World War Hulk: Whose side are YOU on?

[agirlyman]

Black Bolt (Blackagar Boltagon), Doctor Strange, Iron Man (Anthony Stark), Mister Fantastic (Reed Richards), Sub-Mariner (Namor McKenzie), Professor X (Charles Xavier)
http://www.marvel.com/universe3zx/images/thumb/4/4a/Illuminati.jpg/442px-Illuminati.jpg

I wouldn't, save for Namor who had already seen the writing on the wall. If Captain America can die, everybody is fair game, only difference is Cap will be missed.

[Cayman]

I would miss all the Illuminati characters with the exception of Reed Richards.

[Violently Apathetic]

I'd miss Namor, Blackbolt and Doctor Strange. The other half of the group can go to Hell.

[The Fury]

Xavier had nothing to do with that decision. He;s done no wrong in this instance.

[Karthak]

I'd miss Namor, Blackbolt and Doctor Strange. The other half of the group can go to Hell.

Ditto here, except that I would prefer Xavier to survive. Despite some of the things he's done, he is still one of my favorite characters. Stark and Richards on the other hand...

[Pendaran]

Aside from the unlikelyhood of Reed and Tony dying, I imagine that Reed's wife and young children would shed tears at him being killed.

[Chachi]

I would cheer if Tony Stark got dismembered into 1000 pieces! :evilsmile

[Wild Card13]

I could imagine quite a lot of people would be saddened at the deaths of Tony Stark and Reed Richards, who are the world's greatest hereoes in the eyes of the public for fighting for what the public wanted. Similarly, the mutant community, small as it is, would definitely mourn the loss (again) of Charles Xavier. Namor is in no danger, at least.

[trickster]

I'd miss Namor, Blackbolt and Doctor Strange. The other half of the group can go to Hell.

Thirded. And yes, Xavier has at least done some good.

[rZi]

I wouldn't miss Namor at all....the others i would, and even though Cap was killed i really, really don't think this means anyone is on the cards to be killed.

[Den]

Shed a tear? No. Doesn't mean I want it to happen...

Well, maybe to Stark and to a lesser degree Reed.

[agirlyman]

I wouldn't miss Namor at all....the others i would, and even though Cap was killed i really, really don't think this means anyone is on the cards to be killed.

I'd miss Namor, personally I don't think he'd fight the Hulk unless attacked first, but if he was the sole survivor he could comfort "Susan", and play daddy to the FF kids.

=D

[IRONY...]

just do not kill Dr Strange now that he has his own series

[CyberCoyote]

I wouldn't want to see any of 'em dead. Tony's a complete jerk but he needs to be destroyed, not just killed. The direction he's going in is pretty much the overall accepted character direction for him. Reed's involvement and level of 'jerklihood' was forced on him and now his own writer (McDuffie) is trying to turn it around and spin it. Reed was sacrificed for the story but Tony's supposed to be coming off the way he is.

[Beast]

I know one person who probably would. Banner. Given that if he kills people who were his friends, he just proves them right for shooting him off into space in the first place. Silly ole Hulk.

[Deadpooligan]

I'm not sure the Hulk is totally capable of killing Black Bolt or Doctor Strange on his own.

Hell, didn't Iron Man KO him in one punch once? (Though it totally burnt him out.) Tony may be the bar.

I wouldn't really care if Xavier or Namor died, despite the fact Hulk has no reason to kill them anyway.

[Kevinroc]

There would probably be a number of people that would shed a tear in the MU if Hulk killed the members of The Illuminati.

All the Inhumans would mourn Black Bolt. The rest of humanity? Probably not so much right now.

The Fantastic Four, as well as their close allies, would shed a tear for Reed.

While the X-Men are upset at Xavier at the moment, they would be sad if he died. As would Lilandra.

Some of the Atlanteans, and Namora, would shed a tear for Namor.

Dr. Strange is pretty well liked by most of Earth's heroes and The New Avengers wouldn't be too pleased.

And finally, despite readers hating him right now, most of the normal citizens of Marvel's US would shed a tear for Iron Man.

[Samuraixsithlord]

Iron-man is so going to die in WWH. But i big twist of irony would be if Cap saved his life. Because i'd be willing to bet at least $10 on Cap coming back near the end of WWH something to do with the super-soldier serum in his body or some non-sense like that

[Frank]

It would be bad for Marvel if it happens.

The FF are without Reed and Sue but we all know it's only for the time being. But they will return and the FF won't ever be the FF:"these four explorers bombarded by cosmic rays, changed forever". The Inhumans without their silent leader would not be as interesting. Plus Black Bolt looks too cool for words. Doctor Strange..he's Mr. Magic of the MU, it would be awful to lose him.

That said, I could see Hulk not killing but delivering a smackdown with consequences. We have Tony Stark who's now connected to everything to various sources of informations, directing all Avengers teams, knows every secrets, has the President's ear. If only Hulk could damage him enough so he could become a cripple. So deformed by the beating and limb stretching that he would be quasi-paralised only kept alive by parts of his armor, just sitting in a same super high-tech room where he would keep monitoring everything, information flowing inside his armor and inside him like a freaky Hydra-like super-villain. Strange would be burned alive, kept alive by only shear will and he would hide his appearance via the masked costume he wore in the 70s. As for Reed, I could see a titanic battle between Hulk and The Thing so Ben can protect Reed. Given that Hulk is also smart, to punish Reed, he could give him to Dr. Doom so he could spend time in prison in Latveria. Prox X was not there. As for BB, Hulk and his friends basically makes Attilan their new home. Hulk rips his throat.

[stingerman]

I'd shed tears of joy.

[SensorBoy]

It's not the Hulk they should watch out for.

Thor is unlikely to be happy that Reed & Tony cloned him, then set the clone to kill Thors friends....

[stingerman]

It's not the Hulk they should watch out for.

Thor is unlikely to be happy that Reed & Tony cloned him, then set the clone to kill Thors friends....

Maybe the Hulk and Thor team up! Yeah Right!!:)

[Syzygy]

I believe I would.

I don't want a Marvel Universe without Iron Man, Mr Fantastic, Dr Strange, Black Bolt, Submariner, and Professor X.

It would be rather less interesting, at the very least.

Peace,
Syzygy

[niall mc cann]

I believe I would.

I don't want a Marvel Universe without Iron Man, Mr Fantastic, Dr Strange, Black Bolt, Submariner, and Professor X.

It would be rather less interesting, at the very least.

Peace,
Syzygy

I'll join your club.

No matter how OOC they're being written lately, i love those guys.

[beetheb]

Iron-man is so going to die in WWH. But i big twist of irony would be if Cap saved his life. Because i'd be willing to bet at least $10 on Cap coming back near the end of WWH something to do with the super-soldier serum in his body or some non-sense like that

I seriously doubt they're going to give Hulk the satisfaction of taking out Stark, though it would be awesome to see.

No, they've referenced WWH as "Starks first big challenge as head of SHIELD" indicating that it won't be his last.....Then again it could all be misinformation, lord knows they did it with Cap's death, those Marvel dudes can be sneaky :evilsmile

Either way, can't wait to see Hulk crack some heads...:D

[Dark Soul # 7]

I'd personally miss Black Bolt most of them, and maybe Dr.Strange and Xavier.
That said I'm pretty sure that none of them will die in WWH.
If they do die I'd be very surprised.

[Thorlief]

It would be kind of sad, but also fun to watch. I know I'm perverted 8)

[sgt pepper]

You're kidding, right? The folks on here cried when Punisher "killed" some third rate villains in War Journal. And many many cried when Cap was announced dead, before they even read the comic, even though it's obvious that he's not really dead. So the mourning over the illuminati would last for decades, I'm guessing. What an awesome issue that would be, though.

[Thorlief]

You're kidding, right? The folks on here cried when Punisher "killed" some third rate villains in War Journal. And many many cried when Cap was announced dead, before they even read the comic, even though it's obvious that he's not really dead. So the mourning over the illuminati would last for decades, I'm guessing. What an awesome issue that would be, though.

thats why i said Im a perv. I will be sad just as you, guys, but my eyes would be glued to the panels. . :o

[CMBMOOL]

I'd miss Namor, personally I don't think he'd fight the Hulk unless attacked first, but if he was the sole survivor he could comfort "Susan", and play daddy to the FF kids.

=D


I wouldn't miss anyone, exepct maybe Reed Richards due to his intelligence, due to their jerk like attitude towards the other heroes, although Namor would get a free Pass for him not agreeing with the Hulk's exile

[Shyft]

Let Reed and Tony bite it. Im indifferent to Black Bolt. Although i like his powers/origin/costume, because you never see him speak, he seems to have very little character...I wouldnt WANT him dead, but i wouldn't be too pissed if he did die.

[Beast]

You're kidding, right? The folks on here cried when Punisher "killed" some third rate villains in War Journal. And many many cried when Cap was announced dead, before they even read the comic, even though it's obvious that he's not really dead. So the mourning over the illuminati would last for decades, I'm guessing. What an awesome issue that would be, though.
Still dealing with the Denial stage of mourning, eh?

[niall mc cann]

I wouldn't miss anyone, exepct maybe Reed Richards due to his intelligence, due to their jerk like attitude towards the other heroes, although Namor would get a free Pass for him not agreeing with the Hulk's exile

If you look any further back than Civil War or te Hulk's exile, Namor has to rank as a bigger jerk than all of the others combined.

How many innocent lives has he endangered over the years, compared to the others? And in terms of future dangers, he's easily the biggest wild card of the bunch. He could lose it at any second, and when Namor loses it, everybody has to know about it...

[JaeYu1]

Neither Reed Richards nor Tony Stark will be killed because both have upcoming films... But I would love to see that happen! I've been saying for YEARS that Reed Richards is the ultimate villain in the Marvel Universe... but who knew Tony was such a tool as well?

Namor doesn't deserve to be killed, but I suspect Hulk and Namor will tangle first and then Namor will straighten Hulk out and they'll join forces to lay the smacketh downeth on all the Illuminati's candy-@$$e$!

Don't think Dr. Strange will get it, and that might leave Black Bolt, Charles Xavier and Black Panther.

Don't see T'Challa getting it. But BB & Prof. X might, since the X-Men movie franchise is over for the foreseeable future. I think Black Bolt better start looking up at the sky and over his shoulder...

[Pendaran]

Namor doesn't deserve to be killed

I'm almost certain the people who live in the various cities he's flooded/attacked with tidal waves and essentially Africa would have a very different view on that point. And various people might still hold a grudge over the time Namor helped Doom turn the human race into his mind slaves. I like that willingly aiding supervillains in the total enslavement of mankind is less offensive than messing around with the Hulk.

[theardri]

Xavier had nothing to do with that decision. He;s done no wrong in this instance.

For once ;)

[JaeYu1]

I'm almost certain the people who live in the various cities he's flooded/attacked with tidal waves and essentially Africa would have a very different view on that point. And various people might still hold a grudge over the time Namor helped Doom turn the human race into his mind slaves. I like that willingly aiding supervillains in the total enslavement of mankind is less offensive than messing around with the Hulk.

Let me clarify myself: Namor doesn't deserve to be killed by the Hulk since Namor didn't have anything to do with sending Hulk out into space. I'm not saying Namor is Mr. Squeaky-Clean, just not guilty of exiling the Hulk. Now, NICK FURY??? He better watch his @$$, 'cause I'm sure Hulk hasn't forgotten who tricked him into the space station in the first place!!!

[Pendaran]

Now, NICK FURY??? He better watch his @$$, 'cause I'm sure Hulk hasn't forgotten who tricked him into the space station in the first place!!!

Actually, that was a Nick Fury LMD.

[Shellhead]

Superman would shed a tear, if he found out. Not because he was particularly close to the Illuminati or even met all of them, but just because Superman cries so much. He's super-emotional.

[Pendaran]

Superman would shed a tear, if he found out. Not because he was particularly close to the Illuminati or even met all of them, but just because Superman cries so much. He's super-emotional.

Be fair, he'd probably only shed a tear if it was for a cover shot, dramatic ending page, or splash panel.

[Shellhead]

Be fair, he'd probably only shed a tear if it was for a cover shot, dramatic ending page, or splash panel.

Generally you are correct about that. However, Superman's tears were once a plot point, in this comic:

http://image.milehighcomics.com/istore/images/large/43961369274.125.gif

[Tazirai]

Dont kill strange, Professor X.. The Shiar are already makin baldy suffer,

Reed and TOny can go to hell on a Hot Sled.

Blackbolt should live,
Namor im on the fence with.

[anthony!]

I'd cry for all of them! I love them all!

[agirlyman]

Neither Reed Richards nor Tony Stark will be killed because both have upcoming films... But I would love to see that happen! I've been saying for YEARS that Reed Richards is the ultimate villain in the Marvel Universe... but who knew Tony was such a tool as well?

Hmmmm they are working on a Captain America movie as well...so yeah. Neither Reed Richards, or Iron man are 1/3 the hero/icon that Cap is.

[myslead]

well i would miss Namor, Black Bolt and Strange.

the others? nah.

[chrismileslord]

the only ones I want left alive is Black Bolt and Namor. The rest don't matter to me.

[Shellhead]

Like them or not, every single Illuminati character is an important character in the Marvel Universe. Absolutely none of the characters that have been introduced in the last 25 years are interesting enough to fill that kind of role. No, not even Gambit. ;)

[Willminus2]

Wouldn't it be great if the Hulk killed Stark and Richards that would be awesome!!!

I don't want to see Black Bolt or Namor dead and Dr. Strange and Xavier should live too.

[Wild Card13]

Thing is, the Hulk would have a hard time facing off against any member of the Illuminati. Tony has the might of SHIELD behind him, as well as his Hulkbuster armor. Reed is the least dangerous, but he's got the backing of the F4 and any number of dangerous tech toys at his disposal. Black Bolt and Namor are both capable of taking the Hulk in an out-and-out fight. Black Bolt would just have to recite the first sentence from "Tale of Two Cities" and Hulk is toast, while Namor is almost as strong as the Hulk and has a lot more up his sleeve than just strength. And of course, there's nothing Dr. Strange can't do.

Really, the odd man out is Charlie, who's lacking in his usual powers right now. But if he were powered, I somehow think Hulk would be contained a lot more quickly.

[The Fury]

...you know, Hulk wouldn't kill.

[tjarvis]

Wouldn't it be great if the Hulk killed Stark and Richards that would be awesome!!!

I don't want to see Black Bolt or Namor dead and Dr. Strange and Xavier should live too.

God, that would be horrible.

For all his dickishness lately, Tony Stark has never been a more interesting character for me to read than right now. He's a truly complex character stuck in a world of gray. I'd hate to lose that.

And killing off Reed would be even worse. He's the center of the Fantastic Four, the title just couldn't exist without him. He's a touchstone of the Marvel Universe. And could you imagine the rage of Sue or Franklin at his death? My God, the Hulk would be ripped to shreds.

[Maestro]

Tony is going to beat Hulk and win again. Tony Stark will never lose again!

[XPac]

Tony is going to beat Hulk and win again. Tony Stark will never lose again!

Yes and no. Tony will win in the sense that I'm sure Hulk won't suceed in killing Stark or removing him from power. But it's very possible Hulk will still kick his @$$.

That's what happened with Cap.

[BeastieRunner]

If any or ALL of them die . . . I fear a,

" HULK RETCON PUNCH!!! "

[NickThompson]

Actually, that was a Nick Fury LMD.
Hulk doesn't know that :D




I'd be very dissapointed if Reed, Tony or Namor got it, as they are in very interesting positions right now.

[Pheonix-NoRelation]

Me. I like 'em all.

[Kevinroc]

Yes and no. Tony will win in the sense that I'm sure Hulk won't suceed in killing Stark or removing him from power. But it's very possible Hulk will still kick his @$$.

That's what happened with Cap.

What if Hulk chooses to show mercy? He wins and also shows mercy, thus demonstrating that he is not the monster that Stark thought he was.

In which case, Iron Man will have lost the physical as well as the moral battle.

[Harold of the Rocks]

just not the one most of you are imagining...

If he comes back to raise hell, doesn't he simply prove they were right to send him away in the first place?!?

I'm more likely to shed a tear if the Illuminati don't spank Hulk's green bottom until it's purple (to match his pants) and send him back into outer-space! Much like a child whose been sent to his room as punishment and tries to sneak out again! I want to see Tony go all Extremis on him..."I said, go to your planet! And stay there until I say you can come back! And no supper for you, either!".

That's what I'm hoping for...

[CMBMOOL]

What if Hulk chooses to show mercy? He wins and also shows mercy, thus demonstrating that he is not the monster that Stark thought he was.

In which case, Iron Man will have lost the physical as well as the moral battle.

Yep that would be a sight to see in front of various super teams, for the Hulk to prove the Illuminati wrong in the end. :D

[Calybos]

I'd rather not see the Hulk as a killer--not because I value the lives of his targets, but because the Hulk shouldn't stoop to that level.

[Mac Danny]

Their Mom's would miss them... and so would I.

Why are there no women in the Illuminati?? What gives ya sexist boys club.

[Shellhead]

Their Mom's would miss them... and so would I.

Why are there no women in the Illuminati?? What gives ya sexist boys club.

The members of the Illuminati are all leaders and thinkers, bold visionaries and inventors. Name me even one female Marvel hero with those kind of qualities.

Jean Grey has powerful psionic abilities, but she tends to be concerned with matters that are either extremely personal or quite cosmic. Storm is a leader, but her lack of connections outside mutant society is a serious flaw. She-Hulk is a bright attorney and Carol Danvers is what, a pilot? Monica Rambeau was a tugboat captain... she may have lead the Avengers, but she was an average tactician and not much of a strategist. Spider-Woman is not much more than a P.I. with some super-powers.

[Another Aaron]

Emma Frost?

[agirlyman]

the only ones I want left alive is Black Bolt and Namor. The rest don't matter to me.

Works for me lordy.

:D

[Shellhead]

Emma Frost?

I think Emma is an interesting and somewhat impressive character, but she is a lightweight compared to genius inventors like Reed and Tony, or kings like Namor, Black Bolt (I refuse to call him Blackagar Boltagon), and T'Challa. Doctor Strange is the Sorceror Supreme of the 616 Dimension, which puts him on a whole different level of play. So the closest Emma comes to any of the Illuminati members is Charles Xavier, the Martin Luther King of the mutants. Compared to that, Emma is at best a mid-level player, a team leader.

[Silver Nimbus]

I would shed a tear, because it would be so stupid.

I'd much prefer the Illuminati reunited, standing over the broken, battered, and twitching corpse of the Hulk. Then they could have Sentry deal with him like the rest of the garbage, by hauling his carcass into the sun, along with those of the aliens stupid enough to follow him to Earth.

Planet Hulk has proven something important. The world doesn't need a Hulk. The Hulk doesn't need Earth. The world doesn't want a Hulk, either.

Exile him out in space, and be done with it.

[BeastieRunner]

Planet Hulk has proven something important. The world doesn't need a Hulk. The Hulk doesn't need Earth. The world doesn't want a Hulk, either.

Exile him out in space, and be done with it.

Hulk got interesting again when he went out into space. I think it would be cool to leave him as a new cosmic anti-hero. I would love to see Nova and him tangle after their respective "wars" wrap up. More herald fights or perhaps some Negative Zone action would be nice to see as well.

The Hulk has done everything he can on Earth, it's time to conquer space!

[twilight]

I would miss them all.

[Syzygy]

I think Emma is an interesting and somewhat impressive character, but she is a lightweight compared to genius inventors like Reed and Tony, or kings like Namor, Black Bolt (I refuse to call him Blackagar Boltagon), and T'Challa. Doctor Strange is the Sorceror Supreme of the 616 Dimension, which puts him on a whole different level of play. So the closest Emma comes to any of the Illuminati members is Charles Xavier, the Martin Luther King of the mutants. Compared to that, Emma is at best a mid-level player, a team leader.

Before it got retconned, Emma was the inventor of the Mindtap Mechanism, and, more impressively, the Persona Transferrence Gun.

The PTG is a device that holds the key to immortality itself, easily rivaling inventions such as the Negative Zone (Richards), the Time Machine (Doom), the Revivication Chamber (Leader), and other top tier inventions.

Unfortunately, Emma's inventing genius was retconned as the Dark Beast's.

Peace,
Syzygy

[Magneto Rocks]

I wouldn't shed a tear but if they killed six of the most interesting characters in Marvel, including two of it's smartest individuals and team leaders, I'd say they were morons.

[agirlyman]

I wouldn't shed a tear but if they killed six of the most interesting characters in Marvel, including two of it's smartest individuals and team leaders, I'd say they were morons.

Morons got my vote, kill them all!

[dingo]

Th MU would be significantly more boring without them.

Given that there is no way that story could be good enough to remove the possibility of other stories with those characters, it seems like a silly suggestion to me.

[Lord Darkwolf]

just not the one most of you are imagining...

If he comes back to raise hell, doesn't he simply prove they were right to send him away in the first place?!?

I'm more likely to shed a tear if the Illuminati don't spank Hulk's green bottom until it's purple (to match his pants) and send him back into outer-space! Much like a child whose been sent to his room as punishment and tries to sneak out again! I want to see Tony go all Extremis on him..."I said, go to your planet! And stay there until I say you can come back! And no supper for you, either!".

That's what I'm hoping for...







Hulk : Hrrmph .... you know ...I would do that ... I'd go to my planet ...... BUT YOU #%$%ING BLEW IT UP ! HULK SMASH !!!!!!!

[Perry Holley]

Except for maybe Dr. Strange, at this point I honestly wouldn't give a damn about the rest of them buying the eternal celestial dirt nap.

[agirlyman]

Except for maybe Dr. Strange, at this point I honestly wouldn't give a damn about the rest of them buying the eternal celestial dirt nap.

Said the man with the "Jayne" hat.

[Frank]

Actually I think they should have waited for summer of 2008 to have World War Hulk so that everything from The Illuminati to all the Avengers teams from every states could have established themselves, let them enjoy their life for a good whole year. So that when Hulk show up he could do some genuine damage. As it stand, especially the way Tony Stark has been made important with Civil War, I pretty much doubt that ANY of the Illuminatis or any other characters of significances will die or have anything too hurtful happen to them.

[shades of eternity]

Said the man with the "Jayne" hat.

hulk needs a "jayne" hat :)

[Perry Holley]

hulk needs a "jayne" hat :)Wash: "A man walks down the street in that hat, people know he's not afraid of anything."
Jayne: "Damn straight."

[agirlyman]

hulk needs a "jayne" hat :)

LMFAO!!! I can actually picture the Hulk wearing a "Cunning" hat!

[Lunal]

Reed is ok I suppose, and Xavier. But Iron Man, Black Bolt, Dr. Strange - I don't mind if they kick it. Submariner - who cares what happens to him either way?

[niall mc cann]

Reed is ok I suppose, and Xavier. But Iron Man, Black Bolt, Dr. Strange - I don't mind if they kick it. Submariner - who cares what happens to him either way?

Me!

One of my favourite marvel characters.

[Omega Alpha]

Submariner - who cares what happens to him either way?

Oh, come on! Namor is innocent and even was against doing the unethical thing that Reed and the others did.

Man, that sounds strange (no pun intended), doesn't it? :)

[Canemacar]

Iron Man: He needs an ass whoopin' but he's an interesting character right now and has some real potential as a major player and should stay alive(so that Thor can whoop his ass too :D .)

Reed: Meh. Don't care about him and I've never liked the FF. Go ahead and off him so that Doom can get over his Reed fixation.

Namor: Well, SOMEONE is going to have to "comfort" Sue. Let him live.

Xavier: I'd rather see him redeemed as the mutant MLK than killed.

Strange: He's cool. Let him live.

Black Bolt: Let the Hulk survive a full-powered scream to establish a new power level for Jade Jaws and let him off with a slap or two.


Then Hulk needs to go and be a cosmic player for a while, and become an interstellar warlord.

[Shai Hulud]

Iron Man: He needs an ass whoopin' but he's an interesting character right now and has some real potential as a major player and should stay alive(so that Thor can whoop his ass too :D .)

Reed: Meh. Don't care about him and I've never liked the FF. Go ahead and off him so that Doom can get over his Reed fixation.

Namor: Well, SOMEONE is going to have to "comfort" Sue. Let him live.

Xavier: I'd rather see him redeemed as the mutant MLK than killed.

Strange: He's cool. Let him live.

Black Bolt: Let the Hulk survive a full-powered scream to establish a new power level for Jade Jaws and let him off with a slap or two.


Then Hulk needs to go and be a cosmic player for a while, and become an interstellar warlord.


:cool: :cool: :cool: AGREED ON EVERYTHING.

[myslead]

http://www.newsarama.com/WWLA_07/Marvel/mondo/Im_19.jpg

owned.

[Gnarl]

Awsome pic.

The problem is that the Hulk doesn't have much to bring to the table against many of these guys.

Even before the last issue of the Illuminati, Black Bolt and Namor tended to humilliate him physically, and I can see him doing well against Strange without suprising him.

Reed, the depowered Xavier and Stark, yes.

[Pheonix-NoRelation]

Reed is ok I suppose, and Xavier. But Iron Man, Black Bolt, Dr. Strange - I don't mind if they kick it. Submariner - who cares what happens to him either way?

You see, I see it the opposite. Black Bolt and Dr. Strange look to be some of the most interesting characters this year, with Dr. Strange in New Avengers & Black Bolt in Silent War. Namor is getting his own mini and we get to see what happened or what will happen between him and everyone else b/c of his sleeper cells. Iron Man is now in charge of S.H.I.E.L.D. That looks to be very interesting.

Reed is going to be out of the picture for now, what with him and Susan going off to settle their marital problems and with Black Panther and Storm joining the FF. Xavier's still in space until May also.

[NightBird]

REED should die, i dont care if HULK does it or if he has a stroke in the street and falls into the road and gets crushed by a bus, or if he hits his 'big' head on the things butt.

Its simple Reed dead = me happy.

[Shellhead]

If the opinions in this thread reflect the majority of Marvel fans, than it appears that a lot of people hate some of Marvel's main heroes. Maybe Quesada let Millar take things too far in Civil War.

[Pendaran]

If the opinions in this thread reflect the majority of Marvel fans, than it appears that a lot of people hate some of Marvel's main heroes. Maybe Quesada let Millar take things too far in Civil War.

As fun as it is to think such things, if the opinions held in CBR threads reflected the majority of fans, or even an appreciable number of them, Civil War and all its tie ins wouldn't have done the consistently huge numbers they did. Especially Frontline.

And various comic book posters would be able to do better than quote self admitted jokes from Marvel when trying to go on about how true it is that Tony is seen by the company as a supervillain.

There's a reason that when it comes down to it, most comic book companies largely ignore message board type things.

[XPac]

If the opinions in this thread reflect the majority of Marvel fans, than it appears that a lot of people hate some of Marvel's main heroes. Maybe Quesada let Millar take things too far in Civil War.

I think a LOT of people do look at some of Marvel's heroes in a different light... but I also think a lot of people are more interested in those heroes than ever before.

Iron Man stock in the company has shot up tremendously since Civil War... he's probably made more guest appearances than Spidey and Wolverine combined. Do a lot of readers think less of him... probably. But they're also more interested in him now than ever before,

People I suspect are more likely to buy an issue with Iron Man on the cover now, even if it's because they want to see Tony get his butt kicked (such as in the Nova series for example).

[Pendaran]

Do a lot of readers think less of him... probably.

You'll want to amend that to "do a lot of readers on some internet message boards think less of him... probably".

You've no way to know or speak for the inclinations of an industry that has, even in lean times, many hundreds of thousands of readers, essentially based on a fractional to that number of posts from a comic book message board, or some livejournals.

The most you can do is look at sales numbers and note what people buy, trying to determine why they buy it is beyond you. "People want to read about Iron Man because they want to see him get beaten down", is... a view from fans on the internet.

[Silver Nimbus]

I think a LOT of people do look at some of Marvel's heroes in a different light... but I also think a lot of people are more interested in those heroes than ever before.


This is too true. But some of us have gone a different way than others. For me, Civil War has cemented Tony Stark as the preeminent hero of the Marvel Universe, and really cast Captain America down from his previously lofty position. Spider-Man's also dropped a lot of notches in my book, and he wasn't that high to begin with.

Of course, I'm also the guy looking forward to World War Hulk with the hopes that the Hulk will get a beat-down he'll never forget, and hopefully never recover from.

[agirlyman]

http://www.newsarama.com/WWLA_07/Marvel/mondo/Im_19.jpg

owned.

Now that my friends is "Nuff said".

[beetheb]

Now that my friends is "Nuff said".

Nah, if Starks head were in that Helmet, and the neckhole was spewing blood, THAT would be 'nuff said.

[agirlyman]

Nah, if Starks head were in that Helmet, and the neckhole was spewing blood, THAT would be 'nuff said.

Yeah, I also was disappointed that it really wasn't stark in there lol, you can only hope, and pray I guess.:evilsmile

[bd2999]

The whole group really did not like the Hulk decision, but the decision was made by Tony and Reed basicly. The others were either dragged along or refused to get involved.

I think the one that would be missed the most is STrange, even though I dont think Hulk is going to kill anyone. Although I could be wrong. Dr. Strange does protect the Earth from massive mystical threats. If he goes down and Strange has no powerful apprentice the Earth is in deep trouble. Richards is a great asset and would hurt to lose him. I would say the same thing about Iron man in the past but not so much anymore. BB, no one on Earth would care but the Inhumans would not like it. They would be ab it upset I think. Prof. X going down again would probably cause a big stink too.

For me Strange and Black Bolt would be the only ones I would not like to see go down. The yare cool characters in their own right. The others either have run their course or just tick me off in general.

[agirlyman]

The whole group really did not like the Hulk decision, but the decision was made by Tony and Reed basicly. The others were either dragged along or refused to get involved.

BD has spoken, Ok Tony Stark, and Reed Richards must die. Sounds like a plan, ok people let's get it done!

[Hrungr]

Dr. Strange does protect the Earth from massive mystical threats. If he goes down and Strange has no powerful apprentice the Earth is in deep trouble.
Talisman could take over (that would be kinda cool actually). A few years back it was said that she had the potential to be as powerful as Strange.

Richards is a great asset and would hurt to lose him.
His genius would be missed. It would several other big brains stepping up together to fill his big rubber shoes.

I would say the same thing about Iron man in the past but not so much anymore.
Indeed. At this point there are others who could fill his iron boobies... I mean booties :D, and carry on the IM legacy.

BB, no one on Earth would care but the Inhumans would not like it. They would be ab it upset I think.
BB is clearly the most "disposible" of the lot. If any of the Illuminati are going to die, it's him.

Prof. X going down again would probably cause a big stink too.
Since he didn't "vote", he's probably the safest of the lot short of Namor.

[MAK15]

Nah, if Starks head were in that Helmet, and the neckhole was spewing blood, THAT would be 'nuff said.

that'd also spell 'MAX' title

[Frank]

I think a LOT of people do look at some of Marvel's heroes in a different light... but I also think a lot of people are more interested in those heroes than ever before.

Iron Man stock in the company has shot up tremendously since Civil War... he's probably made more guest appearances than Spidey and Wolverine combined. Do a lot of readers think less of him... probably. But they're also more interested in him now than ever before,

People I suspect are more likely to buy an issue with Iron Man on the cover now, even if it's because they want to see Tony get his butt kicked (such as in the Nova series for example).

I call it the Ric Flair concept. :D In the 80s he was the most popular wrestler of his company, everything was focused around him. He was the evil bad guy but he was more entertaining than any other wrestlers so they kept him champ. But the way it was done was that he would rile people so much that they would pay just to see him get beat to a bloody pulp.

I don't know how much people will pay to see Tony gets beaten. But I think he's just a more interesting character that he was before because he's the figurehead of the new map of the Marvel Universe. He's not just a Billionaire playboy with a super-armor anymore. He represents a lot of things. Not only he created this new Marvel but he's also the Top Sheriff in the land as Leader of SHIELD. The sky's the limit.

[XPac]

I call it the Ric Flair concept. :D In the 80s he was the most popular wrestler of his company, everything was focused around him. He was the evil bad guy but he was more entertaining than any other wrestlers so they kept him champ. But the way it was done was that he would rile people so much that they would pay just to see him get beat to a bloody pulp.

I don't know how much people will pay to see Tony gets beaten. But I think he's just a more interesting character that he was before because he's the figurehead of the new map of the Marvel Universe. He's not just a Billionaire playboy with a super-armor anymore. He represents a lot of things. Not only he created this new Marvel but he's also the Top Sheriff in the land as Leader of SHIELD. The sky's the limit.

Yeah... I think a popular wrestling heel such as Ric Flair is an excellent comparrison.

You want a reaction... cheering or booing, either works. As long as they're eliciting a strong emotional response. And I think Tony suceeds in doing that.

And I think other writers to a degree will milk that. He's showing up in Nova for example... you can already hear plenty of Nova fans rumbling about a throwdown there and Tony and Nova haven't even interated with each other in years. We can't forget about Spidey and Tony. You can kind of see the She-Hulk/Iron Man conflict building as well. And Ms. Marvel already decked Tony.

I think Iron Man will end up with more cross overs than Spidey and Wolverine combined in the next few months. He's got heat with a lot of readers, and I think other writers will definately want to milk that.

[Mike Smash!]

The Hulk is coming home and he's pissed off. As we saw in the preview pages, one of the first people he takes his anger out on is Blackbolt of the Inhumans, a member of the Illuminati.

Other Illuminati members, Professor X, Reed Richards, Iron Man, Namor and others can probably expect a visit from the Hulk themselves.

The question is... Whose side are you on? Are you rooting for the Hulk to smash the people who shot him into space? Or are you rooting for the Illuminati and other Marvel heroes that are going to be getting in the Hulk's way?

[Mike Smash!]

I've been peeved at Tony Stark and Reed Richards for a while now, especially during Civil War. From them turning a dead friend into a cloned zombie weapon to practically bragging about how people don't have civil rights in the Negative Zone to hiring psychopaths like Bullseye and Norman Osborn...

...well, I'd really like to see them get their asses handed to them.

I just have the added pleasure of knowing that it'll be my favorite character doing the job.

Go Hulk Go!

[mike627]

The Illuminati will fall to The Hulk and he will be given Manhattan by the UN!:D

[xarathos]

I think 'World War Speedball' would of sounded much cooler. Oh well.

[Arilou]

Why can't we all just get along?

Seriously, I'm with.... Nextwave. Yeah. Nextwave.

[StoneGold]

I dunno, I wasn't too pissed when Doc Strange sent Hulk to the Crossroads. Granted, I'm not sure I was actually born when that story was written. Let's see, Jarella was created in '71... definitely not.

[Mike Smash!]

I dunno, I wasn't too pissed when Doc Strange sent Hulk to the Crossroads. Granted, I'm not sure I was actually born when that story was written. Let's see, Jarella was created in '71... definitely not.Hulk was sent to the Crossroads in the mid-1980s. So you must have been alive for that.

When he was banished, he was fighting a large group of Marvel heroes, including Spider-Man, in his black costume.

Also, at the time, the Hulk was totally mindless, mute, violent and a vicious killer because of mental tampering under the influence of the villain, Nightmare.

When the Illuminati shot Hulk into space, he was intelligent and living in remote Alaska, where he was bothering no one and after he went out of his way to save SHIELD's ass from a problem that they created themselves.

The two situations aren't really comparable.

[Citizen V]

Im with the Hulk,this is as far as im willing to go.

[Kevinroc]

I'm with The Hulk. Go get 'em, Hulk.

[Brian M.]

I'm with the Illuminati.

The was too dangerous. Yes I know I'll be bombarded with millions of examples of other superheros who just as dangerous or atleast have done a fraction of what the Hulk has done, I know. The point is though that they had a solution to keep people safe from the Hulk and to relatively keep the Hulk happy by sending him to what should have been a peaceful planet.

Things went wrong, the Hulk got sent to another planet, that's not the fault of the Illuminati.

[Joe Acro]

I'm only with the Hulk if he doesn't prove them right. So, for now, I'll go with Undecided.


--
The poll has four options.

[mike627]

I'm with the Illuminati.

The was too dangerous. Yes I know I'll be bombarded with millions of examples of other superheros who just as dangerous or atleast have done a fraction of what the Hulk has done, I know. The point is though that they had a solution to keep people safe from the Hulk and to relatively keep the Hulk happy by sending him to what should have been a peaceful planet.

Things went wrong, the Hulk got sent to another planet, that's not the fault of the Illuminati.The arrogance that they showed when they made this decision is what gets me,Namor was right he will come back and kill them all.:evilsmile

[MaxofSteel]

I'm down with the Hulk.

Commence the smashing suckas!

[Brian M.]

The arrogance that they showed when they made this decision is what gets me,Namor was right he will come back and kill them all.:evilsmile


If the Hulk comes back and smashes everything doesn't that prove them right? Yea it's arrogant for them to make that call but are they not right?

[Will.S]

I'm pretty torn here, on one hand the Illuminati did a pretty underhanded thing but on the other Hulk is one of the most random creatures on Marvel earth so that makes him unpredictable.

Plus the Illuminati's actions weren't intended to harm him but then again they also didn't forsee him landing in Sakaar and having the ship blow up. I'm leaning more towards the Illuminati but I'm a sucker for cool hero vs hero battles.

[xakko]

If the Hulk comes back and smashes everything doesn't that prove them right? Yea it's arrogant for them to make that call but are they not right?

if the Hulk comes back and smashes everything, it's totally their fault.

the Hulk is generally harmless unless disturbed. their plan to jettison him into space disturbed him. ergo, Hulk smash. it's the logical progression.

the "futurist" Tony Stark should have predicted such an obvious result. but then, he wasn't able to figure out he would lose control of that the freak of science clone

[Sparda]

Reed made the speech on the video, so he's just as f*cked as Tony. I'm with the Hulk as well, Tony and his posse will have it served to him.

Captain America may have had a hell of a time and struggled and surrendered in the end but Hulk sure is no french (no offence to french) and the Hulk sure as hell is not going underground like cap did.

I wanna see Hulk smash everyone especially those overrated mutants and piss X-fans everywhere :evilsmile

[Brian M.]

Reed made the speech on the video, so he's just as f*cked as Tony. I'm with the Hulk as well, Tony and his posse will have it served to him.

Captain America may have had a hell of a time and struggled and surrendered in the end but Hulk sure is no french (no offence to french) and the Hulk sure as hell is not going underground like cap did.

I wanna see Hulk smash everyone especially those overrated mutants and piss X-fans everywhere :evilsmile

Boy your a bitter kid, why would you wanna piss X-Fans off? What have they done to you?

[drwho]

So every one that voted for Hulk are pro mass murderer? Wow, after what Hulk did they had every right to send him away.

[Schutzy86]

The Hulk has every right to smash in this situation, I agree that they knew full well what the hulk can do when provoked. They took it a step too far launching him to another planet at the whim of a small group of people, and I for one will enjoy watching high and mighty Tony Stark getting his ass beat by the black sheep of the avengers that he could never seem to get rid of.

[Floyd The Barber]

I would love to see Hulk destroy the Illuminati. Of course we all know how this is going to end. It will culminate to a final battle where just as Hulk is about to defeat the Illuminati, he will raise his teary green eyes to the sky in realization that our great nation does in fact need an elitist group of bigots and hypocrites making all of our decisions for us in order to enrich and protect all of our peon lives. It will be a fourteen page fold-out one panel spread with the shortest verse in the Marvel bible : "Hulk wept." But the best part will be the final page : Tony Stark snorting cocaine through a platinum straw while being "serviced" by several prostitutes while telling us all "the best is yet to come".

[CaptainCanada]

I'm with the Illuminati; especially if Hulk leads an alien army to attack Earth and fight a whole bunch of people who didn't do anything to him.

[Hrungr]

A cold, calculating Hulk on a revenge-driven bender to tear through pretty much the entire MU.

C'mon... what's not to love? :)

Admittedly, the rationale for his going back (as much as we know so far) is arguably questionable. Clearly he would have not gone back if the ship hadn't exploded and we don't even know why it exploded. If the Illuminati had some hand in it, fine. But it seems just as likely that Miek and/or the Brood had some hand in it. I do believe it was way too convenient to have been an accident.

That said, with the Hulk being intelligent for about the last twenty years or so and the Vegas incident really wasn't his fault, the decision to exile him then seems more than a little dubious. Plus the fact that the Illuminati used him first to save the world before shipping him off into space was really, really low. The Hulk has a right to be mad over that.

But let's face it, we don't know anything about how far the Hulk is prepared to go in getting to the Illuminati yet. Will he be so enraged that he will kill anyone who comes between him and them? Will he be willing to go and hurt those closest to the Illuminati to make them suffer? Is there some greater plan in the works (as WWH is part 2 of a 3 part storyline)?

[Omega Alpha]

I'm with the Hulk. I mean, who isn't? Who doesn't want some smashing? If you don't, then you deserve to be smashed too. Go, Hulk, go! :D

[nuclearman]

I'm with the hulk ... SMASH us puny humans!!

[mattx110]

I know one person who probably would. Banner. Given that if he kills people who were his friends, he just proves them right for shooting him off into space in the first place. Silly ole Hulk.

eh, it doesn't work like that.
you don't provoke something with the potential to be an insane monster, and then blame it on the poor guy provoked into attacking.

and i don't think dr. strange should be killed. i like him, and he hasn't had a defining moment that is entirely his in the spotlight.
i guess he's had a couple (there is no more dr. strange, there is only strange), but nothing recent enough or big enough for people now to care about it.

reed has had the negative zone, and staring down galactus with an ultimate anihilator, professor x has had a few love interests and major fights with magneto, and heck onslaught was his fault.

tony had armor wars and avengers stuff, and hostile take-overs, fights with dr. droom.
dr. strange has morgan le fey sometimes when she's not fighting spiderwoman or the avengers, and dormammu/lillin but both those involves spiderman or ghost rider or morbius.
even his big dr. strange/dr. doom story was more focused on doom.

he needs something realy defining to happen that affects the MU before they can kill him.
plus i like him, and marcos is a great artist.

[Brian "Vash" Ashby]

Marvel is so crappy right now i wouldnt mind if Hulk killed everyone and then like went to some alternative universe of like 616 where its just starting so marvel wouldnt have so many problems

yeah

[jackolover]

I'm with the Illuminati.

The was too dangerous. Yes I know I'll be bombarded with millions of examples of other superheros who just as dangerous or atleast have done a fraction of what the Hulk has done, I know. The point is though that they had a solution to keep people safe from the Hulk and to relatively keep the Hulk happy by sending him to what should have been a peaceful planet.

Things went wrong, the Hulk got sent to another planet, that's not the fault of the Illuminati.

The Hulks banishment, was the first stage of the CW. If Cap convinced Banner to side with him, the CW would have been lost, and the escalation would have been enormous. The Illuminati had to take the Hulk out of the equation.

Now that the Hulk is back, the Initiative will have to suffer the consequences. I don't know if the Initiative will survive, while the heros are all massing to resist the Hulks assembling team. It's a big open ended conflict, with big unknown out comes.

As I am Pro-reg, I have to go with Tony's side. If the superhumans want to maintain autonomy with the government, they have to try and take down the hulk. Sentry and Captain Marvel will have to be main players, as well as any Hulk buster tech that will still work on Banner. This looks to be huge, when it gets started.

Edit : And if you look at the Initiative, all it was, was a preparation for World War Hulk. Tony positioned himself for the inevitable return of Banner. If Tony's such a futurust, he is gonna know nobody disappears for ever. Everybody makes a reappearance.

[Floyd The Barber]

I don't think sales in comics are always a good indicator of how fans enjoyed a series or story. Yes I bought all issues of Civil War and some Frontline but I assure you if I'd have known it was going to end (non-end?) the way it did I would have not wasted my time or money. Many people I've spoke with feel the same way. But yet we supported it financially out of curiousity. I think sales of related books 6-months to a year from now will be a much better indicator. For instance I was thinking of picking up Cap, Iron Man and Avengers after Civil War till I read the ending. Now I couldn't be interested in any of those. I've never liked the idea of the Avengers (or any superheroes) as "Super-cops", Cap's "dead" and I downright hate Iron Man now. One local shop in my area still has 1st print copies of Cap #25 nearly a month after it's been released sitting next to copies of Civil War: The Return (Who would have thought the return of Cap Marvel would have been so dismal?). Iron Man #15 is sold out from diamond, but how long do you think that'll last? Is anyone really biting their nails waiting for the Fallen Son stuff?

Anyway I'd hate to see anything happen to Xavier or Doc Strange. The rest can eat feces and expire, so someone can find the real Reed and Tony who have obviously been in stasis somewhere for quite sometime.

[StoneGold]

The two situations aren't really comparable.

He had also recently shredded a good chunk of Las Vegas over in FF

[Pendaran]

The Hulks banishment, was the first stage of the CW. If Cap convinced Banner to side with him, the CW would have been lost, and the escalation would have been enormous. The Illuminati had to take the Hulk out of the equation.


Unless they retcon it in the upcoming prologue, that really had nothing to do with the discussed motivation in comics, which was the people dying thing.

He had also recently shredded a good chunk of Las Vegas over in FF

And LA some years before that.

[bodie_3_7_ci5]

I can't wait to see Tony's face when the Hulk confronts the smug son of a b*tch. I'm with Hulk all the way.

[Karl J Barnes]

I choose Undecided. Not that I can't see both sides of the arguement,though I am leaning more in the Hulk's favor, I just want a good story.

I mean, I get why Hulk would want revenge. He's pretty much been used and abused for years by his "friends". I'm of the mind that Hulk, now married/has a love, no longer sees Earth as his planet. He may feel that he is right to treat the people/heroes of Earth as any other planet/people's worthy of conquering. Sure, the betrayals play a part of it(be hus motivation), but I feel that he sees himself a leader of HIS people and that Earth is just as good a place to conquer as anywhere else.

[Karl J Barnes]

I can't wait to see Tony's face when the Hulk confronts the smug son of a b*tch. I'm with Hulk all the way.

Hulk: Hey...Tony. Nice to see you.

Tony: Um...let me explain...

Hulk: Yeah, you can explain all you want...AFTER I peel you like a grape.

Tony:.....

Hulk:*sniffs the air* Tony, I think that I smell more than fear in the air.I think that your iron jammies need a changing. Here, let Dr. Hulk change your diapies.

[Sparda]

Boy your a bitter kid, why would you wanna piss X-Fans off? What have they done to you?
I envy them for having cool mutant powers and take the stryker route :(

Too bad the New Avenger's are not gonna join Hulk if it was'nt for Strange on the team. If not, you'll see Cage along with spidey being at Hulk side.

What I'm wondering right now, is the hulk going to fight Wolverine twice? One in WWH X-Men obviously but fight again when Hulk fight's New Avengers? Some how I feel Marvel will do this in the name of making more money.

[trojanrabbit]

When the Hulkcomes back to wreck his vengence on the Illuminati (and the rest of the 616 world for that matter) this just justifys their decision to send the Hulk away in the first place. I'm totally on side with the Illuminati.

[streator]

i'm not really on either side. i decided to pass on world war hulk.

[Mike Smash!]

I'm with the Illuminati; especially if Hulk leads an alien army to attack Earth and fight a whole bunch of people who didn't do anything to him.Except for hound and manipulate and provoke him for years.

If you notice most Hulk stories usually involve him not bothering anyone until someone messes with him and sends him on a rampage.

[Superheroic]

Totally with the Hulk.

Revenge is a dished best served with a Steaming Pile of Gamma Radiation!

[shaunyc56]

If it means Tony Stark and Marvel U America gets a huge case of Gamma powered ass whup, I'm all for the Hulk.

[Ender]

I know this may sound a little antiquated in the face of the new nearly facist MU. Bruce Banner is an American citizen denied due process. What the Illumuinati did was huge. Not only did they truly lack the moral authority they didn't even have the legal power to eject an American citizen into space. They were operating under no law that I know of.

Hulk now has the moral authority in my book to seek revenge. But not on the world. And I have seen no indication that the Hulk himself is planning to hurt and murder millions en masse. If anything I think he's gonna have trouble with his general being overzealous. That's the story of Hulks life. It rarely really his fault as has been noted in previous posts.

[shaunyc56]

I know this may sound a little antiquated in the face of the new nearly facist MU. Bruce Banner is an American citizen denied due process. What the Illumuinati did was huge. Not only did they truly lack the moral authority they didn't even have the legal power to eject an American citizen into space. They were operating under no law that I know of.

Hulk now has the moral authority in my book to seek revenge. But not on the world. And I have seen no indication that the Hulk himself is planning to hurt and murder millions en masse. If anything I think he's gonna have trouble with his general being overzealous. That's the story of Hulks life. It rarely really his fault as has been noted in previous posts.



Exactly, MU america now has carte blanche to discriminate, super humans are the new beat down minority. Registration is discrimination, what happened to Hulk is deplorable, and now MU america will reap what it has sown.

[Brian M.]

Exactly, MU america now has carte blanche to discriminate, super humans are the new beat down minority. Registration is discrimination, what happened to Hulk is deplorable, and now MU america will reap what it has sown.

How is offering to train them, pay them a decent amount "beating down" a minority?

Maybe if the Hulk had better control of himself he wouldn't have killed so many people over the years.

I think some of you folks have a warped sense of what facism and discrimination really is.

[Hrungr]

Maybe if the Hulk had better control of himself he wouldn't have killed so many people over the years.

The Hulk's anger has always been his bane (as well as boon), but you make it sound like he's some indiscriminate killer. You'd have to back that up with something.

And I find it a tad hypocritical when blatant killers like Wolverine get invited to the Avengers and can remain as an X-Man. The same guy who has repeatedly loses control, nearly killing several teammates over the years? How many innocents paid the price in "Enemy of the State"? Hell, aren't the X-Men trying to reform Sabertooth... again? Isn't Mystique an X-Man now? Cap willing to work with the Punisher?

[Brian M.]

The Hulk's anger has always been his bane (as well as boon), but you make it sound like he's some indiscriminate killer. You'd have to back that up with something.

And I find it a tad hypocritical when blatant killers like Wolverine get invited to the Avengers and can remain as an X-Man. The same guy who has repeatedly loses control, nearly killing several teammates over the years? How many innocents paid the price in "Enemy of the State"? Hell, aren't the X-Men trying to reform Sabertooth... again? Isn't Mystique an X-Man now? Cap willing to work with the Punisher?

I don't have to back up the Hulk killing innocents with anything. It's in the issues. I never said it wasn't wrong for the X-Men to have them either. Wolverine is a prime example. But you can't really use 'Enemy of the State' as an example considering he was being mind-controlled. When was the last time Hulk killed people under the control of someone else?

Also Sabertooth isn't being reformed, he's currently being controlled by little nano-sentinels. Also as of the last issue they froze him in a time-stasis field on Cable's Providence Island.

As for Mystique...yea the whole thing she did to Banshee that is now being seemingly brushed under the rug is crap. i'm surpised the writers haven't brought that up.

If you shot Wolverine/Sabertooth/Mystique into space...you'd hear no complaints from me. The ends justify the means.

[Sam T.]

You would have to make this poll...I'm with the Hulk!!

[Enterprise E]

Right now, given what has happened in Civil War and Reed Richards' and Tony Stark's parts in it, I have to say that I'm with Hulk on this one. Hulk Smash puny Iron Jerk!

[Hrungr]

I don't have to back up the Hulk killing innocents with anything. It's in the issues.

Which issues?

Remember the whole "Ricky Myers" affair? That was supposed to be the first time the Hulk had killed an innocent life and Bruce nearly went insane over it. And that ended up being a trick in the end.

I believe it was in She-Hulk where it was suggested that SHIELD would typically clear people out of his path if he was on a major rampage. I believe the Las Vegas incident was the first time that casualties were reported from a rampage. And that was because he went insane after being hit by a gamma bomb. A gamma bomb he was helping Shield dismantle.

I never said it wasn't wrong for the X-Men to have them either. Wolverine is a prime example. But you can't really use 'Enemy of the State' as an example considering he was being mind-controlled.

Exactly. There were other, "mitigating factors" at work, as is usually the case with the "misunderstood" Hulk. However, that does not excuse the times he's gutted his own teammates (Spidey being the latest during a mere training exercise no less) and slices and dices bad guys without batting an eye.

The Hulk, even the Savage Hulk, pulled his punches enough not to kill anyone (from street levellers to herald-types) unless that was his intention (very, very rarely).

When was the last time Hulk killed people under the control of someone else?

Show me anytime the Hulk has killed an innocent "on screen" when there wasn't a "mitigating factor".

Also Sabertooth isn't being reformed, he's currently being controlled by little nano-sentinels. Also as of the last issue they froze him in a time-stasis field on Cable's Providence Island.

Fair enough. I don't read the X-Men anymore, but he seemed to be a member of the group for some reason.

As for Mystique...yea the whole thing she did to Banshee that is now being seemingly brushed under the rug is crap. i'm surpised the writers haven't brought that up.

If you shot Wolverine/Sabertooth/Mystique into space...you'd hear no complaints from me. The ends justify the means.

And that's fine.

But I want to point out again that the Hulk has been intelligent for most of the last 20 years and for the bulk of it has either been a force for good (with the Pantheon or the Defenders) or just wanted be left alone - but still hounded by the villian du jours and the government for their own less-than-laudible ends.

If they had shot him off into space when he was a mindless monster (like when he was separated from Banner), that would be more understandable. But as you can see, he hasn't been that way for years and years now.

[Camron Amaya]

I'd like nothing more then to see those nerds smashed. And die. And stay dead. Seriosly. I never liked the Fantastic Four, they always seemed corny, so Mr. Fantastic dying, and staying dead forever would just be great. It won't happen but it would be great.

So yay go Hulk, crush, kill, destroy, STRESS!

[JaeYu1]

I hope the Hulk smashes all their puny candy-asses! And then turn Black Bolt into a hood ornament for the Hulk-Mobile. Turn Dr. Strange into a garden gnome. Turn Stark's armored head into a toilet bowel and Reed Richards into a reusable prophylactic... HULK WILL SMASH ALL... UNGAWAH!!!

[jackolover]

I know this may sound a little antiquated in the face of the new nearly facist MU. Bruce Banner is an American citizen denied due process. What the Illumuinati did was huge. Not only did they truly lack the moral authority they didn't even have the legal power to eject an American citizen into space. They were operating under no law that I know of.

Hulk now has the moral authority in my book to seek revenge. But not on the world. And I have seen no indication that the Hulk himself is planning to hurt and murder millions en masse. If anything I think he's gonna have trouble with his general being overzealous. That's the story of Hulks life. It rarely really his fault as has been noted in previous posts.

Applying common law to superhumans is like accomadating to Terrorists, and we have seen how the SHRA applies to SHs. The Negative Zone, and capekiller round-ups.

The human population isn't worried about applying common law to what happens between the Hulk and the Illuminati, because the SH's have always sorted themselves out privately, and the humans don't interfere. The Hulk will address the Illuminati personally, and the Illuminati will try to explain their reasons why they took the steps they took, in sending Hulk off-earth

[JaeYu1]

My repost from World War Hulk: Whose Side Are YOU On?

"I hope the Hulk smashes all their puny candy-asses! And then turn Black Bolt into a hood ornament for the Hulk-Mobile. Turn Dr. Strange into a garden gnome. Turn Stark's armored head into a toilet bowel and Reed Richards into a reusable prophylactic... HULK WILL SMASH ALL... UNGAWAH!!!"

[Mike Smash!]

Exactly, MU america now has carte blanche to discriminate, super humans are the new beat down minority. Registration is discrimination, what happened to Hulk is deplorable, and now MU america will reap what it has sown.

How is offering to train them, pay them a decent amount "beating down" a minority?

Well tossing people into another dimension where they don't have rights is one way. Preemptively going after Luke Cage even after he didn't break the law is another. Attacking Cap before the law is even on the books is three.

Maybe if the Hulk had better control of himself he wouldn't have killed so many people over the years.

That's arguable at best. But I imagine that the crossfire or collateral deaths surrounding the Avengers battling Ultron or Kang in New York City or the FF duking it out with the minions of the Mole Man have caused considerable death if we're going to force nasty realism on these battles.

Hulk, at the very least, does alot less damage in the middle of major cities than the superteams do in his stories. Hell, most of classic rampges mostly took place in the desert and even the city fights usually started after someone attacked him.

I think some of you folks have a warped sense of what facism and discrimination really is.

I'm someone who could support the Super Human Registration Act, if and only if it wasn't so clear that the Marvel Universe U.S. Government wasn't so corrupt and willing to shuck aside civil rights and the law on a whim, preemptively attack people who hadn't broken the law (like Luke Cage and Captain America), who hadn't cloned one of their dead friends into a zombie weapon, who hadn't practically bragged about how people had no rights in the Negative Zone, or hiring sociopaths and murderers like Norman Osborn and siccing them on the ambassador of a sovereign nation to build the case for the SHRA... and their case for sending the Hulk to a remote place where he couldn't hurt anyone would be stronger if he WASN'T ALREADY DOING HIMSELF THAT IN ALASKA!

I totally understand why I would not want totally unregulated and self-appointed freelance cops in the world, particularly with the power to lift mountains, but the Avengers -- if you want to force stark realism on the Marvel Universe -- have caused at least as much civilian deaths as the Hulk does. At least when trouble comes looking for the Hulk, he's usually in the boondocks or the desert rather than in the middle of one of the most crowded metropolitan areas on Earth.

Stop lying to the Hulk, attacking him unprovoked, manipulating him, tricking him, hounding him and persecuting him and things wouldn't get destroyed. Maybe then he'd settle somewhere like the Savage Land and leave people the hell alone.

[Pendaran]

Show me anytime the Hulk has killed an innocent "on screen" when there wasn't a "mitigating factor".


Dude went on a rampage in Hulk 400 when he went to go kill the Leader, causing an explosion that killed the equivalent of an innocent bystander and left Marlo braindead for a while due to interrupting a process Rick begged him not to. Even the Hulk acknowledged that was all him at the end of it in a "what have I done?" moment.

There's beyond that Bendis' retcon in NA Illuminati where no one in a room of full of people that knew him best bothered to disagree with that innocent people die in his rampages as a general thing. Including Namor, who disagrees with people for sheer contrarian sport.

Hell, most of classic rampges mostly took place in the desert and even the city fights usually started after someone attacked him.

And the time he trashed a bunch of LA as a calculated threat occured largely because he dared the army to attack him after he convinced them he was responsible for various major crimes (which see, that in and of itself was noble, not realizing the army will in fact then attack you, and threatening them that if they do it again, he'll start destroying cities), then decided to be seriously offended that they'd take him up on it for some reason, and take it out on the city of Los Angeles, throwing tram cars full of people around and the like.

if you want to force stark realism on the Marvel Universe -- have caused at least as much civilian deaths as the Hulk does.

Until they get that kind of retcon slapped on them, so far that's only been applied to the Hulk as far as being noted as a specifically ongoing problem according to the people with some of the closest familiarity with the guy.

Stop lying to the Hulk, attacking him unprovoked, manipulating him, tricking him, hounding him and persecuting him and things wouldn't get destroyed.

He once went on a rampage in New York because he was angry that Captain America replaced him in the Avengers. Banner turned himself back into the Hulk, and you know, went on more rampages in the future, when he could have been cured, because he was jealous of Doc Samson. For the heinous crime of wanting him to not rampage across a city, he grabbed a random woman off the street and threatened to kill her unless Thor did what he said. It seems a bit simplistic to say that's all everyone else's fault. He's done enough things of a questionable nature that no one should really expect that for example, the woman he threatened to rip apart is going to feel safe because "oh, well, he's in Alaska now". A guy with clinically diagnosed, severe to put it mildly mental disorders and personalities in his head that have said out loud when in control of his body, that they want to do things like exterminate the human race (and some of the other personalities in there haven't exactly been saints themselves), and having the power to actually do so, that has been stated to the effect of that his rampages generally get people killed.. it's a bit facile and ultimately irresponsible to say that everyone should just leave him alone and hope for the best.

Which is certainly a case for why by contrast, the Sentry shouldn't be handled with such niceties, given that he too could destroy the planet, and is himself, if not clinically insane, then he can see the land of clinically insane without a telescope, but the Sentry has demonstrated that nothing anyone does can actually affect him ever at this point, and people have tried, from Strange's magic, delving into what he felt were the darkest of his arts, to a guy who's powers were destroying the universe banishing him to the microverse, on down, so the world is a bit screwed in his case, and by a bit, the world is just screwed. Hell, even the Hulk was being casually tortured to death by the Void in the Sentry's first mini. The world gets by on the Sentry having the willpower of cheese, or the Sentry having previously made himself forget he existed. The Hulk by contrast has shown from various times where, for instance, other heroes have spared his life or saved him from something that was going to kill him, he seems to be within the range of things where one can at least try to do something to or at and have it take for a while. Which makes it basically seem like the arguement is almost that if they wanted to stop the Hulk's rampages from killing anymore people, they should have just killed him, set something up to do so again if he regenerates into a decrepit, motionless form decades later ala the Maestro, and are being screwed because unlike the US military proper, they wanted to try and nonlethally mitigate the problem.

Then again, even the Sentry lacks in commentary that his activities routinely get innocent people killed.

[CMBMOOL]

I'm with the Hulk within World War Hulk, I mean the ending to Civil War was just to easy to endure.

I would like the Hulk to remind the Illuminati members of their TRUE place within the Marvel Universe and knock them down a peg or two. :evilsmile

[DoctorDoom]

No one's side. I just want to see nice drama, tons of cool action, and awesome fight scenes.

[Nik Hasta]

I'm with Hulk to an extent.

I like Black Bolt too much to wish him any harm but I think it's definetely coming his way.

I'd love for Tony and Reed to be brutalised beyond anything we've seen before.

With regards to the Sentry thing, since Sentry has this calming effect on the Hulk, he would be the ideal person to take responsibility for him. He's strong enough to control him and having less pressure, like the stuff CLOC puts on him, would do him good.

[cable guy]

With the Hulk all the way!

[Niro]

I jus want the hulk to smash iron man into a iron can

[Silliw 2]

I agree with Pendaran and UTVol8102.

Get rid of Hulk, he's a meanie.

Marvel should just eliminate death from their comics all together. Actually, no more violence at all. It's just mean.

I say, have Hulk come back and organize a peaceful protest. Then, when the Illuminati blast him back into space, all of his supporters can blog about it!

[Reptisaurus!]

Kind of depends on how monstrous the Hulk is this week.

[Erik Lehnsherr]

I hope he crushes everyone not named Dr. Strange.

[scottv]

I am undecided only because I can see both sides. Hulk always trashes everything when he gets mad but how can you justify sending him in space for that. i don't know

[moebius]

Hmmm...side with a bunch of fascists, or with an uncontrollable, unstable killing machine?

I'm pretty sure I'll sit this one out in a bomb shelter and hope they kill one another.

[Magneto Rocks]

I'm still 90% certain most of those who picked Hulk are STILL convinced he's the Second Coming of Cap, despite the fact most anti-reggers in the universe will oppose him to the same degree as pro-reggers. :rolleyes:

[Kevinroc]

I'm still 90% certain most of those who picked Hulk are STILL convinced he's the Second Coming of Cap, despite the fact most anti-reggers in the universe will oppose him to the same degree as pro-reggers. :rolleyes:

I didn't vote for Hulk because I thought he was the 2nd coming of Cap.

But I do believe a number of people are voting for Hulk because they believe The Illuminati should get some punishment for their actions in Civil War/ Silent War/ what have you and that this has nothing to do with The Hulk himself.

But I voted for The Hulk because what they did to him was pretty messed up.

[Magneto Rocks]

I didn't vote for Hulk because I thought he was the 2nd coming of Cap.

But I do believe a number of people are voting for Hulk because they believe The Illuminati should get some punishment for their actions in Civil War/ Silent War/ what have you and that this has nothing to do with The Hulk himself.

But I voted for The Hulk because what they did to him was pretty messed up.

I disagree about messed up but you, Kevinroc, I believe because you're a Hulk fan. People now seem to go in their minds though "Illuminati = Pro-Reg. Hulk = Anti-reg." Which is of course ridiculous since if Cap was alive he'd be leading the charge against the Green Goliath.

[Kevinroc]

I disagree about messed up but you, Kevinroc, I believe because you're a Hulk fan. People now seem to go in their minds though "Illuminati = Pro-Reg. Hulk = Anti-reg." Which is of course ridiculous since if Cap was alive he'd be leading the charge against the Green Goliath.

I think a number of people believe this to be karma. The Illuminati did bad things, and now bad things will happen to them. Some people don't actually care who beats up Iron Man, just so long as somebody does so.

But I do think you underestimate how sympathetic many readers are to Hulk's plight.

(So there are some that combine The Hulk's plight with how bad The Illuminati have been acting lately.)

[Magneto Rocks]

I don't think anything that was done to Hulk can justify the invasion of Manhattan, no. Nor do declare war on Earth to get at 6 heroes.

[Kevinroc]

I don't think anything that was done to Hulk can justify the invasion of Manhattan, no. Nor do declare war on Earth to get at 6 heroes.

5 Heroes. Well, really just 4.

And The Illuminati invaded the Skrull homeworld for less than what Hulk is actually attacking Earth over.

The heroes stopped the Skrulls from destroying Earth. Hulk didn't stop the destruction of Sakaar.

(Edit: Yes, I know The Illuminati were threatening to do worse if The Skrulls came back. They wanted to put the fear of Earth into The Skrulls. According to Bendis, Black Bolt did indeed kill many of those Skrulls on that ship. The point is that if The Illuminati survived an attack that destroyed Earth, they would be doing the same thing Hulk is doing now.)

[Mike Smash!]

Let's see what the Hulk actually does before we judge it. If he's coming to Manhattan, it means he's going after Tony or Reed.

And I'm not supporting Hulk because he's anti-reg. He's not. The SHRA is probably completely irrelevant to him. With SHRA in place, he hounded and harrassed by humanity. Without it, same thing.

He likely doesn't give a crap either. He's just mad at the people who exiled him and then inadvertantly killed his wife, unborn child, subjects, and planet just after he'd finally found happiness and was putting his anger aside.

It's very possible that they had the ship rigged to explode so that Hulk couldn't use it to come back to Earth. It's also possible that Miek and the Brood rigged it to explode, but underestimated the damage it would do.

But in Hulk's mind, this isn't about SHRA, it's about revenge. He believes they ripped everything he loved away from him, just as he'd finally found contentment.

Me? I'm rooting for Hulk because (1) he's my favorite character in Marvel and (2) I think Tony, Reed and the gang have acted reprehensibly for the last year and need to get their asses kicked badly.

[BatKnight89]

Hulk needs to just kick everyone's ass. The Illuminati deserve what they get, the self righteous jerks.

Total snobs. I hope Bruce gives Tony Stark a good kick. It really bothered me how they made Ironman into a total jerk. I always liked Ironman, but I don't like what they did to him, and the civil War thing was dumb, I'm going to act like none of it happened.

Go HULK!:evilsmile

[InfinityCorp]

The Hulks banishment, was the first stage of the CW. If Cap convinced Banner to side with him, the CW would have been lost, and the escalation would have been enormous. The Illuminati had to take the Hulk out of the equation.


I believe that this is absolutely correct.

Unless they retcon it in the upcoming prologue, that really had nothing to do with the discussed motivation in comics, which was the people dying thing.


No, as I have pointed out, and followed up with pictures of exact frames from comic books. Stark, after being pushed by Maria Hill, initiates the process with the Illuminati to have the Hulk removed. Maria Hill threatens that the government, already in the process of pushing registration, are looking for things to blame the "capes" for. We all know Tony is a smart guy, and there is no question, as Jackolover pointed out, if The Hulk was Anti-Reg things had a much greater potential to go the other way.

[Magneto Rocks]

Let's see what the Hulk actually does before we judge it. If he's coming to Manhattan, it means he's going after Tony or Reed.

And I'm not supporting Hulk because he's anti-reg. He's not. The SHRA is probably completely irrelevant to him. With SHRA in place, he hounded and harrassed by humanity. Without it, same thing.

I know, but it seems undeniable many people just assume he's anti-reg.

But in Hulk's mind, this isn't about SHRA, it's about revenge. He believes they ripped everything he loved away from him, just as he'd finally found contentment.

Yup. Many fans seem to find it about revenge as well- their people lost the war ergo they want the winners crushed, even if basically everyone on the losing side would have supported the winners in this.

[Pendaran]

No, as I have pointed out, and followed up with pictures of exact frames from comic books. Stark, after being pushed by Maria Hill, initiates the process with the Illuminati to have the Hulk removed. Maria Hill threatens that the government, already in the process of pushing registration, are looking for things to blame the "capes" for. We all know Tony is a smart guy, and there is no question, as Jackolover pointed out, if The Hulk was Anti-Reg things had a much greater potential to go the other way.

And as you were responded with then, the actual private conversation he has, in exact frames from comic books, in the exact same comic, pages later, has Tony and the others discussing their motivations for doing so. It's in fact right on the next page. Registration is not brought up once, nor the concept of the government looking to blame them for what the Hulk does. /When the actual people doing the exiling talk about why they are doing it/ with each other, they do not talk about the things you are talking about. They talk about the death bit.

You can argue that you believe then they were all lying to each other in a private meeting with no one else around but themselves, but it doesn't change what they said on the matter when the topic of why they were doing this came up. A single line from Maria Hill doesn't make the next page in the comic vanish into thin air for me, nor make me able to find the subtitles on it that go "we're actually talking about registration here, not dead people".

So, until they do retcon that as having been the motivation, I'm fine with my view that when the guys who actually did this got together, sat down, and said why they wanted to in dialogue, the things they actually said, were their motivation, and not something someone else said, that none of them even brought up.

[Magneto Rocks]

Well said Pendaran!

[jackolover]

Which is of course ridiculous since if Cap was alive he'd be leading the charge against the Green Goliath.

I don't know if Cap would have gone after the Hulk, to take him down? It's an interesting debate. Why did the Illuminati remove Hulk from the landscape of the CW?

1. So Cap couldn't get Banner on side?
2. Because, if Hulk got in the fight, the Initiative would fail and Project Wideawake would come into effect?
3. Because if Tony had Hulk on his side, he would switch sides and go to Caps side, or, visa versa, and drag the conflict out for much longer?

Or some other contingency?

[Pendaran]

I don't know if Cap would have gone after the Hulk, to take him down? It's an interesting debate. Why did the Illuminati remove Hulk from the landscape of the CW?

1. So Cap couldn't get Banner on side?
2. Because, if Hulk got in the fight, the Initiative would fail and Project Wideawake would come into effect?
3. Because if Tony had Hulk on his side, he would switch sides and go to Caps side, or, visa versa, and drag the conflict out for much longer?

Or some other contingency?

Could it possibly be.. for the reasons they said they did in NA Illuminati? It's not as much of a debate when they bother to show their planning meeting for it and have them each say why they want to do it, and the reasons have nothing to do with the registration movement. Do you feel they were lying to one another in a private meeting?

[Kevinroc]

I don't know if Cap would have gone after the Hulk, to take him down? It's an interesting debate. Why did the Illuminati remove Hulk from the landscape of the CW?

1. So Cap couldn't get Banner on side?
2. Because, if Hulk got in the fight, the Initiative would fail and Project Wideawake would come into effect?
3. Because if Tony had Hulk on his side, he would switch sides and go to Caps side, or, visa versa, and drag the conflict out for much longer?

Or some other contingency?

If Cap were still alive, he'd still be in prison. So then what would they do? Free a man that still refuses to comply with the Registration Act?

[jackolover]

And as you were responded with then, the actual private conversation he has, in exact frames from comic books, in the exact same comic, pages later, has Tony and the others discussing their motivations for doing so. It's in fact right on the next page. Registration is not brought up once, nor the concept of the government looking to blame them for what the Hulk does. /When the actual people doing the exiling talk about why they are doing it/ with each other, they do not talk about the things you are talking about. They talk about the death bit.

It's interesting, that in NA : Illuminati, that the 2 people mentioned by Maria Hill (Norman Osborn, and the Hulk) were addressed after that conversation, by CW. Osborn went to TBolts stuffed with nanobots, and the Hulk sent to parts unknown. And the threat that Hill made, about capitol hill, was certainly Project Wideawake. Tony's alternative was a softened version of the SHRA, which keeps the control of SH's in-house, instead of spiraling out of control with a SH war.

So, already, the Illuminati were thinking Registration for everyone, or, why bother with shipping the Hulk out? Why round up villains, like Osborn, and keeping him on a permanent leash? Tony and the Illuminati were afraid of one thing. If the government decided the Superhumans were not on the humans side, then the SH's would have to go.

[Pendaran]

So, already, the Illuminati were thinking Registration for everyone, or, why bother with shipping the Hulk out?

So, when each of them said why they wanted to exile the Hulk in that meeting, do you feel they were lying to each other in a private meeting? Were there missing thought bubbles saying "I do not really mean what I am saying"?

why bother with shipping the Hulk out?

Because, whether one agrees with it or not (and to be fair, lots of people don't), they felt his rampages were having too destructive an effect on the world, that the world deserved a reprieve, and felt they had no other option, after discussing several options and deciding they wouldn't work? In that such was what they actually said?

Your statements require that they have private meetings to do nothing but lie to each other about every single thing they are saying. Or that this page never happened.

Tony and the Illuminati were afraid of one thing. If the government decided the Superhumans were not on the humans side, then the SH's would have to go.

So, you feel that they had a private meeting with no one else around to do nothing but lie to each other? Can you show me the thought bubbles or subtitles that translate their words to this?

Why did they keep talking about how their concern was about people dying, and not say anything like you have said? In a private meeting. Held secret from the rest of the world. Not even being recorded. If registration is their real motive for exiling the Hulk, you'd think they could mention it even once, instead of go on and on and on about something completely different as their motive, as though their motive was... something completely different.

When Bendis wrote them into several pages at length discussing why they were doing it, and the results have nothing to do with why you said they "must" have done it, do you feel that those were printer errors?

Tony Stark is definitely afraid of the thing you've mentioned, but as far as things like "he did it because the Hulk would side with Cap" or "he did it because the Hulk was making the rest of them look bad and it was going to cause Days of Future Past", he and the others were written as exiling the Hulk for reasons that had nothing to do with it. In particularly unsubtle detail. Stating those reasons explicitly. You'll want to wait for an admittedly at least moderately probable to occur retcon to say how it "must" be otherwise".

[jackolover]

So, when each of them said why they wanted to exile the Hulk in that meeting, do you feel they were lying to each other in a private meeting? Were there missing thought bubbles saying "I do not really mean what I am saying"?

When everyone agreed to send Hulk into space, it was after Namor said they couldn't do that. Reed took offense and told Namor all the means he went too, to cure Banner, followed by Strange. But that wasn't an excuse, because they had 40 years of continuity to do this before, and didn't. No. The Illuminati took this step to help Registration. And yes, I do think some members of the Illuminati held secret meetings off panel, otherwise, why was it already agreed too by some, and not Namor? And there is no need to accuse them of lying about anything. The Illuminati were stating they tried to help the Hulk and couldn't anymore. Maria Hill already said the killing had to stop, or capital hill would go after superhumans. Hulk was part of the killing. Hulk had to go. What's so difficult to understand about that reasoning?

[CDB]

I hope he crushes everyone not named Dr. Strange.

Seconded. And with that said to spoof Stone Cold Steve Austin classic moniker:

Hulk 3:16 says:

"I just smashed your punny ass!!!"

Go, Hulk, Go!!!:D

[Pendaran]

What's so difficult to understand about that reasoning?

That you feel the parts of the comic book where the Illuminati say in explicit detail their reasons for why they are sending the Hulk into space, despite having happened, did not happen, because you seem to be ignoring that they exist.

The Illuminati took this step to help Registration.

Even though that's not why they did it according to what they said for why they did it in the comic book. A thorny problem you haven't exactly addressed. Those who decided to exile the Hulk stated reasons and concerns for doing it that had nothing to do with anything you've said. Is there a reason the comic book disagrees with you like this? They literally had a discussion where they said why they were doing it. It doesn't remotely resemble what you've said for why they're doing it. If you want to say "I'm completely ignoring the part of the comic where Reed, Tony and Strange say out loud to each other, in a private meeting, why they're doing this, and what their main concern driving them is", sure, but at least say that.

I do think some members of the Illuminati held secret meetings off panel, otherwise, why was it already agreed too by some, and not Namor?

In the comic, they convened the meeting to discuss the issue, then voted on it. It could always just mean the simple and depicted on panel thing that some came to agree, and Namor didn't. Reed for example started off trying to argue that maybe the death should just be accepted as part of a force of nature, then relented. You're basically creating a secondary comic for yourself that does not exist, to talk about things that never happened. Which, if you want to, sure, more power to you, but you keep going on about how this is what's "really" happening, so I guess I just wonder if the part where they themselves, instead of someone else, actually said what their concern was as far as the Hulk, and what was motivating them to exile the guy happened for you or not. It got a full spread across a few pages within the comic itself you know.

[agrich]

Regarding how important it would or wouldn't have been to have the Hulk on the side of the anti-reg forces, I think people are overlooking that in terms of raw power, the anti-reg side already had enough of an edge to win. That's if we can believe what was shown and stated in Civil War 7 ("We were winning!") when Captain America ordered the anti-reg forces to stand down. So they didn't "lose" the war because they didn't have the power of the Hulk; they lost the war because it became clear to Cap that the cost of winning was too high, given the destruction occurring, AND that the regular people were against him. (Yes, yes, I know, he should have realized this earlier.) In any case, clearly having the Hulk on his side wouldn't have lessened either of those realities -- it would have only enhanced them. So saying "The Anti-Reg forces would have won with the Hulk" doesn't really follow -- what, they would have continued fighting until all the Pro forces were defeated and they'd overthrown the U.S. government and enslaved the populace? I kind of don't think they'd have gone that far just because they had the Hulk on their side. Power wasn't what kept the antis from winning; realization was.

That said, it's reasonable to say that both sides of the above argument are right, in that perhaps Hill convinced Tony Stark that the Hulk should be taken out of the equation, and Stark then used a different approach to convince his fellow Illuminati to exile him. It certainly wouldn't be beyond Stark to decide something based on one argument and then use another, more humane argument to sell others on the idea. Put it this way, it's a lot easier to imagine Dr. Strange and perhaps Reed having Bruce Banner's best interests at heart than Tony, with all that was going on at that point in time.

As for Reed dying, no, I don't think it's going to happen either, but it could happen without a Fantastic Four tie in. It's been proven in the past that Fantastic Four without Reed Richards can in fact sell and be popular. He could conceivably die -- or more likely, appear to die -- in the pages of the final issue of World War Hulk, and then the enusing issue of Fantastic Four could deal with the consequences.

[Kara Zor El]

It's gotta be Hulk all the way. He's going to squeeze, he's going to smash, he's going to bounce, he's going split the Earth at the seams and no one's gonna be able to stop him. Everyone who tries is going to just make him madder and stronger and Iron Man old boy, I almost pity you!!!:evilsmile

[chrismileslord]

He had also recently shredded a good chunk of Las Vegas over in FF

Yeah. That was all his fault. It had nothing to do with Shield.....or a gamm bomb.....

[Mike Smash!]

Yeah. That was all his fault. It had nothing to do with Shield.....or a gamm bomb.....From what I understand it was a mixture of being hit with a gamma bomb and provocation by