Angel question

[Eliseu Gouveia]

Okay, they´ve been airing an Angel season in cicles around here and I´m dying to know what happens next.
unfortunatelly, whenever the season ends, they reboot it, leaving me out to dry.

Here´s how it goes:
- Angel & cia join Wolfram and Hart.
- Fred dies and is replaced by Illyria.
- Wesley dies in the last episode confronting a mage who Illyria disposes off.
- The last survivors (Angel, Spike, a wounded Gunn and Illyria confront 30,000 demons - and a dragon-.

The demons rush in, Gunn asks "what are we gonna do now?"
"- dunno about you but I wanna slay that dragon."
"- Let´s go to work."

And Bam, Finish.

What happened next?.

[Chiasm]

Use your imagination. . . . . . . .

This was the end of the series and it was delibarately and infuriatingly left open ended.

The comics have continued the series showing that many survived but they are not considered canon.

Currently Joss Whedon is writing Buffy the Vampire Season VIII which is considered canon, first issue out two weeks ago - if you missed it it sucks for you. Problem is that season VIII of Buffy is equivalent to season V of Angel so even if we get a crossover it won't tell us a damn thing. Although the series has already debunked the 3rd to last Angel episode where Angel and Spike went to Italy to see Buffy - turns out that was a Buffy decoy of which there are several meant to protect the real Buffy from would be assassins.

Some love this ending of Angel. Some hate it. I don't think there is any in between on it.

[DonC]

IDW Comics just announced plans for a Season 6 Angel comic series, along the lines of Dark Horse's Season 8 Buffy book. However, Joss Whedon isn't going to be as involved in the Angel comic as he is in the Buffy one.

[Eliseu Gouveia]

You mean that´s it?
You sure?
That´s how the series ended?

.........
........
........


I LOVE IT!

Man, talk about finishing on a high note!


WTG! :)

[Web of Fear]

You mean that´s it?
You sure?
That´s how the series ended?

Chiasm speaks the truth! I really like the ending too.

[DrewTheXenocide]

Yep. That's the end.

Although, I do remember a couple Angel comics on the stands and flipping through them and whatnot, seeing that they take place after the finale. Apparently,

Gunn survives.

[Eliseu Gouveia]

I am so glad they didn´t go for a sugary ending where Fred comes back, marries Wesley, Gunn gets a new girl, Angel and Spike turn into real boys, the Senior Partners gets aired, etc, etc.

I love open ends and this one has that Butch and Sundance quality to it that just leaves you wondering.
Like Angel himself said in a previous episode, they´re not supposed to destroy the Senior Partners, after all they´re the be-all, end-all of all Evilness.
They´re there to be fought, not beat.
And that´s what they did.

For good or for bad, whether they lived to tell the story or died in flames (and ash), they´ve already won.

If I were to describe this ending, I´d call it... Ballsy :)

Bravo!

[Sean Walsh]

Yep. That's the end.

Although, I do remember a couple Angel comics on the stands and flipping through them and whatnot, seeing that they take place after the finale. Apparently,

Gunn survives.

One of his eyes, apparently, did not.

Man, what's up with Whedon supportuing characters losing one of their eyes? ;) :p

[Aggie]

I am so glad they didn´t go for a sugary ending where Fred comes back, marries Wesley, Gunn gets a new girl, Angel and Spike turn into real boys, the Senior Partners gets aired, etc, etc.

I love open ends and this one has that Butch and Sundance quality to it that just leaves you wondering.
Like Angel himself said in a previous episode, they´re not supposed to destroy the Senior Partners, after all they´re the be-all, end-all of all Evilness.
They´re there to be fought, not beat.
And that´s what they did.

For good or for bad, whether they lived to tell the story or died in flames (and ash), they´ve already won.

If I were to describe this ending, I´d call it... Ballsy :)

Bravo!

i think it was kinda whedon's "f-you" to the network...it was truly a kick ass finale...:D

[G. Wayne]

Use your imagination. . . . . . . .

This was the end of the series and it was delibarately and infuriatingly left open ended.

The comics have continued the series showing that many survived but they are not considered canon...

Wha-? I thought the 3 or 4 mini's they've released recently were supposed to be official. None of them have been anything special, but they do all follow in line for the most part.

[DonC]

You mean that´s it?
You sure?
That´s how the series ended?

.........
........
........


I LOVE IT!

Man, talk about finishing on a high note!


WTG! :)


Zeu, my friend, you should have seen the shit storm some Angel fans rained down on the 'net for that ending. I was a member of a Buffy/Angel board at the time and some of them absolutely did not get what Whedon was doing. It was mostly women who wanted to be spoon-fed an ending where Buffy and Angel lived happily ever after. It was almost sad in a way.

[Chiasm]

Wha-? I thought the 3 or 4 mini's they've released recently were supposed to be official. None of them have been anything special, but they do all follow in line for the most part.

I thought I recalled reading somewhere that Joss Whedon had stated that the comics were not canon. He was saying back when his Buffy Season VIII project was still being proposed and indicating how it and only it should be considered definitive. Or so I remember, if anyone knows otherwise feel free to correct me.

[Brian "Vash" Ashby]

Zeu, my friend, you should have seen the shit storm some Angel fans rained down on the 'net for that ending. I was a member of a Buffy/Angel board at the time and some of them absolutely did not get what Whedon was doing. It was mostly women who wanted to be spoon-fed an ending where Buffy and Angel lived happily ever after. It was almost sad in a way.

I dont get the Angel/Buffy stuff. He doesnt even seem to be that hung up over her. He was already shagging the dogchow chick. And he seemed to like Cordelia more than buffy anyway.

Spuffy all the way. Plus regardless of who one would ship, this was a good ending. I would have had the blue hair chick been the one fatally wounded going into the fight over Gunn though, only because it seemed kinda "meh" to have both humans get all jacked up and the supers come off so fresh and so clean clean.

[Deep_Sleeper]

IMO, despite the sadness I felt that my favourite TV show was being cancelled, Angel had an awesome ending. It was very fitting. Very emotional and oh, so good.

My favourite series finale to date.

[marshal99]

I dont get the Angel/Buffy stuff. He doesnt even seem to be that hung up over her. He was already shagging the dogchow chick. And he seemed to like Cordelia more than buffy anyway.

Spuffy all the way. Plus regardless of who one would ship, this was a good ending. I would have had the blue hair chick been the one fatally wounded going into the fight over Gunn though, only because it seemed kinda "meh" to have both humans get all jacked up and the supers come off so fresh and so clean clean.

Buffy is/was always Angel's one true love , but they can never be together without Angel losing his soul so Buffy will always be on the pedestal that Angel can never touch.

[BoosterBronze]

IMO, despite the sadness I felt that my favourite TV show was being cancelled, Angel had an awesome ending. It was very fitting. Very emotional and oh, so good.

My favourite series finale to date.

I agree. Angel didn't get a happy ending. He went out like he lived, fighting a hopeless battle.

[jwd]

I loved the Angel series finale. Probably one of the best ones ever. It worked perfectly for the theme of the show.

The entire show was about him trying to find redemption for all the bad things he'd done. Its not like he could save X number of people and be redeemed. There was no goal line for him. His only chance at redemption is an ongoing/never-ending process of saving lives. The fact he went towards that last battle in the series like that and giving up the possiblity to be human showed he realized that.


jwd

[Athena Bast]

Zeu, my friend, you should have seen the shit storm some Angel fans rained down on the 'net for that ending. I was a member of a Buffy/Angel board at the time and some of them absolutely did not get what Whedon was doing. It was mostly women who wanted to be spoon-fed an ending where Buffy and Angel lived happily ever after. It was almost sad in a way.

I hate females like that. Go read a flipping Harlequin novel if you want stupid tacked on happy endings.

[Blueferret]

Whaaa??? No love for Lorne? Who would've thought he'd turn out to be a total badass in the end. Anyways, the finale of Angel ranks right up there with the best of all time, IMO.

[borateen]

Whaaa??? No love for Lorne? Who would've thought he'd turn out to be a total badass in the end.

Lorne wasn't badass. He was tired. Ever since Angel and company entered his life, he really got nothing but shit. His once peaceful haven/bar was destroyed. He was forced to go back home and had his head cut off. He and his gift were held prisoner in Vegas and used for petty crime. The last season of the show was him pretending, pretending, pretending, and by the end, he was just tired and sick of who he was. Lorne was the one who was actually beaten by Wolfram and Hart. They took away who he was. Even though Wesley died, he died fighting and taking out a major player. For all intents and purposes, he died in the arms of the woman he loved. If I recall correctly, he died with a smile. Hell, even Gunn, after the shit he pulled and the guilt hanging over him, he still wouldn't let W&H beat him down in the end.

This thread has REALLY made me want to rewatch this season. Heck, summer is almost here, so it's about time for me to rewatch all of Buffy and Angel again, anyways. Woo hoo!

[DF2506]

Personally, I HATED the ending. It was a major disappointment to me.

Angel acts out of character (asking Lorne to kill someone), Lorne acts out of character (by actually killing someone. He should have told Angel he had lost it and left and btw what was the point of killing Linsday anyway? ), Wes gets killed (hated that, best character on the show, imo), The 'oh we can't go after Wolfram & Hart, their too big!' thing (then what was the whole freakin' season about! ugh), and of course the NON-ENDING. The episode just stops. No cliffhanger, no ending, it just suddenly STOPS. Ugh. I just hated it.

And season 5 was so awesome up until the final few episodes (especially the final one). I like the addition of Spike to the show, I was sad when Fred died, but I liked how they handled her death and that demon that took over her, I liked most of the episodes in the season, but in the end, I hated the final episode. I wouldn't have been happy with that as a SEASON finale let alone a SERIES finale. And I just can't understand why people actually like it.....

Hey, I'm not saying the show should have had a happy ending. I'm not even saying it had to end. If it had been a better written episode and there had been a cliffhanger, well, I would have liked it a lot better. Joss REALLY should have written the final episode (whoever wrote it did a terrible job). And it should have been the episode where they finally took on Wolfram & Hart. I mean come on! Even if Wolfram & Hart is 'too big' Angel would have gone after them anyway (he's never been shy about talking suicide missions).
That was the point of 'working' for them I think. It was to get on the inside and find a way to destroy them once and for all. Well at the end they should have gone after them and if anyone was going to die, I'd rather it had been Lorne or 'Fred' or Gunn, anyone but Wes.

I was just so unhappy with that episode.

Season 6 of Angel is comic form should be cool (hopefully). I think Joss will be co-writting it with someone. Here's hoping it gives us (or at least me) some resolution to Angel.

DF2506
" I'm looking forward to reading Buffy season 8 quiete a bit too. Haven't read the first issue yet, but it looks cool! "

[Brian "Vash" Ashby]

I always thought a good way to end the show would be for Angel to get something to be able to turn human....some sort of potion or what not...and then decide what to do with it.

Finally he would give it to spike, sort of remedying some of his past mistakes by curing someone he was responsible for making a vampire, so to speak

Himself choosing to stay a vampire to fight the good fight and all that.

[DrewTheXenocide]

Buffy is/was always Angel's one true love , but they can never be together without Angel losing his soul so Buffy will always be on the pedestal that Angel can never touch.

I don't think he can touch Cordelia either considering merely dreaming/hallucinating about having sex with her turned him into Angelus.

[Brian "Vash" Ashby]

I was going to mention that but then didnt


Buffy being his one true love/whatever doesnt pan out. She was just the first chick he dug in like 100 years. Notable, sure. But i wouldnt even say compatible that well.

I much prefer him with someone else.

Personally i always thought he should have hooked up with that cop lady from the first 2 seasons of angel.

[Jared]

Personally i always thought he should have hooked up with that cop lady from the first 2 seasons of angel.

Speaking of Kate, did she die? Last I remember of her, she was drunk-calling (and bad acting) Angel, blaming him for losing her job. I don't remember any resolution to that, but I may have missed an episode.

[GRANT!]

I don't think he can touch Cordelia either considering merely dreaming/hallucinating about having sex with her turned him into Angelus.

It seemed like a combination of things made him happy though. He became closer with his son, patched things up with Wes defeated the Beast and then scored with Codelia. Basically he had a really good day in the dream.

[marshal99]

It seemed like a combination of things made him happy though. He became closer with his son, patched things up with Wes defeated the Beast and then scored with Codelia. Basically he had a really good day in the dream.

Yes , a combination of things , the pure happiness of having a big wonderful family all altogether.

[Brian "Vash" Ashby]

Speaking of Kate, did she die? Last I remember of her, she was drunk-calling (and bad acting) Angel, blaming him for losing her job. I don't remember any resolution to that, but I may have missed an episode.

He saved her

But that was it

She went off to do Law and Order and i guess they had to drop that whole plot thread.

Angel was best for that chunk halfway into season 1 and through halfway of season 2.

Shame she left.

[Blueferret]

Yes , a combination of things , the pure happiness of having a big wonderful family all altogether.

Wasn't there some device used that lowered Angel's inhibitions when he turned into Angelus? Also, wasn't it stated later that he was able to have sex as long as he followed certain guidelines? I always got the impression that he was banging the werewolf chick.

[marshal99]

Not sure , he was fine when he was banging Darla , maybe as long as he's banging supernatural creatures , he's all right ? :p

[Blueferret]

Not sure , he was fine when he was banging Darla , maybe as long as he's banging supernatural creatures , he's all right ? :p

IIRC, Angel says he is able to have sex under certain conditions. I just don't remember them.

[ragnarok_2012]

Wasn't there some device used that lowered Angel's inhibitions when he turned into Angelus?

I'm not sure what you mean, exactly, but Angel did turn into Angelus temporarily in one episode when he was drugged.

A woman wanted to be turned into a vampire, and drugged him in hopes of "loosening him up" for seduction. He felt so great he turned into Angelus until the drug's effects wore off.

My recollection, anyway.

[Chiasm]

As I understood Angel only turned into Angelus under certain conditions:

1. The aforementioned wannabe Vampire episode where a chick drugged Angel into submission allowing Angelus to come forth

and

2. Perfect happiness. Which only appears to happen during sex with a true love or an extrordinary set of circumstances as chronicled in the season IV episode that was an illusion. As to true love, Buff is one for sure. Cordelia probably would have been a second. Nina apparently is not.

[xnef1025]

Angel can have sex and not lose his soul. As others have said, it now takes a huge combination of events to make a perfect day to cause Angel to have perfect happiness and lose his soul.

The character grew a lot over the course of 8 season of television. Back when he first was introduced, his infatuation with Buffy was the only thing driving him. He got out of his funk and tried to be a hero for her and no other reason. He was a much less complex person then. Everything he did was for Buffy so consumating their love was perfect happiness for him.

By the later seasons of Angel, he was a lot more complex. He was fighting for better reasons and it would take a lot more than a good shag to make him perfectly happy. That's why he could sleep with Darla in season 2 and have a sexually active relationship with Gina at the end of season 5. He could probably have sex with Buffy now and as long as he didn't stop an Apocalypse while reconciling with his son and resurrecting his all his dead friends and simultaneously winning the Powerball and Megamillions, I don't think he'd lose his soul.

And I was under the impression that Lorne killed Lindsey on his own. Angel didn't order it. Lorne never told Angel all the visions he had about Lindsey.

[BoosterBronze]

And I was under the impression that Lorne killed Lindsey on his own. Angel didn't order it. Lorne never told Angel all the visions he had about Lindsey.

I think it was pretty clear in the episode, when Lorne, very sadly, told Angel "I don't like this last job. After this I'm done."

Why would Lorne have been sad and disheartened if Angel said "Follow heroic Lindsey around and let him live."

[kalorama]

Angel definitely told Lorne to kill Lindsey. I just saw the repeat of the episode a few weeks ago on cable. They were in Spike's apartment planning strategy and Angel told Lorne he had a job for him. Lorne tried to opt out, saying he wasn't a fighter. Then Angel told Lorne he needed him help Lindsey. Then there's a cut to a different scene with different characters (think it was Lindsey and Eve in bed, but not sure). Then they cut back to Angel and the gang leaving Spike's and saying their goodbyes before the final battle. Lorne tells Angel, "I'll do this last job for you, but then I'm out."

[xnef1025]

Ahhh... ok. I'll have to rewatch the ep again. It's been a while.