Where have all the long term writers gone??

[The Shadow]

This thread is the result of This Wonder Woman thread (http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?t=169312)

It got me thinking about the lack of consistency in a series.

Hush came after a long build up in the Batbooks and didn't fit in with anything that had happened over the course of the previous couple of years.

That was followed by Broken City which was TOTALLY different in tone and feel. Killer Croc (in both Hush and Broken City) was two TOTALLY different characters. In Hush he was a devolving monster that looked like a crocodile with a long mouth and animal instincts whereas in Broken City he was a flat faced gangster wearing a suit. No explanation was given.

In Wonder Woman Vol 2 Greg Rucka was the writer for issues 195 to 226 (31 straight issues) over two years.

They rushed the ending of his story (and it was painfully rushed!) so they could cancel it (thanks Infinite Crisis) and pretty much undid the great stories and writing he set up over that time in favor of the new writer and status quo.

DC then went in their OYL direction which was a throwback to the late 60's-70's characterization of Diana as Diana Prince. That's fine, but the lack of consistency means we get Circe in the first arc and then she's back again in the second.

I think a problem is the new writers know they are short tern and each wants to tell their "definitive" Character X story and that usually involves the big villains (and this happens in all big books) and it means repetition for the readers and no growth or use for any of the B villains.

DC seems to want the flashy writers (even though Rucka is a best selling novelist himself) over consistency.

So far the series (and Batman felt like this from Hush to the end of Infinite Crisis) has felt like a series of mini series' within the main book.
There's no consistency that a long term writer would bring, not subtle weaving of subplots and no big payoffs at the end... just a series of miscellaneous adventures that happen to star the same person who's characterization varies from arc to arc.

Marvel does it too. After 17 years on the X-Men Claremont was replaced and a series of mini's within the main series became the norm.

Love him or hate him though, Bendis has done a fantastic job stayiong on his books giving them some consistency. Daredevil, New Avengers, Ultimate spider-Man have (IMO) all benefited from a single writer over a few years. Are there stinkers in there? Sure, you'd get that with any writer, but I think overall the title is better off for it.

Brubaker is giving us some of the best Captain America stories since Waid was on the book... and it's because he's not in and out in 12 issues.

Thoughts? Opinions? Agree? Disagree?


Posted in the Marvel board too for those that don't go there


EDIT: Can a Mod fix my spelling of writers in the thread title? Thanks

[ultramandingo]

....im with you on the rucka wonder woman thing . in the "good ole days " you got gamian's " sandman" or ennis "preacher" or robbinson's" starman" , but you also got the dc suits running allan FREEKIN moore away from swamp thing and dc forever ( guy can hold a gruge ) and morrison leaving jla .....and i heard joss wheadon is done with marvel due to x-overs and " major events " , so the bean counters are to blame ( and the bean buyers )

as for the "killer croc thing" its a "flavor of the month" deal , and risso dont leave a cheezy lee after-tase. imo

[Arawn]

I know, DC never keeps anyone on anything. Just look at Gail Simone on Birds of Prey. Thats only what 70ish issues now?

Nope no such thing as a long term writer in DC. Not a single one.

[Sijo]

The problem with comics -and most other forms of entertainment- is that they depend on the creativity of writers to sell- but, they're also businesses, and businesses require planning. So, it's always been a conflict of talent vs control. In the old days, comics writers were treated like wage slaves, with no ownership of their creations, little pay, and fired at an editor's whim; today, the problem is the opposite- I can hardly believe comics are coming out months late simply because the writers don't feel like delivering their work in time. If they were truly Pros they would just admit they can't handle the job and let someone else take over. Ironically, it was back in the old days when the truly dedicated writers abounded- probably because writing the stories themselves was their true motivation.

There's also the fact that we're migrating from a weekly-sold comics based comics market to a reprint-based one. Last year, the latter finally outsold the former. Of course, comics have been written with a "trade paperback" mentality for quite a while now -the so-called 'decompression'- so I guess they saw it coming. Still, I never expected delays like Wonder Woman's or Marvel's Civil War ones. They couldn't have made the message "we don't care about your monthly business anymore" any more clear if they tried.

I wouldn't be surprised if the time when DC and Marvel shrank to just putting out graphic novels -in an irregular basis- was going to happen in the near future. That works even better for the Big-Name, Put-Out-When-They Want writers, too.

[Captain Jim]

I know, DC never keeps anyone on anything. Just look at Gail Simone on Birds of Prey. Thats only what 70ish issues now?

Nope no such thing as a long term writer in DC. Not a single one.

To be fair BOP is an exception. When DC came out with OYL, they mandated that virtually all of the writers change books. There were very few exceptions. BOP was one; Winnick on Green Arrow and Outsiders were two others (inexplicable as that may seem). Can't remember if there were any others or not.

[SpaceBooger]

I know, DC never keeps anyone on anything. Just look at Gail Simone on Birds of Prey. Thats only what 70ish issues now?

Nope no such thing as a long term writer in DC. Not a single one.

You do make a point... but I agree with the original post.
Comics and pro sports - this free agency crap is ripping away some of the fun. Loyalty in the end usually equals quality.

[Captain Jim]

This thread is the result of This Wonder Woman thread (http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?t=169312)

DC seems to want the flashy writers (even though Rucka is a best selling novelist himself) over consistency.

So far the series (and Batman felt like this from Hush to the end of Infinite Crisis) has felt like a series of mini series' within the main book.
There's no consistency that a long term writer would bring, not subtle weaving of subplots and no big payoffs at the end... just a series of miscellaneous adventures that happen to star the same person who's characterization varies from arc to arc.

It used to be that it was the editor's job to make sure there was consistency. That and make sure their freelancers delivered on time. :rolleyes:

Not sure what they do anymore, other than collect paychecks.

[CYOTI]

When DC came out with OYL, they mandated that virtually all of the writers change books. There were very few exceptions. BOP was one; Winnick on Green Arrow and Outsiders were two others (inexplicable as that may seem). Quite a few exceptions there, just off the top of my head: Catwoman, Firestorm, Green Lantern, Teen Titans, Manhunter

[dupersuper]

Quite a few exceptions there, just off the top of my head: Catwoman, Firestorm, Green Lantern, Teen Titans, Manhunter

Coincidently the ones that generally deliver on time... (I'm willing to cut Johns a LITTLE slack; he writes what, 4, 5, 6 books?)

[The Shadow]

I know, DC never keeps anyone on anything. Just look at Gail Simone on Birds of Prey. Thats only what 70ish issues now?

Nope no such thing as a long term writer in DC. Not a single one.

Dear Exception to the rule,

I would like to introduce you to my friend Arawn. He's apparently never heard of you. I would like to arrange a meeting as soon as is convenient for you.

Please let me know your schedule.


Your friend,
The Shadow

-----------

Oh, you might also want to work on those math skills.

BoP is at issue 104 and Gail took over at 56. That's only 48 issues... not 70 ;)

[CYOTI]

Thats still the longest run on BoP for any writer.

[Captain Jim]

Uh, no. Chuck Dixon wrote the first 46 issues, plus about another ten issues of one shots and minis before it became an ongoing title.

[Arawn]

Yes but more and more writers and artists are being signed to DC exclusively. They have been doing this for about 2 years now. I'd expect that as this trend continues we'll see even more long term writers.

Also it is very difficult to consistantly write anything. A comic series has to flow nonstop, and has been said to be harder than writing a novel. There are no breaks in comics after all. Not everyone can do a 100+ issue run and keep it monthly.

Thats why most indy books that do have long gaps between story arcs every so often. Or you can end up like the craptastic issue 50 of the original Wildcats. Guess what everyone, the war ended centuries go. All the characters that died, they died meaningless deaths. Oh and the bad guys are a slave race now, so your heroes are actually the bad guys.

Very few can do what Simone Bendis and (the legendary) Hama have done.
Should writers get more time before being moved? Yes.
But how long does the writer feel they can go?

[Captain Jim]

Exclusive contracts (which have been around for quite awhile now) don't necessarily guarantee that a creator will remain long on a given title.

[The Shadow]

Also it is very difficult to consistantly write anything. A comic series has to flow nonstop, and has been said to be harder than writing a novel. There are no breaks in comics after all. Not everyone can do a 100+ issue run and keep it monthly.

Long term writing gigs were the norm and not the exception in the past and there were few problems with a writer having late books.

[The Shadow]

It's also not JUST about a writer staying on a book for a long time either... it's a general lack of consistency between the writers coming and going.

As I said each writer wasn't to do "their" story even if it means flugging up the last arc. See Hush to Broken City as an example.

[Lorendiac]

I know, DC never keeps anyone on anything. Just look at Gail Simone on Birds of Prey. Thats only what 70ish issues now?

Nope no such thing as a long term writer in DC. Not a single one.

It appears to vary from title to title -- because you've just reminded me of something relevant that happened to Gail a few years ago. Something that I don't think anyone else has mentioned on this thread yet.

At the same time that DC was letting Gail stick on BoP for a long time, it was hastily giving her a job on another regular title and then hastily yanking the rug out from under her without warning!

Remember when the end of her run on "Action Comics" was announced?

As near as I can recall: John Byrne said that after he and Gail had been working on that title together for a while, they were belatedly informed that the Current Official Policy on the Superman titles, back around 2005, was to let each creative team have a brief run (nine issues or so, in this case?) and then automatically kick them off the title -- no matter how well they had done -- so that a new creative team could take over pretty quick. Byrne said that no one bothered to tell him or Gail anything about this when he signed on -- and if they had told him, he would have turned them down flat.

Gail Simone was quoted as pretty much laughing it off when the news came, saying sweetly that she was sure the Superman editor (whoever it was) was just so awfully busy that for months he'd been totally unable to find the time to let her know how short her run on "Action Comics" was going to be! The poor absent-minded fellow! (Or words to that general effect.) So, although she apparently wasn't as angry about it as Byrne was, she was basically confirming his version about how the two of them had essentially been "tricked" into signing up for a run that was Officially Predestined to be a very short run -- no matter how great the finished product might be!

[Lorendiac]

Oh, by the way, Arawn, I thought "70ish issues" sounded a bit high. Just now I did some quick research. Gail started BoP with #56 and the most recent issue was #104. So she's been at it for four years now -- not quite 50 issues yet, if it matters.

[dupersuper]

It appears to vary from title to title -- because you've just reminded me of something relevant that happened to Gail a few years ago. Something that I don't think anyone else has mentioned on this thread yet.

At the same time that DC was letting Gail stick on BoP for a long time, it was hastily giving her a job on another regular title and then hastily yanking the rug out from under her without warning!

Remember when the end of her run on "Action Comics" was announced?

As near as I can recall: John Byrne said that after he and Gail had been working on that title together for a while, they were belatedly informed that the Current Official Policy on the Superman titles, back around 2005, was to let each creative team have a brief run (nine issues or so, in this case?) and then automatically kick them off the title -- no matter how well they had done -- so that a new creative team could take over pretty quick. Byrne said that no one bothered to tell him or Gail anything about this when he signed on -- and if they had told him, he would have turned them down flat.

Gail Simone was quoted as pretty much laughing it off when the news came, saying sweetly that she was sure the Superman editor (whoever it was) was just so awfully busy that for months he'd been totally unable to find the time to let her know how short her run on "Action Comics" was going to be! The poor absent-minded fellow! (Or words to that general effect.) So, although she apparently wasn't as angry about it as Byrne was, she was basically confirming his version about how the two of them had essentially been "tricked" into signing up for a run that was Officially Predestined to be a very short run -- no matter how great the finished product might be!

That may explain why no one does much with the Supes supprting cast these days...why bother if you have 9 or so books, then are moved on? Remember the Whites adopted son? Ron and Lucy? Franklin Stern? Bibbo? Exactly. I hope Busiek gets plenty of time.

Also, though Simones writing was fine, it could get downright painful seeing modern-Byrne Superman, compared to Byrnes early Supes stuff. Does he only draw skinny, pointy people now? All elbows and no facial expression?

[Stressfactor]

Geoff Johns. JSA. He came on with, what, the second story arc? Teamed with Goyer and then went solo and after he went solo every issue was his except for the 3(?) issue arc written by Don Kramer and the OYL 6 issues written by Paul Levitz. The Kramer stuff was merely to ease Geoff's schedule a little since he was working on IC as well and the Levitz thing was (I believe) partly to give Geoff some lead time on some of his other titles and partly as a little bit of a tribute/nostalgia thing. I think I remember reading where DiDio or someone had asked Levitz if they would ever write again and Levitz indicated he would love to do a JSA arc if the time were right and then there was a gap and he was basically told "Now or Never" because Geoff was gearing up the next years' worth of JSA stories and there would be no room for fill-in.

Either way, John has written at least close to 70 issues of JSA and if they hadn't rebooted the series he would have taken it to issue #100.

[mattx110]

on something like batman or superman, i don't mind a "flagship" title with changing creators, but it'd be nice to have detective, or a man of steel which has more buildup, and someone who can do longterm stories.

it's been left completely up to the editors to hold up continuity, but when you're on a book hiring jeph loeb, greg rucka or whoever for 5-10 issues, you don't hire them to tell your story, you hire them to tell their superman story that they've been itching to tell and try to make it fit.

the musical chairs creator thing could even work if they have a "challengers" type, "solve the previous creators loose ends while making more for the next team" thing, but idk, not every book has to be special all the time. sometimes it's nice if they're good.
something like astonishing was good and special because it was one creative team for a year.
brian bendis's run on daredevil took a year or two to get as insane as it got while he built up his cast and events.

[Lorendiac]

That may explain why no one does much with the Supes supprting cast these days...why bother if you have 9 or so books, then are moved on? Remember the Whites adopted son? Ron and Lucy? Franklin Stern? Bibbo? Exactly. I hope Busiek gets plenty of time.

Also, though Simones writing was fine, it could get downright painful seeing modern-Byrne Superman, compared to Byrnes early Supes stuff. Does he only draw skinny, pointy people now? All elbows and no facial expression?

To add to the list of interesting supporting characters whom Superman hasn't seen or heard from in several years, as far as I know:

Gangbuster
Alpha Centurion
And Lex's wife, the Contessa (the full name escapes me at the moment)

As to the Simone/Byrne run -- I still haven't gotten around to actually reading any of it, so I can't say how well Byrne did. (Although I seem to have this vague memory, from two years ago, of seeing other fans complaining that Byrne was now drawing Jimmy Olsen as if he were a 12-year-old copyboy instead of a veteran reporter who must be well into his 20s by now?)

[CYOTI]

- Countessa was killed by Luthor early during his presidential campaign.
- Gangbuster is outdated, he is frankly a character of his times.

[stealthwise]

I'd love to see writers spend more time on one book, but I wonder if the lack of ability to generate sales (among some of the lesser knowns) and/or the desire to move onto different things (see BKV on Ultimate X-Men and even Runaways, a title he co-created) that causes some of those shifts.

The Gail/Byrne thing was crap, and the last few issues seemed rushed because of it. Wide-sweeping editorially mandated events are ridiculous, as they affect nearly the entire line of books and seem to cause far more harm than good, especially when it comes to both consistency and quality.

[Captain Jim]

The Gail/Byrne thing was crap...

I liked it. :p

[CYOTI]

The Gail/Byrne thing was crap, and the last few issues seemed rushed because of it. Wide-sweeping editorially mandated events are ridiculous, as they affect nearly the entire line of books and seem to cause far more harm than good, especially when it comes to both consistency and quality.
Wide sweeping editorially mandated events however usually sell. the Superman IC-tie ins weren't an exception to the rule, and DC is still a business at the end of the day.