Ultimate Doom

[shadow of a madman]

I've never read Ultimate FF.Well,the first ish.
I heard recently that Ultimate Doom has goatlegs.There's no pics on the net that I can find.
Can anyone here help?I'm curious.

[Yaw]

he doesn't have "goat legs" any more. I guess he had corrective surgery.

[Agent Helix]

In the original, really cool design by Immonen, Doom did have metal goat legs with hooved feet. When Greg Land came on the book, he just traced a bunch of old pictures of Dr. Doom from the 616 universe and used those, so no more goat legs.

[The Foreigner]

Ellis' run on the title is highly under-rated. It's quite decompressed but it reads quite well in hardcover or trade format.

Immonen's goat-legged design gets major flak from most fans, but I think it's kinda cool. This is a commision by Brian Hitch featuring Ultimate Doom, so you can get an idea of the design:

http://www.theartofcomics.com/gallery/doom1.jpg

When Mark Millar returned to the title (Having co-written the first arc with Brian Bendis) with Greg Land, Doom no longer had the goat legs. It was explained by a single dialogue-less panel in which we see one of Doom's servants holding a piece of plated armor that would fit over his legs-- So, as Mark Millar explained on his message board, presumably he still has the goat legs, they are just covered. It's a lame explanation, that makes no sense, yeah; I'm sure a future writer will retcon them away somehow. Oh well. I still enjoyed Millar and Land's run.

[shadow of a madman]

Aside from the wrestling trophy belt,that's a pretty nice design.Thanks for the info!

[JoeK32880]

The goat legs are awesome. I wish they were still around (of course Doom isn't even around anymore either).

I guess you can just chalk it up to an artistic misstep (get it? huh?) on Land's part.

[CaptainMech]

I love when he had them ever one said then hated them
now that there gone everyone wnats them back
I guess you dont know what u got to it is gone

[desanth]

I don't like em much, no one else got funky legs... why should Doom?

[phantom1592]

I Never liked the goat legs. Thought they were stupid and ruined a cool character. I had been waiting for Ultimate Doom for a long time

However I did hear the explanation behind them and I do see where the writer was coming from with them. The concept was that Doom was always obsessed with his appearance and got disfigured. However in this modern world there is no reason not to just get Plastic surgery or something and go back to living your life.

They wanted to give him a disfigurement that wasn't easily concealable. I think they could have done better than "Goat Legs"

[ToxicTeen]

I just didn't like the goat legs....

[Magneto Rocks]

I really do hate Goat-Legs Doom, the one giant dark spot in an otherwise good run. Millar basically retconned most of Ultimate Doom but considering how badly ruined the character had been, I don't see how he had a choice.

[sgt.candy]

he should be the biggest (non cosmic) villian in ultimate marvel. not magneto

[Wild Card13]

Actually, I like how Magneto has become the biggest villain in the Ultimate Universe. We all ready have one universe that lives completely in crippling fear under the shadow of Dr. Doom. Is there really any need for two?

[Arilou]

True. Doom works for a "Comic book" universe. With diabolical plots and sorcery and magic and over-the-topness.

He doesen't work as well in the UM I think, even disregarding his less-than-stellar ultimatization. He's too much of a supervillain to work well.

[gorthon616]

Ellis' run on the title is highly under-rated. It's quite decompressed but it reads quite well in hardcover or trade format.

I hated Goat-Legs and the show down with the FF was very very disappointing. Vagrant Doom with the missile launcher and grab-bag of powers, made him feel like generic serial villain rather than Dr. Doom.

Other than that though, Ellis's run was awesome. He had a really good touch with the character's personality and making the book fun. Doom was just horrid though.

To that point, Millar's finish with Doom wasn't very satisfying either. The "omg I miscalculated everything, oh wells you win reed" ending was sort of blah. Sad since the build was excellent. I loved when zombie reed freaks the guards out about the pen.

[Magneto Rocks]

I do agree actually that Ultimate Magneto is a fantastic ultra-arch-villain for the Ultimate Universe. They have to bring him back, preferably with a writer which knows how to use him. Is it any coincidence he was last good under Millar?

See, it's funny, Magneto DESERVES to be. he's like 616 Magneto but with no moral restaint, no respect for humanity- he's genocidal in the extreme and a butcher. Take the same powers as 616 Magneto and apply that personality and he's fifty times the threat.

Ultimate Magneto gathered a Brotherhood of hundreds and planned the extermination of 99.99% of the planet.

Ultimate Doom on the other hand, gathered a commune in Denmark and has acid vomit.

[Jack]

he should be the biggest (non cosmic) villian in ultimate marvel. not magneto
Doom works as such a huge threat in 616 because of the status of the Fantastic Four. Naturally the scaled down Fantastic Four for the Ultimate Universe needs a scaled down Doom, or the dynamic wouldn't work. And what's the point of Doom if he's not with the Fantastic Four?

I dig Ultimate Doom's original design. New twists on old characters is what Ultimate Marvel should be about, not just younger versions of the same old characters.

[Willowhugger]

And what's the point of Doom if he's not with the Fantastic Four?

Well then simply do the opposite with Magneto. What's the point of Magneto is he's not the threat of the X-men? Yet, he works well as a villain for everyone really.

For me, I think they started doing good by having Doom take over Latveria and make it a paradise. Still, its difficult to forget that Doctor Doom is still a kid. He's Reed Richards age and I don't care how smart he is...its difficult to imagine he's THAT good.

[Ogrebear]

Frankly I thought the goat legs where different and starling but a mistake, there where other ways to 'disfigure' Doom without that.

According to Wiki's entry on Doomhere (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doctor_Doom)
"According to Mark Millar, he wished to keep Doom's goat legs and editorial did not. In the end, they compromised - Doom still has the cloven feet, but they are covered by armored normal boots."

I really, really, dislike bringing Latveria into the UM. If Van Damme had to take over a country give him a break away Transylvania or even Romania- making up a country when the Ultimate Universe had been (mostly) realistic about using only real world places sucked.

[Willowhugger]

I really, really, dislike bringing Latveria into the UM. If Van Damme had to take over a country give him a break away Transylvania or even Romania- making up a country when the Ultimate Universe had been (mostly) realistic about using only real world places sucked.

I assume Latveria is a breakaway country of some kind.

[Jack]

Well then simply do the opposite with Magneto. What's the point of Magneto is he's not the threat of the X-men? Yet, he works well as a villain for everyone really.

For me, I think they started doing good by having Doom take over Latveria and make it a paradise. Still, its difficult to forget that Doctor Doom is still a kid. He's Reed Richards age and I don't care how smart he is...its difficult to imagine he's THAT good.
Except Magneto works better outside the confines of the X-Men than Doom does without the FF. Especially when you consider that Doom doesn't have children on the Ultimates.

Without the FF, Doom is just another mad scientist. Magneto, however, has a global agenda that can be relevant on many more levels.

[Willowhugger]

Without the FF, Doom is just another mad scientist. Magneto, however, has a global agenda that can be relevant on many more levels.

I dunno, Doctor Doom actually has always worked tremendously well against anyone when written well. My favorite Doom stories are non-FF.

1. Doom 2099: Doctor Doom decides to take on the corrupt businesses of the world and reform the planet's governments.

2. Doctor Strange: Doctor Strange is seriously unnerved by Doctor Doom as his immediate rival for Sorceror Supreme but agrees to help him against Mesphito.

3. Planet Doom: This is an Avengers story rather than an FF story.

4. Spiderman: The Black Fox steals some jewels and Spiderman desperately tries to keep the guy alive while Doom kicks his ass without even really acknowleging Peter.

Honestly, you just need to give Doctor Doom a reason to threaten the whole world and a personal connection with the enemy.

[Pyro]

...there where other ways to 'disfigure' Doom without that.Yeah, I'm not sure I buy the disfigurement angle. Doom never seemed to care about how his legs turned out. He whined more over the thin scar Reed gave his face with his own spike.

In any case, I think Ultimate Doom was awful. A total waste of potential. And I never liked the goat legs. Ellis and Immonen should have saved that idea for Nextwave. At least there it might have been funny. I gotta say, it was the only thing from their run that I really, really disliked.

[Trick-sta]

I thought ultimate Doom was done brilliantly, I do like the 616 version better but Ultimate Doom is one of the best characters in the universe. As for the goat legs I thought it was a crap idea at first but I reckon the character pulled them off. I really liked the Miller - Land run of the comic which made Doom more badass and the armour over the goat legs was a good idea since he does look better now but theres still the option for writers to use the legs later in the future

[JoeK32880]

Yeah, I'm a goat leg fan, but the leg armor is a reasonable solution in that it doesn't contradict anything.

Interesting choice for a debut post.

[The Foreigner]

I do agree actually that Ultimate Magneto is a fantastic ultra-arch-villain for the Ultimate Universe. They have to bring him back, preferably with a writer which knows how to use him. Is it any coincidence he was last good under Millar?

I honestly felt Magneto was only good under Vaughan.

Magentic North was a little slice of superhero brilliance with the coolest, most diabolical, most unsettingly clever Magneto I've read in years, either 616 or Ultimate. I enjoyed Millar's first arc, but he could have been any insane super-villain and it wouldn't have changed a thing. I found his version of Magneto terribly boring, and the rest of his run terribly uninteresting (Although that's a can of worms for another thread).

Now, Millar's Doom on the other hand-- Ellis started him out as a crazed, acid-spewing super-villain, and Millar took him and crafted him into the brilliant, cocky tyrant we know and love, so it's sort of the opposite situation. I'm still one of the few who really loved Ellis' run, but I also dug the changes Millar made.

[Toboe]

I do agree actually that Ultimate Magneto is a fantastic ultra-arch-villain for the Ultimate Universe. They have to bring him back, preferably with a writer which knows how to use him. Is it any coincidence he was last good under Millar?


Actually, I quite enjoyed what Brian K. Vaughan did with Magneto, giving him a personality and all, and not just having him screaming how humans are useless worms or something and how he deserves to take over the world and kill them all. I mean, under Millar he was a one-dimensional villian, just plain evil and with simple-minded world domination plans. Vaughan gave him a voice, a charismatic personality and a believable ideology, making one wonder if he may have a point after all, and in the end showing how prison has changed him and realizes that trying to take over the world just because is plain stupid and that he needs a better plan.
Still, he works perfectly as the common enemy for everyone in the Ultimate Universe, unlike Doom, who is better off as Fantastic Four exclusive here.
I really like the way Ellis introduced him, it made sense within the context of the UFF story and Immonen's design was neat. However, the acid vomit and stuff was kinda lame...
I didn't really appreciate that Millar just threw most of it away and turned him into a carbon copy of 616 Doom, given the fact that Ellis' Doom had so much potential to create new stories with this different approach to Doom.
Even though Millar's run was quite enjoyable, his arc with Doom seemed to lack a clear direction and purpose.