$


comics sold over the years (not just the last 3 years or so)
x-men >>>>> avengers

animated series
x-men >>>>>>>>>>>>> avengers (is there even a successful avengers animated series???)


movies (boxoffice-wise)
x-men >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> avengers (though i admit, the avengers still have to prove their worth, but we'll see).

overall, the xmen simply have the more popular characters (lets admit it, spidey and wolvie were just added to boost sales for avengers, and wolverine will always and forever be identified with the xmen)

so yes, for me xmen/x-titles all the way IMO...

[Nobbel]

X-Men series have always been the better selling compared to Avengers/ FF/ or any solo hero books. Now suddenly the Avengers are selling a bit better, but if you add all the Avengers titles and add all X-titles, the X-titles win big time.

Besides, the Avengers are better selling at the moment, but that will drop again any day soon, mark my words!!

So they better delete the Avengers then the X-Men.

Avengers started selling better since an X-Man was added. Black Panther sells better since an X-Man has added to the book.

X-Men had a couple of TV animated series, 3 very succesfull film and the Avengers, ehmmmm, not one!