JLA: Four versions of who the "Founders" were

[Lorendiac]

Okay, yesterday I was over on Marvel.com's boards and someone had started a trivia quiz thread. The first question on the list asked us to name the founding members of the JLA. As you might guess, this led to some heated disagreement. It occurred to me that there have been at least four different answers over the last few decades to the question of "Who were the Founders of the original JLA, way back when?"

I decided to write down my current understanding of what those four different answers have been, and invite feedback from anyone who spots something I got wrong! :)


Pre-Crisis

The original JLA began with these founding members, in alphabetical order:

Aquaman (Arthur, now called Orin)
Batman (Bruce)
Flash (Barry)
Green Lantern (Hal)
Martian Manhunter (J'onn)
Superman (Clark)
Wonder Woman (Diana)



Post-Crisis

After some retcons, we were told the original JLA had begun with these founding members, in alphabetical order:

Aquaman (Arthur, now called Orin)
Black Canary (Dinah)
Flash (Barry)
Green Lantern (Hal)
Martian Manhunter (J'onn)



Post-Zero Hour

After some retcons, we were told the original JLA had begun with these founding members, in alphabetical order:

Aquaman (Arthur, now called Orin)
Black Canary (Dinah)
Flash (Barry)
Green Lantern (Hal)
Martian Manhunter (J'onn)
Triumph (Will)



Post-Infinite Crisis

After some retcons, we were told the original JLA had begun with at least these founding members, in alphabetical order (but I'm not sure if we've gotten anything, published since the "OYL" jump, that was guaranteed to be "a complete list" of Founding Members?):

Aquaman (Arthur, now called Orin)
Batman (Bruce)
Flash (Barry)
Green Lantern (Hal)
Martian Manhunter (J'onn)
Superman (Clark)
Wonder Woman (Diana)

I have a general impression that the roles in the early days of the JLA of two "previously retconned-in founding members," Black Canary and Triumph, have been left very unclear so far. I haven't actually been buying the latest Justice League title, however, so I may easily have missed something important that would "prove" or "disprove" whether either of them still deserves to be called "a founding member." So the Post-IC version may be exactly the same as the original Pre-Crisis verison, or it may turn out to include all seven of the names from the Pre-Crisis version plus at least one or two more names added in, for all I know?

If I made any mistakes on any of these lists, then please, just say so! (It will help, though, if you can point me to a specific story that will prove your point about who should be added to, or removed from, one of these lists! :))

[Atom_basher]

i cant add anything really worthwhile, but i have NEVER heard of Triumph before i read this post, what can he do, where is he or she now

[Lorendiac]

i cant add anything really worthwhile, but i have NEVER heard of Triumph before i read this post, what can he do, where is he or she now

I bought the comic book that first introduced him as a shameless retcon during "Zero Hour" in 1994.

The basic idea (and I thought it was incredibly lame) went like this:

"Ten years ago" Triumph was the bright, aggressive superhero with some sort of electromagnetic powers who organized the first version of the JLA to fight an alien invasion, and actually served as their impromptu "leader" -- for about ten minutes! Then he somehow got knocked into a limbo and didn't age for ten years -- and when (during Zero Hour) he reemerged into the normal world, he found that somehow everybody had magically forgotten about him from ten years ago and he wasn't listed as a founding member of the JLA!

He ended up as a regular in the "Justice League Task Force" title for awhile, in the mid-90s, until it got canceled. Later he was an angry villain in an arc in Grant Morrison's run on the JLA. He's really a very forgettable and useless character, if you want my opinion, but after Zero Hour he had been retconned in as a "Founding Member," technically. I hope he's been erased from continuity entirely, but I don't have any evidence that he has been.

[Atom_basher]

haha, so he is essentially DC's Sentry?

[Lorendiac]

haha, so he is essentially DC's Sentry?

Pretty much, come to think of it! Except that Triumph came several years earlier, so it might be more fair to say that Sentry is Marvel's Triumph, more or less! :)

I didn't think of that parallel sooner because all I've ever read about Sentry is the original miniseries when it first came out, years ago. (I figured out the main gimmick early on, frankly, and knew exactly how the mini was going to end.) Never paid any attention to him since then!

[Sijo]

haha, so he is essentially DC's Sentry?Technically, yes, but note he came first, so actually it would be the other way around.

In any case, I doubt anyone will ever use him as a founding member ever again... at most, he might be defined as coming from a Parallel Earth, Hypertime or whatever.

[Billy]

Aquaman (Arthur, now called Orin)

Orin is Aquaman birth name or Atlantean name, the same way Kal-el is Superman's Kryptonian name. Arthur Curry, is the name he got off the Lighthouse Keeper, that raised him. That is what his friends call him. I think he still considers Arthur Curry his name. Ever since OYL and the new guy appearing called Arthur Joseph Curry, DC seem to be defaulting to only calling him Orin. I rather Arthur Curry. Dan Didio doesn't even seem aware that the original Aquaman is called Arthur Curry, thats kinda slow.

[Jack]

Orin is Aquaman birth name or Atlantean name, the same way Kal-el is Superman's Kryptonian name. Arthur Curry, is the name he got off the Lighthouse Keeper, that raised him. That is what his friends call him. I think he still considers Arthur Curry his name. Ever since OYL and the new guy appearing called Arthur Joseph Curry, DC seem to be defaulting to only calling him Orin. I rather Arthur Curry. Dan Didio doesn't even seem aware that the original Aquaman is called Arthur Curry, thats kinda slow.
It was a plot point that they shared the name. Orin has just been used to differentiate between the two.

On topic, in Flash #9 there's a picture of an incarnation of the JLA that presumably featured Barry - it's obviously set very early in the timeline from the age of the members. It includes Black Canary and Green Arrow, but doesn't have Green Lantern or Martian Manhunter

[tangentman]

I think Birds of Prey hinted at an answer around the time of Dinah's departure. A flashback story of a BC/GA meeting suggested that she and Ollie were the very first recruits for the League. Historically, GA was the first hero recruited by the League during the Silver Age. Personally, if Dinah isn't a League founder, I could settle for her being among the first non-founders to join up.

[LordEd1976]

The latest issue of Justice League of America shows a panel with the group consisting of Batman, Superman, Barry, Aquaman, Wonder Woman, Hal, and Jonn. Though its never outright stated, the implication is the picture shows the first lineup of the JLA.

In Infinite Crisis #6, the picture that shows the Earth exploding has several fragments that show us what are apparently changes that have been made to the timestream. One of these is Wonder Woman as she appears on the cover to the comic showing how the JLA formed. It was this image that hinted at the idea that Wonder Woman has once again been establish as being a Founder. This point was verified the next issue. The point I'm trying to make is that I'm going to out on a limb and say the fouding members of the JLA have retconned back to being the big 7.

[Kid Kyoto]

The point I'm trying to make is that I'm going to out on a limb and say the fouding members of the JLA have retconned back to being the big 7.

Ofcourse they founded it in 2001.

Which for some reason has the cars and clothes of the 1960s.

[marshal99]

The latest issue of Justice League of America shows a panel with the group consisting of Batman, Superman, Barry, Aquaman, Wonder Woman, Hal, and Jonn. Though its never outright stated, the implication is the picture shows the first lineup of the JLA.


From the latest issue of Justice League
Top Left : Looks like a Mike Sekowsky drawing of the original big 7
Bottom Left : The George Perez Pinup of the satellie era JLA & JSA (which is covered up)
Top Middle : The cover of Justice league annual 2 drawn by Chuck Patton , debut of JL detroit
Top right : Of course , the famous Keith Giffen JLI drawn by Kevin Maguire
Bottom right : Morrison JLA as drawn by Howard Porter

[glennsim]

Ofcourse they founded it in 2001.

Which for some reason has the cars and clothes of the 1960s.

I believe they did that to reinforce the notion that "we're going back to what was originally published being the real history".

That conveys to me that Wonder Woman was an original member with Black Canary joining later (as she did in the original comics). But it doesn't necessarily mean that the JLA has been around since the 1960s (any more than it did in 1984).

[Joe Acro]

I was under the impression that no Justice League has Superman and Batman as founders. Certainly not Pre-Crisis, as the cover of Brave and the Bold #28 can attest.

I read the most recent panel in Justice League of America as being about the first time Batman joined.

[kalorama]

I believe they did that to reinforce the notion that "we're going back to what was originally published being the real history".

That conveys to me that Wonder Woman was an original member with Black Canary joining later (as she did in the original comics). But it doesn't necessarily mean that the JLA has been around since the 1960s (any more than it did in 1984).

But what it does do is put the boot to the part of George Perez's post-Crisis/Legends reboot of WW which stated that Diana made her first appearance in the DCU during Legends, by which time the JLA had been around for years.

[Buried Alien]

I was under the impression that no Justice League has Superman and Batman as founders. Certainly not Pre-Crisis, as the cover of Brave and the Bold #28 can attest.

Superman and Batman were occupied by other problems and did not participate in that first Starro mission, but they were already members.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

[Paul Newell]

I was under the impression that no Justice League has Superman and Batman as founders. Certainly not Pre-Crisis, as the cover of Brave and the Bold #28 can attest.

I read the most recent panel in Justice League of America as being about the first time Batman joined.
Superman and Batman were Pre-Crisis founders, it's actually Batman who suggests they form a team in the origin story (JLoA #9).

It was more due to editorial decisions that they mostly cameoed in the first issues, including no cover appearances.