New Excalibur or New X-Men or X-Factor?

[Neverwinter]

Hello all. I'm a newbie and I would like to hear your suggestions on something.

I am getting back into comics after a long absence and I can only afford a few titles. I like mainly mainstream characters and central/current Marvel Universe storylines and I am not interested in minor characters or peripheral storylines.

Art is also important. I like good paper, glossy pages, fewer and larger panels, and high detail. I dislike a lot of panels on the page and impressionistic, stylistic or cartoonish art if you know what I mean.

Yes, I know. :o I am a tool for The Man but that's what I like. I can't help it.

Taking all that into consideration, I have eliminated a lot of titles and I am only picking up Amazing Spider-Man, Captain America, Iron Man, Incredible Hulk, New and Mighty Avengers, Wolverine, Fantastic Four, X-Men and Uncanny X-Men at the moment; but I can't decide between which of the other X-Men comics I should get.

I can only afford one of them. Should I get New X-Men, X-Factor, or New Excalibur?

What are the differences between them?

Which of these books has more classic, traditional, and iconic X-Men as members?

Are any of them more contained single-issue storylines or more ongoing plot multiple issue storylines?

Do any of them deal more with classic mythology and villains or with new characters, situations and villains.

Are any of these three comic books more detached from the bigger Marvel/X-Men Universes and concentrate more on the main characters or do they touch on the happenings of the Marvel/X-Men Universe and how the main characters relate to other heroes outside their books?

Are any of them more about the main characters or more about the main characters circle of friends and enemies?

Are any of them more humorous or action oriented on the one hand or dramatic and emotional oriented on the other?

What other titles in the Marvel Universe would you suggest for me to get that would comply with my tastes and interests?

Thank you for any help you guys can give me in order to make a decision.

[Hi-Fi]

X-Factor and New X-Men: awesome stuff!! I recommend both of them.


New Excalibur: Really bad, in my opinion.

[blinkinrogue]

by all accounts, xfactor, though u might want to collect the first arc, especially 1-3 which were really good issues....

[jarrod]

X-Factor >> New X-Men >> New Excalibur

...which is funny, because...

Excalibur (V1) >> New Mutants (V1) >> X-Factor (V1)

[chickrockguitar]

New X-Men is awesome! :D

[Pach!]

New X-men and X-factor are both favorites of mine....NEX I wouldn't recommend at all. I dropped it after giving it a lot of chances to improve.

[Beast]

With the upcoming crossover, I'd recommend trying to add both New X-Men and X-Factor to your pull list. Especially since you get Uncanny and X-Men now. New Excalibur isn't for everyone. I enjoy it, but maybe you should take an afternoon at Barnes and Noble and read the first trade.

[Mariah]

X-Factor is the best of the three by far. New X-Men is finally starting to realize it's own potential, and I would avoid New Excalibur like the plague. Unless you like Sage or Captain Britian, as they are the only characters written in character.

[Pach!]

Since no one really answered your questions in detail I'll give it a try, you might need more help with opinions for NEX since I dropped it and don't like it at all.


Hello all. I'm a newbie and I would like to hear your suggestions on something.

I am getting back into comics after a long absence and I can only afford a few titles. I like mainly mainstream characters and central/current Marvel Universe storylines and I am not interested in minor characters or peripheral storylines.

Art is also important. I like good paper, glossy pages, fewer and larger panels, and high detail. I dislike a lot of panels on the page and impressionistic, stylistic or cartoonish art if you know what I mean.

Yes, I know. :o I am a tool for The Man but that's what I like. I can't help it.

Taking all that into consideration, I have eliminated a lot of titles and I am only picking up Amazing Spider-Man, Captain America, Iron Man, Incredible Hulk, New and Mighty Avengers, Wolverine, Fantastic Four, X-Men and Uncanny X-Men at the moment; but I can't decide between which of the other X-Men comics I should get.

We have a really similar pull list!

I can only afford one of them. Should I get New X-Men, X-Factor, or New Excalibur?
I’d personally suggest New X-men since you say you are just getting back into the X-men, because that means you won’t have to deal with decimation that’s going on now with X-factor. I should point out that X-factor is beyond amazing, I just thought it might be confusing to jump into X-factor.

What are the differences between them?
New X-men is the next generation of X-men in training, they are completely different mutants then you may be used to. It’s is a fun, action oriented comic, doesn’t require a great deal of thinking. Just some laid back fun

X-factor has a darker tone to it. It follows Madrox, Wolfsbane, M, Strong Guy, Syrin, Rictor and Layla Miller (House of M/Decimation character) as they investigate and solve different mysteries while they deal with the effects of decimation.

New Excalibur is really just a team in England, I never really found any further purpose than that. But I do’t like NEX so my opinion is biased.

Which of these books has more classic, traditional, and iconic X-Men as members?

I guess that would be X-factor? I don’t think any one of these teams have “classic and traditional” X-men as members. Several classic X-men usually appear in New X-men as secondary characters but that’s about it.

Are any of them more contained single-issue storylines or more ongoing plot multiple issue storylines?
Both X-factor and New X-men (to a lesser extent) have had strong single issue storylines, but they are more of an ongoing plot multiple issue storylines. New Excalibur recently had a strong issue dealing with one of the characters having a stroke, but at least also used to be multiple issue storylines.

Do any of them deal more with classic mythology and villains or with new characters, situations and villains.
X-factor usually deals with new villains, New X-men so far has dealt with classic villains (with the exception of Kimura). I’m not sure about NEX , I think the shadow X-men were new but the wolf things were old?

Are any of these three comic books more detached from the bigger Marvel/X-Men Universes and concentrate more on the main characters or do they touch on the happenings of the Marvel/X-Men Universe and how the main characters relate to other heroes outside their books?
X-factor and New Excalibur are detached while New X-men (since they live at the school) have seen cameos by Ms.Marvel, Iron Man, Nightcrawler, Shadowcat, Colossus, etc.

Are any of them more about the main characters or more about the main characters circle of friends and enemies?
I think X-factor and NEX are both about the main characters, while due to the large fanbase of secondary characters in New X-men it is more about the main characters and circle of friends

Are any of them more humorous or action oriented on the one hand or dramatic and emotional oriented on the other?
I find both New X-men and X-factor to be humorous ,action oriented, dramatic and emotional oriented so I don’t think I can help you on that one.

What other titles in the Marvel Universe would you suggest for me to get that would comply with my tastes and interests?
I’d suggest to anyone and everyone Daredevil and Iron fist. They are both fun and interesting books. Oh and Runaways is a must, you just get so invested in the characters

[CmX]

X-Factor is the best of the bunch when it comes to monthly quality.

But it depends on your style.. X-Factor is more darker and mysterious, New X-Men is composed of all new characters that are just a few years old and it's action paced usually dealing with old school villains, lots of death in this book as well.

Excalibur this is a tough one.. if you're a Claremont fan then this your book.

But again I recommend X-Factor. Pick up whatever trades are out first though.

[Beast]

You also should check out X-Men: First Class, if you're a fan of the Original 5. ;)

Especially if you want a book that's more humorous and less angsty. :D

[jarrod]

Unless you like Sage or Captain Britian, as they are the only characters written in character.
Two best characters in the book besides Wisdom... who's not handled entirely badly himself.

I could stand to lose Juggs, Dazz and Nocturne though... hopefully they all get traded to the Exiles or Mojo or something.


I guess that would be X-factor? I don’t think any one of these teams have “classic and traditional” X-men as members. Several classic X-men usually appear in New X-men as secondary characters but that’s about it.
X-Factor doesn't have any former X-Men technically. Really, the only team of thse three who does is Excalibur (Sage, Dazzler, Juggernaut).

[Mariah]

Two best characters in the book besides Wisdom... who's not handled entirely badly himself.

I could stand to lose Juggs, Dazz and Nocturne though... hopefully they all get traded to the Exiles or Mojo or something.
I'd rather see Dazz on New Avengers or Carey's X-Men. Heck, even Heroes for Hire would be better for her. And Wisdom=suck.

[jarrod]

I'd rather see Dazz on New Avengers or Carey's X-Men. Heck, even Heroes for Hire would be better for her. And Wisdom=suck.
No need to stink up two great titles with that saggy hasbeen.... especially Caery's X-Men, who's attention should be lavished on far more deserving ladies (like Betsy, Lorna, Rachel or Pagie). I guess HOH couldn't get much worse though, give them Dazz.

I'd like to see Cornell take over NEX permanently. Drop the tired angst threesome and bring in Betsy, Meggan and some others.

[Mariah]

No need to stink up two great titles with that saggy hasbeen.... especially Caery's X-Men, who's attention should be lavished on far more deserving ladies (like Betsy, Lorna, Rachel or Pagie). I guess HOH couldn't get much worse though, give them Dazz.

I'd like to see Cornell take over NEX permanently. Drop the tired angst threesome and bring in Betsy, Meggan and some others.
Sure it could. Just bring in uber Psylocke, whiny Rachel, and super lame Sage and Heroes for Hire just reeks of cancellation!

[Beast]

I'd rather see Dazz on New Avengers or Carey's X-Men. Heck, even Heroes for Hire would be better for her. And Wisdom=suck.
You really want her back to being an established drug addict under Bendis?

[Mariah]

You really want her back to being an established drug addict under Bendis?
I'd rather see her as a strung out junkie than a biker lesbian, yeah.

[jarrod]

Sure it could. Just bring in uber Psylocke, whiny Rachel, and super lame Sage and Heroes for Hire just reeks of cancellation!
Cancellation usually triggers from a drop in sales, not having them skyrocket. See Dazzler's original series for a good example.

[Mariah]

Cancellation usually triggers from a drop in sales, not having them skyrocket. See Dazzler's original series for a good example.
Yeah, because Psylocke added to Exiles skyrocketed sales.;)

[Hi-Fi]

Cancellation usually triggers from a drop in sales, not having them skyrocket. See Dazzler's original series for a good example.
See New Excalibur at this year's end for another good one.

[Pach!]

I really don't know how the quick little jabs at each other are helping the dude that asked the question decide which book to buy.

[Beast]

Cancellation usually triggers from a drop in sales, not having them skyrocket. See Dazzler's original series for a good example.
Very true. Not mant books get a cover proclaiming...

"Because you demanded it -- the LAST issue of Dazzler"

[shaunyc56]

I'd rather see her as a strung out junkie than a biker lesbian, yeah.


Gotta disagree w/ you ma, what comics need more right now are chick on chick sponge baths.

[jarrod]

Yeah, because Psylocke added to Exiles skyrocketed sales.;)
Can't do too much for an already sinking ship.


See New Excalibur at this year's end for another good one.
Good, then we can finally get Sage back in the X-Men proper. Or at least hanging out with Bishop again.

[Hi-Fi]

I really don't know how the quick little jabs at each other are helping the dude that asked the question decide which book to buy.

LOL, you're right. It's just that those guys make it so easy, it's hard to control myself.

Anyway, the original poster prefers the old school stuff. I think New X-Men is the way to go. But...X-Factor is also recommended. It also has all the stuff he's looking in a comic.

[Beast]

See New Excalibur at this year's end for another good one.
Clearly you missed the interview where there's a crossover between NEX and Exiles where there will be changes in both books afterwards?

[Beast]

Gotta disagree w/ you ma, what comics need more right now are chick on chick sponge baths.
If you think that's sexy, you're sick. Strokes and helping someone care for themself is not sexy.

[Mariah]

I really don't know how the quick little jabs at each other are helping the dude that asked the question decide which book to buy.
Agreed. I feel bad for the person who started the thread. The !@#$%monites have descended and made it a cluster##%%

[jarrod]

A pink cluster##%% at that!

[shaunyc56]

Can't do too much for an already sinking ship.



Good, then we can finally get Sage back in the X-Men proper. Or at least hanging out with Bishop again.



I thought I was the only one who liked their "Detective Adventures" . Best use for Sage in my opinion, I liked Bishop in Xtreme Xmen though, I think him actually using his powers and fighting ability more would endear him to fans. Keep the guns down for a while.

[Novaya Havoc]

Very true. Not mant books get a cover proclaiming...

"Because you demanded it -- the LAST issue of Dazzler"
Eh, I'd rather not be banned.

[tetragene]

I've started getting X-Factor and have enjoyed it. I don't read New X-Men, however.

I'd recommend X-Factor, regardless of whether you've ever cared for many of the characters (start reading and you're opinion is likely to change). I'd avoid NEX unless you're a big Claremont fan or a big Captain Britain or Sage fan.

Eh, I'd rather not be banned.

lol, ah well--I bet the series still sold better than NEX--which let's face it, was created for Claremont to still be writing in the x-verse (without interfering with any "core" books) and for fan-wanks of the "classic" Excalibur proper ;)

[jarrod]

I thought I was the only one who liked their "Detective Adventures" . Best use for Sage in my opinion, I liked Bishop in Xtreme Xmen though, I think him actually using his powers and fighting ability more would endear him to fans. Keep the guns down for a while.
I'd like to see CC shift NEX into a more international team, sanctioned by the US/UK/Isrealei governments, taking over where the XSE left off. Bring in characters like Bishop, Sabra, Psylocke and Micromax, drop the annoying angst threesome... then you'd have a great book there. I could see lots of friction between Bishop and Wisdom over leadership especially.



lol, ah well--I bet the series still sold better than NEX--which let's face it, was created for Claremont to still be writing in the x-verse (without interfering with any "core" books) and for fan-wanks of the "classic" Excalibur proper ;)
True... shame NEX hasn't played out as well as "classic" Excalibur, which was itself an extremely highly rated and huge seller. Oh, and it lasted for about 3 times as many issues as Dazzler. :D

I bet NEX makes it past issue 42 as well though. ;)

[Mikey Brown]

New X-Men is really good and only gonna get better. It has a pretty consistant art team so that would be my first choice. X-Factor is also really good, but has the problem of having a fill-in every couple of issues. New Excaliber well....its very confusing for a new reader and its audience is based pretty much on Claremont followers. I'd say try an issue and see but chances are, you are not gonna like it.

[lament]

X-Factor, a thousand times over, X-Factor.

It's a fantastic book with a solid and interesting cast. The book features:

Madrox
Siryn
Wolfsbane
Rictor
Layla Miller
Strong Guy
M

No, they're not exactly iconic characters, but I think that's okay. The writing (by PAD) is strong and the art is usually good.

I'd definitely pick up some of the earlier issues to get a feel for what's already happened in the book.

[jarrod]

I've gotta echo the nominations for New X-Men. Great, great book that's using a surprising amount of older X-canon stuff (Nimrod, Stryker, Forge, Selene, Belasco, Amanda, Illyana, etc). Really enjoyable for a longtime X-fan, it's fast becoming my second favorite team book after Carey's X-Men. Also quite a bit more relevant to the core X-Men than either X-Factor or NEX.

[Faded]

Given your taste in art, I think you may like X-Factor or even New Excalibur. New X-Men has highly stylistic/cartoony art.

Given your taste in characters...well all these characters are pretty B-List. New Excalibur has Dazzler and the Juggernaut, X-Factor has Madrox/Multiple Man, Strong Guy, some New Mutants, and Generation X-er, while New X-Men is full of new characters.

Most relevant? X-Factor or New X-Men. The former is about the mutant population, the latter takes place in the mansion and both will be part of the upcoming crossover.

My personal choice: the only one I really like is X-Factor. Its witty, enigmatic fun about Jamie Madrox's Investigation firm following the events of 90% of the mutant population losing thier powers. Great character moments and great art.

[The Sword Is Drawn]

New Excalibur is the book that never properly launched.

Im not going to pretend that it was a good book in 2006. You may as well dump every issue between #8 nd #16. They had so little to do with the book it's crazy. But read around that bracket and you'll find a coherent ongoing story.

New Excalibur's premise was simple. After M-Day Britain was left with precious little in the way of heroes. Most of the mutants were gone, there's certainly no Excalibur anymore, and all the 90s heroes have been missing since the 90s...

Britain's suddenly become an easy target, and Pete Wisdom has discovered that certain parties are looking to take advantage of that. One party in particular that he knows far too well. Because he used to work for Black Air.

That was the chief concept, but the book was also intended to deal with the fall out from the damage done to the multiverse during House of M's Uncanny issues. It made sense. captain Britain was the Monarch of Otherworld after all.

The problem is simple. Claremont began it, lost his penciller for two issues after the first arc, and had to go on leave as of #6 because of cardiac problems which kept him out ofcomics for over six months. So just as it began New Excalibur stumbled. It has not had the chance to really continue until now due to a particularly unfaithful fill in period, and editors deciding to do that rather than putthe book on hiatus until Claremont's return.

But if you were to give the next issue a try it's the first part of a seven part arc dealing with something which seems to have escaped when the multiverse ruotured in House of M.

[The Sword Is Drawn]

Lousy server. Double Post. Sorry.

[Pach!]

Oh I just remembered and I don't know if anyone mentioned it, but if you are already getting X-men and Uncanny, you should try to get both New X-men and X-factor as they will be involved in the big crossover.
Here is a tentative schedule for the Intro to the crossover which will be 8 pages at the end of each of the following issues:

1. Endangered Species One-Shot June '07
2. X-Men #200 June '07
3. New X-Men #39 July '07
4. Uncanny X-Men #487 July '07
5. X-Factor #20 July '07
6. X-Men #201 July '07
7. New X-Men #40 Aug '07
8. Uncanny X-Men #488 Aug '07
9. X-Factor #21 Aug '07
10. X-Men #202 Aug '07
11. New X-Men #41 Sep '07
12. Uncanny X-Men #489 Sep '07
13. X-Factor #22 Sep '07
14. X-Men #203 Sep '07
15. New X-Men #42 Oct '07
16. Uncanny X-Men #490 Oct '07
17. X-Factor #23 Oct '07
18. X-Men #204 Oct '07

[DDM]

I buy & read New Excalibur & X-Factor specifically because the writers--Chris Claremont & Peter David's stories--interest me. New X-Men has not grabbed my attention because it comes off as a diluted version of The New Mutants (1982) or even Generation X (1994).

Read what interests you.

[The Sword Is Drawn]

Read what interests you.

And that is a view I totally agree upon.

[Diablito]

Get into X-Factor. It's fun and makes great use of b and c list characters. Second only to Mike Carey's X-Men!

[xakko]

X-Factor.

A thousand times X-factor. The best monthly X-book by quite a bit.

If you were a classic X-fan, I'd say New Excalibur.

[Flameworthy]

I'd really stay away from New Excalibur if I were you. It'll probably end up getting canceled soon anyways.

I could never get into X-Factor. It's a cool book, but just not my thing.

New X-Men on the other hand is the shizz!!! It's the only book I enjoy reading at the moment. Great cast of characters and awesome stories. Definitely a must read.

[jarrod]

What's with the subversive "bound for cancellation" attacks on NEX? Now that it's finally had a creative turnaround for the better with Claremont & Eaton, is this sort of wholly unsupported FUD what biased detractors need resort to? If C&D or Exiles can last years hovering at generally lower sales, what makes NEX so ripe for cancellation? Wishfull thinking?

[Pach!]

I don't think the sales are going to increase, but you're right C&D do have lower sales, I assume they would cancel that first but who knows how marvel works.

[jarrod]

They'll increase, no doubt about it. Consider NEX debuting higher than X-Factor, or indeed any recent Xbook without the words "X-Men" or "Wolverine" on the cover, well there's certainly an audience for this sort of book. The audience was just scared away by hard to follow last minute rewrites and low quality fill ins... if Claremont and Eaton provide a decent foundation from here on out, and it's off to an encouraging start frankly, the book will do just fine.

[streator]

i would recommend x-factor.

i've tried out all three books and x-factor is the only title that i've stuck with.

i read all of new mutants (2nd series) and the first few issues of academy x but new x-men just wasn't doing it for me. i couldn't really seem to care about the characters, which is odd as i enjoyed generation x and the previous new mutants.

i read the first 9 issues of new excalibur and while i wanted to give cc another shot the book lost me pretty fast.

[Omega Alpha]

X-factor is way above everything in the X-universe, except Mike Carey's X-men.

[Matthew K.]

@New Excalibur: I sampled you & found you wanting...like a bad order of over priced french fries...you just weren't worth eating anymore

@New X-Men: You are the Cherry Coke that washes down my burger...delicious, but not the main course

@X-Factor: You are the Winnie Copper to my Kevin Arnold...reminding me why i fall in love with you each time we meet

[Mariah]

Probably because Genoshacalibur lasted 14 issues? I give this one til the end of the crossover. Maybe.

[sschroeder]

Hello all. I'm a newbie and I would like to hear your suggestions on something.

I am getting back into comics after a long absence and I can only afford a few titles. I like mainly mainstream characters and central/current Marvel Universe storylines and I am not interested in minor characters or peripheral storylines.

Art is also important. I like good paper, glossy pages, fewer and larger panels, and high detail. I dislike a lot of panels on the page and impressionistic, stylistic or cartoonish art if you know what I mean.

Yes, I know. :o I am a tool for The Man but that's what I like. I can't help it.

Taking all that into consideration, I have eliminated a lot of titles and I am only picking up Amazing Spider-Man, Captain America, Iron Man, Incredible Hulk, New and Mighty Avengers, Wolverine, Fantastic Four, X-Men and Uncanny X-Men at the moment; but I can't decide between which of the other X-Men comics I should get.

I can only afford one of them. Should I get New X-Men, X-Factor, or New Excalibur?

If you read the monthly solicts when they show up on the main page, and sample an issue or two of what you are considering, you will probably be able to figure it out better than getting recommendations.

That said, I don't think any of the three meet enough of your criteria for purchase at the moment. I'm actually a little surprised you are even buying Uncanny at this point, because those events in space are not impacting Earth. They will probably impact the characters involved somehow down the line, but you indicate that you are more concerned about major story lines. And Uncanny might as well be alone in a bubble right now (and probably through the end of the Shiar Empire arc). But it does have some of the character and art specifics you mention, so that's probably why you get it. Like Uncanny, Annihilation is kind of a big deal for the worlds and characters out in space involved, but Earth seems totally unaware of it, so you'll have to decide whether to try it.

New X-Men has the latest crop of student mutants. You'll get to see the newest mutant hero characters with some support from veteran X-Men here fighting various kinds of villains, new and old.

New Excalibur has been a mixed bag, but might start to meet your requirements with the next issue. It does have some fairly neat and powerful characters from X-history. But it is set over in England, so it will probably not impact the other settings you read all that much.

The marketing of X-Factor could be better. What is this book about? Other than Multiple Man, the House of M kid and peripheral Quicksilver drop ins (Son of M and Silent War are the places to check out Quicksilver), X-Factor doesn't really have any characters I personally care that much about. I'd give Peter David a chance if I cared about the subject matter. Others will have to advise you on this title.

Most of the X-books have been using fill-in artists at least once in a while, so it hard to recommend based on art. If you can take a look at issues on the rack before purchasing, that is probably your best bet.

You didn't ask about Exiles, and I assume you already eliminated it because it is essentially defined by characters from and story lines in alternate universes.

I don't read Astonishing, so others will have to let you know whether it meets your criteria. My current top X-pick is X-Men, which you already read.

So you might want to go with New X-Men of your three. Not that the upcoming Magik arc looks relevant to new comics readers though. Out of all you are not reading, Ms. Marvel looks more tied into what is happening with the post-SHRA Initiative era though than anything in the X-verse right now.

Books like newuniversal (in its own universe) and Daredevil (mostly about Matt Murdock) don't meet your criteria, but they are worth a look if you ever want to branch out. In my experience, many new comics readers like Punisher and Moon Knight, so you might want to give MK and Punisher War Journal a look sometime even though I don't read them. I think part of the fun is finding a few nooks and crannies that you like outside of big events. Good luck.

[Deus ex Chris]

This is an easy choice. It has to be X-Factor. It's consistently smart, funny, and entertaining. New X-Men has been entertaining as well, but it isn't even near X-Factor's league. New Excalibur is just bad. The plots are weak. The dialogue is awkward and unnatural, and the characterization is forced. I'd stay away from it.

[The Sword Is Drawn]

What's with the subversive "bound for cancellation" attacks on NEX? Now that it's finally had a creative turnaround for the better with Claremont & Eaton, is this sort of wholly unsupported FUD what biased detractors need resort to? If C&D or Exiles can last years hovering at generally lower sales, what makes NEX so ripe for cancellation? Wishfull thinking?

Don't sweat about it. People have been posting that since the series started. Considering it already has one spin off limited series and another planned for later in the year I doubt there's a threat of cancellation in the slightest.

People will keep on posting things like "Well the last Excalibur only lasted 14 issues" but let's not forget that was for two reasons. 1) House of M made it redundant and 2) It was only 'Excalibur' in name, with no links to Britain or any element of the original series.

Seriously, fans of actual Excalibur were not buying it on principle.

There has been a gap in Marvel's market for a UK based book since the original Excalibur was cancelled. This book is guarenteed at least for the rest of 2007, it's sales will pick up, and it's far from Marvel's lowest seller. I just wish Marvel would ever actually publicise the title.

[Stephane Garrelie]

Since Claremont's return (#16) New Excalibur have been really good. Before that i was far from enthousiast about this title.
Now with Scott Eaton and after him Jeremy Haun on the art and Claremont doing good stories again, I'm really exited about this book.:)

[Karl H]

X-Factor is the proverbial dogs balls and thus excellent... I love it

[The Sword Is Drawn]

Since Claremont's return (#16) New Excalibur have been really good. Before that i was far from enthousiast about this title.
Now with Scott Eaton and after him Jeremy Haun on the art and Claremont doing good stories again, I'm really exited about this book.:)

Mew too. And I have to say that Haun in particular has me interested right now. If he were to replace Eaton in the end I'd still be happy. Both artists are of particularly good quality - and infinitely better fits to the book thab Michael Ryan.

[jarrod]

Probably because Genoshacalibur lasted 14 issues? I give this one til the end of the crossover. Maybe.
Even you can't be this shortsighted. Not really.

[Babylon23]

What's with the subversive "bound for cancellation" attacks on NEX? Now that it's finally had a creative turnaround for the better with Claremont & Eaton, is this sort of wholly unsupported FUD what biased detractors need resort to? If C&D or Exiles can last years hovering at generally lower sales, what makes NEX so ripe for cancellation? Wishfull thinking?

If you remember, the anti-NEX crowd were saying the book wouldn't last 12 issues, then 18...now it's 24...

Anyway, each of the 3 books has it's merits. My favourite of the 3 would probably be X-Factor.

Given that you're already collecting X-Men and Uncanny, I'd probably recommend either New X-Men or X-Factor, as both are more tightly connected to the main books. With the big crossover coming, it might be a good opportunity to sample both books in that context and see if they're to your liking. If not, try NEX.

[AuroraNstar]

Go with X-Factor. It's the best. I don't see the point for New Excalibur other than they needed a spot for some extra x-characters.

[Pach!]

Go with X-Factor. It's the best. I don't see the point for New Excalibur other than they needed a spot for some extra x-characters.

Yeah I never understood it's purpose either, but I think someone said there is a spot for Mutants from England among the fans, plus there are people that enjoy Claremont and at least there, they could get their monthly dose.

[DDM]

I'd really stay away from New Excalibur if I were you. It'll probably end up getting canceled soon anyways.


Wishful thinking? Just because you don't "get" New Excalibur does not make it a bad book.

I could never get into X-Factor. It's a cool book, but just not my thing.

Yet here you're not wishing for X-Factor to be cancelled. Why? I mean you don't "get" X-Factor like you don't "get" New Excalibur.

New X-Men on the other hand is the shizz!!! It's the only book I enjoy reading at the moment. Great cast of characters and awesome stories. Definitely a must read.

If you say so. The stories I have read from New X-Men seem to be pale imitations of Chris Claremont's original The New Mutants. Of course, I read The New Mutants monthly. I guess you can't miss what you never read in the first place.

[Pach!]

If you say so. The stories I have read from New X-Men seem to be pale imitations of Chris Claremont's original The New Mutants. Of course, I read The New Mutants monthly. I guess you can't miss what you never read in the first place.

Could you give examples of that?I haven't read New Mutants and would like to see the comparisons. (btw I'm not saying that they are not pale imitations I would just like to be more informed before I give an opinion)

[The Sword Is Drawn]

Go with X-Factor. It's the best. I don't see the point for New Excalibur other than they needed a spot for some extra x-characters.

New Excalibur is not a mutant specific title. It features several mutants in its cast but its brief now, as it always was with its predecessor, was the formation of a Avengers style super team for Great Britain.

You've got to remember that there were a lot of British based stories throughout the late 70s, 80s and into 90s. The UK corner of Marvel's Universe even had its own imprint during the 90s, publishing upwards of 10 titles a month. It even had it's own imprint within an imprint - in the form of Marvel Frontier Comics.

There's a wealth of characters and concepts in that setting from Shang-chi's days working with MI5, The Invaders, Union Jack, Spitfire, and Baron Blood through to Killraven, Captain Britain into Excalibur, Death's Head, Warheads, Hell's Angel, Motormouth and Killpower etc. before the imprint was cancelled my Marvel in 1993 due to the crash of the comics industry at that time.

There's a LOT to work with. Paul Cornel has been playing with quite a bit of it in his Pete Wisdom series, Christos Gage did so in his Union Jack mini series, and even Ed Brubaker's been doing British based stories in Captain America.

Britain seems to be a genuine area of interest to Marvel right now, and New Excalibur remains a big part of that. Even if after 2007 came to an end I get a strong vibe that Marvel would be unlikely to axe the book itself, but change the creative team. And I wouldn't be surprised, in that scenario, if Paul Cornell wasn't seriously considered to take over.

I don't see this series in danger at all. It just doesn't reall y fit into the X-Stable. It never did. It doesn't want to tell mutant stories. Principly it's always been more of a MU title. Marvel even list it in the Marvel Heroes section of their website.

[tetragene]

There may be a lot of "British-based" things to work into the title, Sword--but I don't see that happening. I don't think, by any means, that the title was created to be a proper outlet for British-set stories and whatnot. It seems like it was intended to be primarily about Otherworld and other Excalibur v. 1 off-shoots and to give Claremont a X-realted book that is more self-contained wouldn't interfere with the core books (which is exactly what NEX and Exiles are). When they were originally pimping the title out they were labeling it the "Juggernaut and Dazzler book"--not much focus was on the British aspects of it, not much focus has been on the British aspects, and I don't think much focus will be devoted to the British aspects.

[Flameworthy]

Wishful thinking? Just because you don't "get" New Excalibur does not make it a bad book.

Who ever said I don't "get" NEX. This book wouldn't be nearly as bad if was actually going somewhere, but I don't really see it. Not to mention half the cast is acting completely OOC.


Yet here you're not wishing for X-Factor to be cancelled. Why? I mean you don't "get" X-Factor like you don't "get" New Excalibur.

I said it was a cool book, and at least I respect that the characters are written well and you know in character.


If you say so. The stories I have read from New X-Men seem to be pale imitations of Chris Claremont's original The New Mutants. Of course, I read The New Mutants monthly. I guess you can't miss what you never read in the first place.

How the hell would know what I've read and what I haven't? Try not making assumptions to validate your point ok. For you information I have read New Mutants, and I liked that book to. I even praised it in another thread not too long ago.

[Faded]

Everyone's fighting! :(

The world would just be better off if you bought X-Factor, Neverwinter, and be done with this thread! ;)
[/smooth persuasions]

[Mariah]

Everyone's fighting! :(

The world would just be better off if you bought X-Factor, Neverwinter, and be done with this thread! ;)
[/smooth persuasions]
Awww, poor Faded! Stop the fighting, please! It'll make things so much more pleasant!

[Brett P]

I'd reccomend New X-Men as my fave, but seeing as you said you don't like stylised or cartoony art, and Skottie Young is just coming on the book, I doubt you'll like it. But it's full of great characters.

So then It'd hafta be X Factor. It's got the art, the stroylines, the character interaction, and obviously more familar characters.

Of course with the X-over starting in November and the Endangered species back up stories starting in July, you'd probably get the most out of getting both X Factor and New X-Men alongside X-Men and Uncanny.

[jarrod]

I said it was a cool book, and at least I respect that the characters are written well and you know in character.
Written well? Unquestionably.

Written in character? Well, that one's somewhat open for debate when it comes to some of the cast...

[The Sword Is Drawn]

There may be a lot of "British-based" things to work into the title, Sword--but I don't see that happening. I don't think, by any means, that the title was created to be a proper outlet for British-set stories and whatnot. It seems like it was intended to be primarily about Otherworld and other Excalibur v. 1 off-shoots and to give Claremont a X-realted book that is more self-contained wouldn't interfere with the core books (which is exactly what NEX and Exiles are). When they were originally pimping the title out they were labeling it the "Juggernaut and Dazzler book"--not much focus was on the British aspects of it, not much focus has been on the British aspects, and I don't think much focus will be devoted to the British aspects.

It might be worth pointing out that Otherworld is neither a Claremont or Excalibur concept. They weren't even Alan Moore concepts, he inherited them from his predeccesor - whose name now entirely slips my mind...

There was a lot of backlash with the Genoshan Excalibur, that the book had sod all to do with its title. Even Claremont himself has gone on record as saying that it probably would have been received a lot better if it hadn't used the name. There were a lot of angry fans to whom Excalibur will only ever mean a British super team featuring Cap, Kitty, Kurt, Rachel and Meggan. I don't recall any real press hype over Dazzler and Juggernaut until the book's lineup was announced. Plenty 'A new British based Excalibur' press releases, though, and messageboards playing 'Who the heck from the original line-up can they have?' That seemed the larger focus, to me. That and Chris Claremont hyping his Sword Corps concept and later retracted discussions over how the Hellfire Club were the main villains of the book's first year.

Who ever said I don't "get" NEX. This book wouldn't be nearly as bad if was actually going somewhere, but I don't really see it. Not to mention half the cast is acting completely OOC.

It was never going to be going anywhere until the book's writer returned. Especially with such a mis-match as the primary fill in writer. I also don't really see any OOC cast work. Claremont has a different take on Dazzler, true, and to a degree Nocturne also. But that's it. He had stories he wanted to tell with both characters - stories he was unable to tell, because as of #6 he was forced off the book. In that time he was only really able to set up the premise and set up the fiorst major ongoing story concept. He is now returning to what he intended, and the seven part continuation of issue #1-5 begins in the next issue.

But I'm not going to get too narky with you. I know you're primarily annoyed because you had to wait so long for a favourite character to even get back on a regular series. And when she does it's not in a guise which you remember or wanted to see.

Plus you're using Tangerine as your Avatar. And an obscure Excalibur guest character who should really get a return someday scores you big points in my estimation...:D

[DDM]

It might be worth pointing out that Otherworld is neither a Claremont or Excalibur concept. They weren't even Alan Moore concepts, he inherited them from his predeccesor - whose name now entirely slips my mind...

David Thorpe (http://www.davidthorpe.info/)

He is responsible for Opal Luna Saturnyne, Otherworld (name) & the Captain Britain Corps, Roma (name), the Crazy Gang, & Captain Britain's new costume (w/ Alan Davis).

I wish Marvel would reprint David Thorpe & Alan Davis The Mighty World of Marvel #377-387 in a TPB...

David Thorpe does not get enough credit for the Captain Britain canon he himself established. He's eclipsed by Alan Moore.

[The Sword Is Drawn]

David Thorpe (http://www.davidthorpe.info/)

He is responsible for Opal Luna Saturnyne, Otherworld (name) & the Captain Britain Corps, Roma (name), the Crazy Gang, & Captain Britain's new costume (w/ Alan Davis).

I wish Marvel would reprint David Thorpe & Alan Davis The Mighty World of Marvel #377-387 in a TPB...

David Thorpe does not get enough credit for the Captain Britain canon he himself established. He's eclipsed by Alan Moore.

Thanks DDM. I had it as David 'Thomas' in my head, and knew it was the wrong name.

And no he doesn't. Especially when you consider that many of those concepts he was responsible for are now the accepted rules of Marvel's Multiverse. But Alan Moore kind of got all the credit for it... :D

I too hope that they will someday reprint his run. I have a couple of issues from it which I picked up from a comics fair about ten years back, but it really needs to be done reprinted as a whole volume.

Here in the UK, Panini Comics - who bought up Marvel UK's reprint rights after Marvel closed the British imprint down - have recently started reprinting Captain Britain issues chronologically in tpb format. Captain Britain: Birth of a Legend vol.1 was put out just before Christmas, and covers from the first issue up to the cliffhanger just before the finale of the Captain Britain & Captain America vs The Red Skull storyline. Vol 2 is scheduled for late on in 2007.

There UK printed, but you should be able to acquire them through Amazon. Abd obviously the more people buy them the more likely Panini are to keep on putting them out. A couple of years ago they reprinted the Jamie Delano/Alan Davis run of Captain Britain in the pages of the modern 'Mighty World of Marvel' monthly anthology title. At that point they printed that they had had a lot of requests to reprinth the Alan Moore run - but did not have the rights do so. Their reprint rights, as I understand it, run up to the enbd of David Thorpe's tenure.

I live in hope.:D

[CmX]

Wishful thinking? Just because you don't "get" New Excalibur does not make it a bad book.

It's hard to "get" a book if it has no point and apparently no direction. An awkwardly placed batch of characters with shoddy characterization and horrible cheesy dialogue.

I think the more appropriate term would be hard to "get into/enjoy" rather than "get/enjoy".

[The Sword Is Drawn]

It's hard to "get" a book if it has no point and apparently no direction. An awkwardly placed batch of characters with shoddy characterization and horrible cheesy dialogue.

It has plenty point and direction. Just ignore issues #9-15. They didn't.

The characters have a lot more in common than anybody is actually willing to give them credit for. Frank Tieri may have fought hard to show division in the team, instead of expanding on what had been built up in issues #1-8, but frankly so little of what he wrote made any practical sense in the context of this series that it's not worth bothering with.

Granted I do feel that the dialogue in certain parts of those first few issues was a bit shaky. Claremont was not working at the top of his game. But as was shown shortly afterwards I'm not sure he was that well in himself at that stage. His first two issues back have shown a marked improvement (Although I think everybody could have done with out that one page of Sage Praise last issue) and as the next 7 issues will be dealing with a large part of the plots he was in the middle of when he had to take time off the actual direction should be pretty plain to even to most sceptical fan.

[CmX]

I see what you mean, yeah the next arc will be focused on Albion finally re-appearing and striking with his mini-army.

His first eight issues he introduced so many sub-plots and way too many villains with hardly or almost no closure.

Why were the dark XMen attacking Courtney Ross' associate? Why was Dark Xavier after TJ originally but when he went after Psylocke there was no mention of his interest in TJ ?

Xavier also attacked Sage before that but it was hinted that it was Bogan ? So is it Bogan or Shadow King? Seems he's changing his plots mid-script and/or the editors are yet again to blame.

It just upsets me that PAD had wanted Nightcrawler or TJ for his X-Factor book and Carey is so desperately trying to get his paws on Psylocke but CC isn't budging.

I think these characters could be doing bigger and better things. The whole stroke didn't sit to well with me TJ is a great character with a lot of potential and we're not seeing it in NEX.

I don't think CC will be letting go of either anytime soon since he's already had Storm, Rogue and Rachel taken away from him.

Basically he's introduced acouple of interesting plots, but they've fallen flat or just didn't make sense or were just never given a conclusion and forgotten.

[steve2275]

i like all 3

[froma]

I didn't really enjoy New Excalibur until Tieri stepped in. (I was putting up with the book for Juggernaut and Nocturne despite how chaotic it was). With that said, the newer Claremont issues that I have read were great. I don't quite know what the difference is, and the book is still far from perfect, but it's exactly what I expected -- hoped for, really -- out of the title.

Out of the three titles you're debating between, I'd pick X-Factor. It's genuinely unique. I read all three, but I would drop the other two in a heartbeat if I were forced to choose. PAD's doin' a great job.

[The Sword Is Drawn]

Why were the dark XMen attacking Courtney Ross' associate?

The Shadow X-Men were almost certainly hunting that guy down as 'Work for Hire'. When The Shadow King finally had his face off with Psylocke in issue #8 he effectively says 'If only you guys knew what their real plans were' aluding to having been working for somebody else, and then returns to staging his private vendetta against Betsy.

But their hunting down that Fraser's Bank employee is far from an isolated occurance.

In Issue #5, when the warwolves flee in defeat, they say that they will havve to 'honour their contract' with their employer another day. They too were being employed by some third party to cause Excalibur some trouble. Why? One might assume for Excalibur having gotten involved in the previous issue. It would kind of be poetic that this 'new' Excalibur were to be offed by b list enemies of the originals, who they had had imprisoned.

#4 opens with showing us the Far East head of Fraser's Bank having been murdered. It also shows a former reknowned internet hacker found dead in India. This man found dead the very same day that somebody clears all themoney out of Courtney Ross' bank account, cancels her cards and her mobile phone account. Is it safe to assume that who ever employed the Shadow X-Men to attack that Fraser's bank employee also hired this hacker to clear out Courtney's account, before bumping him off to cover their tracks?

You see there was a definite something going on in these issues - an under current. And when Black Air turned up in #6 to claim the Shadow X-Men, is it wrong to assume they might actually have come to re-claim them?

The problem is that this is where Claremont's plotting finishes. We have no further explanation, simply because he wasn't there to finish the job. Now we appear to be getting back to the plot, as we see that somebody has forced Courtney into signing away her role within Fraser's Bank to somebody else. Who are these men? What was really going on? Hopefully NOW we'll get those answers.

Why was Dark Xavier after TJ originally but when he went after Psylocke there was no mention of his interest in TJ ?

I think this all comes down one detail Claremont mistakenly put into TJ's powers, wjichhad not been there before. As we have found out more recently Chris was under the impression that when TJ possesses somebody she also gets access to their memories. This is not how her powers worked in eXiles, but I don't think he realised this. If Nocturne had possessed one of the Shadow X-Men - other than Xavier who was hosting the Shadow King - she would have found out that it WAS the Shadow King behind the group. The SKL himself would not have wanted that. He waited a good long while to go one on one up against Psylocke, in issue #8. he engineered it to be a confrontation on his terms. A reveal during their initial meeting would not have been to his pleasing.

That's how I read it anyway.

Xavier also attacked Sage before that but it was hinted that it was Bogan ?

I didn't see that as being hinted at all. She had a transparent version of the Shodow X-Men mask placed over her head during that encounter. I only saw him trying to make her a hound in the same manner as his other thralls.

So is it Bogan or Shadow King? Seems he's changing his plots mid-script and/or the editors are yet again to blame.

It's the Shadow King. Pure and simple. Claremont himself even played down rumours of Bogan being the Shadow King in X-Treme. I'm pretty sure he wants the two be seperate entities. point of note for if that London Hellfire Club story ever comes to fruition - Bogan has probably been with the HFC since it's beginnings. And that would have been IN London.

It is possible that the Editors asked for another change, though. If we'd got to see these stories completed last year they might have made clearer sense.

It just upsets me that PAD had wanted Nightcrawler or TJ for his X-Factor book and Carey is so desperately trying to get his paws on Psylocke but CC isn't budging.

Well, Nightcrawler is Brubaker's. That's a moot point./ Claremont wanted him as well, for this title, but didn't get him. Carey asked about Psylocke, but was told she was unavailable. She was as she's the biggest name on eXiles now. I really don't see a problem. PAD's got a near perfect line-up as it is.

I think these characters could be doing bigger and better things. The whole stroke didn't sit to well with me TJ is a great character with a lot of potential and we're not seeing it in NEX.

I disagree with this point so badly it actually makes me shiver. :mad: :D I like TJ on this book, and resebt the concept of 'Bigger and better things'. Excalibur was once a hugely popular title in the X-Stable. I think it's a shame now that there's a whole generation that were never around to read it. It has such infinite potential to be a player again - but it needs the chance to actually show what it can do now. It's only NOW getting that chance.

TJ's losing the one thing she has always relied upon - her natural athletic agility - is a great angle for the character. Great, because her actual mutant power shouldn't stop her from living even if she was confined to a wheelchair for life. She could simply go out possessing other people, and live her life thrugh them. But she doesn't want to. She just wants to get back to normal. And I think watching her fight for that is a really interesting development. I just can't understand why so many others don't.

I don't think CC will be letting go of either anytime soon since he's already had Storm, Rogue and Rachel taken away from him.

Certainly not until the cfrossover at the end of the year, no. We already kniow that TJ is returning to exiles, which I think is a shame.

Basically he's introduced acouple of interesting plots, but they've fallen flat or just didn't make sense or were just never given a conclusion and forgotten.

Only due to 7 issues of Tieri going off at tangents, and not acknowledging anything from the actual continuity of the series he was supposerd to be filling in on. Had he even referenced them then people wouldn't have forgotten. But in a book where he went out of his way to avoid even mentioning that the team were in Britain, or the premise of the series, expecting individual plot reminders was probably expecting too much.

[jarrod]

It just upsets me that PAD had wanted Nightcrawler or TJ for his X-Factor book and Carey is so desperately trying to get his paws on Psylocke but CC isn't budging.

I think these characters could be doing bigger and better things. The whole stroke didn't sit to well with me TJ is a great character with a lot of potential and we're not seeing it in NEX.
I think Nightcrawler would've been somewhat miscast in X-Factor, really he has no personal ties that'd even link him to the group. Plus it'd throw the fun B-lister vibe... if you complain about "bigger and better" for these characters, being in X-Factor would certainly be something of a step backwards for the Kurt versus where he is now.

As for Noctrune, I could see that more likely... but the book's already somewhat crowded as is, and there's no way I'd want to lose Rahne, Theresa or Monet for the likes of TJ. NEX isn't such a bad desitination either, it's easily the "highest profile" place we've seen TJ consistantly.

Psylocke in X-Men would've been great... but frankly, I don't mind how it worked out as Betsy's one of the few concepts Claremont's gotten right since his return. He's single handedly resorted her rightful character over his Uncanny run and frankly, after the dark ages of Lobdell/Nicezia, I'm wary to trust about anyone but Claremont or Davis with her.

[The Sword Is Drawn]

I'd have to agree with that Jarrod. I think he's done right by Psylocke, certainly. And yes, X-Factor does not need another cast member. Kurt's A list again these days. X-Factor would have been a definite out of character step back.

[creaky]

I think Nightcrawler would've been somewhat miscast in X-Factor, really he has no personal ties that'd even link him to the group. Plus it'd throw the fun B-lister vibe... if you complain about "bigger and better" for these characters, being in X-Factor would certainly be something of a step backwards for the Kurt versus where he is now.

Not with the way he's currently being written.:(

[jarrod]

Not with the way he's currently being written.:(
Granted, though he was at least starting to shine during the latter half of Claremont's Uncanny... really though, with Jamie and Theresa already in there, what sort of role would Kurt fill? He was heading the X.S.E. previously, why would he want to suddenly leave his closest friends and home to work for Jamie's detective agency?

To fit Kurt in X-Factor, virtually the entire lineup would need to be tweaked imo. T.J. could've made a better fit, but again, the title seems pretty crowded already by similar voices.

[CmX]

I wasn't saying I wanted Kurt in X-Factor I was just mentioning that PAD wanted either for the "crawlers" and it's a shame IMO that he wasn't able to get his hands on TJ because I think he would have written her very very well and I think she would have fit perfectly on the title.

TSID - About original Excalibur I loved it I've read a few issues and I know enough about it to say that it was a very good series but I dont' think NEX has proved itself yet to be as good as the original. This title is still very young, but we'll see where CC goes with it.

I'd like Meggan back already, I really hope he's not trying to pair Brian up with Courtney.

Plus I want more European characters on the team, let's lose the Americans.

[The M.E.]

new x-factor all the way! the day that x-men and x-factor comes out is my most favoritest comic day of the month!

[The Sword Is Drawn]

I wasn't saying I wanted Kurt in X-Factor I was just mentioning that PAD wanted either for the "crawlers" and it's a shame IMO that he wasn't able to get his hands on TJ because I think he would have written her very very well and I think she would have fit perfectly on the title.

Oh, I see. Oh well. I honestly don't think she'd have been a clean fit there either, mind.

TSID - About original Excalibur I loved it I've read a few issues and I know enough about it to say that it was a very good series but I dont' think NEX has proved itself yet to be as good as the original. This title is still very young, but we'll see where CC goes with it.

Indeed. I hink it's a great shame the book was kind of derailed so soon into its being. I'm sure the next arc will get things back on track though. And I'm glad it's being given the chance to do, away from Endangered Species.

I'd like Meggan back already, I really hope he's not trying to pair Brian up with Courtney.

I have a feeling Meggan will turn up in eXiles, abd eventually be taken back to 616. Although sadly I think it'll be juast in time to find brian getting together with Courtney... :rolleyes:

Plus I want more European characters on the team, let's lose the Americans.

More Brits, more Germans, more Europeans of any nationality... and the acknowledgement that Sage is actually Welsh. ;)

[ImpulseUCF]

Indeed. I hink it's a great shame the book was kind of derailed so soon into its being. I'm sure the next arc will get things back on track though. See, here's the problem...based on the first 5 or 6 issues, I'm utterly convinced the book was never on track to begin with. There was no real cohesion or bonding of the group, no real purpose for the book outside of "heroes do stuff in Britain because Britain needs it." There was no direction, focus, character interaction, nothing! Tieri at least didn't crap on what CC was trying to do and wrote Nocturne and Juggernaut in character. He also kept Sage as the know-it-all super-princess so she was just like CC left her. ;)

[Hi-Fi]

New X-Men has Loa!

[Mariah]

New X-Men has Loa!
And Pixie!!! Who's becoming a regular!!!

[The Sword Is Drawn]

See, here's the problem...based on the first 5 or 6 issues, I'm utterly convinced the book was never on track to begin with. There was no real cohesion or bonding of the group, no real purpose for the book outside of "heroes do stuff in Britain because Britain needs it." There was no direction, focus, character interaction, nothing!

I couldn't disagree more. Having recently re-read that run - ahead of Infinity War - I was actualy quite impressed by how well it stood up.The problem for me is that things like the deaths at the start of #4 were never linked in with anything. Largely because Claremont wasn't there to do anything. But the tone, premise and feel flows well bwetween Issues #1-8. Chris Yost continued the tone seamlessly when he filled in. #1-8 feel like a book establishing itself.

And in comparison #'s 9-15 feel like a car wreck. The tone is utterly different. It's simply not the same book. It's a tangent. To Tieri setting and premise were totally absent - which for a book establishing itself is like a kiss of death.

Tieri at least didn't crap on what CC was trying to do and wrote Nocturne and Juggernaut in character.

The problem is that he didn't even mention ANYTHING which had come before. Sure he didn't screw up those plots, but by not acknowledging anything of importance from the series so far he simply made seven issue wghich were almost totally irrelevent to the book. His stories were stretched out much longer than the material warranted, and I honestly don't see how Nocturne was ANY better than in Claremont's hands, bar the return of her Hex Bolts.

The whole run had the whiff of somebody who hadn't done their homework on the title, only a little on a couple of the characters, and then after reading some pretty damning fan feedback tried to tack on the actual premise and setting of the book in the final pages of his last issue. Such a disappointment.

He also kept Sage as the know-it-all super-princess so she was just like CC left her. ;)

And that's the one thing I could have done without. ;)

And just a reminder folks... Sage is Welsh. ;)

[CmX]

And Pixie!!! Who's becoming a regular!!!

I know! I always thought Pixie was so adorable I'm glad she's on the team. I just hope she's not killed off she seems so delicate for missions the team goes on which are normally extremely violent and dangerous.