Hawkman question

[EnDwiGast]

Has DC ever given any formal explanation as to why Hawkman lost his title "One Year Later" ?

I had been hoping he'd get his title back when the year had passed, but it looks like they are sticking with Hawkgirl, and demoting Hawkman to being a non-featured roleplayer in JSA.

I thought One Year Later might build up to something huge for Hawkman, but it didn't. When he did come back - his reasons for being off the radar seemed to have little to do with him and everything to do with promoting Hawkgirl.

Now I like Hawkgirl the character when she's teamed with Hawkman - but if I had to choose one over the other for a solo title it would be Hawkman.

So now, I'm feeling like a favorite character has been cheated out of his own ongoing title - and no real reason why. Did i just miss it?

[Trademark]

Hawkman lost his title because Hawkgirl was heavily promoted in the Justice League cartoon and is now better known amongst non-comic book readers. DC is now trying to build upon the momentum started by the cartoon.

[DonC]

From the Chaykin-drawn issues I read it looked like the reason was you can't draw Hawkman in a bra and panties.


Well, you can, it's just that no one would buy that book.

[drwho]

What he was doing for a year was addressed in a cruddy arc of JSA Classified. He was hunting down villains from the Rann Thanagar war. Everyone knows T & A sells better than men with burly chests any day.

[EnDwiGast]

So what i'm seeing so far are reasons Hawkgirl should be featured in an ongoing, not why Hawkman should lose his -- and no mention of Didio or any creators saying why they felt Hawkman needed some time off or a demotion.

[EnDwiGast]

What he was doing for a year was addressed in a cruddy arc of JSA Classified. He was hunting down villains from the Rann Thanagar war. Everyone knows T & A sells better than men with burly chests any day.

I caught that arc, and my reaction was -- this is it? This is what i've been waiting for? Some of the most poorly drawn, plotted and scripted comics i've seen this year.

And so far, no comments to indicate any larger role for Hawkman in the near future.. Or have i missed that too?

[Billy]

I haven't read the book regularly since Geoff Johns and Rags Morales left. I didn't even think about picking Hawkgirl up, cause she is bloody annoying as hell! I am a big fan of Shayera Hol, I thought it was cheap and lame that they killed her off!

I thought the book will return to Hawkman title with his return, but that hasn't happened. odd.

[Captain Jim]

Everyone knows T & A sells better than men with burly chests any day.

Actually, the sales figures have not born that out in this case.

[Captain Jim]

Has DC ever given any formal explanation as to why Hawkman lost his title "One Year Later" ?

I had been hoping he'd get his title back when the year had passed, but it looks like they are sticking with Hawkgirl, and demoting Hawkman to being a non-featured roleplayer in JSA.

I thought One Year Later might build up to something huge for Hawkman, but it didn't. When he did come back - his reasons for being off the radar seemed to have little to do with him and everything to do with promoting Hawkgirl.

Now I like Hawkgirl the character when she's teamed with Hawkman - but if I had to choose one over the other for a solo title it would be Hawkman.

So now, I'm feeling like a favorite character has been cheated out of his own ongoing title - and no real reason why. Did i just miss it?


Y'know, I was just thinking about this the other day. It should have been obvious to me from the beginning, but it wasn't. The reason Hawkgirl has replaced Hawkman (I believe) is because DC is so into diversity right now. Ronnie Raymond is replaced with a black Firestorm, Ray Palmer is replaced with an Asian Atom, Ted Kord is replaced by an Hispanic Blue Beetle and Cassandra Cain is replaced by a lesbian Batwoman. It never occurred to me that titles featuring women characters are also a part of diversity. Hence, Carter Hall is replaced by Hawkgirl.

Now, mind you, I'm not against diversity. And I guess you could say they're making up for lost time. But lately it's felt like a tidal wave. And personally, I would much rather they introduce totally new characters who reflect a greater diversity than replace existing characters, but that's just me.

[Billy]

Y'know, I was just thinking about this the other day. It should have been obvious to me from the beginning, but it wasn't. The reason Hawkgirl has replaced Hawkman (I believe) is because DC is so into diversity right now. Ronnie Raymond is replaced with a black Firestorm, Ray Palmer is replaced with an Asian Atom, Ted Kord is replaced by an Hispanic Blue Beetle and Cassandra Cain is replaced by a lesbian Batwoman. It never occurred to me that titles featuring women characters are also a part of diversity. Hence, Carter Hall is replaced by Hawkgirl.

Don't forget the Hispanic Lesbian Question.

Now, mind you, I'm not against diversity. And I guess you could say they're making up for lost time. But lately it's felt like a tidal wave. And personally, I would much rather they introduce totally new characters who reflect a greater diversity than replace existing characters, but that's just me.

I gotta agree with you on both points you made.

[EnDwiGast]

Y'know, I was just thinking about this the other day. It should have been obvious to me from the beginning, but it wasn't. The reason Hawkgirl has replaced Hawkman (I believe) is because DC is so into diversity right now.
.

When I posted this I made the realization too that this may just have been part of the PC explosion. It wasn't as clear at first because I kept thinking of it as being temporary. So it was the sneakiest of the wave of replacements and I'm glad they got the sales beat-down they did in response to it.

I'm all for diversity too, but with new concepts -- not taking my favorites and replacing them. If they replace a favorite of mine, i don't care what the replacement's ethnicity, gender, or sexual preference is -- I'm highly unlikely to follow them - and no one from this wave has caught my interest.

[Suzanne]

You have a point Jim, but I think it was done simply to a) boost sales and b) try something different. I think the issue wasn't so much Hawkgirl with top billing as it was the execution. Perhaps Shayera in the lead would've made a difference, but she was probably killed for a reason. Even I'm losing interest, and I'm a huge Hawk fan.

[Billy]

You have a point Jim, but I think it was done simply to a) boost sales and b) try something different. I think the issue wasn't so much Hawkgirl with top billing as it was the execution. Perhaps Shayera in the lead would've made a difference, but she was probably killed for a reason. Even I'm losing interest, and I'm a huge Hawk fan.

I think her death came from two notions.

1) Its confusing having a Hawkgirl and Hawkwoman, especially with the mixed up Hawkman history.

2)They needed a death for the story to be more dramatic.

[Bored at 3:00AM]

While I agree that the team-up of Simonson & Chaykin didn't do anything for me, I think switching the focus to Hawkgirl is a great idea at this point. Hawkman is cool and all, but, let's face facts, Pilmotti, Gray & Bennett were doing amongst the coolest Hawkman stuff in years and the book still sucked in sales.

Give Hawkgirl the spotlight for a few years. See what happens.

[Karl O'Neill]

hawkman works better in JSA anyways i think.

To be honest i would not have hawkgirl in the JLA, thats just my 2cent.

she's fine in her own book tho.

[Aaron King]

The Chaykin art didn't do it for me, either, but I picked up the JSA Classified arc and the most recent two issues of Hawkgirl and enjoyed them.

The Classified story was fun and reminded me a bit of Simonson's Star Slammers work. I wish Simonson had done Rann/Thanagar War.

Regarding the recent Hawkgirl story, Simonson is the only person that has managed to write the New Gods in a way I've enjoyed since Kirby.

[PastePotPete]

Hey, I'm just getting into Hawkman. Picked up a bunch of old stuff with him in it as well as the 2002 series...

After reading through a pile of this stuff, it seems to me that Hawkman and Hawkgirl are a team. They always have been. It's part of what makes them cool. It's how they're portrayed in Justice.

Heck, when Hawkman wasn't partnering with Hawkgirl, he partnered with The Atom. I think Hawkman is at his best with a partner because he's such a stone-cold bad-ass that it helps to have another character there to off-set it.

The Hawkman dynamic is the same that you see in a lot of the good buddy cop movies. Which makes sense to me cuz, in Hawkworld, Hawkman was a cop.

I wish DC would bring back the partnership, and get another creative team on the book. In an interview I read, Chaykin and Simonson sounded very cynical. They sounded like they were burned-out on comics in general. It's a shame because they're two incredible talents.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

DC made a colossal mistake changing the title and removing the creative team obviously. The sales have tanked and you can argue that Grey & Palmotti seemed to have a classic flow on Hawkman. I've never seen a company tank 3 of its core books in record time:

Hawkman
Flash
Wonder Woman

These were all great reads in 2005 and DC just butchered them . OYL killed those characters.

[EnDwiGast]

1) Its confusing having a Hawkgirl and Hawkwoman, especially with the mixed up Hawkman history.
.


Its not that i disagree with you Billy, but what kind of an audience are they targeting who would get confused by the two? And is that audience worth targetting?

The mixed up hawkman history i understand, but thought they did an excellent job of handling that when the latest series debuted and am not sure if a newer reader would be so aware that a screwed up history ever existed.

[EnDwiGast]

DC made a colossal mistake changing the title and removing the creative team obviously. The sales have tanked and you can argue that Grey & Palmotti seemed to have a classic flow on Hawkman. I've never seen a company tank 3 of its core books in record time:

Hawkman
Flash
Wonder Woman

These were all great reads in 2005 and DC just butchered them . OYL killed those characters.

I suppose thats my biggest gripe. Hawkman #49, in my opinion, was such an excellent issue....and instead of taking off from there, it just seemed to end.

Sure, Hawkman isn't one of the "big 3" but DC has talented writers who could put their heads together and give us some excellent Hawkman stories. It just seems all the potential of the Rann-Thanagar War was completely wasted.

[CYOTI]

I've never seen a company tank 3 of its core books in record time:
Hawkman was never one of DC's core books. If it was they wouldn't have put him on hiatus for so long after killing Katar Hol.

Of course you must have selective memory or have you forgotten Heroes Reborn.

[Captain Jim]

Give Hawkgirl the spotlight for a few years. See what happens.

Given the present sales, I don't think the book will be around that long.

[Billy]

Its not that i disagree with you Billy, but what kind of an audience are they targeting who would get confused by the two? And is that audience worth targetting?

The mixed up hawkman history i understand, but thought they did an excellent job of handling that when the latest series debuted and am not sure if a newer reader would be so aware that a screwed up history ever existed.

Yeah, its really dumb reasoning, I'm not sure where I read it. I think read it in a interview, or I could be remembering someones opinion I read. I think James Robinson/David Goyer/Geoff Johns did a awesome job. I totally agree.

[Billy]

Hawkman
Flash
Wonder Woman

These were all great reads in 2005 and DC just butchered them . OYL killed those characters.

Don't forget about Aquaman....

[JoeK32880]

I wish DC would bring back the partnership, and get another creative team on the book. In an interview I read, Chaykin and Simonson sounded very cynical. They sounded like they were burned-out on comics in general. It's a shame because they're two incredible talents.

That's weird, because I don't think Chaykin's ever been more prolific than he's been lately. With Hawkgirl and New Avengers and the Guy Gardner series he wrote and drew, and Blade now. I agree his work on Hawkgirl wasn't the best, but so far on Blade he hasn't missed an issue and he's been awesome. I really love him on that book.

Anyhow, I haven't read Hawkgirl in about six months so I don't know what's going on with that title. But from what I've seen of her in JSA and Hawgirl she doesn't seem like a very sympathetic character.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

Hawkman was never one of DC's core books. If it was they wouldn't have put him on hiatus for so long after killing Katar Hol.

It took em awhile to get back to Carter. DC was trying to get a Hawkman title up and running. They finally accomplished this in 2002 with the new Hawkman series and his role in JSA.

Of course you must have selective memory or have you forgotten Heroes Reborn.

Which had nothing to do with DC and was a Marvel Event and one where they let Image creatorrs take the low selling titles and relaunch them to high explosive sales. This relaunch of Hawkgirl did nothing but tank sales on a series that was in the 25-30,000 zone.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

Don't forget about Aquaman....

Yeah sorry....about that. DC's core books beyond the Superman/Batman lines have taken a real tumble down.