Justice League of America #7 (Spoiler)

[Ring Slinger]

So as of Justice League #7, Roy Harper is officially calling himself "Red Arrow"-- thoughts? Reactions? Does it matter?

[EZMOHR]

I liked it. It actually kind of felt heart-warming.

But the best reveal in JLA didn't happen until the last prolouge page.

[MAK15]

was Justice League 7 worth the 3.50?

[kal_el21]

was Justice League 7 worth the 3.50?

Was it worth it? For Ed Benes' amazing art I'd say yes, but there was nothing special about this issue. I believe it was normal size and other than the 'mural' cover there were no real gimmicks. Don't understand why DC put this one out for $3.50.

[Gottaluvit]

Best issue so far and well worth the cover price. I must admit to having been very anti-Red Arrow, I like the name Arsenal, but after this issue I've actually warmed to the idea.

I thought Brad handled it very well, I liked the reasons the coe name change occured, an liked the acknowledgement in Roy's inner dialogue of the importance of the role Dinah has played in his life. It's obvious he hasn't forgotten the mistaked Ollie made but he's forgiven and is happily moving on.

[Sean Whitmore]

Love Red Arrow. I always get a kick out of DC legacy characters, and I liked the line, "Family business, family name."

Having said that, I thought Canary and Lantern bursting out in great, sobbing tears was a little stupid for what was essentially a costume and name change. As was Ollie hiding in the background, Batman style.


SEAN

[skally19]

this was definitely my fav issue of jla so far. it was great stuff i thought. well worth 3.50. and the red arrow thing was done really well. it seemed natural

[cyclops2500]

Yah, I thought that whole scene was really touching. RA's reaction to being invited to the league was also touching in its own way. It makes me like Roy more than I ever did when he was with the Outsiders.

The issue as a whole was terrific. The end suprise caught me. Which one is it?

[Hawkman]

Well, my hand's been forced. I'm going to have to make it a point to go to my LCS tomorrow at some point for this issue alone. I'm hearing so much positive buzz about it I'm getting very antsy to read it now.

Anyway, as for the name change, I'm going to have to see Roy's reasoning behind it before giving my opinion. My initial reaction, though, is that I prefer Arsenal, as Roy's forte in combat isn't restricted solely to the bow. Ergo, I feel that name fits him better.

It doesn't really matter to me in the end, however, as I'm not exactly a huge fan of the character anyway. As long as Meltzer provides a half-decent explanation for the obvious homage, I'll be fine with it.

[Gottaluvit]

Well, my hand's been forced. I'm going to have to make it a point to go to my LCS tomorrow at some point for this issue alone. I'm hearing so much positive buzz about it I'm getting very antsy to read it now.

Anyway, as for the name change, I'm going to have to see Roy's reasoning behind it before giving my opinion. My initial reaction, though, is that I prefer Arsenal, as Roy's forte in combat isn't restricted solely to the bow. Ergo, I feel that name fits him better.

It doesn't really matter to me in the end, however, as I'm not exactly a huge fan of the character anyway. As long as Meltzer provides a half-decent explanation for the obvious homage, I'll be fine with it.


I don't think Roy will be totally restricted to the bow as Red Arrow either, Hal says something to this effect to Ollie. "With his marksmanship and his other weapons, he'll be surpassing you soon." So to me thats sounding like Roy will still be Arsenal, just not in name.

The reasons were spot on, I haven't read and issue of any comic with Roy in it that I have been this happy and excited about since the Arsenal mini series years ago, and even then the Arsenal mini didn't have the character moments that made me grin the way this did.

[cyclops2500]

Well, my hand's been forced. I'm going to have to make it a point to go to my LCS tomorrow at some point for this issue alone. I'm hearing so much positive buzz about it I'm getting very antsy to read it now.

Anyway, as for the name change, I'm going to have to see Roy's reasoning behind it before giving my opinion. My initial reaction, though, is that I prefer Arsenal, as Roy's forte in combat isn't restricted solely to the bow. Ergo, I feel that name fits him better.


The name change is an homage to Ollie, "family business, family name." The simplicity is part of what makes it touching. (there's that word again.)

[Karl O'Neill]

This comic was so much fun,

The Kitchen-great idea!

nice moment for roy harper fans too.

Geo-force is cool,

and that bit with trident at the end was great

[CMBMOOL]

The name change is an homage to Ollie, "family business, family name." The simplicity is part of what makes it touching. (there's that word again.)

Agreed and the double headquarters to the JLA on Earth and in space is almost like a reminder to the last season of JLU. :D

[LordAllMighty]

The following are some highlight from Justice League of America #7 as the issue is more of a tour and getting to know you type of issue. This may make it sound like a boring issue, but I actually thought that is was one of the better issues and an enjoyable read.

-The team member in alphabetical order are Batman, Black Canary, Black Lightning, Green Lantern (Hal), Hawkgirl, Red Arrow, Red Tornado, Superman, Vixen and Wonder Woman.
-Black Canary is the Chairperson for the League.
-The new headquarters looks like the Hall of Justice from the Super Friends TV Series.
-The new headquarters has a trophy room with artifacts from previous JLA adventures. The weapons displayed have all been made non-functioning by Batman. Oh look, there is Skeets on display.
-The new training room call “the Kitchen” is on a satellite that looks like the satellite from Justice League Unlimited.
“If you can’t stand the heat…” Wonder Woman
-Roy has officially taken the name of Red Arrow.
-Roy and Hawkgirl do some flirting.
-Geoforce is gaining Terra’s powers and he does not know why.
-Trident is identified as being from the 31st Century. He seem to be Karate Kit from the Legion of Superheroes

The book also includes a nice tri-fold picture of the League in front of pictures from previous Leagues.

Thanks MazingMan

I give it a nice 8/10 :)

[CMBMOOL]

The following are some highlight from Justice League of America #7 as the issue is more of a tour and getting to know you type of issue. This may make it sound like a boring issue, but I actually thought that is was one of the better issues and an enjoyable read.
-The team member in alphabetical order are Batman, Black Canary, Black Lightning, Green Lantern (Hal), Hawkgirl, Red Arrow, Red Tornado, Superman, Vixen and Wonder Woman.
-Black Canary is the Chairperson for the League.
-The new headquarters looks like the Hall of Justice from the Super Friends TV Series.
-The new headquarters has a trophy room with artifacts from previous JLA adventures. The weapons displayed have all been made non-functioning by Batman. Oh look, there is Skeets on display.
-The new training room call “the Kitchen” is on a satellite that looks like the satellite from Justice League Unlimited.
“If you can’t stand the heat…”
-Wonder Woman
-Roy has officially taken the name of Red Arrow.
-Roy and Hawkgirl do some flirting.
-Geoforce is gaining Terra’s powers and he does not know why.
-Trident is identified as being from the 31st Century.

The book also includes a nice tri-fold picture of the League in front of pictures from previous Leagues.

Thanks MazingMan

I give it a nice 8/10 :)


Nice, can't wait for this series to come to TPB!! :D

[drwho]

I'm hoping the Jsa crossover proves itself to me so that I would want to buy this monthly again. The trophy room is old stuff. They have had it in previous series.

[Cayman]

It was better than the last few.

I liked seeing Geo-Force a lot and the Red Arrow/Hawkgirl attraction is appealing. The new HQ is clever, both retro and futuristic.

I was pleased that this issue largely avoided the heavy-handed, clumy narration of the previous issues. Unfortunately the art is still not very dynamic, the characters look really static. I'm always reminded of one of those RPG videogames where the characters stand around waiting their turn until it is time to attack.

Still, an improvement over what's gone before. I would say 7/10.

[Cayman]

I'm hoping the Jsa crossover proves itself to me so that I would want to buy this monthly again. The trophy room is old stuff. They have had it in previous series.

How can so many trophies have survived the destruction of two consecutive headquarters? :confused:

[Karl O'Neill]

How can so many trophies have survived the destruction of two consecutive headquarters? :confused:

well skeets only gets beaten at the end of 52, so they accounts for him.

I think animal man will beat skeets.

Amazo just got there.

Great issue, im loving this book more and more each month, Bring on the crossover.

The kitchen is great name for a training room.

[lightning]

I liked it quite a bit. I think #1-7 read quite well if you go through them all in one sitting. I agree that sometimes the art is a bit static, but sometimes it works (i.e. the picture of the new JLA). Some random thoughts:

-I found it funny that everyone said yes after the whole "just because we ask you to join doesn't mean you have to say yes" thing at the beginning.

-Red Arrow & Hawkgirl flirting was amusing.

-Black Canary being chairperson is awesome.

-I liked Black Lightning's tour of the new JLA headquarters. The lines about how long before villians try and steal all the stuff in the museum and how Batman should have let them have the giant penny were great. The "dangerous room" line was groan-worthy, but I got a chuckle out of it.

-I thought it was funny that after all the careful planning and voting by Superman, Batman, and Wonder Woman (complete with pictures!), Green Latern, Black Canary and Black Lightning went ahead and reformed the JLA without them.

One question - is the dead guy (Trident?) at the end supposed to be from the same Legion of Superheroes as the current JSA Starman and the Dreamgirl(?) in JSA #4?

[Sean Walsh]

One question - is the dead guy (Trident?) at the end supposed to be from the same Legion of Superheroes as the current JSA Starman and the Dreamgirl(?) in JSA #4?

Considering there's a multi-issue crossover with JLA and JSA (and the LSH) starting next month, I'd say yes. ;)

[lightning]

Agreed and the double headquarters to the JLA on Earth and in space is almost like a reminder to the last season of JLU. :D

I'm thinking it's something of a nod to the idea. The general "look" of the hall and the space station remind me of the JLU ones as well.

The whole Red Arrow thing made sense to me. It's a bit cheesy, but DC has always been big on legacies and "families" of heroes, so it fits. Hal mentions he's still using all his other gear, so he's basically the same guy as he was before, just with a new costume and name. I liked how Roy didn't go with the hat since he thought it looked dorky, but then Hawkgirl (rightly) pointed out that "the shoelaces up the front" aren't any less dorky.

[skally19]

it's karate kid if you look closely enough at the end.

[Karl O'Neill]

One question - is the dead guy (Trident?) at the end supposed to be from the same Legion of Superheroes as the current JSA Starman and the Dreamgirl(?) in JSA #4?[/QUOTE]

no he is not dead, just unconcious, yeah he's related, hence the crossover next arc........
the lightning saga-3JLA issues and 2JSA issues.

[Slumber Hulk]

I loved this 7-arc, great stuff. I've never felt for Red Tornado so much (why did he get rid of all those nice Amazo parts?)

RED ARROW! I love it. In the ads for the upcoming countdown that shows Nightwing behind an old Robin outfit and it looks like he's hanging up his Nightwing clothes... eluding to the creation of Red Robin. The Kingdom is coming.

In the end all the pictures and "big three" voting was for naught and they took the New Avengers line "fate pulled us together"... but I guess that's a line from the JSA... or is their's a line from Original Avengers... either way it still works for me.

"There is nothing new under the sun." - That line is from Solomon. (Solomon from the Bible not Solomon Grundy.)

[Slumber Hulk]

Yes, the Kingdom is coming soon. We've seen lots of little jabs towards Nightwing becoming Red Robin.

[Cayman]

Oh, I should add I like Dinah being the leader.

[Deadpooligan]

Oh, I should add I like Dinah being the leader.

I don't understand why she would be. Batman, Superman, and Green Lantern seem to be the most capable leaders, the latter two being the most powerful members of the League.

I don't know why they wouldn't take the JSA route and put the most powerful member at the helm (Power Girl)... maybe they just want the blonds to lead...

But alas, I haven't read the issue yet... I'm sure there's some explanation behind this...

[Willminus2]

This book is by far my favorite book going right now. I love the writing and the direction of the stories. I also love the art! I think it is clean and crisp and easy to look at.

I give this book a 10/10!

[Slumber Hulk]

Yeah, there is a girl power thing going on in the JSA & JLA.

[Shellhead]

Was it worth it? For Ed Benes' amazing art I'd say yes, but there was nothing special about this issue. I believe it was normal size and other than the 'mural' cover there were no real gimmicks. Don't understand why DC put this one out for $3.50.

Welcome to the next round of price increases for comics. DC and Marvel will both start sneaking in comics that cost $3.50 per issue, but it will only be their best-selling titles at this time. New Avengers will probably start selling for $3.50 soon. Once they have readers accustomed to at least seeing some comics selling for $3.50, they will eventually assign that price to all their comics.

I first started buying comics when the cover price was just $0.20 per issue, so I've seen a lot of price hikes over the years. The modern approach is to initially raise the price only on comics that are very popular, then phase that new price in for all the other comics later. In the old days, DC and Marvel would just slam readers with a new price all at once.

At one point, around 1970, Marvel tried to increase the page count by a few pages and then hike the price up from $0.15 to $0.25, but readers responded badly. Marvel quickly pushed the price back down to $0.20, but reduced the page count back, too. Years later, Marvel preceded a nickel price increase with a marketing gimmick for many months, with a cover logo that included a colorful sunburst over the price that said "Still only $0.35!"

[Cayman]

I don't understand why she would be. Batman, Superman, and Green Lantern seem to be the most capable leaders, the latter two being the most powerful members of the League.

I don't know why they wouldn't take the JSA route and put the most powerful member at the helm (Power Girl)... maybe they just want the blonds to lead...

But alas, I haven't read the issue yet... I'm sure there's some explanation behind this...

She looks best in fishnets, followed closely by Hal.

[Sean Whitmore]

An okay issue, but I'll be glad now that this ridiculous voting circle-jerk is over.

Lightning: "Gee, you wanna be in the League, Batman? I'm asking you because if Hal did you'd say no, because you are apparently a 2-year-old girl."

Superman: "I don't know if I'm comfortable with a team forming without my express permission. I mean, I had pictures and everything. Sulk."


SEAN

[Dr. Killbydeath]

I don't understand why she would be. Batman, Superman, and Green Lantern seem to be the most capable leaders, the latter two being the most powerful members of the League.

I don't know why they wouldn't take the JSA route and put the most powerful member at the helm (Power Girl)... maybe they just want the blonds to lead...

But alas, I haven't read the issue yet... I'm sure there's some explanation behind this...

Superman, Batman and Wonder Woman are far too busy to run the League, even if they wanted to. I can't see Batman or Superman wanting to be the "leader". Wonder Woman might, but her public image is crap, so I doubt it would go over well, especially considering the new more public face of the league.

Hal is also busy, but he is also trying to step down a bit. Ollie and Hal screwed up Dinah's career over the years and she really hasn't been able to lead like she can (as seen in BoP). I mean since they took her out of the founders of the original league she needs something.

Also, she's the only one who can tell Batman off without violence (see: Guy Gardner and Hal). She's a great strategist and she has ties to all sorts of other teams (Checkmate [through Terrific], BoP, JSofA).

Also, Power Girl wasn't elected leader because of her power, but because of her growth in the eyes of Flash, Green Lantern, Sand and Mr Terrific.

[Sean Walsh]

Having said that, I thought Canary and Lantern bursting out in great, sobbing tears was a little stupid for what was essentially a costume and name change. As was Ollie hiding in the background, Batman style.

This wasn't just a name and costume change -- it was a graduation from being a teen sidekick/renegade to a big-time hero. And for BC and GL to be crying (in their own ways) - considering how long they've known Roy and where they've seen his life go all this time - I thought it was totally appropriate for them to be THAT proud of him.

Plus, considering Meltzer's past with and love for the Green Arrow universe, it makes sense that the graduation gets this kind of treatment.

Plus the payoff was him flirting with Hawkgirl, which was just so totally awesome. :D

[Jmacq1]

Have they officially explained at all whether or not Black Canary is still a founding JLA member? I know they re-inserted Wonder Woman into the founding of the League, but did they take away Dinah to do it?

If the didn't then Dinah as chairperson makes perfect sense, as she'd be equal in seniority and experience to the "big 3" anyway.

However the dialogue in the issue leads me to believe that Dinah isn't a founder anymore. Specifically when they say something to the effect of, "Hal has just as much right to the League as anyone else." Leads me to believe that Hal's the only "initial founding member" on this particular incarnation besides the "trinity."

EDIT: Nevermind, my question was answered above. She's not a founder anymore.

I'm totally torn on the Red Arrow/Hawkgirl "thing" though. I like both characters and think the flirtation is a fun "twist" on the Arrow/Hawk relationship. But I'm a big fan of Hawkman too, and wouldn't want to see his relationship with Hawkgirl sundered completely.

[Dr. Killbydeath]

An okay issue, but I'll be glad now that this ridiculous voting circle-jerk is over.

Lightning: "Gee, you wanna be in the League, Batman? I'm asking you because if Hal did you'd say no, because you are apparently a 2-year-old girl."

Superman: "I don't know if I'm comfortable with a team forming without my express permission. I mean, I had pictures and everything. Sulk."


SEAN

Isn't he though?

Also, the hypothetical league that the Three had picked would have sucked. Terrific would have said no. Supergirl would have said no. Power Girl would be forced to say no. Cyborg would say no out of commitment to the Titans. Hawkman, Atom, Nightwing and Flash would have said yes, but then what do you have? The most unbalanced team ever with two rookies. Also, Firehawk isn't ready, Marvel is messed up right now and Aquaman is Aquaman. Green Arrow would join, but then on seeing the team would leave.

[Sean Whitmore]

This wasn't just a name and costume change -- it was a graduation from being a teen sidekick/renegade to a big-time hero. And for BC and GL to be crying (in their own ways) - considering how long they've known Roy and where they've seen his life go all this time - I thought it was totally appropriate for them to be THAT proud of him.

It seemed too dismissive of the rest of Roy's post-Speedy career. Like there was nothing to be proud of when he was with Checkmate or led the Titans.

I mean, I get that Dinah and Hal would be proud. Even that Dinah would cry, since she cries at the drop of a hat over in Birds of Prey. I just thought the scene as a hole was layed on a mite thick.


SEAN

[Hawkman]

I'm totally torn on the Red Arrow/Hawkgirl "thing" though. I like both characters and think the flirtation is a fun "twist" on the Arrow/Hawk relationship. But I'm a big fan of Hawkman too, and wouldn't want to see his relationship with Hawkgirl sundered completely.
Agreed, but I wouldn't worry too much. I can't see them splitting up the Hawks in any long-term capacity. Historically, they've been a team through and through, both in and out of costume, so I expect this to serve only as a tempory love-triangle storyline. With the JSA crossover coming up, I'm thinking this will be fleshed out and touched upon greatly (espeically with #9's cover).

My guess is we'll see Roy and Kendra have a fling, but ultimately it will fall through and she'll wind up back in the arms of Carter. There's nothing even remotely close to insinuating that she's over him, after all; quite the opposite as a matter of act. And we already know how he feels about her.

It could serve as a nice distraction if nothing else, though, so long as it's handled well. Looking at it that way, I don't really have a problem with it at this point.

[zhivago]

I really loved the issue. Meltzer has done his homework in character histories (I bet his has read all Green Lantern/Green Arrow issues).
To me the most touching scene was the one wit Canary and Hal handing Roy his uniform.
Plus I want to see Carter Hall's reaction to this new Roy/Kendra relationship :cool:

[IamtheRock3]

like the comment about the training room

Sounds like a "DANGEROUS ROOM"


Basicly admiting they ripping off a Danger Room and giving a nod

[Sean Walsh]

I really loved the issue. Meltzer has done his homework in character histories (I bet his has read all Green Lantern/Green Arrow issues).
To me the most touching scene was the one wit Canary and Hal handing Roy his uniform.
Plus I want to see Carter Hall's reaction to this new Roy/Kendra relationship :cool:

I'm PRAYING as of right now that if we see them Roy & Kendra kiss, Ollie and Carter are watching - Carter looking all stoic and angry and a grinning Ollie giving Carter a big ol' thumbs up.

[IamtheRock3]

Isn't he though?

Also, the hypothetical league that the Three had picked would have sucked. Terrific would have said no. Supergirl would have said no. Power Girl would be forced to say no. Cyborg would say no out of commitment to the Titans. Hawkman, Atom, Nightwing and Flash would have said yes, but then what do you have? The most unbalanced team ever with two rookies. Also, Firehawk isn't ready, Marvel is messed up right now and Aquaman is Aquaman. Green Arrow would join, but then on seeing the team would leave.


meh most of what the 3 picked already on the league


Did like Bats comment about the ones that pick is the ones that happen to show up at the fight

And then Lighting comment basicly saying "Isnt that how it always happens"

nice to know meltzer not taking everything so seriously, while adding real danger and drama

[Dr. Killbydeath]

I'm PRAYING as of right now that if we see them Roy & Kendra kiss, Ollie and Carter are watching - Carter looking all stoic and angry and a grinning Ollie giving Carter a big ol' thumbs up.

Hopefully it will happen like that, but with more name calling and empty threats...

[Denny Colt]

Welcome to the next round of price increases for comics. DC and Marvel will both start sneaking in comics that cost $3.50 per issue, but it will only be their best-selling titles at this time. New Avengers will probably start selling for $3.50 soon. Once they have readers accustomed to at least seeing some comics selling for $3.50, they will eventually assign that price to all their comics.

I first started buying comics when the cover price was just $0.20 per issue, so I've seen a lot of price hikes over the years. The modern approach is to initially raise the price only on comics that are very popular, then phase that new price in for all the other comics later. In the old days, DC and Marvel would just slam readers with a new price all at once.

At one point, around 1970, Marvel tried to increase the page count by a few pages and then hike the price up from $0.15 to $0.25, but readers responded badly. Marvel quickly pushed the price back down to $0.20, but reduced the page count back, too. Years later, Marvel preceded a nickel price increase with a marketing gimmick for many months, with a cover logo that included a colorful sunburst over the price that said "Still only $0.35!"

I started when comics were 35 cents. I remember when Batman 300 came out and it was 75 cents. I used to get 25 cents/week for my allowance and had to beg my mom for an advance and got a big lecture about how 75 cents was a lot of money, etc. etc. (I got the 75 cents and loved the issue, featuring an possible future in which Batman retires and Dick has graduated to the Earth 2 Robin's costume).

I suppose all the younger fans will be shocked by the above, but it always use to really hurt when the price went up (like from 35 cents to 40 cents - ouch). Ah well. I suppose the rationale for the $3.50 price tag (I'll spare you what I had to pay in Canadian dollars) was the fold-out.

[PastePotPete]

I used to defend Meltzer like crazy, up until issue 3 or 4 of this series. But I'm done defending the guy. I thought this issue, although not without a couple fun moments, was a let-down.

A series like Justice League needs a good balance of character development and plot. Meltzer puts all his eggs into the character development basket and the plot suffers.

You have to earn an issue like this -- an issue that is exclusively character development, checking in on the team, seeing them reacting to one another, a 'calm' issue where no action actually occurs.

Great writers are good at plopping an issue like this into a team book after the team has thwarted some huge menace or been through a harrowing crisis and come out the other side.
The Tornado's Path was niether huge nor harrowing. Meltzer didn't earn this issue.

So the whole thing seemed kind of self-congratulatory. For the writer and for the League members.

Hey, I still love the lineup. And I'm loving JSA. I'll read the next three issues.

[jade_nova]

She looks best in fishnets, followed closely by Hal.

When has Hal worn fishnets? :)

[kalorama]

A series like Justice League needs a good balance of character development and plot. Meltzer puts all his eggs into the character development basket and the plot suffers.

In a nutshell.

And for all those pinning their hopes on this issue tying together the loose ends and spackling over the gaping holes in the previous six issues "plot" ... my sympathies.

The whole Red Arrow thing bothered me more than any of the other stuff that bothered me. There was an Arsenal mini-series a few years ago (by Devin Grayson and Rick mays) that dealt directly with the idea of Roy carrying on Ollie's legacy. It even had him wearing a red version of Ollie's costume. And, if I recall correctly, Connor even offered to give him back the Green Arrow name (Ollie was still "dead" then). It ended up with Roy rejecting the idea of taking up Ollie's mantle because it wouldn't be true to who he was or to the sense of individuality that Ollie himself instilled in him. So if he didn't want to "honor" Ollie's legacy like that when he was "dead" it seems especially odd that he'd do it now that he's alive.

[Gottaluvit]

It seemed too dismissive of the rest of Roy's post-Speedy career. Like there was nothing to be proud of when he was with Checkmate or led the Titans.

I mean, I get that Dinah and Hal would be proud. Even that Dinah would cry, since she cries at the drop of a hat over in Birds of Prey. I just thought the scene as a hole was layed on a mite thick.


SEAN

It was even more then just that they were 'proud' IMO. I did think Hal crying was a little over the top, but considering he had obviously already had a discussion with Ollie prior to this and the significance of the costume being from Ollie not only meaning that Roy had graduated, but that Ollie was stepping up and saying in effect "this is one of my sons and I'm proud of him".
That means a great deal more.

All his life Roy has wanted to be accepted by Ollie, he's always sought approval, and when he became Arsenal it was at a time in his life when his relationship with Ollie was at it's lowest, and Roy had no idea if he meant anything at all to Ollie, because quite frankly Ollie was a deadbeat mentor and fater figure to him--which Ollie himself admits--Roy became Arsenal not only to find his own way, but in part because he was hurt and bitter and wanted to break away from identifying with Green Arrow. The Titans Now an Then arc showed clearly that Roy wasn't happy with that desicion and that he felt guilty about "letting Ollie down."

So the significance of both Ollie giving Roy the costume and Roy accepting it and taking on the name is much greater then merely graduating. Dinah has always know how much Roy needed to feel a sense of family and belonging, that he needed to feel Ollie respected him, she's always wanted the rift to be healed, and it appears that it finally has, she loves him like a kid brother or a son, so the crying wasn't over the top IMO. And maybe Hal tearing up a little wasn't either, considering he had spoked to Ollie prior so he fully knew the significance behind the costume.

[Paul Newell]

How can so many trophies have survived the destruction of two consecutive headquarters? :confused:
I remember some explanation somewhere...Something like the trophies get automatically shifted into a tesseract, I think, whenever the HQ is in danger.

[ultramandingo]

so they got the superfreinds hq and metzers in to 70s era b and c listers , so how long before we hear "wonder twin powers activate!!" im mean , hes allready got black vulcan and that red samurai rip off guy on the team

[fierceandfunky]

RED ARROW! I love it. In the ads for the upcoming countdown that shows Nightwing behind an old Robin outfit and it looks like he's hanging up his Nightwing clothes... eluding to the creation of Red Robin. The Kingdom is coming.

didn't dan didio say that it will be jason todd in the red robin costume?

[Sean Whitmore]

In the ads for the upcoming countdown that shows Nightwing behind an old Robin outfit and it looks like he's hanging up his Nightwing clothes... eluding to the creation of Red Robin.

...what?

That's Jason Todd in the ad. Holding the Red Hood's hood in one hand, the Nightwing costume (which he wore OYL) in the other, and staring at his own former Robin costume.


SEAN

[Gottaluvit]

didn't dan didio say that it will be jason todd in the red robin costume?


yeah he did, and then he said he made a mistake and was confused by the question and that it was Dick Grayson, so either he was confused, or he's trying to confuse us.:evilsmile

[TheWraith]

Brad Meltzer's writing on this is very poor. He's better suited to his prose work.

[Cayman]

I remember some explanation somewhere...Something like the trophies get automatically shifted into a tesseract, I think, whenever the HQ is in danger.

Ah cool, maybe Triumph's alive then.

[Sean Whitmore]

Ah cool, maybe Triumph's alive then.

I understood "cool" and I understood "maybe Triumph's alive", I just don't understand what they're doing in the same sentence.


SEAN

[Dr. Killbydeath]

Anyone notice Fate's helmet in the Trophy room? I'm assuming it's a fake for display... I doubt Batman could have taken it apart.

[Hawkman]

On the whole, I don't think Meltzer's bad, but his dialogue felt pretty choppy here in my opinion. Every other exchange was like:

"So you--"
"Yeah, I did. But I--"
"No, no. That's okay, I understand. Anyway, you want to--"
"Sounds great."

I found it very tiring, almost to the point of it being laughable. Reminded me too much of a Seinfeld episode, personally. ("She's a sentence-finisher; it's like dating Mad Libs.")

Otherwise, I like Meltzer. His pacing is slow, so I can see why others wouldn't, but it hasn't bothered me in this initial arc. JSA remains my must-read team book, but Justice League is still fun nonetheless.

I'd be remiss if I didn't admit to being anxious to see who takes over the title, though. Meltzer got it off the ground slowly but surely, but now that the stage is set I'd like to see someone else take it somewhere with a little more action. Since he's having to work with Johns on the upcoming crossover, I'm not too worried about that for the next three issues. 11 & 12, however, I fear for two issues of more plodding dialogue.

[skally19]

Brad Meltzer's writing on this is very poor. He's better suited to his prose work.

I HATE THIS argument. seems like such a lazy cop out argument.

[rick]

I understood "cool" and I understood "maybe Triumph's alive", I just don't understand what they're doing in the same sentence.


SEAN


Triumph is currently moonlighting over at Marvel as the Sentry.

Where he is still a complete loseer.

[Cayman]

I understood "cool" and I understood "maybe Triumph's alive", I just don't understand what they're doing in the same sentence.


SEAN

Heh heh, I just felt bad for the poor ice sculpture.

[Suzanne]

I agree that this issue was heart-warming, like #0 was. Roy getting the costume, Canary becoming the leader, the new base's nods to the past, and that class photo. What I liked were all the previous group shots surrounding them from those acutal points in League history. That more than makes up for the varient covers not being one fold-out.

I never quite understood the complaints about this. Maybe it was slow, but as long as the presentation is solid, I don't care. I'll take slow-burn, quality work over fast-paced crap any day.

[Ian J.N.]

On the whole, I don't think Meltzer's bad, but his dialogue felt pretty choppy here in my opinion. Every other exchange was like:

"So you--"
"Yeah, I did. But I--"
"No, no. That's okay, I understand. Anyway, you want to--"
"Sounds great."

I found it very tiring, almost to the point of it being laughable.
My favourite dialogue exchange:

Green Arrow: "Don't you get it, Hal? While we all love the League, there are some things I'll always love more."

Green Lantern: "You really miss it that bad?"

Green Arrow: "It's the League, Hal. I miss it every damn day."
...

Bu-Wha? You just said... What the crap are you talking about, Ollie? Oh, good, Superman decided to burn the photographs, that's.. huh? What? Why? Who are you and where are you going!

[Sean Whitmore]

Oh, good, Superman decided to burn the photographs, that's.. huh? What? Why?

That was Frank Miller's suggestion. It was originally supposed to be the Leaguers' faces on the side of a milk caeton, but Meltzer nixed that.


SEAN

[The Shadow]

I always get a kick out of DC legacy characters

DC has legacy characters? :confused:

I thought they only had temporary place holders until whichever was the most popular version comes back ;)

[Sean Whitmore]

DC has legacy characters? :confused:

I thought they only had temporary place holders until whichever was the most popular version comes back ;)

Well, yeah, more often than not. But just because Hal and Ollie and Rex Tyler are back doesn't make Kyle and Conner and Rick Tyler any less cool. :)


SEAN

[BYC]

Dinah being chairperson is certainly interesting. But I have a feeling chairperson and leader are not the same thing. Dinah isn't gonna be making the call on how to save the Earth this time on a consistent basis. Batman is smarter and has more willpower. Superman is more powerful, and the more respected by just about every superhero in the world. Diana is "perfect", lol. Hal has more willpower, and has one of the most powerful weapons ever. In those big JLA vs. world destroyer moments, those moments when people want to mark out, those moments where Superman or Batman would say something badass, I can't imagine Dinah being more qualified to make decision than any of the other 4 big names.

Now, her having the say on non-world threatening decisions I'm fine with. Cause in theory, Batman and Superman indeed should have WAY too many things to do to be able to do the little things, or mudane things. She runs the meetings, she makes the personal decisions, she calls people out, she gives a...human feel to everything. Batman has often been accused of being a character capable of far too much, and emotionally of being far less human.

If Dinah is written as a senior member with sage advice for everybody and is a chairperson, that's fine. But if she's written as a leader, giving battle advice, telling the big 3 and Hal what to do all the time, then I can't see that.

[David O Burcham]

Mad scientists should never... NEVER... muck around with mind-controling galactic starfish.

[Karl O'Neill]

i just bought another issue of JLA 7, just to pull that poster out of it, oh god im so proud of this poster on my desk!

[RodneyRabbit]

Is it just my copy or is every copy the same? It seems the pages in my JLA 7 don't fit...
On the page where Hawkgirl tells Red Arrow his boots are cute, the last panel has the team photo being taken and it says "If Ollie finds out you're chasing that tail..." then the next page has Green Arrow and Green Lantern doing target practice and in the first panel of that page, Green Arrow starts out by saying "Move it further. So you gave Roy the costume?"
The next page is apparantly out of order because it says "...He'll kill you." and has a caption that says "Star City." and Ollie is saying "You actually took a group photo?"
This has to be a mistake, because the page where it says "Star City." should come before the page where they're already having target practice.
Anyone else have an issue where the pages are out of order?
Rodney

[Jmacq1]

Yeah, to make the pages work closer to "in order" you have to fold the "Star City" page over the insert. That's about the best way I can explain it.

Took me a while to figure it out, too. Clearly something got fudged up in the binding process.

[redlantern2051]

Excellent issue! Wow, I was quite touched by the Red Arrow scene, I think they tell his story very well. This title is really coming along and I'm happy with how it goes quite slow, its like reading a good, long book! SO glad Hal is on the team! For me, he is the man!

[Shellhead]

I HATE THIS argument. seems like such a lazy cop out argument.

It is not a lazy cop out argument. Different mediums require different writing styles. Just because somebody writes popular novels doesn't mean that they will have the ability to write good screenplays or comic books or even tv commercials.

Meltzar is accustomed to using several hundred pages of text to tell his story, without any pictures involved. When he writes comics, he can skip most of the descriptive stuff and should be focusing on dialogue and plot and some character development. Instead, we are getting heavy narration and sluggish plot development, and heavy character stuff that is verging on fan fiction in terms of sickening hero worship.

Even so, I definitely prefer Meltzar's work on Justice League to that horrible Identity Crisis fiasco.

[skally19]

It is not a lazy cop out argument. Different mediums require different writing styles. Just because somebody writes popular novels doesn't mean that they will have the ability to write good screenplays or comic books or even tv commercials.

Meltzar is accustomed to using several hundred pages of text to tell his story, without any pictures involved. When he writes comics, he can skip most of the descriptive stuff and should be focusing on dialogue and plot and some character development. Instead, we are getting heavy narration and sluggish plot development, and heavy character stuff that is verging on fan fiction in terms of sickening hero worship.

Even so, I definitely prefer Meltzar's work on Justice League to that horrible Identity Crisis fiasco.

well now it's a good argument. when you just say "bad writing", that's just dumb.

meltzer said on his myspace that there was some printing error and page 30 was before 26 or somehting. and the star city scene should be fluent. i would be mad if i was him.

[titanfan]

Dinah being chairperson is certainly interesting. But I have a feeling chairperson and leader are not the same thing.

Yeah, I don't think Chairperson is necessarily field leader either. Dinah might decide who gets to go on what mission, etc, or approach things from the big picture, but in the field, they'll all defer to whoever is best suited.

Being "leader" has never been a big issue with JLA anyway. They all seem to know when to defer to each other.

[Mon-el]

Is it just my copy or is every copy the same? It seems the pages in my JLA 7 don't fit...
On the page where Hawkgirl tells Red Arrow his boots are cute, the last panel has the team photo being taken and it says "If Ollie finds out you're chasing that tail..." then the next page has Green Arrow and Green Lantern doing target practice and in the first panel of that page, Green Arrow starts out by saying "Move it further. So you gave Roy the costume?"
The next page is apparantly out of order because it says "...He'll kill you." and has a caption that says "Star City." and Ollie is saying "You actually took a group photo?"
This has to be a mistake, because the page where it says "Star City." should come before the page where they're already having target practice.
Anyone else have an issue where the pages are out of order?
Rodney

Meltzer has admitted to the mistake on his myspace page and Newsarama about the pages:

Mistake in JLA 7


Wish this weren't so, but just found out there's a misplaced page in JLA 7. Thanks to an extra ad, Page 30, for some reason, runs before page 26. It oddly still somehow reads okay (kinda), but for the optimum reading experience, there's how it should go. (The whole Star City scene should read together). Sorry for that one.

B

[DaNerd]

I have to say that this storyline was awesome to me. What a nice read. I love the fold out poster (scanned and wallpaper now). I am sorry that he is only on the next 5 issues. I wish he would remain. Awesome stuff.

[mgs]

Great issue!! Well worth it. But hate gimmicky covers. And I have no idea who RA is.

[Black Atom]

This wasn't just a name and costume change -- it was a graduation from being a teen sidekick/renegade to a big-time hero.


Signified by dropping his own, unique name and changing it to one that is directly derivative of the guy he used to be a sidekick to?

[Shellhead]

Signified by dropping his own, unique name and changing it to one that is directly derivative of the guy he used to be a sidekick to?

Hey, that's how they roll in the DCU. Just ask Bart Allen, fka Impulse.

[Gottaluvit]

Signified by dropping his own, unique name and changing it to one that is directly derivative of the guy he used to be a sidekick to?

Signified by accepting where he came from, putting the past between himself and his mentor/father aside and moving on from that hurt that was between them and never fully eased (even though they have reconciled in recent years, that wasn't because Roy and Ollie ever sorted out their past, it was only because Roy chose to take Batmans advice and just be glad Ollie had returned)

It way more then a graduation to the League. It's about Ollie finally admitting his mistakes and attempting to say he's sorry in his own 'Ollieish' way, its about makeing it known to the rest of the DCU that Roy is considered his 'son' and that he's proud of him. Previously there was always some doubt not just by Roy, but by other members of the DCU exactly where Roy stood in Ollie's life, so much so that certain members of the league didn't even bother to invite Roy to Ollie's wake after he died, Roy had to crash it.

Ollie's not one to simply state out loud what he wants others to know, Dinah and Hal would be the only ones he would ever state such personal things to. His giving Roy that costume and stepping aide for Roy to be in the league is a huge step in the character developement of both characters. And Roy's not silly, he'd soon figure out wher the costume came from and what it mean, all he's ever wanted was to be accepted by Ollie, to be "worthy" in Ollies eyes (quoted from the Arsenal mini)

[dupersuper]

Yeah, I don't think Chairperson is necessarily field leader either. Dinah might decide who gets to go on what mission, etc, or approach things from the big picture, but in the field, they'll all defer to whoever is best suited.

Being "leader" has never been a big issue with JLA anyway. They all seem to know when to defer to each other.

I agree. Canary is at least a majorly respected senior member...back in the old league, the idea of Ralph, Zee, Tornado, Firestorm, etc. being elected leader in a group with Supes, Bats, WW, MM, Arthur, Hal and Barry just struck me as stupid...and I was like 6 while reading them. I agree they're all pros and thus know to defer to whoever knows best. I consider it a "1st among equals" type situation. For all their democratic bylaws, I keep going back to the line in the profiles of a Secret Files & Origins issue from the Morrison days...something like "Superman is considered unofficial leader; it is strongly reccomended you treat him as such". These are people who are in charge simply by being in the room.

[Lex]

But back during the Satellite Era, they rotated the chairmanship quite a bit. I remember Atom being chairman for awhile.

I just don't understand what's wrong with having someone other than the Big 3 be the chairperson.

[The Shadow]

Well, yeah, more often than not. But just because Hal and Ollie and Rex Tyler are back doesn't make Kyle and Conner and Rick Tyler any less cool.

True!

But to call them legacy characters seems a stretch.

[Corrina]

Also, Dinah grew up with the JSA as her 'uncles.' Super heroes were ordinary to her.

She's one of the few people on the planet who isn't particularly intimidated by super-powerful beings.

[MutoMikey]

I liked the issue. It's the first I've picked up from the new series. The whole Arsenal to Red Arrow thing was great. I love the way the portreyed that transition. Very nice. But I'm still unsure on whether I want to add the book to my pull-list yet. I'd only want it for Hal, Roy, and Bruce when you get right down to it. I'm not too big a fan of the other characters in the series. But since it's crossing over with JSA this month, I'll be picking it up.

Oh, and the fold out group shot was real cool.

[marshal99]

The Hall of Justice ?! When will gleek and the wonder twins be inducted into the league ? ;)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CqO4-MdHJBY

[Sean Whitmore]

The Hall of Justice ?! When will gleek and the wonder twins be inducted into the league ? ;)

Maybe they can borrow Wendy and Marvin from Teen Titans.


SEAN

[Billage]

Read #0 all the way to #7 straight.Boy does it read so much better.

I felt that Brad was putting too much spotlight on Reddy during the monthlies,but as I read it over again,the only part where Reddy and Kathy's story was dragged on was in the 1st issue.

It was so great actually seeing the build up in character and plot.The team shot in #5 where the 2 squads collide for the first time really made a point.

I just hope the creative team starting with #13 is worthy of the intelligence and foundation Brad has worked so hard to inject into what could easily be just another generic cape book.

[earth3luthor]

Has anyone started a pool yet on what issue Red Tornado's baby will be born?

[batturtle]

The Super Friends base!?! Seriously?
I know that there's a kitch factor to that show...but it wasn't, what's the word? Good.

Can't say that I'm a fan of the new series.
So far it's a lot of over-sentimentality and a fight scene with Amazo.

And I have a slight geeky pet-peeve about the cover.
Although I can see the symatry of placing Batman right in the middle...from a team aspect, shouldn't J'onn be right in the middle? Since he was much more involved in the Detroit & post-Crisis teams?

[Karl O'Neill]

Finally got my 3rd issue of this today, i know, im mad, but i need that poster in my bedroom aswell,

[chriskenny]

I do not like Ed Benes's work at all. Too Extreme Studios of the 90's for me. Get someone solid whose sole talent isn't drawing Jim Lee-style men and soft porn women.

Count me in as someone who doesn't mind the name Red Arrow at all, but I hate the costume. I think its funny how when he puts the costume on he looks very sidekick-ish (a lot more than the costume he had at the beginning of the issue) and GL and Canary go out of their way to say how grown up he looks. Hawkgirl's appraisal of his costume is pretty reflective of mine. And even though I like Roy quite a bit, I'm not appreciating how much Meltzer is jamming him down our throats. The idea that he would surpass Green Arrow, "and soon," smacked of a desperate attempt to make the readership appreciate Roy in a way that seems unearned.

Not a big fan of Geo-Force and not sure how I will feel about his membership, if he chooses to join. I assume will, why else feature him.

I am a big fan of Black Lightning the character, but I think he is visually a nightmare. Someone needs to get him a better costume.

I feel like I don't mind a lot of the creative decisions Meltzer is making on the book (i.e., headquarters, general roster, etc.), but I am looking forward to someone with a more dynamic storytelling style to use that framework in a way that makes for more exciting comics.

Chris

[Karl O'Neill]

[QUOTE=chriskenny;4644397]
The idea that he would surpass Green Arrow, "and soon," smacked of a desperate attempt to make the readership appreciate Roy in a way that seems unearned.

U really havnt seen all the Roy harper appreciation threads online?

Google Roy harper.

Roy held his own against the badass(my fav) villain Deathstroke the Terminator.

spent years on Drugs,

he has been thru the mill, he is more than welcome in the justice leugue of america,

Read carefully, with roy's other weapons and expert marksmanship he will surpass green arrow.

Roy was cool when he was arsenal too.

Roy is a big fan favorite, not just overnight or forced down our throats.

[chriskenny]

[QUOTE=chriskenny;4644397]
The idea that he would surpass Green Arrow, "and soon," smacked of a desperate attempt to make the readership appreciate Roy in a way that seems unearned.

U really havnt seen all the Roy harper appreciation threads online?

Google Roy harper.

Roy held his own against the badass(my fav) villain Deathstroke the Terminator.

spent years on Drugs,

he has been thru the mill, he is more than welcome in the justice leugue of america,

Read carefully, with roy's other weapons and expert marksmanship he will surpass green arrow.

Roy was cool when he was arsenal too.

Roy is a big fan favorite, not just overnight or forced down our throats.


That may be so, but judging by the strange defensiveness about Roy Harper Meltzer demonstrates through his writing, it seems like he isn't convinced of that. If people respect his character on his own merits, why push him like a new drug? Undercutting Oliver Queen to make Roy look cooler just smacks of desperation. That is no slight on Roy, but maybe not a great technique for a writer to use, is all.

[Will.S]

Read #0 all the way to #7 straight.Boy does it read so much better.

I felt that Brad was putting too much spotlight on Reddy during the monthlies,but as I read it over again,the only part where Reddy and Kathy's story was dragged on was in the 1st issue.

It was so great actually seeing the build up in character and plot.The team shot in #5 where the 2 squads collide for the first time really made a point.

I just hope the creative team starting with #13 is worthy of the intelligence and foundation Brad has worked so hard to inject into what could easily be just another generic cape book.
I also read them all in one sitting and it reads pretty good in that way.

The narration boxes still kind of bugged me and there's alot of villain stuff going on with Professor Ivo, Amazo, Solomon Grundy, and Doctor Impossible. Anyway this issue was pretty solid stuff, I still can't believe they have the freaking Hall of Justice. On top of that there's the Satellite and a training room which makes it seem as if they were either overcompensating or Brad had a hard time deciding which direction to go since the Hall of Justice is so iconic but the JLU cartoon satellite is also well known.

Still it works with a bigger league and it looks like they'll occasionally get outside help. It's weird to see GL cry over Roy's costume change but I liked it nontheless since it was one of those sentimental moments (even if overdone) that shows Brad's love for the characters as those three. Over the course of the book Ed Benes art has grown much better very much thanks to the coloring and the inking. It looked really rough and over hatched initially but it's gotten clearer and more distinct from his old style although it's still obviously got the Jim Lee's trappings.

While this Justice League isn't as overpowering as the Big 3 or Morrison era ones, they take a more character driven approach and sort of have a more Avengers take where teamwork is more valuable and require less overpowering brute force tactics. So far the writing still has some rough patches to it and sometimes overly adores certain characters but I'm liking this league since they have a pretty interesting roster and bunch of personalities that are worth seeing.

By the way is Brad just writing this first arc and he's gone or is he taking a breather and coming back?

[dupersuper]

The Hall of Justice ?! When will gleek and the wonder twins be inducted into the league ? ;)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CqO4-MdHJBY

Well, they HAVE BEEN in the dcu for ovewr a decade now...

[Sijo]

Wait. Superman has fingerprint records of the LEGION OF SUPERHEROES in his Fortress!? Does that mean that his having been a member of the Legion (as Superboy) has been retconned back post-Infinite Crisis!? At the very least, he must have had extensive adventures with them, and that's not been the case since the 80's. I don't mind this, but this (and Starboy's use in JSA) make me wonder what version of the Legion is currently correct in the DC Universe. Red Arrow and Starman also hint at Kingdom Come being the "true" future, too.

[Sean Whitmore]

At the very least, he must have had extensive adventures with them, and that's not been the case since the 80's.

Some of the Legion spent an extended time stuck in the 20th Century around the time of Final Night, and interacted with Earth's heroes. They've also teamed up with two different Titans teams since then. I would guess the fingerprints were obtained during one of these many time trips, rather than the old Superboy stories being made canon again.


SEAN

[Hawkman]

By the way is Brad just writing this first arc and he's gone or is he taking a breather and coming back?
Brad's sticking around for twelve issues, and he's working closely with Geoff Johns through issue ten due to the crossover. I'm pretty sure after issue #12, that's it for him. No word yet on who will be filling his shoes once his tenure is over with, but I'm really starting to lean towards Gail Simone after reading her Newsarama interview. At least, I'm hoping it's her...

[The Iron Fist]

I really liked #7. Issues 1-6 were good, but really out of all of them #7 stands out. I thought it was a great issue with many god moments. I like the fact that Black Lightning was really into the whole League thing. He's a good character, so I can't wait to see more of him. I like the new HQ, reminds me of JLU, which is also cool! And as for that group photo? Awesome.

8/10

[CMBMOOL]

THe HALL OF JUSTICE is FINALLY IN THE DCU, man this could be a great day for fans of the Superfriends animated series. :D

[ultramandingo]

THe HALL OF JUSTICE is FINALLY IN THE DCU, man this could be a great day for fans of the Superfriends animated series. :D

....just wait till the apache chief 7 issue arc

[Paul Newell]

Some of the Legion spent an extended time stuck in the 20th Century around the time of Final Night, and interacted with Earth's heroes. They've also teamed up with two different Titans teams since then. I would guess the fingerprints were obtained during one of these many time trips, rather than the old Superboy stories being made canon again.


SEAN
Looks like someone's been missing all the tiny clues sprinkled throughout some DC Titles. There isn't just the fingerprints... :)

[Will.S]

Brad's sticking around for twelve issues, and he's working closely with Geoff Johns through issue ten due to the crossover. I'm pretty sure after issue #12, that's it for him. No word yet on who will be filling his shoes once his tenure is over with, but I'm really starting to lean towards Gail Simone after reading her Newsarama interview. At least, I'm hoping it's her...
Ah I see now thanks.

There are some things that bug me though. One of them is that Brad won't be staying on for a longer time to get an additional year or two to see his stories. While Geoff Johns's issues on Superman, GL and Teen Titans aren't always on time at least he's there for the long haul. I guess if I were to have someone take over the league it would be him but he's kind of busy nowadays.

Secondly, the book is already going into a crossover with the JSA and the Legion of Superheroes. I'd like to at least have one more arc of them working on their own before going into that type of territory, I had the same problem with New Avengers in that they finally gel together to only get ripped apart by Civil War.

I dunno, I just hope someone can use this team well seeing as how it's their job to take over what is basically Brad's team.

[Pinnacle]

THe HALL OF JUSTICE is FINALLY IN THE DCU, man this could be a great day for fans of the Superfriends animated series. :D

I have to say this was a WOW! moment for me. I know the Superfriends show is extremely corny but it was the vehicle via which I was first introduced to the DCU and I love the homage. I also like the fact that it is in Washington, D.C. as I think it would fit in well. I'd love to follow up a visit to the Lincoln Memorial with a stroll to the Hall of Justice.:D

And I for one cannot wait to see the old school LOSH. Here's hoping it's a permanent return. It added to my anticipation for the JSA (best current team book) crossover.

And like everyone else the foldout photo was pure awesome!

[The Shadow]

THe HALL OF JUSTICE is FINALLY IN THE DCU, man this could be a great day for fans of the Superfriends animated series. :D

All 8 of them? ;) :p

[Sijo]

All 8 of them? ;) :p More like all 80 million of them. :D Like it or not, more people know about the "Super Friends" than the the Justice League proper, an entire generation grew up on them.

And while I admit that many SF tv episodes were groan-worthy, the SF comics proper were better written. Most of the Global Guardians were introduced there.

Some of the Legion spent an extended time stuck in the 20th Century around the time of Final Night, and interacted with Earth's heroes. They've also teamed up with two different Titans teams since then. I would guess the fingerprints were obtained during one of these many time trips, rather than the old Superboy stories being made canon again. I'm aware of those, but virtually all those stories have been cancelled by the last Legion reboot. Or where they? In any case, since when does Supes keep fingerprint records of heroes he only meets casually? Again, I'm not opposed to the idea, it just seemed to come from nowhere.

[Sean Whitmore]

I'm aware of those, but virtually all those stories have been cancelled by the last Legion reboot. Or where they?

We've seen people in the present still remember every iteration of the Legion they meet, even if their timeline changes. Superman remembered Bloc after the Zero Hour reboot erased him, for example.


In any case, since when does Supes keep fingerprint records of heroes he only meets casually?

Well, yeah, it's silly no matter how you slice it. Just saying there was opportunity. :)


SEAN

[ultramandingo]

All 8 of them? ;) :p

you mean the cartoon that made aquaman a house hold name ? ........cause it sure wasnt the crappy comics

[Paul Newell]

We've seen people in the present still remember every iteration of the Legion they meet, even if their timeline changes. Superman remembered Bloc after the Zero Hour reboot erased him, for example.
All of which happened before New Earth was "created". An Earth which has been shown to have a history that has been changed a great deal more than the Zero Hour changes. It's very likely that those previous meetings now never happened, in much the same way that Crisis On Infinite Earths wiped out all meetings between Superman and the Legion before the Death of Superboy storyline. It's looking more and more likely that a lot of Pre-Crisis stories may have been replaced the Post-Crisis meetings.
It's been shown that:

A fragment making up New Earth revealed a Superboy, in costume, living in Smallville.
Young Clark Kent had built a secret tunnel from his bedroom to protect his secret identity, same as the Pre-Crisis version. Something he never needed Post-Crisis.
Superman owns a flight ring.
Superman has a set of statues depicting the Pre-Crisis Legionnaires in his Fortress of Solitude.
Superman has information about the Legion in the Fortress' information banks.It's looking more and more like Superman may have been a Legion member as Superboy.

[cyclops2500]

[QUOTE=General Grievous;4644428]


That may be so, but judging by the strange defensiveness about Roy Harper Meltzer demonstrates through his writing, it seems like he isn't convinced of that. If people respect his character on his own merits, why push him like a new drug? Undercutting Oliver Queen to make Roy look cooler just smacks of desperation. That is no slight on Roy, but maybe not a great technique for a writer to use, is all.

I'd say it's not so much a defense as a reminder that of all of them, Roy, along with Black Lightning, have never been a part of any incarnation of the League, and Roy is one of the few former sidekicks to make it. That's a feat all by itself, and there's nothing wrong with making people understand that.

[Karl O'Neill]

[QUOTE=chriskenny;4644448]

I'd say it's not so much a defense as a reminder that of all of them, Roy, along with Black Lightning, have never been a part of any incarnation of the League, and Roy is one of the few former sidekicks to make it. That's a feat all by itself, and there's nothing wrong with making people understand that.

Dude this original quote states that general Grievous siad the above, i did not say that, not me, no

[DDM]

I hope Zan, Jayna, Gleek, Apache Chief, Wendy & Marvin don't show up. The Hall of Justice works for Superfriends, but I'm not so sure in the comic books...

[jadrax]

Apache Chief is currently dead, but Dawn might show up ;o)

[Sean Whitmore]

I hope Zan, Jayna, Gleek, Apache Chief, Wendy & Marvin don't show up.

Except for Gleek, all of the above have shown up in the DCU.


SEAN

[cyclops2500]

[QUOTE=cyclops2500;4647228]

Dude this original quote states that general Grievous siad the above, i did not say that, not me, no

Sorry about that. I hit the quote tab and that's what came up.

[Buried Alien]

I have no problem with anybody who's in the current lineup of the League, but it still doesn't feel quite right to have a League without a Flash.

Some say that Bart isn't ready yet, and maybe that's true. If there's anything to those rumors about Barry, however...

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

[Karl O'Neill]

[QUOTE=General Grievous;4647926]

Sorry about that. I hit the quote tab and that's what came up.

no worries, im a roy harper fan.

[Karl O'Neill]

I have no problem with anybody who's in the current lineup of the League, but it still doesn't feel quite right to have a League without a Flash.

Some say that Bart isn't ready yet, and maybe that's true. If there's anything to those rumors about Barry, however...

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

Agreed. Im a speedster fan in general, even tho supes and wonder woman can move very fast, there not The Flash!

[Buried Alien]

Agreed. Im a speedster fan in general, even tho supes and wonder woman can move very fast, there not The Flash!

Speed aside, there are certain feats that are unique to speedsters and simply cannot be replicated by Kryptonians, Amazonian goddesses, Green Lanterns, or Batman's technology.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

[Ricardo]

Speed aside, there are certain feats that are unique to speedsters and simply cannot be replicated by Kryptonians, Amazonian goddesses, Green Lanterns, or Batman's technology.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

I'm a fan of the Flash too, and it does feel weird not having a Flash on the team.

[Froggy]

Barry Allen rumour? Like, he might be coming back?:confused:

[Buried Alien]

Barry Allen rumour? Like, he might be coming back?:confused:

Possibly. The Flash in those COUNTDOWN teaser images is rumored to be Barry Allen.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

[Dr. Killbydeath]

It's weird without a Flash, but to use Bart at this point would feel forced. I don't think there would be a place for him in the current ranks. I mean, sure, he could have filled Roy's position as the new kid, buthe doesn't have relationships with Hal and Dinah or even Bruce that are nearly as interesting as Roy's. Also, he couldn't pull off flirting with Hawkgirl.

[Froggy]

Possibly. The Flash in those COUNTDOWN teaser images is rumored to be Barry Allen.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)
For real? That'd be interesting...................wonder how he'd feel if he were to return. I know bart would like that
It's weird without a Flash, but to use Bart at this point would feel forced. I don't think there would be a place for him in the current ranks. I mean, sure, he could have filled Roy's position as the new kid, buthe doesn't have relationships with Hal and Dinah or even Bruce that are nearly as interesting as Roy's. Also, he couldn't pull off flirting with Hawkgirl. Thas true, but i'm wondering one thing: NOt wheres wally, but where IS CAROL BUCKLENNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN!

[Joe Acro]

This issue was... annoying, for lack of a better word. I can understand the Hall of Justice and satellite, as various non-readers can relate to those if introduced to the title. It still comes off as a bit unimaginative, though.

What I don't understand is the teleporting technology, the need for a leader election, what's going on with Geo-Force, or the inclusion of Marvel ideas. I don't like how the Starro herald is drawn, nor do I like where that plot seems to be headed.

The art was mostly good. I enjoyed seeing all those things in the museum and reading the great character-interaction moments. But for me, the problems outweigh the good.

[marshal99]

Possibly. The Flash in those COUNTDOWN teaser images is rumored to be Barry Allen.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

God no ! Marvel desecrated on the memory of Captain Mar-vell death by bringing him back and still have him hanging around in the current universe. DC shouldn't do the same to Barry Allen who died a warrior's death , true that Barry had appeared in other storylines since his death but those are usually one shot deals and he doesn't remain.

[AM/FM Wizard]

God no ! Marvel desecrated on the memory of Captain Mar-vell death by bringing him back and still have him hanging around in the current universe. DC shouldn't do the same to Barry Allen who died a warrior's death , true that Barry had appeared in other storylines since his death but those are usually one shot deals and he doesn't remain.

Technically, I wouldn't say that Barry actually "died", as Marv Wolfman himself has said that he left an out hidden in COIE for Barry to return. And I for one would be very, very happy to his return... ecspecially to this new JLoA (although Barry replacing Bart in the ongoing would be nice, too).

As to the issue at hand, I've been enjoying Melzter's run, but I am having a problem with his pacing and some of his dialogue.

[LtMarvel]

Hourman I is using that Wolfman out right now...

[dupersuper]

Hourman I is using that Wolfman out right now...

He was, he's since just come back completely. To me, it's hard enough to be a league without Flash or Aquaman, but to do it without J'onn is just sad.

[Buried Alien]

God no ! Marvel desecrated on the memory of Captain Mar-vell death by bringing him back and still have him hanging around in the current universe. DC shouldn't do the same to Barry Allen who died a warrior's death , true that Barry had appeared in other storylines since his death but those are usually one shot deals and he doesn't remain.

I've had my fill of Barry being dead. It's been twenty years, and I don't see why the stories of today and tomorrow need to be compromised for the sake of a story published two decades ago. It'd be one thing if there were no precedent for the revival of dead characters, but with everybody from Hal Jordan to Oliver Queen to even Jason Todd back from death, what *real* excuse is there to keep Barry Allen dead now?

A new generation of comic book readers deserves to get to know Barry Allen as a living, crimefighting superhero of today rather than as a dead icon of the past.

Barry Allen is too valuable a character in the DC Universe to limit him to being "that dead Flash that the living characters wax nostalgic about."



Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

[Bored at 3:00AM]

I wanted to re-read the whole story from #0 prologue to this epilogue before commenting and, now that I have, I can't say my feelings on the story have changed all that much. It was good, but not great.

Meltzer certainly has a very specific idea of who these characters are, but he lets his inner-fanboy get in the way of telling a good story too often. He seems more concerned with showing us how imprortant and monumental these events are and how they're built so carefully upon the past history of the DCU than he is with actually telling an entertaining story in it's own right.

I'd much rather read a great JLA story than read the BIRTH OF THE LEGEND OF THE NEWEST ERA OF THE JUSTICE LEAGUE OF AMERICA SAGA! In other words, Meltzer & Benes are doing a decent job, but I wish they'd tone down the pomposity a tad and work a little harder on giving us a good JLA yarn.

[saintsaucey]

Omg i loved the story created a nice wrap around for the arc and it had a very nice, (what heroes do in their down time) feel to it. I love the new hall and the if you can't stand the heat. that was sqee worthy. I'm interested to see what comes next.

Tim Drake = Robin
Dick Grayson = Nightwing
Jason Todd = ex-Robin ex-Nightwing ex-Red Hood Current Red Robin

[Karl O'Neill]

don't care what anyone says Roy harper is the star of JLA issue 7 those panels were beautifully illustrated. he nearly cried myself

[Carter Hall]

Meltzer certainly has a very specific idea of who these characters are, but he lets his inner-fanboy get in the way of telling a good story too often. He seems more concerned with showing us how imprortant and monumental these events are and how they're built so carefully upon the past history of the DCU than he is with actually telling an entertaining story in it's own right.

I'd much rather read a great JLA story than read the BIRTH OF THE LEGEND OF THE NEWEST ERA OF THE JUSTICE LEAGUE OF AMERICA SAGA! In other words, Meltzer & Benes are doing a decent job, but I wish they'd tone down the pomposity a tad and work a little harder on giving us a good JLA yarn.

Y'know, my reactions have been very mixed about the current JLA, and I agree with the above.

For one, I also agree that Meltzer should tone down the homages paid to previous JL/SF incarnations, as it prevents the current JLA from standing on its own two feet. Also, I like Benes' work, but I don't know if it works with Meltzer's brainy dialogue- much like Jim Lee's art didn't work with Frank Miller dialogue in All-Star Batman, IMHO. So far, issue #'s 0 and 7 have been the only ones I've liked because they've been the "day-off" books. I was underwhelmed by 1-6.

My take since day one has been this: I really, really liked Identity Crisis, despite how mixed the reactions were. It had fantastic characterizations, and really pushed the envelope when it came to personal "down-time" superhero stories. But this is a certain type of story, one that doesn't work as an ongoing book, especially not with something like the Justice League. Brad Meltzer is a mystery novelist by background, and as such, he specializes in the conversations rather than the action- wordy pages, lots of conversations and thought-bubbles happening at the same time, etc. I just don't think it works as a JLoA ongoing comic. It drove me bananas trying to follow all the conversations and who was saying what, especially when there are SO MANY CHARACTERS in the mix in this story- heroes and villains. I'd rather see the formulaic team-up story in the beginning, followed by various arcs that get to introduce us to each character, perhaps one or two at a time, a little deeper.

In addition, I know it's only the first arc but this combination of heroes doesn't seem to gel at all. I like the coming of age story with Roy becoming Red Arrow, but it almost feels like that story doesn't have to be in this book. Hal hasn't done much so far and felt like wallpaper during this first arc. Vixen seems tacked onto the picture due to her spotlight time in the animated JLU. Black Canary as leader? No Martian Manhunter? And I don't know if Mr. Meltzer is reading the current Hawkgirl comic, but she's currently very torn up inside about her relationship with Hawkman, if it should and can exist- I'm not seeing this reflected in the story, as in JLA Kendra seems pretty happy-go-lucky. I know this is not her book, but I wish JLA seemed as if it were conscious of that.

I really want this book to be good. But currently I'll say it's about a C grade. If things don't pick up with the JLA/JSA crossover, I'm dropping this one.

[chriskenny]

I wanted to re-read the whole story from #0 prologue to this epilogue before commenting and, now that I have, I can't say my feelings on the story have changed all that much. It was good, but not great.

Meltzer certainly has a very specific idea of who these characters are, but he lets his inner-fanboy get in the way of telling a good story too often. He seems more concerned with showing us how imprortant and monumental these events are and how they're built so carefully upon the past history of the DCU than he is with actually telling an entertaining story in it's own right.

I'd much rather read a great JLA story than read the BIRTH OF THE LEGEND OF THE NEWEST ERA OF THE JUSTICE LEAGUE OF AMERICA SAGA! In other words, Meltzer & Benes are doing a decent job, but I wish they'd tone down the pomposity a tad and work a little harder on giving us a good JLA yarn.

I agree. I feel like the story isn't really a story, but a conversation from the writer to the reader about what he likes best about the Justice League and the outlying DCU.

And a lot of the story can come off very unnatural as a result.

For instance, I have no problem with the development of Roy Harper IN THEORY. I have no problem with his new persona or his membership. But having also read through the whole storyarc, I feel like he has been rammed down our throats. And the storyline just screams "I'm Brad Meltzer and I really love Red Tornado and Red Arrow! A LOT!" But that enthusiasm doesn't translate into natural storytelling. It just seems forced. And I don't want Roy Harper fans to get defensive about his standing in the universe-- again, I have no problems with the developments--but I feel like the attention and actual execution of those developments left me a little cold.

I also feel like there was a lot of time wasted in the story with things that amounted to nothing. Okay, I understand it was a slow build to get to the actual roster of the team, but did we really need Batman and Superman to sit around for so long looking at photos when it ultimately would amount to nothing at all? I mean, the conceit that they would come to realize that the magic of teamwork couldn't be worked out in such a way and that serendipity works out the dynamics of a team is interesting, but did it have to go on for so damn long? Three issues? Haha, it just seemed weird to me. They could have made that half an issue and we could have saved a ton of story space for the actual threat of the villains, which seemed very murky and convoluted.

I agree the line-up is interesting and it will be a good set-up for future storylines, but I am not sure how I feel about the tone that the writer has brought to the book. I look forward to a new writer taking what Meltzer has established and running with. Rumor is Gail Simone might be taking over the book. If that is the case, it will be interesting to see what she does with this new team. I would love to see a new artist, someone whose art style seems more suited to the Justice League and less to Youngblood.

[chriskenny]

Another note... I was looking at the team "photos" in the background of the pull out and I LOVE the line-up for the Justice League during the Perez era. Talk about a well-rounded, classic group.

Actually, I think I am going to make a thread about that...

[Fatguy]

FINALLY read this, and here's my epic take on it: it was good!

Thats right, head my words. I do want to add as well, Benes draws the worlds greatest Canary. Not just in the "OMG she's hawt!!" way (although I wont deny she is ;) ), but there's something in the way he draws her that brings out everything I like about her, Sexy/classy/cool.

[J. Robb]

I liked the reference to the old "Connect Four" (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WU1K4X_LOxY) commercial.

And the ad for new JLofA action figures on the back of the pull-out was marketing synergy at its best!

[Boldido]

like the comment about the training room

Sounds like a "DANGEROUS ROOM"


Basicly admiting they ripping off a Danger Room and giving a nodNot quite. My understanding is that the Niles Caulder reference underneath was to the fact that the Doom Patrol had the Danger Room concept before the X-men did. They stole it from D.C., just like they stole the X-men from the Doom Patrol.

[recluse357]

Not quite. My understanding is that the Niles Caulder reference underneath was to the fact that the Doom Patrol had the Danger Room concept before the X-men did. They stole it from D.C., just like they stole the X-men from the Doom Patrol.

Was thinking along the same lines...

BL- "That's a dangerous room. Bruce design that too?"
WW- "He wishes. Niles Caulder beat him too it."

Didn't know the Doom Patrol had a room that was copied as the Danger Room though.


r.

[ultramandingo]

Not quite. My understanding is that the Niles Caulder reference underneath was to the fact that the Doom Patrol had the Danger Room concept before the X-men did. They stole it from D.C., just like they stole the X-men from the Doom Patrol.

they boosted Caulder's wheelchair too , the creeps

[Dr. Killbydeath]

they boosted Caulder's wheelchair too , the creeps

That's what you get for Green Arrow stealing Hawkeye's personality.

[ultramandingo]

That's what you get for Green Arrow stealing Hawkeye's personality.

who did the" dead not dead" thing first.........

[Dr. Killbydeath]

who did the" dead not dead" thing first.........

It happens so often it's not worth arguing about it.

[ultramandingo]

It happens so often it's not worth arguing about it.

huh. i only knows about one time green arrow died and the one time hawkeye pulled an ollie . but whada i know......

[Dr. Killbydeath]

Oh... Those characters specifically. I thought you neant in all of DC and Marvel.

[satchmo the dragon]

Why are B list characters in the JLA now? :( Just like Marvel breaking up the Avengers into two teams. Why can't we get teams with all the best characters on them? Black Lightning? Red Tornado? Cmon!

[Sean Whitmore]

Why are B list characters in the JLA now? :(

Because that's how they become A list characters.


SEAN

[Bored at 3:00AM]

Black Lightning should have been in the League yeeeeeears ago.

He shoulda been A-list but DC editorial and Hanna-frackin'-Barbera kept screwing around with him.

He needs his damn afro back though...

[projectnrm]

I'm actually surprised at how diverse this team is.

DC has always caught flak over the lack of diversity in their character base. But this team looks very good.

Just a 2-to-1 ratio of men to women. Slightly more than that if Geo-Force joins the team.

Two African-Americans in Black Lightning and Vixen.

Black Canary (a female) leading the squad.

Good show, DC. Good show.

[Lex]

Why are B list characters in the JLA now? :( Just like Marvel breaking up the Avengers into two teams. Why can't we get teams with all the best characters on them? Black Lightning? Red Tornado? Cmon!
*shakes head in disapproving manner*

Some people would say that characters like Black Lightning, Red Tornado and Vixen are the "best characters." As much as I loved Morrison's JLA, only having the iconic characters gets boring. I enjoy seeing characters like Superman and Green Lantern interact with characters that might not be as well known as they are.

And it's good for comics.

[LordAllMighty]

Because that's how they become A list characters.


SEAN

*shakes head in disapproving manner*

Some people would say that characters like Black Lightning, Red Tornado and Vixen are the "best characters." As much as I loved Morrison's JLA, only having the iconic characters gets boring. I enjoy seeing characters like Superman and Green Lantern interact with characters that might not be as well known as they are.

And it's good for comics.

I agree 100%

[ultramandingo]

john johnz , aquaman , the atom and the hawk people were pretty much b-listers when they joined the jla - 'corce for every john johnz you get a dozen vibes and gypsys

[Carter Hall]

Why are B list characters in the JLA now? :( Just like Marvel breaking up the Avengers into two teams. Why can't we get teams with all the best characters on them? Black Lightning? Red Tornado? Cmon!

I kinda feel the same way. While I know it adds adds more avenues for telling stories, if you're going to have mostly A characters with one B or C character, the minor characters feel weird and out of place. Either mix them equally, or go all A list, I think (at least in the case of this JLA).

I'm cool with Red Tornado, but Black Lightning? Red Arrow? I mean, both of those guys are cool stories in themselves, but they seem out of place on this team to me.

[PaulTiberius]

Apologies if this has already been mentioned earlier in the thread, but no time to read it all.

My copy of this issue had a page out of order just before the gatefold, turning the concluding GA/GL scene backwards. Anybody else have that problem?

[jadrax]

Apologies if this has already been mentioned earlier in the thread, but no time to read it all.

My copy of this issue had a page out of order just before the gatefold, turning the concluding GA/GL scene backwards. Anybody else have that problem?

everybody does.

[Cayman]

I really like Black Lightning on the team, but then I've always had a soft spot for the character. Hawkgirl is pretty cool too, although I'd so much prefer Shayera Thal. Come back to us!

I don't especially care for Red Arrow on the team, other than thinking his romance possibilities with Kendra could be interesting.

Meltzer's whiny Red Tornado has really killed my enthusiasm for the character.

I don't know if Geo-Force is technically a team member or not but I love having him around. He's always been one of my dream JLA members.

[Joe Acro]

Wrong thread.

[Karl O'Neill]

I really like Black Lightning on the team, but then I've always had a soft spot for the character. Hawkgirl is pretty cool too, although I'd so much prefer Shayera Thal. Come back to us!

I don't especially care for Red Arrow on the team, other than thinking his romance possibilities with Kendra could be interesting.

Meltzer's whiny Red Tornado has really killed my enthusiasm for the character.

I don't know if Geo-Force is technically a team member or not but I love having him around. He's always been one of my dream JLA members.

Androids don't get whiny, they just appear whiny!

[Carter Hall]

Meltzer's whiny Red Tornado has really killed my enthusiasm for the character.

Yeah, no kidding. He really has been an annoying character in this arc!