Wonder Woman 6 Review and Spoilers

[drwho]

Okay, I see potential with the new writer. This issue actually in my opinion read like it could have been the first issue of the series. I'm a little perplexed why Circe is in it cus I bought the first two issues of the run and she was there too. I dont know why she would be used again here. I do like seeing Diana react to normal day things like gas pumps and credit cards. I'm back on this book for a few more issues to see what is up.

[Powerboy]

Okay, I see potential with the new writer. This issue actually in my opinion read like it could have been the first issue of the series. I'm a little perplexed why Circe is in it cus I bought the first two issues of the run and she was there too. I dont know why she would be used again here. I do like seeing Diana react to normal day things like gas pumps and credit cards. I'm back on this book for a few more issues to see what is up.

I've been reading WW pretty consistently for quite a while but I had been about to give up. I just was not at all interested in this Donna Troy becomes WW thing (apparently not many were for them to give up on it). Ironically, Donna Troy has barely been in it since the new first issue. I am very glad to see Diana Prince as WW again.

Number 5 seemed a rather quick means of redefining her purpose. She is an inspiration, especially to women.

I thought this issue was rather fun. The jokes about Superman and Batman selling better than WW and so on. I keep forgetting that this version of WW never fought in World War II (I do wish they would undo that retcon and have her be the WW II Wonder Woman since she is immortal and that would not be a retcon but undoing a retcon) and was not Yeoman Diana Prince. She's never had to drive places or take the subway because she never had a secret identity to maintain.

All in all, it doesn't have the quality of the WW series that ran from Post-COIE to recently but it is getting better and starting to recapture a lot of the appeal of WW.

[Cayman]

It was good. Much stronger than the Heinberg issues, surprisingly.

[Jack Zodiac]

While I applaud Picoult's attempt at giving Diana some more humor, a bit of dry wit to make her dialogue funnier at times, some of the naievity of her character was just ridiculous. Wait for my buddy Diana_Fan to find this thread and he'll put it better than I would, but the idea that a woman who has been an ambassador for years, written a book about energy consumption and global policy, and has lived in America for a very long time wouldn't know the price of gas, where the tank on a car was, what a credit card was, or... how to work a mother!@#$ing turnstile is goddamn laughable.

Also, she wrote Nemesis like a total tool. She might've taken a little time trying to figure out Wonder Woman's character, but the least someone could've done was given her some !@#$ing cliffnotes about Nemesis.

I think I'll sit this arc out and wait for whoever comes next. Not after Heinberg's craptasm.

[van_line]

While I applaud Picoult's attempt at giving Diana some more humor, a bit of dry wit to make her dialogue funnier at times, some of the naievity of her character was just ridiculous. Wait for my buddy Diana_Fan to find this thread and he'll put it better than I would, but the idea that a woman who has been an ambassador for years, written a book about energy consumption and global policy, and has lived in America for a very long time wouldn't know the price of gas, where the tank on a car was, what a credit card was, or... how to work a mother!@#$ing turnstile is goddamn laughable.



Do you think any current ambassadors to the US pump their own gas or shop for their own groceries? Don't you remember when Bush I went shopping and he was amazed by the scanner in the check out line??

[Bored at 3:00AM]

Alan Heinberg should read this issue and take notes. This is what you should have been doing. Grounding Wonder Woman in the mundane realities all of us have to deal with is a great way of keeping humor in the book and making the protagonist more engaging for the reader.

It's a shame the Dodsons' beautiful art work was largely wasted on Heinberg's aborted attempt to relaunch the character. Whenever he decides to finish his last issue, I hope he keeps it short and sweet. While I like the new premise he established with Agent Diana Prince, Nemesis and the Department of Metahuman Affairs, he fubbled the execution so badly by piling on so many guest-stars and villains that he forgot to make us care about the title character in any meaningful way.

[Jack Zodiac]

Do you think any current ambassadors to the US pump their own gas or shop for their own groceries? Don't you remember when Bush I went shopping and he was amazed by the scanner in the check out line??

No, but I doubt when faced with the task of pumping their own gas they'd stare at the pump like a !@#$ing moron. That's how Diana looked this entire issue. Like a !@#$ing moron.

[Cayman]

Alan Heinberg should read this issue and take notes. This is what you should have been doing. Grounding Wonder Woman in the mundane realities all of us have to deal with is a great way of keeping humor in the book and making the protagonist more engaging for the reader.

It's a shame the Dodsons' beautiful art work was largely wasted on Heinberg's aborted attempt to relaunch the character. Whenever he decides to finish his last issue, I hope he keeps it short and sweet. While I like the new premise he established with Agent Diana Prince, Nemesis and the Department of Metahuman Affairs, he fubbled the execution so badly by piling on so many guest-stars and villains that he forgot to make us care about the title character in any meaningful way.

Every word is true.

[Karl O'Neill]

I really like the art in this issue, have not read it yet, it's stares me in the face on my desk here in work now, i so can't wait to read it

[jeangreydp]

I loved this issue. First time in ages I've ever been interested in Wonder Woman on her own.

Also loved the joke about WW not selling as well as Batman and Superman. Hilarity.

[Powerboy]

No, but I doubt when faced with the task of pumping their own gas they'd stare at the pump like a !@#$ing moron. That's how Diana looked this entire issue. Like a !@#$ing moron.

Um, Dubya stares like an idiot no matter what he's doing.

But yeah the humor was overplayed a bit too much to be believable but it was to emphasize the whole point that current WW has never tried to live as a normal human with a secret identity. She's always lived a bit above all that. She just flew where she needed to go and relied on her powers. Now had they implied that she didn't know how to use a hair dryer I would have thought it unbelievable but all her lacking of knowledge seemed to involve transportation and mundane things like going into a coffee shop, things WW never had to do.

I reacted the same way she did the first time I ever went into a 'modern' coffee shop and heard that Starbucks's 'venti' crap. Reminds me of a "Foamy the Squirrel" routine.
"I'll have a small coffee."
"No we no longer have small. We have large, grande and venti."
"So a small coffee is now called a large coffee, a medium is now a grande and a large is now a venti? Oh, I get it. If we call it a large, then I don't feel like an friggin idiot for paying three dollars for a small cup of coffee."

[Mr. Kent]

Ever since the previews I was a little surprised about how much difficulty Diana had. I guess even if she's been in this modernized world a while she's just out of practice when it comes to the simple stuff.

My only other complaint is one I share with Jack Zodiac--Nemesis was sort of whiny here. At least he looked awesome, though. Like, really awesome. Everyone did--the art was superb.

Overall this issue wasn't terrible--in fact, I rather liked it. Ms Picoult is certainly no hack writer and a successful novelist--I'm willing to show some patience with her here. And isn't this the first comic she's done? She'll get the hang of it before long, I'm sure.

[Jack Zodiac]

Um, Dubya stares like an idiot no matter what he's doing.

Comparing Wonder Woman to George W. Bush is probably a worse insult to her character than this issue.

She isn't new to man's world, she has lived like a normal person before, and whether or not she was used to the small things, reacting like she did in this issue made her look less competent than a child. The coffee shop joke was funny. The ten dollars for gas thing, kinda' funny. The lack of credit card, kind of unusual considering Batman was meant to set her up with a completely airtight fake identity. Looking at a gas pump like it was gonna' attack her? Mildly retarded. Dry humping a turnstile expecting it to move? Quite retarded. Crying because "everyone's making fun of Wonder Woman?" Ridiculous as hell.

I've seen enough of Picoult's characterization to know I don't think I'll ever like it. Thankfully, her run's only five issues.

[Cayman]

Also loved the joke about WW not selling as well as Batman and Superman. Hilarity.

Yeah, that was great. :p

[DonC]

Like has been said, I didn't care for the overuse of Diana not knowing common things. And Nemesis being a WW collector/total dork seemed out of place. And using Circe two storylines in a row could be bad.

Other than that, I liked the issue.



Was there anything other than that? :confused:

[AceOfSpades]

Like has been said, I didn't care for the overuse of Diana not knowing common things. And Nemesis being a WW collector/total dork seemed out of place. And using Circe two storylines in a row could be bad.

Other than that, I liked the issue.



Was there anything other than that? :confused:

Compared to the first few issues of WW, this was great. I think we are meant to forget those first four issues, none of the Circe stuff should have happened, and I'm perfectly happy to do so. Nemesis did come off in a poor light, but I thought he wasn't horrible, just a little immature. Oh well, I just hope it gets better.

[davids]

On tv or while she is flying over some gas station or one of her friends?

[Mr. Kent]

And using Circe two storylines in a row could be bad.

I'd agree, if the previous story was finished :rolleyes: But giving the ol' witch an extension on her appearance is all right by me in this case.

[shaxper]

Do you think any current ambassadors to the US pump their own gas or shop for their own groceries? Don't you remember when Bush I went shopping and he was amazed by the scanner in the check out line??

Before Diana ever became an ambassador, before she even became a superhero, she lived a semi-ordinary life with Julia and Vanessa in Boston. If she didn't pump gas herself during that time, she definitely saw it done. And she was taken clothes shopping during that time, so she knows what a credit card is. Diana was naive as all heck at the beginning of the post COIE Perez run but, by it's end, she'd done quite a bit of growing and learning. I don't buy this cute but inappropriate cluelessness.

This is one of the many inevitable problems with hiring an established fiction writer with absolutely no knowledge of comics to write one. The simple act of hiring them sends the message that novels have more integrity and importance than comics, so why should they bother to do any sort of significant research on their subjects? If I had to guess, I'd wager that Picoult read a few early Perez issues to get an idea of the character she was writing. That's not enough to get a full grasp of the character by any means.

[CarolStrick]

This is why comics supposedly have things called "editors." An editor informs a non-informed writer of what they need to know. They aim them in the right direction for needed research. If the story comes in with significant errors, the editor points them out so the writer can correct them, and if the writer does not, the editor corrects them. These errors can include errors in important continuity, errors in characterization, errors in placing the character where the title needs her to be, etc.

Wonder Woman needs an editor.

[Mr. Kent]

Right ~ I agree. Wasn't there anyone around to tell Ms. (or Mrs, I dunno) Picoult she might want to tone down the naivete a bit?

[Cayman]

Her naivete was exaggerated to make the point that living as a human was unfamiliar to Diana. Perhaps the editors failed to warn Picoult that Wonder Woman fans are apparently humorless grouches.

[Mr. Kent]

Oh, don't be like that Cayman :(

I said I like the issue, and I get the writer's point. Just a bit overplayed in my opinion. It's not like I'm dropping the book or anything :rolleyes:

Honest criticism does not = grouchiness, by the way

[Cayman]

Oh, don't be like that Cayman :(

I said I like the issue, and I get the writer's point. Just a bit overplayed in my opinion. It's not like I'm dropping the book or anything :rolleyes:

Honest criticism does not = grouchiness, by the way

Sorry, wasn't referring to your post, just to the online reaction in general.

[Mr. Kent]

Yeah, I know ~ I feel your pain

I like Circe and all, but I really cannot wait to see some other villains get some time to play. Wasn't one of the goals of Heinberg's run to boost some of her foes? I liked that he started with the big ones--Psycho, Cheetah, Giganta (a really big one :)) but I can't wait to see someone try Dr. Poison, or this Osira person I've seen glimpses of. I can't wait.

WW #7: I command thee to come out already!

[Jack Zodiac]

Perhaps the editors failed to warn Picoult that Wonder Woman fans are apparently humorless grouches.

I don't think that would've stopped her from writing pure crap, but ya' never know!

[Cayman]

I don't think that would've stopped her from writing pure crap, but ya' never know!

Well, I disagree that it was pure crap. :p I thought it was very entertaining, a word I haven't been able to associate with the WW comic very often over the last several years.

[drwho]

I have to say this issue read a lot better than Aquaman 50. I dont see why you are so insistent saying the writer for WW wrote bad when Aquaman 50 was much worse, but you dont seem so outraged about that.

[Jack Zodiac]

It's hard to be outraged by bad writing in Aquaman considering the amount of horrible crap has already been done to that book. With Wonder Woman, though, what Picoult did here was ignore... practically the last couple decades worth of character development so she could write her half-ass "I don't belong in Man's World" story. It's like they gave her the first Perez Wonder Woman trade, she skimmed it, and started winging it with the script.

[Cayman]

It's hard to be outraged by bad writing in Aquaman considering the amount of horrible crap has already been done to that book. With Wonder Woman, though, what Picoult did here was ignore... practically the last couple decades worth of character development so she could write her half-ass "I don't belong in Man's World" story. It's like they gave her the first Perez Wonder Woman trade, she skimmed it, and started winging it with the script.

I would assume that when she was hired to write the arc, it was with the understanding that she would follow the current editorial direction.

[Jack Zodiac]

No direction at all, then. Gotcha'. I completely agree.

[Cayman]

No direction at all, then. Gotcha'. I completely agree.

Whether we like it or not, the Diana Prince Secret Agent storyline is the what DC wants to do with the book right now.

[Jack Zodiac]

You know that isn't my problem with the character right now, but !@#$ it. I'm done slamming the book for at least the next four issues.

[carabas]

Whether we like it or not, the Diana Prince Secret Agent storyline is the what DC wants to do with the book right now.
Doing the Special Agent Diana Prince storyline in no way conflicts with Diana having an IQ that is in the tripple (or at least double) digits.

This issue was leaps and bounds above the #1-4. Still the worst book in my stack this week, and only about half as readable as last month's fill-in issue.

Only one way to go from here: cancel the book now, and relaunch vol. 2 in half a year or so, when a dedicated writer has signed on for 2+ years?

[Black Atom]

Doing the Special Agent Diana Prince storyline in no way conflicts with Diana having an IQ that is in the tripple (or at least double) digits.


Yes, but playing up her naivete is good way of making her more accessible/likeable, especially to new readers, which DC seems intent to pull in with this book. Frankly, I don't think it's a bad way to go, even if Picoult did overplay it in this issue.

[Damo]

I'm frankly amazed at the positive reviews here, as I've seen it almost universally slammed elsewhere (up to and including dubbing the new incarnation of Diana "Wonder 'Tard"). I've got to say I'm among the haters. Seeing Nemesis written as a bumbling boor (a wiki search would be enough to show how OOC he is) and being beaten over the head with "Diana has no idea what she's doing" is not my idea of a good or amusing read. I don't think that makes me humorless, I just don't find Diana being written as incompetent to be very funny. Sorry, but she's meant to have been in "The Man's World" for over ten years now, but she's acting like she got off the boat yesterday. Previous writers have had her spending time with her friends, going shopping, working in a Taco Hut, watching TV... more to the point she's been an ambassador trying to reach people for years. But apparently in the New Earth timeline she never turned on a TV and watched some shows for a few hours to try and learn about us. Apparently she's spent years preaching to mankind without doing much to familiarize herself with our lives. Yes dear, credit cards are used for money, cars need to be pumped, and you have to pay to use the subway. Some of the dialogue was pretty cringe-inducing. I really didn't want to see the return of heroes clumsily giving away their secret identities in everyday conversations like "But my... I mean Wonder Woman's lasso". Having Circe return as the villain again just doesn't interest me. Been there, done that, frequently.

I'll keep reading to see if it improves, but for the moment I'm joining the ranks praying for Gail Simone, Morrison, or Perez to get the book instead of keeping Picoult on.

[Powerboy]

If this was on the level of the slapstick comedy routine that the Justice League became immediately post COIE, I would drop it instantly. But I think most people are praising it in comparison to the first four issues of the new numbering. In comparison to what was being done with Wonder Woman in the series that ran from the COIE to the end of that numbering, what is currently being done with her is all crap. The first four issues just did not work at all. Nobody wanted Donna Troy to become WW and Diana Prince to be in the book but not WW (now a completely new person becoming WW might have worked but we'll never know).

Were I to make one criticism of all of the first six issues, it would be that it feels totally "comic book" in all the worst stereotyped ways. Strangely, I mostly get that feeling when Diana is "Agent Prince". When she is WW, it feels different. Maybe issue number 5 was a bit heavy-handed to convey the "inspiration to women" storyline but that was where it at least felt less corny.

Bottom line is that I can't see this "Agent Diana Prince" thing lasting for long because it just is NOT working. The problem is the writers are trying to make it feel as if everything that happened with WW before is just being dropped in favor of a more socially acceptable or politically correct or whatever WW. All the storylines of the old series have been dismissed. The Amazons are gone. She isn't an ambassador anymore. The entire situation has changed.

Some of the absolute best stuff that has ever been done with WW was done in the previous run. Now the attempt is to get more sales by changing it to something that might appeal to a broader audience. But I think it's losing readers that were already there, the ones that loved the substance the series had.

I'm frankly amazed at the positive reviews here, as I've seen it almost universally slammed elsewhere (up to and including dubbing the new incarnation of Diana "Wonder 'Tard"). I've got to say I'm among the haters. Seeing Nemesis written as a bumbling boor (a wiki search would be enough to show how OOC he is) and being beaten over the head with "Diana has no idea what she's doing" is not my idea of a good or amusing read. I don't think that makes me humorless, I just don't find Diana being written as incompetent to be very funny. Sorry, but she's meant to have been in "The Man's World" for over ten years now, but she's acting like she got off the boat yesterday. Previous writers have had her spending time with her friends, going shopping, working in a Taco Hut, watching TV... more to the point she's been an ambassador trying to reach people for years. But apparently in the New Earth timeline she never turned on a TV and watched some shows for a few hours to try and learn about us. Apparently she's spent years preaching to mankind without doing much to familiarize herself with our lives. Yes dear, credit cards are used for money, cars need to be pumped, and you have to pay to use the subway. Some of the dialogue was pretty cringe-inducing. I really didn't want to see the return of heroes clumsily giving away their secret identities in everyday conversations like "But my... I mean Wonder Woman's lasso". Having Circe return as the villain again just doesn't interest me. Been there, done that, frequently.

I'll keep reading to see if it improves, but for the moment I'm joining the ranks praying for Gail Simone, Morrison, or Perez to get the book instead of keeping Picoult on.

[Cayman]

Bottom line is that I can't see this "Agent Diana Prince" thing lasting for long because it just is NOT working.


I agree with that. I prefer Diana not to have a civilian identity.

[mgs]

I really loved this one. For me, this book is getting better and better with every issue. :)

[jadrax]

I enjoyed it.

(Mind I also cannot order coffee, get past one of those confounded barrier things quickly and haven't had to use a petrol pump in years.)

[DDM]

This is why comics supposedly have things called "editors." An editor informs a non-informed writer of what they need to know. They aim them in the right direction for needed research. If the story comes in with significant errors, the editor points them out so the writer can correct them, and if the writer does not, the editor corrects them. These errors can include errors in important continuity, errors in characterization, errors in placing the character where the title needs her to be, etc.

Wonder Woman needs an editor.

Wonder Woman needs an enthusiastic editor who wants the book. The current editorial team seems to be asleep at the wheel. However, the reboot is a disaster no matter how anyone can try to spin it.

Wonder Woman needs a committed comic book writer. She does not have one now at the writer or editorial level.

Before Diana ever became an ambassador, before she even became a superhero, she lived a semi-ordinary life with Julia and Vanessa in Boston. If she didn't pump gas herself during that time, she definitely saw it done. And she was taken clothes shopping during that time, so she knows what a credit card is. Diana was naive as all heck at the beginning of the post COIE Perez run but, by it's end, she'd done quite a bit of growing and learning. I don't buy this cute but inappropriate cluelessness.

This is one of the many inevitable problems with hiring an established fiction writer with absolutely no knowledge of comics to write one. The simple act of hiring them sends the message that novels have more integrity and importance than comics, so why should they bother to do any sort of significant research on their subjects? If I had to guess, I'd wager that Picoult read a few early Perez issues to get an idea of the character she was writing. That's not enough to get a full grasp of the character by any means.

Yes, I grew up on the rebooted George Perez Wonder Woman. I know those stories very well. I wish the editors would know their craft in comics. Apparently, they don't know Wonder Woman.

The new writer has not impressed me. Sure, her story is leaps & bounds an improvement over Heiniberg (sp?), but that's not saying much. Compare this story to George Perez's Wonder Woman then there's no comparison. George Perez & friends beat this female writer out of the ball park everytime. In the meantime, to continue the baseball metaphor, she seems like she's just learning baseball while playing with the pros.

[Fatguy]

I picked up #6 to see how the new writer would do (didnt like the first couple issues of Heinburg's(sp?) Wonder Woman, and dropped it). I found the issue to be completely obnoxious, I ended up being annoyed almost the entire issue. Sorry, but I thought it was terrible and will be waiting for the NEXT writer now...:(

I really want to like this book.

[kal_el21]

I really loved this one. For me, this book is getting better and better with every issue. :)

I agree. DC did not have to relaunch this title and did more harm than good to the character by the relaunch and letting it be handled by Heinberg. I'm sure he had good intentions and ideas but with his scheduling conflicts and then not even finishing his arc has been detremental to the title.

[Bored at 3:00AM]

I don't think this new Wonder Woman is completely beholden to what Perez did to her origin. This is a whole new character with a whole new history that hasn't been written yet. The broad strokes are there, but we really don't know how different her history is. Since she's back as a JLA founder, but she wasn't Diana Prince till now....except when she was white pant suited Diana Prince with I-Ching.

If this new Wonder Woman was more sheltered than the previous one, that's fine with me. It was funny. Wonder Woman hasn't been funny in a while. That is a good thing, even if it makes Wonder Woman look a bit clueless at times. Superman looks like a putz all the time. Batman is a trumendous Douchebag. They're The Big Two. Why can't Wonder Woman be a bit of a pampered Princess who hasn't really spent that much time doing mundane crap before.

[Bored at 3:00AM]

I agree. DC did not have to relaunch this title and did more harm than good to the character by the relaunch and letting it be handled by Heinberg. I'm sure he had good intentions and ideas but with his scheduling conflicts and then not even finishing his arc has been detremental to the title.

I agree. I know they wanted Heinberg. I wanted Heinberg. I mean, one of the creators of The OC (back when that meant something) doing a new take on Wonder Woman. That shoulda been Dynamite in a Can. But Heinberg knew he didn't have enough time to do it. And DC knew he didn't have time to do it. But then they did it anyway and it blew up in their faces, 'cause, guess what, he didn't have enough time to do it.

[Darth Joker]

Continuity issues aside, this isn't a bad comic. The artwork is exceptional, and the interjection of some humour is always good.

Also, Circe is probably Wonder Woman's best villain... there's a reason why she was a member of the original Injustice Gang, guys.

Aside from creating a brand new villain for Wonder Woman, and/or continuing to build up Veronica Cale, I approve with the idea of trying to build Circe up, and using her like Batman comics uses the Joker, and Superman comics uses Lex Luthor.

My one complaint is that it makes Batman look really bad for failing to set Wonder Woman up with a credit card. Nice job helping out your JLA team-mate's civilian identity there, Mr. Billionaire. :rolleyes:

[Cayman]

I think Heinberg's run would've been more successful if he'd had a better starting point to work from.

[The Shadow]

Only one way to go from here: cancel the book now, and relaunch vol. 2 in half a year or so
That would make it Volume 4 actually ;)

when a dedicated writer has signed on for 2+ years?
#'s 195 to 226 is 31 straight issues that Greg Rucka was the writer.

They rushed the ending so they could cancel it (thanks Infinite Crisis :rolleyes: ) and pretty much undid the great stories and writing he set up over that time.

DC seems to want the flashy writers (even though Rucka is a novelist himself :confused: ) over consistency.

So far the series (and Batman felt like this from Hush to the end of Infinite Crisis) has felt like a series of mini series' within the main book. There's no consistency that a long term writer would bring, not subtle weaving of subplots and no big payoffs at the end... just a series of miscellaneous adventures that happen to star the same person who's characterization varies from arc to arc.

[batturtle]

So why is Wonder Woman an idiot all of a sudden?
Stiffled by a gas pump.
Unfamiliar with the concept of a coffee shop.
Stumped by a turn-stile.

I see where the writer is trying to go with this turm of events...but it might work better with another character. Someone brand new to the planet say.

[DDM]

So why is Wonder Woman an idiot all of a sudden?
Stiffled by a gas pump.
Unfamiliar with the concept of a coffee shop.
Stumped by a turn-stile.

I see where the writer is trying to go with this turm of events...but it might work better with another character. Someone brand new to the planet say.

For Wonder Woman who has the wisdom of Athena, she's suddenly gone...dumb. She's been in Man's World long enough how to all of these things. I just believe all of these examples just show the new writer's ignorance of Wonder Woman's post-Crisis history.

[DDM]

I think Heinberg's run would've been more successful if he'd had a better starting point to work from.

I would give more to Heinberg's stories if he kept a schedule so Wonder Woman would be released on time. Heinberg should be embarrased he cannot even finish his story before this new writer takes over.

[shaxper]

I don't think this new Wonder Woman is completely beholden to what Perez did to her origin. This is a whole new character with a whole new history that hasn't been written yet. The broad strokes are there, but we really don't know how different her history is.

I would agree with that assumption if every other title to come out of Infinite Crisis hadn't already proven that DC has no clear reboot agenda. Practically no attention has been given to any significant details changing in any character's past history up until this point. Batman and Guy Gardner are nicer. That's about all they've come up with.

Infinite Crisis was less of a "soft reboot" and more of a "huh? Umm, yeah" sort of thing. Yes, there's some vague idea at play about giving Diana more past history with the JLA, but I doubt that anything's been planned or discussed seriously beyond that. Besides, this establishes that Diana has been in America longer than in the post-Crisis Perez era. Why would that make her more naive of modern living?

[Bored at 3:00AM]

Besides, this establishes that Diana has been in America longer than in the post-Crisis Perez era. Why would that make her more naive of modern living?

Because this Wonder Woman spent more time on Paradise Island or JLA Headquarters or the various Themyscarian Embassies or up in Mount Olympus than she ever did taking the subway, filling her gas tank or ordering her own coffee. It's not like Wonder Woman was living a normal life during all the years she's been in Man's World.

Works for me anyway. I don't really care if it's implausible. How plausible is it that a 6 foot tall uber-babe walking around in star-spangled panties would be taken seriously as an Ambassador? If you can swallow that idea, why not the idea that this Wonder Woman was more removed from the mundane realities of the common people?

[Young Avenger]

This issue flat out sucked. I must have missed something because something must have happened to Diana since she has become a retard. She's been living in man's world for how long now and she doesn't know what credit cards are and can't get past a turnstile? I felt my intellence was insulted after finishing this issue. Heinberg might hand in his stuff late but it's way better than this waste of $3.

[DDM]

I felt my intellence was insulted after finishing this issue. Heinberg might hand in his stuff late but it's way better than this waste of $3.

"Late" is an understatement. His books are simply more than late but ridiculously late to the point he should not write the book at all.

[Hawkman]

I actually would've liked this issue had it been about a new hero with an origin similar to Wonder Woman's. For Diana herself, though, it's just foolishness. As has already been repeated to death in this thread, she's far too naive for someone with her past history. Perhaps DC is attempting to lure in new fans, and that's why they approved this direction, but in the process they're alienating WW's long-time fans.

I'm really upset over how this title has turned out. If my disappointment continues for another couple of issues, I'll be dropping it, unfortunately. Too bad too, as with how the last volume ended I had hopes for this relaunch.

[shaxper]

Works for me anyway. I don't really care if it's implausible. How plausible is it that a 6 foot tall uber-babe walking around in star-spangled panties would be taken seriously as an Ambassador? If you can swallow that idea, why not the idea that this Wonder Woman was more removed from the mundane realities of the common people?

She wasn't taken seriously by everyone at first. But when people began to take her seriously, it was very believable to me. I think, for anyone that was there for the Perez issues, this premise is going to be unacceptable precisely because it was written by and for people who know of Wonder Woman without having read the real modern age version. Sure, it seems like she'd be super naive, but the readers who were there know that doesn't fit who Diana is. It's a logical interpretation to a newcomer that sees WW as a 6 foot tall uber-babe that everyone magically takes seriously. No disrespect intended. It's just that your understanding of Diana is less complex than mine, and it's therefore easier for you to accept this new premise.

[carabas]

To put it in words non-fans can relate to: what would you think of a writer who wrote Batman as gung-ho, trigger happy Punisher type vigilante? And then have that writer explain in an interview that he didn't really know Batman, but had done some research on the character.

[Young Avenger]

"Late" is an understatement. His books are simply more than late but ridiculously late to the point he should not write the book at all.

It might have took Heinberg a year to write three issues but at least those issues didn't suck.

[Lurch]

To put it in words non-fans can relate to: what would you think of a writer who wrote Batman as gung-ho, trigger happy Punisher type vigilante? And then have that writer explain in an interview that he didn't really know Batman, but had done some research on the character.

Nice comparison. Same could be said of somebody coming in and messing with the Superman mythos. Like they suddenly turned him into a wimpy guy who always doubts himself, and then they throw in an illegitimate child just for the hell of it.

Oh wait...Nevermind.

[jadrax]

To put it in words non-fans can relate to: what would you think of a writer who wrote Batman as gung-ho, trigger happy Punisher type vigilante? And then have that writer explain in an interview that he didn't really know Batman, but had done some research on the character.

Not sure the comparison holds up.

Depends really on who you think Wonder Woman is I suppose. The core concept, to me at least, would not really have been altered OYL, indeed in some ways it's been returned too.

"What would you think of a writer that totally ignored War-Games" might be a comparison closer to the truth.

[carabas]

Not sure the comparison holds up.

Depends really on who you think Wonder Woman is I suppose. The core concept, to me at least, would not really have been altered OYL, indeed in some ways it's been returned too.
The core concept of Wonder Woman is not a dim-witted, naive messenger from the gods who is completely and utterly unfamiliar with Western civilisation. That's only what she started out as at the beginning of the reboot, 20 years ago. It'd be like portraying the OYL Batman as a guy who only recently came up with the idea of dressing up in a Dracula suit to fight crime

"What would you think of a writer that totally ignored War-Games" might be a comparison closer to the truth.
Don't you think that the writer who wrote War Games is a better comparison? Considering that the Batman from War Games was a single-digit IQ amateur?
I think pretty much all writers since have completely ignored War Games as much as possible.

[Darth Joker]

Out of curiousity, how well have these six issues of Wonder Woman sold?

If they're selling better than Wonder Woman typically sells, then bringing in new fans is probably worth a soft continuity reboot of sorts...

[Kintales]

Drew Johnson's art was pretty good and Diana's naivety is a wee bit exaggerated. Maybe Picoult is trying to imply that Diana Prince similar to Clark Kent is trying to hide her true identity by creating a naive, dumb bumbling image and alter ego. (We know wearing glasses only, doesn't cut it ;) )

At the same time, perhaps she is injecting light humorous moments in WW stories that have been missing :) I'm looking forward to her coming issues.

[carabas]

Out of curiousity, how well have these six issues of Wonder Woman sold?

If they're selling better than Wonder Woman typically sells, then bringing in new fans is probably worth a soft continuity reboot of sorts...

http://pwbeat.publishersweekly.com/blog/2007/01/02/dc-comics-month-to-month-sales-november-2006/#more-1426

11/2003: Wonder Woman #198 — 28,977

11/2004: Wonder Woman #210 — 25,699

————————————-

11/2005: Wonder Woman #223 — 49,332 (+ 4.8%)

12/2005: Wonder Woman #224 — 47,224 (- 4.3%)

01/2006: Wonder Woman #225 — 42,661 (- 9.7%)

02/2006: Wonder Woman #226 — 45,682 (+ 7.1%)

03/2006: –

04/2006: –

05/2006: –

06/2006: Wonder Woman #1 — 132,580 (+190.2%) [139,562]

07/2006: –

08/2006: Wonder Woman #2 — 84,618 (- 36.2%) [ 87,276]

09/2006: –

10/2006: –

11/2006: Wonder Woman #3 — 76,998 (- 9.0%)

—————–

6 months: n.a.

1 year : + 56.1%

2 years : +199.6%Issue #3 was initially meant to be out back in August, before DC changed their mind and announced that Wonder Woman was now on a bi-monthly schedule. When Wonder Woman #3 finally came out in November, three months, rather than two, had passed since the previous issue, of course, but let’s not split hairs.

While the relaunched title’s sales were impressive early on, half of them are gone already, which may be the sort of thing DC editor Dan Didio means when he calls the target audience a fickle lot in interviews. The current writer will be replaced with issue #6, meanwhile, suggesting that someone at DC is less than happy with the situation.

[Kummi]

the depiction of the characters (particularly tom tresser) was sooo OUT OF CHARACTER the whole affair is just ugly.

have somebody like simonson write WW, not this novelist.

[Mia]

Ah book Nazi's. God love 'em!:D


Because this Wonder Woman spent more time on Paradise Island or JLA Headquarters or the various Themyscarian Embassies or up in Mount Olympus than she ever did taking the subway, filling her gas tank or ordering her own coffee. It's not like Wonder Woman was living a normal life during all the years she's been in Man's World.



Yeah that's what it read like to me. She just came across like someone who did not have to do the 'daily grind'. Who was now thrust into that kind of life. Your essential 'fish out of water' story. None of it is implausible.


Not that I haven't gotten ticked about some of my favourite characters not always been shown in a favourable light. But I try not to nit pick at silly details. I think it's unreasonable to expect an author to follow every bit of minutia happened to a character. Especially when that character is decades old.

As long as the essence is there I don't bother to get upset. For me, I'm enjoying the story so far, far more than when Rucka was on it.
Picoult has a wicked wit.

[Jack Zodiac]

In Superman #661 this week, Kurt Busiek wrote a story about Diana attending a women's shelter benefit at a museum with Clark and Lois. The villainess of the story stole Superman's strength and then kidnapped him, which threw Diana and Lois in the unique position of having to find and rescue him. That alone is awesome, because it's the strongest Wonder Woman's been written at all in the past year, between her own book and JLA.

In one scene, Diana and Lois go to an Internet café to look up some information about the villainess, Khyrana, whose "secret identity" is that of the woman who set up the benefit. Anyway, they go to this café and Diana makes a simple remark about the idea of a "computer cafeteria." She doesn't come off as ignorant, because she knows damn well what computers are and how to use them, but the idea of a computer café is new to her. No eating computers or banging on the keyboard like a monkey, or picking up the mouse and looking at it moronically going, "This isn't a mammal!" Just, "huh, a café where people hang out an use computers. Weird."

Picoult didn't write a "fish out of water" story, she wrote a "Freaky Friday" story with some off-panel five year old.

[carabas]

Indeed. Writing a 'fish out of water' story is one thing (and a thing that is at this point rather inapropriate for the character unles it's in a flashback), writing Diana to be entirely unfamiliar with the concept of credit cards is just stupid.

[Corrina]

"What would you think of a writer that totally ignored War-Games" might be a comparison closer to the truth.

I'd be so happy that he did that. :)

[jadrax]

I'd be so happy that he did that. :)

Bah, someone who ranted about how Wonder Woman ignoring continuously was bad was supposed to say that so I could point out their double standards! ;o)

[Powerboy]

I read that one only because WW was in it and yes, it was a WW that was strong and in character. It could serve as a good example of how to write her and get the book back on track.

In Superman #661 this week, Kurt Busiek wrote a story about Diana attending a women's shelter benefit at a museum with Clark and Lois. The villainess of the story stole Superman's strength and then kidnapped him, which threw Diana and Lois in the unique position of having to find and rescue him. That alone is awesome, because it's the strongest Wonder Woman's been written at all in the past year, between her own book and JLA.

In one scene, Diana and Lois go to an Internet café to look up some information about the villainess, Khyrana, whose "secret identity" is that of the woman who set up the benefit. Anyway, they go to this café and Diana makes a simple remark about the idea of a "computer cafeteria." She doesn't come off as ignorant, because she knows damn well what computers are and how to use them, but the idea of a computer café is new to her. No eating computers or banging on the keyboard like a monkey, or picking up the mouse and looking at it moronically going, "This isn't a mammal!" Just, "huh, a café where people hang out an use computers. Weird."

Picoult didn't write a "fish out of water" story, she wrote a "Freaky Friday" story with some off-panel five year old.

[Darth Joker]

In Superman #661 this week, Kurt Busiek wrote a story about Diana attending a women's shelter benefit at a museum with Clark and Lois. The villainess of the story stole Superman's strength and then kidnapped him, which threw Diana and Lois in the unique position of having to find and rescue him. That alone is awesome, because it's the strongest Wonder Woman's been written at all in the past year, between her own book and JLA.

In one scene, Diana and Lois go to an Internet café to look up some information about the villainess, Khyrana, whose "secret identity" is that of the woman who set up the benefit. Anyway, they go to this café and Diana makes a simple remark about the idea of a "computer cafeteria." She doesn't come off as ignorant, because she knows damn well what computers are and how to use them, but the idea of a computer café is new to her. No eating computers or banging on the keyboard like a monkey, or picking up the mouse and looking at it moronically going, "This isn't a mammal!" Just, "huh, a café where people hang out an use computers. Weird."

Picoult didn't write a "fish out of water" story, she wrote a "Freaky Friday" story with some off-panel five year old.

In fairness, there's little doubt WW has encountered computers before (on the Watchtower itself, I would think)... but gas pumps, and turnstiles?

Not that I can recall.

Heck, I could use computers well long before I ever used a gas pump to fill up my car.

[Jack Zodiac]

The point was, she was confronted with something new and didn't approach the idea like an idiot. Staring at a gas pump bewildered or dry humping a turnstile is just plain stupid.

[carabas]

And gas pumps and turn styles are one thing, but credit cards? The JLA used to have their own brand IIRC.

[Mia]

In Superman #661 this week, Kurt Busiek wrote a story about Diana attending a women's shelter benefit at a museum with Clark and Lois. The villainess of the story stole Superman's strength and then kidnapped him, which threw Diana and Lois in the unique position of having to find and rescue him. That alone is awesome, because it's the strongest Wonder Woman's been written at all in the past year, between her own book and JLA.

In one scene, Diana and Lois go to an Internet café to look up some information about the villainess, Khyrana, whose "secret identity" is that of the woman who set up the benefit. Anyway, they go to this café and Diana makes a simple remark about the idea of a "computer cafeteria." She doesn't come off as ignorant, because she knows damn well what computers are and how to use them, but the idea of a computer café is new to her. No eating computers or banging on the keyboard like a monkey, or picking up the mouse and looking at it moronically going, "This isn't a mammal!" Just, "huh, a café where people hang out an use computers. Weird.".

And she didn't behave like the way you described in this issue. Yes she was confused in some instances. For example the coffee house, and the pretentious terms for the different sizes of coffe. None of which mean 'small' 'medium' or 'extra large'. And she probably was unfamiliar with how a turn style works from not having to use it.

Like I said I like continuity and I like characters written in character.
But I'm not going to turn into a book Nazi because an author strayed slightly or did some different than what happened in another book.




Picoult didn't write a "fish out of water" story, she wrote a "Freaky Friday" story with some off-panel five year old.

Sorry I don't get the co-relation. Isn't 'Freaky Friday' a story about a teenage girl waking up in her mothers body? Nothing like that is remotely happening in this story.

[Cayman]

I'm sure Diana knew what credit cards were, it just didn't occur to her that she would need one.

[Jack Zodiac]

And she didn't behave like the way you described in this issue.

You must've gotten some kind of variant issue where Picoult didn't write her like an idiot, because the one I read had her staring at a gas pump like it was going to eat her and later had her approaching a turnstile like it was run by magic.

I'm not being a "continuity Nazi," though Jodi very obviously didn't do much research on the character at all; I'm just very unenthusiastic about the character taking a step backwards in characterization in order for a subpar writer to bring the book down to her level. Given the proper writer, I could be a rah-rah cheerleader about Diana's new life and the return of her secret identity, but aside from the one issue of Superman, not even her own book for cryin' outloud, everything I've seen from her has been horrible.

Oh, and the "Freaky Friday" joke couldn't have been that hard to get. Mind-swap, Wonder Woman, five year old kid... c'mon. I'm gonna' blame that on your mind being warped beyond repair by this issue.

[Cayman]

You must've gotten some kind of variant issue where Picoult didn't write her like an idiot, because the one I read had her staring at a gas pump like it was going to eat her and later had her approaching a turnstile like it was run by magic.


Aw, she just didn't realize she had to slip a little card in to make it spin.

[Mia]

You must've gotten some kind of variant issue where Picoult didn't write her like an idiot, because the one I read had her staring at a gas pump like it was going to eat her and later had her approaching a turnstile like it was run by magic..

I'm not being a "continuity Nazi," though Jodi very obviously didn't do much research on the character at all; I'm just very unenthusiastic about the character taking a step backwards in characterization in order for a subpar writer to bring the book down to her level. Given the proper writer, I could be a rah-rah cheerleader about Diana's new life and the return of her secret identity, but aside from the one issue of Superman, not even her own book for cryin' outloud, everything I've seen from her has been horrible.
.

You call her an idiot. I call her someone who is an unfamiliar with a particular environment. I don't see her as being an idiot if she was I would have picked up on it immediatly. I don't like stupid characters. Especially female ones.


If I was that stringent and uptight because an author didn't follow every, single aspect of a book that followed previously. Then I wouldn't bother to follow and collect comic books in the first place. Because no author is going to follow ever point that has occured in another book. I just don't believe nit picking over trivialities.



Oh, and the "Freaky Friday" joke couldn't have been that hard to get. Mind-swap, Wonder Woman, five year old kid... c'mon. I'm gonna' blame that on your mind being warped beyond repair by this issue.

No it wasn't hard to get at all. I know what the 'Freaky Friday' story is all about. And what happened in this story has no co-relation to that story. I also think that if she had the 'mind of a five year old' like you've stated she would be able to hold down a job.

[Powerboy]

It sort of reminds me of the first time I ever used a microwave and was accused of being a moron because I didn't just automatically know you don't put metal in a microwave (this was in the mid 1980s and it turns out the person that said that had just gotten yelled at for doing the same thing).

As for the subway turnstiles, a previous post by Cayman pointed out how you use those turnstiles. I didn't know how to use them either. Why not? Because I live in a city where we don't have a subway system. I have never used a subway. Just like Wonder Woman.

Also, the first time I used a gas pump, way back, it took a minute and when they became computerized and I had to use one for the first time after years of not driving, I'm sure I looked at it stupidly and the person with me walked me through my first use. Again, the comedy was pushed to the max in WW but lack of familiarity is not stupidity.

You call her an idiot. I call her someone who is an unfamiliar with a particular environment. I don't see her as being an idiot if she was I would have picked up on it immediatly. I don't like stupid characters. Especially female ones.


If I was that stringent and uptight because an author didn't follow every, single aspect of a book that followed previously. Then I wouldn't bother to follow and collect comic books in the first place. Because no author is going to follow ever point that has occured in another book. I just don't believe nit picking over trivialities.




No it wasn't hard to get at all. I know what the 'Freaky Friday' story is all about. And what happened in this story has no co-relation to that story. I also think that if she had the 'mind of a five year old' like you've stated she would be able to hold down a job.

[Bored at 3:00AM]

She wasn't taken seriously by everyone at first. But when people began to take her seriously, it was very believable to me. I think, for anyone that was there for the Perez issues, this premise is going to be unacceptable precisely because it was written by and for people who know of Wonder Woman without having read the real modern age version. Sure, it seems like she'd be super naive, but the readers who were there know that doesn't fit who Diana is. It's a logical interpretation to a newcomer that sees WW as a 6 foot tall uber-babe that everyone magically takes seriously. No disrespect intended. It's just that your understanding of Diana is less complex than mine, and it's therefore easier for you to accept this new premise.

Wow, I'm soooo glad there was no disrespect intended, because your understanding of my understanding of Wonder Woman is remarkably condecending. While I enjoyed his run when it first came out over 20 years ago, I don't consider George Perez's version of Wonder Woman to be "the real modern age version". There is no real version of Wonder Woman anymore than there's a real version of Superman or Batman or Spider-Man. There's simply a lot of different interpretations of her. She's a fictional character that's been written in vastly different ways by vastly different creators over a span of several decades. This version of Wonder Woman is not the Perez version anymore than she's the Rucka version or the kinky proto-feminist Golden Age version.

This version is more of a sheltered, pampered princess that's coming down to Earth for first time in her long career as a super-heroine. She's naturally going to be a bit bewildered by some of the world's more mundane elements. If that makes her look a little clueless at times, that's not the end of the world. It's just an interpretation of Wonder Woman you don't enjoy. Just stop reading and wait until Gail Simone takes over.

[Bored at 3:00AM]

I'm sure Diana knew what credit cards were, it just didn't occur to her that she would need one.

Exactly. There's a huuuuuuuuge difference between what actually happened in the story and what people are trying to make it out to be. Diana wasn't confused about what credit cards, coffee or turnstiles are, she just never had to use them before. Why on Earth would Wonder Woman ever need a credit card prior to this point? When exactly would Wonder Woman--who can FLY--ever need to use a turnstile? Why would Wonder Woman ever be going down to the local Starbucks to order a coffee?

She wasn't running around during the story going "DUH! What AM credit crad!? Me No underSTAND!" or anything.

[Bored at 3:00AM]

Aw, she just didn't realize she had to slip a little card in to make it spin.

Same thing happened to my girlfriend a couple days ago when she was taking the subway for the first time in a few years. I guess that means she's an idiot or a retard too....

...or maybe it just means she's a human being who doesn't know everything.