Carey: The new Claremont? [Archive] - Page 2 - Comic Book Resources Forums

david r

03-31-2007, 08:15 PM

The Outback thing will never happen again. I don't think it's becuase the writers won't shake up stuff, it's because the status quo needs to be mantained by editorial.

I agree, we'll never see anything innovative like the Outback X-Men again. This is why modern X-Men comics bore me, we're so stuck in a "holding pattern" and nothing really suspenseful happens.

It went from a creator-driven book, to a financially-driven one. Just look at 1990s X-Men and you can see it all over the place. Marvel saw they had a cash cow, and cashed in their chips. I think the stories have suffered ever since.

SUPERECWFAN1

03-31-2007, 08:19 PM

Marv Wolfman is an interesting example. I can see how a writer could just "run out of steam". Claremont even did this around 1986, and the story goes he walked into editor Ann Nocenti's office and stated he wanted off the book. That he had run out of ideas. Ann Nocenti simply told Claremont to go back to his desk and dream up something shocking.

He did, and that was the Mutant Massacre. Notice the X-Men lineup began to radically change after Mutant Massacre? Claremont was breathing new life for himself, and for the fans. So unlike Marv Wolfman & the Teen Titans, Claremont found a way to revitalize his interest, as well as keep the X-Men vital and exciting with new exotic lineups and different locales (Australia.)

What really irks me is finding out he had ideas to do a Brood storyline in Uncanny. Why waste time with this Braddock storyline or Rachel becoming dino-Rachel ? Why not do balls to the wall , go all out and do the Brood storyline of them becoming extinct ?

Thats sad really. I wish someone would have had Claremont dream up something wild and do it instead of what he did for a majority of his run.

david r

03-31-2007, 08:19 PM

I'm liking his Exiles a lot, but NEX does show signs of him not being that interesed in the book. It feels wo wonky, people changing reaction from issue to another, it's like he doesn't bother to remember what he wrote 30 days ago.

I think Claremont has been stung too often. Read his interviews in the 90s, the man was so angry at Marvel at how they treated him after all the success of the X-Men. WHY did he ever come back in the first place? Did he think things would turn out any different?

If I was fired from the very book I made a smash, and relegated to 2nd-tier books, I'd quit and never look back. Claremont needs to just call it a day, NOT because he's run out of ideas (which I feel he has in abundance) but because everything he attempts to do is butchered. And we are left with half-hearted stories because the real locomotive was derailed.

Deus ex Chris

03-31-2007, 08:21 PM

It went from a creator-driven book, to a financially-driven one. Just look at 1990s X-Men and you can see it all over the place. Marvel saw they had a cash cow, and cashed in their chips. I think the stories have suffered ever since.
I'd say it went back to being creator-driven, when Grant Morrison came in and they created a book just for Claremont.

david r

03-31-2007, 08:26 PM

What really irks me is finding out he had ideas to do a Brood storyline in Uncanny. Why waste time with this Braddock storyline or Rachel becoming dino-Rachel ? Why not do balls to the wall , go all out and do the Brood storyline of them becoming extinct ?

I think Claremont had a mega-arc planned for Uncanny X-Men The two core arcs were the Jamie Braddock/Rachel Summers/Psylocke arc, and the other was the Hellfire Club mega-story.

The Hellfire Club was in full-swing, and then suddenly it *disappeared*. Right when we learn Joss Whedon had his OWN HC idea. So Claremont is left with his plans in tatters, and so we get the half-hearted stories like Dino-Rachel and the Mojo arc. I'm not saying Dino-Rachel was forgivable, but what does a writer do when his main story is suddenly nixed, halfway thru?

The Brood space epic was planned for post #475. Claremont was hoping he would stay on the title, and he wanted this Sh'iar/Brood space epic to tie in to his X-Men: The End. So it had to come out AFTER X:TE had been released. All that End of Greys and Rachel Summers "vowing vengeance on the Sh'iar" was build-up to this explosive space story.

Novaya Havoc

03-31-2007, 08:30 PM

I think Claremont has been stung too often. Read his interviews in the 90s, the man was so angry at Marvel at how they treated him after all the success of the X-Men. WHY did he ever come back in the first place? Did he think things would turn out any different?

If I was fired from the very book I made a smash, and relegated to 2nd-tier books, I'd quit and never look back. Claremont needs to just call it a day, NOT because he's run out of ideas (which I feel he has in abundance) but because everything he attempts to do is butchered. And we are left with half-hearted stories because the real locomotive was derailed.

I totally agree with this. Please leave, Mr. Claremont! Marvel does not understand your genious and neither do most comic fans

So I'm glad there's something we can all agree on -- CC lovers and haters alike!

david r

03-31-2007, 08:30 PM

I'd say it went back to being creator-driven, when Grant Morrison came in and they created a book just for Claremont.

I would agree, for a few years, Grant Morrison, Joe Casey and Claremont had more freedom. Especially GM. All of NuMarvel was more open and free during the early days of Joe Quesada and Bill Jemas.

But there was a definite change when Jemas got canned and Morrison left the X-Men. Notice this is right when the leather costumes disappeared? Notice that was when the classic costumes returned? And the books became more "all-ages friendly"? Marvel was tightening the controls again.

david r

03-31-2007, 08:32 PM

I totally agree with this. Please leave, Mr. Claremont! Marvel does not understand your genious and neither do most comic fans

And yet you said you loved him at Comix-Fan. Care to explain?

Deus ex Chris

03-31-2007, 08:32 PM

But there was a definite change when Jemas got canned and Morrison left the X-Men. Notice this is right when the leather costumes disappeared? Notice that was when the classic costumes returned? And the books became more "all-ages friendly"? Marvel was tightening the controls again.

That's true, but even now with all the creative summits and such, I think things are very much creator-driven--just not necessarily in the same way.

SUPERECWFAN1

03-31-2007, 08:36 PM

I think Claremont has been stung too often. Read his interviews in the 90s, the man was so angry at Marvel at how they treated him after all the success of the X-Men. WHY did he ever come back in the first place? Did he think things would turn out any different?

He came back for $$$ pretty much. How mad do you suspect him to be though ? His S7 series at DC failed. Going back to Marvel in 1997/98 was all he had left. It was his best playground and he knew the system of comics had to have changed. He wasn't gonna get an unlimited control run like he did last time on the X-Books.

Lasting 17 years on the X-Books is pretty damn good. But its not gonna happen in this era. Picture NFL Free Agency. Its rare a player will stay a whole career with a team now let alone a decade. Comics is the epitome of Free Agency. In this era if a Geoff Johns comes up and signs with Marvel you better freakin believe he'll get a spot on a main book.

If I was fired from the very book I made a smash, and relegated to 2nd-tier books, I'd quit and never look back. Claremont needs to just call it a day, NOT because he's run out of ideas (which I feel he has in abundance) but because everything he attempts to do is butchered. And we are left with half-hearted stories because the real locomotive was derailed.

Thats how the game is played. If you wrote a book for 17 years and demanded to be THE STAR and hold the main titles from these whippersnappers like a Brubaker or Bendis , from taking your spot then...you should never come back. I'm sorry , but if you've had 17 years and are asked to move to the mid-card of the company and do 2nd teir X-Books now since your not a new star like the guys your company wants what is wrong here ?

Ask Joe Schmo if he wants to write New Excalibur or Kyle & Yost whether they feel like sh-t for doing a 2nd tier X-Book now . Or a Peter David for doing X-Factor . Its a paycheck and your in comics doing what you've always done. You control the final story. What you put on the page comes from you.

Do I think Claremont is happy to have a job and writing something he enjoys ? Yeah...do I think he needs X-Men and Uncanny and that Brubaker and Carey should do nothing and wait til the old guy wants them to take the books when he says so ? Nope...

Novaya Havoc

03-31-2007, 08:36 PM

And yet you said you loved him at Comix-Fan. Care to explain?

I have an identical twin. It's my dark secret. It's very The Prestige.

david r

03-31-2007, 08:38 PM

That's true, but even now with all the creative summits and such, I think things are very much creator driven--just not necessarily in the same way.

But this has happened before. Ask Scott Lobdell about Operation:Zero Tolerance. Ask Fabian Nicieza about his plans for Gambit. Ask Mark Waid about his plans for Onslaught. Ask Joe Casey about his X-Corps plans.

Ask Joe Kelly and Steven Seagle about their bucketload of cool ideas for X-Men. Ask Claremont about Dark Wolverine. about Shadow King epic. About Gambit/Sinister. About Destiny's Diaries. About X*S*E. About Excalibur vol. 3. About the Hellfire Club arc. About Sage/Sunspot. About Wolverine/Ororo. About the Neo story. About Lifeguard/Slipstream. On and on.

Who is to blame for all the innovative ideas being pulled? Is it all just lazy writers who can't be bothered with finishing their stories? Or is there someone else responsible for so much epic stuff dismantled?

Hi-Fi

03-31-2007, 08:39 PM

I'm not saying Dino-Rachel was forgivable, but what does a writer do when his main story is suddenly nixed, halfway thru?

Er... how about NOT doing Dino-Rachel?? Your excuses for his bad writing are getting more and more non-sensical.

Deus ex Chris

03-31-2007, 08:42 PM

Who is to blame for all the innovative ideas being pulled?Is it all just lazy writers who can't be bothered with finishing their stories? Or is there someone else responsible for so much epic stuff dismantled?
And that's where I bow out. Sorry, I'm not playing the blame-the-editors conspiracy theory game. It's not my shtick.

david r

03-31-2007, 08:45 PM

You control the final story. What you put on the page comes from you.

I respectfully disagree, as many writers have said their actual script was changed by *you know who.* The finished product was not what they had written. Claremont, Waid, Lobdell, Nicieza, Kelly, Seagle have all stated this. I admit that the Quesada era has toned down the editorial abuses in this regard.

Do I think Claremont is happy to have a job and writing something he enjoys ? Yeah...do I think he needs X-Men and Uncanny and that Brubaker and Carey should do nothing and wait til the old guy wants them to take the books when he says so ? Nope...

I'm not saying Claremont should hog all the core titles. But he should be granted a core title with some core characters. Like his X-Treme X-Men had or his Uncanny run. He does not have this now. I think they should have left him on Uncanny X-Men until #500, and then saw from there. Brubaker and Carey could have enjoyed writing X-Men and any new X-title Ed Brubaker wanted. Who trumps who here? Brubaker or Claremont?

SUPERECWFAN1

03-31-2007, 08:46 PM

I think Claremont had a mega-arc planned for Uncanny X-Men The two core arcs were the Jamie Braddock/Rachel Summers/Psylocke arc, and the other was the Hellfire Club mega-story.

The Hellfire Club was in full-swing, and then suddenly it *disappeared*. Right when we learn Joss Whedon had his OWN HC idea. So Claremont is left with his plans in tatters, and so we get the half-hearted stories like Dino-Rachel and the Mojo arc. I'm not saying Dino-Rachel was forgivable, but what does a writer do when his main story is suddenly nixed, halfway thru?

The Brood space epic was planned for post #475. Claremont was hoping he would stay on the title, and he wanted this Sh'iar/Brood space epic to tie in to his X-Men: The End. So it had to come out AFTER X:TE had been released. All that End of Greys and Rachel Summers "vowing vengeance on the Sh'iar" was build-up to this explosive space story.

Claremont knew the hammer was dropping down on his run before End of Greys I'm sure . Change things up , do the Brood arc in a new way before #475. Don't even do that Dino-Rachel arc. Do something that people will go...." Damn that was awesome " .

Thats the thing , CC wanted to do slow building up to do these Big Explosive storylines. But now if your gonna drop Plot B or C into a storyline , fans want that plot addressed and taken care of soon.

Faded

03-31-2007, 08:49 PM

I don't know. I think everyone has their share of editorial interference. But somehow, stories still work. Arguably, aside from End of Greys, that really hasn't been the case with Claremont.

Plus, very few of his abandoned plots remotely grabbed me.

I'm really not sure I'd fault editorial, other than nixing stories in the middle of them being published.

I have an identical twin. It's my dark secret. It's very The Prestige.

What a dumb ending. Ugh.

david r

03-31-2007, 08:51 PM

And that's where I bow out. Sorry, I'm not playing the blame-the-editors conspiracy theory game. It's not my shtick.

Yet it's been proven time and again that this "blame-the-editors conspiracy theory game" is a proven fact. And not just on X-Men. But the X-Men books seem to be the most prone to these abuses.

What I ask is why so many fans here cannot, or WILL NOT see, this fact. I can see casual X-fans not caring one way or the other. Is it ALL from the editors, no. Stinkers like Dino-Rachel, X-Men: The End or Mojo crap is the writer's fault. Epic adventures like Shadow King or Hellfire Club or X*S*E mysteriously disappearing with no resolution whatsoever, YEAH I blame the editors for screwing us fans.

Novaya Havoc

03-31-2007, 08:55 PM

Epic adventures like Shadow King or Hellfire Club or X*S*E mysteriously disappearing with no resolution whatsoever, YEAH I blame the editors for screwing us fans.

But I find the Shadow King lame, the Hellfire Club tired, and XSE in WTF? land.

That's why I liked Ultimate. One Von Struckers arc > anything Hellfire in the past decade.

I don't blame the editors for that. Psychics bore. I think they should kill all psychics but like, 2.

SUPERECWFAN1

03-31-2007, 08:56 PM

I respectfully disagree, as many writers have said their actual script was changed by *you know who.* The finished product was not what they had written. Claremont, Waid, Lobdell, Nicieza, Kelly, Seagle have all stated this. I admit that the Quesada era has toned down the editorial abuses in this regard.

Waid has quit in the past on Captain America and on the X-Titles when he and Lobdell couldn't agree on things. Kelly and Seagle have as well. If he's having that much problems , then he can do what these guys have done.

I'm not saying Claremont should hog all the core titles. But he should be granted a core title with some core characters. Like his X-Treme X-Men had or his Uncanny run. He does not have this now. I think they should have left him on Uncanny X-Men until #500, and then saw from there. Brubaker and Carey could have enjoyed writing X-Men and any new X-title Ed Brubaker wanted. Who trumps who here? Brubaker or Claremont?

Its a lot like that old Hall of Fame QB who has taken your team to SuperBowls and did it all. In rides this young kid who just looks explosive and comes into a game and starts to make your team rally n win. The old guy is at the end of a great career . Yeah he has a season or 2 left , but this kids the Future of your franchise. Who do you bench ?

Now picture Ed Brubaker ....he comes in and hammers the return of Bucky out. He's doing such a fine job on Daredevil and Captain America. He's GOLD. The man is a STAR. But a star needs that franchise book. So you give him the keys to the big franchise now. You put the grizzled out veteran on the sidelines awhile and let him be there to mentor the young one who carries The Franchise.

Do I think Marvel made a mistake in 2004 with moving CC from X-Treme X-Men ? Yes....he should have been left that title to keep and use the characters he had. Austen should have moved to Uncanny for awhile longer.

But now you have 3 Franchise X-Books. Creating a 4th would be stretching things a lot. So for now the grizzled out veteran will sit on the bench and do 2nd tier books and be there to mentor the young kids who are the stars of the team.

david r

03-31-2007, 08:58 PM

Claremont knew the hammer was dropping down on his run before End of Greys I'm sure .

I assumed this as well. I even posted this at Comix-Fan and Claremont posted that this was not true. That at the start of 2006, he and Chris Bachalo were blissfully unaware they were to be removed from Uncanny X-Men. Claremont thought he was onboard to #500, and was planning/plotting accordingly.

Change things up , do the Brood arc in a new way before #475. Don't even do that Dino-Rachel arc. Do something that people will go...." Damn that was awesome " .

I wish he had. End of Greys had that shocking, surprise element that vintage Claremont had. And the Fury arc and "Chasing Hellfire" had some memorable moments. But yeah, I wish he'd done more "Damn that was awesome" moments since 2000. I think what CC thinks is "awesome" and what modern X-fans think is "awesome" are two different things now.

Thats the thing , CC wanted to do slow building up to do these Big Explosive storylines. But now if your gonna drop Plot B or C into a storyline , fans want that plot addressed and taken care of soon.

I agree. His slow-simmering subplots don't work anymore. At least not on X-Men. Hell, fans were complaining about this in the late 1980s. But are comic adventures meant to be simplistic and shallow? You're saying the "modern era" does not allow intricate plotting and deep storytelling? Because slow-building subplots can have a sweet payoff, when they happen.

Nachturne

03-31-2007, 09:01 PM

Personally, I blame the readers. Cause if more people read Claremont's books, and his books sold more, he wouldn't be shuffled around so much.

However....if Claremont wrote more toward the current trend of comics, he'd find he had more readers. His time has passed, and all he's doing now is tarnishing his legendary status with mediocrity and worse. He should retire, and soon. He can no longer go out with a bang, but he should do it before he fizzles.

Nachturne

03-31-2007, 09:06 PM

I agree. His slow-simmering subplots don't work anymore. At least not on X-Men. Hell, fans were complaining about this in the late 1980s. But are comic adventures meant to be simplistic and shallow? You're saying the "modern era" does not allow intricate plotting and deep storytelling? Because slow-building subplots can have a sweet payoff, when they happen.

slow simmering =/= deep and intricate. And quicker plots =/= simplistic and shallow. There are some amazing writers doing amazing things that don't take 500 issues. And there are writers who do have simmering subplots that aren't completely confusing and tired (Dazzler's death crap? Are we even going to care by the time it's explained?). The problem is that CC sets up his slow, simmering subplots in a way that demands an answer from the reader. They're not subtle subplots, they're huge inconsistencies we're all left scratching our heads over. Subtletly, though, has never been CC's strong suit. And it's something I really love in my comics

Faded

03-31-2007, 09:25 PM

Omega Alpha

03-31-2007, 09:30 PM

Claremont knew the hammer was dropping down on his run before End of Greys I'm sure . Change things up , do the Brood arc in a new way before #475. Don't even do that Dino-Rachel arc. Do something that people will go...." Damn that was awesome " .

Thats the thing , CC wanted to do slow building up to do these Big Explosive storylines. But now if your gonna drop Plot B or C into a storyline , fans want that plot addressed and taken care of soon.

I agree with you in part, but not completely. It is possible to have long running plots or subplots, like Bendis for example has in his books. However, Bendis does that because he knows he won't be removed from them. CC can't be sure because his sales are not that high anymore; therefore, he shouldn't have dozens of long-running subplots, since he can't be sure whether he'll finish them or not.

I assumed this as well. I even posted this at Comix-Fan and Claremont posted that this was not true. That at the start of 2006, he and Chris Bachalo were blissfully unaware they were to be removed from Uncanny X-Men. Claremont thought he was onboard to #500, and was planning/plotting accordingly.

But the thing is he couldn't know for sure he was onboard until #500; he was already been removed from the books before, his sales were not high and dropping, and most fans were disliking his stories. If i was in his place, i would be surprised if i lasted that long.

MartinRedmond

04-02-2007, 12:18 PM

The pictures and words are both important.

Exactly. And artists produce better art when they're forced to work with a plot too. Usually if not, it's just a series of boring pin-ups with dull one liners for the internet message bored fans.

jarrod

04-02-2007, 12:56 PM

Now picture Ed Brubaker ....he comes in and hammers the return of Bucky out. He's doing such a fine job on Daredevil and Captain America. He's GOLD. The man is a STAR. But a star needs that franchise book. So you give him the keys to the big franchise now. You put the grizzled out veteran on the sidelines awhile and let him be there to mentor the young one who carries The Franchise.
And yet in the end... so far Brubaker's given us an even more retro, more regressive, more out of character, more predictable, more boring run than the "grizzled old veteran".

Honestly, I understand the sentiment, the X-Men are in desparate need of new blood, and I can appreciate what editorial may have been thinking, but the results are sorely disspointing. Uncanny was a far stronger book a year ago than it is now. Stronger plots, stronger characters, stronger aesthetic and a stronger direction and sense of purpose (even despite HOM interference). I'm all for Claremont giving way to younger guys with fresher ideas, but Brubaker's Uncanny is anything but that in practice.

MartinRedmond

04-02-2007, 01:22 PM

What? You aren't excited to see D'Ken brought back to life?

Citizen V

04-02-2007, 06:59 PM

No,some aspects of Uncanny belong only to Claremont.Perhaps im just a old Uncanny reader,and i dont like the fact of anyone being compaired to Claremont.

Mariah

04-02-2007, 07:55 PM

But I find the Shadow King lame, the Hellfire Club tired, and XSE in WTF? land.

That's why I liked Ultimate. One Von Struckers arc > anything Hellfire in the past decade.

I don't blame the editors for that. Psychics bore. I think they should kill all psychics but like, 2.
While I love the Hellfire Club and the characters, nobody has been able to make them as bad arse as they were 20 years ago. Even Claremont. His Hellfire Club arc after he returned to Uncanny blew biiiiiiiiiiiig time. It was very wtf:confused: before the end of it. It's too bad the Von Strucker's aren't here any more. I loved Andrea and Andreas. And while Andreas is over in Thunderbolts, it's not the same.

Hi-Fi

04-02-2007, 08:17 PM

While I love the Hellfire Club and the characters, nobody has been able to make them as bad arse as they were 20 years ago. Even Claremont. His Hellfire Club arc after he returned to Uncanny blew biiiiiiiiiiiig time. It was very wtf:confused: before the end of it.
And now Sunspot is a prisioner of that lame storyarc.

SUPERECWFAN1

04-02-2007, 08:21 PM

And now Sunspot is a prisioner of that lame storyarc.

I'm sure he's complaining since he died in the 198 Mini-series back in 2006. ;)

Mariah

04-02-2007, 08:24 PM

And now Sunspot is a prisioner of that lame storyarc.
But he has sAgE the magnificent to keep him company.

Hi-Fi

04-02-2007, 08:25 PM

I'm sure he's complaining since he died in the 198 Mini-series back in 2006. ;)
No, he didn't. I keep a perfect track of Sunspot. Last time we saw him was in The Day After, where he was perfect safe and powered helping out Cyclops. ;)

Hi-Fi

04-02-2007, 08:26 PM

But he has sAgE the magnificent to keep him company.
That b*tch is running around with Excalibur now, which BEGS the question: why isn't Sunspot running around with some X-Team, let's say Oh I don't know CAREY'S X-MEN???

Pach!

04-02-2007, 08:27 PM

But he has sAgE the magnificent to keep him company.

Maybe Sage can take that time to tell Sunspot (or the writer in a "Deadpool breaks the 4th wall" moment) that he doesn't speak Spanish as a first language, but actually portuguese.

SUPERECWFAN1

04-02-2007, 08:29 PM

No, he didn't. I keep a perfect track of Sunspot. Last time we saw him was in The Day After, where he was perfect safe and powered helping out Cyclops. ;)

Wasn't that him with Magma who were in the volcano togethor ?

Mariah

04-02-2007, 08:29 PM

That b*tch is running around with Excalibur now, which BEGS the question: why isn't Sunspot running around with some X-Team, let's say Oh I don't know CAREY'S X-MEN???
Bombard Mike over on his board! Or get him to come over here. I think I had a small hand in getting Pixie to be a maincast member over in the New X-Men threads.
Maybe Sage can take that time to tell Sunspot (or the writer in a "Deadpool breaks the 4th wall" moment) that he doesn't speak Spanish as a first language, but actually portuguese.
lol, that would be awesome.

Hi-Fi

04-02-2007, 08:30 PM

Maybe Sage can take that time to tell Sunspot (or the writer in a "Deadpool breaks the 4th wall" moment) that he doesn't speak Spanish as a first language, but actually portuguese.
That would be a blessing, but I doubt even Sage with her MAD SKILLZ knows that. :rolleyes:

LOL, I already said to Mike: if you're going to write Sunspot, I can help you with the portuguese!!

xmanson

04-02-2007, 08:30 PM

Exactly. And artists produce better art when they're forced to work with a plot too. Usually if not, it's just a series of boring pin-ups with dull one liners for the internet message bored fans.

Oh, so you dislike Astonishing X-Men too? Yay.

Pach!

04-02-2007, 08:32 PM

Wasn't that him with Magma who were in the volcano togethor ?

I'm pretty sure thats just a random mutant .

Hi-Fi

04-02-2007, 08:32 PM

Wasn't that him with Magma who were in the volcano togethor ?
Nope, that was some random character who first appeared in that issue.;)

Bombard Mike over on his board! Or get him to come over here. I think I had a small hand in getting Pixie to be a maincast member over in the New X-Men threads.
P-LEASE! What do you think I have been doing for the past year?? Mike changed his minf from "don't wanna write him" to "interested in writing him". LOL!:p

SUPERECWFAN1

04-02-2007, 08:33 PM

I'm pretty sure thats just a random mutant .

Damn I thought it was Sunspot.

MartinRedmond

04-03-2007, 05:37 AM

Oh, so you dislike Astonishing X-Men too? Yay.

I dislike Marylin Manson for sure.

The Sword Is Drawn

04-03-2007, 05:55 AM

That b*tch is running around with Excalibur now, which BEGS the question: why isn't Sunspot running around with some X-Team, let's say Oh I don't know CAREY'S X-MEN???

I dunno. Possibly because he's running the Hellfire Club?:confused:

UncannyAsianGirl

04-03-2007, 09:46 AM

Well, the two things Mike said he wanted to do most if he stayed on past #210 were a story revisiting Pandemic, and a Hellfire Club arc, so if he stays, you might get your wish. :D

Dagger

04-03-2007, 09:50 AM

I dunno. Possibly because he's running the Hellfire Club?:confused:
But he could be doing something so much better. And interesting.

The Sword Is Drawn

04-03-2007, 09:58 AM

Well, the two things Mike said he wanted to do most if he stayed on past #210 were a story revisiting Pandemic, and a Hellfire Club arc, so if he stays, you might get your wish. :D

I guess it comes down to who wins out in the end.

Claremont had the Hellfire Club green lighted as the big villain of New Excalibur for the first year. The story actually began in the background of NEX #'s1&2. Then the editors changed their mind, we assume because it would take heat off Whedon's fake Hellfire Arc in Astonishing X-Men. It's still an arc which Claremont wants to tell - and the only real reason two cast members are on the book. I would imagine he'd have first dibs...

UncannyAsianGirl

04-03-2007, 10:09 AM

Well, it's not a matter of dibs really, since if Mike does get a chance to do a Hellfire arc, it won't be for another year and a half, at the very least.

It doesn't stop CC from doing his currently, if he chose to do so. In fact, I don't think anyone else is standing in his way atm. :D And if he can't do it in NEX, he could easily tackle the HFC in Exiles. :)

jarrod

04-03-2007, 10:16 AM

Well, NEX is going to be busy with the Albion/Shadow X-Men storyline, and then the Exiles crossover for the better part of the next year. Maybe the HFC story should be saved as a crossover between books (probably including New X-Men, X-Men and NEX)? I would like to see Emma invloved in some capacity and C&C have been building up Selene recently...

Hi-Fi

04-03-2007, 11:02 AM

I dunno. Possibly because he's running the Hellfire Club?:confused:
And isn't Sage his keeper or something riduculous like that?? Now she's on a team?? And he's stucked in limbo?? How fair.

Well, the two things Mike said he wanted to do most if he stayed on past #210 were a story revisiting Pandemic, and a Hellfire Club arc, so if he stays, you might get your wish. :D
Oh, I'm working on it, don't you worry about it.;)

But he could be doing something so much better. And interesting.
Thank you!

I guess it comes down to who wins out in the end.

Claremont had the Hellfire Club green lighted as the big villain of New Excalibur for the first year. The story actually began in the background of NEX #'s1&2. Then the editors changed their mind, we assume because it would take heat off Whedon's fake Hellfire Arc in Astonishing X-Men. It's still an arc which Claremont wants to tell - and the only real reason two cast members are on the book. I would imagine he'd have first dibs...
Well, if CC dropped this lame Albion/Dark X-Men thing and, you know, actually do the HFC story already, then it woudn't be a question if anyone would get to write the HFC before him.

Dagger

04-03-2007, 11:07 AM

And isn't Sage his keeper or something riduculous like that?? Now she's on a team?? And he's stucked in limbo?? How fair.
Not very, especially since I'd rather read about 'Berto than lame Sage.

Thank you!
You're welcome!

Well, if CC dropped this lame Albion/Dark X-Men thing and, you know, actually do the HFC story already, then it woudn't be a question if anyone would get to write the HFC before him.
Finally! Someone who had the balls to say it! If the Dark X-Men weren't the lamest villians I have ever read about, I don't know what is.

The Sword Is Drawn

04-03-2007, 11:14 AM

And isn't Sage his keeper or something riduculous like that?? Now she's on a team?? And he's stucked in limbo?? How fair.

But that was the point. The only reason she was there was because the intention was to reveal that Sunspot as Lord Imperial was part of new Hellfire Club, returning to it's original point of origin - London. The intention was to carry on from Chasing Hellfire from there. That got canned once the story had already started.

A great shame.

Well, if CC dropped this lame Albion/Dark X-Men thing and, you know, actually do the HFC story already, then it woudn't be a question if anyone would get to write the HFC before him.

To be honest, at this point, Albion is the much bigger story. MUCH bigger. Marvel Universe sized as opposed to X sized. The problem is that this story should have been finished by now. It was intended to have been started in Spring 2006. Once it's done we'll have to wait and see where things go.

Hi-Fi

04-03-2007, 11:17 AM

Not very, especially since I'd rather read about 'Berto than lame Sage.

You know it!;)

To be honest, at this point, Albion is the much bigger story. MUCH bigger. Marvel Universe sized as opposed to X sized. The problem is that this story should have been finished by now. It was intended to have been started in Spring 2006. Once it's done we'll have to wait and see where things go.
Meanwhile Sunspot is stuck in a story that MAY or MAY NOT be told. Marvel should let him free by any writer who wants to use him now. Thing is, CC stranded him in a such a bad place that no one will be interested in bring him back by having to deal with HFC thing first. It's a little annoying seeing one of my favorite characters a hostage like that.

Apocalypse Now Then!

04-03-2007, 12:00 PM

Meanwhile Sunspot is stuck in a story that MAY or MAY NOT be told. Marvel should let him free by any writer who wants to use him now. Thing is, CC stranded him in a such a bad place that no one will be interested in bring him back by having to deal with HFC thing first. It's a little annoying seeing one of my favorite characters a hostage like that.

And yet, when the day comes he'll be a major player in a decent story.

It could be worset, dude. Look what happened to Chamber...:(