How would you have made Batman less of a jerk OYL?

[Drink]

Reading through 52, what they're giving us seems rather...cheap I guess is the word I'm looking for. I mean, I'm not sure what I was expecting, but it wasn't the way they are doing things.

Like with the whole Ten Eyed Tribe cutting out Bruce's darkness. For one, making his darkness something actually physical like that, even if they never did any literal cutting, seems like a quick fix. Why not just say he had a Giant Yellow Space Bug in him since the 80's?

And more recently, the sitting in a cave for a week, and him giving the utterly creepy HappyBats grin that screams "I just had a frontal Lobotomy!" makes this worse.

Anyway, if you were writing for DC, what would you have done?

Me, I'd have went relatively simple, in that Bruce, interacting and bonding with Tim and Dick for a year as they go through their training (Yes there'd be meditation and some unorthadox methods, but no literal soul cleansing!), that he gradually learns to be a functional human being again. It's not a story you can tell all in a lump or a flashback every few months.

Just wondering.

[elias_A]

Well, I haven't read this week's 52 yet, but I don't think there needs to be a specific reason.

They did that in Fugitive, Bruce realised "I've been paranoid and should be nicer to my allies", and that was the best aspect of that crossover, in my opinion.

But that was a good motivation just for THAT story, not the other way around: You shouldn't do an event just to get Batman nicer in future stories.

Why not just portray him more friendly without explanation, because different authors will have different interpretations of Batman anyway?
Or just have him say a few sentences again like "I realise now I forgot how much the people around me mean to me". No need to make a big deal out of that.

But what definitly should NOT be done is to have the change happen outside of the Bat-titles and involve some mystical-supernatural stuff.

I prefer it if the Bat-titles are rather separated from the rest of the DCU, with their own ongoing continuity.
But of course at the moment their seems to be no Bat-continuity at all.
Dini is great, but his stories don't involve or progress much continuity.
And Morrison feels like an Elseworld to me.

[Choppa]

I haven't read the 52 stuff yet, but I think that the best way to have Bruce change is to gain a sense of closure on all of the things that caused him to become a 'jerk' in the first place. There were so many opportunities for him to changed already (Knightfall, NML, BW:M), DC might as well use them instead of coming up with something new.

So just have Dick and Tim confront him abuot all the sh!t that's happened recently and have Bruce realize all of the things that he learned from those experiences.

[DonC]

I wouldn't have. I liked the Batman who walked into a room and immediately starting thinking of all the ways he could take everyone down, friend or foe, if need be.

[mattx110]

i'd have him do somethig that leads to some random person's death.
then we get 6 months of whiny "i can't do this anymore" batman, followed by the return of complete bastard kick down doors, throw drug dealers off rooftops batman.

he won't be as much of a jerk to his friends and allies, but he definitely won't loosen up on badguys.

[trickster]

They did that in Fugitive, Bruce realised "I've been paranoid and should be nicer to my allies", and that was the best aspect of that crossover, in my opinion.

But that was a good motivation just for THAT story, not the other way around: You shouldn't do an event just to get Batman nicer in future stories.

Why not just portray him more friendly without explanation, because different authors will have different interpretations of Batman anyway?
Or just have him say a few sentences again like "I realise now I forgot how much the people around me mean to me". No need to make a big deal out of that.


Because supposedly enough people have been asking for him to change. Although it beats me why.

[The Shadow]

They did that in Fugitive, Bruce realised "I've been paranoid and should be nicer to my allies", and that was the best aspect of that crossover, in my opinion.
I agree.

And then Hush came along and ruined it for another three years.

But what definitly should NOT be done is to have the change happen outside of the Bat-titles and involve some mystical-supernatural stuff.
Again I agree.

I wouldn't have done anything really... just let Paul Dini write Batman. Problem solved.

[TheWraith]

Yep, Dini and James Robinson did a good job immediately before him.

[Tequilamokinbrd]

This is the way that I saw it....


Bruce's "cleansing" wasn't just of his "jerkiness" so to speak, it was also a step in healing himself from the massive mental breakdown he suffered during Infinite Crisis.

Remember? When he started thinking not only about the jerky things he'd done, but all the bad things that had happened to him as well(jason's death/rebirth, his parents dying, etc.) and he said he couldn't breathe?

Well, all that happened, then before he could compose himself, an elderly alternate earth superman barged in and asked him to help destroy the world.

Then he went on a spaceship to fight a robot that he built that happened to be hiding in space.

Then he had to go fight Deathstroke in the middle of the street, and then he thought his adopted son was killed, much in the same way his best friend's sidekick had just been murdered.


All that happened in like a day or so.



It's funny, because considering all that, I think it would be weird if all he needed was to take a cruise with Dick and Tim to get over it.

The rituals in 52 work for me.

[The Shadow]

James Robinson did a good job immediately before him.
Oh hell yeah!

Robinson's one of my favorite writers too!
I would love him to be the guy to fill in for Dini when Dini can't get in a story.

[lead sharp]

Batman is one of the few characters in DC who should steer well clear of the supernatural elements of the DCU. Not maybe in the villains department heaven knows there are enough of them but he himself is a human being, renowned in fact for being so and yet recently they seem happy to mess him about in the clumsiest (that fits just about right) ways.

Look at the explanation for the return of Jason, yes it was meant to piss off the fans but my god that was rubbish.

I agree with the meditating idea. Getting Batman down to his human roots sorting out his family into a crime fighting unit that doesn't forget why they are doing what they are doing, not for revenge but for the greater good.

Batman for me was always the human answer in a universe filled with the none human. Yes there's plenty of insane and whacky stuff in there but at the heart there's a human.

These days he's just some one who hangs out with the rest of the super crowd.

[Mia]

Depends on what you mean by 'jerkiness'. If you mean his manner and attitude I kinda like it. I like it that Batman is arrogant. It takes a giant ego and a belief in yourself to be able to do what he does. With the exception of Nightwing and Storm, I tend to find 'sickly sweet' characters a turn off. I don't want to read about some 'Pollyanna' type hero who doesn't live in the real world.


But if you mean his ability to manipulate and use others to get his way...that I don't mind seeing erradicated. However that's been done before (ie. Tower of Bable) and after the requisite penance, he just goes back to his old ways.

In short I like it that Batman's a bad boy. And I think that any attempt to change that is just.....neutering the character.

[TheWraith]

Being nice to Alfred and Tim or his friends isn't neutering the character. That's a fundamental misunderstanding of the character. He can still be a bad ass to the bad guys without becoming a bad guy in the process, and that's what was happening in the comics for the last severa years prior to the current comics. He's simply returned to the way he's supposed to be before a few writers screwed things up with him.

[Starba]

Being nice to Alfred and Tim or his friends isn't neutering the character. That's a fundamental misunderstanding of the character. He can still be a bad ass to the bad guys without becoming a bad guy in the process, and that's what was happening in the comics for the last severa years prior to the current comics. He's simply returned to the way he's supposed to be before a few writers screwed things up with him.

Yeah, but I don't see Bruce suddenly being so retroactively well-adjusted that he becomes a big brother-type figure to Tim. That was always one of the creepier aspects of his relationship to Dick Grayson, I thought. I'd be much more interested in seeing him unsure if he can live up to the monolithic example of good parenting that he thinks his own parents accomplished, and nervously overcompensating as a result. He's not someone I see as having genuine people skills. I like how Dini portrays him as a fish out of water on the inside everywhere he goes socially.

[TheWraith]

If he were that well adjusted then he wouldn't be Batman, he'd give it up and be just Bruce Wayne. He's simply returned to the way he was prior to several writers screwing him up. I see no problem with that.

[Starba]

If he were that well adjusted then he wouldn't be Batman, he'd give it up and be just Bruce Wayne. He's simply returned to the way he was prior to several writers screwing him up. I see no problem with that.

But in the process of being and becoming Batman he forfeited time that other people spend cultivating social ties and navigating familial relationships. That's, what, at least ten years of his life plus several hours out of every day? I can see how a Bruce Wayne comfortable in his (and others') skin can be more fun. I guess. But I'd personally rather read about a more human character who fumbles the ball every now and then.

[Kid Quick Foots]

I wouldn't have. I liked the Batman who walked into a room and immediately starting thinking of all the ways he could take everyone down, friend or foe, if need be.

yeah, what this fine fellow said.

[TheWraith]

Starba, Batman in the many years since has learned how to be human. That's not to say he's completely comfortable as Bruce Wayne, but he knows what he's doing in that garb. To suggest otherwise would be a gross misunderstanding of the character. By reverting to the Batman prior to the last several years where DC totally screwed him up, they've simply got the character mix right now, just like O'Neil, Englehart, Robbins, Conway et al did.

[Starba]

Starba, Batman in the many years since has learned how to be human. That's not to say he's completely comfortable as Bruce Wayne, but he knows what he's doing in that garb. To suggest otherwise would be a gross misunderstanding of the character. By reverting to the Batman prior to the last several years where DC totally screwed him up, they've simply got the character mix right now, just like O'Neil, Englehart, Robbins, Conway et al did.

I don't know, I think it's a gross misunderstanding of how the American comic book medium works to assume that there's a "correct" way (aside from the original take) to write a character by nature penned by a hundred different authors. Everyone's going to have their favorite version depending on who they are as a person, and every generation has its right to interpret the character in a new, modern way.

I do know what I prefer personally, though, and a James Bond-esque uber sex symbol isn't it. Especially since DC's chosen for him to become an adoptive father.

[Mia]

Being nice to Alfred and Tim or his friends isn't neutering the character. That's a fundamental misunderstanding of the character. He can still be a bad ass to the bad guys without becoming a bad guy in the process, and that's what was happening in the comics for the last severa years prior to the current comics. He's simply returned to the way he's supposed to be before a few writers screwed things up with him.

Being nice to someone is far more than greeting them with a smile. It also comes through in actions. From what I've read of Batman during the last 5 years. It seems that his 'bark' is often worse than his 'bite'. Sure he's not friendly. But he will give his last breath to save one of his underlings.

Bruce adopting Tim after his Dad died showed me more of what a good man Bruce/Batman is than any 'patting' Tim on the head ever could.


My boss is a blunt abrassive man. But he's also one of the most kindest people I know. He's honest and will stand up for you. Which means far more to me than a person who smiles and is cheery to my face and back stabs me behind my back, or who let's me down when I really need them.

I personally like Batman as being arrogant and superior without seeing him turned into some sort of 'Mr. Rogers.'

[TheWraith]

I prefer the Batman given us by the likes of Dennis O'Neil, Steve Englehart, Gerry Conway et al and that's the Batman we're being given now. It was the right decision that DC made, and he's hardly a Mr Rogers now (silly assertion).

[Mia]

I prefer the Batman given us by the likes of Dennis O'Neil, Steve Englehart, Gerry Conway et al and that's the Batman we're being given now. It was the right decision that DC made, and he's hardly a Mr Rogers now (silly assertion).


I never said that what he was now. I said that I would hate to see him turned into some sort of 'Mr. Rogers. Big difference.