Best Batman movie.

[BatKnight89]

Everyone has a favorite, and mine will always be BATMAN, I was ten years old when it came out and I went every weekend that great Summer of 89 to see my hero Batman on the big screen.

So many good memories from that summer, Bat-mania hit big! You couldn't go anywhere without seeing Batman merchandise.

I had all the action figures and vehicles, wish I still had them.

I collected buttons they had at walgreens, every time I went I got a new one, they had small and giant size ones, I had like two I think of the big ones, don't have those anymore either.

But just the way Keaton did the Batman voice, and that opening scene of the Stone Bat logo and that first time I saw it trying to figure out what it was, then it was revealed, Jack as the Joker was pure genious, that scene when Batman lowers down behind the thugs that mugged that family something like what happened to the Waynes is my favorite scene.

And of course the famous line:"I want you to do me a favor, I want you to tell all your friends about me." "What are you?!" "I'm Batman."

I pretty much love all the Batman movies 'cause I love Batman so much, I even like B&R but, only that opening sequence.

I don't really have a problem with Batman Forever, I could do without the campyness of Two-Face and the over the top stuff from Jim Carrey but, overall I like it, I think of it as an homage to the 50's era of Batman.

But it also got a little more into Bruce's psyche, that deleted scene of him facing the giant Bat rocks, so sad it didn't make it in, it was in the trailer and I was waiting to see it on the big screen but nothing, it was cut to my dismay.

The one thing I was so excited about was when I heard Robin was finally going to make it to the big screen. I was so happy to see what he looked like in an issue of Wizard. Even though Chris O'donnel wasn't all that perfect for the role it was okay, he was kind of like Burt Ward in a way.

I really liked the costume except for the nipples ofcourse, I never minded that too much, it was meant to look like a second skin, but still crappy I know.

Now as for Batman Begins, it brought me back to Batman 'cause I was away from the comics and Batman for a while, but it got to me when I saw it in the theater, it brought back all those memories of being 10 back to me, and I cried in the theater when that line was delivered:"I'm Batman."

I just wish Nolan would have some more imagination and face the fact this is a comic book, and not to act like it's beneath him to make a comic film.

Things like Scarecrow constantly taking his mask off, and no Lazarus pits got on my nerves, and Goyer had to talk Nolan into Scarecrow wearing his mask.

It makes no sense to have a guy in a Bat costume but the villian can't have a costume, it's fantasy, even though Batman has no powers, he is still a super hero and some of his villians have strange abilities and certain things about them that are a bit out there and are very cool.

All in all though a masterpiece, and I can't wait to see the next one, The Dark Knight, but for me, the best will always be Batman 89.

And man if you combined 89 and Begins, whoa that would be amazing!

Now I'm just hoping that Heath does a good job as Joker, and hopefully someday the Batmobile will have more Bat-style.

[a-spidey]

for me it's batman begins :) that's in a way my generation movie of batman.
and christian bale is great as batman imo. Ok, Katie Holmes wasn't that good.

[batmanbegins]

Admittedly, B1989 paved the way for the dark & gritty comic book movies of recent years.. but Batman Begins is still clearly the best Batman movie of all time (IMO). The cast, even Katie, was great. Morgan Freeman was awesome as Lucius. (its spelled lucius not lucious people!)

Anyway, looking forward to THE Dark Knight!

[Stranger With Candy]

For me its Batman Forever. Mainly because i am a big fan of The Riddler. I think Jim Carrey did a great job as The Riddler and Val Kilmer was the best Batman. I also think the story was the best of the Batman movies. And i dont relly know much about Two-Face so i dont know if Tommy Lee Jones did a good job or not. But i liked it. And the Batmobile was awesome.

[TheBatGotHim]

Best live action has to be Batman Begins followed closely behind Batman 1989 and Batman Returns.

[Nefarius]

Batman Mask of the Phantasm is my favourite bat-movie.

[Captain Jim]

1989's Batman is my all-time fav. Everything about it, but especially Jack Nicholson as the Joker (the all time greatest bat villain, IMO).

Batman Begins was very good and is a close second in my mind.

I agree that Jim Carrey was great as the Riddler in Batman Forever, but I thought Tommy Lee Jones was absolutely awful as Two-Face. This movie had too much going on: Two-Face, Riddler, Robin, Batgirl, Bane for gosh sakes.

But I absolutely hated Batman Returns.

[Rattlehead]

Batman Begins is probably my favorite, it's a great movie and it had two of my favorite actors in it, Christian Bale and Liam Neeson. I thought Liam was brilliant as Ras Al Ghoul, he has the inherent coolness about him that the Comic version possesses.

I do have a soft spot for Batman:The Movie though, I liked how it had the entire Rogue's gallery from the TV show in it, and it contains a pile of laughs. From the obviously rubber shark and the shark repellant spray, to the best quote from a Batman movie ever...

"Sometimes you just can't get rid of a bomb!"

In my world, Batman & Robin(the movie) does not exist, nor does Joel Schumacher.

[Hellcow]

Begins wins hands down for me. No question.

[Alan2099]

My favorite is the 89 Batman movie. It had just the right belnd of styliszed dark clashing with the bright Joker scenes, the humor worked, the characters fit together well and even the big vehicles didn't seem out of place.

It was dark but in a heavily stylized way that just seemed to scream comics.

Honestly, I think Begins is vastly overrated. It took too long to get anywhere, Ra's and Scarecrow where wasted, Bale just didn't have the right charisma for the role, and the whole thing seemed like it was trying to take itself way too seriously sacrificing the fun of the concept. Plus the fight scenes were almost unwatchable.

[Ovid]

While I enjoyed the 1989 movie, Returns and Begins, I have to go for Batman 1966, simply because it wasn't up itself. Miller has a lot to answer for, but one of his crimes was robbing Batman of all his joy.

[Bats]

Batman Begins, no question.

[pringlesman]

My favorite is the 89 Batman movie. It had just the right belnd of styliszed dark clashing with the bright Joker scenes, the humor worked, the characters fit together well and even the big vehicles didn't seem out of place.

It was dark but in a heavily stylized way that just seemed to scream comics.

Honestly, I think Begins is vastly overrated. It took too long to get anywhere, Ra's and Scarecrow where wasted, Bale just didn't have the right charisma for the role, and the whole thing seemed like it was trying to take itself way toos eriously sacrificing the fun of the concept. Plus the fight scenes were almost unwatchable.

I would like to echo the comments on batman begins, But Mask of the Phantsmal is deffinitly the best bat movie.

[Stranger With Candy]

I agree that Jim Carrey was great as the Riddler in Batman Forever, but I thought Tommy Lee Jones was absolutely awful as Two-Face. This movie had too much going on: Two-Face, Riddler, Robin, Batgirl, Bane for gosh sakes.


Batgirl and Bane was not in Batman Forever.

[megladon8]

I don't undertand anyone who could give an answer other than Batman Begins.

[TheWraith]

Batman Begins is, by far, the greatest Batman film of all time, showing up all previous Batman films as the inferior products they are.

[BatKnight89]

1989's Batman is my all-time fav. Everything about it, but especially Jack Nicholson as the Joker (the all time greatest bat villain, IMO).

Batman Begins was very good and is a close second in my mind.

I agree that Jim Carrey was great as the Riddler in Batman Forever, but I thought Tommy Lee Jones was absolutely awful as Two-Face. This movie had too much going on: Two-Face, Riddler, Robin, Batgirl, Bane for gosh sakes.

But I absolutely hated Batman Returns.Bat girl and Bane weren't in Forever.

[SMMM]

1989's Batman is my all-time fav. Everything about it, but especially Jack Nicholson as the Joker (the all time greatest bat villain, IMO).

Batman Begins was very good and is a close second in my mind.

I agree that Jim Carrey was great as the Riddler in Batman Forever, but I thought Tommy Lee Jones was absolutely awful as Two-Face. This movie had too much going on: Two-Face, Riddler, Robin, Batgirl, Bane for gosh sakes.

But I absolutely hated Batman Returns.

Batgirl and Bane weren't in Forever, Jim. ;)

As for the topic itself, '89 and Returns are fun to watch, but Begins is the best BATMAN movie. I like to pretend the Shumacher films never existed.

[BatKnight89]

Batman Begins is, by far, the greatest Batman film of all time, showing up all previous Batman films as the inferior products they are.
Not at all. Everyone acts like BB was 100% faithful and so on, but it is in no way that faithful, Ra's didn't help train Bruce, and Scarecrow wears his mask for more than 2 seconds, also Bale's voice is too forced, but Oldman as Gordon is brilliant, Katie Holmes sucks, I'm so glad she is out of the sequel.:p

[SMMM]

Not at all. Everyone acts like BB was 100% faithful and so on, but it is in no way that faithful, Ra's didn't help train Bruce, and Scarecrow wears his mask for more than 2 seconds, also Bale's voice is too forced, but Oldman as Gordon is brilliant, Katie Holmes sucks, I'm so glad she is out of the sequel.:p

But here's the thing, the movie was actually focused on Batman, and not his rogues or partners. That fact alone gets it a lot of cred. Not 100% faithful, but it's the best we've gotten so far.

[Stranger With Candy]

But here's the thing, the movie was actually focused on Batman, and not his rogues or partners. That fact alone gets it a lot of cred. Not 100% faithful, but it's the best we've gotten so far.

I find the Batman villians to be far more interesting than Batman himself. I dont think Batman would have been that big of a hero if it wasnt for the great villians. I thought BB war pretty boring because they made the villians look so boring in it. Like BatKnight89 says, Scarecrow almost never whears his mask. I found that to be rather stupid. Like in the next movie they are going the make The Joker be a normal guy with a card deck.
So the villians is an inportant part of Batman. And the older movies did a great job with the villians.

[Lorendiac]

I lean toward "Batman Forever" for the grand prize. I might put "Begins" in second place, but I'm not sure.

[Powerboy]

Well, obviously, the 1960s Batman movie with Adam West and Burt Ward was the best.

I am joking. But, I saw it when I was around ten or thereabouts and, were I ten now, I would probably say it was the best (as I wouldn't have been allowed to see any of the later ones at that age).

The best is "Batman Begins". For me, its not even worth debating. We had The Joker movie and I think it was nice of Jack Nicholson to let Batman be in his movie. But we had a two hour movie in which 15 minutes were thrown away on filming the Joker prancing around breaking things in a museum. All the sequels were padded with a ton of characters just as the first one was padded with superficial scenes. All atmosphere, no substance.

One critic echoed the sentiments of so many of us fans when he said of Batman Begins, "This was the Batman movie I wanted to see all along."

[Your Imaginary Pal]

My brother put it best after his first time watching Batman Begins.
He said this isn't a superhero/comic book movie it's a movie that is about a superhero.

simple distinction, but it speaks volumes of truth.

[Alan2099]

I don't undertand anyone who could give an answer other than Batman Begins.

That's okay. I don't understand anyone who could give Batman Begins as the answer. :p

[Citizen V]

I don't undertand anyone who could give an answer other than Batman Begins.

Some have a spot for classics.As for me,i would say Batman(1989) or Mask of The Phantasm.

[Captain Jim]

Okay, everybody can stop pointing out that Batgirl and Bane weren’t in Batman Forever; I get the message. ;) That’s what I get for relying on my memory. Obviously, I had somehow merged Batman Forever and Batman & Robin in my mind. The latter is the one that had too much going on, with Mr. Freeze, Poison Ivy, Batgirl, Robin and Bane. Still, my main point about Carrey’s outstanding performance and Jones’ lackluster performance still stands.

[BatKnight89]

I find the Batman villians to be far more interesting than Batman himself. I dont think Batman would have been that big of a hero if it wasnt for the great villians. I thought BB war pretty boring because they made the villians look so boring in it. Like BatKnight89 says, Scarecrow almost never whears his mask. I found that to be rather stupid. Like in the next movie they are going the make The Joker be a normal guy with a card deck.
So the villians is an inportant part of Batman. And the older movies did a great job with the villians.Agreed. You have to have a balance, and some say there wasn't enough Batman before but I think it was very well balanced.

They did focus on the villians but like with Batman forever they got more into Bruce's psyche.

The Joker in the next one had better be more than just a regular guy with a deck of cards.

[BatKnight89]

Batman 89, has a great cast, and a good story, I love it for so many reasons, sentimental and otherwise.

The only thing I still don't agree with is the Joker being the Wayne's killer which Samm Hamm did not want but there was a writers strike and they were over in England and they went with it and he couldn't stop it.

All in all, one great Bat movie. And it has the best Batmobile ever!

Batman Returns was good but not as good as Batman, I still would've liked to see the Penguin done with more class than just being a freak, but I still love. I never heard that people thought it was too dark until recently when the Anthology came out, every time I saw it in the theaters everyone even little ones loved it. I was 12 when it came out.

Batman Forever was great for a few reasons, even though I love Keaton it was nice to see a younger Bruce, and bigger, but also I loved finally seeing Robin brought to the silver screen. I also liked seeing the Batmobile with the classic fin. Two-Face was a bit much, but The Riddler made up for it. I could do without the neon, but I liked how it got into Bruce's past and mind a bit more. It was not as bad as Batman and Robin at least.

Batman and Robin, now that is a whole other kettle of fish, I love Batman and would pretty much take anything with Batman, but as I sat in that theater in 1997, I wanted to puke when I saw what they did to my favorite superhero.

I like the opening but that is it, and let's not forget how bad they ruined Bane, what a shame and a waste of a great villian who deserved to be the main villian in a Bat film. Maybe someday.

Batman Begins, very good, but a bit dull at times, it's missing that Gothic feel that Batman does have, not just because of Burton, but he got that feel right as did the Elfman score, the Scarecrow was barely noticable, quit taking off the mask!, Nolan acts like he's ashamed to make an all out Comic Book movie, don't do it then if you feel it's beneath you. I mean for goodness sakes it is a movie about a guy in a rubber Bat suit jumping off roof tops.

Flare for the theatrical, then let's see the theatrical. Joker better get done right, and respectfully to the comics. One other thing, the suit isn't that good at all, and I'm glad they're changing it. If they wanted to go away from Clooney then why put the clasps back on the suit, that was the first thing I noticed and all it did was remind me of the Batman and Robin suit with the clasps on the cape, and it's too tight around the mouth and looks strange at times, and the opening is too small. Also it would have been nice to have a better color scheme to the suit, Black bat, gloves mask, cape, boots, and the rest grey.

And I cannot forget the animated movies, Mask of the Phantasm is a masterpiece, as is every one of the episodes of TAS, which were all done as mini movies.;)

Sub-Zero is also done very well, I liked the cgi moments, and it led into the WB series, it was like a series/season finale type thing. Funny how this was better than the big budget live action B&R, too bad that couldn't have been more like this.

I even like Mystery of the Batwoman, it's not bad at all, and Bane's in it done pretty well.

[We R. Venom]

I don't undertand anyone who could give an answer other than Batman Begins.

That's because your not me.:D Batman, is the best Bat movie. Michael Keaton, Jack Nicholson.

[The Xenos]

I think Batman Begins and Mask of the Phantasm are up there as my favorites. I like Burton's first Batman and the 1966 Batman in their own way. The other ones I rather don't care for.

[The Shadow]

As for the topic itself, '89 and Returns are fun to watch, but Begins is the best BATMAN movie. I like to pretend the Shumacher films never existed.

Pretty much sums up my thoughts as well.

[Sophisticated_Gamer]

Haven't been made yet.

[TheWraith]

Not at all. Everyone acts like BB was 100% faithful and so on, but it is in no way that faithful, Ra's didn't help train Bruce, and Scarecrow wears his mask for more than 2 seconds, also Bale's voice is too forced, but Oldman as Gordon is brilliant, Katie Holmes sucks, I'm so glad she is out of the sequel.:p

I never said it was 100% faithful, I said it was, by far, the best. And I stand by that statement!

[The Xenos]

Batman Begins is more faithful and more based on recent comics than any of the other movies. And by recent I mean anything pubished after the 60s. Sure they mixed a few things together, but considering they have two hours to tell a story with so many characters instead of months or years, I'll cut them some slack for edits.

[xnef1025]

Begins is the best done of them. Burton's movies get props for opening the door back up for serious superhero movies after the Superman franchise tanked. Forever was ok. Jones was bad, Carrey was good, Kidman was hot, and the story was serviceable. Batman and Robin? What Batman and Robin? There weren't any other movies made between Forever and Begins.

The best thing about this thread is it reminded me to add Batman: The Movie onto my Netflix queue. If for no other reason than to watch it with the in-character Adam West and Burt Ward commentary. Comedic gold :D

[Alan2099]

Batman Begins is more faithful and more based on recent comics than any of the other movies. And by recent I mean anything pubished after the 60s. Sure they mixed a few things together, but considering they have two hours to tell a story with so many characters instead of months or years, I'll cut them some slack for edits.

Honestly, I disagree with this. I don't think it really captured the feel at all. It was to dark and down to earth and there was no play with it. Even the most cynical gritties Batman stories have a certain level of absurdity to them, while Begins felt like it was ashamed to realy show any of the superheroics of villians.

Now Begins was a decent Frank Miller Batman adaption, but even then Frank accepts more of the silly aspects and treats things in a much more stylized manner.

If there was anything missing from Begins, it was a sense of style. The thing was just too bleak. ... Well, okay, the style is probably the SECOND thing it was most missing, the first was a decent supervillian.

[Lorendiac]

Batman Begins is more faithful and more based on recent comics than any of the other movies. And by recent I mean anything pubished after the 60s. Sure they mixed a few things together, but considering they have two hours to tell a story with so many characters instead of months or years, I'll cut them some slack for edits.

I actually thought "Batman Forever" came closer to being a faithful adaptation of the "modern" comics (post-Silver Age, as you mention) than "Batman Begins" ever managed.

[CDB]

1. Batman Begins
2. Batman (89)
3. Batman Return of the Joker (DCAU)
4. Batman Returns
5. Batman: Mask of the Phantasm (DCAU)
6. Batman: Sub Zero (DCAU)
7. Batman Forever


Batman and Robin never happened in my book!!!:mad:

[megladon8]

I feel that a good movie should come first, and dedication to source material should come second.

Batman ('89) failed on both accounts - not only was it a piss-poor movie, but it was an abomination to the Batman legend.

Jack Nicholson wasn't The Joker...he was Jack Nicholson with a clown face. It was a disgrace.

However, Batman Returns only fails in the accuracy-to-the-comics department. It is easily Tim Burton's best film to date, and improves on almsot everything that Batman sucked at doing.

Batman Begins, on the other hand, was not only a better movie than either of those - using the cinematic language to a much fuller extent - but it was leaps and bounds more faithful to the source material.

[The Batman]

Honestly, I disagree with this. I don't think it really captured the feel at all. It was to dark and down to earth and there was no play with it. Even the most cynical gritties Batman stories have a certain level of absurdity to them, while Begins felt like it was ashamed to realy show any of the superheroics of villians.

Now Begins was a decent Frank Miller Batman adaption, but even then Frank accepts more of the silly aspects and treats things in a much more stylized manner.

If there was anything missing from Begins, it was a sense of style. The thing was just too bleak. ... Well, okay, the style is probably the SECOND thing it was most missing, the first was a decent supervillian.

I agree, Nolan's obsession with making everything so realistic robbed the movie of a sense of fun and style.

It also was missing a Batman who could think for himself rather than have anyone and everyone else figure out the best way for him to do things was. Most every incarnation of Batman has learned from other people sure, and lotsa other people at that, but how he used that knowledge, what he made himself was all him. I didn't get that from this Batman.

Nolan changed alot of things from the comics in order to give us his version of Batman. It was an entertaining enough film to be sure, but it was hardly a super faithful adaptation of the Batman of the comics.

[Powerboy]

I remember sitting in the theater watching the first Tim Burton Batman movie. It was the scene where the Joker was prancing around the museum and the scene went on and on. I did something I have seldom ever done at a movie- I looked at my watch and let out a sigh of boredom. Then the scene went on and on and I looked at my watch again. The total scene was probably at least ten minutes long. So much valuable screen time had already been wasted on trivial scenes like this that just dragged on and I suddenly realized that the whole movie was going to be like this. I really wanted to see some in depth stuff involving Batman. Then again, I would have settled for some in depth "Killing Joke" quality stuff involving the Joker. Years later, when I read Roger Ebert's review, he said something that put it into words for me, "All atmosphere, no substance."

Batman Begins may not have had the atmosphere of a Burton movie, but it had characters in it that felt more real and it wasn't padded with superficial scenes and superficial characters piled on top of each other. It was about the story and the character which makes it far superior in my opinion.

I feel that a good movie should come first, and dedication to source material should come second.

Batman ('89) failed on both accounts - not only was it a piss-poor movie, but it was an abomination to the Batman legend.

Jack Nicholson wasn't The Joker...he was Jack Nicholson with a clown face. It was a disgrace.

However, Batman Returns only fails in the accuracy-to-the-comics department. It is easily Tim Burton's best film to date, and improves on almsot everything that Batman sucked at doing.

Batman Begins, on the other hand, was not only a better movie than either of those - using the cinematic language to a much fuller extent - but it was leaps and bounds more faithful to the source material.

[BatKnight89]

I agree, Nolan's obsession with making everything so realistic robbed the movie of a sense of fun and style.

It also was missing a Batman who could think for himself rather than have anyone and everyone else figure out the best way for him to do things was. Most every incarnation of Batman has learned from other people sure, and lotsa other people at that, but how he used that knowledge, what he made himself was all him. I didn't get that from this Batman.

Nolan changed alot of things from the comics in order to give us his version of Batman. It was an entertaining enough film to be sure, but it was hardly a super faithful adaptation of the Batman of the comics.
Agreed. Some of the kids try to defend it and say it is better than BATMAN, but it's not, and they try to say it's more faithful, and it's not. Sure it is good but not perfect. And I am sick and tired of filmmakers changing things and putting there 2 cents in, I don't wanna' see an outsider's thoughts on Batman, I wanna' see Bob Kane's Batman. There should be a sense of funa nd fantasy to Batman, he may have no powers in one way but yet he does in other ways, and his villians are not always realistic like Freeze and Clayface, they are cool, and I'm afraid that with someone like Nolan lacking imagination with a comic book film those characters will never make it to the silver screen.

And I would so love to see Freeze done the right way.

[BatKnight89]

Some other things bothered me in BB, Flass and Loeb, it made no sense to change them. I hadn't read Year One in a long long time, and when I recently read it I was like, oh yeah Loeb's an old white man, they should not have changed that, he was a better character in the book, as was Flass.

They should've taken more from the Year One comics. I am so sick of them messing up casting, especially race 'cause then it's not even that character.

Falcone didn't seem right either, I thought of him having more class, and speaking differently than sounding like a two bit hood.

Maybe by three they'll get a better director with more respect for the books, 'cause the real Batman in the comics is more entertaining.

[The Xenos]

Now Begins was a decent Frank Miller Batman adaption, but even then Frank accepts more of the silly aspects and treats things in a much more stylized manner.

If there was anything missing from Begins, it was a sense of style. The thing was just too bleak. ... Well, okay, the style is probably the SECOND thing it was most missing, the first was a decent supervillian.

Well, not really in Year One. Year One was more on the street. The costumed loonies didn't show up yet. Begins took the tone of year one and also borrowed from a bunch of O'Neil comics. Yes, Ra's wasn't done totally right. I do have some quibbles there, but they did need to fit it into two hours.

Now with the second one, I hope they get some of the more crazy stuff you see in Long Halloween and later books. Though even there it was more noirish and more scary than goofy.

[Darth Joker]

As I wrote on the TV/Film board, the 1989 Batman was my favourite, but that's mainly because I'm a huge Joker fan (and as good as Batman Begins is, it didn't have Joker in it, and that does make a big difference to me).

If they get Joker right in the sequel to Batman Begins, that movie could very well become my favourite Batman movie of all time, but for right now, it's definitely the '89 Batman movie.

What I like most about Batman Begins is that they finally got Commissioner Gordon right (big kudos to Gary Oldman there). He was terribly miscasted, and/or scripted in a disrespectful fashion (he was virtually invisible in the Burton movies... an IDIOT in the Schumacher films), in almost *all* the other Batman movies.

[Ovid]

I agree, Nolan's obsession with making everything so realistic robbed the movie of a sense of fun and style.Which is why I prefer 1966 Batman. :)

I think the main problem is that live action movies don't mix street-level and fantasy as well as animation and comics. You either have to have a world whose physics allow someone like Superman, in which case Batman is completely ouclassed, or you have a realistic world whose physics aren't much more strained than any other action movie, in which case they can't support a Superman (or Clayface).

What do you get when you try to mix the two kinds of worlds in live action? Answer: Smallville (which wouldn't work on the big screen) or Batman & Robin. :eek:

It also was missing a Batman who could think for himself rather than have anyone and everyone else figure out the best way for him to do things was. Most every incarnation of Batman has learned from other people sure, and lotsa other people at that, but how he used that knowledge, what he made himself was all him. I didn't get that from this Batman.To be fair, it was an origin story. None of the other movies had that, including 1989 Batman.

Nolan changed alot of things from the comics in order to give us his version of Batman. It was an entertaining enough film to be sure, but it was hardly a super faithful adaptation of the Batman of the comics.I've never understood the 'not faithful' criticism. If you want a Batman like in the comics, why don't you, uh... , read the comics? Film is a completely different medium. So long as the essentials are there (rich kid sees parents murdered and grows up to fight crime in Gotham dressed as a bat), it's a Batman movie. Whether it's a good one depends on how that concept is played out in the movie world, not how closely it matches how the concept works in an entirely different place. It's like saying you don't like Superman Returns because it's not faithful to Smallville. There are many sensible reasons for disliking that movie, but I can't see how that's one of them.

Oh, and Billy Dee Williams was the best Harvey Dent ever. :D

[Darth Joker]

Which is why I prefer 1966 Batman. :)

I think the main problem is that live action movies don't mix street-level and fantasy as well as animation and comics. You either have to have a world whose physics allow someone like Superman, in which case Batman is completely ouclassed, ...

In the hopes of us one day having a serious Justice League live-action movie, I have to disagree with you here.

If you build up Batman's detective skills, intelligence, intensity, and resources, I think that you can have him not look out of place in alongside Superman.

[yourverysilly]

begins and mask of the phantasm. I did watch the 1989 one recently...its nto as bad as I remembered it, but those first 4 were all ridicolous for a variety of reasons, and when they hand you the perfection that is Batman Begins, well, any self respecting batman fan needs to bow down to nolan and goyer.
And phantasm is just genius.

[BatKnight89]

If you don't get Batman 89 and all you do is praise Nolan then you're not a Bat-Fan.

[The Batman]

Which is why I prefer 1966 Batman. :)

I think the main problem is that live action movies don't mix street-level and fantasy as well as animation and comics. You either have to have a world whose physics allow someone like Superman, in which case Batman is completely ouclassed, or you have a realistic world whose physics aren't much more strained than any other action movie, in which case they can't support a Superman (or Clayface).

What do you get when you try to mix the two kinds of worlds in live action? Answer: Smallville (which wouldn't work on the big screen) or Batman & Robin. :eek:

To be fair, it was an origin story. None of the other movies had that, including 1989 Batman.

I've never understood the 'not faithful' criticism. If you want a Batman like in the comics, why don't you, uh... , read the comics? Film is a completely different medium. So long as the essentials are there (rich kid sees parents murdered and grows up to fight crime in Gotham dressed as a bat), it's a Batman movie. Whether it's a good one depends on how that concept is played out in the movie world, not how closely it matches how the concept works in an entirely different place. It's like saying you don't like Superman Returns because it's not faithful to Smallville. There are many sensible reasons for disliking that movie, but I can't see how that's one of them.

Oh, and Billy Dee Williams was the best Harvey Dent ever. :D

I do read the comics and I did like Batman Begins as well as Batman, Batman Returns, and even parts of Batman Forever. I've never said that Batman Begins was not a Batman movie, or that it's even a bad movie so I don't know where that's coming from. My problem wasn't with Batman Begins praise, it's with the misleading claim that Batman Begins is somehow super-faithful to the comics when it really isn't.



Most of my problems with Batman Begins aren't with the changes made in particular but with how those changes served the character of Batman. I'm not upset that Lucius Fox (who should've been played by Billy Dee btw :D) was turned into a tech genius who is in on the secret, I just didn't like the way it made it seem like Batman has zero scientific knowledge. I'm not upset that they added Rachel though I'd have preferred a different actress, I just didn't like the way it seemed that she had more inhierent courage and determination than Bruce Wayne did. I mean no one had to slap her in the face, twice, to teach her that killing is wrong. I'm not upset that Ras Ah Ghul was Batman's primary mentor, I really think that's a clever way of linking the two characters actually, I just didn't like how it seemed that Ras told him how to be Batman from the theatricality to the ninja stuff.

I understand that part of Nolan's obsession with realism means that Batman isn't going to be able to do everything for himself like he does in the comics but here he really came off to me like a guy who just did what he was told and not the self-defined character that we usually read about in the comics, see on the cartoons or encountered in most of the other movies.

As for street level and fantastic elements not always mixing well, I think you've got a point there. One of my other problems with the movie was that it felt a little uneven. I mean the first 3/4 of the film we get this personal and very street level Batman story which is great. Nolan's Batman totally fit into the world that Nolan created for him. The Tumbler chase was the just the right mix of realism and over the top action. Awesome. Then we get to the climax, Ras Ah Ghul's Rube Goldbergesque cartoon supervillian plot #16 to detroy the city using the monorail and a nonsensical microwave emitter weapon. This sort of stuff just seemed all the more over the top given the street level grit we'd been dealing with up until then. They could've handled the Joker's, I mean Ras', plan to gas the city a bunch of different ways that would've better fit into the world that Nolan had created.

[Powerboy]

If you don't get Batman 89 and all you do is praise Nolan then you're not a Bat-Fan.

Well I guess that settles that. I just thought there was far more depth to Batman than that.

In terms of how good Batman movies are, I would rate them as follows (discounting "Sub-Zero" and "Batman and Robin" which I have not seen).

Mask of the Phantasm

Begins and Batman (1989) probably tied, Begins for substance and Burton's film for atmosphere.

Returns

The 1966 Batman movie

Batman Forever

In terms of which ones I personally like the most

Begins (origin and character depth and insight)

Phantasm (tremendous characterization)

Returns (Catwoman's in it)

The 1966 movie (it was what it was trying to be- campy)

Batman Forever (at least it was fun)

Batman (1989)

[Powerboy]

I would not claim it is more true to the comics than the previous series. Both Begins and the Burton movie and its sequels have things that deviate from the comics. But Begins gets to the essence of who and what Batman is which, in my opinion, the previous series did not.

I also thought that having someone else be the technological expert was a wonderful touch. I know that the Batman of the comics is the strongest and the fastest and the smartest and the best detective and the best tech person and the best computer person and the best martial artist and and and and...

I know that for people who can't stand to see one minute detail changed, no movie will cut it. But I think that the audience in general responded positively to this slightly more realistic approach. Wow, so Batman did not single-handedly design and build every single component of his computer and his car and his costume and utility belt. The audience response I saw seemed to be that this actually made the character a little more believable. If anything it enhanced the illusion that someone could really pull off this Batman thing.

One of the great appeals of Batman is that illusion that with enough training and money, someone could really do the things he does. The essence I referred to, as developed in the movie, was the core that Batman refuses to ever become a true vigilante. He will not kill. He may not save someone but he doesn't drop bombs from the Batmobile and blow them up either.

I do read the comics and I did like Batman Begins as well as Batman, Batman Returns, and even parts of Batman Forever. I've never said that Batman Begins was not a Batman movie, or that it's even a bad movie so I don't know where that's coming from. My problem wasn't with Batman Begins praise, it's with the misleading claim that Batman Begins is somehow super-faithful to the comics when it really isn't.

Most of my problems with Batman Begins aren't with the changes made in particular but with how those changes served the character of Batman. I'm not upset that Lucius Fox (who should've been played by Billy Dee btw :D) was turned into a tech genius who is in on the secret, I just didn't like the way it made it seem like Batman has zero scientific knowledge. I'm not upset that they added Rachel though I'd have preferred a different actress, I just didn't like the way it seemed that she had more inhierent courage and determination than Bruce Wayne did. I mean no one had to slap her in the face, twice, to teach her that killing is wrong. I'm not upset that Ras Ah Ghul was Batman's primary mentor, I really think that's a clever way of linking the two characters actually, I just didn't like how it seemed that Ras told him how to be Batman from the theatricality to the ninja stuff.

I understand that part of Nolan's obsession with realism means that Batman isn't going to be able to do everything for himself like he does in the comics but here he really came off to me like a guy who just did what he was told and not the self-defined character that we usually read about in the comics, see on the cartoons or encountered in most of the other movies.

As for street level and fantastic elements not always mixing well, I think you've got a point there. One of my other problems with the movie was that it felt a little uneven. I mean the first 3/4 of the film we get this personal and very street level Batman story which is great. Nolan's Batman totally fit into the world that Nolan created for him. The Tumbler chase was the just the right mix of realism and over the top action. Awesome. Then we get to the climax, Ras Ah Ghul's Rube Goldbergesque cartoon supervillian plot #16 to detroy the city using the monorail and a nonsensical microwave emitter weapon. This sort of stuff just seemed all the more over the top given the street level grit we'd been dealing with up until then. They could've handled the Joker's, I mean Ras', plan to gas the city a bunch of different ways that would've better fit into the world that Nolan had created.

[Predator117]

Batman Begins. definitely. just an awesome. awesome movie.

[The Batman]

Again for the millionth time, it's not that I am arguing Batman Begins is a bad film or that it's even a bad Batman film, only that it's hardly the ideal faithful translation of the Batman of the comics that so many people insist on it being. Those are two different things, being a good movie, and being a totally faithful adaptation of the comics. Sometimes they coincide, often times they don't. To me Batman Begins was the former, for the most part, but definately not the latter.

I don't mind that things have been changed, I just wasn't that fond of what all those little changes add up too. It's not because Batman didn't build all his gadgets, I couldn't care less about that, it's because in Batman Begins it felt like we got a Batman who didn't determine his own path but rather had one handed to him for or less.

[TheWraith]

Batman Begins got the feel right, the atmosphere, and the focus on Batman/Bruce Wayne above all else right. That's the most important thing, and that's why it's, by far, the best Batman film of them all!

[BatKnight89]

Producer Denise Denovi said it best, movies should make you say I forgot all of my problems and went to another place for 2 hours.

I don't wanna' see the real world with Batman, I like that fantasy version of the world, it is a comic book, and you shouldn't say if you want to see Batman from the comics then just read the comics, that makes no sense, because the movies are based on the comics and should respect that, I'm a huge fan and I wanna' see Batman from the comic books brought to life that is the whole point, other wise just go make a movie about something else, 'cause if you don't want to make a Batman movie then don't bother.

BB didn't get the feel right like Burton's films did.

[Captain Jim]

Better late than never...it suddenly occurred to me to add a poll to this thread. Please vote for your favorite movie. :)

[Powerboy]

Interesting as that is exactly how I felt about Burton's movie. If his goal was to present a Joker that was reminescent of the Killing Joke, he didn't. It was just Jack Nicholson playing Jack Nicholson. It didn't feel much like the comic to me. It felt boring actually. Batman Begins felt much more like Batman.

Producer Denise Denovi said it best, movies should make you say I forgot all of my problems and went to another place for 2 hours.

I don't wanna' see the real world with Batman, I like that fantasy version of the world, it is a comic book, and you shouldn't say if you want to see Batman from the comics then just read the comics, that makes no sense, because the movies are based on the comics and should respect that, I'm a huge fan and I wanna' see Batman from the comic books brought to life that is the whole point, other wise just go make a movie about something else, 'cause if you don't want to make a Batman movie then don't bother.

BB didn't get the feel right like Burton's films did.

[Nomad]

Michael Keaton definitey grew on me. Christian Bale, I'll never get over. Imho, he's worse than Clooney (weirdest casting decision ever). If Bale is Bruce Wayne, then I'm gonna pass on the theatrical release of the next few bat movies.

[Fish Sauce]

If you don't get Batman 89 and all you do is praise Nolan then you're not a Bat-Fan.

...

"Don't get"?

I haven't seen the original Batman in ages, not sure if I've ever seen the whole thing in one sitting actually. I do think I enjoyed it, though.

Batman Begins is my favourite.

I don't see why that's a problem.

[Joe Acro]

I flip back and forth between Phantasm and Forever. Today, I'm feeling like Phantasm.

[Powerboy]

Batman is such an archetypal character that people have different images of who and what he is or should be. Personally, above all else I thought the Burton movie messed with the essence of Batman. When he dropped the bomb from the Batmobile and blew those guys up, my reaction was, "That is NOT Batman." The Batman does not kill. That has remained true in just about every incarnation. You can mess a bit with the details. You can have Catwoman as a not too bright secretary who gets cat powers for no particular reason and the Penguin with fangs or Lucius Fox as a gadgeteer but don't mess with the essence of the character.

But again its perception. You thought Burton's film was more true to the comics than Begins. I found the exact opposite to be true. I was 31 when I saw Burton's film and I found it to be only superficially like the comics. I thought Begins really understood the essence of Batman, who he is and how he came to be.

With respect to the Burton movie (and I dearly loved his previous 'Edward Scissorhands' movie), I think he was primarily interested in capturing the 'feel' of Gotham City and its inhabitants rather than capturing what must be going on inside the characters- the latter being the real fascination of Batman for me.

Producer Denise Denovi said it best, movies should make you say I forgot all of my problems and went to another place for 2 hours.

I don't wanna' see the real world with Batman, I like that fantasy version of the world, it is a comic book, and you shouldn't say if you want to see Batman from the comics then just read the comics, that makes no sense, because the movies are based on the comics and should respect that, I'm a huge fan and I wanna' see Batman from the comic books brought to life that is the whole point, other wise just go make a movie about something else, 'cause if you don't want to make a Batman movie then don't bother.

BB didn't get the feel right like Burton's films did.

[Captain Jim]

I am embarrassed to admit that I have never seen either of the animated movies. But from all the positive comments here, I think I really must pick up a copy of Mask of the Phantasm.

[Sean Whitmore]

I am embarrassed to admit that I have never seen either of the animated movies. But from all the positive comments here, I think I really must pick up a copy of Mask of the Phantasm.

It might seem a little less impressive now, only because Justice League has really pushed the boundaries of what the animated DCU can accomplish in terms of action and drama. But it's still damn good, and at the time it was almost unbelievable.


SEAN

[BeastieRunner]

Batman Begins for me followed by Mask of the Phantasm in a close second.

I'd like to add a quote from Bruce Campbell on the Batman franchise, "It finally took five tries to get it right."

Link 1 (http://www.cnn.com/2005/SHOWBIZ/07/13/showbuzz/index.html)
Link 2 (http://www.cnn.com/2005/SHOWBIZ/07/13/showbuzz/index.html)

[Powerboy]

I like the quote from Bruce Campbell. It even beats Roger Ebert's, "This is the Batman movie I wanted to see all along."

On a technical level, Campbell's quote is mistaken, of course. It took six tries. The 1966 Batman movie was the first Batman movie even though people generally refer to the Burton movie as the first. In fact, it took seven tries to get it right because there was a 1940s serial that would count as a Batman movie. :cool:

Batman Begins for me followed by Mask of the Phantasm in a close second.

I'd like to add a quote from Bruce Campbell on the Batman franchise, "It finally took five tries to get it right."

Link 1 (http://www.cnn.com/2005/SHOWBIZ/07/13/showbuzz/index.html)
Link 2 (http://www.cnn.com/2005/SHOWBIZ/07/13/showbuzz/index.html)

[vazel]

Batman Returns. I love how dark it is.

[Captain Jim]

In fact, it took seven tries to get it right because there was a 1940s serial that would count as a Batman movie. :cool:

If you're going to start counting the serials, there were actually two of them.

[Powerboy]

If you're going to start counting the serials, there were actually two of them.

Yeah it's debatable of serials count. The 1966 Batman was definitely a movie though.

[Rupertmetal]

I think Batman Begins is the best because it is the most like the comics.

I don't think the makers of any of the other Batman movies ever looked at some Batman comics and/or graphic novels for reference. And if they did they didn't try to make the movies similar to the comics.

Although, I still like Batman Returns because of its darkness and I like Michelle Phifer as Catwoman. Jim Carry's performance as the Riddler was great in Forever, but I don't think it was anywhere near to how Riddler acts in the comics. And The Mask of the Phantasm is awesome because the voice actors for Batman and Joker nail they're characters. Those two guys are those two characters voices, hands down.

[Powerboy]

Actually the writer of the 1989 Batman wrote a good two-parter in the comic where Batman was temporarily in a wheelchair. It may have been the forerunner of stuff that was done later. He or Burton mentioned that the feeling they were trying to capture with the movie was something similar to "The Killing Joke" graphic novel. Obviously, they did not succeed.

I think Batman Begins is the best because it is the most like the comics.

I don't think the makers of any of the other Batman movies ever looked at some Batman comics and/or graphic novels for reference. And if they did they didn't try to make the movies similar to the comics.

Although, I still like Batman Returns because of its darkness and I like Michelle Phifer as Catwoman. Jim Carry's performance as the Riddler was great in Forever, but I don't think it was anywhere near to how Riddler acts in the comics. And The Mask of the Phantasm is awesome because the voice actors for Batman and Joker nail they're characters. Those two guys are those two characters voices, hands down.

[Phil Hunn]

I love the Burton Bat-movies, and even find a level of enjoyment in Batman Forever... but Batman Begins reigns supreme above them all.

Christian Bale is truly the best Batman. Aside from Adam West, obviously ;)

[The Lucky One]

One of the great appeals of Batman is that illusion that with enough training and money, someone could really do the things he does. The essence I referred to, as developed in the movie, was the core that Batman refuses to ever become a true vigilante. He will not kill. He may not save someone but he doesn't drop bombs from the Batmobile and blow them up either.

See, that was one of my few problems with Begins. I liked the movie a lot, but to Batman, there's no difference between those two examples you listed- having the opportunity to save someone and not taking it makes you every bit as guilty as if you'd pulled the trigger yourself. Thus, the scene where he can save Ra's and doesn't grates on me every single time.

To me it's Phantasm (http://www.mutantreviewers.com/rbatmask.html), because it accomplishes everything Begins and the '89 movie did -- shows Bruce's development into Batman, what led him from a simple desire to fight crime to actually becoming the Bat -- but does it on a grander scale. There's things you can do in animation that you simply can't in live action, no matter how large your budget, and the characterization in Phantasm is second to none. And frankly, Kevin Conroy and Mark Hamill ARE Batman and the Joker... those are the voices I hear coming out of those characters' mouths and always will, no matter what the medium.

-D

[ZacharyLovesYou]

No Batman Beyond: Return of The Joker?

A crime.

[Slortex]

See, that was one of my few problems with Begins. I liked the movie a lot, but to Batman, there's no difference between those two examples you listed- having the opportunity to save someone and not taking it makes you every bit as guilty as if you'd pulled the trigger yourself. Thus, the scene where he can save Ra's and doesn't grates on me every single time.


I wouldn't be surprised if Goyer and Nolan were told they needed the villain to die. They nailed so many other aspects of his character that to miss that point... its odd. I'm hopeful that in the sequels, Joker and Two-Face are not killed at the end of the films. I think letting someone die isn't as heroic as saving them. Begins is definitely my favorite movie, though.


To me it's Phantasm, because it accomplishes everything Begins and the '89 movie did -- shows Bruce's development into Batman, what led him from a simple desire to fight crime to actually becoming the Bat -- but does it on a grander scale. There's things you can do in animation that you simply can't in live action, no matter how large your budget, and the characterization in Phantasm is second to none. And frankly, Kevin Conroy and Mark Hamill ARE Batman and the Joker... those are the voices I hear coming out of those characters' mouths and always will, no matter what the medium.

Phantasm was definitely great.

[Powerboy]

I agree with you. Although I choose Begins far over the 1989 movie, Phantasm is the ultimate Batman movie of the ones I have seen.

See, that was one of my few problems with Begins. I liked the movie a lot, but to Batman, there's no difference between those two examples you listed- having the opportunity to save someone and not taking it makes you every bit as guilty as if you'd pulled the trigger yourself. Thus, the scene where he can save Ra's and doesn't grates on me every single time.

To me it's Phantasm (http://www.mutantreviewers.com/rbatmask.html), because it accomplishes everything Begins and the '89 movie did -- shows Bruce's development into Batman, what led him from a simple desire to fight crime to actually becoming the Bat -- but does it on a grander scale. There's things you can do in animation that you simply can't in live action, no matter how large your budget, and the characterization in Phantasm is second to none. And frankly, Kevin Conroy and Mark Hamill ARE Batman and the Joker... those are the voices I hear coming out of those characters' mouths and always will, no matter what the medium.

-D

[Powerboy]

No Batman Beyond: Return of The Joker?

A crime.

Personally I haven't seen that one. The problem a lot of us probably have with the animated ones is simply not having seen them all.

If I remember correctly, Phantasm was at the theater only as a Saturday matinee and treated by the theaters as if it was a children's Batman movie just because it was animated. Absurd. Children were bored with it. It was totally beyond their level. The live action Batman movies were more cartoons for children in the sense that they could keep a child riveted to the screen.

The irony is you could never do a live action Batman that was as great of a pure story and characterization movie as Phantasm. You can't get a hundred million dollar budget for a movie that a bunch of retarded adults raised on action movies will leave the theater mumbling, "Dat was boooooring."

[Powerboy]

I wouldn't be surprised if Goyer and Nolan were told they needed the villain to die. They nailed so many other aspects of his character that to miss that point... its odd. I'm hopeful that in the sequels, Joker and Two-Face are not killed at the end of the films. I think letting someone die isn't as heroic as saving them. Begins is definitely my favorite movie, though.



Phantasm was definitely great.

I have to agree. There was a Silver Age Superman story where Superman set up a Kryptonian criminal to kill himself. That just grated on me and it grated even more to see fans trying to rationalize and justify it by claiming there is a difference. That's a load of ****. Its just a rationalization to make oneself feel better, a justification for the action. Its the same thing.

[nuclearman]

Batman Begins by a long way.... then Batman ... then the mask of Phantasm.

[Captain Jim]

No Batman Beyond: Return of The Joker?

A crime.

Batman Beyond doesn't really fit in the realm of Batman movies, since it's a different lead character. I didn't include the Catwoman movie either. Both are Batman spin-off's, but are not specifically Batman movies, IMO.

[Captain Jim]

I think Batman Begins is the best because it is the most like the comics.

I don't think the makers of any of the other Batman movies ever looked at some Batman comics and/or graphic novels for reference.

From Wikapedia:

Sam Hamm (born 1956) is an American screenwriter, perhaps best known for writing the screenplays for the Tim Burton Batman films. As a result of his work, he was invited to write for the Batman comic. The result was Batman: Blind Justice, which introduced Bruce Wayne's mentor, the character Henri Ducard, who later appeared in Batman Begins.

Amazing irony here. Not only had Hamm "looked at" the comics, he wrote one, and the one he wrote established a character that later appeared in the film that this poster praises.

Btw, Michael Uslan, the executive producer of the 1989 Batman movie, also had a background in Batman comics.

[TheWraith]

Yes, Uslan was a Batman comic writer in the 70s.

[Keehar]

Mask of the Phantasm.

[The Xenos]

If I remember correctly, Phantasm was at the theater only as a Saturday matinee and treated by the theaters as if it was a children's Batman movie just because it was animated. Absurd. Children were bored with it. It was totally beyond their level. The live action Batman movies were more cartoons for children in the sense that they could keep a child riveted to the screen.

The irony is you could never do a live action Batman that was as great of a pure story and characterization movie as Phantasm. You can't get a hundred million dollar budget for a movie that a bunch of retarded adults raised on action movies will leave the theater mumbling, "Dat was boooooring."

Oh yeah! I think remember going around that time to see it back in middle school. I was amazed by it. I was also pissed at how empty the thearter was.

Let's look at the numbers all the movies pulled in:
http://www.boxofficemojo.com/franchises/chart/?id=batman.htm

Check out this miserable release:
http://www.boxofficemojo.com/movies/?page=weekend&id=batmanmaskofthephantasm.htm
http://www.boxofficemojo.com/weekend/chart/?view=&yr=1993&wknd=52&p=.htm

Mrs. Doubtfire in its 5th week Sister Act 2: Back in the Habit in its 3rd week
Wayne's World 2 in its third week and Beethoven's 2nd in its second week all beat out Batman.

Someone messed up and it's not the people who made the film itself.


Also, shame on whoever started this poll and Box Office Mojor for not listing

'Alyas Batman en Robin'
http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/1480/alyasbatmanenrobinnl0.jpg
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alyas_Batman_en_Robin
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wygrQ1rYeAQ

:rolleyes:

[Powerboy]

Oh yeah! I think remember going around that time to see it back in middle school. I was amazed by it. I was also pissed at how empty the thearter was.

Let's look at the numbers all the movies pulled in:
http://www.boxofficemojo.com/franchises/chart/?id=batman.htm

Check out this miserable release:
http://www.boxofficemojo.com/movies/?page=weekend&id=batmanmaskofthephantasm.htm
http://www.boxofficemojo.com/weekend/chart/?view=&yr=1993&wknd=52&p=.htm

Mrs. Doubtfire in its 5th week Sister Act 2: Back in the Habit in its 3rd week
Wayne's World 2 in its third week and Beethoven's 2nd in its second week all beat out Batman.

Someone messed up and it's not the people who made the film itself.


Also, shame on whoever started this poll and Box Office Mojor for not listing

'Alyas Batman en Robin'
http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/1480/alyasbatmanenrobinnl0.jpg
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alyas_Batman_en_Robin
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wygrQ1rYeAQ

:rolleyes:

Looks funny but its a parody of a parody.

[trickster]

Burton's Batman was exactly that: Burton's Batman. Keaton is hardly a hot as the sun playboy, the commissioner was almost ready for the retirement home, the cars looked dated, jack nicholson sucked (OK maybe it's because of the way the role was written, but still, I got no sense of threat whatsoever, they tried to make him look psychotic but they actually made him look corny), idiotic lines ("where does he get all those wonderful toys?" the day I hear a thug speak like that...). Awful.
Batman Begins is the first that got the feeling right.

[kello]

Batman Begins, No Question.

It's actually a good movie, not just a good comic book movie.

[ultramandingo]

batman beyond - return of the joker .hamill kicks nicholsons overacting ass

[Kristofer]

Batman Beyond doesn't really fit in the realm of Batman movies, since it's a different lead character. I didn't include the Catwoman movie either. Both are Batman spin-off's, but are not specifically Batman movies, IMO.

Honestly, I wouldn't call the s*** known as "Catwoman" even near worthy enough to be considered a Batman spin-off...even in the aspect of Schumacher.
I rented it and didn't even make it past the opening credits before it was returned.
I chose Batman: Mask of the Phantasm, tho.
Batman Beyond: Return of the Joker had its good parts..but I didn't like the entire re-drawing of the Joker. Why a buzz-cut ? If Tim Drake had all that hair, why not Joker ? Why the black spandex ? Is that what Tim wears to bed or something (since Joker says Tim thinks its all a dream) ?

[shaxper]

My thoughts (http://www.xanga.com/shaxper/290066179/item.html) on why Mask of the Phantasm is the best Batman film, and why Batman Begins isn't.

[TimT]

To me the best Batman movies I've seen are a few of the fanfilms I've seen on the internet. Like Greyson (yes, it's more about Robin, but totally has a batman flavor) and the Batman: Aliens/Predator fanfilm. Both of those just have a much better batman feel to them.

[cable guy]

Batman (1989)

[ZombieKilla]

I don't undertand anyone who could give an answer other than Batman Begins.

I totally agree

[shaxper]

To me the best Batman movies I've seen are a few of the fanfilms I've seen on the internet. Like Greyson (yes, it's more about Robin, but totally has a batman flavor) and the Batman: Aliens/Predator fanfilm. Both of those just have a much better batman feel to them.

Well one was a trailer and the other was ten minutes long. As a result, they could do cool visuals and fascinating plot points without having to worry about screwing up the execution. If you reduced some of the other Batman films to ten minutes in length, they'd seem a lot cooler too. But, honestly, even for the short time these two fan films ran, they didn't impress me enough. Grayson bored me. Sure, the premise seemed cool (though expected and generic), but the whole thing just got old quick, and I couldn't see Barbara being that unresponsive either. Batman: Aliens/Predator had the hands down best look of any Batman film and one decent Joker too, but the plot was just stupid. I did love the Joker's lines, but they weren't particularly original in the whole Batman/Joker mythos, and the dude was trying too hard to sound like Mark Hammil. Still, I give that particular fan film a lot of respect.

But neither of these can really be compared to a well-crafted full length film.

[The Batman]

My thoughts (http://www.xanga.com/shaxper/290066179/item.html) on why Mask of the Phantasm is the best Batman film, and why Batman Begins isn't.

good points, great post.

[BatKnight89]

You know, I complain about BB, but I'm still happy to have another chance to see Batman on the big screen again.

I just hope the sequel is a bit more exciting and has more of the Batman feel to it, BB was just too plain.

And the Joker had better look like the Joker.

[BatKnight89]

Batman (1989)
Agreed. ;) :D

[recluse357]

Well one was a trailer and the other was ten minutes long. As a result, they could do cool visuals and fascinating plot points without having to worry about screwing up the execution. Batman: Aliens/Predator had the hands down best look of any Batman film and one decent Joker too, but the plot was just stupid. I did love the Joker's lines, but they weren't particularly original in the whole Batman/Joker mythos, and the dude was trying too hard to sound like Mark Hammil. Still, I give that particular fan film a lot of respect. But neither of these can really be compared to a well-crafted full length film.

Too true, but Batman: Dead End was my personal favourite version until Batman Begins showed up. It has the look and feel of the character, moreso that any of the previously mentioned films. Yes it's 10 mins long, but it's worth it. I would sit through that a hundred times before I sit through Jack Nicholson's Joker or Arnold's Mr Freeze again! Don't get me started on Tommy Lee Jones... that wasn't Two-Face!

According to Wikipedia (fine resource that it is): Kevin Smith called Batman: Dead End "possibly the truest, best Batman movie ever made."

Sweet.


r.

[Rupertmetal]

I disagree that not saving someone is the same as killing them.

Also, I think they made Batman not save him because he was Ras Al Ghul (I'm sure that is spelled wrong). Batman can't just throw Ras into Arkham Asylum, so he just never captures him. Ras just "dies" and then shows up later because of the lazarus hot tubs haha.

Well, Powerboy and Captain Jim have told me that the people who made "Batman" were knowledgable of Batman comics. I guess all I can say is, that is sad because that movie didn't seem to have any comic book feel to it.

Michael Keaton didn't fight like he knew any martial arts or anything haha. That is one reason I like Batman Begins so much. Batman Begins shows Batman learning and using martial arts.

[Carter Hall]

IMO, Mask of the Phantasm was phenomenal, and a better Batman origin story than Batman Begins ever hoped to be. I thought it drew from the source material far more faithfully, and I didn't like a lot of the liberties and choices Begins made.

That being said, it almost feels like there should be a separate category for animated movies. As far as the live-action movies go, I'll definitely pick Burton's 1989 Batman over all of the rest. It wasn't perfect, but it was the best thing we've gotten so far (which I know people will disagree with me on). Keep in mind it laid the groundwork for the animated series, and a lot of how Batman's character was written in the 90s.

[ViciousX]

So, this is one of the oldest debates in comic fandom. Which Batman movie is the best? Usually this degenerates into Tim Burton versus Chris Nolan. A great big pissing contest. Eh, it's moot, anyone with a brain can see that Nolan did it better. Much better. "Batman Begins" was terrific, and I have nothing but high hopes for "The Dark Knight".

That being said, IMO, it really is a no-brainer which Batman movie is the best.

It's not "Batman Begins".
It's not "Batman" (1989).

It is "Batman: Mask of the Phantasm". There is no doubt about this in my mind. Batman's origin has never been as well told, what fuels him, what drives him. And how he was tempted to walk away from it at an unexpected chance at happiness. But, as with all things that would truly make us happy, they tend to slip away.

Also, everyone keeps asking who the "best Batman girl" is. Usually this comes down to people arguing over Catwoman and Talia. But, come on... it is Andrea Beaumont. She and Bruce are two sides of the same coin. They compare and contrast. I've heard people say "The Joker is what Batman would be if he let go", and I call bulljive on that. Clearly, the Phantasm is what a corrupt Batman consumed by vengeance would be. "Your angel of death awaits."

The Phantasm truly is everything Batman's detractors in the police, city and media think he is, or fear he could become. Hell, even Alfred has said that she is what he's often feared Bruce would become.

The best Batman villains each speak to his soul in some way. The Joker, Ra's al Ghul, Two-Face, Scarecrow, Catwoman... add the Phantasm to that list.

Speaking of the Joker, this has to have been one of his best outings. And I love that he's the one who figured out who the Phantasm was before anyone else did. Of course he would, he clipped her old man. But, still... it wasn't turned into a big, dramatic revelation. The Joker spells it out, and you figure it out.

All that, plus Bruce Timm, Michael Reaves, Paul Dini, Alan Burnett and everyone else involved just understand Batman better than anyone else.

I loved "Batman Begins", I loved "Return of the Joker", I'm sure I'll love "The Dark Knight". But, honestly... none of them even come close. "Mask of the Phantasm" is the perfect Batman film.

[Joe Night]

I will say that Mask of the Phantasm was a great film, and no doubt that Batman Begins was amazing. They both left Burton in the dust. But I think its hard to compare animated films and live action. The Batman Animated series knocked me away when I first saw it, and it was after that that I truly had hope for a great Batman live action movie. If I had to compare the two though I might say Batman Begins.

And Catwoman, all the way.

[The Zapper]

It is "Batman: Mask of the Phantasm"

I agree with you. The only real flaw that the movie had was giving Joker an origin. Other than that, it's damn near perfect. I love love love that movie.

[ViciousX]

I agree with you. The only real flaw that the movie had was giving Joker an origin. Other than that, it's damn near perfect. I love love love that movie.

It didn't give him an origin, it just revealed some of what he was up to before his chemical bath. We still never found exactly who he was or what his background is.

[The Beast Of Yucca Flats]

Even though they have pretty different styles, Batman '89 & Begins make good peers for each other.

But Mask Of The Phantasm is peerless among the Bat-flicks.

[TomServoFan]

Definitely "Begins" followed by "Mask of the Phantasm", "1989", "1966", "Batman Beyond: Return of the Joker" and "Batman Returns".

[Alan2099]

WHile Begins was more realistic, I feel that it sacrifieced the atmosphere and the dramatic aspects of Batman that the Burton movie captured so well. Also, being more realistic, it wasn't as able to throw in a villian quite as appealing as the over-the-top Joker. Ra's wasn't even his sceneary chewing self. He seemed incredibly subdued. Burton's Batman was over the top, hyper-theatrical, and actually felt more like a comic brought to life. While Begins may have technically been more accurate, it lacked life and energy, even it's fights scenes were shot in a way you didn't realy get to see much of anything.

Begins was also extremely uneven. It took way too long to get to the Batman part of the movie at the beginnning, and sacrified it's own feel when it got to the Tumbler chase.

For all the talk of Batman not killing anybody, he sure seemed perfectly willing to ram every police car that got in his way and wreck just anything he came across. It was about then that the realism stopped and that just contrasted horribly with the feel of the rest of the movie.

Burton's Batman may have killed, but it wasn't anything that stood out for the character. That's just how he was. It fit the feel. Even his more violent actions had a hyper-stylized feel that seemed quite comicbook like, if not exactly the same as what was in the comics.

I suppose you could argue that Begins matched the feel of the comics as wel, as long as you're talking about the more modern comics, where things take too long to happen, take themselves far too seriously, and everybody sits around and talks too much. Personally, I prefer the older more fun more dynamic and faster paced style of storytelling, which I feel Burton's Batman captured quite well.

[TomServoFan]

Do you think "Dark Knight" will be better then "Begins"? Afterall it has every Bat-fan's favorite villain returning to the big screen in that one.

[Alan2099]

Do you think "Dark Knight" will be better then "Begins"? Afterall it has every Bat-fan's favorite villain returning to the big screen in that one.

I don't have high hopes for it. A realistic Joker just isn't Joker and I don't like the new look from what I've seen of it.

[Joe Night]

I think that Dark Knight has a lot of potential to be better than Begins, which is saying quite a bit. I think that a realistic joker is possible and that is one reason he is such a great villain.

[pitbull in a skirt]

I don't want to vote until the latest one comes out :D

[Congo Jack]

I this order - Best to Worst.

Batman Begins by a country mile.
Batman
Batman Returns
Batman: Mask of the Phantasm
Batman: Sub Zero
Batman: The Movie
Batman Forever
Batman & Robin

[Voncaster]

I voted the 1966 Batman. I like the Burton Batman a lot as well. So it was a tough choice. If you asked me again tomorrow I might vote for a Burton Batman instead.

I didn't really care for Batman Begins. It was a gritty realistic take on batman, that just seem to suck the fun out of the character in my mind.

[TROUBLEZ]

I voted for Tim Burtons Batman. In hindsight, the fighting action was minimal and Michael Keaton seems an odd choice for obvious reasons but everything else was good. The costumes, set design and color, the music, the Crime Alley scene...

I agree with everything Alan2099 said.

[drmcnutt]

Mask of the Phantasm - Incredible story and realized so well.
Batman Begins - I always wanted a Batman movie as if Scorcese would film.
Batman Returns - Best of the Burton films
Batman 89 - As a moviegoing experience the hype and that was amazing, but it doesn't hold up.
Batman Beyond:Return of the Joker - Underrated movie, excellent update on the characters.
Batman Forever - Some of this was good, Robin and Alfred's interaction, Carrey was firing on all cylinders, unfortunately Tommy Lee Jones tried it too.

uh...

That's it.

[The Xenos]

I can't decide between Begins and Mask of the Phantasm.

Next would be Burton's with the 1966 campfest not far behind. Both were rather over the top and goofy in their own way. One was light and one was dark. Both oddly worked for Batman in their repsective times.

I didn't car for the characterizations in Returns. It also gave way to the terrible Halle Berry Catwoman film.

Forever and its sequel were just pure crap. I can't belive I tolerated them back in the day. Well, the first one. The second one I was suckered in for. I stopped making excuses and finally started to doubt Warners ability to understand their own characters.

[TROUBLEZ]

Even though Burtons BATMAN got me into Batman comics, Mask of the Phantasm has the best story. That was one damn good animated movie.

[FCEEVIPER]

Hands down, it has to be BB.

[pariah-1972]

Batman Returns because it was full of psychological depth and had great writing and there was a running theme going thru it.
It made me love Penguin which i didn't think was possible.
runner up would be the first Burton Batman.

[pariah-1972]

Batman Returns because it was full of psychological depth and had great writing and there was a running theme going thru it.
It made me love Penguin which i didn't think was possible.
runner up would be the first Burton Batman.

[Rynan]

Batman 66' cause I'm feeling the need for fun and silliness.

[Captain Jim]

testing..................

[TomServoFan]

I now kind of prefer this to "Begins", don't get me wrong but i do enjoy "Begins" but i just love Burton's fictional world of Batman and the comic book feel rather then the too realistic approach that Nolan tried just like Frank Miller as this has a more sense of fun.

I am waiting for "The Dark Knight" however which shall be better then "Begins" cause afterall Joker is in it.

[TheGasp]

I was young 5 or 6 when I saw Batman '89. Nicholson scared me. Mark Hammil's laugh scared me in MOTP. Batman Begins didn't scare me. I like these three. If i had to pick one though it'd be *after a little thinking* Batman Begins.

But here's the deal. I'll probably end up liking The Dark Knight best. When Joker says to Rachel Dawes after she hits him "A little fight in ya--I like that," the dude is holding a stinking KNIFE and licking his lips. What would YOU do if that were the woman you love? Being the wuss that I am I'd pull a McFly on 'em and use my free hand and kill the Biff assaulting my Loraine! (spelling on Loraine?) BOOYA!


"Then you're gonna love me." Props for Bats for being the Dark Knight in shining armor, even. Exit stage right, even. *gasp*

[Gary Joyce]

Mask of the Phantasm - Incredible story and realized so well.
Batman Begins - I always wanted a Batman movie as if Scorcese would film.
Batman Returns - Best of the Burton films
Batman 89 - As a moviegoing experience the hype and that was amazing, but it doesn't hold up.
Batman Beyond:Return of the Joker - Underrated movie, excellent update on the characters.
Batman Forever - Some of this was good, Robin and Alfred's interaction, Carrey was firing on all cylinders, unfortunately Tommy Lee Jones tried it too.

uh...

That's it.

Completely agree