View Full Version : Bart Allen question
Fallman
03-31-2007, 01:54 AM
Don't think anyone at DC has noticed it yet, but there's a bit of a problem with Barty-boy.
He's had superspeed since he was born, in the thirtieth century. That actually caused aging problems, which resulted in him being sent to the modern era to cure them. His superspeed has always been a a result of his natural connection to the Speed Force.
However, during the Infinite Crisis, the Speed Force was destroyed, and everyone lost their connection to it, and thus their speed. Modern Bart kept his speed because he absorbed the Speed Force.
How does baby Bart, from a thousand years after the Speed Force was destroyed, have the super speed that causes him to be sent to the present?
Jack Zodiac
03-31-2007, 02:04 AM
A) Zero Hour, B) Infinite Crisis, C) nobody gives a !@#$.
OzBat!
03-31-2007, 02:29 AM
You're forgetting the genetic component. Wally West is physically capable of limited superspeed, up to about Mach 1 from memory, but it takes a vast amount of food and rest to sustain it. This is without the speed force. Simply put, the lightning bolt and chemicals rewrote his biology to some degree.
I believe this was the basis for Jay Garrick's reduced speed, after Infinite Crisis. They'd taken the quasi-scientific explanations Wally's FLASH series spent the better part of its first three years working out and applied them to Jay also, now that the Speed Force has been removed.
There were a few references to Barry Allen no longer being truly human as well. If his children inherited this altered biology, and his grandchildren also, then Bart Allen was genetically capable of superspeed. Being born with it instead of it being bestowed upon him later in life is what caused his hyperaccelerated growth patterns.
SKETCHSANCHEZ
03-31-2007, 02:35 AM
The future he came from doesnt even exist anymore, wrap your head around that one.
OzBat!
03-31-2007, 02:38 AM
It's a possible alternate future.
JoeK32880
03-31-2007, 02:58 AM
He's three years old and having sex!
Schornforce
03-31-2007, 08:47 AM
Kids these days grow up so fast...
Bart is immune to temporal manipulation. He can't be affected by it. He's actually got a whole load of powers that other speedsters don't, like that and his Scouts. So the fact that his past no longer exists doesn't make a difference to him.
phantom1592
03-31-2007, 09:19 AM
Also who's to say that the speed force won't be BACK by the time he's born. These kind of things are rarely permanent, Look at the destruction of the GL corps.
Besides, how can you destroy a universal force? Most likely, the SF is simply blocked by some alteration to space/time caused by the Infinite Crisis, and Bart just "absorbed" a fraction of it. It'll probably eventually be back.
The Speed Force was invented to explain how the Flash-related characters could do stunts that clearly defied the known laws of physics. It worked well and provided many good stories. I can understand if they want to limit its use now, but I've never been a fan of "let's raze what was there before" 'new takes.' Like Marvel's Mutant Decimation. Sometimes I get the impression today's writers just don't have the creativity needed for superhero stories. Anybody can write stories about people being slaughtered. Explaining The Flash's powers? THAT takes imagination.
Jack Zodiac
03-31-2007, 11:50 AM
Bart is immune to temporal manipulation. He can't be affected by it. He's actually got a whole load of powers that other speedsters don't, like that and his Scouts. So the fact that his past no longer exists doesn't make a difference to him.
I sorta' miss his scouts, but I don't know if they'd be nearly as fitting now that he's "grown up." They were fun when he was Impulse because they all acted like him and did ridiculous crap. Although... the image of a dozen or so Flashes all slamming into Zoom at once is pretty damn cool.
I sorta' miss his scouts, but I don't know if they'd be nearly as fitting now that he's "grown up." They were fun when he was Impulse because they all acted like him and did ridiculous crap. Although... the image of a dozen or so Flashes all slamming into Zoom at once is pretty damn cool.
The Scouts were very cool in my opinion, but they're too powerful, really, to be used frequently. But he never lost the power, so he should be able to do it if he ever needs to... I'd like to see them used again, though, simply because they could help differentiate Bart from the previous Flashes. As he is now, he's more of an amalgam of Wally and Barry... A Warry, so to speak.
I say treat the Scouts like time travel... bring the power up every once in a while, perhaps as the key to defeating a big bad, but make it clear that it's a power Bart is reluctant to use unless he's really forced.
cappa donna
03-31-2007, 11:58 AM
Don't think anyone at DC has noticed it yet, but there's a bit of a problem with Barty-boy.
He's had superspeed since he was born, in the thirtieth century. That actually caused aging problems, which resulted in him being sent to the modern era to cure them. His superspeed has always been a a result of his natural connection to the Speed Force.
However, during the Infinite Crisis, the Speed Force was destroyed, and everyone lost their connection to it, and thus their speed. Modern Bart kept his speed because he absorbed the Speed Force.
How does baby Bart, from a thousand years after the Speed Force was destroyed, have the super speed that causes him to be sent to the present?
Wait a second, let me get this straight....you're asking why an aspect of the Flash's character doesn't make any sense?! :confused:
phantom1592
03-31-2007, 12:01 PM
The Scouts were very cool in my opinion, but they're too powerful, really, to be used frequently. But he never lost the power, so he should be able to do it if he ever needs to... I'd like to see them used again, though, simply because they could help differentiate Bart from the previous Flashes. As he is now, he's more of an amalgam of Wally and Barry... A Warry, so to speak.
I say treat the Scouts like time travel... bring the power up every once in a while, perhaps as the key to defeating a big bad, but make it clear that it's a power Bart is reluctant to use unless he's really forced.
Personally I never liked them. But you are right. I don't think he "lost" the power. The story I heard was that one of them got killed and he felt some sort of backlash or something. Since then he has been reluctant to create them. Soo.... techinquely he still HAS the ability if he really needs it.
Jack Zodiac
03-31-2007, 12:07 PM
Personally I never liked them. But you are right. I don't think he "lost" the power. The story I heard was that one of them got killed and he felt some sort of backlash or something. Since then he has been reluctant to create them. Soo.... techinquely he still HAS the ability if he really needs it.
Ah, yes, one of the greatest Impulse stories. Something with substance that actually developed his character and had lasting effects on him. Not like, say... getting shot in the knee by a douchebag who couldn't have possibly done that anyway.
Froggy
03-31-2007, 01:19 PM
Ah, yes, one of the greatest Impulse stories. Something with substance that actually developed his character and had lasting effects on him. Not like, say... getting shot in the knee by a douchebag who couldn't have possibly done that anyway.
That and the cover to that issue with the "HEy thats not funny" tombstone........sad but funny
Joe Acro
03-31-2007, 01:36 PM
How does baby Bart, from a thousand years after the Speed Force was destroyed, have the super speed that causes him to be sent to the present?
His future and origin have to be different than what was previously told, as Booster's should be as well. The fallout from Infinite Crisis (the destruction of the Speed Force, the reshaping of the future into the new Legion future, etc.) leads that to be the only good explanation.
Schornforce
03-31-2007, 02:50 PM
Personally I never liked them. But you are right. I don't think he "lost" the power. The story I heard was that one of them got killed and he felt some sort of backlash or something. Since then he has been reluctant to create them. Soo.... techinquely he still HAS the ability if he really needs it.
But Bart used them after that happened. He used them quite a bit, IIRC. He just was reluctant to put them in harm's way.
My personal take is Johns thought anything Impulse once did was stupid and when he made him Kid Flash, took the scouts away with the rest of what made Bart cool (visual thinking, impulsiveness, his hyperactivity, etc.). But I'm a bitter old man in this subject.
But Bart used them after that happened. He used them quite a bit, IIRC. He just was reluctant to put them in harm's way.He used them when he had to. I'm pretty sure there were only two later stories in which they were used: one, when Bedlam hijacked the power to alter history and get rid of Young Justice, and a Scout was what ultimately defeated him; two, when he needed to locate the timelost Carol (and Iris, I think).
The Scouts are how Bart travels through time, instead of just running like the other speedsters, so in both of those situations they were his only possible resort, since in the first story he used a Scout when he was trapped by Bedlam, then later another to prevent Bedlam from ever getting his godly powers.
He remained extremely reluctant to use the power, but he should definitely still have it.
Jack Zodiac
03-31-2007, 04:06 PM
His future and origin have to be different than what was previously told, as Booster's should be as well. The fallout from Infinite Crisis (the destruction of the Speed Force, the reshaping of the future into the new Legion future, etc.) leads that to be the only good explanation.
Nope. He's immune to temporal anomalies. He appeared before Zero Hour, but he parents couldn't have met and had him before the event, and while his version of the 31st century no longer exists, he still remembers it. When time funks up, he's left alone.
Joe Acro
03-31-2007, 04:57 PM
Nope. He's immune to temporal anomalies. He appeared before Zero Hour, but he parents couldn't have met and had him before the event, and while his version of the 31st century no longer exists, he still remembers it. When time funks up, he's left alone.Why couldn't his parents have met before Zero Hour?
And are we sure he remembers the 31st century the same way? I haven't seen him reference it.
Jack Zodiac
03-31-2007, 05:18 PM
Before Zero Hour, Don and Dawn were married to completely different people and died before the Legion was around. After Zero Hour, the time between the their careers as outlaw superheroes and the Legion was cut down to, like, a decade, and Don was married to Meloni when he was killed. Meloni, though, doesn't appear until later into the Impulse series, a couple of years after Zero Hour, and in a time where the post-Zero Hour Legion of Super-Heroes continuity is used.
Thank God they had Zero Hour fix all those darned pesky continuity problems, 'cause I'm sure all of these books would've been completely unreadble without it!
Oh, and he referenced the time he used to belong to in that Teen Titans/Legion one-shot a couple years back. That Legion would've been the thrice-rebooted Legion of Waid's, instead of the rebooted Legion Giffen created that Bart would've known.
Yes, thank God for Zero Hour.
JoeK32880
03-31-2007, 11:10 PM
I never understood why they considered it growing him as a character to take over the Kid Flash name and costume. He was perfect and different as Impulse, now he's just Wally West 2.
SKETCHSANCHEZ
04-01-2007, 01:42 AM
Me either, I also seem to remember him hating being called Kid Flash in the first place. And if it wasnt downright hate, I know he got annoyed by it.
phantom1592
04-03-2007, 09:30 AM
Nope. He's immune to temporal anomalies. He appeared before Zero Hour, but he parents couldn't have met and had him before the event, and while his version of the 31st century no longer exists, he still remembers it. When time funks up, he's left alone.
Actually... "during" Zero Hour, When the timelines were getting erased HE disappeared too didn't he? So he wouldn't be completly immune to temporal disturbances.
Is probably more like Marvels Bishop and Cable. Just because THEIR future has been altered to non existence, doesn't mean THEY disappear. Kind of a Back to the Future ALternate timeline thing they did #2.
Is probably more like Marvels Bishop and Cable. Just because THEIR future has been altered to non existence, doesn't mean THEY disappear. Kind of a Back to the Future ALternate timeline thing they did #2.When you think about it, that's necessary for history-changing stories to happen; otherwise, how could the time traveler even remember the original history to have tried to change it in the first place? I know it isn't very logical but it's more so than those stories where the traveler fades from existence after having changed his own past (which wouldn't have changed if he never existed.) Of course, in Marvel, it's sort-of official that you can't change the past, you only create an alternate reality if you try, which MAKES you think you suceeded, but your original reality is unchanged.
Actually... "during" Zero Hour, When the timelines were getting erased HE disappeared too didn't he? So he wouldn't be completly immune to temporal disturbances.
Is probably more like Marvels Bishop and Cable. Just because THEIR future has been altered to non existence, doesn't mean THEY disappear. Kind of a Back to the Future ALternate timeline thing they did #2.
He was shown to be immune to it on at least three specific instances that I can think of:
1) When Linda Park was removed from time, he remembered her, even when Wally didn't.
2) Extant was unable to affect him in Impulse: Bart Saves the Universe.
3) When Bedlam used the Scout power to alter time, Bart wasn't affected in the slightest, even though everyone else in YJ was completely altered.
And there are probably more.
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